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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: Five Things That Will Surprise You

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited August 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: Five Things That Will Surprise You

We’re all routinely wrong. Mostly that’s because we’re simply don’t know any better. But increasingly it’s the result of us reading things on Facebook, Twitter, and the like that push persuasive narratives. The stories make sense, so we believe them.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    First! Like LEAVE, No & Mrs May...
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    Insomniacs r us :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    (Note: YouTube somehow lost the first thirty seconds of my video. It seems to stand up without it, so I’m posting it anyway.)

    Seemed complete to me! Thanks for another interesting video.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Everything you could possibly want to know about #Cemeterygate:

    https://twitter.com/njstone9/status/1029017018232594432

    Fun fact; St Peter Port's most prestigious cemetery is called 'CANDIE' - after the adjacent house and park from which the land was taken - the gate splits the name in two - CAN - DIE - a useful reminder to us all.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Owen spinning for all he's worth:

    The aim of the conference..... culminated in the laying of a wreath at a memorial for the dozens of people killed, civilians among them, when the Israelis bombed the PLO’s headquarters in 1985......

    .....This week’s controversy has focused on the graves of two other senior PLO figures, Salah Khalaf and Atef Bseiso: Corbyn was pictured a few metres away from both, and a photograph shows a wreath laid by Khalaf’s tomb.


    Great use of nominalisation Owen - 'a wreath laid' - but by whom? And at which memorial/graves did Jeremy help lay a wreath?

    And:

    There is nothing immoral about laying a wreath to remember the victims of an attack that even Margaret Thatcher condemned.

    But Jeremy didn't do that, did he? He stood at the back.....

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/14/corbyn-wreath-terror-victims-memorial-israel-palestinian

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    A view from Israel:

    A column in a leading newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, warned on Monday that Corbyn’s actions, including a visit to the “grave of the person who planned the terror attack at the Munich Olympics”, were of deep concern.

    “The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini. “Up until recently, the biggest concern was that this would be as a result of the rise of one of the extreme rightwing parties. As of now, the chance is much greater is that this will come from the left of all places.”

    Israel’s Labor party secretary general, Yehiel Bar, said: “The grave new discoveries about Corbyn are no surprise, to my regret, and they only further justify the Labor party’s decision from several months ago to completely sever all ties with Mr Corbyn and his office.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/14/labour-calls-claims-about-corbyn-palestinian-cemetery-visit-false
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,012
    edited August 2018
    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...
  • This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    "t's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down."

    Now then, let's get this right. When I challenged Jezziah over this (where is he, btw), he claimed they were 'fireworks'. When pressed, he changed it to 'advanced fireworks'.

    (Which covers everything from the things you buy in the shops every October to the Space Shuttle's SRB's.)

    So the Palestinians are not firing rockets into Israel, they're just trying to give their foes a great fireworks display. Which is very kind of them.

    (end sarcasm mode).
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    A view from Israel:

    A column in a leading newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, warned on Monday that Corbyn’s actions, including a visit to the “grave of the person who planned the terror attack at the Munich Olympics”, were of deep concern.

    “The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini. “Up until recently, the biggest concern was that this would be as a result of the rise of one of the extreme rightwing parties. As of now, the chance is much greater is that this will come from the left of all places.”

    Israel’s Labor party secretary general, Yehiel Bar, said: “The grave new discoveries about Corbyn are no surprise, to my regret, and they only further justify the Labor party’s decision from several months ago to completely sever all ties with Mr Corbyn and his office.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/14/labour-calls-claims-about-corbyn-palestinian-cemetery-visit-false

    "“The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini."

    This is a particularly poignant observation having watched the latest episode of the BBC series Who Do You Think You Are featuring Robert 'Judge' Rinder.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    fitalass said:

    A view from Israel:

    A column in a leading newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, warned on Monday that Corbyn’s actions, including a visit to the “grave of the person who planned the terror attack at the Munich Olympics”, were of deep concern.

    “The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini. “Up until recently, the biggest concern was that this would be as a result of the rise of one of the extreme rightwing parties. As of now, the chance is much greater is that this will come from the left of all places.”

    Israel’s Labor party secretary general, Yehiel Bar, said: “The grave new discoveries about Corbyn are no surprise, to my regret, and they only further justify the Labor party’s decision from several months ago to completely sever all ties with Mr Corbyn and his office.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/14/labour-calls-claims-about-corbyn-palestinian-cemetery-visit-false

    "“The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini."
    That line also struck me as telling given how often we’re told we’re a bunch of racist xenophobes inferior to our EU neighbours.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: I do wonder how things will pan out now. Whilst good news for Vandoorne that Alonso's going (just because it increases the prospect of the Belgian retaining his seat), Sainz is also out of one. Norris is surely likely to get promoted too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2018
    Excellent video Robert, both informative and easy to watch, with a few good jokes in there too.

    In a similar vein, an interview with Prof Steven Pinker from last week, making the point that no matter how much bad stuff is in the news ever day, at a macro level the world is a better place than it’s ever been.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=t33pow_AK4E
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761
    The Spanish example is interesting. Although it has been falling for some years now it was once again coming off an all time high in 2013, according to this: https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/unemployment-rate

    Even now the unemployment rate is 15.2% compared with 4% in the UK and that is despite a significant number of young Spaniards coming here for work. Spain's population has also been rising fairly rapidly meaning simply measuring the number of people in employment does not really give a fair indication of the unemployment rate.

    What Robert's video shows is that (1) the starting point of any series of statistics is key and (2) that you need to be careful to compare like with like to get a meaningful picture but (3) it is also sometimes informative not to compare like with like to cross check if that gives you a different view and to see if there is something going on under the surface that one statistic on its own does not pick up.

    In the Spanish example a fairly rapidly increasing population has meant more people in work but also a seriously high unemployment rate. If Spain can moderate population growth (mainly through migration) but keep creating jobs at its current rate unemployment might fall quite rapidly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    "t's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down."

    Now then, let's get this right. When I challenged Jezziah over this (where is he, btw), he claimed they were 'fireworks'. When pressed, he changed it to 'advanced fireworks'.

    (Which covers everything from the things you buy in the shops every October to the Space Shuttle's SRB's.)

    So the Palestinians are not firing rockets into Israel, they're just trying to give their foes a great fireworks display. Which is very kind of them.

    (end sarcasm mode).
    The Space Shuttle SRB certainly makes for the best explosion on a cold day.

    (Too soon?)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    So where is Corbyn riding to today, on his Cycle of Dialogue?
  • Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters
    Corbyn is not evil. He has been a tireless campaigner against oppression and racism all over the world, including in Palestine. Opponents are entitled to put forward a different view, but it is partisan to hound him, and the intemperate language used by some, including several Labour MPs, has been out-of-order.

    Putting it cynically, it would not matter to most people in the UK if a Corbyn-led government took a hostile approach to Israel, although it might put the UK in Trump's black book. A previous Labour administration was hardly sympathetic to the foundation of the Zionist state, at the same time as it was highly lauded (and continues to be) for founding the NHS.

    Foreign policy is generally of little concern, unless folk are directly affected, as where Britain intervenes. However, Corbyn's view of the disastrous meddling in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya has been proven wise, and is undoubtedly seen positively by many people.

    However, and of far more concern from a domestic perspective, is that this affair illustrates his indecision/incompetence in taking a clear line on the matter when under pressure, which has been evident elsewhere, e.g. on the much more important issue of Brexit. That is one reason why Corbyn might make a poor PM.
  • This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    Millions campaigned against apartheid in South Africa, without ever questioning South Africa’s right to exist.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    fitalass said:

    A view from Israel:

    A column in a leading newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, warned on Monday that Corbyn’s actions, including a visit to the “grave of the person who planned the terror attack at the Munich Olympics”, were of deep concern.

    “The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini. “Up until recently, the biggest concern was that this would be as a result of the rise of one of the extreme rightwing parties. As of now, the chance is much greater is that this will come from the left of all places.”

    Israel’s Labor party secretary general, Yehiel Bar, said: “The grave new discoveries about Corbyn are no surprise, to my regret, and they only further justify the Labor party’s decision from several months ago to completely sever all ties with Mr Corbyn and his office.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/14/labour-calls-claims-about-corbyn-palestinian-cemetery-visit-false

    "“The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini."

    This is a particularly poignant observation having watched the latest episode of the BBC series Who Do You Think You Are featuring Robert 'Judge' Rinder.

    What makes other countries in Europe more anti-Semitic than us, why are we the "least" ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761
    Another example of the dangers of statistics coming from Robert's video. Our biggest food export as a nation?

    Whisky. Water of life and all that but perhaps somewhat misleading when you are considering whether we can actually feed ourselves in the post Brexit apocalypse.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Yes, certainly in Europe and the US most planes are now little more than busses. Mid East and major Asian cities are a lot better, they tend to see people more as customers than as an inconvenience.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    I have the cost of a ticket I booked yesterday in front of me:

    Fare (ie goes to airline) Eur6.49
    Taxes and fees (goes to not airline) 31.65.

    That might be why ancillaries are important. There's no legal obligation to fly if you don't like it.
  • Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Yes, certainly in Europe and the US most planes are now little more than busses. Mid East and major Asian cities are a lot better, they tend to see people more as customers than as an inconvenience.

    Domestic flights in China and India are horrific, in my experience. The US is by far the worst. A lot of the unpleasantness around flying in Europe - and from the UK, in particular - is about the airports rather than the airlines. They’re chronically understaffed in so many instances, so creating delays at departure, arrival and at passport control.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
  • daodao said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters
    Corbyn is not evil. He has been a tireless campaigner against oppression and racism all over the world, including in Palestine. Opponents are entitled to put forward a different view, but it is partisan to hound him, and the intemperate language used by some, including several Labour MPs, has been out-of-order.

    Putting it cynically, it would not matter to most people in the UK if a Corbyn-led government took a hostile approach to Israel, although it might put the UK in Trump's black book. A previous Labour administration was hardly sympathetic to the foundation of the Zionist state, at the same time as it was highly lauded (and continues to be) for founding the NHS.

    Foreign policy is generally of little concern, unless folk are directly affected, as where Britain intervenes. However, Corbyn's view of the disastrous meddling in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya has been proven wise, and is undoubtedly seen positively by many people.

    However, and of far more concern from a domestic perspective, is that this affair illustrates his indecision/incompetence in taking a clear line on the matter when under pressure, which has been evident elsewhere, e.g. on the much more important issue of Brexit. That is one reason why Corbyn might make a poor PM.

    The biggrst concern about Corbyn being PM is thst he would compromise UK security. Countries - including Israel - would be far more reluctant to share intelligence with us; while our position as a nuclear power would also be significantly compromised and our NATO commitment would weaken, whatever it said in the Labour manifesto. That, of course, is why Corbyn never will be PM.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    TBF most of the shittiness is security and immigration, which is caused by the voters hating freedom, not by the airlines taking people for granted.

    The airlines are mainly responding to what their customers want, which is cheaper flights. I don't think I'd pay more than $15 premium to fly on my favourite airline over my least favourite.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761
    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Sandpit said:

    Excellent video Robert, both informative and easy to watch, with a few good jokes in there too.

    In a similar vein, an interview with Prof Steven Pinker from last week, making the point that no matter how much bad stuff is in the news ever day, at a macro level the world is a better place than it’s ever been.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=t33pow_AK4E

    Series 3 of Detectorists was definitely the best.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Observer, I hope you're right, but that level of complacency helped deliver the worst Conservative campaign for decades (maybe longer?) and the media probing with powerful questions like "Will you keep your allotment if you win?".

    Corbyn, and the threat he poses, needs to be taken seriously.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    A view from Israel:

    A column in a leading newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, warned on Monday that Corbyn’s actions, including a visit to the “grave of the person who planned the terror attack at the Munich Olympics”, were of deep concern.

    “The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini. “Up until recently, the biggest concern was that this would be as a result of the rise of one of the extreme rightwing parties. As of now, the chance is much greater is that this will come from the left of all places.”

    Israel’s Labor party secretary general, Yehiel Bar, said: “The grave new discoveries about Corbyn are no surprise, to my regret, and they only further justify the Labor party’s decision from several months ago to completely sever all ties with Mr Corbyn and his office.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/14/labour-calls-claims-about-corbyn-palestinian-cemetery-visit-false

    "“The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini."

    This is a particularly poignant observation having watched the latest episode of the BBC series Who Do You Think You Are featuring Robert 'Judge' Rinder.

    What makes other countries in Europe more anti-Semitic than us, why are we the "least" ?
    Actual physical attacks on Jews for being Jewish, especially in France. That's your existential threat, pace the hysteria about Corbyn.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_21st-century_France
    https://nypost.com/2018/02/24/anti-semitism-drove-these-jews-out-of-france/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Scott_P said:
    A tough one for political cartoonists - the memes beat them all to the line.

    But I must say I'm board of moaning about Corbyn. Even for most political moaning it does not matter any, he's still adored and even those that don't afore him will vote for him. At least in moaning about May one gets the sense some people will switch to ukip or the lds because of her.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821

    daodao said:

    Charles said:


    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    Corbyn is not evil. He has been a tireless campaigner against oppression and racism all over the world, including in Palestine. Opponents are entitled to put forward a different view, but it is partisan to hound him, and the intemperate language used by some, including several Labour MPs, has been out-of-order.

    Putting it cynically, it would not matter to most people in the UK if a Corbyn-led government took a hostile approach to Israel, although it might put the UK in Trump's black book. A previous Labour administration was hardly sympathetic to the foundation of the Zionist state, at the same time as it was highly lauded (and continues to be) for founding the NHS.

    Foreign policy is generally of little concern, unless folk are directly affected, as where Britain intervenes. However, Corbyn's view of the disastrous meddling in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya has been proven wise, and is undoubtedly seen positively by many people.

    However, and of far more concern from a domestic perspective, is that this affair illustrates his indecision/incompetence in taking a clear line on the matter when under pressure, which has been evident elsewhere, e.g. on the much more important issue of Brexit. That is one reason why Corbyn might make a poor PM.

    The biggest concern about Corbyn being PM is that he would compromise UK security. Countries - including Israel - would be far more reluctant to share intelligence with us; while our position as a nuclear power would also be significantly compromised and our NATO commitment would weaken, whatever it said in the Labour manifesto. That, of course, is why Corbyn never will be PM.

    I agree that the deep state would strain every sinew to stop Corbyn becoming PM.

    However, NATO became obsolescent at the same time as the demise of the Warsaw Pact. Following Brexit, the EU should take the primary responsibility for the security and the defense of Europe, and the UK will be outside the EU, so sharing of intelligence with the UK will diminish. Russia is not the main threat to the UK - China and Salafism are much more important foes.
  • Mr. Observer, I hope you're right, but that level of complacency helped deliver the worst Conservative campaign for decades (maybe longer?) and the media probing with powerful questions like "Will you keep your allotment if you win?".

    Corbyn, and the threat he poses, needs to be taken seriously.

    I can’t see beyond another hung Parliament. Millions will vote sgainst the Tories, just as millions will vote against Corbyn Labour.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761
    edited August 2018

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    TBF most of the shittiness is security and immigration, which is caused by the voters hating freedom, not by the airlines taking people for granted.

    The airlines are mainly responding to what their customers want, which is cheaper flights. I don't think I'd pay more than $15 premium to fly on my favourite airline over my least favourite.
    Whilst I would agree that security and immigration are the main cause of misery at airports I am not sure how this arises from people "hating freedom". Is that the freedom to take bombs on planes? My irritation is that security in particular is driven by a jobsworth mentality where ludicrous levels of security are justified by the very sound principle that it is not going to be my fault.

    So, does anyone actually believe that there is any evidence that having more than 100 mls of liquid in a container makes you a threat to the lives of your fellow passengers? Does anyone feel safer having to take off your belt or shoes before going through a scanner? Has anyone, anywhere, actually used a tablet to bring a bomb on a plane?

    There was this one off story about a laptop: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3443756/Laptop-bomb-used-blow-hole-Somalian-plane-sophisticated-managed-X-ray-scanners-undetected.html but the consequences for passengers world wide of this, the shoe bomber and the attempt to bring on liquid explosives in 2006 have been terrible. The responses to these isolated incidents have been poorly focussed and hugely disproportionate making flying a misery. This is not the airlines fault but it is well past time some thought was given as to how security can be conducted in a less intrusive, less irritating and more facilitative way.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited August 2018
    daodao said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters
    Corbyn is not evil. He has been a tireless campaigner against oppression and racism all over the world, including in Palestine. Opponents are entitled to put forward a different view, but it is partisan to hound him, and the intemperate language used by some, including several Labour MPs, has been out-of-order.

    Putting it cynically, it would not matter to most people in the UK if a Corbyn-led government took a hostile approach to Israel, although it might put the UK in Trump's black book. A previous Labour administration was hardly sympathetic to the foundation of the Zionist state, at the same time as it was highly lauded (and continues to be) for founding the NHS.

    Foreign policy is generally of little concern, unless folk are directly affected, as where Britain intervenes. However, Corbyn's view of the disastrous meddling in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya has been proven wise, and is undoubtedly seen positively by many people.

    However, and of far more concern from a domestic perspective, is that this affair illustrates his indecision/incompetence in taking a clear line on the matter when under pressure, which has been evident elsewhere, e.g. on the much more important issue of Brexit. That is one reason why Corbyn might make a poor PM.
    We've already seen what happens with indecisive PM's, let's not have another!

    But then we'd probably get said pm to be decisive on all the wrong things instead.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    A view from Israel:

    A column in a leading newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, warned on Monday that Corbyn’s actions, including a visit to the “grave of the person who planned the terror attack at the Munich Olympics”, were of deep concern.

    “The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini. “Up until recently, the biggest concern was that this would be as a result of the rise of one of the extreme rightwing parties. As of now, the chance is much greater is that this will come from the left of all places.”

    Israel’s Labor party secretary general, Yehiel Bar, said: “The grave new discoveries about Corbyn are no surprise, to my regret, and they only further justify the Labor party’s decision from several months ago to completely sever all ties with Mr Corbyn and his office.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/14/labour-calls-claims-about-corbyn-palestinian-cemetery-visit-false

    "“The paradox is that the least antisemitic country in Europe is liable to fall into the hands of an antisemitic politician,” wrote Ben-Dror Yemini."

    This is a particularly poignant observation having watched the latest episode of the BBC series Who Do You Think You Are featuring Robert 'Judge' Rinder.

    What makes other countries in Europe more anti-Semitic than us, why are we the "least" ?
    Here's a global survey:

    http://global100.adl.org/#map/weurope

    While the UK at 8% anti-semitic is not the best (Netherlands 5%, Sweden 4%) its comfortably better than Italy (20%), Germany (27%), Spain (29%), or France (37%), let alone Greece (69%).

  • DavidL said:

    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.

    The perennial British disease.

    The Tories better hope the next Labour leader is as useless as the last two. The simple fact is that when millions no longer feel they have a stake in a society that society is no longer sustainable.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,673
    For OKC , hope you enjoyed your day at Chelmsford.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    daodao said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters
    Corbyn is not evil. He has been a tireless campaigner against oppression and racism all over the world, including in Palestine. Opponents are entitled to put forward a different view, but it is partisan to hound him, and the intemperate language used by some, including several Labour MPs, has been out-of-order.

    Putting it cynically, it would not matter to most people in the UK if a Corbyn-led government took a hostile approach to Israel, although it might put the UK in Trump's black book. A previous Labour administration was hardly sympathetic to the foundation of the Zionist state, at the same time as it was highly lauded (and continues to be) for founding the NHS.

    Foreign policy is generally of little concern, unless folk are directly affected, as where Britain intervenes. However, Corbyn's view of the disastrous meddling in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya has been proven wise, and is undoubtedly seen positively by many people.

    However, and of far more concern from a domestic perspective, is that this affair illustrates his indecision/incompetence in taking a clear line on the matter when under pressure, which has been evident elsewhere, e.g. on the much more important issue of Brexit. That is one reason why Corbyn might make a poor PM.
    By his friends shall ye know him.

    This isn't a policy question any more. It's a character debate. And that's far more important.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    daodao said:

    Charles said:

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    Corbyn is not evil. He has been a tireless campaigner against oppression and racism all over the world, including in Palestine. Opponents are entitled to put forward a different view, but it is partisan to hound him, and the intemperate language used by some, including several Labour MPs, has been out-of-order.

    Putting it cynically, it would not matter to most people in the UK if a Corbyn-led government took a hostile approach to Israel, although it might put the UK in Trump's black book. A previous Labour administration was hardly sympathetic to the foundation of the Zionist state, at the same time as it was highly lauded (and continues to be) for founding the NHS.

    Foreign policy is generally of little concern, unless folk are directly affected, as where Britain intervenes. However, Corbyn's view of the disastrous meddling in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya has been proven wise, and is undoubtedly seen positively by many people.

    However, and of far more concern from a domestic perspective, is that this affair illustrates his indecision/incompetence in taking a clear line on the matter when under pressure, which has been evident elsewhere, e.g. on the much more important issue of Brexit. That is one reason why Corbyn might make a poor PM.
    Intemperate language, eh?

    Well, let’s take Corbyn at his word and see what was being dicussed at the Tunis Conference he attended which was, in his words, a 'conference searching for peace'. In Corbyn’s words: 'The only way we achieve peace is by bringing people together and talking’.

    According to reports, one of the speakers was Hamas co-founder, Mahmoud al-Zahar, who has declared that killing Jewish children is ‘legitmate’’.

    Note how such people rightly criticise Israel when it kills Palestinian children but Jewish children are, apparently, fair game.

    In a TV interview he added that Jews were ‘hungry dogs and wild beasts’ who had ‘no future among the nations of the world’ and were ‘headed to annihilation’.

    Colour me sceptical but that does not look to me like a search for peace and debate.

    The former Tunisian foreign office minister Othman Jerandi compared Israel with the blood-soaked terrorists of ISIS. He said: 'ISIS and Israel are the same thing.' There was not a murmur of disapproval from Corbyn.

    Plenty more at that peace conference in the same vein.

    There is intemperate language being used but it is by those with whom Corbyn is in dialogue and, for someone who, according to you, has fought all his life against racism, there is no evidence that he ever once calls them out on their blatant racism and incitements of violence against Jews.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Mr. Observer, I hope you're right, but that level of complacency helped deliver the worst Conservative campaign for decades (maybe longer?) and the media probing with powerful questions like "Will you keep your allotment if you win?".

    Corbyn, and the threat he poses, needs to be taken seriously.

    I can’t see beyond another hung Parliament. Millions will vote sgainst the Tories, just as millions will vote against Corbyn Labour.

    Depends how a chunk of tories react to a BINO deal if we get one, or how tangible the consequences of a no deal scenario are. I struggle to see the tories increasing the gap to get a majority, but there is a more reasonable path for Labour even under Corbyn, even though I'd think hung parliament is a good probability.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    If you want to go anywhere other than central London, it’s woeful.

    The links south, south west and west are shocking.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.

    I am in the fortunate position of being able to hold all three in equal contempt.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    DavidL said:

    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.

    The simple fact is that when millions no longer feel they have a stake in a society that society is no longer sustainable.
    Which is why I believe that the result of the referendum needs to be implemented.

    Yes, its a bad idea. But not doing it is a worse idea. Much worse.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    TBF most of the shittiness is security and immigration, which is caused by the voters hating freedom, not by the airlines taking people for granted.

    The airlines are mainly responding to what their customers want, which is cheaper flights. I don't think I'd pay more than $15 premium to fly on my favourite airline over my least favourite.
    Whilst I would agree that security and immigration are the main cause of misery at airports I am not sure how this arises from people "hating freedom". Is that the freedom to take bombs on planes? My irritation is that security in particular is driven by a jobsworth mentality where ludicrous levels of security are justified by the very sound principle that it is not going to be my fault.

    So, does anyone actually believe that there is any evidence that having more than 100 mls of liquid in a container makes you a threat to the lives of your fellow passengers? Does anyone feel safer having to take off your belt or shoes before going through a scanner? Has anyone, anywhere, actually used a tablet to bring a bomb on a plane?

    There was this one off story about a laptop: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3443756/Laptop-bomb-used-blow-hole-Somalian-plane-sophisticated-managed-X-ray-scanners-undetected.html but the consequences for passengers world wide of this, the shoe bomber and the attempt to bring on liquid explosives in 2006 have been terrible. The responses to these isolated incidents have been poorly focussed and hugely disproportionate making flying a misery. This is not the airlines fault but it is well past time some thought was given as to how security can be conducted in a less intrusive, less irritating and more facilitative way.
    The voter want theatre, the voters get theatre.
  • Very interesting thread on the Genova tragedy ...
    https://twitter.com/albertonardelli/status/1029619567608426496?s=21
  • DavidL said:

    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.

    The simple fact is that when millions no longer feel they have a stake in a society that society is no longer sustainable.
    Which is why I believe that the result of the referendum needs to be implemented.

    Yes, its a bad idea. But not doing it is a worse idea. Much worse.

    I get that and agree. The unfortunate consequence, though, is that millions will end up becoming further alienated.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    DavidL said:

    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.

    The simple fact is that when millions no longer feel they have a stake in a society that society is no longer sustainable.
    Which is why I believe that the result of the referendum needs to be implemented.

    Yes, its a bad idea. But not doing it is a worse idea. Much worse.
    There are no good ideas from here.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784
    edited August 2018

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    If you want to go anywhere other than central London, it’s woeful.

    The links south, south west and west are shocking.
    Even Central London is a bind. Heathrow Express is fine, but as city centre terminal stations go, Paddington is too far out - Paddington to any other terminal station is a bit of a haul.

    That said, I've worked within the Heathrow free travel zone and used it as a pure railway station a number of times - that system is excellent.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    I’m utterly convinced there’s some collusion happening in many airports, and that the “no liquids past check in” rules are being taken advantage of. Almost £3 for a bottle of water at Manchester airport. OK so they’ve decided that there’s a security risk from people bringing in liquids... why not have some kind of public drinking fountain on the other side of check in? Where people can refill their water bottles.
    I had a five hour flight, and I needed to be there at least 90 minutes prior to departure. Without me purchasing very expensive water either at the airport or in the flight I would not have access to water.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2018

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.

    I am in the fortunate position of being able to hold all three in equal contempt.

    Trump and Johnson are contemptuous. I'm not sure there is merit in determining shades of grey.

    Corbyn is happy to associate with and tacitly endorse the actions of the murderers of innocents. Trump's relationship with Putin is much more unidimensional (how much money can he make) rather than being a political endorsement of what he does.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.

    I am in the fortunate position of being able to hold all three in equal contempt.

    Trump and Johnson are contemptuous. I'm not sure there is merit in determining shades of grey.

    He is happy to associate and tacitly endorse the actions of the murderers of innocents. Trump's relationship with Putin is much more unidimensional (how much money can he make) rather than being a political endorsement of what he does.

    Trump consorts with white supremacists and sexually assaults women then boasts about it. He would sell his country down the river for money. That is evil.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    @rcs1000

    thought provoking as ever Robert, keep them comong
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    DavidL said:

    Another example of the dangers of statistics coming from Robert's video. Our biggest food export as a nation?

    Whisky. Water of life and all that but perhaps somewhat misleading when you are considering whether we can actually feed ourselves in the post Brexit apocalypse.

    look on the bright side, we might have no food but well be too pissed to notice

    mines a Bushmills
  • notme said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    I’m utterly convinced there’s some collusion happening in many airports, and that the “no liquids past check in” rules are being taken advantage of. Almost £3 for a bottle of water at Manchester airport. OK so they’ve decided that there’s a security risk from people bringing in liquids... why not have some kind of public drinking fountain on the other side of check in? Where people can refill their water bottles.
    I had a five hour flight, and I needed to be there at least 90 minutes prior to departure. Without me purchasing very expensive water either at the airport or in the flight I would not have access to water.

    They do have free water refills on the other side of security in T5 at Heathrow.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Heathrow is going to be far more accessible with Crossrail. The extent to which that is going to transform London transport links is hugely underappreciated.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.

    I am in the fortunate position of being able to hold all three in equal contempt.

    Trump and Johnson are contemptuous. I'm not sure there is merit in determining shades of grey.

    He is happy to associate and tacitly endorse the actions of the murderers of innocents. Trump's relationship with Putin is much more unidimensional (how much money can he make) rather than being a political endorsement of what he does.

    Trump consorts with white supremacists and sexually assaults women then boasts about it. He would sell his country down the river for money. That is evil.

    There's no doubt that Trump's a bad person and unfit to be President. He should probably be in jail. But "evil" is another level.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    DavidL said:

    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.

    The simple fact is that when millions no longer feel they have a stake in a society that society is no longer sustainable.
    Which is why I believe that the result of the referendum needs to be implemented.

    Yes, its a bad idea. But not doing it is a worse idea. Much worse.

    I get that and agree. The unfortunate consequence, though, is that millions will end up becoming further alienated.
    That's really up to the British electorate and who they elect - and our politicians will no longer be able to hide behind the EU.....but I'm sure they'll think of something else.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    kle4 said:

    Mr. Observer, I hope you're right, but that level of complacency helped deliver the worst Conservative campaign for decades (maybe longer?) and the media probing with powerful questions like "Will you keep your allotment if you win?".

    Corbyn, and the threat he poses, needs to be taken seriously.

    I can’t see beyond another hung Parliament. Millions will vote sgainst the Tories, just as millions will vote against Corbyn Labour.

    Depends how a chunk of tories react to a BINO deal if we get one, or how tangible the consequences of a no deal scenario are. I struggle to see the tories increasing the gap to get a majority, but there is a more reasonable path for Labour even under Corbyn, even though I'd think hung parliament is a good probability.
    A lot depends on how a BINO deal or variation of Chequers deal is sold. If it’s sold as a stage in a process then the Conservatives will probably hold together.

    If however, as is rumoured, the government are going to spend the autumn trying Project Fear II on the no-deal scenario, then the PM might not make it to Christmas.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    notme said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    .. why not have some kind of public drinking fountain on the other side of check in? Where people can refill their water bottles.
    They do at Heathrow T4....the water's not great.....

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.

    I am in the fortunate position of being able to hold all three in equal contempt.

    Trump and Johnson are contemptuous. I'm not sure there is merit in determining shades of grey.

    He is happy to associate and tacitly endorse the actions of the murderers of innocents. Trump's relationship with Putin is much more unidimensional (how much money can he make) rather than being a political endorsement of what he does.

    Trump consorts with white supremacists and sexually assaults women then boasts about it. He would sell his country down the river for money. That is evil.

    There's no doubt that Trump's a bad person and unfit to be President. He should probably be in jail. But "evil" is another level.
    Evil usually implies some level of competence.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.
    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This cemetery "scandal". I actually like the line being put out this morning about how there's definitely no Munich terrorists buried there. Just the organiser, so that makes it ok obviously.

    As for solidarity with Palestine, I respect the voices saying that the two state solution is hard. It is. But it is necessary, because we have to allow Jewish nationhood and that means a Jewish state. Yes, Israel is doing very bad things and needs it's friends and allies to ease it away from the checkpoints and the illegal settlements. But how did we get here? It's not like life is secure and peaceful in towns like Sderot where missiles rain down. It's not Israel who waged war on its neighbours, the opposite happened.

    Solidarity cuts both ways. Corbyn lays wreaths only on one side. That's not impartial....

    It’s a good line but it’s just chaff

    It will do the job (because most people will think “no one who carried out the attack” covers everyone involved).

    But Corbyn is an evil man.

    I despair that so many people would vote for a party under his leadership and that there are such a large number of enthusiastic supporters

    People voted for Trump. People will vote for a Conservative party led by Boris Johnson. Populists attract followings. Then, on top of that, in places like the US and the UK millions vote against a party or individual, rather than for one. Populism + FPTP is a very dangerous combination.

    Yes. But I think that Trump is a venal, greedy trougher rather than an evil man. Johnson is just an all round selfish w*nker - I don't think he's particularly a bad person just supremely self-interested to the exclusion of everything else.

    I am in the fortunate position of being able to hold all three in equal contempt.

    Trump and Johnson are contemptuous. I'm not sure there is merit in determining shades of grey.

    He is happy to associate and tacitly endorse the actions of the murderers of innocents. Trump's relationship with Putin is much more unidimensional (how much money can he make) rather than being a political endorsement of what he does.

    Trump consorts with white supremacists and sexually assaults women then boasts about it. He would sell his country down the river for money. That is evil.

    There's no doubt that Trump's a bad person and unfit to be President. He should probably be in jail. But "evil" is another level.
    if were going to elect leaders on their faultless records nobody will be in charge

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Heathrow is going to be far more accessible with Crossrail. The extent to which that is going to transform London transport links is hugely underappreciated.

    Yes, it should make a massive difference. Especially to house prices in Reading!

    If they’ve got any sense (yes I know) they’ll keep the teams that worked on it together and have them start on CR2 as soon as possible.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008

    Heathrow is going to be far more accessible with Crossrail. The extent to which that is going to transform London transport links is hugely underappreciated.

    You do know I work at the core of the management team of Crossrail, right?

    It will speed up transit from Heathrow into central London, the City and Canary Wharf.

    It will do nothing to improve Heathrow’s rail connectivity to the west, south and south west, which is where a large chunk of its private motor transport comes from clogging up the M3/M4 and M25.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.
    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    City is a great little airport. I live in Salisbury (when not in the sandpit) and trying to get to LHR is a nightmare unless it’s a day trip by car.
  • Meanwhile, in Corbyn news:
    twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1029616338942259201

    It’s a smear, a smear, it’s been photoshopped.....Q Q Q....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Heathrow is going to be far more accessible with Crossrail. The extent to which that is going to transform London transport links is hugely underappreciated.

    You do know I work at the core of the management team of Crossrail, right?

    It will speed up transit from Heathrow into central London, the City and Canary Wharf.

    It will do nothing to improve Heathrow’s rail connectivity to the west, south and south west, which is where a large chunk of its private motor transport comes from clogging up the M3/M4 and M25.
    There’ll be direct trains to and from Reading and Heathrow, no?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Heathrow is going to be far more accessible with Crossrail. The extent to which that is going to transform London transport links is hugely underappreciated.

    You do know I work at the core of the management team of Crossrail, right?

    It will speed up transit from Heathrow into central London, the City and Canary Wharf.

    It will do nothing to improve Heathrow’s rail connectivity to the west, south and south west, which is where a large chunk of its private motor transport comes from clogging up the M3/M4 and M25.
    I was talking about people in general, not you! And I was talking about London transport links, not so much about Heathrow.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2018
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.
    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    City is a great little airport. I live in Salisbury (when not in the sandpit) and trying to get to LHR is a nightmare unless it’s a day trip by car.
    The car traffic congestion around the airport is another reason to get on with the new runway - the additional aircraft slot capacity will allow BA to run a bigger domestic network, using airports like Bristol, Southampton and Bournemouth. Park and fly, as you might say.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.
    This is where Narita's so great, there are buses direct from all over the place but also you don't have to be rich to be able just drive your car up to the departure floor and hand the keys to the car park person, then stroll out of the arrivals terminal to pick it up when you get back. Cost me like 30 quid for 3 weeks' parking last time. On theory you can do something similar in Britain but it'll cost a fortune, and since there'll be a British company involved you'll have to worry they'll somehow bollocks up the process of giving it back to you.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    edited August 2018
    There was of course a scheme called AirTrack which was going to improve rail links to Heathrow from the south, but it was killed off by then-Transport Secretary Philip Hammond whose constituency the line happened to pass through despite the significant benefits to a large swathe of the country.

    A new scheme is currently being considered but even if it goes ahead is unlikely to open before the 2030s.

    There’s also a scheme called WRATH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) which will allow passengers from the west to get to Heathrow without going via Paddington, but again don’t expect anything to be open any time soon.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Southampton and Bournemouth are great airports. I have arrived back to Southampton and within 20 miutes of landing I have been at my front door which is 3 miles away.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    Why do you need to go into London? There is an hourly connection at Guildford with a through train to Gatwick Aiport.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Not sure what's wrong with Heathrow public transport? The choice of the incredibly fast Express and the link to the Tube seems to me pretty good. I'd also put in a vote for Norwegian Air as a very enjoyable experience at bargain rates (I agree BA can be the reverse). The main hassle is security, and I reluctantly accept that there's little alternative, though possibly frquent random checks(1 in 2 say) would be enough deterrent.
    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.
    This is where Narita's so great, there are buses direct from all over the place but also you don't have to be rich to be able just drive your car up to the departure floor and hand the keys to the car park person, then stroll out of the arrivals terminal to pick it up when you get back. Cost me like 30 quid for 3 weeks' parking last time. On theory you can do something similar in Britain but it'll cost a fortune, and since there'll be a British company involved you'll have to worry they'll somehow bollocks up the process of giving it back to you.
    That’s exactly how things should work. Yes, the British papers are filled with horror stories about companies providing airport valet parking services in the UK spectacularly screwing up.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    currystar said:

    Southampton and Bournemouth are great airports. I have arrived back to Southampton and within 20 miutes of landing I have been at my front door which is 3 miles away.

    I really want Soton to grow even more, and often use it to nip up to Edinburgh. The 40 (or so) yards from train station to security is an absolute life saver. I can be at the airport from my door, if everything runs smoothly, for about a tenner and just over an hour from Poole.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Talking of airports and the demoralising nature; its why I'm using the Eurostar and Ferries more. So relaxing to start the holiday as soon as you board.

    St Pancras to Provence (direct to Avignon) was AMAZING.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    And people like my parents who grew up and lived through world war and knew a time before antibiotics were familiar with death and dying. It was not that long ago.

    Anyway, since we're on transport. Buses and, specifically, rural buses. I rarely say anything nice about Corbyn but today - gasp! - I will. He was right - a few weeks back - to raise the question of buses in rural areas at PMQs.

    They may not be sexy but they are critical to living a good life - rather than simply surviving - particularly for the elderly, the poor, the young who don't earn much. And if we want to reduce our dependance on the car they are likely to become more essential. It is pretty easy to get around London. But the UK is more than London.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    notme said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    I’m utterly convinced there’s some collusion happening in many airports, and that the “no liquids past check in” rules are being taken advantage of. Almost £3 for a bottle of water at Manchester airport. OK so they’ve decided that there’s a security risk from people bringing in liquids... why not have some kind of public drinking fountain on the other side of check in? Where people can refill their water bottles.
    I had a five hour flight, and I needed to be there at least 90 minutes prior to departure. Without me purchasing very expensive water either at the airport or in the flight I would not have access to water.

    They do have free water refills on the other side of security in T5 at Heathrow.

    It does make sense....
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Does ATO mean driverless trains? In any case, the two minute delay is presumably caused either by a train being out-of-service for some reason or just passengers taking longer to get on or off at earlier stations.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)
    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time.

    You’d need a tunnel about 10 miles long, from somewhere around Brooklands to the airport. Really should be part of the new runway project, jointly funded by NR, SWT, LHR and government.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Yes, certainly in Europe and the US most planes are now little more than busses. Mid East and major Asian cities are a lot better, they tend to see people more as customers than as an inconvenience.

    Domestic flights in China and India are horrific, in my experience. The US is by far the worst. A lot of the unpleasantness around flying in Europe - and from the UK, in particular - is about the airports rather than the airlines. They’re chronically understaffed in so many instances, so creating delays at departure, arrival and at passport control.

    "The US is by far the worst".

    Really? I find Southwest manages to be both a budget airline, and - frankly - a reasonably pleasant experience.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    And people like my parents who grew up and lived through world war and knew a time before antibiotics were familiar with death and dying. It was not that long ago.

    Anyway, since we're on transport. Buses and, specifically, rural buses. I rarely say anything nice about Corbyn but today - gasp! - I will. He was right - a few weeks back - to raise the question of buses in rural areas at PMQs.

    They may not be sexy but they are critical to living a good life - rather than simply surviving - particularly for the elderly, the poor, the young who don't earn much. And if we want to reduce our dependance on the car they are likely to become more essential. It is pretty easy to get around London. But the UK is more than London.
    That's the unfortunate thing for Labour

    Corbyn does have the knack of identifying bread and butter issues the Tories ignore, but his exotic past and mannerisms never let them get much attention.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
    Why don't you like the 787? Personally, it's my preferred plane to cross the Atlantic, and if Virgin is offering decent fares, I'll take that.

    (Currently, I'm on an American Airlines 777 just south of Greenland...)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
    Why don't you like the 787? Personally, it's my preferred plane to cross the Atlantic, and if Virgin is offering decent fares, I'll take that.

    (Currently, I'm on an American Airlines 777 just south of Greenland...)
    LOL, as we’re talking about planes and airports someone posts from a plane!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,563
    DavidL said:

    The Spanish example is interesting. Although it has been falling for some years now it was once again coming off an all time high in 2013, according to this: https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/unemployment-rate

    Even now the unemployment rate is 15.2% compared with 4% in the UK and that is despite a significant number of young Spaniards coming here for work. Spain's population has also been rising fairly rapidly meaning simply measuring the number of people in employment does not really give a fair indication of the unemployment rate.

    What Robert's video shows is that (1) the starting point of any series of statistics is key and (2) that you need to be careful to compare like with like to get a meaningful picture but (3) it is also sometimes informative not to compare like with like to cross check if that gives you a different view and to see if there is something going on under the surface that one statistic on its own does not pick up.

    In the Spanish example a fairly rapidly increasing population has meant more people in work but also a seriously high unemployment rate. If Spain can moderate population growth (mainly through migration) but keep creating jobs at its current rate unemployment might fall quite rapidly.

    One should also note that the female percentage of the labour force has risen from around 42 to 46% over a similar period, so the increased participation of women in work accounts for quite a bit of the change - and the unemployment rate.
This discussion has been closed.