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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Northern Ireland polling suggests that a no deal Brexit co

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited December 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Northern Ireland polling suggests that a no deal Brexit could lead to what the IRA never achieved – a united Ireland

Generally speaking Northern Ireland gets ignored in national polls which are confined to England, Wales and Scotland. This is because the party structure in the province is very different with most people voting on sectarian lines.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 8,715
    Firstly?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 45,024
    Yes, probably it will unify. Soon? Depends how soon is soon, but more pressingly will the DUP and Brexit hardliners risk it? Yes. Not because they want unification, but because they don't believe it will happen no matter what they do, so they will do whatever they want.
  • It’s official, the Brexiteers are worse than the IRA.

    No wonder Putin backs Brexit.
  • The committed Leavers won't care. Brexit is a project for rural England.
  • Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 8,715
    It seems increasingly possible that May's deal will get through because the alternatives, No Deal or 2nd Ref, are too fraught.

    But it's going to be hard for the DUP and ERG opponents to switch their positions without having some face-saver to hide behind. I just can't see where that face-saver will come from at the moment tbh.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
  • RobD said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
    The real power is elsewhere.

    Must I remind you Starfleet’s finest captain was a Frenchman.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823

    RobD said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
    The real power is elsewhere.

    Must I remind you Starfleet’s finest captain was a Frenchman.
    Thinking about it, this must be the universe where the treaty of Troyes was respected. Picard’s English was impeccable. :p
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,262
    edited December 2018
    Do Karen Bradley's 'no deal' preparations include scheduling a border poll?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,862
    kle4 said:

    Yes, probably it will unify. Soon? Depends how soon is soon, but more pressingly will the DUP and Brexit hardliners risk it? Yes. Not because they want unification, but because they don't believe it will happen no matter what they do, so they will do whatever they want.

    The feedback loop that the DUP has grown up on is : intransigence equals concessions.

    Which is one of those things which is true until it isn't.
  • A GB poll asking people if they care what happens to NI would be interesting.

    I suspect 'it's up to them' would be the majority view.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 45,024

    It seems increasingly possible that May's deal will get through because the alternatives, No Deal or 2nd Ref, are too fraught.

    But it's going to be hard for the DUP and ERG opponents to switch their positions without having some face-saver to hide behind. I just can't see where that face-saver will come from at the moment tbh.

    Not when they've ruled out anything that is not along the lines of, say, legally binding changes to the WA. Having committed so fully against the WA I don't see how the DUP, ERG and Labour will be able to shift direction enough.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,947
    edited December 2018
    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.
  • Do Karen Bradley's 'no deal' preparations include scheduling a border poll?

    Lots of polls. With razor wire strung between them. And searchlights. And big dogs.
  • Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland.

    That is undoubtedly the case.
  • Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    Brexit has shown there are more important things than money and GDP.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,262

    Lots of polls. With razor wire strung between them. And searchlights. And big dogs.

    The dogs are to prevent anyone trying to implement a technological border with drones?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,337

    It seems increasingly possible that May's deal will get through because the alternatives, No Deal or 2nd Ref, are too fraught.

    But it's going to be hard for the DUP and ERG opponents to switch their positions without having some face-saver to hide behind. I just can't see where that face-saver will come from at the moment tbh.

    This is the problem - May is hoping, unlike Micawber, that something won't turn up and fear will do the rest. As I've always said, frightened people will sign away their sous not to be frightened any more.

    IF the WA does fall, however, and May is determined there is to be No Deal, fine. Let her propose to the Commons the revocation of A50 and the cancelling of Brexit - let it be done in her name and that of the Conservative Party so every LEAVE voter will know exactly who to blame for us still being in the EU.
  • kle4 said:

    It seems increasingly possible that May's deal will get through because the alternatives, No Deal or 2nd Ref, are too fraught.

    But it's going to be hard for the DUP and ERG opponents to switch their positions without having some face-saver to hide behind. I just can't see where that face-saver will come from at the moment tbh.

    Not when they've ruled out anything that is not along the lines of, say, legally binding changes to the WA. Having committed so fully against the WA I don't see how the DUP, ERG and Labour will be able to shift direction enough.

    By quiet use of judicious abstention.

    By the way, on the figures of the NI Poll, the DUP would do best to back remain. I think the two issues need to be kept separate. It is quite possible to be a conscientious Leaver while also respecting Ireland's and NIs right to self determination
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 1,969
    edited December 2018

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 45,024
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    It seems increasingly possible that May's deal will get through because the alternatives, No Deal or 2nd Ref, are too fraught.

    But it's going to be hard for the DUP and ERG opponents to switch their positions without having some face-saver to hide behind. I just can't see where that face-saver will come from at the moment tbh.

    Not when they've ruled out anything that is not along the lines of, say, legally binding changes to the WA. Having committed so fully against the WA I don't see how the DUP, ERG and Labour will be able to shift direction enough.

    By quiet use of judicious abstention.

    They still need to justify how they can allow something so terrible to pass when they could have prevented it. That is not easy for them.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634

    A GB poll asking people if they care what happens to NI would be interesting.

    I suspect 'it's up to them' would be the majority view.

    I think that would probably be the case of a poll of English voters about Scotland. Although in that case perhaps with frustrated overtones of "but they need to make their bloody minds up".
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 1,969

    RobD said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
    The real power is elsewhere.

    Must I remind you Starfleet’s finest captain was a Frenchman.
    Hmm, so in which year in the Star Trek universe does France annex Iowa?
  • rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
    The real power is elsewhere.

    Must I remind you Starfleet’s finest captain was a Frenchman.
    Hmm, so in which year in the Star Trek universe does France annex Iowa?
    Picard is better than Kirk, in any universe/timeline.
  • Presumably the GFA specifies the criteria of when the U.K. Gov believes that a border poll would be likely to lead to a result in favour of Orish reunification. It can’t simply be a one off poll speculating on Brexit.

    If the criteria are satisfied, the Gov should hold that border poll. It might well make life more complicated within GB, making a GE inevitable and possibly increasing the likelihood of Scottish independence but honouring the GFA is what has made the backstop such a mess.

    The Gov can’t very well say it is honouring it’s obligations under the GFA by proposing a backstop if it doesn’t honour its obligation to hold a border poll.

    The fact that the ROI can’t possibly integrate the North will change many prople’s minds I suspect
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,037

    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
    The real power is elsewhere.

    Must I remind you Starfleet’s finest captain was a Frenchman.
    Hmm, so in which year in the Star Trek universe does France annex Iowa?
    Picard is better than Kirk, in any universe/timeline.
    cough cough Sisko cough cough
  • That said Chris Pine is sex on legs.

    Perhaps Kirk is better than Picard on one front.
  • viewcode said:

    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    With a presidency in France? No thank you. :p
    The real power is elsewhere.

    Must I remind you Starfleet’s finest captain was a Frenchman.
    Hmm, so in which year in the Star Trek universe does France annex Iowa?
    Picard is better than Kirk, in any universe/timeline.
    cough cough Sisko cough cough
    I was excluding Gods.
  • Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series.
  • Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series.

    It is.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,037

    Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series.

    Problem is, such judgements are made in retrospect. Watching it in the 90's it was not very good for much of its run: it was only in the later series it got good.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    A GB poll asking people if they care what happens to NI would be interesting.

    I suspect 'it's up to them' would be the majority view.

    I suspect that "good riddance" would pip it at the post.
  • rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
  • Mr. Code, that is fair. Some of the earlier episodes were ropey, but that was true of TNG as well. And the premise of Voyager getting dragged to the Delta Quadrant was, ahem, of questionable value.
  • The committed Leavers won't care. Brexit is a project for rural England.


    That’s why Wales voted Leave is it ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823

    Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series.

    It is.
    Thirded.

    Mr Dancer, Duet was the best episode in the first season by far.
  • Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    Of course Star Trek shows that the Union still exists in 2259
    https://scifanatic-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/stid-sb-01.jpg
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    The committed Leavers won't care. Brexit is a project for rural England.

    and former coalfield towns.
  • Does anyone know how consumption levels in NI compare with the UK in general ?

    Because consumption per head in the UK is at 114 compared with 93 in the RoI (100 being the EU average):

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumptionperhead/2018
  • Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As opposed to the Rangers lion?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,521
    viewcode said:

    Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series.

    Problem is, such judgements are made in retrospect. Watching it in the 90's it was not very good for much of its run: it was only in the later series it got good.
    It is probably "my" era trek, watching as a young boy (I was a bit too young for TNG). But even watching it as an adult, surely Season 1 DS9 looks infinitely better than Season 1 TNG - which was a bit hammy and unsure of itself (and had that awfully racist episode "Code of Honor" which must have looked dated by 1987 standards, let alone 2018). DS9 was gritty from the start. Sisko showing up on the broken and war torn space station to meet a first officer who doesn't trust him and a security chief who outright disrespects him. DS9 was ahead of its time in a way that TNG never was.

    Also it had Garak, who was the best supporting character of any series.
  • Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 1,969

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    Of course Star Trek shows that the Union still exists in 2259
    https://scifanatic-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/stid-sb-01.jpg
    But in a state of distress, judging by the upside-down Union Flags.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,344

    The committed Leavers won't care. Brexit is a project for rural England.

    That doesn't entirely explain why 40% of London voted Brexit.

    But I mainly wanted to say how much I enjoyed your previous thread header. Thank you.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    More on this sad story.:

    https://www.connection-at-stmartins.org.uk/news-item/condolences-for-gyula-remes/

    Just before his death he told us he was working part-time as a kitchen porter, and working towards getting into full-time employment. We were also helping him to get into a night shelter whilst he secured a full-time job.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,549
    edited December 2018
    Deep Space 9 had Dr Julian Bashir, Section 31, far too many Ferengi, an inordinate number of episodes on the holodeck and in mirror worlds and all the Bajoran mumbo jumbo. Not the best for me.

    I liked the Jem Hadar and Weyoun though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823
    rpjs said:

    Still amuses me that the BBC refused to air an episode of Star Trek: TNG because it included a line that Ireland reunified in 2024.

    Star Trek is always right, a vast political and military union and alliance is the way to go.

    Of course Star Trek shows that the Union still exists in 2259
    https://scifanatic-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/stid-sb-01.jpg
    But in a state of distress, judging by the upside-down Union Flags.
    Another reason to refuse the canonicity of new trek.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland.

    That is undoubtedly the case.

    Yep - “the Project” is if you are a committed europhile. Give the people of NI the choice. If they vote for a United Ireland, and the ROI has an unqualified obligation to unify the two parts, unification and the problems that come with it becomes their problem.

    If not, NI is very welcome to stay in the U.K, at least as far as I am concerned. That’s democracy.
  • Gul Dukat was cool too.

    Mr. Meeks, yeah, the Ferengi nonsense wasn't great. But nothing's perfect.

    Well. Maybe the fourth series of Babylon 5.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,344
    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,893
    viewcode said:

    Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series.

    Problem is, such judgements are made in retrospect. Watching it in the 90's it was not very good for much of its run: it was only in the later series it got good.
    Mrs J has never seen it (although she's really into sci-fi, Star Trek never really appealed). A while back we watched DS9's first episode, and it was absolutely, hideously pants. She has no desire to watch the rest; a shame, as I remember much of it being good (at least by Star Trek's standards.

    If you want really bad sci-fi though, look no further than Doctor Who. We recently watched the first episode of the new series and it stank. Nothing to do with the person playing the doctor; just the writing. It was nonsense from start to finish.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
  • Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    Brexit has shown there are more important things than money and GDP.
    Yep - “the Project” is for committed europhiles who have the faith. Give the people of NI the choice. If they vote for a United Oreland, and the ROI has an unqualified obligation to unify the two parts, unification and the problems that come with it, become their problem.

    If not, NI is very welcome to stay in the U.K. in my opinion. That’s democracy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,640

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    There would be plenty of structural adjustment funds available if needed.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    That’s why the Republic’s debt burden per capita is higher than Greece’s is it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,207
    Is there is some irony in the fact that someone from Boston won the money on the Eurolottery.

    After all, we won't be able to buy tickets in it after March 29th will we?
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46649704

    We're definitely not being told something.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823

    Is there is some irony in the fact that someone from Boston won the money on the Eurolottery.

    After all, we won't be able to buy tickets in it after March 29th will we?

    Nothing to do with the EU.
  • Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I've heard several people suggesting that the government was somehow behind it.

    Though those people are less sure as to why.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    That’s why the Republic’s debt burden per capita is higher than Greece’s is it.
    But Ireland has the economic prospects to grow out of that debt, with a well educated English speaking workforce and high tech industries, plus a worldwide diaspora in support. It would be the best thing that has happened in Ireland for decades.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    GDP is not the most relevant measure as to the well being of the Irish economy.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634

    Is there is some irony in the fact that someone from Boston won the money on the Eurolottery.

    After all, we won't be able to buy tickets in it after March 29th will we?

    People in Switzerland can...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    That’s why the Republic’s debt burden per capita is higher than Greece’s is it.
    But Ireland has the economic prospects to grow out of that debt, with a well educated English speaking workforce and high tech industries, plus a worldwide diaspora in support. It would be the best thing that has happened in Ireland for decades.
    Until the next eurozone crisis and they come cap in hand to the exchequer for another billion or two.
  • Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I've heard several people suggesting that the government was somehow behind it.

    Though those people are less sure as to why.
    More likely that Heathrow Airport is responsible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,822
    edited December 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 1,976
    A united Ireland would be wonderful revenge on the DUP for backing Leave and acting as if they talk for the whole of NI.

    It’s clear they want a hard border and are stupidly short sighted .

    I had to laugh listening to LBC when a Leave caller rang up moaning they’re going to lose their freedom of movement and had wanted to retire to Spain ! Because of course some Brits think they’re special and stopping FOM was only going to be for EU nationals, all they had to do was wave their blue passport and the world was their oyster !

    That’s the thing Leavers don’t understand , normally votes don’t remove other peoples rights but Brexit did and that’s why there’s no chance of the country coming together .

    Brits will now be second class citizens of Europe , less rights and freedoms . Thank heavens my parents were born in an EU country and I can remain a proud citizen of the EU .

    What a tragedy for those who aren’t that lucky especially younger people who were completely betrayed by many of their grandparents who should be utterly ashamed !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
  • Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    so they did it?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,714
    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I had wondered whether it is the Russians flexing their muscles and running a dry run for this type of thing. Putin has said he welcomes Brexit, his country may well have financed Leave.

    It does not take a massive stretch of the imagination to wonder if he has plans to cripple the economy even more if a No Deal Brexit occurs. What better way for hostile states to the UK to cause further shocks to the economy than close all the big airports down with drones operated by Russian agents or private contractors? Its cost to them maybe £10,000 for the equipment and the man power very little. Its cost to our economy massive!

    A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy and the economic fallout will leave the UK less able to protect itself from hostile states.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I had wondered whether it is the Russians flexing their muscles and running a dry run for this type of thing. Putin has said he welcomes Brexit, his country may well have financed Leave.

    It does not take a massive stretch of the imagination to wonder if he has plans to cripple the economy even more if a No Deal Brexit occurs. What better way for hostile states to the UK to cause further shocks to the economy than close all the big airports down with drones operated by Russian agents or private contractors? Its cost to them maybe £10,000 for the equipment and the man power very little. Its cost to our economy massive!

    A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy and the economic fallout will leave the UK less able to protect itself from hostile states.
    They can do that with or without Brexit.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    That’s why the Republic’s debt burden per capita is higher than Greece’s is it.
    But Ireland has the economic prospects to grow out of that debt, with a well educated English speaking workforce and high tech industries, plus a worldwide diaspora in support. It would be the best thing that has happened in Ireland for decades.
    That’s why it’s national debt is increasing is it ? Against a backdrop of a shrinking world economy, higher EU contributions and possible access problems to U.K. markets, your optimism exceeds that of the most optimistic Brexiteers about Brexit.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 7,777

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
  • Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I've heard several people suggesting that the government was somehow behind it.

    Though those people are less sure as to why.
    More likely that Heathrow Airport is responsible.
    Now that's a new conspiracy idea.

    Here's someone else who caused chaos at Gatwick:

  • Deep Space 9 had Dr Julian Bashir, Section 31, far too many Ferengi, an inordinate number of episodes on the holodeck and in mirror worlds and all the Bajoran mumbo jumbo. Not the best for me.

    I liked the Jem Hadar and Weyoun though.

    A Mirror Universe nearly killed me.

    This scene, given the blatant sexual innuendo at the end.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 7,777

    The committed Leavers won't care. Brexit is a project for rural England.


    That’s why Wales voted Leave is it ?
    Look, facts have nothing to do with his wibbling.
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 11,181
    Deep Space 9. Became vaguely good after it started cribbing from Babylon 5.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 12,842
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
    That sounds like a Corbynite conspiracy theory...
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-army-said-to-use-israeli-made-system-to-end-drone-chaos-at-london-airport/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,037
    edited December 2018
    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    That’s why the Republic’s debt burden per capita is higher than Greece’s is it.
    But Ireland has the economic prospects to grow out of that debt, with a well educated English speaking workforce and high tech industries, plus a worldwide diaspora in support. It would be the best thing that has happened in Ireland for decades.
    That’s why it’s national debt is increasing is it ? Against a backdrop of a shrinking world economy, higher EU contributions and possible access problems to U.K. markeys, your optimism exceeds that ofthe most optimistic Brexiteers about Brexit.
    The world economy isn't shrinking.

    Yes, there would be short term hiccups, and quite possibly some population movements*, but resolving the legacy of colonialism would be a step forward for both our islands.

    *Some of my own ancestors were Irish Presbyterians from the 26 counties.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432
    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Brother in law, once removed?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,714
    edited December 2018
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I had wondered whether it is the Russians flexing their muscles and running a dry run for this type of thing. Putin has said he welcomes Brexit, his country may well have financed Leave.

    It does not take a massive stretch of the imagination to wonder if he has plans to cripple the economy even more if a No Deal Brexit occurs. What better way for hostile states to the UK to cause further shocks to the economy than close all the big airports down with drones operated by Russian agents or private contractors? Its cost to them maybe £10,000 for the equipment and the man power very little. Its cost to our economy massive!

    A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy and the economic fallout will leave the UK less able to protect itself from hostile states.
    They can do that with or without Brexit.
    Yes, but it has more economic and psychological impact if a No Deal Brexit occurs.

    Look to recent statements from the Chief officer of the Port of Dover on their inability to function in a hard Brexit. If you have all the ports gridlocked, then the airports are shutdown the economy will be severely impaired.

    Given the UKs present relations with Russia it is not inconceivable that this sort of attack on our infrastructure might be co-ordinated with the biggest self-imposed hit to our economy in years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 12,842
    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Fellow sufferer ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 47,178
    Alistair said:

    Deep Space 9. Became vaguely good after it started cribbing from Babylon 5.

    Deep Space 9 is 4 better than Babylon 5...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432
    Floater said:




    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
    I think that there is a good case that the short sharp austerity in Ireland, Iceland, Spain etc is a better way of managing than the long term grinding austerity that the UK chose.
  • viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Please help me as I am not sure of your query
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,262

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Pent up investment would be unleashed.
  • Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
    I know you display amazing cynicism but that is a step too far
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,325
    Gatwick reported suspended again
  • Drone back up at Gatwick - flights suspended
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 7,728
    edited December 2018
    Pro_Rata said:

    Gatwick reported suspended again

    LMAO.

    How incompetent are the "powers that be".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,823

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I had wondered whether it is the Russians flexing their muscles and running a dry run for this type of thing. Putin has said he welcomes Brexit, his country may well have financed Leave.

    It does not take a massive stretch of the imagination to wonder if he has plans to cripple the economy even more if a No Deal Brexit occurs. What better way for hostile states to the UK to cause further shocks to the economy than close all the big airports down with drones operated by Russian agents or private contractors? Its cost to them maybe £10,000 for the equipment and the man power very little. Its cost to our economy massive!

    A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy and the economic fallout will leave the UK less able to protect itself from hostile states.
    They can do that with or without Brexit.
    Yes, but it has more economic and psychological impact if a No Deal Brexit occurs.

    Look to recent statements from the Chief officer of the Port of Dover on their inability to function in a hard Brexit. If you have all the ports gridlocked, then the airports are shutdown the economy will be severely impaired.

    Given the UKs present relations with Russia it is not inconceivable that this sort of attack on our infrastructure might be co-ordinated with the biggest self-imposed hit to our economy in years.
    In my opinion it is more likely to be a non-state actor. I’m not sure what the response would be if it was found to be the Russians. Would be totally unacceptable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 19,347
    And the drone returns...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,432

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    It is a bold prediction, but I dont think much will happen. May will run down the clock and we will No Deal. It will be bad but not the rat eating zombie holocaust of our more exciteable press.
This discussion has been closed.