Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
I have certainly felt sympathy for her. She is, in a very literal, and literary, sense a tragic figure. Her great strength, her determination, has become her fatal flaw, stubbornness and a refusal to compromise.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn.
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacture axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on
The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy
You can't blame the remainers when if they win all these sort of problems will go away
Both sides are responsible. How many remainers authorised A50 with default no deal and now want to stop brexit
Of course my position is TM deal or similar or remain
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
Not strictly true. If party A gets 12% and party B gets 8%, A gets elected first. If, instead, party A1 gets 6% and party A2 gets 6% , party B gets elected in place of either.
Not strictly true either, in the 1999 European elections UKIP got 5.6% and still got 3 MEPs.
So party A1 and A2 would still get candidates elected even on just 6% each
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
Not strictly true. If party A gets 12% and party B gets 8%, A gets elected first. If, instead, party A1 gets 6% and party A2 gets 6% , party B gets elected in place of either.
I think I might do a thread on the D'Hondt method this Sunday to show how two Pro-Brexit could split the vote to the detriment of their cause.
The vote was split in 2014 - it cost Ukip two seats.
Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
I was a participant in that poll and I recorded the view that I have no sympathy for her.
She is being paid to execute a job that has significant responsibility and kudos. Literally hundreds of other people could as competently make the decisions she has made. She is a victim of her own inability to communicate at a level usually associated with the job. Her management skills might be worthy of the office she leads but overall, her judgement and her communication to the country have been found wanting.
The only thing that keeps her in office is the alternative or rather the fear of something even worse. That said, in the same poll it asked who would be the best PM: May or Corbyn - I chose May!
Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
Curious. What’s the reason for disliking Paul Boateng?
There are going to be plenty of hard Leave parties around. There may be as many as six Leave parties standing in Peterborough if there’s a by-election there.
Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
I have certainly felt sympathy for her. She is, in a very literal, and literary, sense a tragic figure. Her great strength, her determination, has become her fatal flaw, stubbornness and a refusal to compromise.
Yep. Not actually fatal yet, but certainly very likely so. However Brexit goes I see a change of leadership after matters have settled down, and a relatively early GE. (Have layed the 2022 GE which is a nice bet in that losing will almost certainly mean I'm happy otherwise)
New experience for me watching Boris Johnson today. Genuine embarrassment for the guy.
Nothing has gone right for him since the Brexit result. He could have quite passionately argued for either cause. He did a calculation that glorious defeat in a Brexit referendum sets him to be the next PM. Hmm. Didn’t quite go well.
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
If you think May's response to "Take No Deal off the table" should be a screeching U-Turn on whether her deal is the best possible deal, then fine. She can go and join the ERGers. But if she does do that, that still represents Corbyn having boxed her in to a very awkward position.
For one thing, completely contradicting her previous position is embarassing. For another, it'll alienate her from her previous allies, the people who agree with her argument that her deal is the only deal around (apart from those- and I'm afraid you appear to be falling into this category- who are happy to perform whatever cognitive handbrake turns are required to track her current position). For a third, and perhaps most important, it means that in the likely event that the backstop doesn't get taken out of the WA, she'll have undermined her own main argument for the deal when it comes back up to vote again.
I think causing her that much trouble represents smart politics from the opposition, doesn't it?
Not really. Take out no deal, hand everything to remainers and the EU
Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
I was a participant in that poll and I recorded the view that I have no sympathy for her.
She is being paid to execute a job that has significant responsibility and kudos. Literally hundreds of other people could as competently make the decisions she has made. She is a victim of her own inability to communicate at a level usually associated with the job. Her management skills might be worthy of the office she leads but overall, her judgement and her communication to the country have been found wanting.
The only thing that keeps her in office is the alternative or rather the fear of something even worse. That said, in the same poll it asked who would be the best PM: May or Corbyn - I chose May!
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?
We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.
There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.
Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
Curious. What’s the reason for disliking Paul Boateng?
I can't prove the reasons therefore I probably shouldn't respond. He had some strong and very wrong views when he was young connected with policing.
A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.
I have noticed with advocates of Brexit, the cheque is always in the post about the future. The only thing the UK will be exporting in the future is jobs by the look of it!
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.
I have noticed with advocates of Brexit, the cheque is always in the post about the future. The only thing the UK will be exporting in the future is jobs by the look of it!
Jobs were being regularly exported to coal burning EU economies whilst we were fully in the EU.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
In this ongoing negotiation it will be absolutely bonkers to take no deal off the table.
We need to keep pointing a massive bazooka at our own head until the EU sees sense.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?
We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.
There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal
That is possible
I think it is the likely outcome once all other alternatives have been eliminated.
Plus about 500 to 550 MPs back either Remain or the Deal and barely more than 100 at most back No Deal even though almost a third of the voters back No Deal as their first preference
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, an impact that has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I heard Tony Benn speak at the Oxford Union and really enjoyed it. He was thoroughly charming and very engaging.
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Why why why? How does it help?! A pox on all these bastards.
It helps if a bunch of Labour MPs in Leave seats are going "Gulp!!!!" at the idea. Maybe they'll put out some feelers on what it takes to get a Brexit outcome.....?
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, which has has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.
Yeah I quite liked Blair, but disagreed with him almost entirely. Like him less in his more recent thoughts. Didn't like Brown at all - I oddly think he was less humble than Blair and all faux dignity.
There are going to be plenty of hard Leave parties around. There may be as many as six Leave parties standing in Peterborough if there’s a by-election there.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
This may in a sense be good for Corbyn in the political game, but at this stage the voting public might be starting to wonder whether he is interested in what is good for the country.
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
No.
I feel there's some weight behind those two letters
(Thanks for replying though - sort of interesting how we mostly hate our political opponents, but sometimes we don't - we just disagree.)
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, an impact that has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.
Have you ever read any of the accounts of Browns time as PM and the abuse he dissed out to the employees of Downing Street? Humble and dignified I would not call him, undignified, paranoid nasty piece of work, I would.
Only light snow, the sort of snow that sees Southern softies declare a state of emergency.
That's a rather pointless pissing contest. I imagine Sheffield would be at a standstill with the 15" of snow we've had in the past 2 days, and the Canadians would laugh at our inability to deal with snow.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.
I have noticed with advocates of Brexit, the cheque is always in the post about the future. The only thing the UK will be exporting in the future is jobs by the look of it!
Currently, there is net growth in jobs, with rising real wages.
@Benpointer I wish to clarify that I do, occasionally, a MaccyD although I prefer both Burger King and Five Guys. I also eat at Fullers pubs in preference to Wetherspoons.
@FrancisUrquhart boxed wine is great when you only have the occasional glass. I only bring out the good stuff when I the company of people who will appreciate it
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I heard Tony Benn speak at the Oxford Union and really enjoyed it. He was thoroughly charming and very engaging.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I heard Tony Benn speak at the Oxford Union and really enjoyed it. He was thoroughly charming and very engaging.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's support
@Benpointer I wish to clarify that I do, occasionally, a MaccyD although I prefer both Burger King and Five Guys. I also eat at Fullers pubs in preference to Wetherspoons.
@FrancisUrquhart boxed wine is great when you only have the occasional glass. I only bring out the good stuff when I the company of people who will appreciate it
I am, after all, a man of the people
Totally agree with Five guys (in the us).
No offense I just can’t see you sitting down on a chilly Friday night and cracking open the 3l box of vinegar tasting white wine.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's support
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
It is the most damaging of the scenario for the EU of those on table, yet it is also the most damaging for ourselves.
The truth is it’s on the table pointing at both sides.
Those who come off worse if it goes off we can agree is us? It’s genuinely debatable but most fact checkers point to that?
But what we are agreeing is, it’s not who will come off worse when it goes off who wants it off the table but those left in weaker position once it’s off the table who most want it to stay there. Is that the honest truth with it?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's support
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.
Bercow wants to go down in history as the Speaker who assured the supremacy of the legislature over the executive and he may well achieve it
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
It is the most damaging of the scenario for the EU of those on table, yet it is also the most damaging for ourselves.
The truth is it’s on the table pointing at both sides.
Those who come off worse if it goes off we can agree is us? It’s genuinely debatable but most fact checkers point to that?
But what we are agreeing is, it’s not who will come off worse when it goes off who wants it off the table but those left in weaker position once it’s off the table who most want it to stay there. Is that the honest truth with it?
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, an impact that has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.
Have you ever read any of the accounts of Browns time as PM and the abuse he dissed out to the employees of Downing Street? Humble and dignified I would not call him, undignified, paranoid nasty piece of work, I would.
His handling of the treaty of Lisbon is as much to blame for Brexit as David Cameron is.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those wht out policy and its catastrophic execution.
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?
I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
"Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes." - P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.
"Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either."" - David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
"Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates."" - Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
So - three people, who were each given majority power by a minority of the vote, defended the system that gave them that power?
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.
Sorry, should always check before hyperventilating.
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.
Sorry, should always check before hyperventilating.
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.
If we're helped off the ledge, we cannot do it again. Once the deal's done it's done.
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
2/3 of the House voting to dissolve, thus avoiding the 14 days?
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
You don't need the 14 days if Parliament votes for an election, instead of a no confidence vote, like they did in 2017. Since Labour surely would back such a motion if Theresa May announced one it would sail through and no 14 days needed.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?
We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.
There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal
That is possible
I think it is the likely outcome once all other alternatives have been eliminated.
Plus about 500 to 550 MPs back either Remain or the Deal and barely more than 100 at most back No Deal even though almost a third of the voters back No Deal as their first preference
Does it really take a month to teach 16 year olds how to surrender?
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
Does it really take a month to teach 16 year olds how to surrender?
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
I think you're right and the New Statesman is wrong.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.
Such fondly remembered days, the sun shining, the PM gayly dressing like the bay city rollers as we all looked forward to having our cake and eating it. All those new trade deals to look forward to 29th March 2019. Power stations were being built. A new welfare reform was about to deliver for the better. We probably weren’t even aware of all the people in dentention centres for the crime of being unable to prove they stepped off a boat aged three and were waved through customs?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's support
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.
But it isn't a shocker. It may defy precedent, but the Speaker is an absolute Monarch w.r.t. Parliamentary procedures. His Word is Law. And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it. *Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare displd you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
what do you think has been going on for the last 20 years. Manufacturing in the UK has been butchered and Brexit is simply the result,
HP Sauce, Cadburys. Bendinck mints, Twinings, PSA Ryton, Ford Southampton, Ford Dagenham just off the top of my head - all closed and work transferred to Europe.
Out in the provinces UK workers have been serially shafted and nobody gave a toss. Now that theyve got uppity suddenly everyones concerned, Crocodile tears.
The time to worry about closures was 2000 and after and nobody did.
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
You don't need the 14 days if Parliament votes for an election, like they did in 2017. Since Labour surely would back such a motion if Theresa May announced one it would sail through and no 14 days needed.
"Sail thru" is not zero time. To hit Feb 28th she'd have to dissolve parliament next Thursday at the latest. Is that even possible?
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
2/3 of the House voting to dissolve, thus avoiding the 14 days?
Good point, but see my post above about next Thursday.
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
On the contrary, I think this is a rare displd you do?"
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
what do you think has been going on for the last 20 years. Manufacturing in the UK has been butchered and Brexit is simply the result,
HP Sauce, Cadburys. Bendinck mints, Twinings, PSA Ryton, Ford Southampton, Ford Dagenham just off the top of my head - all closed and work transferred to Europe.
Out in the provinces UK workers have been serially shafted and nobody gave a toss. Now that theyve got uppity suddenly everyones concerned, Crocodile tears.
The time to worry about closures was 2000 and after and nobody did.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's support
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.
But it isn't a shocker. It may defy precedent, but the Speaker is an absolute Monarch w.r.t. Parliamentary procedures. His Word is Law. And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it. *Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
About that labour recovery in Scotland Justin keeps claiming
Just had a tweet from the Daily Post (North Wales news) that the Scottish labour party have been called out for releasing a promotional video featuring scenes filmed in ..........Wales
The video for social media shows Richard Leonard discussing labour's vision for Scotland
It says 'our Country is run by an elite few. It belongs to all of us. Watch and share the three minute 'Vision for Scotland' promotion featuring clips of Scottish scenery, families and businesses'
At 1.25 mins in the camera pans out to a striking shot of a mountain range ........ Tryfan in the Snowdonia National Park
Scotland has magnificient mountains and scenery - maybe next time film in Scotland
As someone unkindly but accurately pointed out, Labour's vision for Scotland is what they're doing in Wales.
Still think No Deal *is* more dangerous to us than the EU27.. just on a numbers/size game. (Basically, a lot more consumers to soak up any displaced trade within the 27 then there are for us). I'm willing to accept most on both sides are reasonably keen to avoid it, but I'm guessing some of their red lines may end up redder than ours.
At a more basic level than the dealing and brinkmanship, the truth of 'taking it off the table', oft-stated on these pages, is that *she can't*. Or rather she can only do so by a majority of the HoC voting positively in favour of something else. Which is where Corbyn's stance falls down for me, as he has influence over a reasonable chunk of them.
On the question of platforms in any snap election.. my guess is both front benches will sit pretty much where they are, Lab petrified of a WWC backlash, Tories holding the line between crash and remain, both scared of being branded hypocritical. Essentially a Deal v Deal+Unicorns referendum, plus a question of whose whips you trust most to get their lot through the lobby (albeit a week after being elected on that platform).
But it'll be a lottery, with unknown numbers of voters peeling off. I can see the LibDems picking some up (more time elapsed since student loans; vote of last resort for centrist remainers who see the clock ticking and think the others will screw it up). But they'll be limited by their current scale and invisibility. I think UKIP are dead.. but I can see several dozen committed Faragists - including him, Suzanne Evans and one or two other recognisable ones - taking the fight to key constituencies to make a point. They may pick up one or two, but disrupt the balance in many more.
Does it really take a month to teach 16 year olds how to surrender?
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
It's possible - if she decides that No Deal would be really bad, she can revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit. It would be suicidal in the Tory party, but she might accept an instruction from Parliament (with the implication of a VONC if she refuses).
I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
"Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes." - P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.
"Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either."" - David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
"Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates."" - Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
So - three people, who were each given majority power by a minority of the vote, defended the system that gave them that power?
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.
Sorry, should always check before hyperventilating.
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.
The answer is you negotiate.
There are some indications Countries in the EU are waking up to the default nature of A50's no deal and are getting very worried
As the days pass and no deal remains the likelihood of compromise increases. Take no deal off the table and that is extinguished at a stroke, playing into EU and remainers hands
See Italy broke ranks today telling the EU to negotiate.
Across in Canada my daughter in law, who works in tourism for BC, has said the Canadian shot by the Chinese has not died but Canada - China diplomatic relationship heats up by the day and is not looking good.
She has been stopped from all promotional tours to China which accounted for a lot of her work and BC tourism and China is 'high risk' for any Canadians intending visiting it
Who would have thought Canada would be involved in a major dispute with China
"What also sticks in the gullet is that Cooper Tires constructed a purpose-built factory in Serbia, where labour costs are much cheaper than the UK, which is now going to take on the work from Melksham.
“What adds insult to injury is that our members went over to Serbia to train the workers there in production techniques – and now they have lost their jobs to them."
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
Self harm isn't a card. Surely?
It's not irrational to be prepared to pay a price to stand up for your principles. The problem comes when you miscalculate the price and misapprehend your principles.
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's support
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.
But it isn't a shocker. It may defy precedent, but the Speaker is an absolute Monarch w.r.t. Parliamentary procedures. His Word is Law. And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it. *Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.
And me: "House of Unelected Has-Beens".
Fair enough. There are precious few anywhere to be found in Parliament. All is perfect in UK politics but for the influence of the EU. Then bitch and moan when someone uses our ludicrous and outdated Constitution against them.
re lab reacting to a GE by offering a referendum in the manifesto.
I did dismiss your post (a GE offering a ref? Why not just say what you want and do it? Brenda from bristol reaction.. etc)
But thinking more about it... Labour could use Brexit as a bribe for their real agenda quite successfully.....
Something like: Vote Lab and we'll hold an immediate referendum, offering;
A ) No Deal Brexit. Extend A50 for 12 months & throw £100bn at no deal preps B ) Remain. Spend the £100bn on social housing / social care / Laboury stuff.
Money from borrowing and moderate tax increases.
Corbyn will implement the result, as advised by the British people.
Could work to unite lab factions & win back the WWC Brexit heartlands?
I think you are right. I don't see how Corbyn offering a referendum harms him, particularly if May holds to an unpopular deal. It would be hard for leavers to paint Corbyn as a remainer if he is offering a referendum on a harder brexit than May is offering, but he is also giving remainers the chance to overturn the vote if they can get the numbers. Meanwhile May clings to her deal which even most of her own party won't support.
I firmly believe that all Corbyn needs to reach Number 10 is for May to call another snap election "to get the people to endorse her deal" and for Corbyn to pivot to a second referendum on the first day of campaigning.
The reason why he does not endorse a second referendum now is not because he wants to leave (although he probably does), it is because he is hoping May will walk directly into this enormous bear trap.
I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
"Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes." - P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.
"Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either."" - David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
"Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates."" - Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
So - three people, who were each given majority power by a minority of the vote, defended the system that gave them that power?
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?
I think you're right and the New Statesman is wrong.
Thank you, but see the points others have raised about a 2/3rds vote overriding the 14 days. However, even given that it's a bit tight. As in Parliament would have to dissolve next Thursday?
Comments
Of course my position is TM deal or similar or remain
So party A1 and A2 would still get candidates elected even on just 6% each
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general
But Northerners aren't usually found in Manchester or Sheffield. They are at least 100 miles further North.
She is being paid to execute a job that has significant responsibility and kudos. Literally hundreds of other people could as competently make the decisions she has made. She is a victim of her own inability to communicate at a level usually associated with the job. Her management skills might be worthy of the office she leads but overall, her judgement and her communication to the country have been found wanting.
The only thing that keeps her in office is the alternative or rather the fear of something even worse. That said, in the same poll it asked who would be the best PM: May or Corbyn - I chose May!
Nothing has gone right for him since the Brexit result. He could have quite passionately argued for either cause. He did a calculation that glorious defeat in a Brexit referendum sets him to be the next PM. Hmm. Didn’t quite go well.
And by the way, I am 100% opposed to no deal
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
We need to keep pointing a massive bazooka at our own head until the EU sees sense.
Plus about 500 to 550 MPs back either Remain or the Deal and barely more than 100 at most back No Deal even though almost a third of the voters back No Deal as their first preference
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.
Bye bye, baby.......
Who knows.....
(Thanks for replying though - sort of interesting how we mostly hate our political opponents, but sometimes we don't - we just disagree.)
@Benpointer I wish to clarify that I do, occasionally, a MaccyD although I prefer both Burger King and Five Guys. I also eat at Fullers pubs in preference to Wetherspoons.
@FrancisUrquhart boxed wine is great when you only have the occasional glass. I only bring out the good stuff when I the company of people who will appreciate it
I am, after all, a man of the people
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
No offense I just can’t see you sitting down on a chilly Friday night and cracking open the 3l box of vinegar tasting white wine.
The truth is it’s on the table pointing at both sides.
Those who come off worse if it goes off we can agree is us? It’s genuinely debatable but most fact checkers point to that?
But what we are agreeing is, it’s not who will come off worse when it goes off who wants it off the table but those left in weaker position once it’s off the table who most want it to stay there. Is that the honest truth with it?
https://twitter.com/TerryReintke/status/1075794829878198274
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46917382
But they're taking jobs to Serbia I thought.
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-to-send-all-16-year-olds-on-a-month-s-national-service-7rw5g3fx8
And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it.
*Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.
HP Sauce, Cadburys. Bendinck mints, Twinings, PSA Ryton, Ford Southampton, Ford Dagenham just off the top of my head - all closed and work transferred to Europe.
Out in the provinces UK workers have been serially shafted and nobody gave a toss. Now that theyve got uppity suddenly everyones concerned, Crocodile tears.
The time to worry about closures was 2000 and after and nobody did.
Still think No Deal *is* more dangerous to us than the EU27.. just on a numbers/size game. (Basically, a lot more consumers to soak up any displaced trade within the 27 then there are for us). I'm willing to accept most on both sides are reasonably keen to avoid it, but I'm guessing some of their red lines may end up redder than ours.
At a more basic level than the dealing and brinkmanship, the truth of 'taking it off the table', oft-stated on these pages, is that *she can't*. Or rather she can only do so by a majority of the HoC voting positively in favour of something else. Which is where Corbyn's stance falls down for me, as he has influence over a reasonable chunk of them.
On the question of platforms in any snap election.. my guess is both front benches will sit pretty much where they are, Lab petrified of a WWC backlash, Tories holding the line between crash and remain, both scared of being branded hypocritical. Essentially a Deal v Deal+Unicorns referendum, plus a question of whose whips you trust most to get their lot through the lobby (albeit a week after being elected on that platform).
But it'll be a lottery, with unknown numbers of voters peeling off. I can see the LibDems picking some up (more time elapsed since student loans; vote of last resort for centrist remainers who see the clock ticking and think the others will screw it up). But they'll be limited by their current scale and invisibility. I think UKIP are dead.. but I can see several dozen committed Faragists - including him, Suzanne Evans and one or two other recognisable ones - taking the fight to key constituencies to make a point. They may pick up one or two, but disrupt the balance in many more.
There are some indications Countries in the EU are waking up to the default nature of A50's no deal and are getting very worried
As the days pass and no deal remains the likelihood of compromise increases. Take no deal off the table and that is extinguished at a stroke, playing into EU and remainers hands
See Italy broke ranks today telling the EU to negotiate.
Across in Canada my daughter in law, who works in tourism for BC, has said the Canadian shot by the Chinese has not died but Canada - China diplomatic relationship heats up by the day and is not looking good.
She has been stopped from all promotional tours to China which accounted for a lot of her work and BC tourism and China is 'high risk' for any Canadians intending visiting it
Who would have thought Canada would be involved in a major dispute with China
“What adds insult to injury is that our members went over to Serbia to train the workers there in production techniques – and now they have lost their jobs to them."
Then bitch and moan when someone uses our ludicrous and outdated Constitution against them.
I firmly believe that all Corbyn needs to reach Number 10 is for May to call another snap election "to get the people to endorse her deal" and for Corbyn to pivot to a second referendum on the first day of campaigning.
The reason why he does not endorse a second referendum now is not because he wants to leave (although he probably does), it is because he is hoping May will walk directly into this enormous bear trap.