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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Punters now make it a 63% chance that the UK will leave the EU

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited June 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major'from office
    Gentleman John also wanted us to be 'a nation at ease with ourselves'. What a contrast with politicians of today, who are only content when sowing the seeds of division and strife.
    Blair attempted to be initially but the Iraq War destroyed that as did his attacks on the right with things like the hunting ban, Cameron and May would have liked to be but cannot be because he was so tied to austerity and the EU referendum and she to Brexit
    Blair traded kudos with the right by attacking the left - remember the "scars on his back". That was not trying to bring people together but divide them.
    Blair is a classic example of someone who tried to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one, both the right and the left now hate him but when he came into power his approval ratings were sky high.

    Major by contrast is much more respected now than he was after his election defeat
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,202
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major's record, a successful and swiftly resolved and largely casualty free Gulf War,
    Um, except for the Iraqi "collateral damage"?
    They were the enemy
    Even the civilians??
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,017



    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.

    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.

    Although I'm now very firmly Liberal Democrat, I was an enthusiastic Conservative voter at the time of John Major - or, more accurately, I voted Conservative because I was very enthusiastic about John Major. I certainly think he's the best PM of my lifetime so far (which spans from May 1974).

    Of all the general elections that I've voted in (1997-2017) only two of those votes have been cast with genuine enthusiasm and pride - My Liberal Democrat vote in 2017 and my Conservative vote in 1997.

    The only bad thing I can possibly say about John Major is that his presence on the political stage in my formative years hid from me the fact that I'm a natural Lib Dem. He made me think that I was a Conservative and that false perception persisted right through until only a few years ago. That none of my Conservative votes post-Major were cast with any enthusiasm should have been a clue to me that I wasn't a Conservative though.

    Major was willing to trash the UK economy to stay in the ERM.

    The Bundesbank and George Soros came to the UK's rescue.
    Ahistorical nonsense. Major left the ERM rather than put interest rates back up to the level of the late 80s.
    Stop rewriting history. He was forced out because it was impossible to defend sterling whilst we were trapped in the ERM. And since he was the idiot who took us in in the first place he deserves no credit at all.
    Not because it was impossible to defend sterling but because he was obliged to defend sterling and it was clear that that obligation couldn't be met once markets tested the band.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major's record, a successful and swiftly resolved and largely casualty free Gulf War,
    Um, except for the Iraqi "collateral damage"?
    They were the enemy
    Even the civilians??
    Civilian casualties in 1990 were minimal compared to those in 2003 and the aftermath
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,580
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major'from office
    Gentleman John also wanted us to be 'a nation at ease with ourselves'. What a contrast with politicians of today, who are only content when sowing the seeds of division and strife.
    Blair attempted to be initially but the Iraq War destroyed that as did his attacks on the right with things like the hunting ban, Cameron and May would have liked to be but cannot be because he was so tied to austerity and the EU referendum and she to Brexit
    Blair traded kudos with the right by attacking the left - remember the "scars on his back". That was not trying to bring people together but divide them.
    Blair is a classic example of someone who tried to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one, both the right and the left now hate him but when he came into power his approval ratings were sky high.

    Major by contrast is much more respected now than he was after his election defeat
    You are totally right about Blair wanting to please everyone. I found it so frustrating that he would never stick his neck out and do stuff to really stick it to the Tories.

    Then along came Iraq and everything changed. Suddenly being popular was no longer important to him, and he was quite happy to ignore the mood of the nation. The only person he then wanted to please was Bush.

    Daft bugger.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Well do something about Boris if you are that concerned she might do that. You can't threaten a dead woman walking.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major'from office
    Gentleman John also wanted us to be 'a nation at ease with ourselves'. What a contrast with politicians of today, who are only content when sowing the seeds of division and strife.
    Blair attempted to be initially but the Iraq War destroyed that as did his attacks on the right with things like the hunting ban, Cameron and May would have liked to be but cannot be because he was so tied to austerity and the EU referendum and she to Brexit
    Blair traded kudos with the right by attacking the left - remember the "scars on his back". That was not trying to bring people together but divide them.
    Blair is a classic et is much more respected now than he was after his election defeat
    You are totally right about Blair wanting to please everyone. I found it so frustrating that he would never stick his neck out and do stuff to really stick it to the Tories.

    Then along came Iraq and everything changed. Suddenly being popular was no longer important to him, and he was quite happy to ignore the mood of the nation. The only person he then wanted to please was Bush.

    Daft bugger.
    Though at least he can comfort himself with all the millions that made him on the US lecture circuit and in US sales of his memoirs
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Boris is lying in wait, if the transition period lasts a day beyond December 2020 he will strike
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,017
    kle4 said:

    Well do something about Boris if you are that concerned she might do that. You can't threaten a dead woman walking.

    By popping up every week to tell Theresa May she's doing it wrong, Boris risks ending up as the face of "Bog Roll Brexit" or whatever he'll be calling it next year.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,017
    Here's his article. "We must bust out of the corsets of EU regulation"...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6604089/boris-johnson-full-british-brexit-eu-regulation/
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,202

    kle4 said:

    Well do something about Boris if you are that concerned she might do that. You can't threaten a dead woman walking.

    By popping up every week to tell Theresa May she's doing it wrong, Boris risks ending up as the face of "Bog Roll Brexit" or whatever he'll be calling it next year.
    https://twitter.com/mikeedudley/status/737700442050809856
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major's record, a successful and swiftly resolved and largely casualty free Gulf War,
    Um, except for the Iraqi "collateral damage"?
    They were the enemy
    Even the civilians??
    Civilian casualties are always likely in a war; that is the nature of war. The best a government can do is to try to minimise them while not excessively compromising the higher objective of victory.

    In any case, there weren't many civilian casualties in 1991, particularly given that there wasn't the same degree of smart technology that there is now.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,526

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major's record, a successful and swiftly resolved and largely casualty free Gulf War,
    Um, except for the Iraqi "collateral damage"?
    They were the enemy
    Even the civilians??
    Civilian casualties are always likely in a war; that is the nature of war. The best a government can do is to try to minimise them while not excessively compromising the higher objective of victory.

    In any case, there weren't many civilian casualties in 1991, particularly given that there wasn't the same degree of smart technology that there is now.
    The Civilian casualties in the first Iraq war mostly came from leaving Saddam in power: the Kurdish and Mmarsh arabs and then the million excess deaths from sanctions.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,918
    HYUFD said:


    As I said below the ERM was a mistake, but most of the political elite in both parties made the same mistake including albeit more reluctantly Mrs Thatcher.

    Major got an opt-out from the social chapter

    No he didn't. He thought he did but then the ECJ walked all over it. Hence the letter he wrote to Santer complaining how the court was going against the 'spirit' of what he thought he had agreed.

    http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1344.html

    He showed an amazing lack of understanding of the EU and continues to exhibit that same failing today.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,017
    edited June 2018

    HYUFD said:


    As I said below the ERM was a mistake, but most of the political elite in both parties made the same mistake including albeit more reluctantly Mrs Thatcher.

    Major got an opt-out from the social chapter

    No he didn't. He thought he did but then the ECJ walked all over it. Hence the letter he wrote to Santer complaining how the court was going against the 'spirit' of what he thought he had agreed.

    http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1344.html

    He showed an amazing lack of understanding of the EU and continues to exhibit that same failing today.
    As we've discussed before his complaint was about the interpretation of the Single European Act, not the Maastricht Treaty. Exactly the same ruling could have been made even if the Maastricht Treaty never existed.

    Major: However, in its judgement today, the European Court of Justice has ruled that the scope of Article 118a is much broader than the United Kingdom envisaged when the article was originally agreed, as part of the Single European Act.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited June 2018

    HYUFD said:


    As I said below the ERM was a mistake, but most of the political elite in both parties made the same mistake including albeit more reluctantly Mrs Thatcher.

    Major got an opt-out from the social chapter

    No he didn't. He thought he did but then the ECJ walked all over it. Hence the letter he wrote to Santer complaining how the court was going against the 'spirit' of what he thought he had agreed.

    http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1344.html

    He showed an amazing lack of understanding of the EU and continues to exhibit that same failing today.
    'Article 118a.
    Member States shall pay particular attention to encouraging improvements, especially in the working environment, as regards the health and safety of workers, and shall set as their objective the harmonisation of conditions in this area, while maintaining the improvements made.
    In order to help achieve the objective laid down in the first paragraph, the Council, acting in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 189c and after consulting the Economic and Social Committee, shall adopt, by means of directives, minimum requirements for gradual implementation, having regard to the conditions and technical rules obtaining in each of the Member States.
    Such directives shall avoid imposing administrative, financial and legal constraints in a way which would hold back the creation and development of small and medium-sized undertakings.'

    That was not quite the compulsion required by the social chapter which Blair signed up to in full in 1997 anyway
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/1010183449523695616

    Who said it was informal?
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Much crap is written about the economic impact of Brexit going forward; this looks at the impact so far by someone with only a very small axe to grind

    https://www.trustnet.com/news/819078/how-brexit-has-impacted-the-market-two-years-on?utm_source=Trustnet Newsletters&utm_campaign=5e9ecc6eb5-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_06_21_10_30_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2314bd04ee-5e9ecc6eb5-75452173

    It'll be interesting to see how remoaners react, if at all.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major's record, a successful and swiftly resolved and largely casualty free Gulf War, opt outs from the most federal aspects of the EU and the Euro while remaining within the EU, the legacy of a growing economy and low unemployment and inflation and few strikes and relatively balanced finances in 1997, I would say he is our 4th best postwar PM after Thatcher, Attlee and Macmillan especially when you consider the state he left the country in after he departed from office
    Fair assessment though I'd put Blair and Wilson over him because they won more elections...
    Election wins are not everything (though Major did win one), contrast Blair's 2003 Iraq War disaster with Major's conduct of the Gulf War in 1990 and Wilson left high inflation and a country plagued by strikes when he left office even if he did keep us out of Vietnam, if you are a fan of grammar schools you will also not be a fan of Wilson
    Wilson did not leave a country 'plagued by strikes' when he left office in early April 1976 - and inflation was falling. When he returned to office in March 1974 he inherited inflation at 13.5% - and rising sharply!
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    HYUFD said:


    As I said below the ERM was a mistake, but most of the political elite in both parties made the same mistake including albeit more reluctantly Mrs Thatcher.

    Major got an opt-out from the social chapter

    No he didn't. He thought he did but then the ECJ walked all over it. Hence the letter he wrote to Santer complaining how the court was going against the 'spirit' of what he thought he had agreed.

    http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1344.html

    He showed an amazing lack of understanding of the EU and continues to exhibit that same failing today.
    As we've discussed before his complaint was about the interpretation of the Single European Act, not the Maastricht Treaty. Exactly the same ruling could have been made even if the Maastricht Treaty never existed.

    Major: However, in its judgement today, the European Court of Justice has ruled that the scope of Article 118a is much broader than the United Kingdom envisaged when the article was originally agreed, as part of the Single European Act.
    The fundamental issue is that the ECJ is not a neutral court but an ideological and political actor, dedicated to the cause of European integration. It is a completely unacceptable arbiter of a Brexit deal. Any oversight court should be one composed of a mixture of British, EU and third party judges. Ones from Norway, Iceland, Canada etc should be the swing votes.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.
    So a combination of traffic driving one way and being parked at the side of the road temporarily then.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    This is a bit of a strange one, it seems a top Netflix bod for been fired for using the n word in a meeting about the use of the n word (and other sensitive words / phrases).

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jonathan-friedland-exits-netflix-1122675

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I respect John Major, but since he obviously believes no time would be 'ok' for Brexit I am not sure that really says much.
    For John Major, this is personal.
    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.
    Major had rings run round him by the EU. So much so he ended up writing to Jacques Santer after the event moaning about how the British interpretation of the Maastricht Treaty had been ignored and overruled. The guy was dumber than a bag of rocks.
    If you look at Major's record, a successful and swiftly resolved and largely casualty free Gulf War, opt outs from the most federal aspects of the EU and the Euro while remaining within the EU, the legacy of a growing economy and low unemployment and inflation and few strikes and relatively balanced finances in 1997, I would say he is our 4th best postwar PM after Thatcher, Attlee and Macmillan especially when you consider the state he left the country in after he departed from office
    Fair assessment though I'd put Blair and Wilson over him because they won more elections...
    Election wins are not everything (though Major did win one), contrast Blair's 2003 Iraq War disaster with Major's conduct of the Gulf War in 1990 and Wilson left high inflation and a country plagued by strikes when he left office even if he did keep us out of Vietnam, if you are a fan of grammar schools you will also not be a fan of Wilson
    Wilson did not leave a country 'plagued by strikes' when he left office in early April 1976 - and inflation was falling. When he returned to office in March 1974 he inherited inflation at 13.5% - and rising sharply!
    Compared to when he first took office in 1964 both inflation and strikes rose significantly in the Wilson years, admittedly in the Heath and Callaghan years too and it took Thatcher to reverse them
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046



    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.

    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.

    Although I'm now very firmly Liberal Democrat, I was an enthusiastic Conservative voter at the time of John Major - or, more accurately, I voted Conservative because I was very enthusiastic about John Major. I certainly think he's the best PM of my lifetime so far (which spans from May 1974).

    Of all the general elections that I've voted in (1997-2017) only two of those votes have been cast with genuine enthusiasm and pride - My Liberal Democrat vote in 2017 and my Conservative vote in 1997.

    The only bad thing I can possibly say about John Major is that his presence on the political stage in my formative years hid from me the fact that I'm a natural Lib Dem. He made me think that I was a Conservative and that false perception persisted right through until only a few years ago. That none of my Conservative votes post-Major were cast with any enthusiasm should have been a clue to me that I wasn't a Conservative though.

    Major was willing to trash the UK economy to stay in the ERM.

    The Bundesbank and George Soros came to the UK's rescue.
    Ahistorical nonsense. Major left the ERM rather than put interest rates back up to the level of the late 80s.
    That interest rates were raised firstly to 12% and then to 15% is a fact.

    That those interest rates didn't stop the exit from the ERM was not Major's choice.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,017



    Even though the EU made a complete fool of him and showed just how little power he really had. The man really is an idiot.

    Only in your twisted Eurosceptic mind did he not have victories!

    For all the bile you forward toward him, did he not secure opt outs for various policies? They may have been opted back in by later governments but it is unbalanced to say he did not have victories. His government fell apart and I have long held the opinion he should have fallen on his sword in 1995 to mitigate the coming defeat at the next GE.

    It is not historically accurate to portray the UKs European involvement as one way traffic or successive humiliations. The UK has opted out of many policy areas, I think we dodged a bullet in not signing up to the Euro! I think Brexit is a fundamental mistake given the weight of economic activity conducted with our nearest geographical neighbours.

    Although I'm now very firmly Liberal Democrat, I was an enthusiastic Conservative voter at the time of John Major - or, more accurately, I voted Conservative because I was very enthusiastic about John Major. I certainly think he's the best PM of my lifetime so far (which spans from May 1974).

    Of all the general elections that I've voted in (1997-2017) only two of those votes have been cast with genuine enthusiasm and pride - My Liberal Democrat vote in 2017 and my Conservative vote in 1997.

    The only bad thing I can possibly say about John Major is that his presence on the political stage in my formative years hid from me the fact that I'm a natural Lib Dem. He made me think that I was a Conservative and that false perception persisted right through until only a few years ago. That none of my Conservative votes post-Major were cast with any enthusiasm should have been a clue to me that I wasn't a Conservative though.

    Major was willing to trash the UK economy to stay in the ERM.

    The Bundesbank and George Soros came to the UK's rescue.
    Ahistorical nonsense. Major left the ERM rather than put interest rates back up to the level of the late 80s.
    That interest rates were raised firstly to 12% and then to 15% is a fact.

    That those interest rates didn't stop the exit from the ERM was not Major's choice.
    That all happened in an afternoon and as soon as the decision was made to leave the ERM they were put down again.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,129
    Lukaku adding additional ingredients to English center backs nightmares.
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