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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: Five Things That Will Surprise You

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398
    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    McD attempts to return to normal issues:

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1029505848215826433
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    There’s very little enjoyable about flying anymore.

    That said, Heathrow has got better (provided you fly from either T2 or T5) even though it’s public transport is still woeful, and Air Canada are still quite good.

    BA is only really one very small rung above easyJet now.
    Yes, certainly in Europe and the US most planes are now little more than busses. Mid East and major Asian cities are a lot better, they tend to see people more as customers than as an inconvenience.

    Domestic flights in China and India are horrific, in my experience. The US is by far the worst. A lot of the unpleasantness around flying in Europe - and from the UK, in particular - is about the airports rather than the airlines. They’re chronically understaffed in so many instances, so creating delays at departure, arrival and at passport control.

    "The US is by far the worst".

    Really? I find Southwest manages to be both a budget airline, and - frankly - a reasonably pleasant experience.

    Never flown South West. My US flights are generally part of a wider multi-ticket package based around a return to the UK, so are with partner airlines like AA and Delta.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    F1: Twitter reckons Sainz to McLaren.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
    If the tube platform fills to dangerous levels every two minutes, six minutes is a big problem.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited August 2018
    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    Edited extra bit: on a serious note, saw stats a year or two ago that 9/10 bigwig transport decision-makers (forget the title, sorry) live in London or the south-east. Even with the best will in the world, that'll make them naturally predisposed towards understanding the problems (and therefore applicable solutions) to London and the south-east, without having the same level of comprehension for elsewhere.

    Of course, things might be better if Transport Secretaries weren't dingbats. Grayling, axing funding for northern rail electrification whilst still finding £2bn to try and **** up a priceless historical site by tunnelling under Stone Henge*, is not exactly a tower of intellect or a giant of statecraft.

    Edited extra bit 2: *Stonehenge.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
    Yup: Adonis is an arse.

    There are no trains to Carlisle at all on a Sunday from the southern part of the Lakes. A job in Carlisle on a Sunday had to be turned down because there was no economical way of getting there. Bad for the person concerned and the institution unable to get the staff they wanted.

    Our local (Tory) MP has been quite vocal about the shambles on Northern trains, as has Andy Burnham. But it might as well be another country for all the interest it gets in Parliament and the national press. Wall-to-wall wailing about some poor commuter in Hertfordshire having to get up 15 minutes earlier to get the twins to nursery before going to a lucrative job in the City...... and, oh God, it might wipe some 000's off an already overpriced house.

    Give me strength. I've done the drop off at school before work so I know the stress but a sense of proportion is needed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    ...
    I believe the original prejudice against chocolate was grounded in anti-Catholic animus (as it came from the Spanish colonies).
    I am happy to set aside such unworthy prejudice.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    DavidL said:

    Our opposition is tangled and entrapped in stories of anti-semitism and support for terrorists. Which means that they are largely absent when stories like this breaks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881

    Chief Executive pay increased by 11% last year to almost £4m pa. This is obviously a much, much bigger increase than the average (which from memory was under 3%) and not obviously justified by any massive increase in the profitability or growth of UK business.

    Despite being Tory leaning there is a real issue here. How does our society remain even vaguely cohesive with this level of inequality? There are genuine issues to debate but we are more focussed on wreaths. Labour are just AWOL.

    At that rate Chief Executive pay will reach £10m in 2027.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    edited August 2018
    .
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited August 2018
    Jonathan said:

    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
    If the tube platform fills to dangerous levels every two minutes, six minutes is a big problem.
    There is rarely a problem on the bakerloo line. He is probably on it so infrequently he is using his one journey as a data set and trying to appear man-of-the-people-ish.

    That said, I'd take a B*r*s bike over the tube almost anywhere.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    ...
    I believe the original prejudice against chocolate was grounded in anti-Catholic animus (as it came from the Spanish colonies).
    I am happy to set aside such unworthy prejudice.
    And in an equally amiable spirit I will smile benignly at those who wish to sprinkle joy on their morning drink.....

    (You don't drink cappuccino in the afternoon, do you? With or without chocolate? ...... :) )
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    ...
    I believe the original prejudice against chocolate was grounded in anti-Catholic animus (as it came from the Spanish colonies).
    I am happy to set aside such unworthy prejudice.
    And in an equally amiable spirit I will smile benignly at those who wish to sprinkle joy on their morning drink.....

    (You don't drink cappuccino in the afternoon, do you? With or without chocolate? ...... :) )
    Usually freshly round filter after lunch, so I'm happy to confirm an amicable truce.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    Edited extra bit: on a serious note, saw stats a year or two ago that 9/10 bigwig transport decision-makers (forget the title, sorry) live in London or the south-east. Even with the best will in the world, that'll make them naturally predisposed towards understanding the problems (and therefore applicable solutions) to London and the south-east, without having the same level of comprehension for elsewhere.

    Of course, things might be better if Transport Secretaries weren't dingbats. Grayling, axing funding for northern rail electrification whilst still finding £2bn to try and **** up a priceless historical site by tunnelling under Stone Henge*, is not exactly a tower of intellect or a giant of statecraft.

    Edited extra bit 2: *Stonehenge.

    The Stonehenge tunnel is decades overdue. If they’re worried about historical artefacts that much then either dig the tunnel deeper or dual the existing road on the surface.

    Doing nothing at that location isn’t an option.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    ...
    I believe the original prejudice against chocolate was grounded in anti-Catholic animus (as it came from the Spanish colonies).
    I am happy to set aside such unworthy prejudice.
    And in an equally amiable spirit I will smile benignly at those who wish to sprinkle joy on their morning drink.....

    (You don't drink cappuccino in the afternoon, do you? With or without chocolate? ...... :) )
    Usually freshly round filter after lunch, so I'm happy to confirm an amicable truce.
    :)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
    If the tube platform fills to dangerous levels every two minutes, six minutes is a big problem.
    There is rarely a problem on the bakerloo line. He is probably on it so infrequently he is using his one journey as a data set and trying to appear man-of-the-people-ish.

    That said, I'd take a B*r*s bike over the tube almost anywhere.
    Whilst Adonis is undoubtedly silly, it is certainly true in my experience that the Victoria line at peak hours is only ever three minutes ( or a couple of cancelled trains) away from chaos due to the sheer numbers being shifted.

    Canabalism at Green Park is not uncommon.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    No. Too much vulgar boasting.

    What's wrong with queuing up to buy Towers of London made out of sickly chocolate and nuts with us plebs?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
    If the tube platform fills to dangerous levels every two minutes, six minutes is a big problem.
    There is rarely a problem on the bakerloo line. He is probably on it so infrequently he is using his one journey as a data set and trying to appear man-of-the-people-ish.

    That said, I'd take a B*r*s bike over the tube almost anywhere.
    Whilst Adonis is undoubtedly silly, it is certainly true in my experience that the Victoria line at peak hours is only ever three minutes ( or a couple of cancelled trains) away from chaos due to the sheer numbers being shifted.

    Canabalism at Green Park is not uncommon.
    What was the telly prog a while ago ( found it - news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_day_britain_stopped/default.stm) which showed how there only needs to be slight bumps in regular flows of traffic but across several modes and that's it, we're f*cked.

    A bit like fractional reserve banking - fine until or unless everyone says: give me my money.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Top tip. Look for accessible routes. You can use those often to bypass the maze of overpriced tat.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    No. Too much vulgar boasting.

    What's wrong with queuing up to buy Towers of London made out of sickly chocolate and nuts with us plebs?
    Because I do it three times a week and it is beginning to pall.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2018
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Charles, you’ve already won PB’s traveller award. Even our resident professional travel writer has fewer points and has to work harder for upgrades. :p
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    Edited extra bit: on a serious note, saw stats a year or two ago that 9/10 bigwig transport decision-makers (forget the title, sorry) live in London or the south-east. Even with the best will in the world, that'll make them naturally predisposed towards understanding the problems (and therefore applicable solutions) to London and the south-east, without having the same level of comprehension for elsewhere.

    Of course, things might be better if Transport Secretaries weren't dingbats. Grayling, axing funding for northern rail electrification whilst still finding £2bn to try and **** up a priceless historical site by tunnelling under Stone Henge*, is not exactly a tower of intellect or a giant of statecraft.

    Edited extra bit 2: *Stonehenge.

    I've noticed that people with the surname "Grayling" or "Williamson" tend to be, ummm, idiots.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, since we're on transport. Buses and, specifically, rural buses. I rarely say anything nice about Corbyn but today - gasp! - I will. He was right - a few weeks back - to raise the question of buses in rural areas at PMQs.

    They may not be sexy but they are critical to living a good life - rather than simply surviving - particularly for the elderly, the poor, the young who don't earn much. And if we want to reduce our dependance on the car they are likely to become more essential. It is pretty easy to get around London. But the UK is more than London.

    That's the unfortunate thing for Labour

    Corbyn does have the knack of identifying bread and butter issues the Tories ignore, but his exotic past and mannerisms never let them get much attention.
    It's the hard pressed County Councils which fund rural bus services and it's one of the areas that suffers when savings are sought to fund adult social care.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    @Cyclefree, I had lunch yesterday with a former colleague of yours who spoke very highly of you.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    notme said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    Flying seems to me to be an industry that has taken its growth completely for granted and which thinks that it is perfectly ok to treat humans in ways that Brits at least would find unacceptable when applied to animals. So little thought is given as to how the experience of the consumer might be improved and so much as to how a few more quid might be extorted from them.

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    I’m utterly convinced there’s some collusion happening in many airports, and that the “no liquids past check in” rules are being taken advantage of. Almost £3 for a bottle of water at Manchester airport. OK so they’ve decided that there’s a security risk from people bringing in liquids... why not have some kind of public drinking fountain on the other side of check in? Where people can refill their water bottles.
    I had a five hour flight, and I needed to be there at least 90 minutes prior to departure. Without me purchasing very expensive water either at the airport or in the flight I would not have access to water.
    https://wateratairports.com/forum/countries/united-kingdom/
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    I can't see if anyone else has pointed this out but you claim that the UK is now more self-sufficient in food than at any time in the last 150 years.. you can easily check that isn't true.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    JonWC said:

    I can't see if anyone else has pointed this out but you claim that the UK is now more self-sufficient in food than at any time in the last 150 years.. you can easily check that isn't true.

    I'm happy to supply links if you like, but it - errr - is true.

    https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/britain_feeds.pdf
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!

    Jesus wept, on some days at the moment there is a THREE HOUR GAP in trains from York to Scarborough due to the shambles on TPE since the May timetable change.
    Lol, yes. When I lived in Nottingham (which has a decent spoke-and-hub system but is hopeless if you want to get from suburb A to suburb B) I always thought that Londoners don't know they're born in relation to traffic.

    A more general point is that not just Adonis but pretty much everyone is really intolerant of a few minutes' public transport delays (and train drivers give humble apologies over the speaker - "We are very sorry that we are 4 minutes behind schedule") when they accept traffic queues which make them arrive 20 minutes late in a car with a shrug. The illusion that in a car it's all somehow under your control is strong.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
    Global Entry is fantastic. It's a pain getting it (I made an appointment with immigration in Charlotte, only to be told that "appointment" meant I was allowed to join the queue and, no, I couldn't use my phone or email while waiting) but well worth it.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    As an aside, people outside London shouldn't assume London isn't without its transport problems of which by far the greatest is the continued lack of another river crossing east of Tower Bridge.

    We just have Rotherhithe and Blackwall Tunnels before Dartford. As that coach crash at J3 showed the other day as soon as there is a problem near the bridge it's a 7-10 mile queue coming anti-clockwise.

    There was meant to be a new river crossing but it was vetoed by that chump, Boris Johnson, in his populist days. The economic argument for a new river crossing was indisputable in the mid-noughties and thanks to Boris we've wasted a decade.

    Having that useless waste of space anywhere near a position of power or authority is a recipe for disaster and don't get me started on the implications of his absurd policy of selling off Police stations in London - ask any Met officer how that has helped policing in London and be prepared for a swift and articulate response.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Charles, you’ve already won PB’s traveller award. Even our resident professional travel writer has fewer points and has to work harder for upgrades. :p
    I won't hit 1,000 tier points until the end of August... but admittedly they reset me to zero in mid June.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
    Global Entry is fantastic. It's a pain getting it (I made an appointment with immigration in Charlotte, only to be told that "appointment" meant I was allowed to join the queue and, no, I couldn't use my phone or email while waiting) but well worth it.
    And you use Pre, right???
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Charles, you’ve already won PB’s traveller award. Even our resident professional travel writer has fewer points and has to work harder for upgrades. :p
    I won't hit 1,000 tier points until the end of August... but admittedly they reset me to zero in mid June.
    LOL! Have you got the Concorde-Lounge-For-Life card yet?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
    Global Entry is fantastic. It's a pain getting it (I made an appointment with immigration in Charlotte, only to be told that "appointment" meant I was allowed to join the queue and, no, I couldn't use my phone or email while waiting) but well worth it.
    And you use Pre, right???
    Of course. Especially now it works with BA. I'd just like them to figure out how to make it compatible with electronic boarding passes
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Charles, you’ve already won PB’s traveller award. Even our resident professional travel writer has fewer points and has to work harder for upgrades. :p
    I won't hit 1,000 tier points until the end of August... but admittedly they reset me to zero in mid June.
    LOL! Have you got the Concorde-Lounge-For-Life card yet?
    Not yet... aiming to be 2/3 there by the end of the year. I'm Gold for Life, but GGL for Life takes a lot of work. The only person I know who has it used to commute from Cape Town to New York (via London) twice a month in first class.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
    Global Entry is fantastic. It's a pain getting it (I made an appointment with immigration in Charlotte, only to be told that "appointment" meant I was allowed to join the queue and, no, I couldn't use my phone or email while waiting) but well worth it.
    And you use Pre, right???
    Of course. Especially now it works with BA. I'd just like them to figure out how to make it compatible with electronic boarding passes
    Unfortunately, there's no Pre line at TBIT in Los Angeles, unless you enter via a different terminal and walk.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    I'm in Leeds today. It doesn't have much need for an underground system.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    I can't see if anyone else has pointed this out but you claim that the UK is now more self-sufficient in food than at any time in the last 150 years.. you can easily check that isn't true.

    I'm happy to supply links if you like, but it - errr - is true.

    https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/britain_feeds.pdf
    The graph in the document you cited shows imports to be a smaller fraction in the eighties?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-global-and-uk-supply

    shows the same. UK food production was nearly 80pct in 1980.

    I believe that the graph you show is weighted by volume rather than value so they would obviously be somewhat different.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On topic, I do remember plans for a rail spur from Woking to Heathrow at one time. There should also be a fast rail service direct from Reading to at least provide some connection to the south, west, south west and north west.

    As with housing, people talk about the end product before considering all the required infrastructure and you end up with housing estates cut off from any services or amenities or airports which are only useful if you are approaching from one direction,

    As to the notion of "things have only got better" (as someone once nearly said), as someone else said "the Devil can quote statistics to make a point". Yes, we may all be healthier and living longer but life isn't just about existing, how we live is as important as the fact of living itself.

    I suspect much of the neurosis of the time is built on the recognition our civilisation is actually built on quite fragile foundations. Our society is built on the availability of power, the effective and efficient distribution of food and the respect for the law. Take any of those away for a week or so and see how we get along.

    There's also death which we don't talk about enough. People were much more familiar with death and dying a century ago but it's almost the last taboo (apart from pineapple on pizza it seems).

    The last taboo is chocolate on coffee...... *looks round quickly for @NigelB and @DavidL* .......

    And people like my parents who grew up and lived through world war and knew a time before antibiotics were familiar with death and dying. It was not that long ago.

    Anyway, since we're on transport. Buses and, specifically, rural buses. I rarely say anything nice about Corbyn but today - gasp! - I will. He was right - a few weeks back - to raise the question of buses in rural areas at PMQs.

    They may not be sexy but they are critical to living a good life - rather than simply surviving - particularly for the elderly, the poor, the young who don't earn much. And if we want to reduce our dependance on the car they are likely to become more essential. It is pretty easy to get around London. But the UK is more than London.
    Such issues are far more important to people than details of far away wreaths of which we know very little.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
    Why don't you like the 787? Personally, it's my preferred plane to cross the Atlantic, and if Virgin is offering decent fares, I'll take that.

    (Currently, I'm on an American Airlines 777 just south of Greenland...)
    You in the cheap seats?

    If you were in the cheap seats on American Airlines your seat could be as narrow as 16.2 inches with 31 inch legroom on their 787. On their 777 you can get up to 18 inch wide seats with 32 inch leg room.

    On Qatar, one I'm familiar with, for example, the 380 has 18.5 inch seats with 32 inch legroom, their 787 17.2 inch seats with 31 inch legroom.

    Its not the fault of the plane per se - but to hit their 'more economical than previous generations' targets the bean counters have crammed in thinner seats (so the pitch figures themselves are deceptive, its worse than it looks) and made them less comfortable.

    I did treat myself to a Q-Suite on a recent flight on a Qatar 787 and it was jolly nice. But the cheap seats are horrendous.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    edited August 2018
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Charles, you’ve already won PB’s traveller award. Even our resident professional travel writer has fewer points and has to work harder for upgrades. :p
    I won't hit 1,000 tier points until the end of August... but admittedly they reset me to zero in mid June.
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    Edited extra bit: on a serious note, saw stats a year or two ago that 9/10 bigwig transport decision-makers (forget the title, sorry) live in London or the south-east. Even with the best will in the world, that'll make them naturally predisposed towards understanding the problems (and therefore applicable solutions) to London and the south-east, without having the same level of comprehension for elsewhere.

    Of course, things might be better if Transport Secretaries weren't dingbats. Grayling, axing funding for northern rail electrification whilst still finding £2bn to try and **** up a priceless historical site by tunnelling under Stone Henge*, is not exactly a tower of intellect or a giant of statecraft.

    Edited extra bit 2: *Stonehenge.

    I've noticed that people with the surname "Grayling" or "Williamson" tend to be, ummm, idiots.
    i'll give you Grayling, but Williamson could be your sixth thing.
    Listen to the blues music of Sonny Boy Williamson, or look up the Williamson ether synthesis reaction...

    And aren't you (very slightly) concerned about cosmic radiation exposure, Charles ?
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    I can't see if anyone else has pointed this out but you claim that the UK is now more self-sufficient in food than at any time in the last 150 years.. you can easily check that isn't true.

    I'm happy to supply links if you like, but it - errr - is true.

    https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/britain_feeds.pdf
    The graph in the document you cited shows imports to be a smaller fraction in the eighties?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-global-and-uk-supply

    shows the same. UK food production was nearly 80pct in 1980.

    I believe that the graph you show is weighted by volume rather than value so they would obviously be somewhat different.
    Having looked through the DEFRA documents, you are right that in the 80s, the volume self sufficiency peaked at 65%, before coming down slightly in the 2000s as the system for subsidies changed.

    Volume, btw, has to be the right way to look at it, as value is distorted, as @DavidL pointed out, by whisky!

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Meeks, and trams? They've been proposed multiple times, by various governments, millions blown on proposals and planning, and then they all got abandoned.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Inflation up by the smallest amount possible. Cue the bed-wetting doom-mongery.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45194019
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    JonWC said:

    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!

    Fair point. The increase is marginal, though.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
    Why don't you like the 787? Personally, it's my preferred plane to cross the Atlantic, and if Virgin is offering decent fares, I'll take that.

    (Currently, I'm on an American Airlines 777 just south of Greenland...)
    You in the cheap seats?

    If you were in the cheap seats on American Airlines your seat could be as narrow as 16.2 inches with 31 inch legroom on their 787. On their 777 you can get up to 18 inch wide seats with 32 inch leg room.

    On Qatar, one I'm familiar with, for example, the 380 has 18.5 inch seats with 32 inch legroom, their 787 17.2 inch seats with 31 inch legroom.

    Its not the fault of the plane per se - but to hit their 'more economical than previous generations' targets the bean counters have crammed in thinner seats (so the pitch figures themselves are deceptive, its worse than it looks) and made them less comfortable.

    I did treat myself to a Q-Suite on a recent flight on a Qatar 787 and it was jolly nice. But the cheap seats are horrendous.
    I'm on a two day trip to London, heading back on Friday.
    I am not in the cheap seats. (I bought the cheapest business class fare I could...)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    Mr. Meeks, and trams? They've been proposed multiple times, by various governments, millions blown on proposals and planning, and then they all got abandoned.

    By the time they get around to looking at a Leeds tram system again, we'll have self-driving cars.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    I'm in Leeds today. It doesn't have much need for an underground system.
    How did you find the lounge facilities at Kings X, as we're discussing these things.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
    Global Entry is fantastic. It's a pain getting it (I made an appointment with immigration in Charlotte, only to be told that "appointment" meant I was allowed to join the queue and, no, I couldn't use my phone or email while waiting) but well worth it.
    And you use Pre, right???
    Of course. Especially now it works with BA. I'd just like them to figure out how to make it compatible with electronic boarding passes
    Unfortunately, there's no Pre line at TBIT in Los Angeles, unless you enter via a different terminal and walk.
    BA pretended there was the other day? The security folks then let me in through a closed area so I walked right to the front of the queue :wink:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    .
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Charles, you’ve already won PB’s traveller award. Even our resident professional travel writer has fewer points and has to work harder for upgrades. :p
    I won't hit 1,000 tier points until the end of August... but admittedly they reset me to zero in mid June.
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    Edited extra bit: on a serious note, saw stats a year or two ago that 9/10 bigwig transport decision-makers (forget the title, sorry) live in London or the south-east. Even with the best will in the world, that'll make them naturally predisposed towards understanding the problems (and therefore applicable solutions) to London and the south-east, without having the same level of comprehension for elsewhere.

    Of course, things might be better if Transport Secretaries weren't dingbats. Grayling, axing funding for northern rail electrification whilst still finding £2bn to try and **** up a priceless historical site by tunnelling under Stone Henge*, is not exactly a tower of intellect or a giant of statecraft.

    Edited extra bit 2: *Stonehenge.

    I've noticed that people with the surname "Grayling" or "Williamson" tend to be, ummm, idiots.
    i'll give you Grayling, but Williamson could be your sixth thing.
    Listen to the blues music of Sonny Boy Williamson, or look up the Williamson ether synthesis reaction...

    And aren't you (very slightly) concerned about cosmic radiation exposure, Charles ?
    Nah... will just give me a sunny disposition
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
    Why don't you like the 787? Personally, it's my preferred plane to cross the Atlantic, and if Virgin is offering decent fares, I'll take that.

    (Currently, I'm on an American Airlines 777 just south of Greenland...)
    You in the cheap seats?

    If you were in the cheap seats on American Airlines your seat could be as narrow as 16.2 inches with 31 inch legroom on their 787. On their 777 you can get up to 18 inch wide seats with 32 inch leg room.

    On Qatar, one I'm familiar with, for example, the 380 has 18.5 inch seats with 32 inch legroom, their 787 17.2 inch seats with 31 inch legroom.

    Its not the fault of the plane per se - but to hit their 'more economical than previous generations' targets the bean counters have crammed in thinner seats (so the pitch figures themselves are deceptive, its worse than it looks) and made them less comfortable.

    I did treat myself to a Q-Suite on a recent flight on a Qatar 787 and it was jolly nice. But the cheap seats are horrendous.
    I'm on a two day trip to London, heading back on Friday.
    I am not in the cheap seats. (I bought the cheapest business class fare I could...)
    Fancy lunch in Laguna on Saturday? The kids might like a beach day...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. B, or jetpacks.

    Or we'll all be dead after leaving the EU and triggering the downfall of Western Civilisation.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:


    The problem with Heathrow public transport is that it assumes you’re coming or going to the airport from central London. Trying to get there from anywhere else is a nightmare of infrequent and often full buses.

    I try to fly from City now for that reason: easy access to Waterloo. Doesn’t involve changing at Clapham or Woking from the Weymouth line.
    I've always liked City and the amount of walking at Heathrow is a pain, especially through all the shops trying to sell you booze and fags and sleazily showoff brand goods. But as someone who lives outside London (Haslemere), I think the Tube network is so good that it makes anywhere on the network reasonably pleasant to get to, if you allow reasonable time. By contrast, Gatwick (which is closer to me) to tiresome because the choice is going by car and paying ridiculous parking fees that cost more than the flight, or going into London and hoping for a train at Victoria. And don't get me started on Stansted.
    The best perk of travelling too much is the ability to bypass the shops by using the separate security facility that leads directly into the lounge :smiley:

    Can we have another Gold Card thread please...
    Agreed: that is the best part about Heathrow T5 and a Gold Card. (The Virgin Upper Class security queue is also usually mercifully non-existent.)

    Can I also recommend to anyone who travels back and forth to the US that they get Global Entry. It can literally save you days over the course of a few years - an hour's queue cut to a minute or two. It also gives you access to the Pre security lanes in the US, where you don't have to take your shoes or belt off, remove your laptop or toiletries. Oh yes, and there are usually no queues.
    Global Entry is fantastic. It's a pain getting it (I made an appointment with immigration in Charlotte, only to be told that "appointment" meant I was allowed to join the queue and, no, I couldn't use my phone or email while waiting) but well worth it.
    And you use Pre, right???
    Of course. Especially now it works with BA. I'd just like them to figure out how to make it compatible with electronic boarding passes
    Unfortunately, there's no Pre line at TBIT in Los Angeles, unless you enter via a different terminal and walk.
    BA pretended there was the other day? The security folks then let me in through a closed area so I walked right to the front of the queue :wink:
    Hmmmm... Will try that...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    An ungodly number of people eating Burger King here at Newcastle Airport. With pretty much everyone getting fondled on our way through security I'm glad we arrived at at an even more ungodly 04:10.

    Five things that surprise me? All five are how much I still detest flying...

    When I was a kid in Singapore we used to go to the airport occasionally as an exciting and exotic day out. How did we go from that to this?
    My first flight - half a century ago - from Turnhouse to Heathrow was 'an event' - everyone dressed in their 'Sunday Best' and we were served lunch whose presentation (if not content - I don't recall) was on a par with international business class today - china, individual salt and pepper pots, linen - nice big windows and comfortable seats on the BEA Vanguard.

    In today's money the ticket cost over £800 (£50 then).

    While technology has advanced - enabling much cheaper flying (I routinely fly to the Far East and back for substantially less than £800) the experience has gone backwards.

    The accountants and engineers can take their "lower altitude cabin pressure" and stick it up their harder narrower seats. I loathe the 787 and take steps to avoid it. The 350 is not much better. The only plane I go out of my way to fly is the 380 - big, smooth, comfortable and quiet.

    Don't get me started on the age of policemen......
    Why don't you like the 787? Personally, it's my preferred plane to cross the Atlantic, and if Virgin is offering decent fares, I'll take that.

    (Currently, I'm on an American Airlines 777 just south of Greenland...)
    You in the cheap seats?

    If you were in the cheap seats on American Airlines your seat could be as narrow as 16.2 inches with 31 inch legroom on their 787. On their 777 you can get up to 18 inch wide seats with 32 inch leg room.

    On Qatar, one I'm familiar with, for example, the 380 has 18.5 inch seats with 32 inch legroom, their 787 17.2 inch seats with 31 inch legroom.

    Its not the fault of the plane per se - but to hit their 'more economical than previous generations' targets the bean counters have crammed in thinner seats (so the pitch figures themselves are deceptive, its worse than it looks) and made them less comfortable.

    I did treat myself to a Q-Suite on a recent flight on a Qatar 787 and it was jolly nice. But the cheap seats are horrendous.
    I'm on a two day trip to London, heading back on Friday.
    I am not in the cheap seats. (I bought the cheapest business class fare I could...)
    Fancy lunch in Laguna on Saturday? The kids might like a beach day...
    I'll email you :)
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!

    Fair point. The increase is marginal, though.
    The food security experts seem to be going with 78% as the peak ratio in the eighties.. recently dipped just below 60%. That is not really marginal.

    It's very hard to argue that volume is the correct measure: kind of saying that food consumers are getting their needs wrong. One might as well argue that other imports should be weighted by volume or weight or something.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    I'm in Leeds today. It doesn't have much need for an underground system.
    How did you find the lounge facilities at Kings X, as we're discussing these things.
    I was overnighting in Newark last night, so can't report on the state of King's Cross this morning.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!

    Fair point. The increase is marginal, though.
    The food security experts seem to be going with 78% as the peak ratio in the eighties.. recently dipped just below 60%. That is not really marginal.

    It's very hard to argue that volume is the correct measure: kind of saying that food consumers are getting their needs wrong. One might as well argue that other imports should be weighted by volume or weight or something.
    I would argue that calories is probably the best way to calculate it, but I don't know if that data is available.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    I can't see if anyone else has pointed this out but you claim that the UK is now more self-sufficient in food than at any time in the last 150 years.. you can easily check that isn't true.

    I'm happy to supply links if you like, but it - errr - is true.

    https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/britain_feeds.pdf
    Isn't 'more self-sufficient in food' like being a little bit pregnant? In other words we're not self sufficient in food (and going by those charts nowhere near).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Alistair said:

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
    Bitcoin has utility. It is a pseudononymous system for purchasing goods and services.

    However, it could probably still fulfil that role with a price of $500/BTC. This is not zero, however.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2018
    Alistair said:

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
    Friend of mine sells high-end PCs for gaming rigs, he reports that wholesale graphics card prices have fallen though the floor as no-one is buying them for Bitcoin miners any more. A year ago it was almost impossible to find supply at any price.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!

    Fair point. The increase is marginal, though.
    The food security experts seem to be going with 78% as the peak ratio in the eighties.. recently dipped just below 60%. That is not really marginal.

    It's very hard to argue that volume is the correct measure: kind of saying that food consumers are getting their needs wrong. One might as well argue that other imports should be weighted by volume or weight or something.
    I would argue that calories is probably the best way to calculate it, but I don't know if that data is available.
    I believe it is actually. My wife is involved with the food security postgraduate programme at Exeter - will ask her.

    What really matters is our ability to feed ourselves if push came to shove I think. When you look at it this way it's probably not nearly as bad. We could produce about 5pct more at short notice apparently and more within a couple of years. We also waste a staggering proportion and of course simply eat too much in calorie terms. Back of the envelope suggests we get up to 90% of actual needs very quickly.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited August 2018

    Inflation up by the smallest amount possible. Cue the bed-wetting doom-mongery.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45194019

    Goes nicely with wages rising by 0.1% in real terms which would in fact now be cancelled out.

    Thank goodness the real wealth creators are doing a lot better.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited August 2018
    I've thrown my lot in with BA for another year. Dissatisfied as I am with them, there really is no other alternative for a London based person who is likely to be flying to Asia a lot over the next few years.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Inflation up by the smallest amount possible. Cue the bed-wetting doom-mongery.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45194019

    Goes nicely with wages rising by 0.1% in real terms which would in fact now be cancelled out.

    Thank goodness the real wealth creators are doing a lot better.
    That's not how it works, inflation data is a bit further ahead than wage data.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    rcs1000 said:


    I am not in the cheap seats. (I bought the cheapest business class fare I could...)

    If/when you do end up in them.....I would try to avoid the 787.

    Mind you I also thought the 747-400 was noisier than the 747-200 (stripped out sound insulation to save weight?).

    But just as bosses wages have got better while workers have stagnated or gone backwards, so too has business class got better, while economy has got worse....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Divvie, as an aside, it's interesting to note that long-ish term (decades) trends have varied a lot historically. Real terms income for the middling to poor declined substantially in the 17th century. In the 14th, there were minimum wage guidelines, and more could be charged (by masons etc). In the 17th century, there were maximum wage limits.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Max is going to be pissed off that's he's missing a premium class air travel humblebrag wank-a-thon.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,770
    Bloody hell. He really has no idea what public transport is everywhere else in the UK, does he?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Dura_Ace said:

    Max is going to be pissed off that's he's missing a premium class air travel humblebrag wank-a-thon.

    Humble ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Follow up to yesterday's TSE post about the Clameur du Haro in Guernsey:

    https://guernseypress.com/news/2018/08/15/clameur-de-haro-raised-at-havelet-is-refused/

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!

    Fair point. The increase is marginal, though.
    The food security experts seem to be going with 78% as the peak ratio in the eighties.. recently dipped just below 60%. That is not really marginal.

    It's very hard to argue that volume is the correct measure: kind of saying that food consumers are getting their needs wrong. One might as well argue that other imports should be weighted by volume or weight or something.
    I would argue that calories is probably the best way to calculate it, but I don't know if that data is available.
    I believe it is actually. My wife is involved with the food security postgraduate programme at Exeter - will ask her.

    What really matters is our ability to feed ourselves if push came to shove I think. When you look at it this way it's probably not nearly as bad. We could produce about 5pct more at short notice apparently and more within a couple of years. We also waste a staggering proportion and of course simply eat too much in calorie terms. Back of the envelope suggests we get up to 90% of actual needs very quickly.
    I think it's probably more complicated than that, because we only get the yields we do because of extensive use of fertilizer. Are there any nitrogen fertilizer plants in the UK at all? And we have only a small indigenous potash industry.

    So, if it's "security" we're after - i.e. the ability to feed ourselves if cut off from the rest of the world - then our dependence on imported fertilizer, herbicides, pesticides, etc. means it's a bit of an illusion.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    MaxPB said:

    I've thrown my lot in with BA for another year. Dissatisfied as I am with them, there really is no other alternative for a London based person who is likely to be flying to Asia a lot over the next few years.

    The Middle East carriers? Qatar & Emirates have very extensive networks - probably more so than BA.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. L, "There's a world outside your window..."

    It is an older tweet, but the rambling about London transport did make it spring back into my mind.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    rcs1000 said:

    @Cyclefree, I had lunch yesterday with a former colleague of yours who spoke very highly of you.

    Crikey. Am blushing.

    Might you let me know who said wonderful ex-colleague was, privately of course.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    DavidL said:

    Bloody hell. He really has no idea what public transport is everywhere else in the UK, does he?

    Another day on the tube:

    https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1029448042683015168
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited August 2018

    There was of course a scheme called AirTrack which was going to improve rail links to Heathrow from the south, but it was killed off by then-Transport Secretary Philip Hammond whose constituency the line happened to pass through despite the significant benefits to a large swathe of the country.

    A new scheme is currently being considered but even if it goes ahead is unlikely to open before the 2030s.

    There’s also a scheme called WRATH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) which will allow passengers from the west to get to Heathrow without going via Paddington, but again don’t expect anything to be open any time soon.

    Bonkers isn't it.

    The Londoncentric nature of transport to places like Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted drives me nuts.

    I would love to get the bus from my house to Cardiff Central and get on the train and get off at Heathrow on a line which in a sane world would then go to Paddington, via a rail spur (of what 6 or seven miles of new track?). I'm sure lots of folk in the S West and S Wales and the Midlands agree with me. Instead of which I'm getting off a train at Reading and getting on a coach to finish the last 15 miles to Heathrow. So I drive.

    Gatwick is as much use as a chocolate fireguard to anyone living north of the Thames or west of about Basingstoke, and Stansted may as well be an Amsterdam terminal as far as public transport is concerned to anyone having to go through London.

    To add to the lunacy Cardiff has a runway big enough to take an A380 to go anywhere on the planet but whose rail "link" takes you to the opposite end of the airport to the terminal you need to be for the want of 1500 yards (yes yards) of track. So you have to get on a minibus. And they wonder why the airport struggles to attract business. It's never going to be Heathrow 2 for obvious reasons but 1500 yards of track for a proper rail link?

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    DavidL said:

    Bloody hell. He really has no idea what public transport is everywhere else in the UK, does he?
    Sounds clueless. Got to wait 6 minutes for his tube. Diddums.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    @welshowl - Gatwick actually has direct rail connections as far north as Bedford.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
    Bitcoin has utility. It is a pseudononymous system for purchasing goods and services.

    However, it could probably still fulfil that role with a price of $500/BTC. This is not zero, however.
    I hope you heeded by advice and stayed well away from Tether.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,770
    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JonWC said:

    It also contains the line:

    "The UK’s population is now 64 million and rising, food imports are at 40% and rising" in its last section!

    Fair point. The increase is marginal, though.
    The food security experts seem to be going with 78% as the peak ratio in the eighties.. recently dipped just below 60%. That is not really marginal.

    It's very hard to argue that volume is the correct measure: kind of saying that food consumers are getting their needs wrong. One might as well argue that other imports should be weighted by volume or weight or something.
    I would argue that calories is probably the best way to calculate it, but I don't know if that data is available.
    I believe it is actually. My wife is involved with the food security postgraduate programme at Exeter - will ask her.

    What really matters is our ability to feed ourselves if push came to shove I think. When you look at it this way it's probably not nearly as bad. We could produce about 5pct more at short notice apparently and more within a couple of years. We also waste a staggering proportion and of course simply eat too much in calorie terms. Back of the envelope suggests we get up to 90% of actual needs very quickly.
    And this is without cannibalism? Even at Green Park?

    I knew the threats of Brexit were overrated.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398

    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Jonathan, as I contemplate the imaginary Leeds tram system, and the city's fictional underground, know that I weep for London. I weep.

    I'm in Leeds today. It doesn't have much need for an underground system.
    How did you find the lounge facilities at Kings X, as we're discussing these things.
    I was overnighting in Newark last night, so can't report on the state of King's Cross this morning.
    Private plane from Newark New Jersey to Leeds Bradford - very nice!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Rentool, surely he uses the Meeksmobile? :D
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    welshowl said:

    There was of course a scheme called AirTrack which was going to improve rail links to Heathrow from the south, but it was killed off by then-Transport Secretary Philip Hammond whose constituency the line happened to pass through despite the significant benefits to a large swathe of the country.

    A new scheme is currently being considered but even if it goes ahead is unlikely to open before the 2030s.

    There’s also a scheme called WRATH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) which will allow passengers from the west to get to Heathrow without going via Paddington, but again don’t expect anything to be open any time soon.

    Bonkers isn't it.

    The Londoncentric nature of transport to places like Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted drives me nuts.

    I would love to get the bus from my house to Cardiff Central and get on the train and get off at Heathrow on a line which in a sane world would then go to Paddington, via a rail spur (of what 6 or seven miles of new track?). I'm sure lots of folk in the S West and S Wales and the Midlands agree with me. Instead of which I'm getting off a train at Reading and getting on a coach to finish the last 15 miles to Heathrow. So I drive.

    Gatwick is as much use as a chocolate fireguard to anyone living north of the Thames or west of about Basingstoke, and Stansted may as well be an Amsterdam terminal as far as public transport is concerned to anyone having to go through London.

    To add to the lunacy Cardiff has a runway big enough to take an A380 to go anywhere on the planet but whose rail "link" takes you to the opposite end of the airport to the terminal you need to be for the want of 1500 yards (yes yards) of track. So you have to get on a minibus. And they wonder why the airport struggles to attract business. It's never going to be Haethrow 2 for obvious reasons but 1500 yards of track for a proper rail link?

    You can use the Thameslink to get to Gatwick without going through central London at all. That's what I do from West Hampstead. Ditto going to Luton. And I can easily drive north from where I am, which I shall be doing in about an hour.

    The road over the fells down into the Duddon estuary is one of the most beautiful in England: bleak but with such a view of the sky and then down to the sea and across to Black Combe. I can see my village in the distance. It lifts my heart every time, even in deepest winter.

    Obviously miles away from all known civilisation. Lord Adonis probably thinks there be dragons in these parts. But simply glorious. If my beloved ever pulls his finger out, we will have our beach hut repaired and I can simply disappear there with walls of books, stare at the sea and never have to bother with tube trains again.......
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
    Bitcoin has utility. It is a pseudononymous system for purchasing goods and services.

    However, it could probably still fulfil that role with a price of $500/BTC. This is not zero, however.
    I hope you heeded by advice and stayed well away from Tether.
    Heh, my colleague made a few hundred quid riding the ETH wave for a bit. Personally Capita has been my favourite stock this year - managed to time that one nicely.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    DavidL said:

    Bloody hell. He really has no idea what public transport is everywhere else in the UK, does he?
    Adonis is a a little bubble all by himself.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    I've thrown my lot in with BA for another year. Dissatisfied as I am with them, there really is no other alternative for a London based person who is likely to be flying to Asia a lot over the next few years.

    The Middle East carriers? Qatar & Emirates have very extensive networks - probably more so than BA.
    Not directly, and not to East Asia. I'll mostly be going to Haneda and BA have a direct flight.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398

    @welshowl - Gatwick actually has direct rail connections as far north as Bedford.

    Peterborough now. Rancid Class 700 units, however.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2018
    welshowl said:

    There was of course a scheme called AirTrack which was going to improve rail links to Heathrow from the south, but it was killed off by then-Transport Secretary Philip Hammond whose constituency the line happened to pass through despite the significant benefits to a large swathe of the country.

    A new scheme is currently being considered but even if it goes ahead is unlikely to open before the 2030s.

    There’s also a scheme called WRATH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) which will allow passengers from the west to get to Heathrow without going via Paddington, but again don’t expect anything to be open any time soon.

    Bonkers isn't it.

    The Londoncentric nature of transport to places like Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted drives me nuts.

    I would love to get the bus from my house to Cardiff Central and get on the train and get off at Heathrow on a line which in a sane world would then go to Paddington, via a rail spur (of what 6 or seven miles of new track?). I'm sure lots of folk in the S West and S Wales and the Midlands agree with me. Instead of which I'm getting off a train at Reading and getting on a coach to finish the last 15 miles to Heathrow. So I drive.

    Gatwick is as much use as a chocolate fireguard to anyone living north of the Thames or west of about Basingstoke, and Stansted may as well be an Amsterdam terminal as far as public transport is concerned to anyone having to go through London.

    To add to the lunacy Cardiff has a runway big enough to take an A380 to go anywhere on the planet but whose rail "link" takes you to the opposite end of the airport to the terminal you need to be for the want of 1500 yards (yes yards) of track. So you have to get on a minibus. And they wonder why the airport struggles to attract business. It's never going to be Heathrow 2 for obvious reasons but 1500 yards of track for a proper rail link?
    When the 3rd runway opens at Heathrow it should be common sense for BA to run a scheduled service from LHR to CWL, (and Exeter, Bournemouth, Southampton, Bristol, Birmingham, Newquay... even Stanstead)

    Especially given that they have a maintaince base in Cardiff and send planes there all the time for servicing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    edited August 2018
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
    Bitcoin has utility. It is a pseudononymous system for purchasing goods and services.

    However, it could probably still fulfil that role with a price of $500/BTC. This is not zero, however.
    I hope you heeded by advice and stayed well away from Tether.
    I stayed well away from Tether, thank you.

    In fact, I sold 99.99% of my crypto between November and January.

    I am intrigued by Lightning. If it reduces the cost of BTC transactions (and Ether) to $0.001, then it potentially makes it useful as a payment mechanism again.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Rentool, surely he uses the Meeksmobile? :D

    I'm not the hero that pb needs, but I'm the one that pb deserves.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Off-topic: if bitcoin falls much further, they'll be giving them away free in cornflakes packs.

    Very strong psychological floor at 6000 it seems.

    Given Bitcoin price is all psychology if it breaches 5000 then it is on a one way trip to zero. Orrrr, all liquidity dries up as miners refuse to sell new coins beneath production price.
    Bitcoin has utility. It is a pseudononymous system for purchasing goods and services.

    However, it could probably still fulfil that role with a price of $500/BTC. This is not zero, however.
    surely its more likely that they will stop mining until the price rises above production costs.

    As for the purpose of bitcoin- it's bypassing currency controls in ways that were never before possible...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Sandpit said:

    welshowl said:

    There was of course a scheme called AirTrack which was going to improve rail links to Heathrow from the south, but it was killed off by then-Transport Secretary Philip Hammond whose constituency the line happened to pass through despite the significant benefits to a large swathe of the country.

    A new scheme is currently being considered but even if it goes ahead is unlikely to open before the 2030s.

    There’s also a scheme called WRATH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) which will allow passengers from the west to get to Heathrow without going via Paddington, but again don’t expect anything to be open any time soon.

    Bonkers isn't it.

    The Londoncentric nature of transport to places like Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted drives me nuts.

    I would love to get the bus from my house to Cardiff Central and get on the train and get off at Heathrow on a line which in a sane world would then go to Paddington, via a rail spur (of what 6 or seven miles of new track?). I'm sure lots of folk in the S West and S Wales and the Midlands agree with me. Instead of which I'm getting off a train at Reading and getting on a coach to finish the last 15 miles to Heathrow. So I drive.

    Gatwick is as much use as a chocolate fireguard to anyone living north of the Thames or west of about Basingstoke, and Stansted may as well be an Amsterdam terminal as far as public transport is concerned to anyone having to go through London.

    To add to the lunacy Cardiff has a runway big enough to take an A380 to go anywhere on the planet but whose rail "link" takes you to the opposite end of the airport to the terminal you need to be for the want of 1500 yards (yes yards) of track. So you have to get on a minibus. And they wonder why the airport struggles to attract business. It's never going to be Heathrow 2 for obvious reasons but 1500 yards of track for a proper rail link?
    When the 3rd runway opens at Heathrow it should be common sense for BA to run a scheduled service from LHR to CWL, (and Exeter, Bournemouth, Southampton, Bristol, Newquay... even Stanstead)

    Especially given that they have a maintaince base in Cardiff and send planes there all the time for servicing.
    "When the 3rd runway opens" that seems optimistic.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited August 2018

    @welshowl - Gatwick actually has direct rail connections as far north as Bedford.

    I take your point, but that's still 75% of the populace fiddling about changing trains or buses if they don't want to drive.

    It has all the feel of that great episode of Yes Minister where the Sir Humphries of the Dept of Transport had come from Oxford for years so there were two good roads to Oxford before one had been built to Cambridge.

    Adonis' message this morning (this is nothing to do with his EU views - it's about his apparent Londoncentric mindset) betray so much of the problem. It's straight of the guacamole/mushy peas school of thought.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Cyclefree said:

    You can use the Thameslink to get to Gatwick without going through central London at all. That's what I do from West Hampstead. Ditto going to Luton. And I can easily drive north from where I am, which I shall be doing in about an hour.

    The road over the fells down into the Duddon estuary is one of the most beautiful in England: bleak but with such a view of the sky and then down to the sea and across to Black Combe. I can see my village in the distance. It lifts my heart every time, even in deepest winter.

    Obviously miles away from all known civilisation. Lord Adonis probably thinks there be dragons in these parts. But simply glorious. If my beloved ever pulls his finger out, we will have our beach hut repaired and I can simply disappear there with walls of books, stare at the sea and never have to bother with tube trains again.......

    Thameslink is (or was) fabulous. It made getting to Gatwick from North London painless.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    Jeremy Corbyn “won the Nobel peace prize”...
    https://twitter.com/jamin2g/status/1029448470028013570?s=21
This discussion has been closed.