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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Kirsty Wark heads the betting for the next QuestionTime host

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Yeap, that’s the one...how about elder scrolls on Alexa....Shakes head...
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Trumpton has binned the child separation policy

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44552852
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    For telling the truth - not going to go down well with the party faithful is it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Yeap, that’s the one...how about elder scrolls on Alexa....Shakes head...
    Pissing fortnite....bloody stupid game.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    Withdrawal bill gone through the House of Lords and now awaiting Royal assent

    So TM survives and takes on the EU

    She just keeps rolling along

    Has Lord Adonis called for The Queen to veto on Twitter, yet?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
    Seems by the fact cyberpunk was a closed demo, cd projekt red are still miles away with that game.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    RCS wrote Anazina is right about one thing: London is significantly smaller than people think, and walking around the central bits is almost always the quickest way to get around. I used to work on St James's Street in the West End, and for anything nearer than St Paul's in the City, I would walk. It would take me 30 minutes, and I'd know my arrival time to the minute, rather than taking a lottery with the tube or a taxi.

    —-

    London is a big city but the truth is that humans can cover ground quickly. As you say, if the journey is under two and a half miles, walk it. You see more, get there reliably on time, keep fit, and can make private calls while walking. Why people use the tube for short trips is beyond me.

    "can make private calls while walking"

    Not these days. The moped gangs will have your phone.

    Care to calculate the odds of that happening?
    Why don't you do the test for PB,you live in london,just start waving that phone about to find out the odds.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,921

    Withdrawal bill gone through the House of Lords and now awaiting Royal assent

    So TM survives and takes on the EU

    She just keeps rolling along

    House of Unelected Has-Beens :lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Anthem, the division 2, etc couldn’t be less excited for.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    RCS wrote Anazina is right about one thing: London is significantly smaller than people think, and walking around the central bits is almost always the quickest way to get around. I used to work on St James's Street in the West End, and for anything nearer than St Paul's in the City, I would walk. It would take me 30 minutes, and I'd know my arrival time to the minute, rather than taking a lottery with the tube or a taxi.

    —-

    London is a big city but the truth is that humans can cover ground quickly. As you say, if the journey is under two and a half miles, walk it. You see more, get there reliably on time, keep fit, and can make private calls while walking. Why people use the tube for short trips is beyond me.

    "can make private calls while walking"

    Not these days. The moped gangs will have your phone.

    Care to calculate the odds of that happening?
    Why don't you do the test for PB,you live in london,just start waving that phone about to find out the odds.
    I can already calculate the odds. Why would I wave a phone about when making a call? I find putting against my ear works a lot better.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    FF43 said:



    BINO isn't available precisely because we will be rule takers. The EU will set the rules not particularly to our advantage. But we need to sign up to the rules if we are going to carry on roughly as at present. No deal is the absence of an arrangement and is therefore unsustainable. Actually a deal is entirely reachable but we need to understand that it is relative to nothing, not relative to the status quo. The negotiating space between better than nothing and as good as what we had is a big one. I am pretty sure we will end up in the middle: much better than nothing but much worse than what we had. That isn't BINO however.

    The first rule of Tory Brexit policy is that the ERG are in the driving seat. The moderates shake their heads, assure everyone that the headbangers will soon be put back in their box and then give way. This is the story of Cameron's leadership, the referendum, May's divisive approach and unachievable red lines, the triggering of article 50 without any preparation, and today once more the Tory moderates have shown themselves to be paper tigers. The ERG knows that the government will never be able to agree an acceptable withdrawal deal, they don't want a deal in any case. All they have to do is ensure that the chaos is prolonged until the date of withdrawal and they will get their wish. The country will go over the cliff. This must now be a very strong possibility.
    I think that a deal will be made.

    I think that it will be on worse terms than we have at the moment but "enlightened" Brexit supporters do not understand or care. In terms of paying for the deal - remember the £50 Billion quantitative easing announced by the Bank of England after the June 2016 vote? That is what will pay the price of the deal - funny money! So in one sense we will not be really paying anything at all as the Government bonds that Quantitative Easing bought are waiting to be used.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree, not really. You said you quite like FOM (fair enough). You then added that you paid little attention to the Leave campaign, and were away for the last week. Are you honestly claiming that you managed to avoid coverage of the Leave campaign - a global news story - to such an degree that in all truth you are not able to form an opinion on its content?

    You misrepresent what I said. Again. I said that I did not pay much attention to what Leave was saying on immigration as this - FoM - was not an issue for me. And yes I was away for the last week. So no I did not follow the news. Nor did I say that I had formed no opinion. I said that I had written my opinion in numerous thread headers. This one, for instance - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/.

    I really have nothing further to add. Hope you enjoy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Pour que l'orage s'annonce.

    Anyone else get the feeling that everyone is just going through the motions at the moment until the storm hits later in the year. I had previously thought that TM could pull off Brexit but there is only so much under performance possible. Events will start to overtake her and I cant see her lasting the year anymore.

    The storm hitting is an important step in resolving the Brexit contradictions. Which necessarily will be resolved as nothing exists in a vacuum. As long as things coast along the contradictions can be denied, as demonstrated by today's vote in the Commons. I expect we will end up with a lot less out of the EU relationship, at a similar monetary cost and a higher cost in jobs, prosperity and opportunities. At the same time we will lose a big say over what happens to us. It's a dumb deal. I hate to speak for Leavers, but I suspect they will be OK with it as we will be out of the hated EU, while Remainers will be relieved it's not worse.

    Mediocrity rules. Theresa May should be well placed.
    A BINO frankly would probably command a majority in the country, if most remainers would be happy with the INO part and enough Leavers were satisfied with the B part. Obviously neither of those will be true completely, and for all the talk of things being soft it doesn't seem like if there is a deal (I still put that as less likely than no deal, personally) it will be INO as it could be.
    If there is still FOM it won’t....
    There's FOM, and there's FOM.

    I suspect that you could have a situation like US-Canada, where for a Canadian to work in the US, they need to find an employer who's willing to go on-line, register as an employer who hires Canadians, fill out an on-line form, and the Canadian needs to be criminal record free. It's essentially FoM, except that for low skilled/wage jobs, especially ones that pay by the hour and where the employee might not be around for long, most businesses can't be bothered. But, if you're hiring a software developer and paying $100k, it's hoop that people will jump through.

    That would probably satisfy a substantial minority, and if it didn't restrict immigration enough, you could limit it to certain sectors, or have minimum salary or qualifications requirements.
    And, it is worth adding, for low skilled/low wage work, the rates of pay and working conditions are pretty similar. So why would you bother? Unlike, say, Romania and London.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
    Seems by the fact cyberpunk was a closed demo, cd projekt red are still miles away with that game.
    It's also in first person so I'm unlikely to buy it. Almost no action games are good in first person, only shooters work well which leads me to one of two conclusions, it is either not going to work well as an action game or it will be too much shootbang. Either one leaves me cold. Hopefully they will update it with a third person mode after release.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
    Seems by the fact cyberpunk was a closed demo, cd projekt red are still miles away with that game.
    It's also in first person so I'm unlikely to buy it. Almost no action games are good in first person, only shooters work well which leads me to one of two conclusions, it is either not going to work well as an action game or it will be too much shootbang. Either one leaves me cold. Hopefully they will update it with a third person mode after release.
    From those in the demo, they suggested there is specific mechanics that can only work if it is first person. Be a shame, as the Witcher 3 is just a fantastic game.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    Scott_P said:
    As I've been saying for some time, Labour needs to attack the Conservatives for their shocking defence cuts.
    If May goes down that road, I’m totally done with her.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree, not really. You said you quite like FOM (fair enough). You then added that you paid little attention to the Leave campaign, and were away for the last week. Are you honestly claiming that you managed to avoid coverage of the Leave campaign - a global news story - to such an degree that in all truth you are not able to form an opinion on its content?

    You misrepresent what I said. Again. I said that I did not pay much attention to what Leave was saying on immigration as this - FoM - was not an issue for me. And yes I was away for the last week. So no I did not follow the news. Nor did I say that I had formed no opinion. I said that I had written my opinion in numerous thread headers. This one, for instance - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/.

    I really have nothing further to add. Hope you enjoy.
    I merely asked you whether you consider the Leave campaign to have been xenophobic. You haven’t answered me!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
    Seems by the fact cyberpunk was a closed demo, cd projekt red are still miles away with that game.
    It's also in first person so I'm unlikely to buy it. Almost no action games are good in first person, only shooters work well which leads me to one of two conclusions, it is either not going to work well as an action game or it will be too much shootbang. Either one leaves me cold. Hopefully they will update it with a third person mode after release.
    From those in the demo, they suggested there is specific mechanics that can only work if it is first person. Be a shame, as the Witcher 3 is just a fantastic game.
    Yeah, it's a skip for me if that's true. I'll just have to play the Witcher again!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    edited June 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Don't, with respect, be silly. The facts as we know them so far are equally consistent with an institutionalised practice of not pointlessly prolonging lives at the expense of unnecessary suffering. Evidence first, verdict afterwards is an absolutely cracking arrangement.
    There has been a lengthy investigation which has come to conclusions based on the facts it has found. So exactly what you claim to want. Though you appear not to like the conclusions the investigators have reached.
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It has been abundantly clear for some time that we aren't willing to pay more for the armed forces, not to the significant degree many things would require. In fairness is there much money left once we pay for all the white elephant schemes?
    Apparently all our spare money is going on the NHS. In a week when there has been a report about one trust ending prematurely the lives of between 450 and 600 people.
    It depends what you mean by "prematurely".
    If someone is given doses of painkillers for no good medical reason and die as a result, that is a premature death, to my mind.

    Do you have some other definition?
    The good medical reason for giving doses of painkillers is easily detected from an analysis of the word "painkiller" if you think about it. Or perhaps you have first hand evidence that none of the decedents was suffering pain?
    That is not what the investigation report has said. According to the BBC report, following a lengthy investigation, the report which looked at the facts said that there was no medical justification for either the drugs given or the levels of doses given.

    Perhaps you know different?



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
    Seems by the fact cyberpunk was a closed demo, cd projekt red are still miles away with that game.
    It's also in first person so I'm unlikely to buy it. Almost no action games are good in first person, only shooters work well which leads me to one of two conclusions, it is either not going to work well as an action game or it will be too much shootbang. Either one leaves me cold. Hopefully they will update it with a third person mode after release.
    From those in the demo, they suggested there is specific mechanics that can only work if it is first person. Be a shame, as the Witcher 3 is just a fantastic game.
    Yeah, it's a skip for me if that's true. I'll just have to play the Witcher again!
    Oh, what horror! (Ok, the first was a bit of a drag).

    Pleasant night all.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,921
    Anazina said:

    RCS wrote Anazina is right about one thing: London is significantly smaller than people think, and walking around the central bits is almost always the quickest way to get around. I used to work on St James's Street in the West End, and for anything nearer than St Paul's in the City, I would walk. It would take me 30 minutes, and I'd know my arrival time to the minute, rather than taking a lottery with the tube or a taxi.

    —-

    London is a big city but the truth is that humans can cover ground quickly. As you say, if the journey is under two and a half miles, walk it. You see more, get there reliably on time, keep fit, and can make private calls while walking. Why people use the tube for short trips is beyond me.

    The Waterloo & City line is only one and a half miles long :)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree, not really. You said you quite like FOM (fair enough). You then added that you paid little attention to the Leave campaign, and were away for the last week. Are you honestly claiming that you managed to avoid coverage of the Leave campaign - a global news story - to such an degree that in all truth you are not able to form an opinion on its content?

    You misrepresent what I said. Again. I said that I did not pay much attention to what Leave was saying on immigration as this - FoM - was not an issue for me. And yes I was away for the last week. So no I did not follow the news. Nor did I say that I had formed no opinion. I said that I had written my opinion in numerous thread headers. This one, for instance - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/.

    I really have nothing further to add. Hope you enjoy.
    I merely asked you whether you consider the Leave campaign to have been xenophobic. You haven’t answered me!
    What's this - From the remain side.

    Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12145781/David-Cameron-warns-of-migrant-camps-in-southern-England-if-Brexit-vote.html
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone picked up Pillars of Eternity 2? The first was a game I remember enjoying quite a bit - the Baldur's Gate style of game is one I like, for all I never played BG back in the day - but I've not since had the interest to replay it. Conversely I just replayed Fallout 3 and all expansions, and am working through New Vegas again. They hold up pretty well.

    Fallout 76 doesn’t excite me.
    Online multiplayer game? I immediately switch off, for all I probably miss some good ones.
    Not really. There are very few that are actually good games, most are built to be addictive cash generators for publishers, Fortnite and PUBG are just the latest incarnation of that model.
    Seems by the fact cyberpunk was a closed demo, cd projekt red are still miles away with that game.
    It's also in first person so I'm unlikely to buy it. Almost no action games are good in first person, only shooters work well which leads me to one of two conclusions, it is either not going to work well as an action game or it will be too much shootbang. Either one leaves me cold. Hopefully they will update it with a third person mode after release.
    From those in the demo, they suggested there is specific mechanics that can only work if it is first person. Be a shame, as the Witcher 3 is just a fantastic game.
    Yeah, it's a skip for me if that's true. I'll just have to play the Witcher again!
    Oh, what horror! (Ok, the first was a bit of a drag).

    Pleasant night all.
    It's a shame they wrapped up Geralt's story in Blood and Wine (he invariably ends up with Yen in my play throughs). CDPR really wasted the Geralt/Yen relationship in TW3. It should have been the basis for the next game, make them both playable and give us co-op. Now it's all wrapped up with a neat little bow. :/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    On the plus side, hitman season 2 is out in November and it isn’t episodic this time.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree, not really. You said you quite like FOM (fair enough). You then added that you paid little attention to the Leave campaign, and were away for the last week. Are you honestly claiming that you managed to avoid coverage of the Leave campaign - a global news story - to such an degree that in all truth you are not able to form an opinion on its content?

    You misrepresent what I said. Again. I said that I did not pay much attention to what Leave was saying on immigration as this - FoM - was not an issue for me. And yes I was away for the last week. So no I did not follow the news. Nor did I say that I had formed no opinion. I said that I had written my opinion in numerous thread headers. This one, for instance - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/.

    I really have nothing further to add. Hope you enjoy.
    I merely asked you whether you consider the Leave campaign to have been xenophobic. You haven’t answered me!
    Not sure why you’ve appointed yourself Inquisitor-General. I have given you my answer in my words. Read what I wrote.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Anazina said:

    RCS wrote Anazina is right about one thing: London is significantly smaller than people think, and walking around the central bits is almost always the quickest way to get around. I used to work on St James's Street in the West End, and for anything nearer than St Paul's in the City, I would walk. It would take me 30 minutes, and I'd know my arrival time to the minute, rather than taking a lottery with the tube or a taxi.

    —-

    London is a big city but the truth is that humans can cover ground quickly. As you say, if the journey is under two and a half miles, walk it. You see more, get there reliably on time, keep fit, and can make private calls while walking. Why people use the tube for short trips is beyond me.

    The Waterloo & City line is only one and a half miles long :)
    You only need that if you live in the dirty south.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited June 2018

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree, not really. You said you quite like FOM (fair enough). You then added that you paid little attention to the Leave campaign, and were away for the last week. Are you honestly claiming that you managed to avoid coverage of the Leave campaign - a global news story - to such an degree that in all truth you are not able to form an opinion on its content?

    You misrepresent what I said. Again. I said that I did not pay much attention to what Leave was saying on immigration as this - FoM - was not an issue for me. And yes I was away for the last week. So no I did not follow the news. Nor did I say that I had formed no opinion. I said that I had written my opinion in numerous thread headers. This one, for instance - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/.

    I really have nothing further to add. Hope you enjoy.
    I merely asked you whether you consider the Leave campaign to have been xenophobic. You haven’t answered me!
    What's this - From the remain side.

    Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12145781/David-Cameron-warns-of-migrant-camps-in-southern-England-if-Brexit-vote.html
    Are you absolutely sure the Le Touquet treaty will be maintained post-Brexit?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    I take it back, I've clearly been unfair in my occasional snide comment about lawyers double-charging for their time:

    According to records held by the ICIJ, one Mossack Fonseca employee was continuing to sign documents and attend the board meetings of several thousand offshore companies, despite having died in 2005.

    That's real dedication for you. I wonder what the charge-out rate for stiffs was?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/panama-papers-firm-mossack-fonseca-did-not-know-who-75-of-its-clients-were

  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Don't, with respect, be silly. The facts as we know them so far are equally consistent with an institutionalised practice of not pointlessly prolonging lives at the expense of unnecessary suffering. Evidence first, verdict afterwards is an absolutely cracking arrangement.
    There has been a lengthy investigation which has come to conclusions based on the facts it has found. So exactly what you claim to want. Though you appear not to like the conclusions the investigators have reached.
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It has been abundantly clear for some time that we aren't willing to pay more for the armed forces, not to the significant degree many things would require. In fairness is there much money left once we pay for all the white elephant schemes?
    Apparently all our spare money is going on the NHS. In a week when there has been a report about one trust ending prematurely the lives of between 450 and 600 people.
    It depends what you mean by "prematurely".
    If someone is given doses of painkillers for no good medical reason and die as a result, that is a premature death, to my mind.

    Do you have some other definition?
    The good medical reason for giving doses of painkillers is easily detected from an analysis of the word "painkiller" if you think about it. Or perhaps you have first hand evidence that none of the decedents was suffering pain?
    That is not what the investigation report has said. According to the BBC report, following a lengthy investigation, the report which looked at the facts said that there was no medical justification for either the drugs given or the levels of doses given.

    Perhaps you know different?



    Well I have taken the trouble to read the report, for starters, and it isn't an impressive piece of work (and what on earth is a retired bishop involved in its production for?) So yes, I do know, at the very least, more about it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree, not really. You said you quite like FOM (fair enough). You then added that you paid little attention to the Leave campaign, and were away for the last week. Are you honestly claiming that you managed to avoid coverage of the Leave campaign - a global news story - to such an degree that in all truth you are not able to form an opinion on its content?

    You misrepresent what I said. Again. I said that I did not pay much attention to what Leave was saying on immigration as this - FoM - was not an issue for me. And yes I was away for the last week. So no I did not follow the news. Nor did I say that I had formed no opinion. I said that I had written my opinion in numerous thread headers. This one, for instance - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/.

    I really have nothing further to add. Hope you enjoy.
    I merely asked you whether you consider the Leave campaign to have been xenophobic. You haven’t answered me!
    What's this - From the remain side.

    Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12145781/David-Cameron-warns-of-migrant-camps-in-southern-England-if-Brexit-vote.html
    Is that because they'll be fleeing the EU?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    That charge already applied to non-EU nationals. We're treating them as a third country. Javid is clearly angling for Theresa's job, and with policies like these he'll probably get it. Also, my Swiss residency cost a lot, lot more than £65. Is Switzerland a third world country as well, Rog?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2018
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    Terrible, isn't it?

    In that third-word country in which you've chosen to live, the charges are 55 € for the status of étudiant, 70€ for salarié and 340 € for visiteur or conjoint de français.

    Presumably that's Theresa May's fault, or maybe Maggie's.

    https://ielanguages.com/cds.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    On the plus side, hitman season 2 is out in November and it isn’t episodic this time.

    The first season was great, and I must admit I *liked* the episodic format. It meant that I played Paris, Sapienza or Marrakesh far more than I would have done if they had been normal levels in a game.

    I think I must have completed Paris a dozen ways :)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    Terrible, isn't it?

    In that third-word country in which you've chosen to live, the charges are 55 € for the status of étudiant, 70€ for salarié and 340 € for visiteur or conjoint de français.

    Presumably that's Theresa May's fault, or maybe Maggie's.

    https://ielanguages.com/cds.html
    Is Roger an illegal immigrant in France ? Deport him !
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    One off or annual?
  • LordOfReasonLordOfReason Posts: 457

    Withdrawal bill gone through the House of Lords and now awaiting Royal assent

    So TM survives and takes on the EU

    She just keeps rolling along

    Has Lord Adonis called for The Queen to veto on Twitter, yet?
    Ha ha ha ha ha some victory! Everyone keeping her in place for now for their own self interest. Remainers won’t bring her down as they will get a brexiteer leader. The EU keeping her in the job as, and Boris was right on this, they will get a worse deal against a belligerent brexiteer PM. The Brexiteers will remove her at some point next 12 months, but need the smoking gun of her betrayal of them and the country before they do the deed. Of course there won’t be a GE, of course there will be a brexiteer PM, probably Gove.

    It was a meaningless vote today. If there isn’t the promised deal with EU, we either remain in due to extension or crash out, in either scenario the current administration cannot survive that failure. Mogg was very cheeky today, truth is Brexiteers are the ones rolling along to both No. 10 and their kind of Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited June 2018
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    Is it only third world countries which do that? I don't think it is.

    Also third world is awfully un PC of you.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    One off or annual?
    Once every 5 years if it's like Switzerland.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    rcs1000 said:

    On the plus side, hitman season 2 is out in November and it isn’t episodic this time.

    The first season was great, and I must admit I *liked* the episodic format. It meant that I played Paris, Sapienza or Marrakesh far more than I would have done if they had been normal levels in a game.

    I think I must have completed Paris a dozen ways :)
    I think they are still going to do the elusive targets, which is another good reason to replay levels.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I see the media is running another witchhunt before a trial has been conducted. They never seem to learn.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    Is it only third world countries which do that? I don't think it is.

    Also third world is awfully un PC of you.
    It's only bad or racist when the oiks and plebs use it, when the virtuous left use it, it's completely acceptable don't you know.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2018
    Leaving aside the prejudice against him by the usual suspects, Phil Hammond's speech tomorrow looks as though it has an interesting threat contained within his normal low-key wording:

    Philip Hammond will use his keynote Mansion House to the City’s elite on Thursday to say that the government intends to strike deals outside of the single market that will make the UK a gateway to financial markets.

    The chancellor will also call on the EU to negotiate a wide-ranging post-Brexit financial services deal that would provide access to EU markets for UK firms and allow EU governments and companies to borrow money cheaply in London.


    That's particularly interesting because our EU friends do seem to want to have their cake and eat it - they don't want to offer the City full access to their own market post-Brexit, but at the same time they are terrified of an offshore financial centre outside their remit, and they want to continue to benefit from capital-raising in the City as now. Well, they can't have it both ways, can they? It's time for them to decide which they want.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/chancellor-to-promise-a-series-of-post-brexit-financial-partnerships
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Until you have watched terminal cancer patients beg for their next dose of morphine and listen to them being told they must wait another 45 minutes or an hour sometimes over several days until the end mercifully comes you wouldn't know how insensitive your post sounds. I watched it twice in the 90's and I've never seen anything so heart wrenching. I think the treatment of pain has improved a little now but not that much.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    That's particularly interesting because our EU friends do seem to want to have their cake and eat it - they don't want to offer the City full access to their own market post-Brexit, but at the same time they are terrified of an offshore financial centre outside their remit, and they want to continue to benefit from capital-raising in the City as now. Well, they can't have it both ways, can they? It's time for them to decide which they want.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/chancellor-to-promise-a-series-of-post-brexit-financial-partnerships

    Hollow rhetoric from Phil that will have no more impact than his threats to change the UK economic model.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Leaving aside the prejudice against him by the usual suspects, Phil Hammond's speech tomorrow looks as though it has an interesting threat contained within his normal low-key wording:

    Philip Hammond will use his keynote Mansion House to the City’s elite on Thursday to say that the government intends to strike deals outside of the single market that will make the UK a gateway to financial markets.

    The chancellor will also call on the EU to negotiate a wide-ranging post-Brexit financial services deal that would provide access to EU markets for UK firms and allow EU governments and companies to borrow money cheaply in London.


    That's particularly interesting because our EU friends do seem to want to have their cake and eat it - they don't want to offer the City full access to their own market post-Brexit, but at the same time they are terrified of an offshore financial centre outside their remit, and they want to continue to benefit from capital-raising in the City as now. Well, they can't have it both ways, can they? It's time for them to decide which they want.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/chancellor-to-promise-a-series-of-post-brexit-financial-partnerships

    The constant mantra from EU negotiators is that the UK should not be surprised that they are being treated as a "third country". The reality seems to be that this is just spin - the UK is not being treated as a third country because if they were the negotiations would be about seeking out mutually beneficial arrangements wherever possible, not prioritising the UK getting worse arrangements that at present and "no better than other third party countries", regardless of the associated loss to EU member countries.

    Until the UK has left, and genuinely is a 'third country" the EU will not start to properly treat us as such.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    alex. said:

    Leaving aside the prejudice against him by the usual suspects, Phil Hammond's speech tomorrow looks as though it has an interesting threat contained within his normal low-key wording:

    Philip Hammond will use his keynote Mansion House to the City’s elite on Thursday to say that the government intends to strike deals outside of the single market that will make the UK a gateway to financial markets.

    The chancellor will also call on the EU to negotiate a wide-ranging post-Brexit financial services deal that would provide access to EU markets for UK firms and allow EU governments and companies to borrow money cheaply in London.


    That's particularly interesting because our EU friends do seem to want to have their cake and eat it - they don't want to offer the City full access to their own market post-Brexit, but at the same time they are terrified of an offshore financial centre outside their remit, and they want to continue to benefit from capital-raising in the City as now. Well, they can't have it both ways, can they? It's time for them to decide which they want.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/chancellor-to-promise-a-series-of-post-brexit-financial-partnerships

    The constant mantra from EU negotiators is that the UK should not be surprised that they are being treated as a "third country". The reality seems to be that this is just spin - the UK is not being treated as a third country because if they were the negotiations would be about seeking out mutually beneficial arrangements wherever possible, not prioritising the UK getting worse arrangements that at present and "no better than other third party countries", regardless of the associated loss to EU member countries.

    Until the UK has left, and genuinely is a 'third country" the EU will not start to properly treat us as such.
    Which is why we shouldn't worry too much about a more distant deal. In 10 years time we can work on reducing more trade barriers without the "no cherry picking" worry.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Elliot said:

    alex. said:

    Leaving aside the prejudice against him by the usual suspects, Phil Hammond's speech tomorrow looks as though it has an interesting threat contained within his normal low-key wording:

    Philip Hammond will use his keynote Mansion House to the City’s elite on Thursday to say that the government intends to strike deals outside of the single market that will make the UK a gateway to financial markets.

    The chancellor will also call on the EU to negotiate a wide-ranging post-Brexit financial services deal that would provide access to EU markets for UK firms and allow EU governments and companies to borrow money cheaply in London.


    That's particularly interesting because our EU friends do seem to want to have their cake and eat it - they don't want to offer the City full access to their own market post-Brexit, but at the same time they are terrified of an offshore financial centre outside their remit, and they want to continue to benefit from capital-raising in the City as now. Well, they can't have it both ways, can they? It's time for them to decide which they want.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/chancellor-to-promise-a-series-of-post-brexit-financial-partnerships

    The constant mantra from EU negotiators is that the UK should not be surprised that they are being treated as a "third country". The reality seems to be that this is just spin - the UK is not being treated as a third country because if they were the negotiations would be about seeking out mutually beneficial arrangements wherever possible, not prioritising the UK getting worse arrangements that at present and "no better than other third party countries", regardless of the associated loss to EU member countries.

    Until the UK has left, and genuinely is a 'third country" the EU will not start to properly treat us as such.
    Which is why we shouldn't worry too much about a more distant deal. In 10 years time we can work on reducing more trade barriers without the "no cherry picking" worry.
    Ah yes, our next 10 years are irrelevant.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/994887718130864128
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    TGOHF said:


    Is Roger an illegal immigrant in France ? Deport him !

    Bloody furriners!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Until you have watched terminal cancer patients beg for their next dose of morphine and listen to them being told they must wait another 45 minutes or an hour sometimes over several days until the end mercifully comes you wouldn't know how insensitive your post sounds. I watched it twice in the 90's and I've never seen anything so heart wrenching. I think the treatment of pain has improved a little now but not that much.
    There is a difference between relief of a terminal illness and shortening the life of someone after say a hip operation as seemed to be an example of what occurred at Gosport
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Don't, with respect, be silly. The facts as we know them so far are equally consistent with an institutionalised practice of not pointlessly prolonging lives at the expense of unnecessary suffering. Evidence first, verdict afterwards is an absolutely cracking arrangement.
    There has been a lengthy investigation which has come to conclusions based on the facts it has found. So exactly what you claim to want. Though you appear not to like the conclusions the investigators have reached.
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It has been abundantly clear for some time that we aren't willing to pay more for the armed forces, not to the significant degree many things would require. In fairness is there much money left once we pay for all the white elephant schemes?
    Apparently all our spare money is going on the NHS. In a week when there has been a report about one trust ending prematurely the lives of between 450 and 600 people.
    It depends what you mean by "prematurely".
    If someone is given doses of painkillers for no good medical reason and die as a result, that is a premature death, to my mind.

    Do you have some other definition?
    The good medical reason for giving doses of painkillers is easily detected from an analysis of the word "painkiller" if you think about it. Or perhaps you have first hand evidence that none of the decedents was suffering pain?
    That is not what the investigation report has said. According to the BBC report, following a lengthy investigation, the report which looked at the facts said that there was no medical justification for either the drugs given or the levels of doses given.

    Perhaps you know different?



    Well I have taken the trouble to read the report, for starters, and it isn't an impressive piece of work (and what on earth is a retired bishop involved in its production for?) So yes, I do know, at the very least, more about it.
    You have read all 300 pages of a report only issued today. Amazing. Well done, if so. Do you perhaps have a personal interest in the case? Do you have some medical qualification? Or investigative experience?

    The retired bishop is the one who led the Hillsborough inquiry, the one which finally found the truth. Unlike the previous professional investigators. So he is perhaps rather more experienced than you seem to think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    After the USA and China (and if you wish the EU) post Brexit UK will arguably be the 4th power when you combine economic power (we are G7 and G20 members) with foreign policy power (we will still be a UN P5 Security Council power)
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    One off or annual?
    One off I presume as its a registration fee.

    Still if you can't find £65 to fund the administration costs of getting permanent entitlement to residency here - and in terms of family reunification rights even more generous rights than UK citizens - you clearly aren't much of a net contributor and aren't really that committed.

    Will people be allowed to net if off against their tax credits and housing benefit payments where applicable - not that any EU migrants are net welfare recipients of course!

  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Until you have watched terminal cancer patients beg for their next dose of morphine and listen to them being told they must wait another 45 minutes or an hour sometimes over several days until the end mercifully comes you wouldn't know how insensitive your post sounds. I watched it twice in the 90's and I've never seen anything so heart wrenching. I think the treatment of pain has improved a little now but not that much.
    My father was on morphine in his last few months. He was completely bedridden and had no life at all. If morphine hastened the end of his misery then I would have been grateful.

    Frankly we treat dogs and horses with more dignity than our terminally ill or dying elderly.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    3m x £65 = £195m. One more more F-35 paid for! Just in case they try and get shirty.
    Already started behaving like a third world country where non nationals are charged various fees for being...well non nationals. Let's get used t it. The days of being a big player are well and trully behind us.
    After the USA and China (and if you wish the EU) post Brexit UK will arguably be the 4th power when you combine economic power (we are G7 and G20 members) with foreign policy power (we will still be a UN P5 Security Council power)
    4th power is a bit optimistic, I cant think of one effective use of the UN P5 membership veto by the UK in the last 5 years that has served UK national interest, the P5 is overstated.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Until you have watched terminal cancer patients beg for their next dose of morphine and listen to them being told they must wait another 45 minutes or an hour sometimes over several days until the end mercifully comes you wouldn't know how insensitive your post sounds. I watched it twice in the 90's and I've never seen anything so heart wrenching. I think the treatment of pain has improved a little now but not that much.
    Roger: I watched my father die of cancer when I was 20 while he was being treated with the Brompton Cocktail. This was in 1978/1979. I know exactly what this is like. Exactly. It remains the most painful experience of my life.

    Don’t you dare ever suggest again that I am not sensitive to what it is like to be in pain and to be dying.

    In these cases, the evidence seems to be that patients were being given opioids when there was no medical need for them. And that some patients were begging their relatives to stop this happening. This is quite different from denying relief to a patient in pain.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Funny you should say that, given that I moved from London and bought a house in the West Midlands in Q207. Timing is everything.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    From BBC News: “ there was an institutionalised practice of shortening lives”.

    An institutionalised practice of killing, in other words.

    Shocking. Really shocking.

    Mark Easton is giving the NHS both barrels on its culture of placing its reputation above the interests of its patients and not taking whistleblowers seriously:

    “A long-standing and dangerous weakness”.

    Until you have watched terminal cancer patients beg for their next dose of morphine and listen to them being told they must wait another 45 minutes or an hour sometimes over several days until the end mercifully comes you wouldn't know how insensitive your post sounds. I watched it twice in the 90's and I've never seen anything so heart wrenching. I think the treatment of pain has improved a little now but not that much.
    Roger: I watched my father die of cancer when I was 20 while he was being treated with the Brompton Cocktail. This was in 1978/1979. I know exactly what this is like. Exactly. It remains the most painful experience of my life.

    Don’t you dare ever suggest again that I am not sensitive to what it is like to be in pain and to be dying.

    In these cases, the evidence seems to be that patients were being given opioids when there was no medical need for them. And that some patients were begging their relatives to stop this happening. This is quite different from denying relief to a patient in pain.
    Well we have both had exactly the same experience. Me with my father and father-in-law. The news brought back some very harrowing times. I must have misinterpreted your post and the news story itself because on this rare occasion what I perceived as their ignorance made me very angry indeed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited June 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Indeed, most of the complaints about young people not getting on the housing ladder are really London and Home Counties focused (though even the latter is still cheaper than the former and many move from the capital there when they want to start a family).

    A successful plumber married to a primary school teacher say in the North East of England where the average house price is 130 000 pounds could quite easily afford to buy a new semi for his family whereas it would be almost impossible for that couple to do so in London where the average house price is 482 000 pounds bar maybe the outer limits of suburbia.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/uk-house-price-growth-slows-london-north-east-hardest-hit
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Indeed, most of the complaints about young people not getting on the housing ladder are really London and Home Counties focused (though even the latter is still cheaper than the former and many move from the capital there when they want to start a family).

    A successful plumber married to a primary school teacher say in the North East of England could quite easily afford to buy a new semi for his family whereas it would be almost impossible for that couple to do so in London bar maybe the outer limits of suburbia.
    I think that's right: if I were leaving university now, I think I'd probably move to Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham - places where you can have a very good standard of living, and own a home in your 20s, on a graduate salary.

    London and the South East are the anomaly.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Indeed, most of the complaints about young people not getting on the housing ladder are really London and Home Counties focused (though even the latter is still cheaper than the former and many move from the capital there when they want to start a family).

    A successful plumber married to a primary school teacher say in the North East of England where the average house price is 130 000 pounds could quite easily afford to buy a new semi for his family whereas it would be almost impossible for that couple to do so in London where the average house price is 482 000 pounds bar maybe the outer limits of suburbia.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/uk-house-price-growth-slows-london-north-east-hardest-hit
    The north east is relatively cheap - average prices only about 4 times the mational average salary - but then wages are lower too. House prices in the south west are nearly double the north east - and many other English regions are 50 per cent higher than NE.

    And what happens when they have a kid and go down to one wage or have to face childcare costs.

    It's wider than just the Home Counties if you want to live in a vaguely decent place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Indeed, most of the complaints about young people not getting on the housing ladder are really London and Home Counties focused (though even the latter is still cheaper than the former and many move from the capital there when they want to start a family).

    A successful plumber married to a primary school teacher say in the North East of England could quite easily afford to buy a new semi for his family whereas it would be almost impossible for that couple to do so in London bar maybe the outer limits of suburbia.
    I think that's right: if I were leaving university now, I think I'd probably move to Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham - places where you can have a very good standard of living, and own a home in your 20s, on a graduate salary.

    London and the South East are the anomaly.
    Indeed, for graduate Brits the provincial cities and surrounding areas offer excellent value for money, London though is now a global city attracting talent from around the world and competing with New York, Paris, LA, Singapore and San Francisco and with a price tag for property and a cost of living to match
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited June 2018
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Indeed, most of the complaints about young people not getting on the housing ladder are really London and Home Counties focused (though even the latter is still cheaper than the former and many move from the capital there when they want to start a family).

    A successful plumber married to a primary school teacher say in the North East of England where the average house price is 130 000 pounds could quite easily afford to buy a new semi for his family whereas it would be almost impossible for that couple to do so in London where the average house price is 482 000 pounds bar maybe the outer limits of suburbia.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/uk-house-price-growth-slows-london-north-east-hardest-hit
    The north east is relatively cheap - average prices only about 4 times the mational average salary - but then wages are lower too. House prices in the south west are nearly double the north east - and many other English regions are 50 per cent higher than NE.

    And what happens when they have a kid and go down to one wage or have to face childcare costs.

    It's wider than just the Home Counties if you want to live in a vaguely decent place.
    Wages in London are only about 1.5 times those in the North East, house prices though are almost 4 times those in the North East in London.


    Of course you also get a higher multiple of lending on a mortgage if just one earner and say 4 times salary than a couples where it is say 3 times combined salary and of course many mothers still work part time or flexible hours and outside of London do not have the big travel and commute costs.


    You can live in a large detached house in the north for about the same price as a 1 bedroom flat in the heart of central London
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232

    Elliot said:

    alex. said:

    Leaving aside the prejudice against him by the usual suspects, Phil Hammond's speech tomorrow looks as though it has an interesting threat contained within his normal low-key wording:

    Philip Hammond will use his keynote Mansion House to the City’s elite on Thursday to say that the government intends to strike deals outside of the single market that will make the UK a gateway to financial markets.

    The chancellor will also call on the EU to negotiate a wide-ranging post-Brexit financial services deal that would provide access to EU markets for UK firms and allow EU governments and companies to borrow money cheaply in London.


    That's particularly interesting because our EU friends do seem to want to have their cake and eat it - they don't want to offer the City full access to their own market post-Brexit, but at the same time they are terrified of an offshore financial centre outside their remit, and they want to continue to benefit from capital-raising in the City as now. Well, they can't have it both ways, can they? It's time for them to decide which they want.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/chancellor-to-promise-a-series-of-post-brexit-financial-partnerships

    The constant mantra from EU negotiators is that the UK should not be surprised that they are being treated as a "third country". The reality seems to be that this is just spin - the UK is not being treated as a third country because if they were the negotiations would be about seeking out mutually beneficial arrangements wherever possible, not prioritising the UK getting worse arrangements that at present and "no better than other third party countries", regardless of the associated loss to EU member countries.

    Until the UK has left, and genuinely is a 'third country" the EU will not start to properly treat us as such.
    Which is why we shouldn't worry too much about a more distant deal. In 10 years time we can work on reducing more trade barriers without the "no cherry picking" worry.
    Ah yes, our next 10 years are irrelevant.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/994887718130864128
    Lilico is a bit silly. Well, a lot silly[1]. If Brexit has reached such a pass that its supporters claim the benefits will only be apparent in the long term, then I've got a Keynes quote for them

    [1] Seriously, what is it with some people? On the leaver side, Hannan and Lilico are manchildren who presumably only survive due to sensible wives and Bojo can't carry a vase across a room. And I'm sure the Leavers can list similar fuckwits on the Remainer side (Adonis, that QC bloke, whoever). Why is British politics full of absolute fools?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Cookie said:

    My bike, on the other hand, in the 1,500 miles or so I've done on it in the year and a bit since I bought it has had three punctures and needed a new chain, new brake blocks and a new cassette. It needs a service about every 500 miles. It's as expensive as buying petrol for a car.

    That's half as long as a cassette should last and twice as long as a chain should last. Change the chain frequently as a stretched chain will wear the cassette quicker and chains are much cheaper than cassettes.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232
    HYUFD said:

    You can live in a large detached house in the north for about the same price as a 1 bedroom flat in the heart of central London

    It's worse than that. You can rent a two bed house in Galashiels for <£500pcm. You might be able to rent one room in London for that. London is the only place where I have seen shared bedrooms advertised.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    You can live in a large detached house in the north for about the same price as a 1 bedroom flat in the heart of central London

    It's worse than that. You can rent a two bed house in Galashiels for <£500pcm. You might be able to rent one room in London for that. London is the only place where I have seen shared bedrooms advertised.</p>
    I paid £500/month for one small room in the East end of London (before it was trendy) 20 years ago.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232
    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18...

    Woah, baseline?! I assume you know Q307 was the top of the boom, plus or minus. In 2008 they fell ~20% in one year: if you picked Q408 as your baseline you'll get quite a different number.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18...

    Woah, baseline?! I assume you know Q307 was the top of the boom, plus or minus. In 2008 they fell ~20% in one year: if you picked Q408 as your baseline you'll get quite a different number.

    Yes, I meant to use the top of the market in '07. It wasn't an accidental choice.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    OK PBers:

    What proportion of residential property in the UK has mortgages on it?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:



    You have read all 300 pages of a report only issued today. Amazing. Well done, if so. Do you perhaps have a personal interest in the case? Do you have some medical qualification? Or investigative experience?

    The retired bishop is the one who led the Hillsborough inquiry, the one which finally found the truth. Unlike the previous professional investigators. So he is perhaps rather more experienced than you seem to think.

    Here it is https://www.gosportpanel.independent.gov.uk/panel-report/

    The BBC precis is definitely shorter, but it is less informative. Try giving some attention to the report itself.

    I know who the retired bishop is, i just doubt his qualifications for undertaking the task he has undertaken and I know for certain that his religious beliefs unfit him for it. Someone who has built a career on the notion that Jesus wants him for a sunbeam and is pretty much obliged to believe a lot of stuff about the sanctity of life in all circumstances is ineligible to be enquiring into end of life issues. And that follows from absolutely fundamental rules about freedom from bias, irrespective of the merits of the beliefs in question.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited June 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    OK PBers:

    What proportion of residential property in the UK has mortgages on it?

    40%? That's without googling

    Edit: and it's about owner occupied residential property. Presumably if you count tenanted property it's higher. 70%?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited June 2018
    posted on new thread
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've been working on my latest video, and have been doing some research into UK housing. It's astonishing the divergence between London and the rest of the country. Between 3Q07 and 1Q18, house prices have fallen in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while they are up less than 1% in the North West, Yorks & Humberside, and Wales.

    The astonishing number is London, where they have jumped 59%, from an already high level.

    Here's another funny fact. At the beginning of 1980, the average home in the North of England sold for £18,000 against £31,000 in London. In other words, London was just 67% more expensive. Not any more.

    Indeed, most of the complaints about young people not getting on the housing ladder are really London and Home Counties focused (though even the latter is still cheaper than the former and many move from the capital there when they want to start a family).

    A successful plumber married to a primary school teacher say in the North East of England where the average house price is 130 000 pounds could quite easily afford to buy a new semi for his family whereas it would be almost impossible for that couple to do so in London where the average house price is 482 000 pounds bar maybe the outer limits of suburbia.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/uk-house-price-growth-slows-london-north-east-hardest-hit
    Prices were pretty ludicrous in 2007 though. The fact that they've mildly decreased/flatlined in non London areas still puts them at a bigger earnings multiple than in the past.
This discussion has been closed.