Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
child mortality changes covered in fullfacts, not really any change at all its about the registering of early term births as live deaths or not. The life expectancy changes (weve discussed it on here) is very targeted in a small number of constituencies.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
It is difficult to watch Corbyn's car crash. Just embarrassing
Oh, I'm listening on the radio. There was nice calm gentleman speaking a few moments ago, now someone else is shouting very angrily.
It's hilarious to see all this faux-anger coming from the anti-Semite.
Hammond subtly managed to remind his audience of Labour’s problem in this area while speaking of the money to be spent on remembrance of the end of 2 World Wars.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
One of Cameron's budget responses was jaw droppingly good, possibly the finest performance ive ever seen. Might have been 2009.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
If fairly bright and often quick on their feet LotO like Cameron struggle, there is no chance for a total moron like Corbyn.
There was something on letting of 2nd homes. Did anyone get the details? Can't find anything on the internet yet. Did I imagine it?
He made reference to the capital gains and income tax relief given to primary residences. But he says its been abused (by people claiming to have lodgers and not living there??).
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
It is difficult to watch Corbyn's car crash. Just embarrassing
Why is Hoyle stepping in so much? He was silent with all the Labour shouting during the speech that mattered.
He isn't doing his chance of promotion much good.
Because Hammond has the intellect, poise and suavity to deal with it. Corbyn does not. If the House is to function, he needs to shield him to some extent.
He isn't helping his case by making stuff up about this being a budget for the rich when it really isn't though. Big business will be wincing today.
Edit - and now he's on to pensions, which is weak territory for him as Alistair has shown so often.
Mr Corbyn, I used to work with men left homeless by marital breakup. Why are you only concerned with women?
And now calling the PM 'nasty' and 'perverse'. Does anyone still think he doesn't demonise his opponents.
His toilet related puns. Awful. Really not sure where the adult stuff comes from.
All very well for you men. You can go and pee anywhere - and a few weeks ago late at night I saw a man openly relieving himself in front of a Waitrose, without even making any attempt to be discreet, for God’s sake! - but we ladies can’t and don’t want to have to go into a coffee shop and buy their bloody awful cappuccinos just to use the loo.
Wasn’t there a She-wee device on Dragons Den some years ago? I seem to recall the Army took it up.
And should I ever join the Army I’ll use it. Meanwhile I want a proper clean toilet with washbasin, good lighting and a mirror when I’m out and about shopping and doing my bit for the economy.
Neil Gray MP Verified account @NeilGrayMP 16m16 minutes ago
Neil Gray MP Retweeted Neil Gray MP
Chancellor just said his tax and #universalcredit changes would help by £690 per year, compared to DWP Sec predicting those transitioning set to be £2400 worse off before interventions. Still a net £1700 loss
How dare Corbyn go on about womens refuges. He wants to allow self-id thus allowing a violent man to self-id and enter such a refuge and any other safe space for women.
How dare Corbyn go on about womens refuges. He wants to allow self-id thus allowing a violent man to self-id and enter such a refuge and any other safe space for women.
How dare Corbyn go on about womens refuges. He wants to allow self-id thus allowing a violent man to self-id and enter such a refuge and any other safe space for women.
Miss Cyclefree, there was some interesting polling a few days ago (I forget if both men and women responded or if it were just women) on things like that, transgender women (that's to say men transitioning to women) being able to enter female sporting contests, women-only prisons etc. There were 4-5 options, your typical Likert scale, and for most things around 50-60% of responses were dead against such entries.
So, back to the important business. Where's the weakness in this budget? My instinctive answer is that trouble will come from one of IR35 or UC, both of which strike me as to put it mildly hostages to fortune.
But the tax threshold and business rates will likely be well received. Didn't see either of those coming.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
I always thought Hague was particularly good at responding to budgets. It didn't do him much good, but I noticed.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
to put Cameron in the same bracket as EdM is an interesting take.
This is the EdM who basically repeated 2011, 2012 and 2013 in his 2014 one.
How dare Corbyn go on about womens refuges. He wants to allow self-id thus allowing a violent man to self-id and enter such a refuge and any other safe space for women.
As the Karen White case shows, that is more than a theoretical risk.
Some interesting Budget proposals from Hammond with higher income tax thresholds, new taxes on revenues of the big tech companies and more money for the NHS, potholes, defence and counter terrorism
On the subject of the LOTT doing the budget response: it’s interesting to see the same question come up each time there is a budget. I think this shows two things: There is always someone out there who doesn’t know something you think is obvious, and they won’t until someone else tells them. (I can hear my fellow teachers saying ”if you are lucky” at this point). The obvious person to do the response ought to be the shadow chancellor. Particularly in this case I expect. -
So, back to the important business. Where's the weakness in this budget? My instinctive answer is that trouble will come from one of IR35 or UC, both of which strike me as to put it mildly hostages to fortune.
But the tax threshold and business rates will likely be well received. Didn't see either of those coming.
UC, very probably. It's not at all clear how much the extra help for transitional relief, together with the extra annual increase, will mitigate the pain
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
A difficult job but Corbyn was poor. All over the place. He'd have done much better to choose a single theme. Incomprehensible actually and listening on radio it felt eerily quiet.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
to put Cameron in the same bracket as EdM is an interesting take.
This is the EdM who basically repeated 2011, 2012 and 2013 in his 2014 one.
I always felt Cameron became too much the public schoolboy obsessed with generalities ahead of the substance.
But he may have suffered in comparison to Howard, whose dissection of the 2005 budget was masterly, thorough and ultimately in its key soundbite - vote now, pay later - proved spot on.
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
A difficult job but Corbyn was poor. All over the place. He'd have done much better to choose a single theme. Incomprehensible actually and listening on radio it felt eerily quiet.
I will content myself with just posting that comparison - from a Corbynista and a Labour voter.
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
So, back to the important business. Where's the weakness in this budget? My instinctive answer is that trouble will come from one of IR35 or UC, both of which strike me as to put it mildly hostages to fortune.
But the tax threshold and business rates will likely be well received. Didn't see either of those coming.
UC, very probably. It's not at all clear how much the extra help for transitional relief, together with the extra annual increase, will mitigate the pain
Instant commentary (Corbyn apart) seems to share your view.
So, back to the important business. Where's the weakness in this budget? My instinctive answer is that trouble will come from one of IR35 or UC, both of which strike me as to put it mildly hostages to fortune.
But the tax threshold and business rates will likely be well received. Didn't see either of those coming.
He has spread his seed too thin to get a decent harvest. But I can understand why he has felt the need to do so given the multiplicity of screams he was facing. Social Care and local government will both still be crisis zones.
Corbyn is responding for Labour I think? Is that unusual? I don't recall
Standard form -- Leader of the Opposition responds to the budget statement. The Shadow Chancellor will lead for Labour on the budget debate over the next few days.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
In fairness some LotO are very good at responding quickly. Blair, Hague and Howard were all very quick to seize on weaknesses in a budget. Cameron and Miliband rather less so.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
to put Cameron in the same bracket as EdM is an interesting take.
This is the EdM who basically repeated 2011, 2012 and 2013 in his 2014 one.
I always felt Cameron became too much the public schoolboy obsessed with generalities ahead of the substance.
But he may have suffered in comparison to Howard, whose dissection of the 2005 budget was masterly, thorough and ultimately in its key soundbite - vote now, pay later - proved spot on.
As said before elsewhere in the thread, Cameron had one very good one but is perhaps not in the league of the three very good ones stated.
However EdM's diminishing returns - and for them to be so clunkily obvious - lower him to a different bracket altogether.
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
His toilet related puns. Awful. Really not sure where the adult stuff comes from.
All very well for you men. You can go and pee anywhere - and a few weeks ago late at night I saw a man openly relieving himself in front of a Waitrose, without even making any attempt to be discreet, for God’s sake! - but we ladies can’t and don’t want to have to go into a coffee shop and buy their bloody awful cappuccinos just to use the loo.
Do what the rest of us do - go into a pub and use their loo without buying anything
His toilet related puns. Awful. Really not sure where the adult stuff comes from.
All very well for you men. You can go and pee anywhere - and a few weeks ago late at night I saw a man openly relieving himself in front of a Waitrose, without even making any attempt to be discreet, for God’s sake! - but we ladies can’t and don’t want to have to go into a coffee shop and buy their bloody awful cappuccinos just to use the loo.
Do what the rest of us do - go into a pub and use their loo without buying anything
I always feel that I'm taking the piss when I do that.
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
Why would anyone sit and listen to the incoherent ramblings of Corbyn? He didn't make one point that actually responded adequately to the content of the Budget speech. It was preprepared ranting based on discredited statistics and a twisted world view.
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
So what were his main points?
His main point was Austerity Bad, Tories Evil, Me Good.
His toilet related puns. Awful. Really not sure where the adult stuff comes from.
All very well for you men. You can go and pee anywhere - and a few weeks ago late at night I saw a man openly relieving himself in front of a Waitrose, without even making any attempt to be discreet, for God’s sake! - but we ladies can’t and don’t want to have to go into a coffee shop and buy their bloody awful cappuccinos just to use the loo.
Do what the rest of us do - go into a pub and use their loo without buying anything
I always feel that I'm taking the piss when I do that.
Bad day for labour and terrible response by Corbyn
The LOTO response makes no difference. The fine detail will provide the headlines.
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
Unexciting is what you want in a budget. If it isn’t it usually falls apart when the detail is examined.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
Sorry, but Corbyn tore the Tories apart, the expressions on the cabinet members faces told all, and the general evacuation from the government backbenchers showed it.
So what were his main points?
His main point was Austerity Bad, Tories Evil, Me Good.
Well, I always tell my students to use bullet points...
His toilet related puns. Awful. Really not sure where the adult stuff comes from.
All very well for you men. You can go and pee anywhere - and a few weeks ago late at night I saw a man openly relieving himself in front of a Waitrose, without even making any attempt to be discreet, for God’s sake! - but we ladies can’t and don’t want to have to go into a coffee shop and buy their bloody awful cappuccinos just to use the loo.
Do what the rest of us do - go into a pub and use their loo without buying anything
I always feel that I'm taking the piss when I do that.
So, back to the important business. Where's the weakness in this budget? My instinctive answer is that trouble will come from one of IR35 or UC, both of which strike me as to put it mildly hostages to fortune.
But the tax threshold and business rates will likely be well received. Didn't see either of those coming.
UC, very probably. It's not at all clear how much the extra help for transitional relief, together with the extra annual increase, will mitigate the pain
Early estimates seem to be it will be worth about £750 against a possible loss of £2400 for those switching.
Comments
Hoyle didn't step in to stop the Labour backchat - so why is he protecting Corbyn?
Interesting also that Hammond could deflect interruptions and Corbyn just flounders and the Dep Speaker has to intervene.
Just how poor can labour get
But even he and Letwin weren't this useless.
Some might argue that he can't think full-stop.
The LoTO response is often a bit lame and restricted to generalities because he has had no advance sight of the budget measures, many of which are hidden in the red book which is released only after the budget speech.
Corbyn has now completely lost his way. He doesn't have any thread to this speech at all.
He isn't doing his chance of promotion much good.
He isn't helping his case by making stuff up about this being a budget for the rich when it really isn't though. Big business will be wincing today.
Edit - and now he's on to pensions, which is weak territory for him as Alistair has shown so often.
Mr Corbyn, I used to work with men left homeless by marital breakup. Why are you only concerned with women?
And now calling the PM 'nasty' and 'perverse'. Does anyone still think he doesn't demonise his opponents.
Neil Gray MP
Verified account @NeilGrayMP
16m16 minutes ago
Neil Gray MP Retweeted Neil Gray MP
Chancellor just said his tax and #universalcredit changes would help by £690 per year, compared to DWP Sec predicting those transitioning set to be £2400 worse off before interventions. Still a net £1700 loss
This is becoming increasingly surreal.
As @SouthamObserver has said so often, with opponents like this they don't need supporters.
But the tax threshold and business rates will likely be well received. Didn't see either of those coming.
This is the EdM who basically repeated 2011, 2012 and 2013 in his 2014 one.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/10712417/Ed-Milibands-Budget-speech-was-repetitive-admits-Labour.html
On the face of it it's a pretty unexciting budget from an unexciting party in difficult times.
BTW is Corbyn still speaking? The Guardian said they would summarise his speech once he’d finished, but that comment was about 40 minutes ago.
That said Andrew Neil isn't talking about the budget much.
Britain is spending more on disability and incapacity benefits as a share of GDP than all other G7 countries except Germany.
Not something which gets prominent coverage on the BBC or in the Guardian!
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/752073/Universal_Credit_web.pdf
There is always someone out there who doesn’t know something you think is obvious, and they won’t until someone else tells them. (I can hear my fellow teachers saying ”if you are lucky” at this point).
The obvious person to do the response ought to be the shadow chancellor. Particularly in this case I expect.
-
It's not at all clear how much the extra help for transitional relief, together with the extra annual increase, will mitigate the pain
But he may have suffered in comparison to Howard, whose dissection of the 2005 budget was masterly, thorough and ultimately in its key soundbite - vote now, pay later - proved spot on.
However EdM's diminishing returns - and for them to be so clunkily obvious - lower him to a different bracket altogether.
Edit - oh shit, I'm proving @DavidL right!!!
And your viewing plans this evening?
I assume it was quick then?