McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
And a giant compared to Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, etc...
If the UK had a federal structure like the EU, Scotland's Remain vote would have constituted a veto on Brexit.
Not Luxembourg which currently has the EU Commission President and ECJ.
Given Qualified Majority voting on most Council of Minister decisions Scotland would have few if any vetoes on anything, especially with votes allocated based on population even with weighting
Ireland has twice held the position occupied by the current Eurosceptic bête noire Martin Selmayr. A country like Scotland wouldn't struggle for influence, especially if it were the closest member state to a large non-EU economy...
Scotland would be about 1.25% of the EU. It would get told what to do and like it. Just like Ireland is going to be when they are out of the Brexit limelight. (Watch that low corporate tax rate come into the Commission’s sights).
Just keeping tabs, how much sovereignty (something you coves are apparently very fond of) does Scotland currently have compared to Ireland?
The first question is not what he would do, but what Brexit policy he would take into the election in order to win it. I don't think his current prevarication would cut it.
This is also an interesting question, but I don't think it's relevant to what he'd do.
You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
I was in Vienna this week and was reflecting that UK airports (or at least the London area ones) are actually not that bad compared to other European and American airports. Vienna for example had only two sitdown eating options once past passport control. Berlin Schoenefeld surprisingly is a particularly awful example of an airport.
I like the layout of European airports, streets ahead of UK, no herding you in to spend money , normally very open eating places / bars and shopping.
In Vienna they had that annoying thing where the security check is at each individual gate rather than masse leading to a big queue and meaning that once inside there's nowhere to go.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
And a giant compared to Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, etc...
If the UK had a federal structure like the EU, Scotland's Remain vote would have constituted a veto on Brexit.
Whilst not quite following your point, but to take up the logic, so then would NI’s. Meaning that a majority of votes cast in whatever turnout in a part of the U.K. with approx 2.5% of the population could veto the votes of the other 97.5%.
In practice on a 70% turnout about 450-500k could veto the other more than 30 million?
That sounds fair.
Do you think it's fair that Donald Trump is President and not Hillary Clinton?
Eh? What on earth has that got to do with it?
I wouldn’t think it fair if some tiny US state with 2.5% of the population (Arizona? Massachusetts?) had a veto on who is elected president.
I have visions of a 50 year old Jimmy Anderson still making it boomerang. Some poor sods in local league cricket are going to have terrible afternoons.
You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
I was in Vienna this week and was reflecting that UK airports (or at least the London area ones) are actually not that bad compared to other European and American airports. Vienna for example had only two sitdown eating options once past passport control. Berlin Schoenefeld surprisingly is a particularly awful example of an airport.
I like the layout of European airports, streets ahead of UK, no herding you in to spend money , normally very open eating places / bars and shopping.
In Vienna they had that annoying thing where the security check is at each individual gate rather than masse leading to a big queue and meaning that once inside there's nowhere to go.
The first question is not what he would do, but what Brexit policy he would take into the election in order to win it. I don't think his current prevarication would cut it.
This is also an interesting question, but I don't think it's relevant to what he'd do.
You don't think there's a relationship between what he says he'll do and what he'll actually do? If he's forced to promise a second referendum to win the election, he won't be able to say, "Sod it, I'm going for BINO."
You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
I was in Vienna this week and was reflecting that UK airports (or at least the London area ones) are actually not that bad compared to other European and American airports. Vienna for example had only two sitdown eating options once past passport control. Berlin Schoenefeld surprisingly is a particularly awful example of an airport.
I like the layout of European airports, streets ahead of UK, no herding you in to spend money , normally very open eating places / bars and shopping.
In Vienna they had that annoying thing where the security check is at each individual gate rather than masse leading to a big queue and meaning that once inside there's nowhere to go.
Was there recently. It’s nuts. Totally insane. You can spend hours twiddling your thumbs only to have a rush at the end to go through security.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
And a giant compared to Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, etc...
If the UK had a federal structure like the EU, Scotland's Remain vote would have constituted a veto on Brexit.
Not Luxembourg which currently has the EU Commission President and ECJ.
Given Qualified Majority voting on most Council of Minister decisions Scotland would have few if any vetoes on anything, especially with votes allocated based on population even with weighting
Ireland has twice held the position occupied by the current Eurosceptic bête noire Martin Selmayr. A country like Scotland wouldn't struggle for influence, especially if it were the closest member state to a large non-EU economy...
Scotland would be about 1.25% of the EU. It would get told what to do and like it. Just like Ireland is going to be when they are out of the Brexit limelight. (Watch that low corporate tax rate come into the Commission’s sights).
Just keeping tabs, how much sovereignty (something you coves are apparently very fond of) does Scotland currently have compared to Ireland?
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
As TM has 100% ruled it out today the only path to it is either TM replaced with a remainer or a GE
The first question is not what he would do, but what Brexit policy he would take into the election in order to win it. I don't think his current prevarication would cut it.
This is also an interesting question, but I don't think it's relevant to what he'd do.
You don't think there's a relationship between what he says he'll do and what he'll actually do? If he's forced to promise a second referendum to win the election, he won't be able to say, "Sod it, I'm going for BINO."
Not really, there's too little overlap between things that will both win the election and and things that will be actionable in practice to have the luxury of picking one that will do both.
A re-referendum is a half-exception, in that he'd probably do it if he said he did, and (barely) probably not do it if he said he didn't. However, even if you have the re-referendum, you still need to do something if the voters vote Leave again, and that's the part where the Venn diagram between things the British voters would vote for and things that would work in practice forms two separate circles.
On Sunday, the former Labour minister Dame Margaret Hodge launched a fresh attack on Corbyn, accusing the Labour leadership of harbouring a “hatred of Jews”. Hodge, who attends a Jewish Labour Movement conference in London on Sunday with ex-PM Gordon Brown, told the Sunday Times: “All (the leadership) can think about is their internal Labour party and their hatred of Jews … Jeremy has allowed antisemitism and racism to run rife. He needs to renounce much of what he did.”
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
How do we get to an election?
Same way we got to the last one!
A faction of the Tories would have to back one, perhaps if No Deal Brexit was looming.
I continue to think that we will be in BINO Limbo Brexit in April though. Transition to an unknown destination.
The first question is not what he would do, but what Brexit policy he would take into the election in order to win it. I don't think his current prevarication would cut it.
This is also an interesting question, but I don't think it's relevant to what he'd do.
It's relevant to what the voters would ask him what he was going to do. Studied silence might not get him the outcome he wants.....
A re-referendum is a half-exception, in that he'd probably do it if he said he did, and (barely) probably not do it if he said he didn't. However, even if you have the re-referendum, you still need to do something if the voters vote Leave again, and that's the part where the Venn diagram between things the British voters would vote for and things that would work in practice forms two separate circles.
I would suggest his safest bet would be to implement May's withdrawal agreement if voters vote Leave again. Take the two year transition, leave the rest to Starmer and go back to not thinking about Brexit at all.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
And a giant compared to Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, etc...
If the UK had a federal structure like the EU, Scotland's Remain vote would have constituted a veto on Brexit.
Not Luxembourg which currently has the EU Commission President and ECJ.
Given Qualified Majority voting on most Council of Minister decisions Scotland would have few if any vetoes on anything, especially with votes allocated based on population even with weighting
Ireland has twice held the position occupied by the current Eurosceptic bête noire Martin Selmayr. A country like Scotland wouldn't struggle for influence, especially if it were the closest member state to a large non-EU economy...
Ireland is a minnow and will be easily outvoted on issues like Corporation tax.
Does Estonia have huge EU influence as it is next to non-EU Russia?
One question about a new Scottish Indy Ref: will the experience of Brexit make it easier for yes (all those who voted no because of not wanting to leave the EU) or harder (if negotiating Brexit is this hard how much worse would the negotiations for an independent Scotland be)?
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
And what would that peoples vote police be? Stay in the EU exactly as before the referendum with free movement staying exactly as before? Which resolves precisely nothing
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
How do we get to an election?
Same way we got to the last one!
A faction of the Tories would have to back one, perhaps if No Deal Brexit was looming.
I continue to think that we will be in BINO Limbo Brexit in April though. Transition to an unknown destination.
We got to the last one because the government supported it, there’s precisely no chance of the government supporting another election before we leave the EU, as the PM has made quite clear today.
Any Conservatives voting no confidence in the government would be kicked out of the party, so unless there’s a dozen UKIP or LD defectors it’s not going to happen.
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
The paradoxical battle cry of Brexityoonery: as an independent country in the EU you'd be told what to do and like it, stay in the UK to be told even more what to do & we won't give a fuck whether you like it.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
The first question is not what he would do, but what Brexit policy he would take into the election in order to win it. I don't think his current prevarication would cut it.
This is also an interesting question, but I don't think it's relevant to what he'd do.
It's relevant to what the voters would ask him what he was going to do. Studied silence might not get him the outcome he wants.....
Sure, he'd need more of a position at that point and he'd say whatever polls best, it's not rocket science.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
As TM has 100% ruled it out today the only path to it is either TM replaced with a remainer or a GE
Mrs May also 100% ruled out a snap election in the past, how'd that turn out?
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
Indeed. Mindless opposition to whatever ends up proposed could cost them dear, and lead to an outcome that none of them want.
In the event of no deal, or a very limited deal, Parliament is going to have to sit 18 hours a day for the spring, in order to get all the necessary legislation and ratification of various agreements passed.
There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
How do we get to an election?
Admittedly, I'm not very experienced in such matters, but presumably Viagra?
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
Because in BINO the rules that the UK (ae in the rest of the UK.
On Chequers Deal terms we would still end free movement and be out of the single market for Services.
I doubt hard Brexit changes the independence narrative much just as Brexit has not (as GE17 proved) but it would likely push independence a little more
I'm talking about BINO, not the Chequers Deal. Where I came in was somebody asking what Corbyn would do if he voted down whatever TMay proposed, got a general election, and won it. I'm not sure what TMay would have been proposing in that scenario, but it can't be Chequers as is, since that's not acceptable to the EU.
If Corbyn rejects the Chequers Deal and goes for BINO complete cave in Brexit as PM after narrowly winning a general election the opportunities for the Tory opposition if led by a hard Brexiteer like Boris or Mogg would be immense, Corbyn would instantly look weak and useless, especially to working class voters
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
In There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
Ito change.
How do we get to an election?
Same way we got to the last one!
No Deal Brexit was looming.
I continue to think that we will be in BINO Limbo Brexit in April though. Transition to an unknown destination.
Transition to an unknown destination is not a bad thing. It will mean on pretty much everything there'll be no discontinuity.
In April Godzilla will not be stomping through London, the NHS will sill be able to get insulin and we wont all be queueing up for army rations of spam. The biggest risk here is to remainers. They've presented a doomsday situation based on not only No Deal, but No Deal + No Transition and equated them as the same thing.
Expectations are now so incredibly low, and the claimed consequences so high that as pretty much nothing of substance will change, it will all seem a bit hmmm.
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
“Chequers is unifying the country. Against it,” she adds.
“I have always said I think you are in or you’re out. I think you either have the freedoms from Brexit or if you’re going to keep the rules then stay round the table and shape them.
“Millions of Leave voters were not voting for Chequers. That deal gives us a loss of sovereignty. We haven’t taken back control. We’ve lost control because we have loads of rules that we no longer shape. It’s taken us backwards.”
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
Because in BINO the rules that the UK (ae in the rest of the UK.
On Chequers Deal terms we would still end free movement and be out of the single market for Services.
I doubt hard Brexit changes the independence narrative much just as Brexit has not (as GE17 proved) but it would likely push independence a little more
I'm talking about BINO, not the Chequers Deal. Where I came in was somebody asking what Corbyn would do if he voted down whatever TMay proposed, got a general election, and won it. I'm not sure what TMay would have been proposing in that scenario, but it can't be Chequers as is, since that's not acceptable to the EU.
If Corbyn goes for BINO complete cave in Brexit as PM after narrowly winning a general election the opportunities for the Tory opposition if led by a hard Brexiteer like Boris or Mogg would be immense, Corbyn would instantly look weak and useless, especially to working class voters
This is true, but at that point he's got 5 years to play with, and they'd also lynch him for doing Hard Brexit and exploding the economy, so there's no winning with those guys anyhow.
And if he got lucky the opposition would split itself between UKIP and Con, or even better 3 different UKIPs and Con.
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
The paradoxical battle cry of Brexityoonery: as an independent country in the EU you'd be told what to do and like it, stay in the UK to be told even more what to do & we won't give a fuck whether you like it.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
It’s up to you as a country though, ultimately.
You had a vote. You voted for the status quo. We’ve all had a subsequent vote and voted for change. When that has been implemented, and there has been a further Scottish election (might be tricky for 2021 but certainly ok for 2026) that elects a majority for another independence referendum, have another vote.
If you vote yes, I’ll even be able to claim my passport from you that I would be entitled to(!)
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
The paradoxical battle cry of Brexityoonery: as an independent country in the EU you'd be told what to do and like it, stay in the UK to be told even more what to do & we won't give a fuck whether you like it.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
Scotland is just under 10% of the UK population with its own Parliament and about 10% of the Westminster Parliament MPs are Scottish, Scotland would be just 1% of the EU population with just 1% of European Parliament seats etc and would be easily overruled on Council of Ministers population determined qualified majority voting.
Scotland voted 63% for Unionist parties at GE17 after the Brexit vote
A re-referendum is a half-exception, in that he'd probably do it if he said he did, and (barely) probably not do it if he said he didn't. However, even if you have the re-referendum, you still need to do something if the voters vote Leave again, and that's the part where the Venn diagram between things the British voters would vote for and things that would work in practice forms two separate circles.
I would suggest his safest bet would be to implement May's withdrawal agreement if voters vote Leave again. Take the two year transition, leave the rest to Starmer and go back to not thinking about Brexit at all.
That is the most likely path with any government. Transition with continuing negotiations.
May or Corbyn, it would be the same, though Corbyn would have different negotiating priorities.
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit (certainly in comparison to the likes of Sqwawkbox etc).
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit (certainly in comparison to the likes of Sqwawkbox etc).
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit (certainly in comparison to the likes of Sqwawkbox etc).
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit.
I am just slightly wary of this one - I am not sure why this internal document would have a No10 header. I know that opposition parties are entitled to access to key civil servants - but this sort of plan would have been Labour generated.
I may be wrong - but it doesn't quite ring true. I can well imagine such a team plan existing - just not presented in this way.
Particularly with it saying 'Downing street' rather than 'Downing Street' on the top right of the first image
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
The paradoxical battle cry of Brexityoonery: as an independent country in the EU you'd be told what to do and like it, stay in the UK to be told even more what to do & we won't give a fuck whether you like it.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
But did your ballot paper say "The UK should remain a member of the EU" or "Scotland should remain a memberof the EU"?
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
In There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
Ito change.
How do we get to an election?
Same way we got to the last one!
No Deal Brexit was looming.
I continue to think that we will be in BINO Limbo Brexit in April though. Transition to an unknown destination.
Transition to an unknown destination is not a bad thing. It will mean on pretty much everything there'll be no discontinuity.
In April Godzilla will not be stomping through London, the NHS will sill be able to get insulin and we wont all be queueing up for army rations of spam. The biggest risk here is to remainers. They've presented a doomsday situation based on not only No Deal, but No Deal + No Transition and equated them as the same thing.
Expectations are now so incredibly low, and the claimed consequences so high that as pretty much nothing of substance will change, it will all seem a bit hmmm.
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit (certainly in comparison to the likes of Sqwawkbox etc).
Are you sure? Is it not part of the Guido stable?
Well they publish plenty of anti-Tory stories as well. Maybe it is all a clever ruse by Staines, but with something like this why wouldn't Staines publish it on his own site, which has a much bigger following / "brand" to get it into mainstream newspapers ?
I have visions of a 50 year old Jimmy Anderson still making it boomerang. Some poor sods in local league cricket are going to have terrible afternoons.
On one of his tours of England Donald Bradman played a match against Staffordshire, where he came up against a bowler in his 60s. He said that bowler was still the best bowler he faced on the tour and one of the best he ever faced.
It was S F Barnes - 189 wickets at 16 for England, 1432 for Staffordshire at slightly over 8.
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
BINO, with some kind of Cameron-esque Free Movement face-saver, and they'll pretend it's transitional. They'd blame the Tories for not leaving enough time to do anything else, which would have the virtue of being true.
I guess the SNP would vote for this too if he needs them; It removes most of the short-term practical downsides of Brexit for Scottish voters, but also gives them an upside for independence, because an independent Scotland could join the EU and get their influence back.
Why would an independent Scotland get its influence back in the EU, it would have gone from being one of 4 nations in the UK to one of 27 in the EU and a minnow at that compared to the likes of France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland.
Indeed Chequers Deal terms Brexit probably reduces the chances of Scottish independence a little as it avoids hard Brexit
Because in BINO the rules that the UK (ae in the rest of the UK.
On Chequers Deal terms we would still end free movement and be out of the single market for Services.
I doubt hard Brexit changes the independence narrative much just as Brexit has not (as GE17 proved) but it would likely push independence a little more
I'm talking about BINO, not the Chequerle to the EU.
If Corbyners
This is true, but at that point he's got 5 years to play with, and they'd also lynch him for doing Hard Brexit and exploding the economy, so there's no winning with those guys anyhow.
And if he got lucky the opposition would split itself between UKIP and Con, or even better 3 different UKIPs and Con.
Far from it, in opposition without the responsibilities of power the Tories would be free to go full on pro hard Brexit with Boris or Mogg as Leader of the Opposition and unify the UKIP vote behind the Conservatives.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
Far from it, in opposition without the responsibilities of power the Tories would be free to go full on pro hard Brexit with Boris or Mogg as Leader of the Opposition and unify the UKIP vote behind the Conservatives.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
It'll be just like the glory days of Hague and IDS...
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit (certainly in comparison to the likes of Sqwawkbox etc).
Are you sure? Is it not part of the Guido stable?
Well they publish plenty of anti-Tory stories as well. Maybe it is all a clever ruse by Staines, but with something like this why wouldn't Staines publish it on his own site, which has a much bigger following / "brand" to get it into mainstream newspapers ?
I've no idea who is behind any of this but vaguely recall someone here saying they were both offline at the same time. It could just have been shared hosting, I suppose.
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
The paradoxical battle cry of Brexityoonery: as an independent country in the EU you'd be told what to do and like it, stay in the UK to be told even more what to do & we won't give a fuck whether you like it.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
But did your ballot paper say "The UK should remain a member of the EU" or "Scotland should remain a memberof the EU"?
The Scots were told - truthfully - that if they left the UK they would also leave the EU.
Where I thought politicians went too far is that some - not all - said that if the Scots voted 'No' they would retain their EU membership.
Even though at that time I was convinced Remain would win if there was a vote, I thought that was a stupid promise to make given the serious possibility of a referendum on EU membership. No politician should ever make a cast-iron promise the delivery of which is not in their gift (are you listening, Mr Hannan)?
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit.
I am just slightly wary of this one - I am not sure why this internal document would have a No10 header. I know that opposition parties are entitled to access to key civil servants - but this sort of plan would have been Labour generated.
I may be wrong - but it doesn't quite ring true. I can well imagine such a team plan existing - just not presented in this way.
Particularly with it saying 'Downing street' rather than 'Downing Street' on the top right of the first image
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit (certainly in comparison to the likes of Sqwawkbox etc).
Are you sure? Is it not part of the Guido stable?
Well they publish plenty of anti-Tory stories as well. Maybe it is all a clever ruse by Staines, but with something like this why wouldn't Staines publish it on his own site, which has a much bigger following / "brand" to get it into mainstream newspapers ?
I've no idea who is behind any of this but vaguely recall someone here saying they were both offline at the same time. It could just have been shared hosting, I suppose.
A quick look at whois, shows they use totally different services for registration / privacy services. Again, perhaps it is Staines being extra careful for his clever ruse, but I would think you would be more than likely to use the same main domain information privacy service.
This is true, but at that point he's got 5 years to play with, and they'd also lynch him for doing Hard Brexit and exploding the economy, so there's no winning with those guys anyhow.
And if he got lucky the opposition would split itself between UKIP and Con, or even better 3 different UKIPs and Con.
Far from it, in opposition without the responsibilities of power the Tories would be free to go full on pro hard Brexit with Boris or Mogg as Leader of the Opposition and unify the UKIP vote behind the Conservatives.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
This is after the Tories have tried to do Brexit, sold these people out and voted their own government down, so it's probably not safe to assume a wonderfully popular united opposition. Also the Jacob Rees-Mogg Working Class Hero strategy may not work out as well as you're hoping. But we're several hypotheticals deep at this point, so who knows.
I have visions of a 50 year old Jimmy Anderson still making it boomerang. Some poor sods in local league cricket are going to have terrible afternoons.
On one of his tours of England Donald Bradman played a match against Staffordshire, where he came up against a bowler in his 60s. He said that bowler was still the best bowler he faced on the tour and one of the best he ever faced.
It was S F Barnes - 189 wickets at 16 for England, 1432 for Staffordshire at slightly over 8.
Oh, and he was from Chadsmoor where I now live.
In just about everyone’s all time England 11. A real professional - which is why he didn’t play anywhere near as often as he might for England...
Who are RedRoar? Is this the inverse of all those websites posting pro-Corbyn stories and with as much credibility, or are they legit? I don’t want to believe something on the web just because I want it to be true (I think that last sentance made sense..)
They are a left of centre site. So far their stories have been found to be legit.
I am just slightly wary of this one - I am not sure why this internal document would have a No10 header. I know that opposition parties are entitled to access to key civil servants - but this sort of plan would have been Labour generated.
I may be wrong - but it doesn't quite ring true. I can well imagine such a team plan existing - just not presented in this way.
Particularly with it saying 'Downing street' rather than 'Downing Street' on the top right of the first image
It’s also in Excel. Ew.
Word is awful for creating boxes. I would use Excel for that sort of plan
Not as much of course. But you just had a vote and decided to keep the status quo.
The paradoxical battle cry of Brexityoonery: as an independent country in the EU you'd be told what to do and like it, stay in the UK to be told even more what to do & we won't give a fuck whether you like it.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
Scotland is just under 10% of the UK population with its own Parliament and about 10% of the Westminster Parliament MPs are Scottish, Scotland would be just 1% of the EU population with just 1% of European Parliament seats etc and would be easily overruled on Council of Ministers population determined qualified majority voting.
Scotland voted 63% for Unionist parties at GE17 after the Brexit vote
Yeah, bloody EU outvoting us on going to war, welfare policy, foreign policy, fiscal policy, defence, broadcasting, trade and industry, renewables, nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity, the constitution and immigration.
What's that you say, we'd be allowed to make almost all our own decisions on those? Well I never.
This is true, but at that point he's got 5 years to play with, and they'd also lynch him for doing Hard Brexit and exploding the economy, so there's no winning with those guys anyhow.
And if he got lucky the opposition would split itself between UKIP and Con, or even better 3 different UKIPs and Con.
Far from it, in opposition without the responsibilities of power the Tories would be free to go full on pro hard Brexit with Boris or Mogg as Leader of the Opposition and unify the UKIP vote behind the Conservatives.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
This is after the Tories have tried to do Brexit, sold these people out and voted their own government down, so it's probably not safe to assume a wonderfully popular united opposition. Also the Jacob Rees-Mogg Working Class Hero strategy may not work out as well as you're hoping. But we're several hypotheticals deep at this point, so who knows.
I'm surprised HYUFD isn't predicting that the Jacob Rees-Mogg Tory party will stand candidates in Dublin on an Irexit platform.
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security
Magnificant speech by Gordon Brown urging he Labour Party to adopt the full definition of anti-semitism and to do it immediately and without question.
Being shown live on Sky News.
Hell will freeze over before they will do that.
Ironically, Labour adopted the IHRA definition, or most of it anyway, before the Conservative Party.
"most of it" can cover a multitude of sins.
It's amazing how easily Labour and Corbyn could have stopped this story months ago by doing the right thing. Yet they have sunk deeper into the cess by avoiding doing the right thing.
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security
Now all they need do is forget to let them leave....!
I still remember the disbelief from the reality based wing of the PLP when despite having an intelligence briefing Jezza was still unwilling to blame Russia. It was clear from what May and Boris (and other world leaders) said that the intelligence services clearly had significant evidence that Putin ordered the hit.
Magnificant speech by Gordon Brown urging he Labour Party to adopt the full definition of anti-semitism and to do it immediately and without question.
Being shown live on Sky News.
Hell will freeze over before they will do that.
Ironically, Labour adopted the IHRA definition, or most of it anyway, before the Conservative Party.
"most of it" can cover a multitude of sins.
It's amazing how easily Labour and Corbyn could have stopped this story months ago by doing the right thing. Yet they have sunk deeper into the cess by avoiding doing the right thing.
Indeed but it is worth pointing out from time to time that the blue team did nothing at all until prompted by Labour's flounderings.
But Corbyn could not shut it down because of the historical record. Note that most or all of the clips come from before the IHRA definition. They'd still be there and still be used against him.
Far from it, in opposition without the responsibilities of power the Tories would be free to go full on pro hard Brexit with Boris or Mogg as Leader of the Opposition and unify the UKIP vote behind the Conservatives.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
It'll be just like the glory days of Hague and IDS...
Except a weak Corbyn will be rather easier to beat than a strong Blair was then
McDonnell confirms Labour policy is not to have a second EU referendum and would instead call for a general election first to judge any Deal or no Deal with the EU
So Labour will vote against any Brexit deal, in the hope that this will force a general election, where Labour will win a majority, and then be able to implement - er, what, exactly on Brexit?
The chance of no specific deal at all being able to pass the Commons gets higher every day.
The question is will Labour take it to the point of actually leaving with no deal, given that very few of them want that outcome and they could end up with a fair amount of the blame?
If May has a deal with the EU, but Labour works with Mogg to bring it down (for its own naked ambition to bring the Govt. down then win an election) - then Labour will own No Deal Brexit.....
In There’s no chance whatsoever of an election before we leave the EU, unless several Conservative or DUP MPs are prepared to cross the floor to no-confidence their own government (and be expelled from their party).
If we were to have a GE, and a new government of whatever stripe, then that would be a vey valid reason to withraw or extend A50 to allow a new negotiation. That may well involve a #peoplesvote depending on the new government.
Ito change.
How do we get to an election?
Same way we got to the last one!
No Deal Brexit was looming.
I continue to think that we will be in BINO Limbo Brexit in April though. Transition to an unknown destination.
Transition to an unknown destination is not a bad thing. It will mean on pretty much everything there'll be no discontinuity.
In April Godzilla will not be stomping through London, the NHS will sill be able to get insulin and we wont all be queueing up for army rations of spam. The biggest risk here is to remainers. They've presented a doomsday situation based on not only No Deal, but No Deal + No Transition and equated them as the same thing.
Expectations are now so incredibly low, and the claimed consequences so high that as pretty much nothing of substance will change, it will all seem a bit hmmm.
I think Limbo BINO Brexit is probably the best way forward. Clearly the nation is not unified behind any particular plan. Better to leave Schrodingers cat undisturbed until we know.
This is true, but at that point he's got 5 years to play with, and they'd also lynch him for doing Hard Brexit and exploding the economy, so there's no winning with those guys anyhow.
And if he got lucky the opposition would split itself between UKIP and Con, or even better 3 different UKIPs and Con.
Far from it, in opposition without the responsibilities of power the Tories would be free to go full on pro hard Brexit with Boris or Mogg as Leader of the Opposition and unify the UKIP vote behind the Conservatives.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
This is after the Tories have tried to do Brexit, sold these people out and voted their own government down, so it's probably not safe to assume a wonderfully popular united opposition. Also the Jacob Rees-Mogg Working Class Hero strategy may not work out as well as you're hoping. But we're several hypotheticals deep at this point, so who knows.
The Tory PM will have tried to push through a Chequers Deal but there is no doubt most Tory voters are strong Leavers and would rally behind a Mogg or Boris leadership, as would a good deal of working class voters who are also strong Leavers. Boris as he showed in the London Mayoral elections and the referendum has strong appeal to skilled working class C2 voters in particular
Magnificant speech by Gordon Brown urging he Labour Party to adopt the full definition of anti-semitism and to do it immediately and without question.
Being shown live on Sky News.
Hell will freeze over before they will do that.
Ironically, Labour adopted the IHRA definition, or most of it anyway, before the Conservative Party.
"most of it" can cover a multitude of sins.
It's amazing how easily Labour and Corbyn could have stopped this story months ago by doing the right thing. Yet they have sunk deeper into the cess by avoiding doing the right thing.
Indeed but it is worth pointing out from time to time that the blue team did nothing at all until prompted by Labour's flounderings.
Frankly, there was little need to as they weren't led by an anti-Semitic leader with loads of anti-Semitic followers. But I'm glad they've done so.
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security
Comments
And Corbyn wants to muzzle the free press ...
I wouldn’t think it fair if some tiny US state with 2.5% of the population (Arizona? Massachusetts?) had a veto on who is elected president.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1036182320523431936?s=20
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1035849570960506880?s=20
Crap airport.
I noted McDonnell was typically canny on Marr to state that a #peoplesvote is not Labour party policy, but careful to not rule out that policy as subject to change.
A re-referendum is a half-exception, in that he'd probably do it if he said he did, and (barely) probably not do it if he said he didn't. However, even if you have the re-referendum, you still need to do something if the voters vote Leave again, and that's the part where the Venn diagram between things the British voters would vote for and things that would work in practice forms two separate circles.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/corbynites-labour-rule-changes-remove-mps-hard-left
A faction of the Tories would have to back one, perhaps if No Deal Brexit was looming.
I continue to think that we will be in BINO Limbo Brexit in April though. Transition to an unknown destination.
A woman has apparently been arrested as well.
Does Estonia have huge EU influence as it is next to non-EU Russia?
Any Conservatives voting no confidence in the government would be kicked out of the party, so unless there’s a dozen UKIP or LD defectors it’s not going to happen.
We (the Scots) had an even more recent vote on retaining EU membership, something that previously we were assured would be secured by voting No.
Terrifying.
[Sunil suddenly clutches his head, screaming, as his Tebbit Chip kicks in...]
Aaarrrrrgh!!
[...before a more servile exprsssion crosses his face]
Must be loyal to India... must... be... loyal...
Oh....
In April Godzilla will not be stomping through London, the NHS will sill be able to get insulin and we wont all be queueing up for army rations of spam. The biggest risk here is to remainers. They've presented a doomsday situation based on not only No Deal, but No Deal + No Transition and equated them as the same thing.
Expectations are now so incredibly low, and the claimed consequences so high that as pretty much nothing of substance will change, it will all seem a bit hmmm.
“Chequers is unifying the country. Against it,” she adds.
“I have always said I think you are in or you’re out. I think you either have the freedoms from Brexit or if you’re going to keep the rules then stay round the table and shape them.
“Millions of Leave voters were not voting for Chequers. That deal gives us a loss of sovereignty. We haven’t taken back control. We’ve lost control because we have loads of rules that we no longer shape. It’s taken us backwards.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/justine-greening-interview-what-is-your-plan-for-the-country-boris_uk_5b87aeeee4b0cf7b00325bb4
And if he got lucky the opposition would split itself between UKIP and Con, or even better 3 different UKIPs and Con.
You had a vote. You voted for the status quo. We’ve all had a subsequent vote and voted for change. When that has been implemented, and there has been a further Scottish election (might be tricky for 2021 but certainly ok for 2026) that elects a majority for another independence referendum, have another vote.
If you vote yes, I’ll even be able to claim my passport from you that I would be entitled to(!)
Scotland voted 63% for Unionist parties at GE17 after the Brexit vote
May or Corbyn, it would be the same, though Corbyn would have different negotiating priorities.
I may be wrong - but it doesn't quite ring true. I can well imagine such a team plan existing - just not presented in this way.
Particularly with it saying 'Downing street' rather than 'Downing Street' on the top right of the first image
If either are out cheaply, we're into the all-rounders none of whom are in great form.
Did Theresa loan Jezza some notepaper? or is it simply a letterhead posted on an Excel spreadsheet?
https://twitter.com/aftkiloalpha/status/1036202851423477761?s=19
RedRoar is not a Labour site.
It was S F Barnes - 189 wickets at 16 for England, 1432 for Staffordshire at slightly over 8.
Oh, and he was from Chadsmoor where I now live.
Being shown live on Sky News.
Meanwhile PM 'cave in' Corbyn as he would soon be known by Boris would be quickly on the ropes trying to push through his unaffordable promises while being pushed around by the EU in BINO
Yes, next wicket or two and it’s all over. Hope everyone laid the draw at 4 or 5 on the first morning.
Where I thought politicians went too far is that some - not all - said that if the Scots voted 'No' they would retain their EU membership.
Even though at that time I was convinced Remain would win if there was a vote, I thought that was a stupid promise to make given the serious possibility of a referendum on EU membership. No politician should ever make a cast-iron promise the delivery of which is not in their gift (are you listening, Mr Hannan)?
https://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rlweiss/473/rog-elan.htm
A real professional - which is why he didn’t play anywhere near as often as he might for England...
...and would have loved 20/20.
What's that you say, we'd be allowed to make almost all our own decisions on those? Well I never.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6123541/MI5-chief-summons-Jeremy-Corbyn-facts-life-briefing-Britains-terror-threat.html
I said after 2010 that Merseyside has the voting patterns of an ethnic minority and that map highlights it.
Of course Liverpool had a history of voting along ethnic lines but along Irish Nationalist / Unionist lines.
It's amazing how easily Labour and Corbyn could have stopped this story months ago by doing the right thing. Yet they have sunk deeper into the cess by avoiding doing the right thing.
But Corbyn could not shut it down because of the historical record. Note that most or all of the clips come from before the IHRA definition. They'd still be there and still be used against him.
Why haven't Labour?