Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whatever you think of Bercow it is right that the executive ha

123457»

Comments

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234


    Question is: what do they do once all the other options have left the table and only Deal and No Deal remain?

    Rub their hands with glee. May driving the UK over the cliff edge by accident and economic chaos? That's a dream outcome.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    So we're 70 odd days from when we're be able to torch the houses of Leavers for getting the UK into this mess.

    So glad I'm not in the UK on Brexit day.

    Me neither, I'll be in Shimla drinking tea.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    That would effectively require a split of both parties to create 2 new parties. A good outcome, but highly unlikely.
    Yes, split in the Commons. They should go for it.
    It's very easy playing with other people's jobs. It's a bit harder when it's your own on the line.
    Thank you for the sanctimony, David!

    I think it would do wonders for their careers actually – national heroes they would be and incredibly employable outside politics (in the real world) if not within the party machines.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    We've all known white men like Geoffrey Cox. Who believe that simply saying everything in a BIG THEATRICAL VOICE is all you need, doesn't matter if the content is utter bollocks.

    Basically all he does is pointing and shouting.

    Wind your neck in Jeff mate, this act isn't fooling any fucker.

    What has his race got to do with anything?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Churchill crossed the floor multiple times and it did not affect his career. Big risk for big reward?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    We've all known white men like Geoffrey Cox. Who believe that simply saying everything in a BIG THEATRICAL VOICE is all you need, doesn't matter if the content is utter bollocks.

    Brain Blessed made a career out of that and is a national treasure I'll have you know...
    Brian Blessed for PM?
    https://twitter.com/reporterboy/status/1085167233205182466

    I didn't realize Brian Blessed was 82.
    And one of a handful of true National Tresures. Cherish him while you can.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Here was how I tallied the uncommitted Conservative MPs yesterday:

    Adam Afriyie Windsor
    Bob Blackman Harrow East
    Graham Brady Altrincham and Sale West
    Jack Brereton Stoke-on-Trent South
    Kevin Foster Torbay
    Greg Hands Chelsea and Fulham
    Eddie Hughes Walsall North
    Ian Liddell-Grainger Bridgwater and West Somerset
    Jonathan Lord Woking
    Alan Mak Havant
    Daniel Poulter Central Suffolk and North Ipswich
    Tom Pursglove Corby
    Keith Simpson Broadland
    Julian Sturdy York Outer

    Adam Afriyie, Bob Blackman, Graham Brady, Jack Brereton, Ian Liddell-Grainger and Julian Sturdy all backed the Murrison amendment. Presumably they will all now vote against the deal. Greg Hands has already announced that he is voting against the deal. I'd be surprised if Theresa May picks up more than two or three of the others.

    That would mean something like 124 Conservative MPs would be voting against the deal (note, more than half of all backbenchers). That gives Theresa May 193 loyal Conservative MPs, and I think she'll stagger over the 200 mark with dissident Labour MPs inside and outside the Labour party.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.

    Still, it would be an interesting exercise to see if there were enough sane MPs to reach 350-360 or so – if so, such a government would command a thumping majority.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.

    A gnu is the way forward!
    On this occasion it really would be the strangest blooming animal in the zoo.
    It would be a darned sight less strange that the freak show of weirdos, crackpots, and whack-jobs that currently compose the frontbenches.
    and less ugly than many of them
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    Indeed. Once you break the parties, you can't then put them back together...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    I seem to recall people defending Bercow previously by saying he was enabling the will of the house. If so, on what grounds can he not select any amendment as who knows if the house would approve? Could it possibly be that the Bercow defenders were in overcompensate mode to match their counterparts attacking Bercow?
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398

    So we're 70 odd days from when we're be able to torch the houses of Leavers for getting the UK into this mess.

    So glad I'm not in the UK on Brexit day.

    I thought there was a 77% chance or whatever it was on betfair that we won't be leaving on 29th March so you could be confounded.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    NPXMP called it a long time ago as up to six would vote for the deal. I see no reason to think that is underestimating the number.
    As an aside, I think that the challenge to Corbyn's leadership has made it much harder for centrist MPs to peel off. They said we don't have confidence in him, the membership said well, tough, we do. That makes it hard for centrists to claim (on second referendum tactics, for instance) they're really following what ordinary members want, whereas if they'd never had the challenge it'd be easier.There are limits to this - clearly most members do want a second referendum - but they're generally willing to let the leadership decide on sequencing and timing.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    RoyalBlue said:

    We've all known white men like Geoffrey Cox. Who believe that simply saying everything in a BIG THEATRICAL VOICE is all you need, doesn't matter if the content is utter bollocks.

    Basically all he does is pointing and shouting.

    Wind your neck in Jeff mate, this act isn't fooling any fucker.

    What has his race got to do with anything?
    It's the combination of his race and sex that grants him the absolute certainty of his own right to be listened to by anyone else, and all he has to do is BE LOUD.
  • Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    A very good question, but unusual times require unusual solutions. It would be interesting to know how the wartime coalition did it. (sorry for mentioning the war - and I'm not even a brexiteer)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837
    edited January 2019

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    Tbf though, the current government has no idea what to do about (a). The opposition about (b).
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    A very good question, but unusual times require unusual solutions. It would be interesting to know how the wartime coalition did it. (sorry for mentioning the war - and I'm not even a brexiteer)
    Amateur. If you want to go all WW2, this is how you do it:

    https://twitter.com/uk_gregwilson/status/1084106675676692481
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    On (a), probably follow the example of the current government and prioritise doing Not Much.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    We've all known white men like Geoffrey Cox. Who believe that simply saying everything in a BIG THEATRICAL VOICE is all you need, doesn't matter if the content is utter bollocks.

    Basically all he does is pointing and shouting.

    Wind your neck in Jeff mate, this act isn't fooling any fucker.

    What has his race got to do with anything?
    It's the combination of his race and sex that grants him the absolute certainty of his own right to be listened to by anyone else, and all he has to do is BE LOUD.
    Is Diane Abbott not loud then?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    The Speaker's job is to select which amendments are in order, effective and likely to command the support of the house. Most of the amendments were wrecking amendments, and wrecking amendments are never in order.

    As for the Swire and Murrison amendments, they were both ineffective, as they tried to bind the EU to act in a certain way (which Parliament cannot do) or to attempt to redraft the WA to say something it does not (which directly contradicts the government's legal obligations and would therefore be unconscionable to do).

    The Mann amendment was not selected due to lack of support in the house. After Labour, the ERG and the DUP all declined to support it, it would have been futile to put it to the house.

    Once again, if the House finds fault with the way the Speaker selects amendments, they are welcome to move an early day motion and resolve that the house has no confidence in him and a new speaker would be elected.

    But I think we all know the House would resolve it still very much has confidence in the Speaker.

    Nice authoritative summary. Is it correct that you're actually a former Tory council candidate? You read like someone with pretty close Parliamentary knowledge. Could be both, of course.
  • So we're 70 odd days from when we're be able to torch the houses of Leavers for getting the UK into this mess.

    .

    TSE espouses terrorism!
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    We've all known white men like Geoffrey Cox. Who believe that simply saying everything in a BIG THEATRICAL VOICE is all you need, doesn't matter if the content is utter bollocks.

    Basically all he does is pointing and shouting.

    Wind your neck in Jeff mate, this act isn't fooling any fucker.

    What has his race got to do with anything?
    It's the combination of his race and sex that grants him the absolute certainty of his own right to be listened to by anyone else, and all he has to do is BE LOUD.
    Lol. Perhaps you should put down your copy of the Guardian and realise that maybe, just maybe, men (and women!) have been raising their voices for thousands of years to ensure that they are heard.

    This pernicious requirement to insert race into every aspect of public discourse, even when totally irrelevant, is the just latest dismal import from the USA. It’s almost as bad as the NFL.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234


    Nice authoritative summary. Is it correct that you're actually a former Tory council candidate? You read like someone with pretty close Parliamentary knowledge. Could be both, of course.

    I don't like to talk about that era of my life.

    But I'm not a parliamentary expert, just a nerd. :)
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    dixiedean said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    Tbf though, the current government has no idea what to do about (a). The opposition about (b).
    Yes, even without further inquest it's a better solution simply because it cannot possibly do worse on these matters than the utter shambles we currently have
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    kle4 said:

    I seem to recall people defending Bercow previously by saying he was enabling the will of the house. If so, on what grounds can he not select any amendment as who knows if the house would approve? Could it possibly be that the Bercow defenders were in overcompensate mode to match their counterparts attacking Bercow?

    There are quite a lot of rules about selection of amendments which he couldn’t override without some (possibly spurious) justification - for example prohibiting wrecking amendments in many cases, which if passed have the same effect as simply voting against the bill. It’s also common to weed out amendments with similar effect to one another, and those which have no real effect. Conventionally government amendments posing as backbench are sometimes rejected on the basis that the government is free to offer them during the debate if it wants though I’m less clear on how the distinction is drawn.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    NPXMP called it a long time ago as up to six would vote for the deal. I see no reason to think that is underestimating the number.
    For now, yes.

    Question is: what do they do once all the other options have left the table and only Deal and No Deal remain?
    Why do you think the "Extending Article 50" option will leave the table?
  • Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    A very good question, but unusual times require unusual solutions. It would be interesting to know how the wartime coalition did it. (sorry for mentioning the war - and I'm not even a brexiteer)
    Amateur. If you want to go all WW2, this is how you do it:

    https://twitter.com/uk_gregwilson/status/1084106675676692481
    Oh dear, and they wonder why we think they are so fucking stupid. I blame war comics. Some of these idiots clearly read too many of them - simplistic stories, short phrases, all rolled up in nationalism. A bit like a UKIP manifesto.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Polruan said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    On (a), probably follow the example of the current government and prioritise doing Not Much.

    Which would be okay. I said yesterday that one of the very few good things about Brexit is that it stops the government doing much. Governments are generally hyperactive, faffing about and fiddling, causing confusion for not much reason.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    A very good question, but unusual times require unusual solutions. It would be interesting to know how the wartime coalition did it. (sorry for mentioning the war - and I'm not even a brexiteer)
    Amateur. If you want to go all WW2, this is how you do it:

    https://twitter.com/uk_gregwilson/status/1084106675676692481
    Godwin of the Year award won conclusively on 15 Jan.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    This thread is old news!
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Anazina said:



    Godwin of the Year award won conclusively on 15 Jan.

    The best thing about voting for Hitler is that he never asked you to vote again.

  • NEW THREAD

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263



    A very good question, but unusual times require unusual solutions. It would be interesting to know how the wartime coalition did it. (sorry for mentioning the war - and I'm not even a brexiteer)

    Yes, there ought to be a book about that, but I'm not sure there is. It would make a very good PhD topic. My vague impression is that Churchill left home affairs pretty much to Attlee insofar as they didn't affect the war effort.

    At present, we have a GND (Government of National Disunity), with daily updates on how they disagree with each other. One can argue that this is a fine representation of disarray in the wider public.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.

    I agree. GNU for No Brexit is for the birds. JC blocks it.

    For me, given the genuine terrors, genuinely held, about No Deal, the most likely outcome is that the Withdrawal Treaty is ratified at some point before 29th March.

    Hence a big betting opportunity this evening if, in the immediate aftermath of a massive defeat in the MV, the odds of that lurch out to something silly.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    That would effectively require a split of both parties to create 2 new parties. A good outcome, but highly unlikely.
    Yes, split in the Commons. They should go for it.
    It's very easy playing with other people's jobs. It's a bit harder when it's your own on the line.
    Sadly, too true. It is a very good argument for members of the legislature having a limitation on the number of times they can stand. That would have put pay to Mr Thicky ever having become Labour leader
    Nope, proper selection and election processes can see to that, though it's still quite possible for bad candidates to become MPs for the wrong reasons.

    But if an electorate wants someone to represent them, there shouldn't be any barriers in the way that don't apply generally (e.g. minimum age). Term limits are a bad idea in general and for particularly bad for legislatures (as opposed to executives) in particular.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Lucy Powell's proposal to reach across the house is sensible actually - better than no deal or no Brexit nonsense perpetuated by plenty of others.

    With the DUP and ERG's wishes clearly incompatible to an agreement with the EU it is an avenue worth persuing.

    How many Labour backbenchers can she bring along ?

    10 maybe. Labour want a general election. They don't want to reach agreement with the government.
    The professional commentariat have been STUNNED to find this large group of Labour MPs they promised would be willing to commit career suicide to rush to the defence of a doomed Tory prime has utterly failed to materialise.

    Tells you all you need to know about how little the professional commentariat understand about anything.
    Nobody is proposing propping up May – she is now done as she herself no doubt knows.

    A cross-party GNU would do the trick, without either the hopeless May or the useless Corbyn as leader. A Tory moderate might fit the bill – perhaps Grieve with several Labour higher-ups in the cabinet.
    Wish a GNU would happen, but while Corbyn is Labour/Momentum leader it will not happen, unless a coalition of the willing can be found from enough MPs on both sides that are willing to risk deselection. Ken Clark has the balls, but who else? I don't think there is the arithmetic that would make it work.
    Forget the numbers, what would a GNU actually do about (a) everything that is not Brexit, and (b) Brexit? Especially (a).
    A very good question, but unusual times require unusual solutions. It would be interesting to know how the wartime coalition did it. (sorry for mentioning the war - and I'm not even a brexiteer)
    Amateur. If you want to go all WW2, this is how you do it:

    https://twitter.com/uk_gregwilson/status/1084106675676692481
    Oh dear, and they wonder why we think they are so fucking stupid. I blame war comics. Some of these idiots clearly read too many of them - simplistic stories, short phrases, all rolled up in nationalism. A bit like a UKIP manifesto.
    Well you voted for the UKIP light and strong manifesto when you voted for Hague and Howard,funny that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Scott_P said:
    Dear Dear , unionists cannot help themselves lying, Herald really is full of sad sacks

    Former SNP MP cleared of dishonesty over law firm trust fund case
    FORMER SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh has been cleared of any dishonesty or impropriety in the case of a trust fund operated by her former law firm Hamilton Burns of Glasgow.
    The firm went bust with debts of £500,000 in 2017, two years after Ahmed-Sheikh resigned from it on becoming one of the 56 SNP MPs returned to the House of Commons in the 2015 general election.

    National columnist Ahmed-Sheikh was due to attend a four or five-day hearing of the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal in Perth yesterday after the Law Society of Scotland took out what is technically called a prosecution against her and former business partner Niall Mickel over events prior to her resignation.

    The Law Society alleged professional misconduct on the part of both Mickel and Ahmed-Sheikh, mainly on grounds of failing to follow proper accounting procedures in the administration of a Mickel family trust.

    The first day of the hearing saw a dramatic turn of events, however, when it was revealed at the outset that the Law Society and legal representatives of the two solicitors had agreed a joint minute clearing both lawyers of any dishonesty or impropriety.

    They have accepted that they did not treat the trust as a client which would have involved different accounting procedures, but both solicitors believed they did not have to do so.

    Newspaper reports in the run up to her unsuccessful election campaign in Ochil and South Perthshire in the 2017 general election suggested that Ahmed-Sheikh was being investigated for financial impropriety, but the tribunal heard yesterday that there had been none.

    Nor was there any dishonesty on the part of Ahmed-Sheikh and Mickel, and nor did either of them gain anything, while the trust fund itself suffered no loss and indeed made money when interest was paid into it.

    Furthermore the Law Society’s lawyer at the hearing, Grant Knight, stated that their belief that the trust fund was not a client of the firm was “erroneous but genuinely held.”

This discussion has been closed.