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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast. What do the public think of

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited November 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast. What do the public think of Theresa May’s Brexit deal?

After an eventful week in Westminster, Keiran Pedley and Matt Singh sit down to discuss public opinion on Theresa May’s Brexit deal and her future asking ‘what happens now?’

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 9,663
    edited November 2018
    48th? Still waiting....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 65,106
    The public are not fans of May's Deal but think it is the best that could be got.

    They increasingly prefer Remain to both the Deal on offer and No Deal
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000

    48th? Still waiting....

    49th!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,312
    fourth and falling fast, like Boris
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 29,831
    I think this coming week will be even more eventful....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000

    I think this coming week will be even more eventful....

    Don’t tell me the AV magnum opus is going to be delayed yet again?
  • FPT
    IanB2 said:


    Given the people voted for leave over remain, do either of you think handing them a choice of half arsed leave negotiated by people who didn't vote to leave or not leaving at all respects the referendum result as both major parties have pledged repeatedly? Or do you think this doesn't matter as long as what you think is common sense is prevails?

    If you wish to respect the original vote, then a further referendum between accepting the deal and no deal (where the people choose whether to accept the threat of massive disruption and NI border conflagration or dismiss it as either worth the hassle or Project Fear pt 2) would make far more sense. It would also be logically consistent with the old referendum lock promise.

    Instead it seems you are overruling the will of the people because you feel your opinion has greater value which seems profoundly undemocratic, although consistent with the EU's take on popular consent.

    I don't see how you can morally justify removing what people voted for (leaving regardless of the path) from the ballot, but keep what they didn't vote for (remaining regardless of how the EU evolves).

    Why should politics be the only aspect of human life where, once you find that a decision you have taken is dumb and going to be hugely damaging, you aren't allowed to think again?
    There is no popular acceptance that it's dumb or hugely damaging and no evidence (all we have is the people who said it would be damaging in the first place repeating their claims). Since it takes a long time to implement major political decisions it makes sense to revisit them on an occasional basis over the long term (as with EU membership), but not before following the previous expression of popular will has even been attempted. Your alternative course is a recipe for repeated referendums every couple of years, in which case we shouldn't have referendums at all.
  • RobD said:

    I think this coming week will be even more eventful....

    Don’t tell me the AV magnum opus is going to be delayed yet again?
    It was published this morning.
  • I think this coming week will be even more eventful....

    Every day is eventful and not in a good way
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000

    RobD said:

    I think this coming week will be even more eventful....

    Don’t tell me the AV magnum opus is going to be delayed yet again?
    It was published this morning.
    Bloody time zones :(
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 78,311
    edited November 2018
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I think this coming week will be even more eventful....

    Don’t tell me the AV magnum opus is going to be delayed yet again?
    It was published this morning.
    Bloody time zones :(
    With the quasi-alternative vote system the Tory Party uses to elect their leader it is possible for several candidates from the same strand of Conservatism to stand in the first round without damaging that strand’s chances of winning the leadership. If the election was conducted under first past the post system then there’s a huge disadvantage for one wing of the party to put up multiple candidates.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/11/18/betting-on-just-how-many-candidates-are-on-the-first-ballot-paper-of-the-next-tory-leadership-election/
  • The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I think this coming week will be even more eventful....

    Don’t tell me the AV magnum opus is going to be delayed yet again?
    It was published this morning.
    Bloody time zones :(
    With the quasi-alternative vote system the Tory Party uses to elect their leader it is possible for several candidates from the same strand of Conservatism to stand in the first round without damaging that strand’s chances of winning the leadership. If the election was conducted under first past the post system then there’s a huge disadvantage for one wing of the party to put up multiple candidates.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/11/18/betting-on-just-how-many-candidates-are-on-the-first-ballot-paper-of-the-next-tory-leadership-election/
    It's the Exhaustive Ballot, actually.

    With AV, you get to rank all the candidates in order of preference in the same round, which doesn't happen in the Tory leadership race.

    The exhaustive ballot is a voting system used to elect a single winner. Under the exhaustive ballot the elector simply casts a single vote for their chosen candidate. However, if no candidate is supported by an overall majority of votes then the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and a further round of voting occurs. This process is repeated for as many rounds as necessary until one candidate has a majority.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustive_ballot
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,772

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000
    edited November 2018

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    To prevent a single power dominating Europe? That’s exactly the direction the EU is heading. And was the primary purpose of those wars to ensure free trade with europe? I don’t think it was...
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,334

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    For centuries the main goal of British foreign policy was to prevent the whole of continental Europe uniting against British interests. The referendum has achieved just that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    That's the sort of sh*t talk that got us into this mess. Of course Britain would 'exist'.

    And leavers had the temerity of accusing remain of Project Fear ...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000
    I

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    That's the sort of sh*t talk that got us into this mess. Of course Britain would 'exist'.

    And leavers had the temerity of accusing remain of Project Fear ...
    As a province. No doubt with borders drawn up in Brussels (see their Euro-regions as a classic example).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    RobD said:

    I

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    That's the sort of sh*t talk that got us into this mess. Of course Britain would 'exist'.

    And leavers had the temerity of accusing remain of Project Fear ...
    As a province. No doubt with borders drawn up in Brussels (see their Euro-regions as a classic example).
    Well, of you think that it's important to state you mean a political entity rather than just 'Britain'.

    But even then, it's also wrong and stupid IMO.
  • As for the coming week this is now a forest fire. There are all sorts of things you can do to contain, minimise, direct but fundamentally you just have to let the available fuel burn itself out. In this case the available fuel is the outrage generated when ever Quantum Brexit is observed and the wave form collapses onto any specific Brexit. What's happening to May would have happened whatever she brought back or whoever brought it back.

    The Leave vote was the first post-modern election result. Unfortunately our archipelago is still meatspace and now the Crash is here. We just have to wait to see what if anything is left of May after the forest fire till we can assess the meaningful vote chances.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    RobD said:

    I

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    That's the sort of sh*t talk that got us into this mess. Of course Britain would 'exist'.

    And leavers had the temerity of accusing remain of Project Fear ...
    As a province. No doubt with borders drawn up in Brussels (see their Euro-regions as a classic example).
    A prime example of the resultant of defecation by the male of the bovine species. Dickhead!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 8,938
    Democrats have conceded Florida. Following hand recount Republicans had a 10,000 vote lead.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,312

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    That's the sort of sh*t talk that got us into this mess. Of course Britain would 'exist'.

    And leavers had the temerity of accusing remain of Project Fear ...
    +1
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 78,311
    edited November 2018
  • Re: VoNC et al . This is terrorism not conventional warfare from the ERG. Tomorrow is Day 6 of the media grid. If we spend another day discussing leadership process rather than May selling her deal the ERG wins. I'm outside the PB consensus on this but I think the " oh look they still don't have 48 " takes are missing the point. At least in the short term.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,189
    He wrote a risible column in the Times this week going on about War Cabinets. WW2 fetishing.

    As for writing, I’d have thought a good writer would have used “rarely” not “never (or hardly ever)”.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    RobD said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    To prevent a single power dominating Europe? That’s exactly the direction the EU is heading. And was the primary purpose of those wars to ensure free trade with europe? I don’t think it was...
    British prosperity for 400 years has depended on being able to trade freely and unencumbered. When that ability to trade has been restricted they have gone to war to protect it. The most obvious threat throughout that time has obviously been as a result of being able to trade with those closest to us, ie. continental Europe. So yes, ultimately fighting wars on continental Europe were about trading with Europe and the threat that events in continental europe posed to our ability to trade with the wider world.
  • Going forward you have to ask whether the Tories will need to institutionalise all this on the Australian or German model. Probably a DUP/UKIP merger field candidates UK wide in some seats with Conservatives in all the others. They agree a Westminster caucus so everyone knows what government they are voting for but all this **** is dealt with via coalition negotiations after every pre/post election rather than intra party chaos. It would give the Conservatives an incentive to move centre to try and win a majority in their own right.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited November 2018

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Britain did indeed fight all of Europe’s aspiring hegemons. We were never alone; the rest of Europe did not much like the idea of being subject to the rule of Spain, France or Germany, depending on the period in question.

    The E.U. is a voluntary union of states. There is nothing British foreign policy could have done to prevent its formation, especially after the decision not to join the ECSC in 1952. References to our wars of coalition are anachronistic and irrelevant.

    The E.U. as Europe’s hegemon is a fact of life. Our choices are merger in the hope that we will have sufficient influence to defend our interests, or separation and acceptance that the E.U. will still weigh very heavily in our national life, and our trading relationship will be weaker than the constituent states, in exchange for greater autonomy on other matters. These are our choices.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000
    OchEye said:

    RobD said:

    I

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    That's the sort of sh*t talk that got us into this mess. Of course Britain would 'exist'.

    And leavers had the temerity of accusing remain of Project Fear ...
    As a province. No doubt with borders drawn up in Brussels (see their Euro-regions as a classic example).
    A prime example of the resultant of defecation by the male of the bovine species. Dickhead!
    Charming.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 12,149
    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    alex. said:
    Good. The market, like life, finds a way.. I expect a no deal to monstrously disruptive. But it is possible for a last minute deal to happen that involves continuation of some treaty agreements around air passenger travel and recognition of drivers licenses, importation and exportation.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
  • Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 50,461
    The public will dislike it because it is a compromise, and people on left and right will be advocating more extreme, more appealing options.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
  • notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    ERG were making much about it going on until 2099
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    ERG were making much about it going on until 2099
    That’s more to do with anything that doesn’t involve building a wall at Dover and filling in the channel tunnel, the ERG deem to be a betrayal.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 10,900
    I think you're right.
    notme said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Did your local parish council eradicate smallpox or, by making a combination of three antibiotics available upon demand to every leper on the planet, reduce the number of lepers worldwide to under a quarter of a million?
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,181


    ERG were making much about it going on until 2099

    That's because the ERG are, by and large, a bit unhinged. It was just a last little niggling detail whether it would be 2 or 3 years.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?
  • The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    We accepted vassal status when we joined the EEC.
  • Andrew said:


    ERG were making much about it going on until 2099

    That's because the ERG are, by and large, a bit unhinged. It was just a last little niggling detail whether it would be 2 or 3 years.
    Stewart Jackson holding hands in horror apparently saying Barnier will keep us in the EU until 2022. Last night ERG were saying forever.

    To be fair it is only 12 months later
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    viewcode said:

    I think you're right.

    notme said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Did your local parish council eradicate smallpox or, by making a combination of three antibiotics available upon demand to every leper on the planet, reduce the number of lepers worldwide to under a quarter of a million?
    No but they’ve pointed out that the owners of The Gables Cottage have replaced their wooden front windows with upvc, and as this is a conservation area, they should have applied for the necessary consent from the district council.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100
    edited November 2018
    notme said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Maybe so, although the chances of your parish council being able to influence global CO2 production, for example, is precisely zero.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100
    notme said:

    viewcode said:

    I think you're right.

    notme said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Did your local parish council eradicate smallpox or, by making a combination of three antibiotics available upon demand to every leper on the planet, reduce the number of lepers worldwide to under a quarter of a million?
    No but they’ve pointed out that the owners of The Gables Cottage have replaced their wooden front windows with upvc, and as this is a conservation area, they should have applied for the necessary consent from the district council.

    So they didn't actually even prevent that?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
  • Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    And yet the number of independent countries has increased significantly over the decades since WW2. If your thesis were correct then the USSR would not have disintegrated, nor Yugoslavia. Separate countries are linked to their polities. They are an expression of those shared cultural, political and societal values which allow a basic form of democracy to exist. This is why the move to supranational governance (as opposed to cooperation) is a diminution of democracy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,000

    notme said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Maybe so, although the chances of your parish council being able to influence global CO2 production, for example, is precisely zero.
    Same could be said for the UN ;)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Andrew said:

    That's because the ERG are, by and large, a bit unhinged.

  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    That was the starting point of the thread. There is actually massive demand for warehousing at the moment already, brexit or no brexit; so we should not be surprised if the market starts becoming very stretched
  • What no thread on the demise of fluffers....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 6,294
    edited November 2018

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    And yet the number of independent countries has increased significantly over the decades since WW2. If your thesis were correct then the USSR would not have disintegrated, nor Yugoslavia. Separate countries are linked to their polities. They are an expression of those shared cultural, political and societal values which allow a basic form of democracy to exist. This is why the move to supranational governance (as opposed to cooperation) is a diminution of democracy.
    In which case, we should move to greater devolution. Dismantling our Over-centralisation of powers, coupled with a radical updating of our (unwritten) Constitution is one possible side benefit of Brexit.
    One which is never made by its proponents, AFAIK.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100
    RobD said:

    notme said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Maybe so, although the chances of your parish council being able to influence global CO2 production, for example, is precisely zero.
    Same could be said for the UN ;)
    Well, to be fair, I think @Viewcode's response to @notme's purile nonsense was better put than mine. :smile:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 25,914
    matt said:

    He wrote a risible column in the Times this week going on about War Cabinets. WW2 fetishing.

    As for writing, I’d have thought a good writer would have used “rarely” not “never (or hardly ever)”.
    Surely a soto voce reference to Gilbert & Sullivan

    Never!
    What, never?
    Well, Hardly Ever!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 5,102

    Andrew said:


    ERG were making much about it going on until 2099

    That's because the ERG are, by and large, a bit unhinged. It was just a last little niggling detail whether it would be 2 or 3 years.
    Stewart Jackson holding hands in horror apparently saying Barnier will keep us in the EU until 2022. Last night ERG were saying forever.

    To be fair it is only 12 months later
    It's significant because IIRC the date is 31 December 2022 which is after the next general election. The trade deal might not be completed by the time of the next election (and on track record won't be) so it could be changed by the incoming party at the GE - indeed could be a key determinant of that election.

    This is going to go on for a while yet - unless we have a referendum in April and Remain wins with MEPs elected in May in the usual way. Then we can get on with our lives.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,467

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The French and German deep states won't be able to believe their luck. The French will be laughing at our self immolation as they've been through the same thing - decolonisation and WW2 - but curiously their vastly more negative experience of both have left them able to move on in a way we haven't. Or perhaps merely project different but more healthy and sustainable national mythologies.

    The Germans much be laughing as we are handing them a manifest destiny to lead a nacent superpower. Something they've always slightly shunned. But we are doing in such a shameless and shabby way it absolves war guilt allowing them to seize that manifest destiny with a previously impossible pride.

    And where these merge at European level to form a Franco-German deep date, the engine of the EU , the laughter is greater still.

    Britain fought 7 major continental and/or World Wars over several centuries to keep keep Europe open to free trade and prevent a single power dominating the continent. And now quite voluntarily here we are dumping 500 years of foreign policy and accepting vassal state status. For what ? And why ?

    Because ever closer union means that Britain would, eventually, simply cease to exist.
    Though Brexit also means a high probability of the end of Britain as a political entity.
    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!
    And yet the number of independent countries has increased significantly over the decades since WW2. If your thesis were correct then the USSR would not have disintegrated, nor Yugoslavia. Separate countries are linked to their polities. They are an expression of those shared cultural, political and societal values which allow a basic form of democracy to exist. This is why the move to supranational governance (as opposed to cooperation) is a diminution of democracy.
    It’s precisely the supranational governance that facilitates the existence of ‘independent’ states as opposed to them being dominated by imperial powers.
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    What no thread on the demise of fluffers....

    Hardly a fit topic for PB imho (although I am sure one could erect and argument to the contrary.)
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 25,914
    notme said:

    alex. said:
    Good. The market, like life, finds a way.. I expect a no deal to monstrously disruptive. But it is possible for a last minute deal to happen that involves continuation of some treaty agreements around air passenger travel and recognition of drivers licenses, importation and exportation.
    I though I’d read somewhere that as part of this deal the EU has committed not to stop planes flying etc regardless of whether the Desl is passed
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 29,831
    notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    Wasn't it always 2020 - just with part Roman numerals to show how, you know, they are integrating bits of other Euro-culture.....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 10,900
    notme said:

    viewcode said:

    I think you're right.

    notme said:



    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly with problems such as climate change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!

    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Did your local parish council eradicate smallpox or, by making a combination of three antibiotics available upon demand to every leper on the planet, reduce the number of lepers worldwide to under a quarter of a million?
    No but they’ve pointed out that the owners of The Gables Cottage have replaced their wooden front windows with upvc, and as this is a conservation area, they should have applied for the necessary consent from the district council.

    D'y'know, I'm genuinely touched. Proper observance of planning regulations preserving the appearance of an area. Well done. Carry on (wanders away whistling "the blue lamp")...😀
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
    Provide case studies of JIT in practice then. Should be simple for you self labelled intelligensia.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 6,294

    What no thread on the demise of fluffers....

    Hardly a fit topic for PB imho (although I am sure one could erect and argument to the contrary.)
    Am blowed if I could.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    viewcode said:

    notme said:

    viewcode said:

    I think you're right.

    notme said:



    +1
    I think countries will cease to exist in their current legal context in centuries to come anyway, Brexit just means the demise of the UK comes quicker and for a different reason.

    At some point if globalisation continues a world executive is likely, particularly withe change, population increases and resource depletion being so difficult to solve with the current decision making infrastructure. Conversely If you look back to how the UK was formed, small areas were amalgamated into larger areas over hundreds of years to form what we have now. I think the only way is up!

    I would have more faith in my local parish council to make a balanced informed decision than the current world governing institutions such as the UN.
    Did your local parish council eradicate smallpox or, by making a combination of three antibiotics available upon demand to every leper on the planet, reduce the number of lepers worldwide to under a quarter of a million?
    No but they’ve pointed out that the owners of The Gables Cottage have replaced their wooden front windows with upvc, and as this is a conservation area, they should have applied for the necessary consent from the district council.

    D'y'know, I'm genuinely touched. Proper observance of planning regulations preserving the appearance of an area. Well done. Carry on (wanders away whistling "the blue lamp")...😀
    You may mock... but planning is probably the single biggest generator of case work for those involved in the wonders of local government.

  • It’s precisely the supranational governance that facilitates the existence of ‘independent’ states as opposed to them being dominated by imperial powers.

    No it isn't. The UN is not supranational governance (unless you are one of those nutters who think they are a secret world government). It is a system of cooperation. The same applies to NATO. What Taxman seems to be referring to and you are certainly the cheerleader for is moving lawmaking and government from the nation state to supranational; bodies like the EU. That is bound to end in failure and, if previous examples are anything to go by, war.
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
    Provide case studies of JIT in practice then. Should be simple for you self labelled intelligensia.
    You do not have a clue do you.

    Google 'just in time manufacturing' and you will see it explained and how it is crucial to our car and aerospace production plants
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
    Provide case studies of JIT in practice then. Should be simple for you self labelled intelligensia.
    You do not have a clue do you.

    Google 'just in time manufacturing' and you will see it explained and how it is crucial to our car and aerospace production plants
    So provide the case studies then detailing this JIT.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
    It's a fair point - but I do feel the need to help where I can. :wink:
  • I hear JIT is also crucial for male performers in the adult industry...will they be affected by no deal Brexit?
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
    Provide case studies of JIT in practice then. Should be simple for you self labelled intelligensia.
    Hahahaha.

    Well Big_G, as you know I have a great deal of respect for you, but (and no offence intended) I never expected you to be called out as one of the "self-labelled intelligensia".

    The more these extreme Hard Brexiteers comment, the more ridiculous they appear. Applies equally on PB as to the ERG.
  • Well its no surprise that HS2 is behind schedule and over budget but note the third paragraph:

    ' The £56bn HS2 rail line is expected to be delayed by more than a year after it emerged in contract talks that the building project was at risk of soaring over budget.

    Sources said costs for the “main works civil contracts” on the London-to-Birmingham stretch — including bridges, tunnels and embankments — had come in “several billion pounds” over the official budget of £6.6bn. That work is due to start next year.

    The threatened budget blowout emerged from negotiations with construction companies that won huge packages of work on the line last year and could threaten the project’s viability. A cabinet minister told The Sunday Times last month a growing number of colleagues believed the scheme should be cancelled. '

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hs2-project-delayed-by-a-year-as-budget-balloons-h0ltxtpzj
  • Barnesian said:

    Andrew said:


    ERG were making much about it going on until 2099

    That's because the ERG are, by and large, a bit unhinged. It was just a last little niggling detail whether it would be 2 or 3 years.
    Stewart Jackson holding hands in horror apparently saying Barnier will keep us in the EU until 2022. Last night ERG were saying forever.

    To be fair it is only 12 months later
    It's significant because IIRC the date is 31 December 2022 which is after the next general election. The trade deal might not be completed by the time of the next election (and on track record won't be) so it could be changed by the incoming party at the GE - indeed could be a key determinant of that election.

    This is going to go on for a while yet - unless we have a referendum in April and Remain wins with MEPs elected in May in the usual way. Then we can get on with our lives.
    That would be bliss. But news tonight that 18 labour mps will vote down a second referendum makes it look dead in the water. And that does not include Corbyn and McDonnell who absolutely will vote it down
  • dixiedean said:


    In which case, we should move to greater devolution. Dismantling our Over-centralisation of powers, coupled with a radical updating of our (unwritten) Constitution is one possible side benefit of Brexit.
    One which is never made by its proponents, AFAIK.

    Um. I am a big fan of devolution - and of course of Scottish Independence. I always get flak on here for pointing out I believe it is illogical to be a Brexiteer for reasons of self determination and yet oppose Scottish Independence. I would be delighted to see real powers devolved to counties and districts but I am always told this is impossible because all local councillors are so corrupt and in hoc to vested interests.

    I exaggerate of course but that is an argument I hear time and time again.

    I would love Brexit to be just the first step in a reformation of our systems of governance.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    "... from there... "
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    I hear JIT is also crucial for male performers in the adult industry...will they be affected by no deal Brexit?


    Yes indeed, they are going to have a hard time of it.
  • notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    Wasn't it always 2020 - just with part Roman numerals to show how, you know, they are integrating bits of other Euro-culture.....
    No - it was 20XX but tonight Barnier has confirmed both sides have agreed 2022
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited November 2018

    notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    Wasn't it always 2020 - just with part Roman numerals to show how, you know, they are integrating bits of other Euro-culture.....
    It is still 2020. This clause is about a single potential one off extension to the transition period IF THE UK GOVT REQUESTS IT. The ERG are incapable of understanding that this is nothing to do with the EU "trapping us in" for as long as possible but something that we THE UK REQUESTED to ease our transition to new arrangements. In fact we will have to pay for it.

    EDIT: sorry 2021 (for the default on the transition period end).
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    "... from there... "
    So having lost the argument completely all you have now is being a grammar police person.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited November 2018

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    I think most of us who are better informed know how the single market has facilitated an EU wide supply chain, not just in manufacturing but in food. Just in time of cours is part of that but not all of it.

    Our supermarkets long time since changed how they hold stock. It comes in a lorry it comes off the lorry and is shifted into the store pretty quick. The storage offered by the store that isn’t on shelves is minimal. So there isn’t much resilience built in for delays etc. The modern British supermarket is probably the most efficient distributor of food in the history of mankind.

    In manufacturing the just in time while important is not as critical, it’s more about trade without borders and checks. Nissan will source its supply chain continent wide, as it doesn’t make that much difference if the supplier is in Doncaster or Gdańsk, if the efficiencies offered by Gdańsk outweigh the extra costs of delivery.

    But this is because that’s now they’ve got used to operating. For some work I do I used to order about £500 to £1,000 of stock a month. Used to get it largely from the same supplier to save postage.

    Now I just order the goods as I need them with a pretty much universal guarantee of getting it next day.

    I changed my model of purchasing because the technology and options facilitated it.

    For Nissan it’s more about frictionless trade. For perishables it’s about just in time.
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    You cannot expect brexiteers to understand simple fundamentals about JIT manufacturing Ben

    They are clueless on manufacturing and the importance of the union.

    After all their annointed Boris told Airbus to FO
    Provide case studies of JIT in practice then. Should be simple for you self labelled intelligensia.
    Hahahaha.

    Well Big_G, as you know I have a great deal of respect for you, but (and no offence intended) I never expected you to be called out as one of the "self-labelled intelligensia".

    The more these extreme Hard Brexiteers comment, the more ridiculous they appear. Applies equally on PB as to the ERG.
    Indeed
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 12,149

    I hear JIT is also crucial for male performers in the adult industry...will they be affected by no deal Brexit?


    Yes indeed, they are going to have a hard time of it.
    I am sure it will come good, with a happy ending.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    alex. said:

    notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    Wasn't it always 2020 - just with part Roman numerals to show how, you know, they are integrating bits of other Euro-culture.....
    It is still 2020. This clause is about a single potential one off extension to the transition period IF THE UK GOVT REQUESTS IT. The ERG are incapable of understanding that this is nothing to do with the EU "trapping us in" for as long as possible but something that we THE UK REQUESTED to ease our transition to new arrangements. In fact we will have to pay for it.

    EDIT: sorry 2021 (for the default on the transition period end).
    The likes of Nadine Dorries are apoplectic that we are agreeing to a transition period with no commissioner, MEPs etc...
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    You are demonstrating the utter lack of knowledge so evident in ERG
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    "... from there... "
    So having lost the argument completely all you have now is being a grammar police person.
    I lost the will to argue against a brick wall. Take that you have won if it makes you feel better. :smile:
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    On topic but at the same time completely off topic. It is genuinely frightening how much our manufacturing depends on these JiT systems. If they can be derailed by something as minor as Brexit then god help us if we have a real problem like a Carrington event or a case of nuclear terrorism.

    When I did the course on nuclear terrorism last year one of the points that was made was that it would only take one attack - and not even a successful one - on any major port around the world and world trade would grind to a halt completely. The security systems on these ports may be very good in some instances - at least with regard to stopping dangerous items leaving the port and getting into the country itself - but as far as checking or stopping anything entering the port itself they are non existent. The delays that would result from putting in place a proper security system would render JiT completely obsolete.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,961

    alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    You are demonstrating the utter lack of knowledge so evident in ERG
    Why can you not provide the case studies proof points for your argument?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,100
    alex. said:

    notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    Wasn't it always 2020 - just with part Roman numerals to show how, you know, they are integrating bits of other Euro-culture.....
    It is still 2020. This clause is about a single potential one off extension to the transition period IF THE UK GOVT REQUESTS IT. The ERG are incapable of understanding that this is nothing to do with the EU "trapping us in" for as long as possible but something that we THE UK REQUESTED to ease our transition to new arrangements. In fact we will have to pay for it.

    EDIT: sorry 2021 (for the default on the transition period end).

    Indeed. That the Hard Brexiteers have had to resort to fake news shows they are rattled.

    I suspect May's deal (or something very much like it) will get past the HoC in the next month.
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    "... from there... "
    So having lost the argument completely all you have now is being a grammar police person.
    With respect you are looking rather ill informed on a vital matter to our car and aerospace industry
  • alex. said:
    Warehousing has been one of the fastest growing sectors in the last few years - already well underwater
    Why do we need warehouses I read on here and in the press constantly that membership of the EU means we have JIT supply chains and no warehousing is required?

    FFS!! JIT supply chains are one of the things a No Deal Brexit would royally screw! So we would need more warehouse space.
    One thing I am interested in is we have been told so often about JIT supply chains you would thought that the CBI, the Govt, all the other vested interests of staying in the EU would have been able to have produced case study after case study of JIT supply chains operating in practice. Yet we have nada, not one. Makes me a bit suspicious and wanting some facts.
    I am not sure if you have ever come across a useful internet search tool called Google but you should really try it some time. Using it to search for "JIT supply chains in the UK" produces 890,000 results. Here are a couple:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

    There are no proof points in any of your links about JIT from European suppliers.

    They could be using a system of continental suppliers keeping stock in a UK warehouse which is then sent from their to meet the JIT timescale.

    "... from there... "
    So having lost the argument completely all you have now is being a grammar police person.
    With respect you are looking rather ill informed on a vital matter to our car and aerospace industry
  • December '22 is still very tight indeed. It suggests End State is agreed and ratified in 3 years 9 months after we leave. It creates another cliff edge giving power to the EU as the Transition can only be extended once. It's Barnier quite reasonably upping the ante. He's saying to the ERG " If you reopen this so we will we. "
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited November 2018

    alex. said:

    notme said:

    Just read that the option for a one off extension to the transition period shown in the draft treaty has now been changed from 20XX to 2022. Significant move

    The XX was only ever there because it was a draft not because it was going to be open ended.
    Wasn't it always 2020 - just with part Roman numerals to show how, you know, they are integrating bits of other Euro-culture.....
    It is still 2020. This clause is about a single potential one off extension to the transition period IF THE UK GOVT REQUESTS IT. The ERG are incapable of understanding that this is nothing to do with the EU "trapping us in" for as long as possible but something that we THE UK REQUESTED to ease our transition to new arrangements. In fact we will have to pay for it.

    EDIT: sorry 2021 (for the default on the transition period end).

    Indeed. That the Hard Brexiteers have had to resort to fake news shows they are rattled.

    I suspect May's deal (or something very much like it) will get past the HoC in the next month.
    I wish it were them "resorting to fake news". At least then there is the scope for them to self examine whether they are quite on the right course. I think a lot of them genuinely believe what they are saying....

    Even if you manage (with difficulty) to get them to understand this basic point about the transition period being a UK desire, it just reaffirms to them that May is a remainer who is trying to thwart Brexit.
This discussion has been closed.