Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.
Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.
.
I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.
I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.
PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.
A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.
Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
Thornberry has a bit more gravitas than Long Bailey I will give her that but she is too centrist for Corbynistas, not anti Brexit enough for 'People's Voters' and still too leftwing for Tory swing voters
She has never struck me as in any way leftwing, it’s more that she has been able to remain within the Corbynite tent, and has a very rich leftie constituency and a gigantic majority.
She is left liberal, see her St George's flag comments
Someone choosing to cover their house in flags doesn't mean they are a bellend. What do you care what someone else chooses to do with their house?
That said I think Ed M overreacted to the storm when he sacked her over it.
I think it’s a fair indicator of bellendry. If any of my neighbours did that, I think them completely inconsiderate. Wouldn’t you?
But would you sneer at them publicly?
And then expect millions like them to vote for you?
Are there millions like them? What a depressing thought
Probably hundreds of thousands.
But the probability of you encountering any is pretty small, so don’t worry too much
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner. Compared to the Isreali leader corbyn has been walking with angels.
I watched ITV News at Ten last night, and they had this well down the running order. They also managed the impressive feat of managing not to mention once that the Prime Minister of Israel had a go at the Leader of the Opposition. Quite astounding.
The BBC also had this well down the order.
I could see a case for perhaps having it behind the Turkish economy in precedence, but nothing else. As I asked yesterday, does fake news include not reporting something for hours (BBC yesterday), or giving a cursory glance to something that deserves at least equal standing with the days of outraged shrieking that accompanied Boris' comments?
When did the Leader of the Opposition getting caught out with inconsistencies (to be polite) about laying a wreath at a terrorist grave and getting into a spat with the head of government of another country become less important than a backbencher with leadership aspirations being obnoxious about niqabs and burqs?
Corbyn makes me feel sick in the pit of my stomach. That feeling has got worse over time, such that I loathe him even more than I loathed Brown, and that's saying something. Even Labour voters think this IMHO/.
Brown is a giant compared to Corbyn. Brown's main undoing was his unfettered ambition, which caused him to scheme and plot for a job that he was fairly unsuited for. But he was fairly moral.
It's becoming clear that Corbyn is utterly immoral. He has spent so long believing that he knows what is right, that he has allowed himself to veer over into what is wrong and immorality. But it's fine, he and his supports say, because he *knows* he is moral and right.
Telling yourself and others that you are moral (e.g. "I am an anti-racist") means nothing. What matters are actions, and Corbyn's actions turn his words into a lie.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Corbyn makes me feel sick in the pit of my stomach. That feeling has got worse over time, such that I loathe him even more than I loathed Brown, and that's saying something. Even Labour voters think this IMHO/.
Brown is a giant compared to Corbyn. Brown's main undoing was his unfettered ambition, which caused him to scheme and plot for a job that he was fairly unsuited for. But he was fairly moral.
Sadly Boris doesn't even have that redeeming feature.
Very few people I mix with on a daily basis have heard or know about this. Those that do seem to think it's along the lines of "what do you expect?".
I'd need a lot of convincing before I thought this was terminal for him, including polling of Labour party members showing the game was up (or nearly up).
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
I don’t think the Left would take that risk until the internal processes have been reshaped as well. This is a once in a generation opportunity for them. The 2022 election doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. If they can permanently secure control of the Labour Party they will believe their turn will come around soon enough.
Assuming for the moment that the Tories win in 2022. Will they still be fresh and energetic in 2027?
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
I don’t think the Left would take that risk until the internal processes have been reshaped as well. This is a once in a generation opportunity for them. The 2022 election doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. If they can permanently secure control of the Labour Party they will believe their turn will come around soon enough.
Assuming for the moment that the Tories win in 2022. Will they still be fresh and energetic in 2027?
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."
An old one but still one of the best.......
If Labour's Jewish MP's plus their high profile fellow travellers within the party line up behind Netanyahu then things will get very interesting. It 'll test whether it really is possible to criticise Israel without being labelled an anti semite and it'll be interesting to see on whose side these MPs line up.. If Corbyn plays his cards right-which would be a first-he could yet emerge smelling of roses.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Beware: loading this page is wreaking havoc with my iPad.
Thank you.
Sensible reporting of VI for once:
Generally, on voting intention, the two major parties were pretty much tied, with the Conservatives on 37 per cent and Labour on 39 per cent once ‘don’t knows’ were excluded.
Mirror: Labour soar into two point lead over collapsing Tories
Telegraph: Boris plans May coup as Tories slump vs Labour
Express: Did Diana find the cure for arthritis?
Mail last week: May humbled as lead collapses with Brexit plan in chaos
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
I don’t think the Left would take that risk until the internal processes have been reshaped as well. This is a once in a generation opportunity for them. The 2022 election doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. If they can permanently secure control of the Labour Party they will believe their turn will come around soon enough.
Assuming for the moment that the Tories win in 2022. Will they still be fresh and energetic in 2027?
"still"??
Well, assuming that they manage to reinvent themselves for the June* election campaign
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
Beware: loading this page is wreaking havoc with my iPad.
Thank you.
Sensible reporting of VI for once:
Generally, on voting intention, the two major parties were pretty much tied, with the Conservatives on 37 per cent and Labour on 39 per cent once ‘don’t knows’ were excluded.
Mirror: Labour soar into two point lead over collapsing Tories
Telegraph: Boris plans May coup as Tories slump vs Labour
Express: Did Diana find the cure for arthritis?
Mail last week: May humbled as lead collapses with Brexit plan in chaos
Betting post. Off on a (group) trip to Chelmsford City this afternoon. First horse-racing trip for ages. However, some very short-priced animals on the card, (1/7 in one case) so anyone any ggod ideas (or info).
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
IMO the only reason he got away with the IRA stuff is because of the subsequent peace process in NI, allowing his supporters to engage in such whataboutery as showing Adams shaking hands with the Queen and asking if that makes her evil too.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."
An old one but still one of the best.......
If Labour's Jewish MP's plus their high profile fellow travellers within the party line up behind Netanyahu then things will get very interesting. It 'll test whether it really is possible to criticise Israel without being labelled an anti semite and it'll be interesting to see on whose side these MPs line up.. If Corbyn plays his cards right-which would be a first-he could yet emerge smelling of roses.
Alternatively, if Mossad releases what dirt they have.....
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
The story has moved on. The BBC are leading with the Netanyahu intervention which for Corbyn is a godsend. This could be a turning point.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
People don't care about any of this, not enough to matter anyway. His mps will support him for pm, and the public prioritise that he's not a tory over his increasingly lame explanations for his baggage. Netenyahu wading in will have been a godsend for him, already his people are switching the narrative by comparing Israeli government actions to his personal blunders.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
IMO the only reason he got away with the IRA stuff is because of the subsequent peace process in NI, allowing his supporters to engage in such whataboutery as showing Adams shaking hands with the Queen and asking if that makes her evil too.
It's just bewildering. As others have pointed out he does not look to negotiate peace, he picks a side. How many meetings did he have with the UDA or has he had with Likud? The side he always picks is the one that is anti Western or more specifically anti US. He is always keen to spend time with its opponents but not with their allies.
Such positioning has consistently brought him to condone their evil acts. But we know all this. We've known it for years. You either think he is morally repugnant or you think this is ok. I don't see how the argument is being moved on by the latest example.
Mr. L, getting caught out with inconsistencies could make a difference. Of course, it would help if the BBC/ITV gave the story anything like the prominence they did Boris' obnoxious comments.
Just by dint of the Leader of the Opposition having a spat with the head of government of another country it should be in the top rank of news.
I'm sure in a few weeks there'll be another story of polling indicating low public trust in the media and much head-scratching as to how the mysterious state of affairs might have arisen.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
You'd think the Tories would have learned from 2016 and 2017 that they would be better employed coming up with something positive to say on their own account.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
Show me the photo of Corbyn at a wreath laying ceremony for those dead Israeli athletes and I’ll believe he is really about ‘peace fairness and justice’. In reality, he has his side and that’s who he supports. Merely stating he’s a saint doesn’t make it so.
This does make an interesting point - I think we can all mostly agree that Corbyn opponents can go overboard at times in interpreting malicious thought or action on his part, but this retaliatory nonsense from his supporters making him into one of history's greatest peacemakers and a cross between Gandhi and St Francis of AssisI is pretty damn risible.
The man was a backbench MP for 30 years who made a lot of speeches, attended a lot of meetings, and bizarrely frequently met some rather odious people. Whatever one thinks of his intentions all this time he's not Jesus.
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
IMO the only reason he got away with the IRA stuff is because of the subsequent peace process in NI, allowing his supporters to engage in such whataboutery as showing Adams shaking hands with the Queen and asking if that makes her evil too.
It's just bewildering. As others have pointed out he does not look to negotiate peace, he picks a side. How many meetings did he have with the UDA or has he had with Likud? The side he always picks is the one that is anti Western or more specifically anti US. He is always keen to spend time with its opponents but not with their allies.
Such positioning has consistently brought him to condone their evil acts. But we know all this. We've known it for years. You either think he is morally repugnant or you think this is ok. I don't see how the argument is being moved on by the latest example.
Yes, the subtleties of his positioning are lost on many people who aren’t political wonks like us lot. I amagine the reaction to him bringing the IRA to Parliament would be quite different if they were still bombing mainland targets.
Mr. L, maybe. It's being reported heavily in the Mail and on Sky, but not nearly as much elsewhere.
There's also the leadership angle, as ever. Javid said the other day, rightly, that the leader of any other party would've been forced out by what Corbyn had done. Hunt may not want his rival to steal a march.
I watched ITV News at Ten last night, and they had this well down the running order. They also managed the impressive feat of managing not to mention once that the Prime Minister of Israel had a go at the Leader of the Opposition. Quite astounding.
The BBC also had this well down the order.
I could see a case for perhaps having it behind the Turkish economy in precedence, but nothing else. As I asked yesterday, does fake news include not reporting something for hours (BBC yesterday), or giving a cursory glance to something that deserves at least equal standing with the days of outraged shrieking that accompanied Boris' comments?
When did the Leader of the Opposition getting caught out with inconsistencies (to be polite) about laying a wreath at a terrorist grave and getting into a spat with the head of government of another country become less important than a backbencher with leadership aspirations being obnoxious about niqabs and burqs?
They are both in with a good shout of being PM. Both have done this sort of thing before. The difference is Corbyn's had more airtime on his dirty laundry in recent years, do it is barely news.
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
The story has moved on. The BBC are leading with the Netanyahu intervention which for Corbyn is a godsend. This could be a turning point.
Well quite. Standing up to Netanyahu will do Corbyns statesmanship credentials no harm at all.
Vile and disgusting as laying a wreath for the vicious murderers of Munich was I can't help agreeing with Richard's comment downthread that it really should not resonate with the UK as much as bringing murderers to the HoC days after Brighton. If the great British public in their wisdom were willing to forgive the latter will the former really bring him down?
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
The story has moved on. The BBC are leading with the Netanyahu intervention which for Corbyn is a godsend. This could be a turning point.
Indeed, he's on safe ground now, some of his supporters might even have been getting nervy but one only needs to see those Owen Jones comments to see were now into 'why look at x when y is more important?' Territory.
Show me the photo of Corbyn at a wreath laying ceremony for those dead Israeli athletes and I’ll believe he is really about ‘peace fairness and justice’. In reality, he has his side and that’s who he supports. Merely stating he’s a saint doesn’t make it so.
This does make an interesting point - I think we can all mostly agree that Corbyn opponents can go overboard at times in interpreting malicious thought or action on his part, but this retaliatory nonsense from his supporters making him into one of history's greatest peacemakers and a cross between Gandhi and St Francis of AssisI is pretty damn risible.
The man was a backbench MP for 30 years who made a lot of speeches, attended a lot of meetings, and bizarrely frequently met some rather odious people. Whatever one thinks of his intentions all this time he's not Jesus.
He went round the world looking for 'oppressed peoples' whose causes he could champion, with blind spots and not enough scruples and judgement about the activities of some of those he met. Meanwhile Tories in government have blind spots and not enough scruples about the activities of a fair few of the oppressing governments. Both are wrong.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
You'd think the Tories would have learned from 2016 and 2017 that they would be better employed coming up with something positive to say on their own account.
You see, whenever you post something like that I know you fear the strategy will be effective.
Betting post. Off on a (group) trip to Chelmsford City this afternoon. First horse-racing trip for ages. However, some very short-priced animals on the card, (1/7 in one case) so anyone any ggod ideas (or info).
2:00 Seductive 3:00 Mudallel 3:30 reverse forecast numbers 1& 5 4:30 Gold Filigree 5:00 Master's Apprentice (Each way or place only )
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
You're not the country either. This is a decidedly middle class and we'll educated website, and fairly London centric, so i'd take any conclusions we reach on likeabolili with a large pinch of salt.
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
You'd think the Tories would have learned from 2016 and 2017 that they would be better employed coming up with something positive to say on their own account.
Indeed - the negative stories do write and perpetuate themselves, people still need a reason to justify voting for you. People do pick the least worst option, but I think we all like to imagine were picking the virtuous side too. Why else do people go so crazy that not only are tories/labour immoral/stupid, but that their leader is a living saint?
Betting post. Off on a (group) trip to Chelmsford City this afternoon. First horse-racing trip for ages. However, some very short-priced animals on the card, (1/7 in one case) so anyone any ggod ideas (or info).
2:00 Seductive 3:00 Mudallel 3:30 reverse forecast numbers 1& 5 4:30 Gold Filigree 5:00 Master's Apprentice (Each way or place only )
Betting post. Off on a (group) trip to Chelmsford City this afternoon. First horse-racing trip for ages. However, some very short-priced animals on the card, (1/7 in one case) so anyone any ggod ideas (or info).
2:00 Seductive 3:00 Mudallel 3:30 reverse forecast numbers 1& 5 4:30 Gold Filigree 5:00 Master's Apprentice (Each way or place only )
Only my thoughts so do not put a lot on them
Much obliged. Will report tonight.
I will be worried all day that you are losing your money. I will back most of them as well.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Diane Abbott
Still not the worst option - Chris Williamson. I'll say this for Corbyn, he does not come across as deranged.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
You're not the country either. This is a decidedly middle class and we'll educated website, and fairly London centric, so i'd take any conclusions we reach on likeabolili with a large pinch of salt.
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
Midlands, fine, but marginal ("voter"), probably not!
When it comes to Corbyn v the Tories, I'm closer to the marginal voter than you and am firmly in the 'meh' camp at the 'revelation' that Corbyn is a radical lefty.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
I think people are massively underestimating the chances of him not fighting the next election. His political career has not been about being a leader and I don't see him as seeing himself defined by his current role. He's not the Messiah, he's more a John the Baptist.
Only the absence of a Messiah is keeping him in situ.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
I think people are massively underestimating the chances of him not fighting the next election. His political career has not been about being a leader and I don't see him as seeing himself defined by his current role. He's not the Messiah, he's more a John the Baptist.
Only the absence of a Messiah is keeping him in situ.
He’s not the Messiah, he’s (been) a very silly boy. Sometimes!
I'd still rather have JC as PM though as it would annoy the sort of person who richly deserves to be so incommodiated.
You remind me of the audience members on the Russian version of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire - who would deliberately give the wrong answer to Ask The Audience because they liked seeing people lose....
Talk of the devill.....Labour have come out fighting. "Are we really going to take lessons from Benjamin Netanyahu". says Labour spokesman.
Most sane voters are tired of the whataboutery.
Corbo has a fetish for anti Western terrorists - a secret man crush for the cowardly baddie who are braver than Jezza and will actually use violence he wishes he could turn to but is too scared to.
Talk of the devill.....Labour have come out fighting. "Are we really going to take lessons from Benjamin Netanyahu". says Labour spokesman.
They're going to ignore Corbyn's own comments contradicting previous statements aren't they? And it will work. Even some of the political wonks I know we're talking about Boris not Corbyn the last few days, and anyone who picks it up now will see it as primarily a fight against Netanyahu, given headlines. Lucky man.
Unwise. The Tories are better staying out of this.
I agree - Labour can keep it running, but Javid piled in yesterday, so I wonder if its coordinated?
They might have been drawn in because once it becomes an international talking point they feel obliged to comment? More likely they are just blundering into it.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
You're not the country either. This is a decidedly middle class and we'll educated website, and fairly London centric, so i'd take any conclusions we reach on likeabolili with a large pinch of salt.
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
That's ... an interesting post.
I understand you have an intense dislike of her due to that incident, and fair enough. It is an attack line. But it's also weak, as the original offence was rather weak (it wasn't as if she wiped her bottom on the flag and then set fire to it), and it's also in the past. I think the number of voters it will resonate with enough to change votes is very low. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so, for the same reason Bonking Boris or Callous Corbyn isn't resonating much.
I think you forget I originally come from the Midlands, and still have family and friends there who I regularly see and, more importantly, listen to.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
Did they lay the wreath on the wrong grave or something?
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Looking at it from a Corbynite perspective, is that a problem? McDonnell, surely.
Talk of the devill.....Labour have come out fighting. "Are we really going to take lessons from Benjamin Netanyahu". says Labour spokesman.
Most sane voters are tired of the whataboutery.
Corbo has a fetish for anti Western terrorists - a secret man crush for the cowardly baddie who are braver than Jezza and will actually use violence he wishes he could turn to but is too scared to.
The sad thing is, if I (or any of us) was to be murdered in a terrorist attack by a group that Corbyn has sympathies with, he won't cry any tears for us, but for them.
From my point of view, the Jewish problem about definitions of anti-Semitism didn't really matter that much. It was more a details and pedantry sort of thing. However attending a wreath-laying ceremony to honour vicious terrorists who killed people just because they were Jewish is different. Maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember Munich.
But it's par for the course for Jezza. Given half a chance, he'll be honouring Jihadi John for his freedom-fighting stance. The excuse that he was wandering around bewildered, thinking he was at a Sally Army meeting is also par for the course, I actually can believe it.
But the bulk of his support won't care. To them, it's all a smear. However, his PM ratings may take a hit, even the Labour ratings don't change.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
You're not the country either. This is a decidedly middle class and we'll educated website, and fairly London centric, so i'd take any conclusions we reach on likeabolili with a large pinch of salt.
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
Midlands, fine, but marginal ("voter"), probably not!
When it comes to Corbyn v the Tories, I'm closer to the marginal voter than you and am firmly in the 'meh' camp at the 'revelation' that Corbyn is a radical lefty.
I don't think the recent stories will have much effect, but they don't seem to have much to do with him being a radical lefty, and more to him being, at best by his own defence , stupidly careless about who he mixes with (no those were not the words he used, but it is the implication from his excuses). Even radical lefties management to avoid that.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
You're not the country either. This is a decidedly middle class and we'll educated website, and fairly London centric, so i'd take any conclusions we reach on likeabolili with a large pinch of salt.
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
Midlands, fine, but marginal ("voter"), probably not!
When it comes to Corbyn v the Tories, I'm closer to the marginal voter than you and am firmly in the 'meh' camp at the 'revelation' that Corbyn is a radical lefty.
I don't think the recent stories will have much effect, but they don't seem to have much to do with him being a radical lefty, and more to him being, at best by his own defence , stupidly careless about who he mixes with (no those were not the words he used, but it is the implication from his excuses). Even radical lefties management to avoid that.
For context, Casino and I were talking about Emily 'flags' Thornberry, not Corbyn.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
What also comes across is he has (at best) a shaky grasp of the specifics (at best) is forgetful and (at best) is easily confused. That, or he tells lies. Which would you prefer in a PM?
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
We're in a thread pointing out that the current Labour leader has escaped a massively flawed and sick back story. And we have a potential Conservative leader (God help us) in Boris who has an extremely colourful backstory that has caused him little harm so far.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
You're not the country either. This is a decidedly middle class and we'll educated website, and fairly London centric, so i'd take any conclusions we reach on likeabolili with a large pinch of salt.
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
Midlands, fine, but marginal ("voter"), probably not!
When it comes to Corbyn v the Tories, I'm closer to the marginal voter than you and am firmly in the 'meh' camp at the 'revelation' that Corbyn is a radical lefty.
I don't think the recent stories will have much effect, but they don't seem to have much to do with him being a radical lefty, and more to him being, at best by his own defence , stupidly careless about who he mixes with (no those were not the words he used, but it is the implication from his excuses). Even radical lefties management to avoid that.
For context, Casino and I were talking about Emily 'flags' Thornberry, not Corbyn.
Whoops, a bit hasty with the posting, as is my wont! Time to get up and go to work methinks
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
I think people are massively underestimating the chances of him not fighting the next election. His political career has not been about being a leader and I don't see him as seeing himself defined by his current role. He's not the Messiah, he's more a John the Baptist.
Only the absence of a Messiah is keeping him in situ.
I agree. His mission is to see a left wing labour government in power. I doubt its particularly important to him who leads it - and if his NEC changes stick and a suitable electable successor emerges, his work will be done.
Talk of the devill.....Labour have come out fighting. "Are we really going to take lessons from Benjamin Netanyahu". says Labour spokesman.
What - the at least I'm not Hitler gambit?
Do you think it won't work? How many who will notice the story for the first time will get to the underlying detail? Especially when I bet a bunch of Corbyn critics will make comments like 'it's regrettable Netanyahu is involved, but...' and not many will get further.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
What also comes across is he has (at best) a shaky grasp of the specifics (at best) is forgetful and (at best) is easily confused. That, or he tells lies. Which would you prefer in a PM?
He is a politician. That’s priced in. He only has to appear more honest than May or Blair. His supporters would say that is not hard.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
It's only at the heart of the story if you want to slew the story over there. The *heart* of the story is that Corbyn will instinctively support any group who claim to be supporting the oppressed, whatever their actions. That's his track record over decades,e.g. the IRA. Chavez's disastrous rule of Venezuela can probably also be included.
In his mind (a sick one, IMV), *any* atrocity can be excused if it is done in the name of the oppressed.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
Maybe, but the party machinery in safe hands and the membership brimming with Corbynite adoration, I think post brexit it would be safe for him to pass the torch. He can still show up to fire up the crowds.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
Maybe, but the party machinery in safe hands and the membership brimming with Corbynite adoration, I think post brexit it would be safe for him to pass the torch. He can still show up to fire up the crowds.
As I've said passim, I'm unsure he wants, or ever wanted, to be PM. What he wants is to put in place measures that will mean that Labour will never, ever return to the 'poison' of centrism and Blairism.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
Maybe, but the party machinery in safe hands and the membership brimming with Corbynite adoration, I think post brexit it would be safe for him to pass the torch. He can still show up to fire up the crowds.
As I've said passim, I'm unsure he wants, or ever wanted, to be PM. What he wants is to put in place measures that will mean that Labour will never, ever return to the 'poison' of centrism and Blairism.
Yes, it's about control of the party power levers and not running the country.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
And I think it dangerous to discount that charisma for either Boris or Jezza. It is the political X factor that is needed to get the average punter interested in politics. Trump has it, Macron too, Blair had it also at one time, but few of our other leading politicians do.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
Maybe, but the party machinery in safe hands and the membership brimming with Corbynite adoration, I think post brexit it would be safe for him to pass the torch. He can still show up to fire up the crowds.
As I've said passim, I'm unsure he wants, or ever wanted, to be PM. What he wants is to put in place measures that will mean that Labour will never, ever return to the 'poison' of centrism and Blairism.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
What also comes across is he has (at best) a shaky grasp of the specifics (at best) is forgetful and (at best) is easily confused. That, or he tells lies. Which would you prefer in a PM?
He only has to appear more honest than May or Blair..
Not sure the Vicar's daughter has got quite the embarrassing back catalogue of Corbyn....she also lost a university journalist acquaintance to an IRA bomb outside Harrods...
Comments
I have put you straight, above.
Worth reading
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-tories-never-condemn-the-naked-racism-of-benjamin-netanyahu-they-should/
https://twitter.com/anyabike/status/1029239767366549509
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-second-referendum-vote-petition-theresa-may-deal-eu-a8490256.html
Beware: loading this page is wreaking havoc with my iPad.
Is it becoming an issue?
I watched ITV News at Ten last night, and they had this well down the running order. They also managed the impressive feat of managing not to mention once that the Prime Minister of Israel had a go at the Leader of the Opposition. Quite astounding.
The BBC also had this well down the order.
I could see a case for perhaps having it behind the Turkish economy in precedence, but nothing else. As I asked yesterday, does fake news include not reporting something for hours (BBC yesterday), or giving a cursory glance to something that deserves at least equal standing with the days of outraged shrieking that accompanied Boris' comments?
When did the Leader of the Opposition getting caught out with inconsistencies (to be polite) about laying a wreath at a terrorist grave and getting into a spat with the head of government of another country become less important than a backbencher with leadership aspirations being obnoxious about niqabs and burqs?
It's becoming clear that Corbyn is utterly immoral. He has spent so long believing that he knows what is right, that he has allowed himself to veer over into what is wrong and immorality. But it's fine, he and his supports say, because he *knows* he is moral and right.
Telling yourself and others that you are moral (e.g. "I am an anti-racist") means nothing. What matters are actions, and Corbyn's actions turn his words into a lie.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
I'd need a lot of convincing before I thought this was terminal for him, including polling of Labour party members showing the game was up (or nearly up).
Assuming for the moment that the Tories win in 2022. Will they still be fresh and energetic in 2027?
If Labour's Jewish MP's plus their high profile fellow travellers within the party line up behind Netanyahu then things will get very interesting. It 'll test whether it really is possible to criticise Israel without being labelled an anti semite and it'll be interesting to see on whose side these MPs line up.. If Corbyn plays his cards right-which would be a first-he could yet emerge smelling of roses.
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Sensible reporting of VI for once:
Generally, on voting intention, the two major parties were pretty much tied, with the Conservatives on 37 per cent and Labour on 39 per cent once ‘don’t knows’ were excluded.
Mirror: Labour soar into two point lead over collapsing Tories
Telegraph: Boris plans May coup as Tories slump vs Labour
Express: Did Diana find the cure for arthritis?
Mail last week: May humbled as lead collapses with Brexit plan in chaos
Mail this week Corbyn, terrorists etc. etc
* After May
https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1029136790345662465
I fear that this story is being considerably over blown within the Westminster echo chamber and will not reach into the general populace. Despite Corbyn's best efforts the caravan will inevitably move on at some point and my guess is that Corbyn will still be there.
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
The story may resonate with you, but you're not the country. Most people will goo 'meh'. Besides, it happened a long time ago, and the English sense of fair play will suggest she deserves a second chance after such a minor issue.
Such positioning has consistently brought him to condone their evil acts. But we know all this. We've known it for years. You either think he is morally repugnant or you think this is ok. I don't see how the argument is being moved on by the latest example.
Just by dint of the Leader of the Opposition having a spat with the head of government of another country it should be in the top rank of news.
I'm sure in a few weeks there'll be another story of polling indicating low public trust in the media and much head-scratching as to how the mysterious state of affairs might have arisen.
The man was a backbench MP for 30 years who made a lot of speeches, attended a lot of meetings, and bizarrely frequently met some rather odious people. Whatever one thinks of his intentions all this time he's not Jesus.
There's also the leadership angle, as ever. Javid said the other day, rightly, that the leader of any other party would've been forced out by what Corbyn had done. Hunt may not want his rival to steal a march.
He really should go to Red Bull. I have a tiny sum at 61 on it happening.
Just not being Corbyn will be enough to give the Labour party the boost it needs to beat the tories.
I'd still rather have JC as PM though as it would annoy the sort of person who richly deserves to be so incommodiated.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
That's why it's done.
3:00 Mudallel
3:30 reverse forecast numbers 1& 5
4:30 Gold Filigree
5:00 Master's Apprentice (Each way or place only )
Only my thoughts so do not put a lot on them
I suspect I am far closer to a Midlands marginal voter than you, however.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/19428
When it comes to Corbyn v the Tories, I'm closer to the marginal voter than you and am firmly in the 'meh' camp at the 'revelation' that Corbyn is a radical lefty.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
Only the absence of a Messiah is keeping him in situ.
Corbo has a fetish for anti Western terrorists - a secret man crush for the cowardly baddie who are braver than Jezza and will actually use violence he wishes he could turn to but is too scared to.
I understand you have an intense dislike of her due to that incident, and fair enough. It is an attack line. But it's also weak, as the original offence was rather weak (it wasn't as if she wiped her bottom on the flag and then set fire to it), and it's also in the past. I think the number of voters it will resonate with enough to change votes is very low. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so, for the same reason Bonking Boris or Callous Corbyn isn't resonating much.
I think you forget I originally come from the Midlands, and still have family and friends there who I regularly see and, more importantly, listen to.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
McDonnell, surely.
And so, by extension, would a Corbyn government.
But it's par for the course for Jezza. Given half a chance, he'll be honouring Jihadi John for his freedom-fighting stance. The excuse that he was wandering around bewildered, thinking he was at a Sally Army meeting is also par for the course, I actually can believe it.
But the bulk of his support won't care. To them, it's all a smear. However, his PM ratings may take a hit, even the Labour ratings don't change.
Mildly amused, given Verstappen's insurance premium-increasing start to the season.
In his mind (a sick one, IMV), *any* atrocity can be excused if it is done in the name of the oppressed.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.