My God, why isn't Gove selling the Tory party every day of the week.
Just topped up a couple more quid on him.
I think he is probably a Marmite politician. Personally, I think he is untrustworthy, shifty and insincere.
He’s a massive contradiction... intelligent and occasionally witty but seemingly lacking charisma, massively liberal reformer on prisons but absolutely bowl-of-cold-sick to liberal educationalists. I guess those who want to like him see the good stuff, those who don’t see the bad stuff. Those of us who see more politics than most probably see both and don’t know what they think.
That said, I bet most of the people behind him were wishing TM had managed an ounce of that passion in some of her performances.
True, I saw David Cameron on the TV and thought his communication skills were better than anyone in the Cabinet at the moment to be honest. Politics puzzles me at the moment, not just UK politics but America as well. It seems people have forgotten the hard won peace and relative stability we have succeeded in creating post WWII and people have become impatient with the status quo and want something dynamic and different even if it means walking off a cliff. I think it is all bonkers and will end in tears!
If all Tory MPs had all supported May last night as loyally as they’re going to tonight, May’s Deal would have passed by a majority of 6 and we’d be on the way to a smooth and steady transition to a relatively hardish and meaningful Brexit through a permanent FTA that was both realistic and honoured the referendum result.
Something to remember over the coming months.
Indeed. The ERG have a lot to answer for. As bad as Grieve and his ilk.
Thought you were an ultra hard no-dealer? Have I misunderstood?
Not in the slightest, I think some wires have been crossed. The deal was lamentable, but still the best of the options available.
Fair enough. I thought it was an acceptable compromise. I thought the future political declaration was genuinely fair.
Yes I agree with that, I think the PM could have done a lot better by not agreeing to any backstop in the first place.
That's very interesting and a bigger margin than expected. Who were the abstentions other than the Sinners, Speakers and Tellers? Looks like there were seven of them.
He's making a completely bonkers demand. She can't 'rule out' No Deal by herself, but the purpose of the talks is that she's trying to find a way of avoiding it.
My God, why isn't Gove selling the Tory party every day of the week.
Just topped up a couple more quid on him.
He is doing his leadership credentials no harm
The only really black mark against him was him pulling his support for Boris post the Brexit ref - that was really quite poor form. I think there was some suggestion of the influence of Mrs Gove there. If that was the case then I hope she either doesn't intervene in the future, or he doesn't listen if she does.
His disastrous exam reforms are not a black mark against him?
Oh, he's made mistakes. I don't know the detail of the issue you raise, so I'll just take your word for it that it was a mistake. Perhaps it's a mistake too far for you. Mistakes though are one thing, and acting dishonorably is another. I'd rather avoid having as PM anyone that has ever acted that way. I'd certainly not exclude people that have made mistakes though.
He's rendered all exam grades little better than guesses, due to deliberately over-ruling expert advice on content and assessment. He has also forced syllabi that are almost unteachable on us.
And he did it so far as can be judged (and despite his many claims) not because he wanted to improve grades, but because he wanted to prove he could. I'd call that 'acting dishonourably.'
With regard to this speech - which I haven't seen - what he says has never been an issue. I've always agreed with his outline plans on administrative reform, course content and assessment patterns. But I judge people by what they do, not what they say.
On the basis of what he has done, I prefer a serial liar, racist, terrorist supporter and apologist for paedophilia to him. I think that tells you all you need to know about his electoral appeal.
Well fair enough. I don't agree with your presumption as to his motives on education reform, but if that were true then it'd be a very black mark.
I really don't want to see Corbyn allowed to do anything. He's about the worst person I know based on what he says, I can't imagine how bad him doing things would be. (Some want to allow someone that has done nothing for 50 years to be our doer-in-chief! A trial run surely would be best - stage 1: shoelaces - let him tackle them.)
May's problem is with the Withdrawal Agreement not the political declaration.
Adopting Norway, Canada etc make no difference to the Withdrawal Agreement.
The Withdrawal Agreement should have been negotiated with a Free Trade agreement so that the Irish brder issue would not arise. But it wasn't.
The only solutions to the Irish backstop issue are either
a) Remain
b) Leave without an agreement and then negotiate a free trade agreement alongside a new withdrawal agreement. Neither the Irish nor the British will introduce checks at the border in the meantime.
Ummm - how do I put this?
If we leave without a deal, we don't need a Withdrawal Agreement. The Withdrawal Agreement is solely designed to smooth the process of leaving. Once we have withdrawn, with or without a withdrawal agreement, we can if we and the EU agree (which is something else I think too many people are overlooking) separately negotiate a new free trade agreement.
The problem is we cannot leave without either some of withdrawal agreement, or massive disruption, which means it is slightly unfortunate that the third rate Oedipus complex sufferers in Parliament have just rejected the withdrawal agreement.
The most suitable punishment would be that meted put to his daughter (or grand daughter?)
Comments
Implies:
- Govt got Hermon
- 4 Lab / Ind Lab abstentions
And note if DUP had voted against Govt then Govt would only have lost by one vote.
NEW THREAD
Won't be lost on anyone had the DUP voted with the Opposition the motion would have carried 316-315.
BANTER
I really don't want to see Corbyn allowed to do anything. He's about the worst person I know based on what he says, I can't imagine how bad him doing things would be. (Some want to allow someone that has done nothing for 50 years to be our doer-in-chief! A trial run surely would be best - stage 1: shoelaces - let him tackle them.)
I suspect it’s going to be meaningless in terms of r2