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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Comedy Central’s answer to the Vote Leave Brexit bus

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  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755
    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    It looks as if the Tory Lord Sheikh who was jumping all over Boris’s remarks for lslamophobia may himself be in trouble for his attendance at the same Tunis Conference as one Mr J Corbyn attended. Not for wreath laying but because of the various comments made on the platform by various speakers, though not him.

    Perhaps he didn’t participate either......
    Looking at his biography, it's not at all clear what he did to merit a peerage.
  • image

    Covered absolutely from the roof all the way down to the ground with England flags?

    That being one of Colonel Thornberry's comments, shortly before losing her job.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    I do wonder why this video from March 2017 has resurfaced? Has Remain still got nothing new to say?

    https://twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
  • Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mr. P, it'd be fantastic for UK politics if Corbyn could be ousted and Labour's rules not Bolshevised, but I'll believe it when I see it.

    If he and his clique is ousted and, say, La Thornberry takes over. Or Starmer. Or... Or....

    Then Cons are in serious sh&t.
    But but but, Emily Thornberry tweeted a picture of some bellend's house covered in England flags half a decade ago!!!
    haha yes I loved that exchange when all those PB-ers who I'm sure live in perfectly charming houses positively welcomed their neighbours festooning their houses in flags (of any kind). I'd bloody loathe it whatever the reason.

    Even though it is probably not illegal.

    Edit: unless of course their nearest neighbours were down the drive and a mile and a half across the oilseed rape fields.
    Our neighbour in Cumbria does have a flagpole at the top of which he has an England flag. It does not bother us in the slightest and is quite a useful way of checking how windy it is. But it is not draped over his house - he is far too houseproud for that, being a retired army officer - and is barely noticeable.

    A bit of live and let live is needed. As our house is currently being rebuilt - and our front garden is therefore not up to Chesea Flower Show standards (more Steptoe than Monty Don) he is having to be the forbearing type ........
    I wonder how his neighbours would feel if he draped his house in three giant flags for a period of five months.
    I'd feel like it is his house and he can do what he wants. Some people paint their house bright pink, some drape flags, some put bright Christmas lights out. It's his house I fail to see how flags harm anyone.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    Someone in this neck of the woods had one at what appeared to be half-mast for ages. It has now been taken down and replaced with an Essex flag, at the same height.
    That may be a comment on how Essex have done in bish-bash t20 cricket of course.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Difficult to say as we have all been discussing. We have lost stuff on account of the exchange rate. We might have lost stuff on account of investment not being made. And we might lose stuff in terms of price rises ahead also. Difficult to nail down and, like my oft-quoted analogy of an extra 10p on booze and fags, almost unnoticeable, but a loss nevertheless. And if (IF) you take, say NIESR's forecast of foregone GDP growth, then that is also a(n intangible, won't be noticed) loss.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Where does she say she thought it shocking?
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
    What an absurd argument.

    As I said the other night and today, she was an idiot for the timing of her criticism, and she was fired for being an idiot. Lots of people have England flags up around England football matches, so only a complete dumbass would time that tweet so stupidly.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.
    It's not like you to deny that people have lost their minds over it.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Just catching up ....

    Has Charlie Falconer finished his speech yet ? ......
  • BannedOnTheRunBannedOnTheRun Posts: 58
    edited August 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Where does she say she thought it shocking?
    “I’ve been down in Rochester … and I’ve been tweeting one or two quotes of what people have said to me on the doorstep, and images that I’ve seen … and then I came across a house that was covered absolutely from the roof all the way down to the ground with England flags – they couldn’t even see out of the window. It was an amazing image, so I took a photograph of it and I put it on Twitter.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/20/emily-thornberry-resigns-rochester-tweet-labour-shadow-cabinet

    Amazing, not shocking. But I think don't she was positively amazed. Do you?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    If you look at what the chap said, he was as bothered about his van’s number plate being visible.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
    What an absurd argument.

    As I said the other night and today, she was an idiot for the timing of her criticism, and she was fired for being an idiot. Lots of people have England flags up around England football matches, so only a complete dumbass would time that tweet so stupidly.
    She knows nothing about football and has no interest in it. So what? That's true of lots/most women (and some men).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
    What an absurd argument.

    As I said the other night and today, she was an idiot for the timing of her criticism, and she was fired for being an idiot. Lots of people have England flags up around England football matches, so only a complete dumbass would time that tweet so stupidly.
    Where was her criticism? Please reproduce for us her criticism.

    Thanking you in advance.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Would make a great PPB for Labour if that prick of a leader wasn't in it up to his neck.
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
    I wouldn't particularly like it, but I wouldn't pretend to be oppressed by it.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    It looks as if the Tory Lord Sheikh who was jumping all over Boris’s remarks for lslamophobia may himself be in trouble for his attendance at the same Tunis Conference as one Mr J Corbyn attended. Not for wreath laying but because of the various comments made on the platform by various speakers, though not him.

    Perhaps he didn’t participate either......
    Looking at his biography, it's not at all clear what he did to merit a peerage.
    Merit is most certainly not a prerequisite for a peerage .. :smile:
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    I've lost business over Brexit. Not much admittedly, but mine is a very small operation. The folks who work at the EMA will be out of a job shortly. Bank jobs are moving overseas as well. I don't doubt there will be some winners from it, but there will be plenty of losers too.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Nah, PM Jezza will be fine.

    And we have all lost via Brexit, only some do not know it yet. We are a diminished, divided, navel gazing country now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Miss Vance, to be fair, I reposted a year old tweet (the Adonis one) earlier and people were entertainingly outraged by it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Why no Rees Mogg? He was probably in the original footage
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Miss Vance, to be fair, I reposted a year old tweet (the Adonis one) earlier and people were entertainingly outraged by it.

    People have been hilariously outraged yet again today by a tweet Emily Thornberry posted four years ago. Nothing, it seems, has a sell-by date on PB.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
    I wouldn't particularly like it, but I wouldn't pretend to be oppressed by it.
    Oppressive as in overbearing – pick up the dictionary.
  • Hola de Espana. If I may be indulged, a brief musing on the railways (before anyone worries, posting on here is most definitely holiday relaxation...)

    (1 of 2) Britain's railways - the bit the public care about - are nationalised now. Network Rail is state owned and operated, with its level of staffing, funding and project scope all directly ordered by DaFT mandarins. All passenger rail operations are nationalised, not just LNER. Franchises or concessions are let by the owner (the state) on a foxed term basis. When the contract expires (naturally or by "mutual" consent, operations revert immediately back to the owner - the state. Indeed, when LNER was taken back under public control there wasn't even a change in management, even the MD stayed in place.

    In private hands are freight, rolling stock and engineering. Freight is a very competitive marketplace, with the former monopoly operator (DB Cargo) no longer dominant thanks to significant investment by GBRF, DRS and Freighliner, with even smaller operators like Colas no longer small. In DRS the state already has a share of the market.

    In rolling stock we essentially have three fleets. Firstly ex BR stock, gifted to banks for a song upon privatisation, a lot of this is now largely life expired and no longer able to be leased for daft money to a captive market. Second post-privatisation stock owned by leasecos, where new operators are able to negotiate significantly better deals in an increasingly competitive market. For example South West Trains order Siemens Desiro units via Angel Trains (one of the original leasecos), new franchisee South Western Railway gets offered cheaper more standardised Bombardier trains via new entrant Rock Rail, and suddenly Angel need to find a home for brand new and already redundant trains. Thirdly, orders tied to a particular operator / route usually at the dictation of DaFT mandarins.

    Two examples. The Siemens Desiro trains mandated upon the GTR concession (NOT a franchise, no profits please pay attention Andy Dipshit McDonald). Crap passenger accommodation being expensively retrofitted the tray tables pennypinched off the order. The IEP trains bought by DaFT at a spec GWR don't want. GWR order a follow-on with engines fit for purpose and better seats at half the price...
  • (2 of 2) In summary there is much wrong. Too many passengers on not enough trains. But with respect to it the problem isn't greedy train companies profiteering. Its an absurdly complex and expensive network of contracts which sucks cash out of the front line into lawyers and bankers pockets (the original goal of privatisation). Its absurd dictat by DaFT cretins who have no idea how the real world works. And its a massive lack in government cash to fund infrastructure to allow more longer faster trains to run. A better regulatory structure, where the shape of the franchise doesn't change every few years allowing the operator to borrow and invest for the long term would be better - and we did have this for 10 years in the early 2000s. What is needed is a comprehensive root and branch redrawing. But that can't happen. Grayling thinks everything is fine and if it isn't then its the unions/operators/his teddy to blame. And Dipshit McDonald thinks we just nationalise the lot and hand it over to the same DaFT mandarins making such a hash of it now.
  • TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
    What an absurd argument.

    As I said the other night and today, she was an idiot for the timing of her criticism, and she was fired for being an idiot. Lots of people have England flags up around England football matches, so only a complete dumbass would time that tweet so stupidly.
    Where was her criticism? Please reproduce for us her criticism.

    Thanking you in advance.
    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    This is a little more recent:

    https://twitter.com/TimSuttonC/status/1024799873793777664?s=19
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    I've lost business over Brexit. Not much admittedly, but mine is a very small operation. The folks who work at the EMA will be out of a job shortly. Bank jobs are moving overseas as well. I don't doubt there will be some winners from it, but there will be plenty of losers too.

    A recent report from a firm of recruitment consultants suggested that employers were being forced to pay increased wages because of the shortage of staff. If true it hasn’t worked through to the official figures yet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Dr. Foxy, I sincerely hope that you never discover how wrong that assertion is.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487



    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
    What an absurd argument.

    As I said the other night and today, she was an idiot for the timing of her criticism, and she was fired for being an idiot. Lots of people have England flags up around England football matches, so only a complete dumbass would time that tweet so stupidly.
    Where was her criticism? Please reproduce for us her criticism.

    Thanking you in advance.
    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.
    Of course, the final sentence of your post is your words, not hers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048

    Dr. Foxy, I sincerely hope that you never discover how wrong that assertion is.

    Sure, I would prefer someone different, but even Jezza is better than the current shitshow in office.

    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
    I wouldn't particularly like it, but I wouldn't pretend to be oppressed by it.
    Oppressive as in overbearing – pick up the dictionary.
    oppressive
    (əpresɪv )
    1. adjective
    If you describe a society, its laws, or customs as oppressive, you think they treat people cruelly and unfairly.

    2. adjective
    If you describe the weather or the atmosphere in a room as oppressive, you mean that it is unpleasantly hot and damp.

    3. adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
    An oppressive situation makes you feel depressed and uncomfortable.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    And what about that book about that Jewish bloke who got into a spot of terminal bother with the Romans in Palestine about 2,000 years ago. Doubt it'll be a best seller .....

    Not too sure that Jezza was around for that wreath laying but if the Daily Mail says so I'm sure that they've got the pictures to prove it .....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950



    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    She posted the picture in the week of an England match. That was the idiocy.
    A complete pivot from you as you scurry away from your original defence. LOL!
    What an absurd argument.

    As I said the other night and today, she was an idiot for the timing of her criticism, and she was fired for being an idiot. Lots of people have England flags up around England football matches, so only a complete dumbass would time that tweet so stupidly.
    Where was her criticism? Please reproduce for us her criticism.

    Thanking you in advance.
    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.
    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,543
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Thus far, since June 22nd, 2016, sterling has lost around 14% against the dollar and euro.

    And a putative Corbyn government isn't 'whereas' - it would be in addition to.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
    I wouldn't particularly like it, but I wouldn't pretend to be oppressed by it.
    Oppressive as in overbearing – pick up the dictionary.
    oppressive
    (əpresɪv )
    1. adjective
    If you describe a society, its laws, or customs as oppressive, you think they treat people cruelly and unfairly.

    2. adjective
    If you describe the weather or the atmosphere in a room as oppressive, you mean that it is unpleasantly hot and damp.

    3. adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
    An oppressive situation makes you feel depressed and uncomfortable.

    Yes it would make me feel uncomfortable.

    Chambers: 2 causing worry or mental distress; weighing heavily on the mind.

    It would cause me mental distress. Not extreme, but some distress yes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    It was tweeted by someone today and has had over a million views already. OGH clearly has his finger on the pulse.

    https://twitter.com/SarahDuggers/status/1029514363122659328
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2018
    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Dr. Foxy, nice that you'd prefer someone other than Corbyn.

    May is a dreadful PM. Dithering, capitulating, prevaricating, and when she does make a decision it's usually the wrong one.

    Despite all that, the idea Corbyn would be better is alarmingly wrong. As I said, I hope we never find out. But if we do, I fear you will look back at your complacent indifference and shudder.
  • TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747
    JackW said:

    Just catching up ....

    Has Charlie Falconer finished his speech yet ? ......

    I think he's resigned.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Re next May's 2019 EU elections.

    Ukip should stand candidates in ROI for the LOLZ.

  • Anazina said:

    Yes it would make me feel uncomfortable.

    Chambers: 2 causing worry or mental distress; weighing heavily on the mind.

    It would cause me mental distress. Not extreme, but some distress yes.

    Why?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755
    edited August 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Thus far, since June 22nd, 2016, sterling has lost around 14% against the dollar and euro.

    And a putative Corbyn government isn't 'whereas' - it would be in addition to.
    If you're being paid your income in sterling, while paying your outgoings in dollars or euros, I accept that's a loss. But, for the vast majority, it's an irrelevance. Foreign holidays become that bit more expensive, but shares and private pensions benefit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited August 2018

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    It was tweeted by someone today and has had over a million views already. OGH clearly has his finger on the pulse.

    https://twitter.com/SarahDuggers/status/1029514363122659328
    It was retweeted by somebody today. It first appeared in March 2017.

    But heh, this is Remain - repeating the same arguments and expecting a different outcome is the SOP....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited August 2018

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Thus far, since June 22nd, 2016, sterling has lost around 14% against the dollar and euro.

    And a putative Corbyn government isn't 'whereas' - it would be in addition to.
    If you're being paid your income in sterling, while paying your income in dollars or euros, I accept that's a loss. But, for the vast majority, it's an irrelevance. Foreign holidays become that bit more expensive, but shares and private pensions benefit.
    All about money is it? And to think it's Remainers who usually get accused of only being interested in their financial position.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Anazina said:

    Yes it would make me feel uncomfortable.

    Chambers: 2 causing worry or mental distress; weighing heavily on the mind.

    It would cause me mental distress. Not extreme, but some distress yes.

    Why?
    Why do you hate pineapple on pizza?

    OR DO YOU!!????
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited August 2018
    On topic - this is a good allegory as the EU is the equivalent of a passenger ship in the age of video conferencing and air travel.

    Perhaps specifically it is The Herald of Free Enterprise - designed for trade but swamped by an ill advised open door policy.

  • BannedOnTheRunBannedOnTheRun Posts: 58
    edited August 2018
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    What's wrong with you? Calm down man. I said having my next door neighbour covering his house in three giant England flags would be oppressive (as in overbearing). It would be.

    You're the one continuing to defend Colonel Thorberry's idiocy.

    England flags go up around England matches. If it's too much for you, that's your problem not your neighbour's.
    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
    I wouldn't particularly like it, but I wouldn't pretend to be oppressed by it.
    Oppressive as in overbearing – pick up the dictionary.
    oppressive
    (əpresɪv )
    1. adjective
    If you describe a society, its laws, or customs as oppressive, you think they treat people cruelly and unfairly.

    2. adjective
    If you describe the weather or the atmosphere in a room as oppressive, you mean that it is unpleasantly hot and damp.

    3. adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
    An oppressive situation makes you feel depressed and uncomfortable.

    Yes it would make me feel uncomfortable.

    Chambers: 2 causing worry or mental distress; weighing heavily on the mind.

    It would cause me mental distress. Not extreme, but some distress yes.
    Thornberry claims to have an Arsenal flag flying from her house, might not Tottenham fans find that oppressive?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,543
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    . I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Thus far, since June 22nd, 2016, sterling has lost around 14% against the dollar and euro.

    And a putative Corbyn government isn't 'whereas' - it would be in addition to.
    If you're being paid your income in sterling, while paying your outgoings in dollars or euros, I accept that's a loss. But, for the vast majority, it's an irrelevance. Foreign holidays become that bit more expensive, but shares and private pensions benefit.
    The cost of imports rises, and if you hadn't noticed, our balance of payments is slightly embarrassing.
    'None of us has lost anything' seems a little short of the truth.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2018
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded, and of course the unions will be insisting on pork for their barrels. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    And then there is Shameless Milne in the background wielding influence and possibly threats
  • TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    Yes it would make me feel uncomfortable.

    Chambers: 2 causing worry or mental distress; weighing heavily on the mind.

    It would cause me mental distress. Not extreme, but some distress yes.

    Why?
    Why do you hate pineapple on pizza?

    OR DO YOU!!????
    No I love it. I can answer why too: because it is tasty. The juiciness and sweetness compliments the ham nicely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've had a bit of think for a while in light of the investigation into Boris. I'm going to stay a member of the party and still actively campaign. I have cancelled my monthly standing order and I'm now down to just the £25 per year. This Conservative party no longer represents anything I'm in favour of.

    What would it take for you to jettison it completely (you presumably have just received the same email as I have)?

    What would you do with Starmer/EEA vs JRM/no deal going into the next GE?
    I don't want Labour anywhere near the levers of power so I'd have to stick with JRM. Labour will destroy this country one way or another.
    Interesting. I mean there's an argument (not one that I necessarily agree with) that says, what with the EU referendum, that the Cons really have destroyed the country. I mean look at us all. Everything is split down the line on Brexit terms and I don't think I can remember it this bad, whatever previous political factions.
    But, regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, none of us has actually lost anything by it.

    Whereas, a Corbyn government might cause us harm.
    Thus far, since June 22nd, 2016, sterling has lost around 14% against the dollar and euro.

    And a putative Corbyn government isn't 'whereas' - it would be in addition to.
    If you're being paid your income in sterling, while paying your outgoings in dollars or euros, I accept that's a loss. But, for the vast majority, it's an irrelevance. Foreign holidays become that bit more expensive, but shares and private pensions benefit.
    On that subject.

    I see Sterling has outperformed the Venezuala Bolivar and Turkish Lira. We must not lose out on our competetivenessto them...

    https://twitter.com/Scientists4EU/status/1029720805805121536?s=19
  • JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    edited August 2018
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    I don't think it would make Emily Thornberry a bad person if, after a day or two of constant rejection on the doorstep, she reacted by making a snide comment about those who were rejecting her. She is only human. There has to be a decent chance that was what she was doing, and there are probably a lot of people that would agree with her about the type of person who adorns their house with St George flags (if that is what she was alluding to)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    Just catching up ....

    Has Charlie Falconer finished his speech yet ? ......

    I think he's resigned.
    Was that a resignation speech ? .... I hope I haven't missed a peroration of superlative oratorical artistry ? :astonished:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:


    "Around England matches"? This bellend has had them on his house for nearly five months – since the 2014 World Cup, which was held in early summer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244687/Labour-front-bencher-Emily-Thornberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

    –-– The owner of the Strood house, Dan Ware, 36, a father of four who works in the motor trade, said the flags had been on his house since the World Cup. –––
    So they are football flags. One of them is a West Ham flag. And Col.Dunce though it absolutely shocking, in the week of an England match (you do know that she didn't know they'd been there months, right?)
    Emily was politically naive, because it might have been predicted that the sanctimonious whiners of the right would react like this. But she probably sent the tweet without thinking. Politicians do infinitely worse every day and don't lose their jobs.

    But, in any case, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the guy was an inconsiderate bellend for draping his house in three giant England flags for months after the World Cup ended. I would hate it if my neighbour did that.

    You would like it, great, bully for you. Guess what? Other people feel differently.
    I wouldn't particularly like it, but I wouldn't pretend to be oppressed by it.
    Oppressive as in overbearing – pick up the dictionary.
    oppressive
    (əpresɪv )
    1. adjective
    If you describe a society, its laws, or customs as oppressive, you think they treat people cruelly and unfairly.

    2. adjective
    If you describe the weather or the atmosphere in a room as oppressive, you mean that it is unpleasantly hot and damp.

    3. adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
    An oppressive situation makes you feel depressed and uncomfortable.

    Yes it would make me feel uncomfortable.

    Chambers: 2 causing worry or mental distress; weighing heavily on the mind.

    It would cause me mental distress. Not extreme, but some distress yes.
    Thornberry claims to have an Arsenal flag flying from her house, might not Tottenham fans find that oppressive?
    More likely funny after Sunday.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    Having been shown to be utterly wrong but still coming back for more.

    Yeah, he's the one struggling here, sunbeam
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    I don't think it would make Emily Thornberry a bad person if, after a day or two of constant rejection on the doorstep, she reacted by making a snide comment about those who were rejecting her. She is only human. There has to be a decent chance that was what she was doing, and there are probably a lot of people that would agree with her about the type of person who adorns their house with St George flags (if that is what she was alluding to)
    She said the following:

    1. #Image of Rochester
    2. I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.

    Which of those is the snide comment?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited August 2018

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    It was tweeted by someone today and has had over a million views already. OGH clearly has his finger on the pulse.

    Remember the Corbyn IRA video that was getting millions of views during the 2017GE campaign which turned out not to be indicative of anything? I guess that was a false pulse, but this one will be real.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited August 2018

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    People want to have cake and eat it.

    I feel a thread in the making.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited August 2018

    Dr. Foxy, I sincerely hope that you never discover how wrong that assertion is.

    To be fair Mr D, if you are referring Dr F’s comment about navel-gazing etc, it’s beginning to look a lot like that.
    I don’t think I’ve known as much pessimism on one side coupled with totally unjustified optimism on the other since 1956.
    Except possibly March 2003! And that was primarily in the US.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Foxy said:

    I see Sterling has outperformed the Venezuala Bolivar and Turkish Lira. We must not lose out on our competetivenessto them...

    https://twitter.com/Banxcartoons/status/1029759110760329216
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    It's a straight lie. Less than half of the height of the house has flags on it.

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags"

    I've never seen (even on a council estate) a house with so many England flags (anything like it in flags on houses terms)

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2018

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    People want to have cake and eat it.

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Corbyn became super popular in Labour prior to the referendum. While their poll ratings struggled, at the first GE test they rebounded spectacularly, and given he was super popular in Labour pre-Brexit, perhaps his followers who always said that would happen were correct and therefore it has little to do with Brexit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    kle4 said:

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    It was tweeted by someone today and has had over a million views already. OGH clearly has his finger on the pulse.

    Remember the Corbyn IRA video that was getting millions of views during the 2017GE campaign which turned out not to be indicative of anything? I guess that was a false pulse, but this one will be real.
    This one's had (slightly) over a million views over 16 months (about 2,000/day) - not just today as Mr Glenn appears to believe.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    It's a straight lie. Less than half of the height of the house has flags on it.

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags"

    I've never seen (even on a council estate) a house with so many England flags (anything like it in flags on houses terms)

    doing quite a bit of protesting there, me old china.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    Indeed.

    Leavers want to fuck business, just like Corbyn.

    Corbynites talk about taking an economic hit for long term gain, just like Leavers.

    I've got the headline sorted, Brexiteers and Corbynites, two cheeks of the same arse.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    King Cole, I don't mind some navel-gazing. I do mind Corbyn being PM.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048

    King Cole, I don't mind some navel-gazing. I do mind Corbyn being PM.

    When the alternatives are May or Boris or Jacob, then Jezza looks ok.

    Think of him as an end of the night two bagger.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    I don't think it would make Emily Thornberry a bad person if, after a day or two of constant rejection on the doorstep, she reacted by making a snide comment about those who were rejecting her. She is only human. There has to be a decent chance that was what she was doing, and there are probably a lot of people that would agree with her about the type of person who adorns their house with St George flags (if that is what she was alluding to)
    She said the following:

    1. #Image of Rochester
    2. I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.

    Which of those is the snide comment?
    I agree that if you were seeking to defend her, you could take her exact words as you have and make that case, but I also know that people, including myself, use the tactic of knowingly using a neutral phrase as a dog whistle, and in my judgement that is what she did in Rochester. As I said though, I don't think it makes her a bad person, nor would it be a massive negative if she were leader of the Labour Party. Her wounds were still raw, and most people don't demand years of outrage for that kind of thing even if they think the same as me as regards her motivation. They understand that humans err.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    kle4 said:

    Miss Vance, it does have something of House Stark about it. Proclaim winter is coming and one day you'll be proved right.

    Sooner or later the business cycle guarantees a downturn. At which point the true believers will immediately attribute it to leaving the EU.

    It is quaint that OGH thinks a video posted 16 months ago might catch on....
    It was tweeted by someone today and has had over a million views already. OGH clearly has his finger on the pulse.

    Remember the Corbyn IRA video that was getting millions of views during the 2017GE campaign which turned out not to be indicative of anything? I guess that was a false pulse, but this one will be real.
    This one's had (slightly) over a million views over 16 months (about 2,000/day) - not just today as Mr Glenn appears to believe.
    Err, no. This is a fresh tweet of the video today. Now up to 1.26m views.

    https://twitter.com/SarahDuggers/status/1029514363122659328
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    It's a straight lie. Less than half of the height of the house has flags on it.

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags"

    I've never seen (even on a council estate) a house with so many England flags (anything like it in flags on houses terms)

    A post that wins this weeks PB Award for Supposition– a category that is hotly contested every hour of every day!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:



    She lied about the coverage of the house in flags, as I have demonstrated.

    She also said

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags. It was just trying to give, to the people who follow me on Twitter, a kind of picture of what the Rochester byelection is like.”

    =

    I've never seen anything like it and I wanted to show people like me what a hole like Rochester is like.

    Sorry that last bit...was it in quotes? Or was that your own work?

    ie there was no criticism, except you "knew" she was criticising.

    As for "lying" - that's a bit strong. Hyperbole I would say. Plus, can you be 100% sure that there is not an England flag behind the van, on the ground floor window?

    I expect somewhat more rigorous exchanges on PB, to be frank.
    There are only three flags on that house.

    "absolutely from the roof all the way to the ground"

    Straight out of the JC school.
    Hyperbole at best/worst. Plus with, as we have all agreed, no value judgement attached.

    Apart from in the dusty byways of your head.

    You're struggling.
    It's a straight lie. Less than half of the height of the house has flags on it.

    "I was brought up on a council estate and I’ve never seen a house where people can’t see out of the window because of England flags"

    I've never seen (even on a council estate) a house with so many England flags (anything like it in flags on houses terms)

    doing quite a bit of protesting there, me old china.
    Sadly, there aren’t such things as Council estates any more.
  • kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    People want to have cake and eat it.

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Corbyn became super popular in Labour prior to the referendum. While their poll ratings struggled, at the first GE test they rebounded spectacularly, and given he was super popular in Labour pre-Brexit, perhaps his followers who always said that would happen were correct and therefore it has little to do with Brexit.
    Brexit has damaged the Tory raison d'être.

    Corbyn is just following the Leave playbook.

    An economic fantasy that won't survive first contact with reality and blaming the ills on others.

    When it all goes wrong it'll be blamed on the establishment, despite the establishment warning this is what would happen when you peddle an economic fantasy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747
    Foxy said:

    King Cole, I don't mind some navel-gazing. I do mind Corbyn being PM.

    When the alternatives are May or Boris or Jacob, then Jezza looks ok.

    Think of him as an end of the night two bagger.
    Still celebrating that female sexuality Foxy?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    But if we claim cricket do we not need to apologise for golf?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,048
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    King Cole, I don't mind some navel-gazing. I do mind Corbyn being PM.

    When the alternatives are May or Boris or Jacob, then Jezza looks ok.

    Think of him as an end of the night two bagger.
    Still celebrating that female sexuality Foxy?
    A two bagger need not be female, dont be so hetero normative :)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    King Cole, I don't mind some navel-gazing. I do mind Corbyn being PM.

    When the alternatives are May or Boris or Jacob, then Jezza looks ok.

    Think of him as an end of the night two bagger.
    Still celebrating that female sexuality Foxy?
    A two bagger need not be female, dont be so hetero normative :)
    Damn, you got me.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    One of the many benefits of our imperial past is cricket.

    Look how much the population of India love cricket !

    You are welcome.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    But if we claim cricket do we not need to apologise for golf?
    No, because that was the Scots. Golf, Ramsay MacDonald, Gordon Brown......
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    But if we claim cricket do we not need to apologise for golf?
    The Scots invented golf.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    One of the many benefits of our imperial past is cricket.

    Look how much the population of India love cricket !

    You are welcome.
    I’ve watched cricket nteams from all over the world. Thailand, Italy are among the less likely.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,747

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    Yes, it may be that we've reached one of those times when voters want snake-oil. That doesn't mean that sensible people have to join in.
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    But if we claim cricket do we not need to apologise for golf?
    No, because that was the Scots. Golf, Ramsay MacDonald, Gordon Brown......
    One nation OKC. And there is the balancing factor of Burns, Logie Baird, Telford, Maxwell and Fleming. We just don't do politics very well.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Dr. Foxy, Boris is unfit to be PM. He's vainglorious and self-regarding to a psychologically unhealthy level.

    He's still better than Corbyn.

    Of course, if Boris were leading the blues and the reds had someone who wasn't a self-declared friend of Hamas as leader then my vote might be going the other way.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    What’s wrong with golf anyway? I like it!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ...
    PM Jezza will be too disorganised and obsessed with his hobbyhorses to do any real harm.

    John McDonnell won't, though.
    Still has to get things past his MPs, and John is quite the apparatchik, and will do well.
    It wouldn't be hard to get the damaging stuff through. Pretty much the only things they'll all be able to agree on are wasteful spending, damaging tax increases, and dangerous increases in the deficit. Everyone will have their pet projects to be funded. A few disastrous nationalisations should also be fairly easy, at least to start with (before the effects of the markets taking fright start showing through in the real economy).
    The Will of the People must be heard!

    .
    Sounds like Brexit.

    Brexit, the gateway drug to a Corbyn Premiership?

    I feel a thread in the making.
    Yes, I fear so*.

    The worst argument of all is that 'Brexit is damaging, so Corbyn won't be much worse'. That is bonkers, because the effects will be cumulative, not alternatives. In fact Brexit makes Corbyn much more dangerous, as we won't have the constraints of EU rules.

    * The drug effect, not the thread coming on!
    But on the plus side England are 2-0 up in the Test series and looking for a whitewash. Which is much more significant really.
    A while ago here, there was a question about what this country had to be proud about.

    Somewhere whch invented cricket can be very proud. A very complex game.
    But if we claim cricket do we not need to apologise for golf?
    No, because that was the Scots. Golf, Ramsay MacDonald, Gordon Brown......
    One nation OKC. And there is the balancing factor of Burns, Logie Baird, Telford, Maxwell and Fleming. We just don't do politics very well.
    Burns, Telford, Maxwell indeed. Not so sure about the legacy of Logie Baird. (LOL!) And where would Fleming’s discovery have been without Florey and Chain?

    I once, when reviewing patients for their understanding of their medicines, met someone who, having a FC B.Sc from Imperial, had been taken out of military service in 1941 or so to work with Chain. Always used that as an example to students NOT to underestimate OAP’s.
This discussion has been closed.