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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On this big day let’s remember Ken Clarke’s assessment of TMay

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  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    "We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations" s of course the EU characterisation of the UK's position, and not a neutral one.

    However, that is beside the point. The EU have heard many times what the UK's position is, but they disingenuously imply they are still waiting to hear it. What they mean is "we are yet to hear a position from the UK we can accept" which is entirely different.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    You are barmy.
    Can we blame it on the heat , he seems to be losing it.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Polruan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Barnier - "The British have a nice car, I am sure they would not want it to be scratched."

    More “the British have a nice car, how do they think that angle-grinder’s going to make it look better?”
    That angle-grinder you were going to buy with money borrowed from the CIty of London?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298

    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    No. It isn’t at all. The UK is proposing a sensible balance of costs/commitments/obligations in certain areas (goods) and detachment in others (services) on a quid pro quo basis. The EU is pushing for ideological fundamentalism on an all or nothing approach, and is shamelessly using NI (a very delicate political situation) as a lever to do this.

    I think it’s disgusting and I’m surprised you don’t too.

    How depressing it is to see you supporting the aggressive provocations of a foreign power rather than your own country.
    Jeez. It's only a trade deal calm down. If we're so vexed about it let's just leave, right? Fuck 'em.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Surely someone has to resign today. If we get the usual 'Cabinet now more unified and content than they've been in decades' stuff only for Boris to recommence his sniping within days, then I'll be peeved.

    Indeed. Even if it is months, it is beyond parody for one side or the other to stay on only to moan about the direction later.
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    NI already has a separate status - the State of Spongers ! Give it to Ireland where it belongs. Just look at the map!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,058

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    With a customs border where?
    I think both the UK and EU need to travel on that one.

    NI already has a special status in so many ways.
    Which is avoiding the question. Infrastructure and checks have been categorically ruled out on the land border, so there's only one place where it can happen if the rest of the UK leaves the single market and customs union.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Polruan said:

    More “the British have a nice car, how do they think that angle-grinder’s going to make it look better?”

    The British have a nice car industry. It will look better in Slovakia...
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    surby said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    If you don't like the Customs Union, just ditch Northern Ireland. More than half of NI population will support it anyway.
    More than half???
    Yes! They voted to Remain.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    With a customs border where?
    I think both the UK and EU need to travel on that one.

    NI already has a special status in so many ways.
    Which is avoiding the question. Infrastructure and checks have been categorically ruled out on the land border, so there's only one place where it can happen if the rest of the UK leaves the single market and customs union.
    And they’ve been categorically ruled out within the UK single market as well.

    So the only solution is a compromise.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    surby said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    NI already has a separate status - the State of Spongers ! Give it to Ireland where it belongs. Just look at the map!
    Do the people of NI get a say in this?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    With a customs border where?
    I think both the UK and EU need to travel on that one.

    NI already has a special status in so many ways.
    Which is avoiding the question. Infrastructure and checks have been categorically ruled out on the land border, so there's only one place where it can happen if the rest of the UK leaves the single market and customs union.
    And they’ve been categorically ruled out within the UK single market as well.

    So the only solution is a compromise.
    Yep. EEA.
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    I am deeply disappointed. No resignations yet and the match will start at 3pm. No one is going to pay any attention after that.

    OTOH, you could have a waft of resignations when England is playing tomorrow.
  • Options
    currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    TOPPING said:

    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    No. It isn’t at all. The UK is proposing a sensible balance of costs/commitments/obligations in certain areas (goods) and detachment in others (services) on a quid pro quo basis. The EU is pushing for ideological fundamentalism on an all or nothing approach, and is shamelessly using NI (a very delicate political situation) as a lever to do this.

    I think it’s disgusting and I’m surprised you don’t too.

    How depressing it is to see you supporting the aggressive provocations of a foreign power rather than your own country.
    Jeez. It's only a trade deal calm down. If we're so vexed about it let's just leave, right? Fuck 'em.
    Im convinced that is May's plan. She can say she has acted as reasonably as possible in the negotiations and it is the EU's fault that no deal could be agreed and that they are not respecting the wishes of the British people
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    You are barmy.
    Can we blame it on the heat , he seems to be losing it.
    I am perfectly calm.

    To anyone who soberly analyses the situation (rather than cheering the EU on) the EU’s tactics are obvious.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    TOPPING said:

    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    No. It isn’t at all. The UK is proposing a sensible balance of costs/commitments/obligations in certain areas (goods) and detachment in others (services) on a quid pro quo basis. The EU is pushing for ideological fundamentalism on an all or nothing approach, and is shamelessly using NI (a very delicate political situation) as a lever to do this.

    I think it’s disgusting and I’m surprised you don’t too.

    How depressing it is to see you supporting the aggressive provocations of a foreign power rather than your own country.
    Jeez. It's only a trade deal calm down. If we're so vexed about it let's just leave, right? Fuck 'em.
    We have quite sophisticated integrated supply chains. A no deal would totally screw them up. But im not keen on essentially being in the single market for goods but not for services. We export mostly services and import mostly goods.

    It's all right Barnier implying that these things are no go, but what we are going to get from this is an agreed position that May can present. Here it is. This is a deal we can accept or we can do the Canada thing. I can deliver nothing else, think it over. Leet us know if you want to keep selling us cars.
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    edited July 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    With a customs border where?
    I think both the UK and EU need to travel on that one.

    NI already has a special status in so many ways.
    Which is avoiding the question. Infrastructure and checks have been categorically ruled out on the land border, so there's only one place where it can happen if the rest of the UK leaves the single market and customs union.
    And they’ve been categorically ruled out within the UK single market as well.

    So the only solution is a compromise.
    Yep. EEA.
    That's what Dan Hannan wanted all along. To be fair, he did not have a problem with FoM.
  • Options
    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    The Ridgeway crosses the driveway
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    Except that isn't it, since if there were nothing for either side to gain in a negotiation because either you're on or you're out, then neither side would be discussing anything in the first place.

    Clearly both sides believe some things can be had despite not being members, for a cost, they're just a million miles apart on what is up for grabs.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Neither is the fundamental difference. The basis of law and the nature of the constitution are for nerds, academics and practitioners.

    To the extent that there was any fundamental difference between the UK and other EU members that led to Brexit, it was about the popular conception of the nature and role of the nation-state.
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    notme said:

    TOPPING said:

    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    No. It isn’t at all. The UK is proposing a sensible balance of costs/commitments/obligations in certain areas (goods) and detachment in others (services) on a quid pro quo basis. The EU is pushing for ideological fundamentalism on an all or nothing approach, and is shamelessly using NI (a very delicate political situation) as a lever to do this.

    I think it’s disgusting and I’m surprised you don’t too.

    How depressing it is to see you supporting the aggressive provocations of a foreign power rather than your own country.
    Jeez. It's only a trade deal calm down. If we're so vexed about it let's just leave, right? Fuck 'em.
    We have quite sophisticated integrated supply chains. A no deal would totally screw them up. But im not keen on essentially being in the single market for goods but not for services. We export mostly services and import mostly goods.

    It's all right Barnier implying that these things are no go, but what we are going to get from this is an agreed position that May can present. Here it is. This is a deal we can accept or we can do the Canada thing. I can deliver nothing else, think it over. Leet us know if you want to keep selling us cars.
    Or, re-invent the Bobby Ewing shower ! The whole thing never happened. It was just a bad nightmare.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    I imagine that Chequers still has landlines - indeed, probably, quite a complex switchboard.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Polruan said:

    More “the British have a nice car, how do they think that angle-grinder’s going to make it look better?”

    The British have a nice car industry. It will look better in Slovakia...
    A point which will surely not be missed by the Slovakians, when the time comes to vote on acceptance of whatever Brexit deal can be cobbled together.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Labour have been lucky over their anti-semitism row:

    https://twitter.com/Catholeft/status/1015170795696422912
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    As an aside, if a member of the cabinet is going to resign, I'd appreciate it if they could do so before the end of the Brazil-Belgium game.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    I vaguely recall going there on a demo - I think we were actually protesting Jacques Chirac, who was visiting, and his nuclear tests. If memory serves we got reasonably close on the public footpath, but not actually throwing things / heckling distance. The police were generally friendly about it although they took everyone's photos.

    That was before the right to roam, so access may now be even better.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Neither is the fundamental difference. The basis of law and the nature of the constitution are for nerds, academics and practitioners.

    To the extent that there was any fundamental difference between the UK and other EU members that led to Brexit, it was about the popular conception of the nature and role of the nation-state.
    They (their leaders) see their nation states as the source of conflict and war, while we see our nation state as the defender against war and conflict.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Edinson Cavani misses out through injury for Uruguay.
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    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it. We will not reverse what we achieved with the UK. We must find solutions that respect the integrity of the single market."

    Barnier, today! So Chequers is a waste of time ?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,058
    edited July 2018

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Neither is the fundamental difference. The basis of law and the nature of the constitution are for nerds, academics and practitioners.

    To the extent that there was any fundamental difference between the UK and other EU members that led to Brexit, it was about the popular conception of the nature and role of the nation-state.
    That's related to my point. To the UK it's natural to think of itself as a nation state despite being a union of nations. It therefore perceives the ultimate goal of the EU to be a bigger version of itself in which the UK's position is comparable to Scotland's within the UK.

    The way to fix is it to make England a nation state again which will end its sense of anxiety about being dissolved away.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    You are barmy.
    Can we blame it on the heat , he seems to be losing it.
    I am perfectly calm.

    To anyone who soberly analyses the situation (rather than cheering the EU on) the EU’s tactics are obvious.
    Well hopefully , we will have more clarity after today , what the UK position is.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    surby said:

    surby said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    If you don't like the Customs Union, just ditch Northern Ireland. More than half of NI population will support it anyway.
    More than half???
    Yes! They voted to Remain.
    56% of 62.7%.....
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,979
    edited July 2018
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Neither is the fundamental difference. The basis of law and the nature of the constitution are for nerds, academics and practitioners.

    To the extent that there was any fundamental difference between the UK and other EU members that led to Brexit, it was about the popular conception of the nature and role of the nation-state.
    That's related to my point. To the UK it's natural to think of itself as a nation state despite being a union of nations. It therefore perceives the ultimate goal of the EU to be a bigger version of itself in which the UK's position is comparable to Scotland's within the UK.

    The way to fix is it to make England a nation state again which will end its sense of anxiety about being dissolved away.
    Cobblers. Mixed in with utter drivel.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    I imagine that Chequers still has landlines - indeed, probably, quite a complex switchboard.
    Probably beyond the capabilities of most of the cabinet's leavers, then.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    surby said:

    "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it. We will not reverse what we achieved with the UK. We must find solutions that respect the integrity of the single market."

    Barnier, today! So Chequers is a waste of time ?

    More to the point, it's about domestic politics, not the actual negotation. The tightrope TMay has to walk is to be BINO enough to cause one of her enemies to flounce and call a leadership election, but not so BINO that she loses it.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,715
    currystar said:

    TOPPING said:

    rpjs said:

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position

    UK: here you go...

    EU: go f*ck yourself

    (rinse & repeat)

    No it’s more like

    EU: we are waiting for the UK to set out its position.

    UK: We’d like to keep these benefits of membership without any of the obligations

    EU: Er, aren’t you listening? We’ve already told you that you can’t have that. It would undermine the whole point of membership.

    (rinse & repeat)
    No. It isn’t at all. The UK is proposing a sensible balance of costs/commitments/obligations in certain areas (goods) and detachment in others (services) on a quid pro quo basis. The EU is pushing for ideological fundamentalism on an all or nothing approach, and is shamelessly using NI (a very delicate political situation) as a lever to do this.

    I think it’s disgusting and I’m surprised you don’t too.

    How depressing it is to see you supporting the aggressive provocations of a foreign power rather than your own country.
    Jeez. It's only a trade deal calm down. If we're so vexed about it let's just leave, right? Fuck 'em.
    Im convinced that is May's plan. She can say she has acted as reasonably as possible in the negotiations and it is the EU's fault that no deal could be agreed and that they are not respecting the wishes of the British people
    Just over half of the British people (2 years ago).
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: second practice underway.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Scott_P said:

    Polruan said:

    More “the British have a nice car, how do they think that angle-grinder’s going to make it look better?”

    The British have a nice car industry. It will look better in Slovakia...
    A point which will surely not be missed by the Slovakians, when the time comes to vote on acceptance of whatever Brexit deal can be cobbled together.
    usual guff
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    surby said:

    "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it. We will not reverse what we achieved with the UK. We must find solutions that respect the integrity of the single market."

    Barnier, today! So Chequers is a waste of time ?

    God Barnier or Suarez in an hour. What a choice: pity both can’t lose five nil on penalties.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Scott_P said:

    Polruan said:

    More “the British have a nice car, how do they think that angle-grinder’s going to make it look better?”

    The British have a nice car industry. It will look better in Slovakia...
    A point which will surely not be missed by the Slovakians, when the time comes to vote on acceptance of whatever Brexit deal can be cobbled together.
    usual guff
    Nice of you to precise your posts like that.
    :smile:
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    surby said:

    "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it. We will not reverse what we achieved with the UK. We must find solutions that respect the integrity of the single market."

    Barnier, today! So Chequers is a waste of time ?

    Yes! TMay attempting to kick the can down the road... Again!
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The long read
    The George Soros philosophy – and its fatal flaw

    Unlike most of the billionaire class, George Soros is not an out-of-touch plutocrat, but a provocative thinker committed to progressive ideals – which is what makes his failures so telling.

    By Daniel Bessner"


    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/06/the-george-soros-philosophy-and-its-fatal-flaw
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    edited July 2018

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    I wonder if you might have mistook SeanT for one of my anecdotes, when I was walking the Ridgeway past Chequers, decided to confuse a security camera by walking around its base, and was met by two 'local' women.

    http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2002/204.php

    That feels like a lifetime ago ...

    And it's the Ridgeway National Trail, not just any old footpath.
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    I am deeply, deeply disappointed. I have a skype meeting at 2:30. The football starts at 3:00.

    No resignations yet!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    But a Downing Street spokeswoman said: "Our position on this is pretty clear. We owe a debt of gratitude to the soldiers and police officers who upheld the rule of law.

    "We cannot countenance a a proposal where amnesties would be provided to terrorists."

    The spat marks the latest bitter row between Number 10 and Mr Williamson, who has been pushing for a spending boost for the Armed Forces and last month angered Tory colleagues with a threat to bring down Mrs May over the issue.


    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/defence/military-campaigns/news/96613/theresa-may-slaps-down-gavin-williamson-over-ira
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    Polruan said:

    More “the British have a nice car, how do they think that angle-grinder’s going to make it look better?”

    The British have a nice car industry. It will look better in Slovakia...
    A point which will surely not be missed by the Slovakians, when the time comes to vote on acceptance of whatever Brexit deal can be cobbled together.
    usual guff
    Nice of you to precise your posts like that.
    :smile:
    well after a while you just get bored with prats who have never been in a car plant repeating PR drivel

    I know several UK suppliers who have facilities in E Europe and they all say the same thing the labour situation in Visegrad 4 countries is extremely tight and getting labour, any labour is getting harder by the day. This is mostly because couuntries like Slovakia have the highest car output per head in the EU. There is little ability to cope with more output, wages are rising quickly and skilled people are in high demand.


    does that help ?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Crash Verstappen back to his usual self again!
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    surby said:

    surby said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    If you don't like the Customs Union, just ditch Northern Ireland. More than half of NI population will support it anyway.
    More than half???
    Yes! They voted to Remain.
    56% of 62.7%.....
    If you are trying to imply that this does not represent a majority, then 52% of 72% also does not give a majority !

    Shall we agree to call off the whole thing ?
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    I've been out.

    How many Cabinet members have ordered the taxi so far?
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    I wonder if you might have mistook SeanT for one of my anecdotes, when I was walking the Ridgeway past Chequers, decided to confuse a security camera by walking around its base, and was met by two 'local' women.

    http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2002/204.php

    That feels like a lifetime ago ...

    And it's the Ridgeway National Trail, not just any old footpath.
    No, this was definitely SeanT. He made the point that being able to get so close to PM's pad was vindication enough for Brexit.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    surby said:

    I am deeply, deeply disappointed. I have a skype meeting at 2:30. The football starts at 3:00.

    No resignations yet!

    Which plonker scheduled that!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    surby said:

    surby said:

    surby said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    If you don't like the Customs Union, just ditch Northern Ireland. More than half of NI population will support it anyway.
    More than half???
    Yes! They voted to Remain.
    56% of 62.7%.....
    If you are trying to imply that this does not represent a majority, then 52% of 72% also does not give a majority !

    Shall we agree to call off the whole thing ?
    Well, as you were trying to slide acrosss an answer to one question as an answer to a different question...no!
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,815
    eek said:
    It's already too late for the Conservatives... The fate of the country is still to be determined.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,058

    I've been out.

    How many Cabinet members have ordered the taxi so far?

    None so far. They've had lunch.
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1015221028476375041
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Alistair said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    Yes, if you want to ignore the whole thing with Ireland then it has.
    And then there was that losing a rather large empire episode as well.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    surby said:

    I am deeply, deeply disappointed. I have a skype meeting at 2:30. The football starts at 3:00.

    No resignations yet!

    If you haven't mastered doing about four things whilst on a skype call - watching the footy, playing a game, scanning pb.com updates on Who Has Walked Out - you really aren't getting the most out of using it.....
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    I wonder if you might have mistook SeanT for one of my anecdotes, when I was walking the Ridgeway past Chequers, decided to confuse a security camera by walking around its base, and was met by two 'local' women.

    http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2002/204.php

    That feels like a lifetime ago ...

    And it's the Ridgeway National Trail, not just any old footpath.
    No, this was definitely SeanT. He made the point that being able to get so close to PM's pad was vindication enough for Brexit.
    I didn't see that: what was his 'reasoning'?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    I've been out.

    How many Cabinet members have ordered the taxi so far?

    None so far. They've had lunch.
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1015221028476375041
    That Tea Loaf isn't the only thing that is going to be sticky today.....
  • Options
    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Labour have been lucky over their anti-semitism row:

    https://twitter.com/Catholeft/status/1015170795696422912

    Are they comparing Jezza to Oswald Mosley?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    RoyalBlue said:

    We don’t want to create a border within the U.K.?

    Piss off Barnier.
    It’s very revealing.

    It’s evidence that NI is only being used (shamelessly and recklessly) to force the UK into a softer Brexit.
    You are barmy.
    A perfect precis.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    surby said:

    "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it. We will not reverse what we achieved with the UK. We must find solutions that respect the integrity of the single market."

    Barnier, today! So Chequers is a waste of time ?

    More to the point, it's about domestic politics, not the actual negotation. The tightrope TMay has to walk is to be BINO enough to cause one of her enemies to flounce and call a leadership election, but not so BINO that she loses it.
    How exactly does one of her enemies "call a leadership election"?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    surby said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:


    What a horror vision of continental hegemony.

    L’etat c’est moi would fit Barnier to a T.
    The vision of the EU doesn’t fit with a common law jursidiction. This is the fundamental contradiction that led to Brexit.
    If there's an inherent contradiction with the UK, it's not common law per se, but the fact that we are ourselves a union of nations without a written constitution.
    Written constitutions are for those without imagination or an interest in history.

    GB has survived for over 300 years, and with a Union of Crowns for over 100 years more.

    Come back with your Eurobabble when it has survived longer than that.
    "GB has survived" - that's an interesting choice of words. I presume on that basis the Northern Ireland backstop will be no sacrifice at all in order to achieve Brexit?
    It’s perfectly obvious that NI needs a special status with both the EU and UK that both the EU and UK can recognise.
    NI already has a separate status - the State of Spongers ! Give it to Ireland where it belongs. Just look at the map!
    The locals might disagree. Forcefully,
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    surby said:

    "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it. We will not reverse what we achieved with the UK. We must find solutions that respect the integrity of the single market."

    Barnier, today! So Chequers is a waste of time ?

    More to the point, it's about domestic politics, not the actual negotation. The tightrope TMay has to walk is to be BINO enough to cause one of her enemies to flounce and call a leadership election, but not so BINO that she loses it.
    How exactly does one of her enemies "call a leadership election"?
    Saying, 'I want a leadership election, and people should put their letters in' I assume?
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    eek said:
    Pretty much, yes: of course "Britain's future depends on Brexit meaning Brexit", insofar as that fatuous phrase makes any sense whatsoever. Will Britain have a future with or without Brexit? Yes. Will that future be different depending whether a Moggian Hard Brexit is delivered, or otherwise? Yes. Thank you for that insight, Mr Mogg, whatever would we do without you.

    Increasingly I'm finding "the future of the Conservatives" the more interesting half of the question. The present parliamentary Conservative party is a disgrace. I say "the present" because the Conservative party is a great institution with a storied history; I say "parliamentary" because my experience of Conservatives at country and district level (Oxfordshire and West Oxfordshire respectively, for what it's worth) is often exemplary. But the present Parliamentary Conservative party is incoherent, incompetent, and incapable of running the country. The sooner it implodes and new, more coherent parties emerge, the better for Britain.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: Verstappen's car insurance premium rises.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    edited July 2018

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    I wonder if you might have mistook SeanT for one of my anecdotes, when I was walking the Ridgeway past Chequers, decided to confuse a security camera by walking around its base, and was met by two 'local' women.

    http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2002/204.php

    That feels like a lifetime ago ...

    And it's the Ridgeway National Trail, not just any old footpath.
    No, this was definitely SeanT. He made the point that being able to get so close to PM's pad was vindication enough for Brexit.
    I didn't see that: what was his 'reasoning'?
    You couldn't do that on the continent - proves we're a race apart.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    surby said:

    They can't even call Uber. Boris could do with a walk to the station.
    SeanT was telling us that a public footpaths runs right alongside Chequers ('Because this is England...'). Handy!
    I wonder if you might have mistook SeanT for one of my anecdotes, when I was walking the Ridgeway past Chequers, decided to confuse a security camera by walking around its base, and was met by two 'local' women.

    http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2002/204.php

    That feels like a lifetime ago ...

    And it's the Ridgeway National Trail, not just any old footpath.
    No, this was definitely SeanT. He made the point that being able to get so close to PM's pad was vindication enough for Brexit.
    I didn't see that: what was his 'reasoning'?
    You couldn't do that on the continent - proves we're a race apart.
    Ah thanks.

    I sometimes get the impression that our dear Sean is a little bit, you know, crazy.

    Though I'm sure it's all an act. :)
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    I've been out.

    How many Cabinet members have ordered the taxi so far?

    None so far. They've had lunch.
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1015221028476375041
    That Tea Loaf isn't the only thing that is going to be sticky today.....
    No provision for vegetarians and pescatarians?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,058
    justin124 said:

    I've been out.

    How many Cabinet members have ordered the taxi so far?

    None so far. They've had lunch.
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1015221028476375041
    That Tea Loaf isn't the only thing that is going to be sticky today.....
    No provision for vegetarians and pescatarians?
    They can eat jam and potatoes.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    justin124 said:

    I've been out.

    How many Cabinet members have ordered the taxi so far?

    None so far. They've had lunch.
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1015221028476375041
    That Tea Loaf isn't the only thing that is going to be sticky today.....
    No provision for vegetarians and pescatarians?
    They can eat jam and potatoes.
    I have to say strawberry jam isn't very innovative. Liam Fox will be disapproving.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854


    Increasingly I'm finding "the future of the Conservatives" the more interesting half of the question. The present parliamentary Conservative party is a disgrace. I say "the present" because the Conservative party is a great institution with a storied history; I say "parliamentary" because my experience of Conservatives at country and district level (Oxfordshire and West Oxfordshire respectively, for what it's worth) is often exemplary. But the present Parliamentary Conservative party is incoherent, incompetent, and incapable of running the country. The sooner it implodes and new, more coherent parties emerge, the better for Britain.

    Indeed. There will always be some form of centre-right party or bloc of parties to counterbalance Labour and the centre-left and the Conservatives came back from the disaster of 1997 (aided by the financial crash) even though it took 13 years.

    I think the psychological impact of the period of Opposition has had a lingering effect. Principles such as lower taxes have been abandoned in favour of the economic populism of raising taxes to fund the NHS.

    Too much of current Government thinking is through the prism of what will keep the Party popular rather than what is right and the fear of Corbyn notwithstanding, it's not enough to articulate a reason NOT to vote for another party, there has to be a positive reason for voting Conservative.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426

    NEW THREAD

This discussion has been closed.