Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
Gove is an idiot for trying to ban wood burners. German car manufacturers can lie about their diesel emissions with impunity and freely pollute the atmosphere but wood burners which arm no one are to be banned. It’s fatuous. Still, I suppose it will provide a boost to his mates benefitting from the ROC’s in renewables projects.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
The U.K. is responsible for c 2% of world carbon dioxide emissions. Most of that 38% you are concerned about comes from wet logs, and coal, not kiln dried which most users burn. I see you are concerned though about breathing air polluted by German car manufacturers lying about diesel emissions.
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Gove is addressing a major source of particulates that is not currently being dealt with.
The one you're referring to is already being addressed by taxation on polluting cars, by government policy to phase out IC engines in cars, by VW being fined a bazillion pounds, and by processes and improved testing being put in place to make sure it can't happen again.
Such a shame the mayor of London decided to exempt diesel taxis from new clean air arrangements.
The bus lobbying firms seem to be doing a good job of preventing any pressure to switch to electric too.
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
It seems pretty reasonable for the Secretary of State for the Environment to think that the environment is paramount for his policies. After all, consumers use the environment too.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
ERG want TM to go back to Brussels and remove the backstop. However, that is a front for their actual position of wanting us to crash out, so even if she did get more change, they would come up with another reason against the deal. They are incredibly naive or just blind to the fact they represent less than 15% of the HOC and virtually nil in the HOL and no deal will be stopped
Gove is excellent in his current role and is addressing very serious issues affecting air quality which is especially dangerous to all our children and grand children
For at least some of the hard Leavers (*coughBoris*) it's more about their own political careers than anything else. Being able to scream "betrayal" is potentially advantageous for them
Boris isn’t a hard Leaver. He always wanted a Canada style FTA like Davis.
On what planet is that not a hard Brexit?
Where a hard Brexit is no deal.
I think that is the definition AA is working from, but that's never what was meant by Hard Brexit. Redefining these words has been a tactic from Leavers to control the conversation. Originally, Soft Brexit meant staying in things like the SM and CU, Hard Brexit meant leaving them, and No Deal was just called No Deal (or more pejoratively, Cliff-Edge Brexit or Car-Crash Brexit). Now Leavers are attempting to turn Soft Brexit into BINO or Not Really Brexit, Hard Brexit into Soft Brexit, and No Deal into Hard Brexit.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
ERG want TM to go back to Brussels and remove the backstop. However, that is a front for their actual position of wanting us to crash out, so even if she did get more change, they would come up with another reason against the deal. They are incredibly naive or just blind to the fact they represent less than 15% of the HOC and virtually nil in the HOL and no deal will be stopped
Gove is excellent in his current role and is addressing very serious issues affecting air quality which is especially dangerous to all our children and grand children
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
Gove is an idiot for trying to ban wood burners. German car manufacturers can lie about their diesel emissions with impunity and freely pollute the atmosphere but wood burners which arm no one are to be banned. It’s fatuous. Still, I suppose it will provide a boost to his mates benefitting from the ROC’s in renewables projects.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
The U.K. is responsible for c 2% of world carbon dioxide emissions. Most of that 38% you are concerned about comes from wet logs, and coal, not kiln dried which most users burn. I see you are concerned though about breathing air polluted by German car manufacturers lying about diesel emissions.
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Christ. You are truly a swivel-eyed fecking loon with attitudes like that.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
The U.K. is responsible for c 2% of world carbon dioxide emissions. Most of that 38% you are concerned about comes from wet logs, and coal, not kiln dried which most users burn. I see you are concerned though about breathing air polluted by German car manufacturers lying about diesel emissions.
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Gove is addressing a major source of particulates that is not currently being dealt with.
The one you're referring to is already being addressed by taxation on polluting cars, by government policy to phase out IC engines in cars, by VW being fined a bazillion pounds, and by processes and improved testing being put in place to make sure it can't happen again.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
ERG want TM to go back to Brussels and remove the backstop. However, that is a front for their actual position of wanting us to crash out, so even if she did get more change, they would come up with another reason against the deal. They are incredibly naive or just blind to the fact they represent less than 15% of the HOC and virtually nil in the HOL and no deal will be stopped
Gove is excellent in his current role and is addressing very serious issues affecting air quality which is especially dangerous to all our children and grand children
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
Gove is an idiot for trying to ban wood burners. German car manufacturers can lie about their diesel emissions with impunity and freely pollute the atmosphere but wood burners which arm no one are to be banned. It’s fatuous. Still, I suppose it will provide a boost to his mates benefitting from the ROC’s in renewables projects.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
The U.K. is responsible for c 2% of world carbon dioxide emissions. Most of that 38% you are concerned about comes from wet logs, and coal, not kiln dried which most users burn. I see you are concerned though about breathing air polluted by German car manufacturers lying about diesel emissions.
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Christ. You are truly a swivel-eyed fecking loon with attitudes like that.
Whatever little remained of his mask, has slipped.
Remember there is nothing stopping us revoking then reinvoking Article 50. The ‘no mischief’ clause was not part of the official ruling.
But it would start the two year clock again.....
Which would be very helpful. In the circumstances.
The circumstances being that the last 2 years were largely wasted. But resetting the clock doesn’t mean they haven’t happened. The EU thinks it has a deal. Why would they agree to start again?
Revocation means we aren’t leaving. It is dishonest to say anything else. May will almost certainly need to be replaced first but that is looking increasingly inevitable.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
ERG want TM to go back to Brussels and remove the backstop. However, that is a front for their actual position of wanting us to crash out, so even if she did get more change, they would come up with another reason against the deal. They are incredibly naive or just blind to the fact they represent less than 15% of the HOC and virtually nil in the HOL and no deal will be stopped
Gove is excellent in his current role and is addressing very serious issues affecting air quality which is especially dangerous to all our children and grand children
For at least some of the hard Leavers (*coughBoris*) it's more about their own political careers than anything else. Being able to scream "betrayal" is potentially advantageous for them
Boris isn’t a hard Leaver. He always wanted a Canada style FTA like Davis.
On what planet is that not a hard Brexit?
Where a hard Brexit is no deal.
I think that is the definition AA is working from, but that's never what was meant by Hard Brexit. Redefining these words has been a tactic from Leavers to control the conversation. Originally, Soft Brexit meant staying in things like the SM and CU, Hard Brexit meant leaving them, and No Deal was just called No Deal (or more pejoratively, Cliff-Edge Brexit or Car-Crash Brexit). Now Leavers are attempting to turn Soft Brexit into BINO or Not Really Brexit, Hard Brexit into Soft Brexit, and No Deal into Hard Brexit.
I don't think that's accurate whatsoever. May said very early on we were leaving SM and CU but the soft/hard divide continued it wasn't settled upon hard.
Nick Boles is going to get no-confidenced by his Association if he’s not careful. Putting forward a bill that would require Article 50 to be revoked unless a Remainer House of Commons agreed a Brexit solution is driving a coach and horses through British democracy.
A second referendum is one thing. I don’t think people putting forward this alternative have given it much thought at all.
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
It seems pretty reasonable for the Secretary of State for the Environment to think that the environment is paramount for his policies. After all, consumers use the environment too.
If it's him then it's conservatives for remain, rather than for a referendum. May really needs at least the pretence that a referendum is not desired just as a route to remain.
Realistically what it will be is a coalition formed of groups who each actually just want one of the options. Nobody wants a referendum
If it's him then it's conservatives for remain, rather than for a referendum. May really needs at least the pretence that a referendum is not desired just as a route to remain.
Realistically what it will be is a coalition formed of groups who each actually just want one of the options. Nobody wants a referendum for its own sake- as is true for pretty much every referendum. Pretending otherwise would look ludicrous.
If it clearly just a remainer ploy May might not be able to back it. There is a difference between we must ask the people and we must remain so let's get the people to do that.
As for looking ludicrous that's most of the people's vote campaign. Since they pretend it's about a final say but only because they think minds have changed.
What I'm saying is that it won't be just a remainer ploy because it will also be a May's Deal ploy. Her deal is dead, but it being voted for in a referendum would probably be sufficient defribulation to bring it back to life
See that Lazarus? Piece of cake. This, a bit trickier.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
The U.K. is responsible for c 2% of world carbon dioxide emissions. Most of that 38% you are concerned about comes from wet logs, and coal, not kiln dried which most users burn. I see you are concerned though about breathing air polluted by German car manufacturers lying about diesel emissions.
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Gove is addressing a major source of particulates that is not currently being dealt with.
The one you're referring to is already being addressed by taxation on polluting cars, by government policy to phase out IC engines in cars, by VW being fined a bazillion pounds, and by processes and improved testing being put in place to make sure it can't happen again.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
ERG want TM to go back to Brussels and remove the backstop. However, that is a front for their actual position of wanting us to crash out, so even if she did get more change, they would come up with another reason against the deal. They are incredibly naive or just blind to the fact they represent less than 15% of the HOC and virtually nil in the HOL and no deal will be stopped
Gove is excellent in his current role and is addressing very serious issues affecting air quality which is especially dangerous to all our children and grand children
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
Gove is an idiot for trying to ban wood burners. German car manufacturers can lie about their diesel emissions with impunity and freely pollute the atmosphere but wood burners which arm no one are to be banned. It’s fatuous. Still, I suppose it will provide a boost to his mates benefitting from the ROC’s in renewables projects.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Christ. You are truly a swivel-eyed fecking loon with attitudes like that.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
You can't find an actual criticism of the policy so instead you say, okay, it may be good, but what about all the hypothetical better things Gove could be doing instead. What a classic. I remember that one from the utterly spineless, snivelling opponents of gay marriage who weren't prepared to actually admit to their real position in 2013. It was just as transparently craven and intellectually dishonest then.
Nick Boles is going to get no-confidenced by his Association if he’s not careful. Putting forward a bill that would require Article 50 to be revoked unless a Remainer House of Commons agreed a Brexit solution is driving a coach and horses through British democracy.
A second referendum is one thing. I don’t think people putting forward this alternative have given it much thought at all.
1 - Something. Has. Changed. Feels like patience has run out, hence the defeats last week and refusing to kick the can down the road or delay any more. Maybe that was the message MPs got over Christmas - 'I just want it resolved one way or the other' rather than support / opposition to the specific deal. Hard to see T May getting away with promising to renegotiate after defeat now.
2 - I still think the real danger is the Benn amendment this week, and I would vote against it even though I agree with every word. If that passes, there is no yes/no vote on the meaningful vote, the Brexiteers get to keep their powder dry and blame the Remainers for the vote not passing. And the meaningful vote would be seen to be lost by 10 votes or so. Surely Hilary Benn is too smart to let that go to a vote - isn't he?
3 - What I really don't get, is the lack of urgency. Before Christmas we were told that the deal had to be agreed by November or December at the latest, so the UK could ratify, legislate as needed, and all EU approval processes could take place. Now there's talk of going right up against the end March deadline. Was the original timetable BS? Are we actually going to have to extend A50 even if the meaningful vote wins tomorrow? Grateful for any guidance on that - as it seems terms have totally changed on this.
I think that is the definition AA is working from, but that's never what was meant by Hard Brexit. Redefining these words has been a tactic from Leavers to control the conversation. Originally, Soft Brexit meant staying in things like the SM and CU, Hard Brexit meant leaving them, and No Deal was just called No Deal (or more pejoratively, Cliff-Edge Brexit or Car-Crash Brexit). Now Leavers are attempting to turn Soft Brexit into BINO or Not Really Brexit, Hard Brexit into Soft Brexit, and No Deal into Hard Brexit.
That is right. Language to deceive rather than to clarify. Ditto, to be fair, on the remainer side. Just how is a People's Vote not a 2nd referendum?
As far as I can see, a soft brexit (sticking with that meaning SM+CU) is the only form of brexit that is possible if one accepts that the following are political imperatives, (i) no border in Ireland and (ii) no border in the Irish Sea.
All that the Backstop does, regarding (i), is to render such a border not only politically impossible but legally impossible. If we accept the first - and everybody at least pretends to - then I cannot see the big deal about accepting the second.
"“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.
“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship."
But was that second referendum proposal after the first one had already been implemented.
No one suggests you can't reverse a referendum after it has been implemented as indeed the 2016 referendum is to reverse what was confirmed by the 1975 referendum.
Still don't see the logic in Mrs M trumpeting Parliaments support for Scottish and Welsh devolution after endorsement in a referendum, when she voted against herself?
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
The U.K. is responsible for c 2% of world carbon dioxide emissions. Most of that 38% you are concerned about comes from wet logs, and coal, not kiln dried which most users burn. I see you are concerned though about breathing air polluted by German car manufacturers lying about diesel emissions.
I am concerned about anything that makes or contributes to toxic air quality for my grand children
Which is very reasonable but begs the question why you are not more concerned about Gove’s misguided priorities. Primacy of consumer interests should be paramount.
Gove is addressing a major source of particulates that is not currently being dealt with.
.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Electric cars are very few and far between and LPG powered cars even fewer. The desire to reduce maintenance costs is as much a driver as concerns about emissions.
Grieve and Boles are getting plenty of air time on their plans but not a word from the ERG about what they’ll do when May loses her deal. I wonder if they have given it any thought. Sadly, I suspect the answer is probably not given how they were too idle to come up with an alternative plan at any stage during the last 2 years.
Gove seems to have given up on Brexit too and is now preoccupied with pedantry - banning the sale of coal and word for domestic heating. It’s pathetic.
ERG want TM to go back to Brussels and remove the backstop. However, that is a front for their actual position of wanting us to crash out, so even if she did get more change, they would come up with another reason against the deal. They are incredibly naive or just blind to the fact they represent less than 15% of the HOC and virtually nil in the HOL and no deal will be stopped
Gove is excellent in his current role and is addressing very serious issues affecting air quality which is especially dangerous to all our children and grand children
If that is true, it’s intellectually lazy because securing the backstop has been the central focus of the EU negotiations for the last 2 years.
Gove is an idiot for trying to ban wood burners. German car manufacturers can lie about their diesel emissions with impunity and freely pollute the atmosphere but wood burners which arm no one are to be banned. It’s fatuous. Still, I suppose it will provide a boost to his mates benefitting from the ROC’s in renewables projects.
With respect you obviously do not know that wood burners and fires account for upto 38% of damaging particulate matter in the UK. Sadiq Khan and other councils have already asked for powers to curtail them due to their effect on air quality and the unseen damage they contribute to
Gove isn't banning burners. He is introducing rules that mean only the more efficiently burning ones can be sold from 2022.
Wet wood may be banned from sale (there is a consultation). So only seasoned can be sold. Not sure why anyone knows what they are doing with a fire would be burning wet wood anyway.
Gove's head seems to consist of wet wood, the man is an imbecile.
"“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.
“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship."
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
You can't find an actual criticism of the policy so instead you say, okay, it may be good, but what about all the hypothetical better things Gove could be doing instead. What a classic. I remember that one from the utterly spineless, snivelling opponents of gay marriage who weren't prepared to actually admit to their real position in 2013. It was just as transparently craven and intellectually dishonest then.
To be fair, AmpfieldAndy is correct that VW wasn't fined in Europe, which is as he says in marked contrast to the US. The Commission found it didn't have the power to do so. They have now:
"“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.
“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship."
Yeah right. If that was the case they could resolve a lot of upset by removing it.
A wonderful example of the 'anything the EU does must by definition be evil' mindset.
Not at all.
I'm saying what the EU does here is what they want to do.
You wish away the backstop by pretending it is unimportant and not what the EU wants.
I see how the EU have fought vigorously for this, jeopardised the entire deal to ensure they get it and spent the last 18 months dominated on this.
Reality unlike your pretence is the EU have shown they want the backstop by their deeds.
It allows them to have whip hand on the trade deal, they just play backstop card every time the UK ask for something.
Precisely. How could anyone miss that?
Previously I would have said impossible but having seen and heard the donkeys over the last two years I can understand. It is sheer stupidity or self interest/lying or combination of all.
"“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.
“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship."
Far from their best work.
the bar's pretty high - even an off day constitutes an excellent piece.
Doesn't fit into the shouty/left wing/R4 6.30 "comedy" slot, that said, I do appreciate.
Nick Boles is going to get no-confidenced by his Association if he’s not careful. Putting forward a bill that would require Article 50 to be revoked unless a Remainer House of Commons agreed a Brexit solution is driving a coach and horses through British democracy.
A second referendum is one thing. I don’t think people putting forward this alternative have given it much thought at all.
Well, in fairness, that hardly makes them unique.
I think at this point our choice is about how much damage we wish to sustain to our political system and our economy.
90% of our MPs should resign. They are not up to the task.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Electric cars are very few and far between and LPG powered cars even fewer. The desire to reduce maintenance costs is as much a driver as concerns about emissions.
LPG is a dead end. I don't think anyone is pushing that anymore.
Electric cars may be few now but the technology is still nascent and expensive. It isn't that long ago that digital TVs were few and far between and only relatively few years later there were no more analogue TVs.
We are already on a path that within the next decade electric will overtake the internal combustion engine for new vehicles. Will not take much more than a decade before the sale of the internal combustion engine in new vehicles will be outlawed.
The legal backdrop for that has been set already now the market is doing what it does best. It makes perfect sense for the Secretary of State for the Environment to concentrate on other environmental issues while the companies concerned develop the necessary technologies.
I agree with that. The 2005 policy to scrap the assembly is not hypocritical and entirely in keeping with a campaign to rejoin the EU after we have left.
However, May (along with the Brexit crew et al.) voted against the Scottish Parliament after it had be passed by referendum with a 74% yes vote. That is rank hypocrisy of the worst sort now.
To be fair they voted against the referendum. Many of those wanting no Brexit now voted for the referendum.
It's hilarious. What they are saying is "Scottish/Welsh bigoted Nationalism BAD. English/British Nationalism GOOD". It is a perfect symmetry with their ideological cousins north of the border!
About as valid or not as a ConHome survey, this survey by LabourList (a non-factional blog, often mildly critical of Corbyn but not vitriolic like RedRoar) shows what its readers currently think about the last decade:
TSE will be pleased to see that 1.3% think that the most thrilling moment in the last 10 years was the AV referendum. What exciting lives they must lead, eh?
I don't think he was on anyone's lists. That is a pretty poor sign for Theresa May.
When whips start to resign you know you have a major problem.
Ouch, that is really bad news.
Suggests the Govt are going to lose several more to resignation today.
Definitely looking like closer to 200 than 150 At the least.
Though I do wonder how a whip has really given their job their all in the past few months while being against the signature policy of government which has had many ancillary votes on it.
I don't think he was on anyone's lists. That is a pretty poor sign for Theresa May.
When whips start to resign you know you have a major problem.
Ouch, that is really bad news.
Suggests the Govt are going to lose several more to resignation today.
Definitely looking like closer to 200 than 150 At the least.
Though I do wonder how a whip has really given their job their all in the past few months while being against the signature policy of government which has had many ancillary votes on it.
It is weird but early on people spoke of 50+ being the threshold for how bearable the rebellion was.
Now anything just over 100 would seem like a success.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Electric cars are very few and far between and LPG powered cars even fewer. The desire to reduce maintenance costs is as much a driver as concerns about emissions.
LPG is a dead end. I don't think anyone is pushing that anymore.
Electric cars may be few now but the technology is still nascent and expensive. It isn't that long ago that digital TVs were few and far between and only relatively few years later there were no more analogue TVs.
We are already on a path that within the next decade electric will overtake the internal combustion engine for new vehicles. Will not take much more than a decade before the sale of the internal combustion engine in new vehicles will be outlawed.
The legal backdrop for that has been set already now the market is doing what it does best. It makes perfect sense for the Secretary of State for the Environment to concentrate on other environmental issues while the companies concerned develop the necessary technologies.
He seems remarkably blasé to air quality pollution from diesel trains because of lack of electrification, buses, planes which are all much bigger pollutants than wood burners. He has misguided priorities and has gone after something that will earn him cheap headlines - in my view.
"“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.
“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship."
Far from their best work.
That site has had a complete sense of humour failure when it comes to Brexit. It’s a shame when you consider the sheer volume of material they have to work with.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Electric cars are very few and far between and LPG powered cars even fewer. The desire to reduce maintenance costs is as much a driver as concerns about emissions.
LPG is a dead end. I don't think anyone is pushing that anymore.
Electric cars may be few now but the technology is still nascent and expensive. It isn't that long ago that digital TVs were few and far between and only relatively few years later there were no more analogue TVs.
We are already on a path that within the next decade electric will overtake the internal combustion engine for new vehicles. Will not take much more than a decade before the sale of the internal combustion engine in new vehicles will be outlawed.
The legal backdrop for that has been set already now the market is doing what it does best. It makes perfect sense for the Secretary of State for the Environment to concentrate on other environmental issues while the companies concerned develop the necessary technologies.
He seems remarkably blasé to air quality pollution from diesel trains because of lack of electrification, buses, planes which are all much bigger pollutants than wood burners. He has misguided priorities and has gone after something that will earn him cheap headlines.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Electric cars are very few and far between and LPG powered cars even fewer. The desire to reduce maintenance costs is as much a driver as concerns about emissions.
LPG is a dead end. I don't think anyone is pushing that anymore.
Electric cars may be few now but the technology is still nascent and expensive. It isn't that long ago that digital TVs were few and far between and only relatively few years later there were no more analogue TVs.
We are already on a path that within the next decade electric will overtake the internal combustion engine for new vehicles. Will not take much more than a decade before the sale of the internal combustion engine in new vehicles will be outlawed.
The legal backdrop for that has been set already now the market is doing what it does best. It makes perfect sense for the Secretary of State for the Environment to concentrate on other environmental issues while the companies concerned develop the necessary technologies.
He seems remarkably blasé to air quality pollution from diesel trains because of lack of electrification, buses, planes which are all much bigger pollutants than wood burners. He has misguided priorities and has gone after something that will earn him cheap headlines.
I think you need to look at who occupies the MoT.
You mean joined up government ? Wouldn’t that be a change.
I don't think he was on anyone's lists. That is a pretty poor sign for Theresa May.
When whips start to resign you know you have a major problem.
Ouch, that is really bad news.
Suggests the Govt are going to lose several more to resignation today.
Definitely looking like closer to 200 than 150 At the least.
Though I do wonder how a whip has really given their job their all in the past few months while being against the signature policy of government which has had many ancillary votes on it.
Lots of possibilities. Might have thought that:
- The vote might have been pulled again - The EU would move - The parliamentary arithmetic might have changed, e.g. with Labour supporting or abstaining.
Also might also have had pressure from his constituency which is now difficult to resist.
Do you have a source for VW being fined ? As far as I am aware, the Gov has done nothing - unlike the US which takes this kind of think seriously.
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
That is already being done and has been for decades.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
Electric cars are very few and far between and LPG powered cars even fewer. The desire to reduce maintenance costs is as much a driver as concerns about emissions.
LPG is a dead end. I don't think anyone is pushing that anymore.
Electric cars may be few now but the technology is still nascent and expensive. It isn't that long ago that digital TVs were few and far between and only relatively few years later there were no more analogue TVs.
We are already on a path that within the next decade electric will overtake the internal combustion engine for new vehicles. Will not take much more than a decade before the sale of the internal combustion engine in new vehicles will be outlawed.
The legal backdrop for that has been set already now the market is doing what it does best. It makes perfect sense for the Secretary of State for the Environment to concentrate on other environmental issues while the companies concerned develop the necessary technologies.
He seems remarkably blasé to air quality pollution from diesel trains because of lack of electrification, buses, planes which are all much bigger pollutants than wood burners. He has misguided priorities and has gone after something that will earn him cheap headlines - in my view.
Just your usual erse, he is only interested in self promotion.
Comments
LOL.
Quite a lot of crossover with the Brexiteers!
LOL!
The bus lobbying firms seem to be doing a good job of preventing any pressure to switch to electric too.
Marvelous quote. Seems, somehow, applicable right now in some way.
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1084783588707586049?s=19
If you want air that is fit to breathe tackling car and plane pollution is far more important. Taxation is not tackling pollution; just makes it more expensive. Gove’s priorities are totally misguided.
Revocation means we aren’t leaving. It is dishonest to say anything else. May will almost certainly need to be replaced first but that is looking increasingly inevitable.
A second referendum is one thing. I don’t think people putting forward this alternative have given it much thought at all.
Taxation is a key part in eliminating it. It has helped drive the technological reforms that are leading to the obsolescence of the internal combustion engine.
1 - Something. Has. Changed. Feels like patience has run out, hence the defeats last week and refusing to kick the can down the road or delay any more. Maybe that was the message MPs got over Christmas - 'I just want it resolved one way or the other' rather than support / opposition to the specific deal. Hard to see T May getting away with promising to renegotiate after defeat now.
2 - I still think the real danger is the Benn amendment this week, and I would vote against it even though I agree with every word. If that passes, there is no yes/no vote on the meaningful vote, the Brexiteers get to keep their powder dry and blame the Remainers for the vote not passing. And the meaningful vote would be seen to be lost by 10 votes or so. Surely Hilary Benn is too smart to let that go to a vote - isn't he?
3 - What I really don't get, is the lack of urgency. Before Christmas we were told that the deal had to be agreed by November or December at the latest, so the UK could ratify, legislate as needed, and all EU approval processes could take place. Now there's talk of going right up against the end March deadline. Was the original timetable BS? Are we actually going to have to extend A50 even if the meaningful vote wins tomorrow? Grateful for any guidance on that - as it seems terms have totally changed on this.
As far as I can see, a soft brexit (sticking with that meaning SM+CU) is the only form of brexit that is possible if one accepts that the following are political imperatives, (i) no border in Ireland and (ii) no border in the Irish Sea.
All that the Backstop does, regarding (i), is to render such a border not only politically impossible but legally impossible. If we accept the first - and everybody at least pretends to - then I cannot see the big deal about accepting the second.
https://thedailymash.co.uk/politics/everyone-dying-to-ask-left-wing-brexiter-what-fking-planet-hes-on-20190111181236
"“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.
“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship."
Suggests the Govt are going to lose several more to resignation today.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/europe-bolsters-regulatory-clout-over-carmakers-after-vw-scandal
Doesn't fit into the shouty/left wing/R4 6.30 "comedy" slot, that said, I do appreciate.
90% of our MPs should resign. They are not up to the task.
Electric cars may be few now but the technology is still nascent and expensive. It isn't that long ago that digital TVs were few and far between and only relatively few years later there were no more analogue TVs.
We are already on a path that within the next decade electric will overtake the internal combustion engine for new vehicles. Will not take much more than a decade before the sale of the internal combustion engine in new vehicles will be outlawed.
The legal backdrop for that has been set already now the market is doing what it does best. It makes perfect sense for the Secretary of State for the Environment to concentrate on other environmental issues while the companies concerned develop the necessary technologies.
https://labourlist.org/2019/01/best-labour-leader-of-last-decade-corbyn-say-59-of-labourlist-readers/
TSE will be pleased to see that 1.3% think that the most thrilling moment in the last 10 years was the AV referendum. What exciting lives they must lead, eh?
Though I do wonder how a whip has really given their job their all in the past few months while being against the signature policy of government which has had many ancillary votes on it.
Now anything just over 100 would seem like a success.
- The vote might have been pulled again
- The EU would move
- The parliamentary arithmetic might have changed, e.g. with Labour supporting or abstaining.
Also might also have had pressure from his constituency which is now difficult to resist.