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  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Freggles said:

    Meanwhile, it's worth noting that for Marks & Spencer, Leave means leave:

    https://twitter.com/johannketel/status/1085176207052890113

    M&S confirms no Deal.
    Bravo.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    My house doesn't actually have a number, checked the deeds.


  • You are possessed with this. I respect Ken Clarke but did not hear his comments

    The simple fact is A50 can only be revoked through the UK consitutional process

    It cannot be used as a ruse and to re-invoke has to be in a manner that would pass an ECJ ruling

    Let's say May says time is up and her final act of PM is revoking her Article 50. Parliament authorises it. Would that be valid?

    Then let's say we have a leadership election. The winner wins on a platform of fulfilling Brexit with a more specific agenda than Brexit means Brexit. Parliament authorises invoking Article 50 again. Would that be valid?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    Plus making it compulsory to have the "tradesmen" buzzer work always to gain entry to blocks of flats.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Very true and for similar reasons. They are indeed an evil menace which have been left unregulated for far too long.
    While we're at it, can we ban letterboxes at any level with a vicious fucking spring mechanism? Invariably, they are made of razor-sharp brass....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Pulpstar said:

    That'll probably be Lucy Powell against the deal too then from the Labour side.
    And if Powell is against then Stephen Kinnock likely will be too.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    UKIP making the jump to full fascist:

    image
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    There are no numbers anywhere in my village.
  • Meanwhile, it's worth noting that for Marks & Spencer, Leave means leave:

    twitter.com/johannketel/status/1085176207052890113

    Yawn....not everything is Brexit.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.

    Hopkins is a homeopathist, a mate of Corbyn’s, a Leave Means Leaver, and an (alleged) sex pest.

    The South Midlands really do have the worst MPs.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    I find it hard to understand why someone who is neither an ERG type, nor a hardcore Remainer, would want to vote against.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    I like the way people are talking like an 80 vote defeat is a victory. What comes next? Redefining black as white? Wet as dry?

    A defeat of 80 is still a defeat. And a big one.

    If you consider that Sky are forecasting a defeat of around 225 then anything below 150 will very much enable May to continue talks with the EU and return again with an updated deal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Very true and for similar reasons. They are indeed an evil menace which have been left unregulated for far too long.
    Yes. But what about the letterboxes?

    I'll get my coat
    I have to say that I increasingly believe that leafletting is a displacement activity to convince enthusiasts that they are actually taking part. I really can't believe it changes any votes at all unless there is a very, very specific local issue that people feel strongly about.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited January 2019

    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    There are no numbers anywhere in my village.
    Then we must send a man from Whitehall to number them.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.

    Thanks, that's very helpful.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited January 2019

    Frank Field says he will support the deal. Surprised at that.

    He was in my "expected" category to vote for the deal. I haven't yet seen what Kelvin Hopkins is planning.

    John Woodcock is against, which surprised me a bit.

    Woodcock is anti Corbyn but also anti Brexit*. He will vote against Corbyn and Brexit, the tricky bit might be if those things crossover.

    IMO and based on probability, nothing certain of course.

    Edit: *Not sure to what extent
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    My pet hate is security panels on closes with letter boxes for the flats on the inside. Bah!
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234



    There are no numbers anywhere in my village.

    Take the pathway past the steaming bog, left at the abandoned primary school that exudes an air of menace, keep going past the bare-chested old ladies smearing themselves in dung, and then right at Sainsbury's. You can't miss it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    FPT


    Tom Gordon @HTScotPol

    Former SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh found guilty of professional misconduct https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17359087.former-snp-mp-tasmina-ahmed-sheikh-found-guilty-of-professional-misconduct/?ref=twtrec
    16
    Usual misreading of the actual result by the almost bankrupt unionist mouthpiece , The floundering Herald

    Both cleared of any impropriety or dishonesty.

    Reality
    National columnist Ahmed-Sheikh was due to attend a four or five-day hearing of the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal in Perth yesterday after the Law Society of Scotland took out what is technically called a prosecution against her and former business partner Niall Mickel over events prior to her resignation.

    The Law Society alleged professional misconduct on the part of both Mickel and Ahmed-Sheikh, mainly on grounds of failing to follow proper accounting procedures in the administration of a Mickel family trust.

    The first day of the hearing saw a dramatic turn of events, however, when it was revealed at the outset that the Law Society and legal representatives of the two solicitors had agreed a joint minute clearing both lawyers of any dishonesty or impropriety.

    They have accepted that they did not treat the trust as a client which would have involved different accounting procedures, but both solicitors believed they did not have to do so.

    Newspaper reports in the run up to her unsuccessful election campaign in Ochil and South Perthshire in the 2017 general election suggested that Ahmed-Sheikh was being investigated for financial impropriety, but the tribunal heard yesterday that there had been none.

    Nor was there any dishonesty on the part of Ahmed-Sheikh and Mickel, and nor did either of them gain anything, while the trust fund itself suffered no loss and indeed made money when interest was paid into it.

    Furthermore the Law Society’s lawyer at the hearing, Grant Knight, stated that their belief that the trust fund was not a client of the firm was “erroneous but genuinely held.”

    Knight told the hearing that significant sums had been loaned by the trust to Hamilton Burns which was struggling to cope in the period under review.

    Mickel had set up the trust for his sister Jill in 2012 and part of the problem was that the trust remained known on the firm’s ledger as the Jill Mickel Trust when it should have been named the Alan Niall Macpherson Mickel Trust.

    Knight said there was no evidence that the trust had been set up to lend money and that Mickel accepted that he should have taken steps to ensure proper accounting procedures.

    Lawyer William Macreath for Mickel argued that the genuine belief that the trust was not a client did not meet the threshold for a finding of professional misconduct. He also said that his client and his family had suffered from the effects of the publicity surrounding the case.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Use a wooden spoon to poke them through. Bit of luck, you'll choke the litte yappy sod too.....
    Is that referring to private members bills and the Speaker ?

    Oh, if only.....
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.

    That's what I expect, and I've known him a long time. He is from the "polite but firm left" school of thought as Corbyn. The suspension is a non-political issue and won't have changed that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2019
    Labour has been fined £12,500 for failing to properly report the donations given to it, the Electoral Commission today said. The watchdog said the fine is the highest penalty ever slapped on a political party for such an offence.

    Tories and Lib Dem's fined £200.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6594805/Labour-fined-12-500-failing-properly-report-donations.html

    Not exactly much of a punishment.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    I find it hard to understand why someone who is neither an ERG type, nor a hardcore Remainer, would want to vote against.
    Harlow voted Leave by 2:1. That, coupled with the views of his constituency party, no doubt would weigh on his mind.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960

    I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.

    Hopkins is a homeopathist, a mate of Corbyn’s, a Leave Means Leaver, and an (alleged) sex pest.

    The South Midlands really do have the worst MPs.
    He's also THE authority on the wines of Burgundy in the House.

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...
    1984? An analogy too close to the truth... :(
    If you want a picture of the future, imagine Theresa May trying to implement Btrexit - for ever.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    TOPPING said:


    It's not a non-story. It's one of several (we will not run out of medicines, there will be enough food after March 29th) the need for which, if only to dismiss the premise, is mind-boggling.

    I am professionally involved with one specific area that has been the subject of almost hysterical predictions of doom from remainers.

    Everybody I spoke to within the industry was relaxed right from the off about the consequences of Brexit and there was a widespread confidence there would be minimal, if any, actual disruption.

    I don't know about other industries but if remainers are as accurate with their predictions elsewhere as with my industry then their claims are little more than project fear.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Fun and amendments..

    I propose that this house bans low level letter boxes and revokes Article 50
    I move a motion "... That this House has no confidence in low letter boxes".
    Will everyone with a low letter box need to get a new door?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Sean_F said:

    I find it hard to understand why someone who is neither an ERG type, nor a hardcore Remainer, would want to vote against.
    Harlow voted Leave by 2:1. That, coupled with the views of his constituency party, no doubt would weigh on his mind.
    I can see that, but then he voted in favour of Remain. But, then, maybe that enraged his party so much they insisted he voted against this time round.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited January 2019
    AnneJGP said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Fun and amendments..

    I propose that this house bans low level letter boxes and revokes Article 50
    I move a motion "... That this House has no confidence in low letter boxes".
    Will everyone with a low letter box need to get a new door?
    I'd have thought a ban on the sale of doors with low level boxes and a low level box standard for new builds would be a sensible compromise here ?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    edited January 2019
    Chris said:

    That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...
    O'Brien. "...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    edited January 2019
    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    TOPPING said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    Plus making it compulsory to have the "tradesmen" buzzer work always to gain entry to blocks of flats.
    Anyone who has leafleted in Torbay would know that you would make it compulsory to have a post box by the front gate - and not up 60, 70, 80, 100 steps to the front door...... I once calulated that in one session I had walked the equivalent of one and a half Empire State Buildings.....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...
    O'Brien. "...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."
    "But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Boris."
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...
    O'Brien. "...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."
    Did he say that on his radio show?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited January 2019
    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    That Davis interview is positively Trumpian in its general incoherence. Can only presume he was blind drunk.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Very true and for similar reasons. They are indeed an evil menace which have been left unregulated for far too long.
    Yes. But what about the letterboxes?

    I'll get my coat
    I have to say that I increasingly believe that leafletting is a displacement activity to convince enthusiasts that they are actually taking part. I really can't believe it changes any votes at all unless there is a very, very specific local issue that people feel strongly about.
    I think for the locals it helps.

    I just love delivering bar chart infested Focus team leaflets in my sandals, with socks obviously!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    What a long trip they've made all the way from Muesli Hill !
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    TOPPING said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.
    What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?
    Not a political activist, I see!

    :smile:
    Too right!

    The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.
    Plus making it compulsory to have the "tradesmen" buzzer work always to gain entry to blocks of flats.
    Anyone who has leafleted in Torbay would know that you would make it compulsory to have a post box by the front gate - and not up 60, 70, 80, 100 steps to the front door...... I once calulated that in one session I had walked the equivalent of one and a half Empire State Buildings.....
    That falls down as a unit of measurement given that most people have never walked up the side of a skyscraper.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772



    There are no numbers anywhere in my village.

    Take the pathway past the steaming bog, left at the abandoned primary school that exudes an air of menace, keep going past the bare-chested old ladies smearing themselves in dung, and then right at Sainsbury's. You can't miss it.
    Waitrose, surely?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    All the people are in Parliament Square? Sounds unpleasant.

    Then again, I'm not there, so I'm clearly not a person, and wouldn't know.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...
    O'Brien. "f...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."
    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Not sure who the question marks were aimed at.
  • The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    probably as much as the crowds outside that Syria vote in Dec 2015.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    According to Con Home, Neil Parish will vote for the Deal, William Wragg against (both previously listed as probably voting against).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    SunnyJim said:

    TOPPING said:


    It's not a non-story. It's one of several (we will not run out of medicines, there will be enough food after March 29th) the need for which, if only to dismiss the premise, is mind-boggling.

    I am professionally involved with one specific area that has been the subject of almost hysterical predictions of doom from remainers.

    Everybody I spoke to within the industry was relaxed right from the off about the consequences of Brexit and there was a widespread confidence there would be minimal, if any, actual disruption.

    I don't know about other industries but if remainers are as accurate with their predictions elsewhere as with my industry then their claims are little more than project fear.

    Which is that specific area, please?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    Let me know when there's 17.4m of them.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Don't forget, he sets a very low bar for failure, otherwise he wouldn't have stuck to DexEU for two years.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It doesn't seem to have been noticed yet but it looks likely that more than half of all Conservative backbenchers are going to rebel tonight. That would look like a tipping point for Theresa May to me.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    This kind of post is the problem I have with peoples vote. You see hardly anyone calling for peoples vote who wants to leave. And drumming up a crowd in London to support Remain is like shooting fish in a barrel. Try doing in Stoke then you can say it’s the will of the people
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    viewcode said:

    SunnyJim said:

    TOPPING said:


    It's not a non-story. It's one of several (we will not run out of medicines, there will be enough food after March 29th) the need for which, if only to dismiss the premise, is mind-boggling.

    I am professionally involved with one specific area that has been the subject of almost hysterical predictions of doom from remainers.

    Everybody I spoke to within the industry was relaxed right from the off about the consequences of Brexit and there was a widespread confidence there would be minimal, if any, actual disruption.

    I don't know about other industries but if remainers are as accurate with their predictions elsewhere as with my industry then their claims are little more than project fear.

    Which is that specific area, please?
    Demolition?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    Let me know when there's 17.4m of them.....
    Only one way to find out!
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    It doesn't seem to have been noticed yet but it looks likely that more than half of all Conservative backbenchers are going to rebel tonight. That would look like a tipping point for Theresa May to me.

    Not only backbenchers either
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
    Elsewhere in the same interview:

    DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?

    Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.

    DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?

    Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.


    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
    Elsewhere in the same interview:

    DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?

    Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.

    DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?

    Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.


    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
    Just brilliant.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    This kind of post is the problem I have with peoples vote. You see hardly anyone calling for peoples vote who wants to leave. And drumming up a crowd in London to support Remain is like shooting fish in a barrel. Try doing in Stoke then you can say it’s the will of the people
    Newington?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
    Elsewhere in the same interview:

    DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?

    Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.

    DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?

    Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.


    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
    This is even funnier than the Suez / appeasement ramble.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited January 2019
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
    You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.

    She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    It doesn't seem to have been noticed yet but it looks likely that more than half of all Conservative backbenchers are going to rebel tonight. That would look like a tipping point for Theresa May to me.

    A tipping point for what?
    Do numbers even matter anymore?


  • You are possessed with this. I respect Ken Clarke but did not hear his comments

    The simple fact is A50 can only be revoked through the UK consitutional process

    It cannot be used as a ruse and to re-invoke has to be in a manner that would pass an ECJ ruling

    Let's say May says time is up and her final act of PM is revoking her Article 50. Parliament authorises it. Would that be valid?

    Then let's say we have a leadership election. The winner wins on a platform of fulfilling Brexit with a more specific agenda than Brexit means Brexit. Parliament authorises invoking Article 50 again. Would that be valid?
    She cannot revoke it on her own initiative. If parliament does authorise revoke that is valid

    However, if circumstances change and Parliament decides to invoke A50 that would be fine but may be subject to an ECJ ruling from remainers or the 27 nations

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    RoyalBlue said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
    You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.

    She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
    Well, we will soon find out.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.
    Most people need an interpreter when speaking in a foreign language. Not Davis, obviously as he could also be offering balance (unlikely, I know).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
    Elsewhere in the same interview:

    DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?

    Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.

    DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?

    Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.


    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
    Just brilliant.
    I think he must have been drunk.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    RoyalBlue said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
    You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.

    She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
    Pancake into the landscape ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    I only ever see the occasional clip of the House on social media.

    I think there would be an audience for a weekly round up, well-edited, but free of commentary and voiceover, featuring the most interesting contributions in the Commons, the Lords, and in public speeches. Not in a satirical or trivial way but genuinely aiming to create an ongoing narrative of our political scene.

    Well, an audience of at least one, anyway...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qtqd
    On TV, not radio, and weekly, not daily.
    There used to be such a programme on Saturday (BBC2 I think, in the early evening), fronted by Vincent Hanna and Andrew Rawnsley: "A Week in Politics" and it had what you describe, as well as other interesting stuff.

    If something like that were revived, I'd join you in the audience.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Apols for the language, but he does have a point.
    https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1085178345397145601
  • Spurs season and the Brexit deal hit the rocks on the same day.

    sub-optimal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sean_F said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
    Elsewhere in the same interview:

    DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?

    Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.

    DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?

    Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.


    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
    Just brilliant.
    I think he must have been drunk.
    I think he might have been sober. Its a dangerous state.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.
    Elsewhere in the same interview:

    DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?

    Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.

    DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?

    Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.


    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
    This is even funnier than the Suez / appeasement ramble.
    Are we sure that wasn’t Der Tägliche Brei ?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    edited January 2019
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.
    Hmm. Maybe that's what he was trying to say.

    But I don't think appeasement before WWII is a very good example of "big changes demand that you don't run away in fear from a decision." Wasn't appeasement essentially a way of avoiding a hard decision?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Anorak said:

    Apols for the language, but he does have a point.
    https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1085178345397145601

    Wealthy old man thinks having sex with a woman young enough to be his daughter after a history of relationship failures is something to be proud of
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Nigelb said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
    You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.

    She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
    Pancake into the landscape ?
    I believe the current phrase is "controlled flight into terrain"...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    viewcode said:

    Anorak said:

    Apols for the language, but he does have a point.*snip*

    Wealthy old man thinks having sex with a woman young enough to be his daughter after a history of relationship failures is something to be proud of
    It's just awful all the way through, from the appalling smugness to "my Belgian private equity friend" to "the Cracker from Caracas". What a copper bottomed, gold plated, leather bound tosser.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Miss Cyclefree, on that note, it irks me when political journalists tell us what politicians say instead of playing the footage directly.

    It's akin to 'filtering' in writing, whereby the writer, by mistake or error, ends up saying X saw Y, instead of just describing Y. It creates unnecessary distance between the reader (or viewer, in the previous example) and the subject.

    Anyway, I am off for the evening. Do have a calm and civil evening, everyone.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    Tbh though Field, Mann, Flint are the lowest of low hanging labour fruit for May to pick up on this.

    Has Will O’Vepeeple pledged yet?
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Drove down my S Glos high st earlier and no one gathered here. I must assume they have all gone up to London
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????
    No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.
    Hmm. Maybe that's what he was trying to say.

    But I don't think appeasement before WWII is a very good example of "big changes demand that you don't run away in fear from a decision." Wasn't appeasement essentially a way of avoiding a hard decision?
    It might well be. But I don't think that's what he thinks.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2019
    Just had a walk through the crowd outside Parliament. People walking around banging drums and waving flags in your face. Bit of a weird experience. I thought about trying to get in the public gallery but the queue was pretty long.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Colour me completely unsurprised. This. Is. The. Deal.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    DavidL said:

    Sky sticking to their 225 vote margin: 199 plays 424

    I think they will prove to be out by at least 50 abstentions but they may be near right about the level of support for May.
    The all time record depends largely on the no-shows then?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Anorak said:

    viewcode said:

    Anorak said:

    Apols for the language, but he does have a point.*snip*

    Wealthy old man thinks having sex with a woman young enough to be his daughter after a history of relationship failures is something to be proud of
    It's just awful all the way through, from the appalling smugness to "my Belgian private equity friend" to "the Cracker from Caracas". What a copper bottomed, gold plated, leather bound tosser.
    Indeed.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    RoyalBlue said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
    You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.

    She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
    Agree in part. I don't think she's going to shift; however, as long as Theresa May stonewalls Parliament and refuses to budge on her Deal then it's to the advantage of the Leave wing to let her carry on, because the clock continues to run down whilst the various groups of Remainers cluck and flap and agonise over the best course of action.

    Things only begin to get more sticky if Mr Speaker changes the rules to remove Government control of Commons business, allowing the Tory Hard Remainers to attempt to alter the course of Brexit, or if May herself decides to throw her Withdrawal Agreement in the dustbin and start from scratch. Both outcomes are possible, although why she would burn the Deal is beyond me. She insists that the referendum result must be honoured and that her negotiation has produced the best available way of doing this. It also constitutes more or less the sum total of her achievement as Prime Minister.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Prediction time? I'm going optimistic, and saying May will lose the vote by 195.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Anazina said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?
    As I explained the other day if we end up with a no deal Brexit and no toilet rolls it will be an important resource.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Anorak said:

    Colour me completely unsurprised. This. Is. The. Deal.
    Yet this morning we had https://order-order.com/2019/01/15/german-foreign-minister-opens-door-talks/

    Seems like they are trying to undermine May. This fake news reminds me of something
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I wonder if the Mays have packed.

    If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?
    I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.
    You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.

    She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
    Pancake into the landscape ?
    I believe the current phrase is "controlled flight into terrain"...
    I imagine it to be like when the saucer section lands on Veridian III. Survivable, but unpleasant.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    kle4 said:

    Prediction time? I'm going optimistic, and saying May will lose the vote by 195.

    I'll go for 198.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Anazina said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?
    Yes.
    Voters get annoyed if nobody tells them what their options are. I know from experience
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?

    https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167

    This kind of post is the problem I have with peoples vote. You see hardly anyone calling for peoples vote who wants to leave. And drumming up a crowd in London to support Remain is like shooting fish in a barrel. Try doing in Stoke then you can say it’s the will of the people
    Well there's always an angle that enables you to dismiss people you disagree with. Who cares what muesli eating Londoners think? Who cares what the old and uneducated think?

    But the fact is that it is looking like the whole Brexit process is going to be played out while parliament is surrounded by crowds highly motivated to oppose it. The last time crowds took that much interest was the Great Reform Act.

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Sean_F said:

    I've been unable to find any certain information about Kelvin Hopkins.
    Hoppo has an unusual profile insofar as he is a) a commitmented atheist and secularist b) a believer in homeopathy.

    Ergo, he doesn’t believe the myth of a bloke turning water into wine but does believe in blokes turning water into medicine.

    An odd combo!
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Anazina said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.
    Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!
    Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?
    It is not junk mail. It is political literature, fundamental to any healthy democracy.

    Whether people read it or not depends on the area. Prosperous retireds? Oh yes. Working 30 or 40 somethings? Almost never.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Anazina said:

    DavidL said:

    Sky sticking to their 225 vote margin: 199 plays 424

    I think they will prove to be out by at least 50 abstentions but they may be near right about the level of support for May.
    The all time record depends largely on the no-shows then?
    In my view yes but most the betting seems to be on the Ayes and it shouldn't affect that unless some MPs vote in both lobbies.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,921
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Change of timing for tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258

    You have to love Parliament...

    Fun and amendments..

    I propose that this house bans low level letter boxes and revokes Article 50
    Even worse are the narrow vertical ones that require you to put everything else down and twist from the waist.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Have bought 229. No idea where the extra votes will come from but something has to happen and the alternative is just bonkers. Although I also accept that it might take a couple of goes to pass.
This discussion has been closed.