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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Are the odds on England getting to the final shortening. Russia and Croatia are poor

    They are indeed.
    Shortening or poor ?
    Poor.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited July 2018
    DavidL said:

    Are the odds on England getting to the final shortening. Russia and Croatia are poor

    They are indeed.
    1.8 - longer, I think, than when Russia went 1-0 up
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Pagan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan said:



    If you are ment

    Its got nothing to do with any of that

    I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers

    I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.

    The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.


    The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
    It has everything to do with that and indeed you have just proved my point as it is too many low skilled min wage migrants the working class primarily voted Leave to reduce.

    You may not care about austerity, Corbyn and McDonnell certainly do and will not only definitely not have any more of it but will go on a spending spree unparalleled by any government for decades, funded by big tax rises on the wealthy and the rich.

    Spending as a percentall and have ironically in effect voted to end austerity not increase it.
    Did you not read what I said? Obviously not. Yes Corbyn and McDonnel will go on a spending splurge, I see that as a plus I hope they bankrupt us. That means we have to start living within our means. That means cutting back the state signifigantly. I have no party to vote for that has aims like mine so I will vote for a party that will bring about what I want even if it is inadvertently
    If you think voters are going to vote for Corbyn to increase spending after almost a decade of austerity then change their mind the next general election and vote for a party promising to take spending down to Singapore levels and slash funds for the NHS etc you are living in cloud cuckoo land.


    Though if slashing spending and Brexit is the be all and end all for you I suggest the UK Libertarian Party may be an option, given their commitment to lower taxes, small government and leaving the EU and replacing it with free trade agreements


    https://libertarianpartyuk.com/
    I was indeed a paid up member when chris mounsie was in charge, andrew withers however who took over was in my opinion a conman out for a quick buck so I left
    Though with a party relatively small like the Libertarian Party every active member can have a real influence
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Scott_P said:
    Well perhaps we can hope, assuming the EU are not rejecting outright, that more people exist than Remain Ultras and Brexiteers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Croatia within literally an inch of going ahead there!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Gove is on Marr tomorrow.

    Will he give Brexiteers the Boris treatment?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited July 2018
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.

    Action replay now taking place.

    Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.

    The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.

    I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?

    If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
    I agree the two issues are not a great comparison, although whether it will be as destructive as some think I am uncertain on. I think it more likely Con will take a hit enough to definitely lose the next election, without being demolished.
    If it looks like May will take a hit so badly because of her EU deal she will lose to Corbyn due to Tory Leave voters staying at home or going to UKIP or even voting Labour, Boris or Rees Mogg will be elected Tory leader to replace her before the transition period ends at the end of December 2020 and before 2022 when the next general election is due (the main difference of May's deal probably to ensure that transition period takes place)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Are the odds on England getting to the final shortening. Russia and Croatia are poor

    They are indeed.
    1.8 - longer, I think, than when Russia went 1-0 up
    To have the opportunity to reach a WC final by beating one of these two is a chance that most of this England squad will never get again.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    edited July 2018
    Totally O’t but I;m off to the Canary Islands tomorrow and I’m not sure of either the WiFi (though I think it’s OK) or the ability of my iPad ..... not taking a laptop......to connect with vanilla’s forums. Or, pace Mr D, fora!

    I hope to be able to resume my odd geriatric ramblings in a couple of weeks time, by which time I hope the whole Bexit business will be sorted and football will have come home!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news indeed. Road racing probably the most dangerous sport in Britain. Rest in Peace.
    One has to have enormous sympathy for his mother. Husband and son lost in this fashion.
    And Joey Dunlop's brother.
    Not a sport for mothers and wives (& yeah, I know there are women racers too).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Scott_P said:

    Gove is on Marr tomorrow.

    Will he give Brexiteers the Boris treatment?

    "People in this country have had enough of populists." :lol:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Scott_P said:

    Gove is on Marr tomorrow.

    Will he give Brexiteers the Boris treatment?

    Reported he was the first Brexiteer to support TM
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.

    As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.

    The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
    Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
    Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.

    The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
    But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.

    We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
    I am not predicting, simply noting it as a route out of this mess.

    The terms we leave on ultimately come down to Mrs May’s willingness to eat FOM in exchange for privileged access to the single market. It’s as simple as that.
    It depends how theological the EU want to be but, logically, FOM should be a dealbreaker for services but not goods.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
    No, he is saying they have had enough of a subset of experts and is shouted down mid sentence. Your point is on a primary school playground level of silliness.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sandpit said:

    Croatia within literally an inch of going ahead there!

    At the risk of silly conspiracy theories I really don’t understand how that did not go in.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Reported he was the first Brexiteer to support TM

    That was yesterday...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.

    Action replay now taking place.

    Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.

    The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.

    I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?

    If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
    I agree the two issues are not a great comparison, although whether it will be as destructive as some think I am uncertain on. I think it more likely Con will take a hit enough to definitely lose the next election, without being demolished.
    If it looks like May will take a hit so badly because of her EU deal she will lose to Corbyn due to Tory voters staying at home or going to UKIP Boris or Rees Mogg will be elected Tory leader to replace her before the transition period ends at the end of December 2020 (the main difference of May's deal probably to ensure that transition period takes place)
    Oh I am sure she will be replaced long before the next scheduled election regardless, but if there are enough people angry enough at Brexit to at least say they will vote Corbyn in protest (even though he won't change the Brexit outcome) or stay at home, and that materialises to at least a small degree (which is all it would take), I don't see them coming back, say, because Javid the Betrayer of Chequers who backed May's deal, and I don't see how if this Brexit path continues that the MPs let a Rees Mogg type take over.

    Boris has had his day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited July 2018

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news indeed. Road racing probably the most dangerous sport in Britain. Rest in Peace.
    One has to have enormous sympathy for his mother. Husband and son lost in this fashion.
    Indeed so. While who participate in these extreme sports know the risks, their wives and mothers are often the ones left grieving when accidents happen.

    It’s often said that F1 drivers are never the same again after they have children, the most recent example being Nico Rosberg who quit as soon as he won the title - and hasn’t driven any sort of racing car since.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
    No, he is saying they have had enough of a subset of experts and is shouted down mid sentence. Your point is on a primary school playground level of silliness.
    It's equivalent to Boris Johnson's "F*** business". He obviously doesn't mean all business but just those businesses that are frustrating his plans. The fact that he qualifies it does not make it illegitimate to shorten it to the sound-bite.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Totally O’t but I;m off to the Canary Islands tomorrow and I’m not sure of either the WiFi (though I think it’s OK) or the ability of my iPad ..... not taking a laptop......to connect with vanilla’s forums. Or, pace Mr D, fora!

    I hope to be able to resume my odd geriatric ramblings in a couple of weeks time, by which time I hope the whole Bexit business will be sorted and football will have come home!

    Have a good trip! Yes iPads work just fine - I’m on one now.
    Use https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com for best results!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    This game is like a kick around in a school yard. Very poor
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited July 2018
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.

    Action replay now taking place.

    Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.

    The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.

    I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?

    If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
    I agree the two issues are not a great comparison, although whether it will be as destructive as some think I am uncertain on. I think it more likely Con will take a hit enough to definitely lose the next election, without being demolished.
    If it looks like May will take a hit so badly because of her EU deal she will lose to Corbyn due to Tory voters staying at home or going to UKIP Boris or Rees Mogg will be elected Tory leader to replace her before the transition period ends at the end of December 2020 (the main difference of May's deal probably to ensure that transition period takes place)
    Oh I am sure she will be replaced long before the next scheduled election regardless, but if there are enough people angry enough at Brexit to at least say they will vote Corbyn in protest (even though he won't change the Brexit outcome) or stay at home, and that materialises to at least a small degree (which is all it would take), I don't see them coming back, say, because Javid the Betrayer of Chequers who backed May's deal, and I don't see how if this Brexit path continues that the MPs let a Rees Mogg type take over.

    Boris has had his day.
    The ongoing exposure of Brexiter mendacity is one of the few net benefits of Brexit. History will be unkind to Davis and brutal to Boris.

    The jury’s still out on Gove.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Croatia within literally an inch of going ahead there!

    At the risk of silly conspiracy theories I really don’t understand how that did not go in.
    Electromagnet in the goalpost?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.

    Action replay now taking place.

    Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.

    The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.

    I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?

    If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
    I agree the two issues are not a great comparison, although whether it will be as destructive as some think I am uncertain on. I think it more likely Con will take a hit enough to definitely lose the next election, without being demolished.
    If it looks like May will take a hit so badly because of her EU deal she will lose to Corbyn due to Tory voters staying at home or going to UKIP Boris or Rees Mogg will be elected Tory leader to replace her before the transition period ends at the end of December 2020 (the main difference of May's deal probably to ensure that transition period takes place)
    Oh I am sure she will be replaced long before the next scheduled election regardless, but if there are enough people angry enough at Brexit to at least say they will vote Corbyn in protest (even though he won't change the Brexit outcome) or stay at home, and that materialises to at least a small degree (which is all it would take), I don't see them coming back, say, because Javid the Betrayer of Chequers who backed May's deal, and I don't see how if this Brexit path continues that the MPs let a Rees Mogg type take over.

    Boris has had his day.
    The ongoing exposure of Brexiter mendacity is one of the few net benefits of Brexit. History will be unkind to Davis and brutal to Boris.

    The jury’s still out on Gove.
    There was a pro-Brexit campaign film before the referendum in which David Davis and Kate Hoey used the fact that they didn't understand how the EU worked as an argument to leave.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    How much more tragedy do they have to suffer?

    It's quite remarkable in an age of multi-millionaire sportsmen we still have part-timers and amateurs risking their lives in incredibly dangerous races for little fame or reward.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
    No, he is saying they have had enough of a subset of experts and is shouted down mid sentence. Your point is on a primary school playground level of silliness.
    It's equivalent to Boris Johnson's "F*** business". He obviously doesn't mean all business but just those businesses that are frustrating his plans. The fact that he qualifies it does not make it illegitimate to shorten it to the sound-bite.
    Um, they way you have described it it very much would make it unreasonable however (at least for anyone not indulging in political spin like an opposition are expected to do) - if you are knowingly pretending they are saying something they did not say, that's nonsense. We see it all the time (in fairness Corbyn himself has on occasion been on the receiving end of this) where opponents go 'X said Y, which really means Z, which is terrible'. Truncating someone's words to make it a more extreme point than was the case is misrepresentation of that person. Sure, if someone is careless enough to give the impression of a more extreme point that is partly on them, but it doesn't make it true to suggest that false impression is true.

    From reports I thought the Boris quote was him being a silly fool, but from your words I now know that he was being a silly fool, but people are misrepresenting the extent of that foolishness. So now I am inclined to go easier on him.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    Amazing from Gove. I wonder if he blushes when he watches it. He ought to be horse-whipped.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.

    As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.

    The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
    Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
    Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.

    The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
    But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.

    We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
    It is beginning to be a matter of serious concern to me that the UK, having voted to leave the EU, may find itself trapped. No doubt many of our people would rejoice at that outcome.

    What is such a serious concern is that, if our attempt to leave fails, the EU demonstrates itself to be a deadly embrace. Any other country whose citizens decided it must leave would know in advance it cannot be done via peaceful negotiation.

    Good evening, everyone.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.

    Action replay now taking place.

    Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.

    The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.

    I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?

    If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
    I agree the two issues are not a great comparison, although whether it will be as destructive as some think I am uncertain on. I think it more likely Con will take a hit enough to definitely lose the next election, without being demolished.
    If it looks like May will take a hit so badly because of her EU deal she will lose to Corbyn due to Tory voters staying at home or going to UKIP Boris or Rees Mogg will be elected Tory leader to replace her before the transition period ends at the end of December 2020 (the main difference of May's deal probably to ensure that transition period takes place)
    Oh I am sure she will be replaced long before the next scheduled election regardless, but if there are enough people angry enough at Brexit to at least say they will vote Corbyn in protest (even though he won't change the Brexit outcome) or stay at home, and that materialises to at least a small degree (which is all it would take), I don't see them coming back, say, because Javid the Betrayer of Chequers who backed May's deal, and I don't see how if this Brexit path continues that the MPs let a Rees Mogg type take over.

    Boris has had his day.
    Oh no if Tory Leave voters are staying at home or moving to UKIP or even Corbyn Labour Tory members will cry out for Boris and Rees Mogg and MPs who want to keep their seats will do so too.
    Beyond the ideologues most MPs want to keep their jobs and to be extremely cynical would rather 15% unemployment and hard Brexit if they were re elected than 4% unemployment and soft Brexit if they lost their seats.

    Boris sees himself as Churchill coming back from the wilderness to May's Chamberlain anyway
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Even supposing she doesn't fire them if they break the pact, how can any of them be trusted if they do so? They were publicly confirmed to support this position, a final position, only by claiming idiocy can they now say they do not, in fact, support it as it is not what they thought it was, or they now see the light about its awfulness.

    It does seem telling though if they have all been quiet. Having been associated with it as a united Cabinet, not being supportive of it right away smacks of waiting to see the reaction of the ERG crowd, and any sudden poll movements perhaps, so they can indeed back out.

    But I don't see how anyone who was in that room and emerged from it still in the Cabinet after agreeing this deal, can repudiate it and have any credibility as a leadership candidate ever again, so any challenge to May would need to coalesce around someone like Rees Mogg.
    "The Pact" will not survive first contact with the EU. At which point, all Brexiteers will vocally say "told yer...." May can't fire them all for that...at which point, they can expan their arguments and she has lost.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    Amazing from Gove. I wonder if he blushes when he watches it. He ought to be horse-whipped.
    I don’t think that Faisal is given nearly enough credit in Leave’s victory. His performance was pivotal to my mind.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922

    Scott_P said:

    Gove is on Marr tomorrow.

    Will he give Brexiteers the Boris treatment?

    "People in this country have had enough of Remainers." :lol:
    Corrected it for you :lol:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
    No, he is saying they have had enough of a subset of experts and is shouted down mid sentence. Your point is on a primary school playground level of silliness.
    It's equivalent to Boris Johnson's "F*** business". He obviously doesn't mean all business but just those businesses that are frustrating his plans. The fact that he qualifies it does not make it illegitimate to shorten it to the sound-bite.
    Um, they way you have described it it very much would make it unreasonable however (at least for anyone not indulging in political spin like an opposition are expected to do) - if you are knowingly pretending they are saying something they did not say, that's nonsense. We see it all the time (in fairness Corbyn himself has on occasion been on the receiving end of this) where opponents go 'X said Y, which really means Z, which is terrible'. Truncating someone's words to make it a more extreme point than was the case is misrepresentation of that person. Sure, if someone is careless enough to give the impression of a more extreme point that is partly on them, but it doesn't make it true to suggest that false impression is true.

    From reports I thought the Boris quote was him being a silly fool, but from your words I now know that he was being a silly fool, but people are misrepresenting the extent of that foolishness. So now I am inclined to go easier on him.
    To be clear I’ve not seen an exact quote of what Boris said. I’m just inferring his meaning.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.

    Action replay now taking place.

    Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.

    The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.

    I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?

    If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
    Gay Marriage wasn't in the 2010 Tory manifesto, it was Cameron's personal initiative.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340

    Sean_F said:

    Will the final be England v France.

    I would like to think so.
    Still hoping for England v Belgium - the Brexit final
    France would be better as you could have a chant along the lines of, "six major naval battles and one world cup," if we managed to beat them.
    AnneJGP said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.

    As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.

    The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
    Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
    Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.

    The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
    But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.

    We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
    It is beginning to be a matter of serious concern to me that the UK, having voted to leave the EU, may find itself trapped. No doubt many of our people would rejoice at that outcome.

    What is such a serious concern is that, if our attempt to leave fails, the EU demonstrates itself to be a deadly embrace. Any other country whose citizens decided it must leave would know in advance it cannot be done via peaceful negotiation.

    Good evening, everyone.
    The problem is not that it is hard to leave the EU but that that the Leave campaign mislead the electorate on both what could be achieved and how easy it would be to leave. It isn’t surprising that disentangling ourselves from a political and economic union we have been been a member of for 45 years is non-trivial
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited July 2018
    AnneJGP said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.

    As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.

    The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
    Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
    Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.

    The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
    But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.

    We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
    It is beginning to be a matter of serious concern to me that the UK, having voted to leave the EU, may find itself trapped. No doubt many of our people would rejoice at that outcome.

    What is such a serious concern is that, if our attempt to leave fails, the EU demonstrates itself to be a deadly embrace. Any other country whose citizens decided it must leave would know in advance it cannot be done via peaceful negotiation.

    Good evening, everyone.
    Except this is not true.
    The choice is ours in terms of whether to engage like Norway, as a member of the EEA, or perhaps like Switzerland, via bilateral arrangements. Both options are still open to us, as is a full withdrawal to WTO.

    Obviously what we can’t do is pretend the EU doesn’t exist. This “deadly embrace” is toddler tantrum stuff.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Croatian goalie appears to be in some trouble with a hamstring.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Serbian goalie "crocked".....maybe.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    dr_spyn said:

    Croatian goalie appears to be in some trouble with a hamstring.

    I wondered if they had used all their subs and have to wait for extra time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    dodrade said:

    How much more tragedy do they have to suffer?

    It's quite remarkable in an age of multi-millionaire sportsmen we still have part-timers and amateurs risking their lives in incredibly dangerous races for little fame or reward.
    Yep, these guys are gladiators.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Re the Three Lions video in the header: "that tackle by Moore" was against Jairzinho not Pele. The Banks save was from Pele. Here is 90 seconds of Bobby Moore in that Brazil game, including that tackle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75vph68v9og
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited July 2018
    dr_spyn said:

    Croatian goalie appears to be in some trouble with a hamstring.

    I can sympathise. Been in real pain for the last few weeks and following a knee x ray have been diagosed with strained hamstrings and am on daily ice packs and ibuprofen gel. It is very debilitating and mine are only strained
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Sandpit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I wonder if any weddings had football loving organists playing for them today.

    found this on youtube 3 Lions from Christ Church College, Oxford. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnS1sTCy1ZU

    You know it's become A Thing when this happens:

    ttps://twitter.com/richardbannan/status/1015174995037868032
    Does anyone have footage of organists or ceremonial guards playing World in Motion?
    Yep. I'm an organist (one of at least two here, evidently) and I'm intending to improvise on World in Motion at tomorrow's service. You're welcome to come and film if you like.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
    No, he is saying they have had enough of a subset of experts and is shouted down mid sentence. Your point is on a primary school playground level of silliness.
    It's equivalent to Boris Johnson's "F*** business". He obviously doesn't mean all business but just those businesses that are frustrating his plans. The fact that he qualifies it does not make it illegitimate to shorten it to the sound-bite.
    No, not a parallel. Johnson said fick business as a complete sentence. The proper analogy would be if Johnson had said "I don't like businesses which bully their staff and defraud the taxman" and Islam had jumped in before "which" and said oooh! He doesn't like businesses! He doesn't like businesses!

    Not that I have any skin in the game (I cast the most unenthusiastic remain vote in the entire country because my unenfranchised son asked me too) but I am puzzled that you seem so convinced of the rightness of your cause but shore it up with such embarrassingly feeble arguments. And you can frot away as much as you like about that interview but you are sort of missing the point which is that, as DavidL suggests, it probably swung it for leave.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Great.....30 more minutes of this.......

    If England can't beat either of these sides, they should probably walk into the Kremlin and ask for asylum.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited July 2018
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    Amazing from Gove. I wonder if he blushes when he watches it. He ought to be horse-whipped.
    I don’t think that Faisal is given nearly enough credit in Leave’s victory. His performance was pivotal to my mind.
    but Gove sounds like a moron. 'My Dad was a fisherman you know and the EU cost him dear that's how I know'. If that's the level of his argument we should owe Faisal a debt of gratitude for exposing the humbug. As it happens the audience seemed to have already made up their minds.

    But I'd be surprised if politics students aren't pondering for decades to come why such a senior politician was allowed to get away with such distortion immediately before a crucial referendum.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
    No, he is saying they have had enough of a subset of experts and is shouted down mid sentence. Your point is on a primary school playground level of silliness.
    It's equivalent to Boris Johnson's "F*** business". He obviously doesn't mean all business but just those businesses that are frustrating his plans. The fact that he qualifies it does not make it illegitimate to shorten it to the sound-bite.
    No, not a parallel. Johnson said fick business as a complete sentence. The proper analogy would be if Johnson had said "I don't like businesses which bully their staff and defraud the taxman" and Islam had jumped in before "which" and said oooh! He doesn't like businesses! He doesn't like businesses!

    Not that I have any skin in the game (I cast the most unenthusiastic remain vote in the entire country because my unenfranchised son asked me too) but I am puzzled that you seem so convinced of the rightness of your cause but shore it up with such embarrassingly feeble arguments. And you can frot away as much as you like about that interview but you are sort of missing the point which is that, as DavidL suggests, it probably swung it for leave.
    Condescending, patronising, arrogant, ignorant, it really ticked every box and reminded hundreds of thousands what sort of shits had known better than us about how to run our country for the last 40 years. It may just have been the difference.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Great.....30 more minutes of this.......

    If England can't beat either of these sides, they should probably walk into the Kremlin and ask for asylum.

    Both sides spent the last half hour looking like they were just playing for penalties. They’ll probably spend the next half hour doing the same.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited July 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Johnson said fick business as a complete sentence.

    How do you know?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    This is a turgid game....quite happy for them to play for as long as possible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited July 2018
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA

    What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
    Amazing from Gove. I wonder if he blushes when he watches it. He ought to be horse-whipped.
    I don’t think that Faisal is given nearly enough credit in Leave’s victory. His performance was pivotal to my mind.
    but Gove sounds like a moron. 'My Dad was a fisherman you know and the EU cost him dear that's how I know'. If that's the level of his argument we should owe Faisal a debt of gratitude for exposing the humbug. As it happens the audience seemed to have already made up their minds.

    But I'd be surprised if politics students aren't still pondering why such a senior politician was allowed to get away with such distortion immediately before a crucial referendum.
    I know the Scottish Fishing Community well as most of my wife's family have been fishermen and you seem to have no idea how angry the Fishing Community in Scotland is against the EU. Indeed that is why so many of them have Scottish Conservative MP's
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2018

    Great.....30 more minutes of this.......

    If England can't beat either of these sides, they should probably walk into the Kremlin and ask for asylum.

    Dont tempt fate! Croatia have a lot of potential - and as we have seen often in this tournament so far a team can be spectacular one match and poor the next. And If it's Russia they have home advantage,

    PS Looks like a police office has been hospitalised in Amesbury according to Sky in a case apparently linked to this week's incident.

    https://news.sky.com/story/police-officer-seeks-treatment-after-amesbury-nerve-agent-attack-11429681
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    Great.....30 more minutes of this.......

    If England can't beat either of these sides, they should probably walk into the Kremlin and ask for asylum.

    I think Croatia have looked quite good. Modric in particular.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.

    As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.

    The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
    Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
    Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.

    The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
    But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.

    We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
    I am not predicting, simply noting it as a route out of this mess.

    The terms we leave on ultimately come down to Mrs May’s willingness to eat FOM in exchange for privileged access to the single market. It’s as simple as that.
    It depends how theological the EU want to be but, logically, FOM should be a dealbreaker for services but not goods.
    Why ? "The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the "four freedoms" – within the European Union (EU)."

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    edited July 2018
    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    rkrkrk said:

    Great.....30 more minutes of this.......

    If England can't beat either of these sides, they should probably walk into the Kremlin and ask for asylum.

    I think Croatia have looked quite good. Modric in particular.
    Their players are going down like 9 pins
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Few Croatia bookings of players already on yellows wouldn't go amiss.
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183

    Re the Three Lions video in the header: "that tackle by Moore" was against Jairzinho not Pele. The Banks save was from Pele. Here is 90 seconds of Bobby Moore in that Brazil game, including that tackle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75vph68v9og

    yes magnificent tackle
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    What a knob! Rees Mogg pondering in front of the cameras what his next move should be!

    He projects an image that must make 90% of Tories cringe
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    How about an England-France final?

    England win 2-1 and Jezza unilaterally gives everyone the day off on Monday week.

    We can dare to dream.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Croatia score
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Few Croatia bookings of players already on yellows wouldn't go amiss.

    They wipe all the yellows after this round. Crying Gazza can’t happen any more.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Croatia! Saw that in slow motion!
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Looks like penalties might not be needed.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Goal Croatia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    At first I thought TMay had managed to find the crap yet miracle deal everyone would grudgingly accept, as being tolerably better than even worse alternatives.

    Now I have severe doubts. The EU *should* say Yes immediately (it's great for them) yet I can see them overplaying their hand, asking for more, and crashing it.

    And lots and lots of Tory activists and members are going to hate it. And they will tell their MPs.

    Chance of No Deal must now be near 50%?


    I think you are spot on, it is up to the EU now to see sense
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2018
    Sandpit said:

    Few Croatia bookings of players already on yellows wouldn't go amiss.

    They wipe all the yellows after this round. Crying Gazza can’t happen any more.
    If you are already on a yellow and get booked in this game you miss the semi.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited July 2018
    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    At first I thought TMay had managed to find the crap yet miracle deal everyone would grudgingly accept, as being tolerably better than even worse alternatives.

    Now I have severe doubts. The EU *should* say Yes immediately (it's great for them) yet I can see them overplaying their hand, asking for more, and crashing it.

    And lots and lots of Tory activists and members are going to hate it. And they will tell their MPs.

    Chance of No Deal must now be near 50%?


    Nobody gives a flying fuck. We are in the semis and no-one gives a crap about soft Brexit.

    As I forecast.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Anazina said:

    How about an England-France final?

    England win 2-1 and Jezza unilaterally gives everyone the day off on Monday week.

    We can dare to dream.

    England beating France in the World Cup Final is a TSE and hard Brexiteers wet dream!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
    They’ve used their 4th sub. If Russia equalise they are stuck with him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    All those PEDs seem to have worn off.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    At first I thought TMay had managed to find the crap yet miracle deal everyone would grudgingly accept, as being tolerably better than even worse alternatives.

    Now I have severe doubts. The EU *should* say Yes immediately (it's great for them) yet I can see them overplaying their hand, asking for more, and crashing it.

    And lots and lots of Tory activists and members are going to hate it. And they will tell their MPs.

    Chance of No Deal must now be near 50%?


    Nobody gives a flying fuck. We are in the semis and no-one gives a crap about soft Brexit.

    As I forecast.
    The World Cup ends next Sunday. Brexit will go on for a while longer!

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    brendan16 said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    At first I thought TMay had managed to find the crap yet miracle deal everyone would grudgingly accept, as being tolerably better than even worse alternatives.

    Now I have severe doubts. The EU *should* say Yes immediately (it's great for them) yet I can see them overplaying their hand, asking for more, and crashing it.

    And lots and lots of Tory activists and members are going to hate it. And they will tell their MPs.

    Chance of No Deal must now be near 50%?


    Nobody gives a flying fuck. We are in the semis and no-one gives a crap about soft Brexit.

    As I forecast.
    The World Cup ends next Sunday. Brexit will go on for a while longer!

    Nobody cares anymore.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    surby said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.

    As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.

    The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
    Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
    Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.

    The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
    But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.

    We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
    I am not predicting, simply noting it as a route out of this mess.

    The terms we leave on ultimately come down to Mrs May’s willingness to eat FOM in exchange for privileged access to the single market. It’s as simple as that.
    It depends how theological the EU want to be but, logically, FOM should be a dealbreaker for services but not goods.
    Why ? "The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the "four freedoms" – within the European Union (EU)."

    Except we don't have as much of some as others, and we basically invested capital in the 1980s.

    Something like 80% of goods are traded under common standards, whereas it's 2% for services.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
    Modric is worth looking at for the Golden Ball if Croatia get through this, especially if (as expected) they lose to England in the semi.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Johnson said fick business as a complete sentence.

    How do you know?
    Widespread and apparently credible reports not denied by Johnson.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Few Croatia bookings of players already on yellows wouldn't go amiss.

    They wipe all the yellows after this round. Crying Gazza can’t happen any more.
    If you are already on a yellow and get booked in this game you miss the semi.
    I read that rule as saying that you couldn’t miss the semi or the final, but on further digging it appears you’re right. So let’s hope Croatia win and the match finishes with a massive brawl ;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Few Croatia bookings of players already on yellows wouldn't go amiss.

    They wipe all the yellows after this round. Crying Gazza can’t happen any more.
    If you are already on a yellow and get booked in this game you miss the semi.
    I read that rule as saying that you couldn’t miss the semi or the final, but on further digging it appears you’re right. So let’s hope Croatia win and the match finishes with a massive brawl ;)
    I know they have done it so unless you get sent off you can’t miss the final, but seems like they should reset them earlier or 3 yellows for a ban (and no reset).
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    edited July 2018

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
    Modric is worth looking at for the Golden Ball if Croatia get through this, especially if (as expected) they lose to England in the semi.
    Got on him at 10-1 before the game. My picks are Modric, de Bruyne and Mbappe (because tissue price tips are worth following).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
    They’ve used their 4th sub. If Russia equalise they are stuck with him.
    Ah, so they’d need to use one of the 10 men already on the pitch as the goalie.
    Forgive me, it’s after midnight in the sandpit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
    They’ve used their 4th sub. If Russia equalise they are stuck with him.
    Ah, so they’d need to use one of the 10 men already on the pitch as the goalie.
    Forgive me, it’s after midnight in the sandpit.
    May not be a problem. Russia look knackered.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Johnson said fick business as a complete sentence.

    How do you know?
    Widespread and apparently credible reports not denied by Johnson.
    Johnson said he was talking about "some of those who profess to speak up for business".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Oh yes.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Russian equaliser.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Amazing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Croatia deciding to have three defenders not marking anyone with 5 minutes left in extra time. Interesting tactic.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    I thought Brazil were out already?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    SeanT said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh yes.

    Oh no. I'd rather face Croatia than Russia on this massive home advantage high, and with a referee terrified of polonium poisoning.
    The goalkeeper decision may now prove critical.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2018
    Incredible play by Russia. It seemed inevitable they'd get an equaliser.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    At first I thought TMay had managed to find the crap yet miracle deal everyone would grudgingly accept, as being tolerably better than even worse alternatives.

    Now I have severe doubts. The EU *should* say Yes immediately (it's great for them) yet I can see them overplaying their hand, asking for more, and crashing it.

    And lots and lots of Tory activists and members are going to hate it. And they will tell their MPs.

    Chance of No Deal must now be near 50%?


    Nobody gives a flying fuck. We are in the semis and no-one gives a crap about soft Brexit.

    As I forecast.
    Why do you assume no one will give a crap about it after the world cup has ended. In politics things unravel over time.
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    that's Russia through he cant save any penalties he can hardly move
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    At first I thought TMay had managed to find the crap yet miracle deal everyone would grudgingly accept, as being tolerably better than even worse alternatives.

    Now I have severe doubts. The EU *should* say Yes immediately (it's great for them) yet I can see them overplaying their hand, asking for more, and crashing it.

    And lots and lots of Tory activists and members are going to hate it. And they will tell their MPs.

    Chance of No Deal must now be near 50%?


    I think you are spot on, it is up to the EU now to see sense
    Whether they see sense or just accept some more pragmatism to make it work somehow despite being unacceptable in its current form, it is down to them - May is no doubt telling the EU this is as good as it gets from her, that she cannot do better, and I don't think they believe that to be the case, but she is probably not bluffing about that. Further concessions may not be possible even if May would be prepared to do that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    So Croatia are going into a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who has damaged his hamstring. Interesting. In a slightly delusional kind of way.

    Surely they’ll sub him at the last minute if he’s genuinely injured. Or maybe he’ll do a Bruce Grobbelaar.
    Edit: could be moot now. Croatia score.
    They’ve used their 4th sub. If Russia equalise they are stuck with him.
    Ah, so they’d need to use one of the 10 men already on the pitch as the goalie.
    Forgive me, it’s after midnight in the sandpit.
    May not be a problem. Russia look knackered.
    You were saying?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Some more booking please :-)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Made a tidy sum trading off the highs and lows of Croatia and Russia on Betfair the last 20 minutes.
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