Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
The ERG and the plotters have misjudged the mood today. Folks I've spoken to who otherwise take little or no interest in politics have stated their admiration of May and think she should be allowed to get 'the thing done'. They're very fuzzy on the facts of course but the mood seems to be that May is to be supported.
And yet I bet polls won't back that up, given remaining and no deal still command significant support.
In any case it is MPs she needs to persuade, and we are still waiting to find out if a few more Cabinet Members will quit, so in fact the opposite is occurring as people supposedly on board like Gove are wrestling with tossing it out.
Instead we face a real risk of being stuck as supplicants back in the EU without some of our opt outs, probably without our rebate and absolutely no influence in any event as we will be a complete laughing stock.
Believe me, living outside the UK it's quite clear that the UK is already an international laughing stock.
Can confirm
I’ve never heard this from anyone but Remainer expats.
Last time I went on holiday, to Dublin, unprompted and without knowledge of my position more people expressed admiration for the Leave vote...
Interesting given that Ireland has one of the largest approval ratings for membership in the entire EU! You must have been very lucky to meet just Irexiters.
It wasn’t necessarily people who also wanted to leave, but admiration for the democratic process.
Obviously but what impact has no deal got on getting type approval for UK made cars. Millions of cars made outside the EU get type approval and are sold into EU every year. Why are we so special that we will not get type approval if we follow the correct EU procedures?
None. It's just that the year or so while UK manufacturers submit their existing cars for re-approval in the EU might not be terribly conducive to not going bust in the meantime, and there's nothing the UK government can do to help if there's no deal.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
Instead we face a real risk of being stuck as supplicants back in the EU without some of our opt outs, probably without our rebate and absolutely no influence in any event as we will be a complete laughing stock.
Believe me, living outside the UK it's quite clear that the UK is already an international laughing stock.
Can confirm
The Japanese view us as a laughing stock?
TBF it's mostly more of a "sympathetic that your mentally retarded uncle set fire to your house" vibe
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
Several people seem to be blaming the government/Phil Hammond/David Cameron for not preparing for No Deal.
I'm curious to know what preparation the UK should have be done for:
- No access to European markets for our fisherman - An immediate end to our aerospace components being certified for use in aircraft - Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars - No legal basis for British ex-pats to continue living in the EU - No approval for UK agricultural products to be sold in the EU - Delays at French ports - An end to access to Galileo - The impact of No Deal on the Good Friday Agreement - An end to the existing arrangements for licensing of veterinary and human medicines - An end to recognition by EU countries of the Certificates of Competency of UK seafarers
I'm sure this is all terribly easy. It must be so because Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't think any of this is a problem.
According to an audience member on Question Time it will be ok because we had the Atlantic convoys in the war.
We had a mercantile marine that consisted of more than the Isle of Wight Ferries during the war!
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
What an absolute nonsense from Barry Gardiner - We'll have a customs union, but not THE customs union, but definitely not Turkey and do our own free trade deals on top !
Unicorns on unicorns.
The whole Labour position is unsustainable. The sad reality is that if the ERG had accepted the deal we’d be ridiculing Labour at the moment...
Didn't Gove favour an EEA type Brexit at the time of the referendum? The idea that he is credibly considering quitting in order to push for a renegotiation backed up by a threat of no deal is laughable.
Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
The final final note is that while the ERG are getting a lot of stick, at the end of the day that was expected to some degree. Tory remainers and Labour rebels not being willing to countenance even a crap deal has been more critical for dooming it. Now, that may well show just how bad it is, but let us be honest, some are clearly just hoping remain somehow succeeds even if no deal is risked, and others are falling back on the childish notion that, no matter the national interest, oppositions must oppose. I don't doubt the vast majority of the opposition do think the national interest is served by opposing in this instance, as in most instances, but to rely upon it as an absolute without assessing the merits of the circumstance, and the risk they are willing to take, would be a grave mistake, for the Tory rebels too. He has talked of looking his children in the eyes over this issue, I wonder how Grieve will look at them if he causes no deal.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
I do not disagree but it is not going to change. Indeed if anything it is becoming far more required in the public sector and local government. Every announcement including all planning and local government jobs require bilingual notices doubling the space at huge costs
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
I don't think so. Maintaining the language and culture are perfectly sound policies.
Neither should it get in the way of providing good public services.
Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
The final final note is that while the ERG are getting a lot of stick, at the end of the day that was expected to some degree. Tory remainers and Labour rebels not being willing to countenance even a crap deal has been more critical for dooming it. Now, that may well show just how bad it is, but let us be honest, some are clearly just hoping remain somehow succeeds even if no deal is risked, and others are falling back on the childish notion that, no matter the national interest, oppositions must oppose. I don't doubt the vast majority of the opposition do think the national interest is served by opposing in this instance, as in most instances, but to rely upon it as an absolute without assessing the merits of the circumstance, and the risk they are willing to take, would be a grave mistake, for the Tory rebels too. He has talked of looking his children in the eyes over this issue, I wonder how Grieve will look at them if he causes no deal.
Good night.
Or you could say that we are having a very healthy debate on a key issue for the country.
Several people seem to be blaming the government/Phil Hammond/David Cameron for not preparing for No Deal.
I'm curious to know what preparation the UK should have be done for:
- No access to European markets for our fisherman - An immediate end to our aerospace components being certified for use in aircraft - Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars - No legal basis for British ex-pats to continue living in the EU - No approval for UK agricultural products to be sold in the EU - Delays at French ports - An end to access to Galileo - The impact of No Deal on the Good Friday Agreement - An end to the existing arrangements for licensing of veterinary and human medicines - An end to recognition by EU countries of the Certificates of Competency of UK seafarers
I'm sure this is all terribly easy. It must be so because Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't think any of this is a problem.
You really need to offer more detail as a lot of the above is meaningless.
So what do you mean by "Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars"
I mean that any car imported into the EU has to have EU Type Approval (i.e. tests where they crash them into barriers etc) before it can legally be driven on EU roads:
Obviously but what impact has no deal got on getting type approval for UK made cars. Millions of cars made outside the EU get type approval and are sold into EU every year. Why are we so special that we will not get type approval if we follow the correct EU procedures?
At the risk of sounding ridiculous, because we haven't filled out the forms.
IIRC, the type approval lapses on departure in the absence of a deal and will need to be reapproved. Which would require the approvals to be redone. Which takes time.
The problem is not the level of bureaucracy per se, it's the fact that in the absence of a deal it all has to be done in the time remaining: 134 days.
Instead we face a real risk of being stuck as supplicants back in the EU without some of our opt outs, probably without our rebate and absolutely no influence in any event as we will be a complete laughing stock.
Believe me, living outside the UK it's quite clear that the UK is already an international laughing stock.
Can confirm
I’ve never heard this from anyone but Remainer expats.
Last time I went on holiday, to Dublin, unprompted and without knowledge of my position more people expressed admiration for the Leave vote...
Strange isnt it
Almost like they are just saying what they want to be true
Imagine that. Heaven forfend Leave should exhibit such a trait.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Several people seem to be blaming the government/Phil Hammond/David Cameron for not preparing for No Deal.
I'm curious to know what preparation the UK should have be done for:
- No access to European markets for our fisherman - An immediate end to our aerospace components being certified for use in aircraft - Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars - No legal basis for British ex-pats to continue living in the EU - No approval for UK agricultural products to be sold in the EU - Delays at French ports - An end to access to Galileo - The impact of No Deal on the Good Friday Agreement - An end to the existing arrangements for licensing of veterinary and human medicines - An end to recognition by EU countries of the Certificates of Competency of UK seafarers
I'm sure this is all terribly easy. It must be so because Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't think any of this is a problem.
You really need to offer more detail as a lot of the above is meaningless.
So what do you mean by "Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars"
I mean that any car imported into the EU has to have EU Type Approval (i.e. tests where they crash them into barriers etc) before it can legally be driven on EU roads:
Obviously but what impact has no deal got on getting type approval for UK made cars. Millions of cars made outside the EU get type approval and are sold into EU every year. Why are we so special that we will not get type approval if we follow the correct EU procedures?
At the risk of sounding ridiculous, because we haven't filled out the forms.
IIRC, the type approval lapses on departure in the absence of a deal and will need to be reapproved. Which would require the approvals to be redone. Which takes time.
The problem is not the level of bureaucracy per se, it's the fact that in the absence of a deal it all has to be done in the time remaining: 134 days.
The EU has said that type approval pre brexit will be valid post brexit. They then made another massive concession, which the car industry never expected, that if a car with type approval is modified then just the modifications need to be tested not the whole car seeing as the testing location would move from the UK to a EU 27 country. Nobody expected this.
I think we should pay a lot less attention to the ERG in future. They are clearly not the well-organised highly disciplined party within a party that the media have portrayed.
A lot of ERG members are trying to leave it. But they don't seem to know how to.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
The final final note is that while the ERG are getting a lot of stick, at the end of the day that was expected to some degree. Tory remainers and Labour rebels not being willing to countenance even a crap deal has been more critical for dooming it. Now, that may well show just how bad it is, but let us be honest, some are clearly just hoping remain somehow succeeds even if no deal is risked, and others are falling back on the childish notion that, no matter the national interest, oppositions must oppose. I don't doubt the vast majority of the opposition do think the national interest is served by opposing in this instance, as in most instances, but to rely upon it as an absolute without assessing the merits of the circumstance, and the risk they are willing to take, would be a grave mistake, for the Tory rebels too. He has talked of looking his children in the eyes over this issue, I wonder how Grieve will look at them if he causes no deal.
Good night.
Or you could say that we are having a very healthy debate on a key issue for the country.
The time for debate is at an end and Its time for a decision. The Tories are unable to come up with one.
Didn't Gove favour an EEA type Brexit at the time of the referendum? The idea that he is credibly considering quitting in order to push for a renegotiation backed up by a threat of no deal is laughable.
He's probably the brightest member of the cabinet but he is both flawed and undermined by his Machiavellian nature - which has led him to overreach at the key moment. I think he should have watched less "Game of Thrones" or taken less notice of the plots from Shakespearean tragedies.
"Thou wouldst be great. Art not without ambition ..."
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
But that is new models. The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Edit if BMW got MINI approval in Germany before brexit then nothiong has changed.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Services are not constrained by language.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Oh and of course your frankly silly comparison to Quebec doesnt hold. Welsh is not a global language; both French and English are.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
But that is new models. The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
That link doesn't support your position. It *allows* EU27 to recognise UK certification but doesn't *insist* that they do.
"...Internal Market Committee rapporteur Marlene Mizzi said: “Given the current political scenario concerning the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, manufacturers and consumers need certainty where type approvals for vehicles are concerned, to avoid unnecessarily disrupting this important industry. Manufacturers shall now be provided with the required period and legal framework to continue trading within the EU.”
Having received a mandate from the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, the updated EU motor vehicle type approval regulation will be passed to the European Council for negotiation, pending approval in the European Parliament’s plenary sessions. Negotiations must conclude before the UK’s set withdrawal date of March 30, 2019..."
So you have to get the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee to provide a mandate, then negotiate with the European Council, then get it approved by Europarl by March 30th 2019.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Are there genuinely any 'Welsh speakers' who are not also fluent in English? I would find it very hard to believe.
I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS
I had this experience a few months ago. It was someone I had met years ago but didn't know very well. It was indeed a bit unnerving to find he knew all about my political position and betting from reading PB.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
But that is new models. The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
LD hold in Oxfordshire - LD 1925, Con 1447, Lab 459, Green 185.</bl The Lib Dem victor is a barrister and law lecturer who lost her partner to sudden death in epilepsy when he was 29. She received an OBE for her work in drawing attention to this condition.
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.
Most Tory MPs will tell the DUP to sod off rather than having their leader dictated to them even if it requires a general election
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Services are not constrained by language.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
But that is new models. The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
No they do not have to reapply at all.
Pleased to hear it. Perhaps you could let the author of the article you linked to know, since he or she doesn't seem to agree with you: "Car manufacturers whose vehicles have been type approved in the UK will be able to apply for new EU motor vehicle type approval after Brexit."
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
That link doesn't support your position. It *allows* EU27 to recognise UK certification but doesn't *insist* that they do.
"...Internal Market Committee rapporteur Marlene Mizzi said: “Given the current political scenario concerning the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, manufacturers and consumers need certainty where type approvals for vehicles are concerned, to avoid unnecessarily disrupting this important industry. Manufacturers shall now be provided with the required period and legal framework to continue trading within the EU.”
Having received a mandate from the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, the updated EU motor vehicle type approval regulation will be passed to the European Council for negotiation, pending approval in the European Parliament’s plenary sessions. Negotiations must conclude before the UK’s set withdrawal date of March 30, 2019..."
So you have to get the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee to provide a mandate, then negotiate with the European Council, then get it approved by Europarl by March 30th 2019.
What do you not understand that the EU is moving this through the EU legal mechanism. Nothing to do with the UK Govt.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Services are not constrained by language.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
But that is new models. The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
No they do not have to reapply at all.
If you believe that, then perhaps you can link to the decision of the European Council and the approval of the European Parliament that your link says has to be negotiated and passed.
What I'm wondering is why TMay did the 5:30 TV show. Every one was expecting a big announcement, resignation, even a"I will fight on" and nothing. That was probably the most useless conference meeting I've ever seen.
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest. If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:
.
But that is new models. The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
No they do not have to reapply at all.
Pleased to hear it. Perhaps you could let the author of the article you linked to know, since he or she doesn't seem to agree with you: "Car manufacturers whose vehicles have been type approved in the UK will be able to apply for new EU motor vehicle type approval after Brexit."
Do you understand the word already? "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.
Most Tory MPs will tell the DUP to sod off rather than having their leader dictated to them even if it requires a general election
'Most Tory MPs' won't command the majority of the House of Commons. 'All Tory MPs' won't either.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
I studied History Big G, I understand.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Services are not constrained by language.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.
What do you not understand that the EU is moving this through the EU legal mechanism. Nothing to do with the UK Govt.
I believe you. But those processes haven't finished yet and if they aren't finished by Brexit day we have a problem. You're referring to it as a done deal, but it hasn't been signed off yet. And given that one of the steps is Europarl approval, it's not guaranteed that it will.
Do you understand the word already? "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
See the already. It means something.
I'm off to bed, but really! Read you own link. The manufacturer applies for APPROVAL. To get that it needs to submit the results of TESTS. Get the distinction?
The DUP don’t get to choose the leader of the Conservatives. They might get a say in the identity of the next Prime Minister. Those people might not be the same.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
Services are not constrained by language.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.
Maybe we should discuss this when there are 220m Welsh speakers worldwide?
In the Valleys Welsh is largely pointless. I think that is true for much of South Wales, there are areas where it is quite heavily spoken but outside of that large parts of Wales exist almost exclusively on English.
I agree that Welsh somewhat limits Plaid's appeal as well, pre Corbyn when I was looking for someone to vote for (Greens not available) the Welsh language side of Plaid put me off slightly, admittedly the nationalist aspect would put me off anyway, would take a lot for me to vote for a nationalist party but the language aspect would probably help put off other people who are a bit less wary of nationalism.
The areas where it is still going strong support it and help it by all means but in areas like mine it feels rather forced and a waste which probably isn't actually reversing the situation.
What do you not understand that the EU is moving this through the EU legal mechanism. Nothing to do with the UK Govt.
I believe you. But those processes haven't finished yet and if they aren't finished by Brexit day we have a problem. You're referring to it as a done deal, but it hasn't been signed off yet. And given that one of the steps is Europarl approval, it's not guaranteed that it will.
I agree, but one must have a little bit of faith that if the EU bigwigs have decided to do something then they can get it through in time.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated Englis
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.
Maybe we should discuss this when there are 220m Welsh speakers worldwide?
The fact that there are fewer Welsh speakers is all the more reason to preserve and promote the language. The French language is not under threat.
I am a little surprised that you are so utilitarian about language when it is such a core part of Welsh history and national consciousness. Are you as keen for the English to be homogenized ?
One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
It is Araf/Stop.
Araf comes first.
I thought it was Slow Araf...
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.
One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
It is Araf/Stop.
Araf comes first.
I thought it was Slow Araf...
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.
What about Twp ? The English of the Valleys incorporates many Welsh loan words.
Frankly, Labour considered a laughing stock on brexit according to QT.
Plaid woman quite good, though she has a double barrelled name and sounds more Surrey than Wales
Some of them cannot even speak Welsh
Most of Wales can't speak Welsh
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking Wales
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.
Just suppose Quebec treated Englis
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.
Maybe we should discuss this when there are 220m Welsh speakers worldwide?
The fact that there are fewer Welsh speakers is all the more reason to preserve and promote the language. The French language is not under threat.
I am a little surprised that you are so utilitarian about language when it is such a core part of Welsh history and national consciousness. Are you as keen for the English to be homogenized ?
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..
Portillo seemed to think it will play out as I suggested which is that the Cabinet, realizing that the deal is dead and the DUP are going to pull the plug, will then step in and tell May to resign as she's lost their confidence.
One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
It is Araf/Stop.
Araf comes first.
I thought it was Slow Araf...
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.
What about Twp ? The English of the Valleys incorporates many Welsh loan words.
TBH It did ring a bell after I looked it up and saw the translation I think some of my friends might have a similar reaction (some none at all even after translation) but I'd say that word is probably dying out rapidly as slang among younger groups, struggling to remember where I have heard it but I think they were a fair bit older than me and it was a while ago.
Edit: cwtch, that is a word lots of English speaking people here know. One good example
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
And then "Its not " fails to have an apostrophe!!
As I’ve proved, English is a sufficiently difficult language to learn as it is.
Incidentally, I don’t see Gaelic translations across Scotland. I wonder why Welsh is so fetishised across the nation?
This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..
Portillo seemed to think it will play out as I suggested which is that the Cabinet, realizing that the deal is dead and the DUP are going to pull the plug, will then step in and tell May to resign as she's lost their confidence.
I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.
Someone who was correctly awestruck by the spreadsheet.
It was a work of art. Hope to buy @AndyJS a drink or ten at some future PB Gathering to say thanks properly.
All I did really was put a whole lot of census data together on the same page. But thanks for the appreciation.
Spreadsheets can be so powerful.
On one consulting project I did a spreadsheet favour for one business function in some slow time; I honestly wonder if it had more of a positive effect on the business than the project I was actually working on.
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.
Most Tory MPs will tell the DUP to sod off rather than having their leader dictated to them even if it requires a general election
'Most Tory MPs' won't command the majority of the House of Commons. 'All Tory MPs' won't either.
Well if the DUP dictate who the Tory leader is they control not just the House of Commons but the Tory Party too and that is unacceptable for a party with just over a third of votes even in NI
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
And then "Its not " fails to have an apostrophe!!
As I’ve proved, English is a sufficiently difficult language to learn as it is.
Incidentally, I don’t see Gaelic translations across Scotland. I wonder why Welsh is so fetishised across the nation?
You're out of touch, my baby My poor discarded baby I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..
Portillo seemed to think it will play out as I suggested which is that the Cabinet, realizing that the deal is dead and the DUP are going to pull the plug, will then step in and tell May to resign as she's lost their confidence.
And afterwards?
The ERG pulled back today as they know they do not have the votes to topple May and the DUP can huff and puff but they cannot topple her either. The Cabinet has already collectively backed the PM
Yes! The Draft agreement can be changed! Not necessarily to our advantage:
BRUSSELS/PARIS (Reuters) - France on Thursday led calls among European Union states for changes to the draft agreement on Britain’s exit from the bloc, adding to uncertainty over the fate of the deal as British Prime Minister Theresa faced an uproar at home.
Comments
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
Yes.
No mention of a laughing stock.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
https://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/16997632.investigation-launched-after-red-funnel-car-ferry-collided-with-yachts-and-ran-aground/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-45322032
Though I can highly recommend the cooked breakfast on the Redfunnel.
It'll be Cornwall next.
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Good night.
Neither should it get in the way of providing good public services.
I just remembered their IT protection failures......
Not exactly showing stellar levels of competence.
IIRC, the type approval lapses on departure in the absence of a deal and will need to be reapproved. Which would require the approvals to be redone. Which takes time.
The problem is not the level of bureaucracy per se, it's the fact that in the absence of a deal it all has to be done in the time remaining: 134 days.
https://www.economist.com/bagehots-notebook/2018/11/15/britains-government-slides-into-chaos
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/15/elementary-way-brexit-impasse-second-referendum/
Should be a good laugh.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20677528
Plaid's vote at the 2016 Welsh Assembly election? 20%.
All the Plaid MPs and most of their AMs come from Anglesey, Gwynedd and Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire which are the Welsh speaking heartlands
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1063218582174224384?s=19
"Thou wouldst be great. Art not without ambition ..."
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Edit if BMW got MINI approval in Germany before brexit then nothiong has changed.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Oh and of course your frankly silly comparison to Quebec doesnt hold. Welsh is not a global language; both French and English are.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
"...Internal Market Committee rapporteur Marlene Mizzi said: “Given the current political scenario concerning the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, manufacturers and consumers need certainty where type approvals for vehicles are concerned, to avoid unnecessarily disrupting this important industry. Manufacturers shall now be provided with the required period and legal framework to continue trading within the EU.”
Having received a mandate from the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, the updated EU motor vehicle type approval regulation will be passed to the European Council for negotiation, pending approval in the European Parliament’s plenary sessions. Negotiations must conclude before the UK’s set withdrawal date of March 30, 2019..."
So you have to get the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee to provide a mandate, then negotiate with the European Council, then get it approved by Europarl by March 30th 2019.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
"The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
See the already. It means something.
'All Tory MPs' won't either.
Araf comes first.
In any case, none of this affects my point.
I agree that Welsh somewhat limits Plaid's appeal as well, pre Corbyn when I was looking for someone to vote for (Greens not available) the Welsh language side of Plaid put me off slightly, admittedly the nationalist aspect would put me off anyway, would take a lot for me to vote for a nationalist party but the language aspect would probably help put off other people who are a bit less wary of nationalism.
The areas where it is still going strong support it and help it by all means but in areas like mine it feels rather forced and a waste which probably isn't actually reversing the situation.
I am a little surprised that you are so utilitarian about language when it is such a core part of Welsh history and national consciousness. Are you as keen for the English to be homogenized ?
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
And then "Its not " fails to have an apostrophe!!
Edit: cwtch, that is a word lots of English speaking people here know. One good example
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.
Would only be an exact analogy if it were 20% of Quebec spoke French.
Incidentally, I don’t see Gaelic translations across Scotland. I wonder why Welsh is so fetishised across the nation?
On one consulting project I did a spreadsheet favour for one business function in some slow time; I honestly wonder if it had more of a positive effect on the business than the project I was actually working on.
But French is the majority language in Quebec.
My poor discarded baby
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
There are Gaelic translations across Scotland.
Obviously, you have not visited in ages.
BRUSSELS/PARIS (Reuters) - France on Thursday led calls among European Union states for changes to the draft agreement on Britain’s exit from the bloc, adding to uncertainty over the fate of the deal as British Prime Minister Theresa faced an uproar at home.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-27/french-led-eu-states-call-for-changes-to-britains-draft-exit-deal-idUKKCN1NK21E?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter