Rees-Mogg just confirmed to Andrew Neil that he'll support Govt in a future VONC whatever May does in the Brexit negotiations.
Of course he will, as will every MP wishing to remain a member of the Conservative party.
This is the root of why the FTPA is such a problem: a decade ago, last night’s vote would have been made an issue of confidence, the equivalent of a four line whip, and would probably have passed.
It would have been very close indeed.
The Gov't would have had 325 less 10 DUP = 315. (Tories + Hermon less Laing less 2 tellers)
Isn't Hermon pro-Labour?
Absolubtely not, she's one of the most sensible parliamentarians there is.
She was, for a long time. In fact she resigned from the UUP over their decision to resume formal links with the Tories.
She seems markedly less pro-Corbyn however.
From 2017:
'Lady Sylvia Hermon has ruled out ever lending her support to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
'The veteran North Down politician, who is the widow of former RUC Chief Constable Sir John Hermon, has traditionally supported Labour in Westminster votes.
'Seven years ago she quit the Ulster Unionist Party in protest at its alliance with the Conservatives ahead of the 2010 General Election.
'But Lady Hermon, who is again standing as an independent on Thursday, said "there are no circumstances" in which she would support a Corbyn-led government.'
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
Yes - the EU can buy the Irish a new potato factory or something to save face. Simples.
Well of course he does, but the also wants May to be the one that gets the blame for it. As long as No Deal is a possibility, Labour must ensure that it remains HER that drives us over the cliff edge. That's why Labour can't be in a formal negotiation process with May as long as she's still driving us towards the cliff edge.
A smart way forward would be i) Repeal the FTPA ii) Make the next vote on May's deal an explicit confidence vote.
There are enough numpties in the ERG to vote against and bring down the government.
OK So we have a General Election and they're all deselected. We move forward.
Who selects Tory candidates, the Central Office or the CPs?
I always assumed voting against party position in a VONC = whip withdrawn so you couldn't stand at next GE.
Not sure it would be that successful though. If 110 stood together, particularly if their CPs were very pro-Brexit, it would be a brave Party that withdrew that many whips simultaneously. It could be shown to be an empty threat, even before there were a chance to deploy.
Like Blazing Saddles - don't move or the ****** gets it.
A smart way forward would be i) Repeal the FTPA ii) Make the next vote on May's deal an explicit confidence vote.
Is there a majority for either option apart from in your head?
Making May's deal an explicit confidence vote triggers either a General Election or the deal passes. It *moves things forward*. I have no idea if there is a majority for either, and that was not my argument.
Yes, I get that but it's a nuclear option par excellence and would lead to open civil war in the Conservative Party would it not (which isn't a bad reason for proposing it I suppose) but that's not how politics works. Blair didn't make support for Iraq a Confidence measure but he would have quit had the motion to support the war lost. May could have publicly stated she would resign if the WA was rejected (but most would have called her bluff).
As to repealing the FTPA, I've no idea whether there is a majority for that or not. I imagine IF both the Conservative and Labour parties want or believe a GE necessary they have more than enough numbers to make it happen.
I don't know why the current Conservatives are so anti the FTPA - they were happy to support it once.
A smart way forward would be i) Repeal the FTPA ii) Make the next vote on May's deal an explicit confidence vote.
There are enough numpties in the ERG to vote against and bring down the government.
How about numpties among the pro second referendum school bringing down the government? I suspect the likes of Grieve at al will bring the gov't down to avoid a no deal scenario
A smart way forward would be i) Repeal the FTPA ii) Make the next vote on May's deal an explicit confidence vote.
Is there a majority for either option apart from in your head?
Making May's deal an explicit confidence vote triggers either a General Election or the deal passes. It *moves things forward*. I have no idea if there is a majority for either, and that was not my argument.
Yes, I get that but it's a nuclear option par excellence and would lead to open civil war in the Conservative Party would it not (which isn't a bad reason for proposing it I suppose) but that's not how politics works. Blair didn't make support for Iraq a Confidence measure but he would have quit had the motion to support the war lost. May could have publicly stated she would resign if the WA was rejected (but most would have called her bluff).
As to repealing the FTPA, I've no idea whether there is a majority for that or not. I imagine IF both the Conservative and Labour parties want or believe a GE necessary they have more than enough numbers to make it happen.
I don't know why the current Conservatives are so anti the FTPA - they were happy to support it once.
So, Mr Corbyn, you said you talked to the IRA and Hamas without pre-condition to find paths to peace, but you will not speak to the PM without pre-condition to try to find a way to avoid an economic catastrophe for the UK. Why? https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1085627591678148610
More stonewalling. The more he prats about, the more the clock runs down. He wants No Deal.
He would have been better to turn up and make that demand in person
A smart way forward would be i) Repeal the FTPA ii) Make the next vote on May's deal an explicit confidence vote.
There are enough numpties in the ERG to vote against and bring down the government.
OK So we have a General Election and they're all deselected. We move forward.
Who selects Tory candidates, the Central Office or the CPs?
I always assumed voting against party position in a VONC = whip withdrawn so you couldn't stand at next GE.
Not sure it would be that successful though. If 110 stood together, particularly if their CPs were very pro-Brexit, it would be a brave Party that withdrew that many whips simultaneously. It could be shown to be an empty threat, even before there were a chance to deploy.
Like Blazing Saddles - don't move or the ****** gets it.
Rees-Mogg just confirmed to Andrew Neil that he'll support Govt in a future VONC whatever May does in the Brexit negotiations.
Of course he will, as will every MP wishing to remain a member of the Conservative party.
This is the root of why the FTPA is such a problem: a decade ago, last night’s vote would have been made an issue of confidence, the equivalent of a four line whip, and would probably have passed.
It would have been very close indeed.
The Gov't would have had 325 less 10 DUP = 315. (Tories + Hermon less Laing less 2 tellers)
Isn't Hermon pro-Labour?
Absolubtely not, she's one of the most sensible parliamentarians there is.
She was, for a long time. In fact she resigned from the UUP over their decision to resume formal links with the Tories.
She seems markedly less pro-Corbyn however.
From 2017:
'Lady Sylvia Hermon has ruled out ever lending her support to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
'The veteran North Down politician, who is the widow of former RUC Chief Constable Sir John Hermon, has traditionally supported Labour in Westminster votes.
'Seven years ago she quit the Ulster Unionist Party in protest at its alliance with the Conservatives ahead of the 2010 General Election.
'But Lady Hermon, who is again standing as an independent on Thursday, said "there are no circumstances" in which she would support a Corbyn-led government.'
Rees-Mogg just confirmed to Andrew Neil that he'll support Govt in a future VONC whatever May does in the Brexit negotiations.
Of course he will, as will every MP wishing to remain a member of the Conservative party.
This is the root of why the FTPA is such a problem: a decade ago, last night’s vote would have been made an issue of confidence, the equivalent of a four line whip, and would probably have passed.
It would have been very close indeed.
The Gov't would have had 325 less 10 DUP = 315. (Tories + Hermon less Laing less 2 tellers)
Isn't Hermon pro-Labour?
Absolubtely not, she's one of the most sensible parliamentarians there is.
She was, for a long time. In fact she resigned from the UUP over their decision to resume formal links with the Tories.
She seems markedly less pro-Corbyn however.
From 2017:
'Lady Sylvia Hermon has ruled out ever lending her support to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
'The veteran North Down politician, who is the widow of former RUC Chief Constable Sir John Hermon, has traditionally supported Labour in Westminster votes.
'Seven years ago she quit the Ulster Unionist Party in protest at its alliance with the Conservatives ahead of the 2010 General Election.
'But Lady Hermon, who is again standing as an independent on Thursday, said "there are no circumstances" in which she would support a Corbyn-led government.'
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
I refer you to my earlier question. What, specifically would you be prepared to sacrifice for a backstop solution?
Unlike Lewis and Woodcock who actively chose to abstain tonight, and I say this with a good deal of kindness, but Flynn really needs to resign his seat.
Do we know how sick he is? It would be sad to see a repeat of what happened in 1979, where the VonC came down to an MP who was five days from meeting his maker.
The official story is he has very severe arthritis and therefore finds it very difficult to move.
I'm starting to wonder if there's a bit more to it than that.
Ah okay. That doesn’t sound like something that’s likely to improve with treatment, in which case maybe it’s better that he takes the Chiltern Hundreds.
Immunotherapy RA treatments are now very effective. We spend more on them than any other drug. Thank God a biosimilar (generic) adalimumab had become available.
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
Yes - the EU can buy the Irish a new potato factory or something to save face. Simples.
The EU don't need to save face. The UK Govt. could agree to build a bridge/tunnel combo between NI and Scotland. Everybody gets something. Ireland gets a massive piece of infrastructure. UK gets Brexit. EU gets orderly Brexit and its £39n.
I mean, people, for fucks sake, start thinking outside the bloody box..... We need creative ideas.
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
I refer you to my earlier question. What, specifically would you be prepared to sacrifice for a backstop solution?
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
I refer you to my earlier question. What, specifically would you be prepared to sacrifice for a backstop solution?
Cede Northern Ireland to the French
How about Northern Ireland to Spain and Gibraltar to Ireland?
Well of course he does, but the also wants May to be the one that gets the blame for it. As long as No Deal is a possibility, Labour must ensure that it remains HER that drives us over the cliff edge. That's why Labour can't be in a formal negotiation process with May as long as she's still driving us towards the cliff edge.
If there is no deal, it is because the Commons has willed it.
The problem with a new referendum is that the people that want an new EU referendum are the same ones that oppose a new Scottish Independence one. The other problem is that we now know that in the event of a leave vote this parliament and these parties will never implement it. So why waste £120M on the pointless vote. Just withdraw article 50 and prepare to be swept away at the next election.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
1. May can't take it off the table, because it's what has been legislated for, in the absence of a deal, 2. It 's not blackmail to hold people to their decisions, 3. Corbyn wants no deal.
1. She can, it is entirely within the government's gift 2. Oh yes it is 3. He wants Tory no deal, which he is seen to oppose.
May can't just proclaim that legislation to leave the EU doesn't apply (well, she can, but the Supreme Court will take a different view)
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
1. May can't take it off the table, because it's what has been legislated for, in the absence of a deal, 2. It 's not blackmail to hold people to their decisions, 3. Corbyn wants no deal.
1. She can, it is entirely within the government's gift 2. Oh yes it is 3. He wants Tory no deal, which he is seen to oppose.
May can't just proclaim that legislation to leave the EU doesn't apply (well, she can, but the Supreme Court will take a different view)
If the government wants to revoke or extend (with EU support), it can, and quickly.
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
I refer you to my earlier question. What, specifically would you be prepared to sacrifice for a backstop solution?
Cede Northern Ireland to the French
How about Northern Ireland to Spain and Gibraltar to Ireland?
Cunning. We can always claim Ireland was a party to the Treaty of Utrecht anyway. While we're at it, I'd quite like to swap Scotland for Flanders..
Surely May would be better meeting all the party leaders at once, not individually...
What are they going of say. Jezza says must take no deal off table, cable says must offer second referendum, SNP say they want that and a second referendum on Scottish independence and the greens bang on about fracking.
So, after a seismic 48 hours...Nothing has changed.
The stalemate continues.
At least we had something to bet on, and I am £100 better off.
There is no doubt that TM legacy will be 'nothing has changed' but no matter your politics you have to be amazed at her resilience and dedication to public service
She's autistic. That's all.
Can you provide a link to your allegation
She's described "as having no friends" by michael gove People have said she lacks warmth and personality on first meeting. She even has the autistic facial structure, wide eyes and cat face. It has variously been said that she is ‘fundamentally unknowable’, ‘aloof’, ’reticent’, ‘self-contained’ and ‘sphinx like’.
She shows every single trait of somebody with autism. Her absurd, self-defeating stubbornness, secrecy and absolute imperviousness to either shame or change are all just part of May's neurological makeup.
Theresa May is neurologically incapable of the task to which we have set her. In many ways it's cruel, because we're torturing a helpless innocent.
That is not a link to medical confirmation and without it you may want to take care in your allegations
Yes, I would say it was not possible to diagnose autism this way, just as it is difficult to do the same for Trump's supposed Narcisstic Personality Disorder. It would require some evidence of damage to physical, mental or social functioning to reach that threshold, and there is no evidence for that.
I do think that her mental rigidity and poor people skills make her particularly ill suited for the task of negotiation, either with other British politicians or with those abroad. She has squandered 2 years of negotiating time and has no ideas on how to break the deadlock.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
1. May can't take it off the table, because it's what has been legislated for, in the absence of a deal, 2. It 's not blackmail to hold people to their decisions, 3. Corbyn wants no deal.
1. She can, it is entirely within the government's gift 2. Oh yes it is 3. He wants Tory no deal, which he is seen to oppose.
May can't just proclaim that legislation to leave the EU doesn't apply (well, she can, but the Supreme Court will take a different view)
Ivan Lewis and John Woodcock have clearly split with Labour on a permanent basis. No way that they would now have the Whip restored. Onasanya clearly feels she has no future there either.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
1. May can't take it off the table, because it's what has been legislated for, in the absence of a deal, 2. It 's not blackmail to hold people to their decisions, 3. Corbyn wants no deal.
1. She can, it is entirely within the government's gift 2. Oh yes it is 3. He wants Tory no deal, which he is seen to oppose.
May can't just proclaim that legislation to leave the EU doesn't apply (well, she can, but the Supreme Court will take a different view)
If the government wants to revoke or extend (with EU support), it can, and quickly.
In theory, May could offer to form a coalition with Labour to revoke Brexit, but if you expect her to do that, as a pre -condition for talks, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Unlike Lewis and Woodcock who actively chose to abstain tonight, and I say this with a good deal of kindness, but Flynn really needs to resign his seat.
Do we know how sick he is? It would be sad to see a repeat of what happened in 1979, where the VonC came down to an MP who was five days from meeting his maker.
The official story is he has very severe arthritis and therefore finds it very difficult to move.
I'm starting to wonder if there's a bit more to it than that.
Ah okay. That doesn’t sound like something that’s likely to improve with treatment, in which case maybe it’s better that he takes the Chiltern Hundreds.
Immunotherapy RA treatments are now very effective. We spend more on them than any other drug. Thank God a biosimilar (generic) adalimumab had become available.
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Dirty fucking Leeds.
I don't follow football, but can't see in any way why this is a problem. Know the enemy.
So even with the DUP Corbyn would still have fallen short.
According to my maths, if the DUP had voted against the Government tonight then the VoNC would've succeeded by a margin of one.
Note: It would appear that the three ex-Labour abstainers/absentees tonight were John Woodcock, Ivan Lewis and Fiona Onasanya.
Peston says otherwise; did they all vote?
With the aid of the HoC and BBC websites, I make the breakdown as follows:
Government side
314 Conservatives (that's all of them except the tellers and deputy speaker) All 10 DUP and Sylvia Hermon
Total = 325
Opposition side
251 Labour (that's all of them except the tellers, two deputy speakers and the absent Paul Flynn) All 35 SNP, 11 LD, 4 Plaid and the Green 4 independents (Kelvin Hopkins, Jared O'Mara, Frank Field and Stephen Lloyd)
Total = 306
The grand total of votes cast was 631. The remaining 19 non-voters were:
The Speaker and three deputies (4) The tellers (4) Sinn Fein (7) Absent sick: Paul Flynn Other abstentions: John Woodcock, Fiona Onasanya, Ivan Lewis
So I'm sure my maths was right. If Woodcock, Onasanya and Lewis weren't the abstainers then the BBC are misreporting some of the votes.
Unlike Lewis and Woodcock who actively chose to abstain tonight, and I say this with a good deal of kindness, but Flynn really needs to resign his seat.
Do we know how sick he is? It would be sad to see a repeat of what happened in 1979, where the VonC came down to an MP who was five days from meeting his maker.
The official story is he has very severe arthritis and therefore finds it very difficult to move.
I'm starting to wonder if there's a bit more to it than that.
Ah okay. That doesn’t sound like something that’s likely to improve with treatment, in which case maybe it’s better that he takes the Chiltern Hundreds.
Immunotherapy RA treatments are now very effective. We spend more on them than any other drug. Thank God a biosimilar (generic) adalimumab had become available.
I quite agree. Modern biologic therapy for arthritis has transformed the prognosis of rheumatoid, albeit at a pretty steep price.
Apart from your unacceptable language you show no knowledge of negotiation and in virtually every case it worked often upto minutes from signing contract
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Dirty fucking Leeds.
I don't follow football, but can't see in any way why this is a problem. Know the enemy.
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Dirty fucking Leeds.
I don't follow football, but can't see in any way why this is a problem. Know the enemy.
Wasn't the guy at Derby caught onsite with bolt cutters?
It was more than watching the training pitch with binoculars.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
Corbyn is absolutely right to refuse to talk to May unless she takes no deal off the table. Keeping No Deal alive is blackmail, and nobody in good conscience could be expected to negotiate where the other party is trying to blackmail you.
I would expect the other parties to similarly decline May's invitation.
1. May can't take it off the table, because it's what has been legislated for, in the absence of a deal, 2. It 's not blackmail to hold people to their decisions, 3. Corbyn wants no deal.
1. She can, it is entirely within the government's gift 2. Oh yes it is 3. He wants Tory no deal, which he is seen to oppose.
May can't just proclaim that legislation to leave the EU doesn't apply (well, she can, but the Supreme Court will take a different view)
In 2049, unlocked Cabinet papers will reveal how May and Corbyn worked closely on their secret plan to ensure No Deal passed a House set against it as an outcome.....
Once again someone sees Conspiracy when it's just a cock up...
I'd say that tonight for the first time I feel genuine despair. I don't see a way back from the brink from here. Our country is in deep, deep trouble.
Your months of despair prior weren't genuine??
I wasn't despairing. I was observing. I guess it did not seem real. Now it does.
In my view, it was all over at about 1 am on June 24th 2016. I realised this in the count. That was the point of no return. The political consequences of overruling the leave victory negate any meaningful attempt to mitigate the damage of the decision.
I'd say that tonight for the first time I feel genuine despair. I don't see a way back from the brink from here. Our country is in deep, deep trouble.
Your months of despair prior weren't genuine??
I wasn't despairing. I was observing. I guess it did not seem real. Now it does.
Perhaps I may help here...
The temptation is to think that we are players in this game, but we're not: we're spectators, not participants. I'm annoyed that many of our MPs and fellow citizens are irresponsible twats, but that's never going to change. Instead of bemoaning our plight, which is unproductive, let us at least try to profit from other people's fuckups.
Think of it positively. You know things that many do not. Corbyn is a Leaver who actively wants chaos. May is Clausewitz type IV. MPs are [REDACTED]. If you know there's going to be a bad thing on March 29th, then you have considerable time to arrange your finances to benefit from it. Use this knowledge and the time that you have to make your life better.
Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.
Dirty fucking Leeds.
I don't follow football, but can't see in any way why this is a problem. Know the enemy.
Wasn't the guy at Derby caught onsite with bolt cutters?
It was more than watching the training pitch with binoculars.
Oh goody. The sides are still talking past each other to posture pointlessly, what's she going to say? "I offered to speak to Corbyn but he said no"? Labour and others won't care about that.
That is a fair starting point for talks given she has said several times she wants to avoid it.
You cannot take No Deal off the table because it is not an option in the first place, it is the consequence of failure to exercise an option.
Insultingly patronising analogy time: if the menu says chicken tikka, korma or biryani you have four options - chicken tikka, korma, biryani or not eating. Taking no deal off the table is saying to the waiter "I do not wish not to be served a meal" and the waiter's only possible response is: well do you want tikka, korma or biryani, then?
That's one problem. In itself it is not insuperable, because if "I don't want No Meal" completely defines your position then you can make the choice by asking what the chef recommends, or throwing dice, or something. The further problem is that you and your fellow diners don't just want to avoid a No Meal situation, they are also each of them implacably opposed to at least one of tikka, korma, biryani as well.
Which is why "No Deal won't happen because nobody wants it" is just not a sound argument.
In 2049, unlocked Cabinet papers will reveal how May and Corbyn worked closely on their secret plan to ensure No Deal passed a House set against it as an outcome.....
Once again someone sees Conspiracy when it's just a cock up...
It's notable that Woodcock, Lewis and Onasanya were all there for the vote yesterday.
So no question these are deliberate abstentions today.
Now they knew their votes didn't matter today - Govt was certain to win.
But it begs the question - if Govt loses the DUP and it's on an absolute knife-edge what would they do? They surely aren't indifferent as to whether there is a GE - it will have a major personal affect on them.
Has to be a chance they vote with the Govt - especially Woodcock and Lewis who have surely left Labour ideologically. Situation a bit different with Onasanya as presumably she still supports Labour 100%.
Surely May would be better meeting all the party leaders at once, not individually...
It would be an interesting prospect. Perhaps that can follow the individual meetings. How could anyone say no? And it would mean they could not say one thing and claim another slightly different thing without all knowing about it.
Completely O/T (for which I apologise, its an excellent thread header) but I have just caught the trailer for Vice. I really can't remember when I was looking forward to a film so much.
1. No Deal is grim. If anything they understate the ghastliness because there will big political fallout from having to make the same compromises, this time in the context of economic dislocation and no transition period.
2. Remain after a second referendum lacks support and is difficult to achieve.
3. Resubmit a revised, softer version of the Deal with countdown to No Deal hanging as a threat, in the hope that enough Labour MPs come on board. Highly risky.
The authors think Theresa May is pinning her hopes on the third option.
1. No Deal is grim. If anything they understate the ghastliness because there will big political fallout from having to make the same compromises, this time in the context of economic dislocation and no transition period.
2. Remain on a second referendum lacks support and is difficult to achieve.
3. Resubmit a revised, softer version of the Deal with countdown to No Deal hanging as a threat, in the hope that enough Labour MPs come on board. Highly risky.
The authors think Theresa May is pinning her hopes on the third option.
Why weaken your hand and make the EU refuse further concessions. It is not going to happen until a clear alternative has been decided upon
The EU will not offer further concessions. This deal is the best deal and the only deal.
Until 48 hours to 29th March deadline......... It's the way they work. Always have.
It's how they work if they think you have a chance of delivering. May is clearly unable to deliver; her party want to crash out and so does the DUP, so why would anyone go out on a limb for her?
Though I do look forward to the gradually ramping chaos and panic as we move ever closer to that cliff edge, it's going to be beautiful.
Take away the backstop - and she can deliver......
The EU don't want it delivered anymore, so any prospect of it being taken away has gone, if it ever was there.
It's notable that Woodcock, Lewis and Onasanya were all there for the vote yesterday.
So no question these are deliberate abstentions today.
Now they knew their votes didn't matter today - Govt was certain to win.
But it begs the question - if Govt loses the DUP and it's on an absolute knife-edge what would they do? They surely aren't indifferent as to whether there is a GE - it will have a major personal affect on them.
Has to be a chance they vote with the Govt - especially Woodcock and Lewis who have surely left Labour ideologically. Situation a bit different with Onasanya as presumably she still supports Labour 100%.
With any luck Ms Onasanya will find herself otherwise engaged shortly, won’t have that decision to make.
So, after a seismic 48 hours...Nothing has changed.
The stalemate continues.
At least we had something to bet on, and I am £100 better off.
There is no doubt that TM legacy will be 'nothing has changed' but no matter your politics you have to be amazed at her resilience and dedication to public service
She's autistic. That's all.
Can you provide a link to your allegation
She's described "as having no friends" by michael gove People have said she lacks warmth and personality on first meeting. She even has the autistic facial structure, wide eyes and cat face. It has variously been said that she is ‘fundamentally unknowable’, ‘aloof’, ’reticent’, ‘self-contained’ and ‘sphinx like’.
She shows every single trait of somebody with autism. Her absurd, self-defeating stubbornness, secrecy and absolute imperviousness to either shame or change are all just part of May's neurological makeup.
Theresa May is neurologically incapable of the task to which we have set her. In many ways it's cruel, because we're torturing a helpless innocent.
That is not a link to medical confirmation and without it you may want to take care in your allegations
Why the need to "take care"? Do you really think Treason Mayhem is going to take time out of her heavily occluded calendar to sue grabcoque because he called her autistic on the arse end of the Internet?
OH HOLY F*****G S**T. EVERYTIME SHE OPENS HER MOUTH THE POUND TAKES A BATH. WHAT IS IT THIS TIME? ELECTION? RESIGNATION? GONU? WAR WITH SATURN? CAN'T YOU LAY OFF THE DRAMA FOR A FEW DAYS GODSDAMMIT?! I CAN ONLY COPE WITH ONE B****Y EMERGENCY AT A TIME.
Comments
'Lady Sylvia Hermon has ruled out ever lending her support to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
'The veteran North Down politician, who is the widow of former RUC Chief Constable Sir John Hermon, has traditionally supported Labour in Westminster votes.
'Seven years ago she quit the Ulster Unionist Party in protest at its alliance with the Conservatives ahead of the 2010 General Election.
'But Lady Hermon, who is again standing as an independent on Thursday, said "there are no circumstances" in which she would support a Corbyn-led government.'
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/i-could-never-back-labour-if-corbyn-was-its-leader-says-hermon-35783622.html
As to repealing the FTPA, I've no idea whether there is a majority for that or not. I imagine IF both the Conservative and Labour parties want or believe a GE necessary they have more than enough numbers to make it happen.
I don't know why the current Conservatives are so anti the FTPA - they were happy to support it once.
I mean, people, for fucks sake, start thinking outside the bloody box..... We need creative ideas.
May should take No Deal off the table.
That is a fair starting point for talks given she has said several times she wants to avoid it.
Or before the apocalypse, to be fair.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/jan/16/how-did-my-mp-vote-in-the-no-confidence-motion?CMP=snap
I only wish you had some influence over May and Corbyn
I do think that her mental rigidity and poor people skills make her particularly ill suited for the task of negotiation, either with other British politicians or with those abroad. She has squandered 2 years of negotiating time and has no ideas on how to break the deadlock.
She can refer them to the Act itself.
(1)A Minister of the Crown may by regulations make such provision as the Minister considers appropriate to prevent, remedy or mitigate—
(a)any failure of retained EU law to operate effectively, or
(b)any other deficiency in retained EU law,
arising from the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the EU.
(5)Regulations under subsection (1) may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament.
Government side
314 Conservatives (that's all of them except the tellers and deputy speaker)
All 10 DUP and Sylvia Hermon
Total = 325
Opposition side
251 Labour (that's all of them except the tellers, two deputy speakers and the absent Paul Flynn)
All 35 SNP, 11 LD, 4 Plaid and the Green
4 independents (Kelvin Hopkins, Jared O'Mara, Frank Field and Stephen Lloyd)
Total = 306
The grand total of votes cast was 631. The remaining 19 non-voters were:
The Speaker and three deputies (4)
The tellers (4)
Sinn Fein (7)
Absent sick: Paul Flynn
Other abstentions: John Woodcock, Fiona Onasanya, Ivan Lewis
So I'm sure my maths was right. If Woodcock, Onasanya and Lewis weren't the abstainers then the BBC are misreporting some of the votes.
https://twitter.com/chris__curtis/status/1085637014559559680?s=21
https://twitter.com/chris__curtis/status/1085637470723719183?s=21
All right thinking people hate them.
It was more than watching the training pitch with binoculars.
The temptation is to think that we are players in this game, but we're not: we're spectators, not participants. I'm annoyed that many of our MPs and fellow citizens are irresponsible twats, but that's never going to change. Instead of bemoaning our plight, which is unproductive, let us at least try to profit from other people's fuckups.
Think of it positively. You know things that many do not. Corbyn is a Leaver who actively wants chaos. May is Clausewitz type IV. MPs are [REDACTED]. If you know there's going to be a bad thing on March 29th, then you have considerable time to arrange your finances to benefit from it. Use this knowledge and the time that you have to make your life better.
After all: what else are you going to do...?
Insultingly patronising analogy time: if the menu says chicken tikka, korma or biryani you have four options - chicken tikka, korma, biryani or not eating. Taking no deal off the table is saying to the waiter "I do not wish not to be served a meal" and the waiter's only possible response is: well do you want tikka, korma or biryani, then?
That's one problem. In itself it is not insuperable, because if "I don't want No Meal" completely defines your position then you can make the choice by asking what the chef recommends, or throwing dice, or something. The further problem is that you and your fellow diners don't just want to avoid a No Meal situation, they are also each of them implacably opposed to at least one of tikka, korma, biryani as well.
Which is why "No Deal won't happen because nobody wants it" is just not a sound argument.
So no question these are deliberate abstentions today.
Now they knew their votes didn't matter today - Govt was certain to win.
But it begs the question - if Govt loses the DUP and it's on an absolute knife-edge what would they do? They surely aren't indifferent as to whether there is a GE - it will have a major personal affect on them.
Has to be a chance they vote with the Govt - especially Woodcock and Lewis who have surely left Labour ideologically. Situation a bit different with Onasanya as presumably she still supports Labour 100%.
1. No Deal is grim. If anything they understate the ghastliness because there will big political fallout from having to make the same compromises, this time in the context of economic dislocation and no transition period.
2. Remain after a second referendum lacks support and is difficult to achieve.
3. Resubmit a revised, softer version of the Deal with countdown to No Deal hanging as a threat, in the hope that enough Labour MPs come on board. Highly risky.
The authors think Theresa May is pinning her hopes on the third option.
https://twitter.com/JohnSpringford/status/1085549974367154180
So it is a false suggestion.
If she announces that she is going to try to renegotiate I hope Hammond puts us - and her - out of her misery by resigning.
LOL!