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  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Honestly. Our goods will be transported by unicorns, of course.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Loq
    Fenman said:

    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Honestly. Our goods will be transported by unicorns, of course.
    Lolling at remainers thinking the EU will stop supermarket procurement departments having their way. The naiveity is awesome.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    Fenman said:

    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Honestly. Our goods will be transported by unicorns, of course.
    Red, white and blue unicorns, no less.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    TGOHF said:

    Loq

    Fenman said:

    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Honestly. Our goods will be transported by unicorns, of course.
    Lolling at remainers thinking the EU will stop supermarket procurement departments having their way. The naiveity is awesome.
    Of course the EU will offer a solution that prevents goods being distributed. The problem is that what they will ask in return will count as “betrayal” for the Brexiteers.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I

    TGOHF said:

    Loq

    Fenman said:

    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Honestly. Our goods will be transported by unicorns, of course.
    Lolling at remainers thinking the EU will stop supermarket procurement departments having their way. The naiveity is awesome.
    Of course the EU will offer a solution that prevents goods being distributed. The problem is that what they will ask in return will count as “betrayal” for the Brexiteers.
    If the EU can block Cape Town oranges from entering Southampton then we won’t have left.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Turkish investigators have claimed video and audio recordings exist that prove Jamal Khashoggi was killed, a sign that Ankara is willing to keep up the pressure on Riyadh to back up its claims it has nothing to do with the dissident journalist’s disappearance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/recordings-prove-jamal-khashoggi-killed-turkish-investigators-claim

    Tricky balancing act for the Turks.....given they've evidently bugged the Saudi Consulate

    Apparently Jamal was wearing an Apple Watch which recorded parts of his interrogation, torture and murder which thrn synced to the cloud.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    Charles said:

    Turkish investigators have claimed video and audio recordings exist that prove Jamal Khashoggi was killed, a sign that Ankara is willing to keep up the pressure on Riyadh to back up its claims it has nothing to do with the dissident journalist’s disappearance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/recordings-prove-jamal-khashoggi-killed-turkish-investigators-claim

    Tricky balancing act for the Turks.....given they've evidently bugged the Saudi Consulate

    That was my thought: they really care about this given that they are revealing this

    Edit sceptical in the Apple Watch story
    If it was in the Saudi consulate what can be done? Does Saudi punch below it's weight? They seem to have been beaten by tiny Qatar.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    For the overwhelming majority of people, Leave means stopping immigration and more money for the NHS. That was the sum of the Leave campaign.

    The foaming of the hardcore about obscure trading points is strictly the preserve of the nutjobs.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Booth, incidentally, is Qatar still blockaded by its neighbours? There was sod all media coverage of it at the time, and I have no idea how that's progressing, or not.

    Mr. Meeks, did you read about persuading people by calling them nutjobs in the same book that advised the way to calm a woman down is by telling her she's overreacting? :p
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited October 2018
    Hardly anyone in the country (dropping to none among Leavers) has the slightest idea what any of it means let alone where we're up to.

    'Canada plus plus' EEA ERG Irish Backstops hard Brexit Soft Brexit Cliff edge Chequers WTO Customs Union...... It's all jibberish. A code understood by a tiny minority of obsessional people. The Remainers worry it's taking us to Hell in a hand-cart . The Leavers think the same but don't care.

    It's Bullshit Bingo and time for someone...ANYONE to call HOUSE
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Booth, incidentally, is Qatar still blockaded by its neighbours? There was sod all media coverage of it at the time, and I have no idea how that's progressing, or not.

    Mr. Meeks, did you read about persuading people by calling them nutjobs in the same book that advised the way to calm a woman down is by telling her she's overreacting? :p

    I’m not trying to persuade anyone. That would be a waste of time on here. So I have the luxury of telling it how it is.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mr. Booth, incidentally, is Qatar still blockaded by its neighbours? There was sod all media coverage of it at the time, and I have no idea how that's progressing, or not.

    Mr. Meeks, did you read about persuading people by calling them nutjobs in the same book that advised the way to calm a woman down is by telling her she's overreacting? :p

    I’m not trying to persuade anyone. That would be a waste of time on here. So I have the luxury of telling it how it is.
    But with such a magnanimous tone - it’s what makes your posts so engaging...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    For the overwhelming majority of people, Leave means stopping immigration and more money for the NHS. That was the sum of the Leave campaign.

    The foaming of the hardcore about obscure trading points is strictly the preserve of the nutjobs.

    However, the repetition of the line, "This isn't the Brexit people voted for," serves the political purpose of making it possible for Leave voters to absolve themselves of responsibility if/when Brexit is a disaster.

    Its inaccuracy is its virtue.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Roger said:

    Hardly anyone in the country (dropping to none among Leavers) has the slightest idea what any of it means let alone where we're up to.

    'Canada plus plus' EEA ERG Irish Backstops hard Brexit Soft Brexit Cliff edge Chequers WTO Customs Union...... It's all jibberish. A code understood by a tiny minority of obsessional people. The Remainers worry it's taking us to Hell in a hand-cart . The Leavers think the same but don't care.

    It's Bullshit Bingo and time for someone...ANYONE to call HOUSE

    It’s a clear strategy. The longer we are bogged down debating this stuff, the nearer the default scenario becomes reality. Tick tock, tick tock. Enough people want a no deal / remain showdown to make it happen. Tick tock, tick tock.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited October 2018

    Charles said:

    Turkish investigators have claimed video and audio recordings exist that prove Jamal Khashoggi was killed, a sign that Ankara is willing to keep up the pressure on Riyadh to back up its claims it has nothing to do with the dissident journalist’s disappearance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/recordings-prove-jamal-khashoggi-killed-turkish-investigators-claim

    Tricky balancing act for the Turks.....given they've evidently bugged the Saudi Consulate

    That was my thought: they really care about this given that they are revealing this

    Edit sceptical in the Apple Watch story
    If it was in the Saudi consulate what can be done? Does Saudi punch below it's weight? They seem to have been beaten by tiny Qatar.
    Though the loss of the Saudi journalist is sad it's as well that the Western world now know what has been known in the region for a very long time. Forget Iran Iraq Syria Hezzbollah etc the real baddies have always been the Saudis. They might buy our arms but Assad and Saddam never whipped women for driving cars or publically beheaded women and children for smoking dope
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
    First 4 aren’t in the EU so business as usual.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Turkish investigators have claimed video and audio recordings exist that prove Jamal Khashoggi was killed, a sign that Ankara is willing to keep up the pressure on Riyadh to back up its claims it has nothing to do with the dissident journalist’s disappearance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/recordings-prove-jamal-khashoggi-killed-turkish-investigators-claim

    Tricky balancing act for the Turks.....given they've evidently bugged the Saudi Consulate

    That was my thought: they really care about this given that they are revealing this

    Edit sceptical in the Apple Watch story
    If it was in the Saudi consulate what can be done? Does Saudi punch below it's weight? They seem to have been beaten by tiny Qatar.
    Though the loss of te Saudi journalist is sad it's as well that the Western world now know what has been known in the region for ever. Forget Iran Iraq Syria etc the real baddies have always been the Saudis. They might buy our arms but Assad never whipped women for driving cars or publically beheaded women and children for smoking dope
    No, Assad just abducts and tortures children for protesting.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited October 2018
    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
    First 4 aren’t in the EU so business as usual.
    Mercedes and McLaren are in the UK? My friends partner works in Brackley.

    https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/brackley/

    British Grand Prix is in GB.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,571
    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Heaven forbid that we use UK ports instead.






  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Jonathan, actually, I'd say the reverse is true.

    Almost every team is out of the EU (when we leave). There's a majority in a small triangle of Oxfordshire, and Sauber in Switzerland. Ferrari's obviously in Italy, and Haas *might* be somewhere else, not sure. The local supply chains have built up around the many teams in that small part of the south of England.

    Most races aren't in the EU either.

    There might be some changes necessary but I suspect (and hope) they won't actually be all that many.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Saw ships going up and down the Norh Sea. All heading to or from Rotterdam. How do we continue to use Rotterdam to distribute goods around the world after Brexit? Assume govt has specific agreements there for non CU deals. Friction in access to Rotterdam could be rather expensive.

    Heaven forbid that we use UK ports instead.


    Sure. But two stops for ships = £££££££
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
    First 4 aren’t in the EU so business as usual.
    Mercedes and McLaren are in the UK? My friends partner works in Brackley.

    https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/brackley/

    British Grand Prix is in GB.
    The first 4 races aren’t in the EU so there is no impact.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
    First 4 aren’t in the EU so business as usual.
    Mercedes and McLaren are in the UK? My friends partner works in Brackley.

    https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/brackley/

    British Grand Prix is in GB.
    The first 4 races aren’t in the EU so there is no impact.
    No impact, well that’s alright then. No EU/UK supply chains. Good. Glad you have that covered.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
    First 4 aren’t in the EU so business as usual.
    Mercedes and McLaren are in the UK? My friends partner works in Brackley.

    https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/brackley/

    British Grand Prix is in GB.
    The first 4 races aren’t in the EU so there is no impact.
    No impact, well that’s alright then. No EU/UK supply chains. Good. Glad you have that covered.
    I’m sure the pate or whatever the French contribute can fly straight to Azerbaijan.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880



    If it was in the Saudi consulate what can be done? Does Saudi punch below it's weight? They seem to have been beaten by tiny Qatar.

    The UK-Qatar relationship must be one of the most bizarre. We're paying 10k/hour an hour to fly Typhoons to bomb ISIS (funded by Qatar) while simultaneously setting up a joint Typhoon squadron with the Qatari Air Force. Fuck knows what we are trying to achieve with all that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Meeks, I once persuaded someone that an English Parliament was a good idea and that devolved regional assemblies within England made no sense at all.

    It's one of my favourite personal PB moments. And rather less stressful than the 251 on Verstappen, which involved about an hour of him barely staying ahead of Raikkonen.

    Speaking of F1, the provisional calendar for next year is out. More fortnight gaps than usual, although they've crammed four races into September. Last race is in December.

    https://twitter.com/BaronVonClutch/status/1050883014517899266

    With so many teams based in the UK, it could be informative to discover how these guys are preparing for Brexit. They don’t leave much to chance.
    First 4 aren’t in the EU so business as usual.
    Mercedes and McLaren are in the UK? My friends partner works in Brackley.

    https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/brackley/

    British Grand Prix is in GB.
    The first 4 races aren’t in the EU so there is no impact.
    No impact, well that’s alright then. No EU/UK supply chains. Good. Glad you have that covered.
    I’m sure the pate or whatever the French contribute can fly straight to Azerbaijan.
    Pirelli tyres too I guess. Seriously... I know people want to shut discussion down. But we should be looking now to what preparations industry are making as a guide to what actually might happen. F1 are an interesting case study. If they are doing nothing, then that’s a signal that they believe the risks are low. If they are making mitigations, then again we learn something.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Oh

    But Do you think electing leaders who claim their ideology is patriotism will make slightest difference to the unstoppable rise of globalisation? I don’t.
    It has led to leaders like Trump who are ready to declare trade wars and use tariffs rather than free trade with other nations responding in kind, leaders like Xi who want rigid state control rather than an open and free market, leaders like Bolsonaro who are prepared to clamp down hard and impose a strong law and order and traditional values message, leaders like Salvini and Modi and of course Trump again who will take a tougher line on migration, leaders like Putin who will throw business leaders they think are too powerful in jail.

    Corbyn and Lopez Obrador and Sanders meanwhile promise to tax the rich and reduce privatisation.

    There is nothing in itself wrong with globalisation, free trade, companies able to operate across borders and ease of travel to work and visit as a tourist has reduced global poverty and raised awareness of other cultures. However if too many gains are seen as going to the rich, immigration is seen as reducing wages and threatening cultural cohesion and companies are seen as cutting costs and avoiding tax at the expense of investing in the local area and its workers then inevitably there will be a backlash
    This is a funny post. You start saying there’s nothing wrong with Globalisation, then list what is wrong with globalisation. I asked how electing patriotic demagogues actually mitigates globalisation, you didn’t say how but added a subtext riseof patriotic demagoguery is a positive of globalisation?

    The important bit is you didn’t mention Brexit as you should have done. Built into Brexit vote is waving of skinny fists at globalisation. Brexit is about sovereignty and taking back control. Respecting Brexit vote is about respecting disenfranchised and struggling community’s who aren’t being listened to.Thinking about that persuasive argument you have in your head what sovereignty is and why we need it and control taken back, How’s taking back sovereignty and control lost to globalisation and companies of nowhere coming along?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Jonathan, the tyres, per race weekend, are allocated ahead of time and delivered directly to the circuit. Season testing (probably Jerez in Spain but could be somewhere in the Middle East) also has the tyres delivered directly there, I think.

    Not sure how often tyres are delivered to the UK. Testing is limited, so the days of putting a Ferrari around Maranello[sp] for twelve days between races are long gone.
  • Again I agree with Sean T. At the time it was presented as some kind of humanitarian act of kindness by Merkel to Syrian refugees, but what was really on their mind was their demographic time bomb.
    How genuine refugees suffered on the Journey. The chaos the migration caused in EU. How it shredded her credibility with her own voters.
    What was old west Germany has had multiculturalism for generations, but not so East Germany. It’s stoked some ugly sentiment. As soon as we hear pupils urged to grass on their teacher as soon as teacher talks politics, like how it was back in the thirties, then let that be Merkels legacy.

    Merkel unilaterally opening the gates into the EU probably moved enough votes to cause Brexit too.
    Yes that chaos was the backdrop to the vote, that and migrant boats on the med. did it not stoke feelings in every one of us to, cripes time to pull up the drawbridge.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Lord of Reason, though this isn't something Cameron can be blamed for, he might have felt an earlier vote better in that regard as the migration crisis could've gotten worse. As it happened, it improved somewhat, but that's the sort of thing one can only know with hindsight.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    New thread.
  • Lord of Reason, though this isn't something Cameron can be blamed for, he might have felt an earlier vote better in that regard as the migration crisis could've gotten worse. As it happened, it improved somewhat, but that's the sort of thing one can only know with hindsight.

    I agree, the backdrop was unlucky for Cameron, especially how close the final result was.

    But then when you are a chancer who throws balls into referendum roulette wheels on chance of “deciding this once and for all (at least rest of my political career)” you aren’t always going to get lucky.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Brexit means UK remains in the customs union? EU should be pretty happy with that outcome. Add to it UK will defenestrate themselves from all means of influence, Councils of ministers, the commission, all UK MEPs including Farage out of the Parliament, well, from the EU point of view that’s just the cherry on the cake. If UK offers CU+defenestration, EU will bite our arm off to sign this week

    Followed by Corbyn becoming Prime Minister and the Tories out of power for 20 years (or longer if they split) after selling 70% of their voters down the river!
    Oh and don't forget the campaign for Real Brexit begins in earnest on 30th March 2019.
    The campaign for real Brexit will be still born because Brexit will have been delivered. We will have gone so far down the road, like Norwegians we will boast we are not in EU. The bits we are in will be known as sane Brexit. So it won’t ever get the same traction with the electorate as this Brexit did, the new campaign would be arguing specifically against sane Brexit, not all EU membership. It will also forever be outgunned in the commons.
    Your assuming the Commons will be like it is now.
    After Theresa May sells out 70% of her voters Corbyn will win a majority whenever the election is held (I assume it will be next year sometime quite soon after 29th March)
    At that point the Tory Party splits in two, maybe three factions. Who knows what follows that? (and who can say what would come after a Corbyn government?)
    The moment Corbyn becomes PM and the Tory Party splits all bets are off...
    Corbyn will not win a majority, the only way he becomes PM is propped up by the SNP and LDs and with the Tories likely still largest party
    Here we go again, Mr HY. The Lib Dems have already said many times that they will not prop up a Corbyn government (nor a May government for that matter). Why do you keep insisting that they will. You live in Tory fantasy land. Time your feet came down to the ground.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Turkish investigators have claimed video and audio recordings exist that prove Jamal Khashoggi was killed, a sign that Ankara is willing to keep up the pressure on Riyadh to back up its claims it has nothing to do with the dissident journalist’s disappearance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/recordings-prove-jamal-khashoggi-killed-turkish-investigators-claim

    Tricky balancing act for the Turks.....given they've evidently bugged the Saudi Consulate

    That was my thought: they really care about this given that they are revealing this

    Edit sceptical in the Apple Watch story
    If it was in the Saudi consulate what can be done? Does Saudi punch below it's weight? They seem to have been beaten by tiny Qatar.
    Moral suasion
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Germany has a thriving manufacturing industry despite high wages. It is perfectly possible to have a high skill, high wage economy. Provided you do not bugger up established supply chains and lose access to your main market.
    Germany's largest market in the EU is the UK.
    Germany is one of the worlds largest manufacturing economies, just making the point that it is possible in a high wage economy.

    Germany will be fine post Brexit. It has had worse setbacks in the last century.
    I cannot see BMW, Audi or Mercedes car owners in the UK suddenly changing taste and buying Jaguar or Range Rover, more is the pity. The problem is the UK lost much wealth creating manufacturing from the 1970s onwards. The Brexit advocates do not logically explain why Japanese firms that manufacture in the UK will stay in the UK if it is outside the EU. If I were the firms in question I would relocate to the EU after Brexit as the supply chain will be less convoluted and it would preserve non tariff access to the single market. Poland and other eastern European countries will be licking their lips over the UK's folly. It is such a pity that the UK is being subjected to this nonsense. It is fool hardy to continue with Brexit.
    I did. When my Audi went up in smoke I bought a Jag. Can't really see me buying a German car again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Brexit means UK remains in the customs union? EU should be pretty happy with that outcome. Add to it UK will defenestrate themselves from all means of influence, Councils of ministers, the commission, all UK MEPs including Farage out of the Parliament, well, from the EU point of view that’s just the cherry on the cake. If UK offers CU+defenestration, EU will bite our arm off to sign this week

    Followed by Corbyn becoming Prime Minister and the Tories out of power for 20 years (or longer if they split) after selling 70% of their voters down the river!
    Oh and don't forget the campaign for Real Brexit begins in earnest on 30th March 2019.
    The campaign for real Brexit will be still born because Brexit will have been delivered. We will have gone so far down the road, like Norwegians we will boast we are not in EU. The bits we are in will be known as sane Brexit. So it won’t ever get the same traction with the electorate as this Brexit did, the new campaign would be arguing specifically against sane Brexit, not all EU membership. It will also forever be outgunned in the commons.
    Your assuming the Commons will be like it is now.
    After Theresa May sells out 70% of her voters Corbyn will win a majority whenever the election is held (I assume it will be next year sometime quite soon after 29th March)
    At that point the Tory Party splits in two, maybe three factions. Who knows what follows that? (and who can say what would come after a Corbyn government?)
    The moment Corbyn becomes PM and the Tory Party splits all bets are off...
    Corbyn will not win a majority, the only way he becomes PM is propped up by the SNP and LDs and with the Tories likely still largest party
    Here we go again, Mr HY. The Lib Dems have already said many times that they will not prop up a Corbyn government (nor a May government for that matter). Why do you keep insisting that they will. You live in Tory fantasy land. Time your feet came down to the ground.
    If the LDs hold the balance of power no legislation can get through without their support, so if say Corbyn became PM as Labour +SNP was more than the Tories + DUP on a confidence vote but less than Tories + DUP + LDs and the LDs abstained on the confidence vote rather than vote with the Tories then yes, the LDs would effectively be propping up Corbyn
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Oh

    But Do you think electing leaders who claim their ideology is patriotism will make slightest difference to the unstoppable rise of globalisation? I don’t.
    It has led to leaders like Trump who are ready to declare trade wars and use tariffs rather than free trade with other nations responding in kind, leaders like Xi who want rigid state control rather than an open and free market, leaders like Bolsonaro who are prepared to clamp down hard and impose a strong law and order and traditional values message, leaders like Salvini and Modi and of course Trump again who will take a tougher line on migration, leaders like Putin who will throw business leaders they think are too powerful in jail.

    Corbyn and Lopez Obrador and Sanders meanwhile promise to tax the rich and reduce privatisation.

    There is nothing in itself wrong with globalisacklash
    This is a funny post. You start saying there’s nothing wrong with Globalisation, then list what is wrong with globalisation. I asked how electing patriotic demagogues actually mitigates globalisation, you didn’t say how but added a subtext riseof patriotic demagoguery is a positive of globalisation?

    The important bit is you didn’t mention Brexit as you should have done. Built into Brexit vote is waving of skinny fists at globalisation. Brexit is about sovereignty and taking back control. Respecting Brexit vote is about respecting disenfranchised and struggling community’s who aren’t being listened to.Thinking about that persuasive argument you have in your head what sovereignty is and why we need it and control taken back, How’s taking back sovereignty and control lost to globalisation and companies of nowhere coming along?
    Brexit was largely won because of sovereignty and the fact we do not want to be part of a Federal EU, Brexit only got 52% without those who supported the single market or a trade deal with the EU Brexit would not have got a majority.

    You may want to end free trade and have a tariff based, protectionist, 'send the immigrants' back at the border type world but most people do not want that either even if they have concerns about the excesses of globalisation
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