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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another day goes by and still 48 CON MPs have not sent letters

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited July 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another day goes by and still 48 CON MPs have not sent letters demanding a TMay confidence ballot

Since the Conservative Party introduced its new leadership roles while William Hague was in charge the procedure for getting rid of the incumbent has only been used once. That was, of course, the ousting of Iain Duncan Smith in October 2003.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    Theresa May hang on till the next election
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    I thought you wanted the result implemented ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Veni vidi Brexi.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited July 2018
    Mad Nad on DP telling us that May was absolutely fine, save for the Sword Of Dorriecles hanging by a hair above her head.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    edited July 2018

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    What will they do if the EU's response is something like this?

    "This will be a good basis for negotiations. Here's your political declaration about an Association Agreement. See you on the other side."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    Does the EU even need to respond? The May proposal is effectively off the table, so why respond to something that doesn't exist.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    And May is trying to make sure the MPs are on holiday by the time she responds to that response.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    My favourite quote this week was the source who claimed the whips were sitting on “between 30 and 45 letters”.

    30 letters, big deal.
    45 letters, oh fuck.

    I suspect it is closer to the former.
    The problem is the Tory MPs are now split between Hard and Soft, and to oust May you really need a viable candidate who might appeal to both. This doesn’t look possible.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited July 2018
    Sir John:

    No less eight than eight polls wholly or partly about Brexit have been conducted since the Cabinet gathered at Chequers last Friday week (6 July). Both the statement about Brexit that was issued at the end of that meeting and the white paper published the subsequent Thursday have received a critical response in some quarters, including not least amongst many who campaigned to Leave. But how have the public have reacted?

    Here are four key points that now seem clear.

    1.The Chequers agreement is relatively unpopular among Leave voters.

    2.The Chequers agreement has undermined confidence in the government’s handling of Brexit – and especially so among leave voters

    3.Chequers has undermined the association in voters’ minds between the Conservatives and a hard Brexit.

    4.Voters have not changed their minds about the merits of Remain vs. Leave or a hard versus a soft Brexit.


    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/why-chequers-has-gone-wrong-for-theresa-may/
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    I speak not to disprove what Alistair spoke,
    But here I am to speak what I do know
    You all did love her once, not without really good polling data:
    What cause withholds you then, to mourn for her?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Why would the ERG want to ditch May now ?

    She swallowed all their amendments to Chequers whole !
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Pulpstar said:

    Why would the ERG want to ditch May now ?

    She swallowed all their amendments to Chequers whole !

    That was so last week. Would you bet a significant sum on her taking the same line next week?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    Has it not been opened since 1922? :lol:
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    Nah, they'll probably not bother.
    They need to enjoy their holidays.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    My recollection with IDS is that the polls were within an inch of the Tories slipping behind the Lib Dems into third place, so the runes were easier to read and the Quiet Man had to go. It's not completely obvious that Theresa will poll worse than any replacement.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669

    Theresa May hang on till the next election

    Is there a comma missing after the second word?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Pulpstar said:

    Why would the ERG want to ditch May now ?

    She swallowed all their amendments to Chequers whole !

    That was so last week. Would you bet a significant sum on her taking the same line next week?
    No, I'm staying out of this market ! I think the trouble starts when Barnier dit 'Non'.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Just heard a comedienne say 'I can't see a reason why you would interview someone in your hotel room unless the job is cleaning hotel rooms'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    edited July 2018

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Everyone thought May was going to do that, but the Tory Remainers couldn't Caesar when they had the chance.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    rcs1000 said:

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    Does the EU even need to respond? The May proposal is effectively off the table, so why respond to something that doesn't exist.
    Yes , they could mark and return T Mays dissertation.

    Would be polite to do so.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    I thought you wanted the result implemented ?
    We seem to be approaching a crux point. Leave is in more danger than it has been since the night of the referendum.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    rcs1000 said:

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    Does the EU even need to respond? The May proposal is effectively off the table, so why respond to something that doesn't exist.
    Is the reason the EU hasn't responded, I presume. They are waiting for the govt to get its act together and present them with a proposal that has been agreed on and is unlikely to change.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Theresa May hang on till the next election

    Is there a comma missing after the second word?
    No, it's what's called a pun, logical_song :)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Is there any Tory who actually wants to replace May as PM at the moment, as opposed to after Brexit day ? I have my doubts.

    And how many want an election anytime soon ?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    They're waiting for Boris's resignation speech. Then they'll all pile in
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    Does the EU even need to respond? The May proposal is effectively off the table, so why respond to something that doesn't exist.
    Is the reason the EU hasn't responded, I presume. They are waiting for the govt to get its act together and present them with a proposal that has been agreed on and is unlikely to change.
    It'll be the amended Chequers agreement won't it ?

    The SNP have incorporated some amendments too so it's not all gone the ERGs way ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Nigelb said:

    Is there any Tory who actually wants to replace May as PM at the moment, as opposed to after Brexit day ?

    Boris ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    An 'undeniable gravitas' ?
    Unless it's a reference to his avoirdupois...
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Roger said:

    They're waiting for Boris's resignation speech. Then they'll all pile in

    Cometh the hour cometh the man.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    Nigelb said:

    Is there any Tory who actually wants to replace May as PM at the moment, as opposed to after Brexit day ? I have my doubts.

    TSE?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    If he wasn't his grandson he wouldn't have such a high profile pulpit and might well never have become an MP either.

    I am not sure that his comments carry more weight just because his grandad helped to save civilisation. We continue to have too many politicos and other elites who prosper and are assisted in advancing because of who their dad or grandad or more was. Perhaps if the remain campaign had not been led by the son of a former foreign secretary but by someone who had come from nowt and all that......

    Every party has infringed EC rules at some point - some technical some more serious. No one is suggesting the results of previous general elections be set aside because of those. Some might even say that in a democracy you should be free to spend your cash as you wish to fund campaigns as you wish not have them restricted by unelected officials...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    If the 48 vote trigger was hit during the recess, it'd be an absolute administrative nightmare running the election, the rules for which assume that parliament is sitting and MPs are physically present. I think some amendment to the rules would be inevitable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
    But that was obi one thing he said among many.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    If the 48 vote trigger was hit during the recess, it'd be an absolute administrative nightmare running the election, the rules for which assume that parliament is sitting and MPs are physically present. I think some amendment to the rules would be inevitable.
    Could Graham Brady just stop opening his mail until the recess is over? :)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
    Oh I agree with your point. I’ve been consistent in believing the referendum result was a catastrophe for Britain from which it will take decades to recover, however things go forward from here.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The MPs are holding on until the EU responds. And then waiting to see May's response to that response....

    It's all timing.

    Does the EU even need to respond? The May proposal is effectively off the table, so why respond to something that doesn't exist.
    Is the reason the EU hasn't responded, I presume. They are waiting for the govt to get its act together and present them with a proposal that has been agreed on and is unlikely to change.
    It'll be the amended Chequers agreement won't it ?

    The SNP have incorporated some amendments too so it's not all gone the ERGs way ;)
    I suppose so. But I'm not sure when it is formally submitted. I'm not sure the amended document will have been pre-approved by Brussels but then again all involved must have known that amendments were likely.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    edited July 2018

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
    "Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?"
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    brendan16 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    If he wasn't his grandson he wouldn't have such a high profile pulpit and might well never have become an MP either.

    I am not sure that his comments carry more weight just because his grandad helped to save civilisation. We continue to have too many politicos and other elites who prosper and are assisted in advancing because of who their dad or grandad or more was. Perhaps if the remain campaign had not been led by the son of a former foreign secretary but by someone who had come from nowt and all that......

    Every party has infringed EC rules at some point - some technical some more serious. No one is suggesting the results of previous general elections be set aside because of those. Some might even say that in a democracy you should be free to spend your cash as you wish to fund campaigns as you wish not have them restricted by unelected officials...
    I think everything to do with Soames carries a lot of weight...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    brendan16 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    If he wasn't his grandson he wouldn't have such a high profile pulpit and might well never have become an MP either.

    I am not sure that his comments carry more weight just because his grandad helped to save civilisation. We continue to have too many politicos and other elites who prosper and are assisted in advancing because of who their dad or grandad or more was. Perhaps if the remain campaign had not been led by the son of a former foreign secretary but by someone who had come from nowt and all that......

    Every party has infringed EC rules at some point - some technical some more serious. No one is suggesting the results of previous general elections be set aside because of those. Some might even say that in a democracy you should be free to spend your cash as you wish to fund campaigns as you wish not have them restricted by unelected officials...
    This of course was the criticism (certainly my criticism) of the Cons for the past eight years. Instead of appointing yet another Etonian to some cabinet post, could they really not have found a bright, ambitious MP from Worksop for the same position?

    Someone like Neil O'Brien, for example.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Brom said:

    brendan16 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    If he wasn't his grandson he wouldn't have such a high profile pulpit and might well never have become an MP either.

    I am not sure that his comments carry more weight just because his grandad helped to save civilisation. We continue to have too many politicos and other elites who prosper and are assisted in advancing because of who their dad or grandad or more was. Perhaps if the remain campaign had not been led by the son of a former foreign secretary but by someone who had come from nowt and all that......

    Every party has infringed EC rules at some point - some technical some more serious. No one is suggesting the results of previous general elections be set aside because of those. Some might even say that in a democracy you should be free to spend your cash as you wish to fund campaigns as you wish not have them restricted by unelected officials...
    I think everything to do with Soames carries a lot of weight...
    Notably apart, of course, from one area.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    If the 48 vote trigger was hit during the recess, it'd be an absolute administrative nightmare running the election, the rules for which assume that parliament is sitting and MPs are physically present. I think some amendment to the rules would be inevitable.
    Could Graham Brady just stop opening his mail until the recess is over? :)
    There is a good argument for him spending six weeks in the middle of Greenland.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    If the 48 vote trigger was hit during the recess, it'd be an absolute administrative nightmare running the election, the rules for which assume that parliament is sitting and MPs are physically present. I think some amendment to the rules would be inevitable.
    Could Graham Brady just stop opening his mail until the recess is over? :)
    Deserting his post is a court-martial offence.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Never mind Churchill's grandson: when does Churchill's biographer make his resignation speech?
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    Suspect most* of the Tories’ problems are down to the fact stuff like this needs a letter (on paper? Parchment? Papyrus?), while the real business is being done at 20x the speed on Whatsapp.

    (*OK. Not most. But not sure it helps :))
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    For a firm that likes inverted commas so very much, surprised the top story on the BBC News page is lacking them.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766
    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    For a firm that likes inverted commas so very much, surprised the top story on the BBC News page is lacking them.

    It’s a finding not an allegation.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.’

    - Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    For a firm that likes inverted commas so very much, surprised the top story on the BBC News page is lacking them.

    It’s a finding not an allegation.
    REMAIN "spent more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN "spent" more money than LEAVE.
    REMAIN spent "more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN spent "more" money than LEAVE.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    For a firm that likes inverted commas so very much, surprised the top story on the BBC News page is lacking them.

    It’s a finding not an allegation.
    REMAIN "spent more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN "spent" more money than LEAVE.
    REMAIN spent "more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN spent "more" money than LEAVE.
    Given the complete lack of clarity on what Brexit actually means, how about REMAIN spent more money than "LEAVE"?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
    "Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?"
    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Boris the Foolish?

    I thought not. It's not a story the ERG would tell you.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    RobD said:

    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.

    Preeeeeeetty sure I'd trust the Electoral Commission more than Guido on this one.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    edited July 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    I'd have more respect for Soames if he hadn't blocked me on Twitter for some wholly innocuous comment. It's not like I made fun of his weight or anything.

    In truth, Soames' supposed gravitas comes from nothing more than the weight of his ancestry.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    For a firm that likes inverted commas so very much, surprised the top story on the BBC News page is lacking them.

    It’s a finding not an allegation.
    REMAIN "spent more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN "spent" more money than LEAVE.
    REMAIN spent "more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN spent "more" money than LEAVE.
    Given the complete lack of clarity on what Brexit actually means, how about REMAIN spent more money than "LEAVE"?
    It's the way you tell 'em :lol:
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    Freggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
    "Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?"
    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Boris the Foolish?

    I thought not. It's not a story the ERG would tell you.

    Darth Gideon (aka Chancellor Osborne): Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Smithson "the Wise"?

    TSE: No.

    Darth Gideon: I thought not. It's not a story the LibDems would tell you. It's a Blogging legend. Darth Smithson was a Daft Lord of the Sith who lived many years ago. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create... AV threads. He had such a knowledge of the Daft Side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying from boredom on Thursday Nights.

    TSE: He could do that? He could actually save people from boring themselves to death?

    Darth Gideon: The Daft Side of the Force is a pathway to many policy platforms some consider to be unelectable.

    TSE: What happened to him?

    Darth Gideon: He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then one night, his apprentice wiped his servers' hard drives while he slept. It's ironic that he could save others from obscurity, but not himself.

    TSE: Is it possible to learn this power?

    Darth Gideon: Not from a LibDem...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    The last few days in the HOC has been utterly disgraceful and all MP's, yes all of them, should hang their heads in shame at their collective descent into appalling anger, impatience, and hatred to one another.

    No 10 has gone completely bonkers in suggesting bringing forward the recess, irrespective or not, that the request had come from some labour MP's. I hope they have the sense to withdraw the motion before they receive total humiliation by a comprehensive rejection across the house.

    We have seen the ERG group actively trash business including some of our biggest employers and the remainers using every trick in the book to reverse the referendum including today's incandescent rage over Vote Leave overspending

    I have no idea where this goes but any attempt to crash us onto the rocks by the philosophy of ERG or to manufacture a second referendum by remainers needs to be comprehensively rejected by MP's

    Parliament must accept the damage this is doing to our reputation World wide and how we are belittling ourselves. Parliament as a whole has to get a grip

    I am wholly ashamed of the politicians that are supposed to be acting in the Country's best interests

    A plague on all their houses.

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    edited July 2018

    'king hell
    Tweets like this are infuriating:
    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    Good grief no!!!!!! We already have Police and Crime Commissioners, and a fat lot of good they are. If we had directly elected prime ministers, we would end up simply with the most entertaining one (a term they mistakenly applied to Boris Johnson), or the prettiest (Penny, or Liz, or Owen Jones, all a matter of preference and taste), or the most outrageous (Farage, of course), or whoever Putin wants. So no thank you very much. What we need is competence and honesty and transparency.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    In some cases it appears they didn't even ask.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    They've been slow to get their side of the story out though I think?
    Or is it just that reading about the story on here, I only hear from brexiteers?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    In some cases it appears they didn't even ask.
    Who to believe? The independent regulator tasked with the job or self-serving disingenuous defences from those caught with their hands in the till?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. NorthWales, well, indeed. An edifying spectacle it is not.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    The last few days in the HOC has been utterly disgraceful and all MP's, yes all of them, should hang their heads in shame at their collective descent into appalling anger, impatience, and hatred to one another.

    No 10 has gone completely bonkers in suggesting bringing forward the recess, irrespective or not, that the request had come from some labour MP's. I hope they have the sense to withdraw the motion before they receive total humiliation by a comprehensive rejection across the house.

    We have seen the ERG group actively trash business including some of our biggest employers and the remainers using every trick in the book to reverse the referendum including today's incandescent rage over Vote Leave overspending

    I have no idea where this goes but any attempt to crash us onto the rocks by the philosophy of ERG or to manufacture a second referendum by remainers needs to be comprehensively rejected by MP's

    Parliament must accept the damage this is doing to our reputation World wide and how we are belittling ourselves. Parliament as a whole has to get a grip

    I am wholly ashamed of the politicians that are supposed to be acting in the Country's best interests

    A plague on all their houses.

    Well said
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    I'd have more respect for Soames if he hadn't blocked me on Twitter for some wholly innocuous comment. It's not like I made fun of his weight or anything.

    In truth, Soames' supposed gravitas comes from nothing more than the weight of his ancestry.
    Indeed. Lamarkian Evolution has been thoroughly debunked.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Meeks, some sympathy with that view. But a few years ago it was a choice between believing Nick Griffin or the police. And then we discovered what had been going on in Rotherham. Trust in public bodies is not exactly sky high right now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    PClipp said:

    'king hell
    Tweets like this are infuriating:
    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    Good grief no!!!!!! We already have Police and Crime Commissioners, and a fat lot of good they are. If we had directly elected prime ministers, we would end up simply with the most entertaining one (a term they mistakenly applied to Boris Johnson), or the prettiest (Penny, or Liz, or Owen Jones, all a matter of preference and taste), or the most outrageous (Farage, of course), or whoever Putin wants. So no thank you very much. What we need is competence and honesty and transparency.
    I didn't say that! That was @Nigel_Foremain !

    What I wrote was this:

    ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.’

    - Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    They've been slow to get their side of the story out though I think?
    Or is it just that reading about the story on here, I only hear from brexiteers?
    The latter. Vote Leave have energetically been putting out their disingenuous defence, having done their best throughout the investigation to sabotage it. But the Electoral Commission have made their findings, published them and publicised them to those that wish to listen. But there will always be unhinged Leavers who will refuse to believe Vote Leave could do anything wrong because it campaigned for Leave.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Pulpstar said:

    The last few days in the HOC has been utterly disgraceful and all MP's, yes all of them, should hang their heads in shame at their collective descent into appalling anger, impatience, and hatred to one another.

    No 10 has gone completely bonkers in suggesting bringing forward the recess, irrespective or not, that the request had come from some labour MP's. I hope they have the sense to withdraw the motion before they receive total humiliation by a comprehensive rejection across the house.

    We have seen the ERG group actively trash business including some of our biggest employers and the remainers using every trick in the book to reverse the referendum including today's incandescent rage over Vote Leave overspending

    I have no idea where this goes but any attempt to crash us onto the rocks by the philosophy of ERG or to manufacture a second referendum by remainers needs to be comprehensively rejected by MP's

    Parliament must accept the damage this is doing to our reputation World wide and how we are belittling ourselves. Parliament as a whole has to get a grip

    I am wholly ashamed of the politicians that are supposed to be acting in the Country's best interests

    A plague on all their houses.

    Well said
    I'm not sure that the Commons is capable of taking any decision right now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Looks as though Rashid just dished India.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.’

    - Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947
    Indeed Mr Prasannan. Whilst I do not pretend to know what the great man would think today, I think it is fair that his grandson should suggest that the least worse system should continue to evolve to become as least worst as is humanly possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    I'd have more respect for Soames if he hadn't blocked me on Twitter for some wholly innocuous comment. It's not like I made fun of his weight or anything.

    In truth, Soames' supposed gravitas comes from nothing more than the weight of his ancestry.
    A decent-ish sort, I think, but not over-endowed .......


    ...... with brains.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    I am wholly ashamed of the politicians that are supposed to be acting in the Country's best interests

    I agree. Our system needs a major shakeup to get these spineless time-servers out of Westminster. We could even close Parliament down and do without it because it has contributed nothing useful for nearly two years as they all navel gaze at Brexit or Corbyn.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. F, if we had Enormo-Haddock Voting (EHV) things would be going swimmingly.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    Nigelb said:

    Looks as though Rashid just dished India.

    Apart from re-stating that Cricket is perhaps the most boring "sport" save for golf, I want to reassure PBers that My Tebbit Chip is functioning perfectly :lol:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    Mr. NorthWales, well, indeed. An edifying spectacle it is not.

    Ferrari or Mercedes at the Hockenheinring, Mr.D ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    Nigelb said:

    Looks as though Rashid just dished India.

    Apart from re-stating that Cricket is perhaps the most boring "sport" save for golf, I want to reassure PBers that My Tebbit Chip is functioning perfectly :lol:
    Thats the problem with you scientists - you don't always comprehend art.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    If the 48 vote trigger was hit during the recess, it'd be an absolute administrative nightmare running the election, the rules for which assume that parliament is sitting and MPs are physically present. I think some amendment to the rules would be inevitable.
    That was behind my somewhat flippant question.

    It would also explain why the PM wants a recess now! Fearing something nasty in the Sundays?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Mr. F, if we had Enormo-Haddock Voting (EHV) things would be going swimmingly.

    But if not, who would be on the hook Mr Dancer? ;)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. B, are the markets up yet?

    I always find Hockenheim a bit tricky to remember. It's fairly tight and twisty. Between the top two, I'd guess Mercedes, but I'd perhaps be more tempted by Red Bull.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    17 July 2014 The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombusman found the Commission seriously at fault in the way it considered donations to the Liberal Democrats in 2005. The Commission was responsible for monitoring political parties’ compliance with the laws on receiving and accepting donations. They found that the Commission, in the course of discharging its statutory responsibility, did not make adequate enquiries of the Party, and that its failure to do so was maladministration.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    They've been slow to get their side of the story out though I think?
    Or is it just that reading about the story on here, I only hear from brexiteers?
    The latter. Vote Leave have energetically been putting out their disingenuous defence, having done their best throughout the investigation to sabotage it. But the Electoral Commission have made their findings, published them and publicised them to those that wish to listen. But there will always be unhinged Leavers who will refuse to believe Vote Leave could do anything wrong because it campaigned for Leave.
    That's the first thing though that I have seen addressing the allegation that the EC didn't talk to both sides?

    Ah, but I'm realising that vote Leave decided to jump the gun and get their side of the story out before the report was properly released/ready. Clever.

    Don't get me wrong, it always seemed incredible that an inquiry wouldn't talk to both sides.
    I do think the EC should have called that a lie the day it was said though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    They've been slow to get their side of the story out though I think?
    Or is it just that reading about the story on here, I only hear from brexiteers?
    The latter. Vote Leave have energetically been putting out their disingenuous defence, having done their best throughout the investigation to sabotage it. But the Electoral Commission have made their findings, published them and publicised them to those that wish to listen. But there will always be unhinged Leavers who will refuse to believe Vote Leave could do anything wrong because it campaigned for Leave.
    Which of these statements is true?

    REMAIN "spent more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN "spent" more money than LEAVE.
    REMAIN spent "more money than LEAVE".
    REMAIN spent "more" money than LEAVE.
    REMAIN spent more money than "LEAVE".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002

    Anyone know if the 1922's postbox gets opened when the House is in recess?

    If the 48 vote trigger was hit during the recess, it'd be an absolute administrative nightmare running the election, the rules for which assume that parliament is sitting and MPs are physically present. I think some amendment to the rules would be inevitable.
    That was behind my somewhat flippant question.

    It would also explain why the PM wants a recess now! Fearing something nasty in the Sundays?
    I just do not see anyone else wanting the job, and to be honest anyone who would be better at unlocking the deadlock
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    17 July 2014 The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombusman found the Commission seriously at fault in the way it considered donations to the Liberal Democrats in 2005. The Commission was responsible for monitoring political parties’ compliance with the laws on receiving and accepting donations. They found that the Commission, in the course of discharging its statutory responsibility, did not make adequate enquiries of the Party, and that its failure to do so was maladministration.

    The Lib Dems said it was a result of “human error and failure of process”. However, Bob Posner, the director of political finance at the Electoral Commission, said there were “systemic failures in ensuring that the rules were being followed”.


    “The party and its officers cooperated fully throughout the
    investigation. However, this is an experienced party that failed to
    meet the basic requirements of the law, and cases like this undermine voters’ confidence in our political finance system. This is why we have applied the highest financial penalty available to us.

    “This also highlights why we have been calling on the UK government to make higher sanctioning powers available to us. With millions of pounds being spent by large parties looking to form national governments, a fine of £20,000 is no longer a strong enough deterrent to ensure the rules are properly followed.”
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    According to Guido they didn't even talk to people in Vote Leave before coming to this conclusion.
    Yes, because Vote Leave refuses to speak to them. You’re WAY too gullible.

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1019105258562359296?s=21
    In some cases it appears they didn't even ask.
    "It forced us to use our legal powers" = "omg, we were made to do our job (and what are all these toys doing in my pram)?"
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Pulpstar said:

    'king hell

    Tweets like this are infuriating:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1019203955300159488

    What's Soames being Churchill's grandson got to do with anything at all.

    Because Churchill is the most revered leader we have ever had, and probably ever will have, and an outstanding thinker on our flawed system of democracy. Therefore the fact that his grandson says something as fundamental as this is reason enough to comment. Soames is also quite correct, though the political class will not listen. A new system of representative democracy with a directly elected PM is long overdue.
    That would make our current problems worse, because the people would end sometimes end up electing a PM that did not have the Confidence of the House (which I do not think that May currently has, but she is held in place only because Tory MPs fear that any alternative is worse).

    What is needed is to give constituents more power over their MPs, so that MPs have to develop a closer relationship with their voters, and then perhaps we can move away from MPs being reliant on their party label to get hem elected into safe seats. Introducing a powerful recall mechanism would be one way to do this. Then MPs might have the confidence to assert their constituents will over the PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    Mr. B, are the markets up yet?

    I always find Hockenheim a bit tricky to remember. It's fairly tight and twisty. Between the top two, I'd guess Mercedes, but I'd perhaps be more tempted by Red Bull.

    Winner only on Betfair. Hamilton and Vettel are very similar odds, which seems more or less right given various uncertainties.
    Haven't decided which way to plump, yet.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    Mr. Meeks, but not a police finding. Also, the BBC often uses inverted commas unnecessarily, so I found their absence there interesting.

    The Electoral Commission is the investigating body. This is the finding. Inverted commas would be actively incorrect here.
    How modern is the phenomena of always calling into question the integrity of an organisation if you don't like the story? I am sure it has always been there to some extent, hence the phrase "shooting the messenger". The big problem for society now is that even intelligent people such as contributors to PB immediately want to see bias where there isn't any.

    There is nothing that is completely absent of all bias as all organisations are made up of human beings, but there are three institutions that we in Britain should genuinely be proud of their fundamental fairness; the judiciary, the civil service and the BBC. Sadly all three have been viciously attacked by the brexit militias. It tells you all you need to know about those that wrap themselves in the union flag.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    SeanT said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Ides of May have come. But not gone.

    Et tu, Alistair?

    So unfortunately does not die Brexit.
    We come not to praise Brexit but to bury it.
    Appropriate reference. Caesar and his methods were truly buried weren't they? As he later said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
    Oh I agree with your point. I’ve been consistent in believing the referendum result was a catastrophe for Britain from which it will take decades to recover, however things go forward from here.
    Point of order: the Roman Empire probably reached its apogee, geopolitically, architecturally, and culturally, soon after Caesar's assassination, under his great nephew, adopted son, and nominated successor, Augustus....
    Trajan.
This discussion has been closed.