Remainers seem angry that a deal might be in the air...
I thought a deal would be reached but now I feel Parliament has destroyed any hope of that.
Any rumours of deals in the air I won't hold my breath over. Until something is confirmed, best to believe that "nothing has changed".
She needs all the votes she got the last time + 116. I don't think the ERG can provide that even if they were so minded (and they are frequently of more than one mind).
ERG alone can't.
ERG + DUP can get it very close.
If it gets that close there must be at least a few opposition MPs prepared to put the national interest ahead of partisan politics and see this over the line.
How many Con MPs would vote against the deal now the Tiggers have left ? Ken Clarke and Grieve ?
Clarke voted for the deal
Yes, if the deal looks like going through then I expect Clark and Grieve to do their duty one last time before announcing they won't be standing again at the coming (2019) election.
Aw, Clarke only needs 1 more year to get to 50 as an MP, can't they at least hold on until 2020?
Does Cox want the top job? If he pulls this off, surely he’s worth a punt?
I think that would be fair comment. I would think the Tory members would still want someone more red blooded to set the right tone for the next phase than the man who brokered the last minute compromise wot won it, but if there is a deal (which, naturally, I doubt) his intervention will have been critical, and it would seem very reasonable that he gets floated as a candidate.
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
Yes. I will regret that the EU was so intransigent with Cameron that it came to this.
Will anyone in the EU regret that?
Cameron was too arrogant . He could have delivered a Remain win by enforcing current FOM restrictions , setting up a registration system like most EU countries , bringing back the migrant impact fund and bringing legislation in to stop undercutting of wages . These combined would have done enough to get Remain over the line . He also ran a crap and negative ref campaign . And no the EU couldn’t trash its own FOM rules to appease the UK which was the only country obsessed with other Europeans moving around . Other EU countries main problem is with non EU migration not other EU nationals.
Does Cox want the top job? If he pulls this off, surely he’s worth a punt?
I think that would be fair comment. I would think the Tory members would still want someone more red blooded to set the right tone for the next phase than the man who brokered the last minute compromise wot won it, but if there is a deal (which, naturally, I doubt) his intervention will have been critical, and it would seem very reasonable that he gets floated as a candidate.
This trip to Srasbourg had better be a carefully choroegraphed theatre where a deal worked out well in advance is produced to make it look like May has won at the last minute. If she comes back empty handed we might as well paint her arse green and use her as a traffic light.
Red, surely? She'll have stopped Brexit.
Although perhaps red green and amber in a kaleidoscope pattern would best reflect the utter confusion we're in.
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
Yes. I will regret that the EU was so intransigent with Cameron that it came to this.
Will anyone in the EU regret that?
Cameron was too arrogant . He could have delivered a Remain win by enforcing current FOM restrictions , setting up a registration system like most EU countries , bringing back the migrant impact fund and bringing legislation in to stop undercutting of wages . These combined would have done enough to get Remain over the line . He also ran a crap and negative ref campaign . And no the EU couldn’t trash its own FOM rules to appease the UK which was the only country obsessed with other Europeans moving around . Other EU countries main problem is with non EU migration not other EU nationals.
To do that he needed to switch from a Needs based benefits system to a contribution based benefits system. Even if you picked the easiest possible system (2 years NI required, attendence at School/ Education from 16-18 enough to qualify) it was beyond the ability of any Tory government to deliver it.
As I've stated on many occassions this entire mess dates back to Labour's failure to fix this issue back in 2006 when it was first discovered.
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
Yes. I will regret that the EU was so intransigent with Cameron that it came to this.
Will anyone in the EU regret that?
Arguably the EU offered Cameron a reasonable proportion of his objectives.
In retrospect his laser-like focus on benefits seems completely misplaced in that it cost a lot of political capital and was essentially pointless in both public policy and political perception terms.
I was going to say he's lost it, but he never had it I am sure. What a pile of old wank that statement is; there are many and varied reasons to think the deal is bad, that is not one of them.
There’s a very big constituency of Leave voters now who favour No Deal under any and all circumstances. Many (most) have moved there based on what they think the Deal must be saying, rather than what it actually says.
These are the people for whom Francois is a hero, and to whom he’s pandering.
I was going to say he's lost it, but he never had it I am sure. What a pile of old wank that statement is; there are many and varied reasons to think the deal is bad, that is not one of them.
There’s a very big constituency of Leave voters now who favour No Deal under any and all circumstances. Many (most) have moved there based on what they think the Deal must be saying, rather than what it actually says.
These are the people for whom Francois is a hero, and to whom he’s pandering.
I was going to say he's lost it, but he never had it I am sure. What a pile of old wank that statement is; there are many and varied reasons to think the deal is bad, that is not one of them.
There’s a very big constituency of Leave voters now who favour No Deal under any and all circumstances. Many (most) have moved there based on what they think the Deal must be saying, rather than what it actually says.
These are the people for whom Francois is a hero, and to whom he’s pandering.
I get no deal is popular with some, and seen as better than the deal by some. I don't get pretending that the deal is remaining.
I was going to say he's lost it, but he never had it I am sure. What a pile of old wank that statement is; there are many and varied reasons to think the deal is bad, that is not one of them.
There’s a very big constituency of Leave voters now who favour No Deal under any and all circumstances. Many (most) have moved there based on what they think the Deal must be saying, rather than what it actually says.
These are the people for whom Francois is a hero, and to whom he’s pandering.
There are people to whom Tommy Robinson is a hero too.
Looks like May’s off to Strasbourg to give the ERG a fig leaf for caving. Could we finally see a deal done and signed off?
Anything is possible, but if a fig leaf was likely to achieve that we'd have had it by now. Ok this is last minute, but previous instances were also pretty last minute and delayed past the point we were told were last minute.
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich haven't been affected by migration the other way pulling down wages at the lower end, increasing competition for the housing supply (actually - as home owners, they get richer off that) or competition for public health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
Looks like May’s off to Strasbourg to give the ERG a fig leaf for caving. Could we finally see a deal done and signed off?
Anything is possible, but if a fig leaf was likely to achieve that we'd have had it by now. Ok this is last minute, but previous instances were also pretty last minute and delayed past the point we were told were last minute.
A lot of them are desperate for a way out. There are 20 or so irreconcilables, but the rest should be fine. We’ll leave and then the real fun begins.
I wonder if any of you who so confidently put out your opinions about flights post Brexit and the insurance market's ability to do business will be at the lunchtime presentation regarding flights post brexit ?
I was going to say he's lost it, but he never had it I am sure. What a pile of old wank that statement is; there are many and varied reasons to think the deal is bad, that is not one of them.
There’s a very big constituency of Leave voters now who favour No Deal under any and all circumstances. Many (most) have moved there based on what they think the Deal must be saying, rather than what it actually says.
These are the people for whom Francois is a hero, and to whom he’s pandering.
I get no deal is popular with some, and seen as better than the deal by some. I don't get pretending that the deal is remaining.
It makes for a easy sell that panders to people’s prejudices.
Why is this a blessing,what have you actually won with him ;-)
it's a fair point but these remain halcyon days compared to the rest of the Premier League's history and achieved with no new players for 2 transfer windows with players being paid a fraction of what they'd get (or sadly likely will get) elsewhere. Poch has his faults but it's been a blast.
Importers can now apply for tickets for the emergency no deal ferries . The products have to be on the critical list though . These are the ones critical for human and animal welfare .
19:26 An emergency meeting of Irish cabinet ministers has been called for 7pm, a government source has confirmed to the Press Association.
The Irish premier Leo Varadkar, who was due to begin his journey to America for St Patrick’s Day, returned from Dublin airport and is currently in government buildings for the cabinet briefing.
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich haven't been affected by migration the other way pulling down wages at the lower end, increasing competition for the housing supply (actually - as home owners, they get richer off that) or competition for public health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
So when do you expect rents and homes to get cheaper after we’ve left? Why do you think most young people voted Remain?
More faux drama for the plebs to believe May is battling for Britain .
The deals been done already . May isn’t going to come back empty handed . There’s no unilateral exit or end date this deal is around the arbitration panel and some extra legal assurances via a joint interpretative instrument .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich haven't been affected by migration the other way pulling down wages at the lower end, increasing competition for the housing supply (actually - as home owners, they get richer off that) or competition for public health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
The way Prosecco populists parade their phoney concern for the poor to push their ideological hobby-horses is so distasteful.
19:26 An emergency meeting of Irish cabinet ministers has been called for 7pm, a government source has confirmed to the Press Association.
The Irish premier Leo Varadkar, who was due to begin his journey to America for St Patrick’s Day, returned from Dublin airport and is currently in government buildings for the cabinet briefing.
St. Patrick's Day isn't until Sunday? What on Earth does he do in USA all those days?
Does Cox want the top job? If he pulls this off, surely he’s worth a punt?
A foxhunting PM ? That would have almond milk lattes splattering over i-Macs the length and breadth of Islington.
Opposition to fox hunting goes a little further than Islington I think you will find.
We had a fox hunting PM less than three years ago.
Not sure what that proves? Wasn't mentioning fox-hunting in the last manifestos deemed to be one of the big mistakes along with the so-called "dementia tax"?
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
So, basically we will stay with the backstop until a final deal with the EU is agreed, but we’ll be able to pretend we won’t have to. I guess if that’s what it takes for the DUP and ERG to blink that’s what it takes.
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
Regulatory and customs divergence between Northern Ireland and Ireland is a restriction on cross-border trade, so your conditions mean we would stay in the single market and customs union.
19:26 An emergency meeting of Irish cabinet ministers has been called for 7pm, a government source has confirmed to the Press Association.
The Irish premier Leo Varadkar, who was due to begin his journey to America for St Patrick’s Day, returned from Dublin airport and is currently in government buildings for the cabinet briefing.
St. Patrick's Day isn't until Sunday? What on Earth does he do in USA all those days?
I'm just baffled by why it has become a tradition for Irish politicians to feck off and leave Ireland for St Patrick's Day.
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
You want no regulatory diverge between ROI and NI and then no divergence between NI and rUK?
It's just not possible, unless the UK is bound to EU free market rules.
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
I want the deal to go through as the UK will still be in transition in 2021 and by that time there’s a chance we could end up with Norway plus as that’s the only way to avoid the backstop . This will be totallly humiliating for the ERG nutjobs .
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich haven't been affected by migration the other way pulling down wages at the lower end, increasing competition for the housing supply (actually - as home owners, they get richer off that) or competition for public health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
So when do you expect rents and homes to get cheaper after we’ve left? Why do you think most young people voted Remain?
The chair of the the BSE campaign, Stuart Rose, is on record as stating he believed wages would rise for low skilled workers as a direct result of Brexit.
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
Regulatory and customs divergence between Northern Ireland and Ireland are a restriction on cross-border trade, so your conditions mean we would stay in the single market and customs union.
Who says so? It’s the EU who are imposing the divergence. We could waive any extra tariffs etc and say our side of the border will continue to operate as is. Surely is is our sovereign choice as to how we police our border?
If the EU want to do things differently on their side then that’s up to them. They can order Ireland to do as they say.
As enough brexiteers such as David Davis indicated he wants to support the deal and explained privately to May what he needs to save face, what you describe here is all about 120 of them need. This 120 will be joined by 30+ Labour MPs tomorrow as May’s withdraw agreement looks set to pass comfortably.
If bets on leaving specified end of March (I know at least one poster up to their balls in such a bet) they are still on in my opinion as needing a few extra weeks to pass the legal formalities might not be needed, the financial side of things dont kick in till 18th April so finance legislation cant hold up brexit partying at end of th month.
Anyone excited by leaving should Start thinking about how to celebrate tomark the occasion.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich haven't been affected by migration the other way pulling down wages at the lower end, increasing competition for the housing supply (actually - as home owners, they get richer off that) or competition for public health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
So when do you expect rents and homes to get cheaper after we’ve left? Why do you think most young people voted Remain?
The chair of the the BSE campaign, Stuart Rose, is on record as stating he believed wages would rise for low skilled workers as a direct result of Brexit.
I want the deal to go through as the UK will still be in transition in 2021 and by that time there’s a chance we could end up with Norway plus as that’s the only way to avoid the backstop . This will be totallly humiliating for the ERG nutjobs .
If the ERG back down and the deal somehow gets through, I can foresee a backlash the day after Brexit when the only thing that changes is that we give up our representation, but nothing else.
That idea about a protocol reaffirming the Good Friday agreement seems to come close to asserting that the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish government should have the power to determine whether we can withdraw from the backstop!
I want the deal to go through as the UK will still be in transition in 2021 and by that time there’s a chance we could end up with Norway plus as that’s the only way to avoid the backstop . This will be totallly humiliating for the ERG nutjobs .
If the ERG back down and the deal somehow gets through, I can foresee a backlash the day after Brexit when the only thing that changes is that we give up our representation, but nothing else changes.
For Remainers we only have humiliation of the ERG to help self soothe . So if the UK turns into a vassal state it’s an awful irony after all the take back control guff .
That is because you asked a hypothetical question.
What we can do with definiteness is look back on the past 10 or 15 years and inquire which EU policies made it cheaper for young people to rent or buy?
Why don't you answer that question?
We are leaving because those who benefitted from the EU (the monied and the affluent) refused to share the proceeds or benefits of EU membership with the rest of the population through, for example, higher taxation.
Remainer selfishness and greed. That is why we are leaving.
I want the deal to go through as the UK will still be in transition in 2021 and by that time there’s a chance we could end up with Norway plus as that’s the only way to avoid the backstop . This will be totallly humiliating for the ERG nutjobs .
If the ERG back down and the deal somehow gets through, I can foresee a backlash the day after Brexit when the only thing that changes is that we give up our representation, but nothing else.
So, basically we will stay with the backstop until a final deal with the EU is agreed, but we’ll be able to pretend we won’t have to. I guess if that’s what it takes for the DUP and ERG to blink that’s what it takes.
Pretending things are so without them really being so may have gotten us into this mess, but one would hope it would also get us out of it, for a time at least.
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
You want no regulatory diverge between ROI and NI and then no divergence between NI and rUK?
It's just not possible, unless the UK is bound to EU free market rules.
What I’m arguing (incoherently 😂, as usual) is surely we reserve the right to sit on our hands, say we won’t build any walls or new border infrastructure, and make it an EU problem not a British one. As it stands it’s all being framed as a UK problem when it won’t be us that ever builds a border?
9.59pm I'd guess for the former - their righteous belief system means they already know it won't be acceptable to them without having to read anything.
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
Regulatory and customs divergence between Northern Ireland and Ireland are a restriction on cross-border trade, so your conditions mean we would stay in the single market and customs union.
Who says so? It’s the EU who are imposing the divergence. We could waive any extra tariffs etc and say our side of the border will continue to operate as is. Surely is is our sovereign choice as to how we police our border?
If the EU want to do things differently on their side then that’s up to them. They can order Ireland to do as they say.
We're the ones who want the divergence, because we're the ones that want to make our own laws.
That means goods manufactured in the UK, which are legal for sale here but not legal for sale in the common market, would need to be checked at the border. Or, at the very elast, some point before the border (which is a MaxFac sort of idea).
19:26 An emergency meeting of Irish cabinet ministers has been called for 7pm, a government source has confirmed to the Press Association.
The Irish premier Leo Varadkar, who was due to begin his journey to America for St Patrick’s Day, returned from Dublin airport and is currently in government buildings for the cabinet briefing.
19:26 An emergency meeting of Irish cabinet ministers has been called for 7pm, a government source has confirmed to the Press Association.
The Irish premier Leo Varadkar, who was due to begin his journey to America for St Patrick’s Day, returned from Dublin airport and is currently in government buildings for the cabinet briefing.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich haven't been affected by migration the other way pulling down wages at the lower end, increasing competition for the housing supply (actually - as home owners, they get richer off that) or competition for public health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
So when do you expect rents and homes to get cheaper after we’ve left? Why do you think most young people voted Remain?
The chair of the the BSE campaign, Stuart Rose, is on record as stating he believed wages would rise for low skilled workers as a direct result of Brexit.
BSE? More like foot in mouth...
That’s not what I asked.
It is quite logical to assume that if a decrease in supply of foreign workers leads to an increase in wages for the low skilled, that same decrease in supply would lead to a reduced demand for housing and public health services.
My original point was that the rich (yes, myself included, Mr William Glenn) will most likely be fine either way.
But for all their alleged thickie-thickness, I think the less well off people who voted for Brexit can grasp the concept of supply and demand. Probably because they have real life experience of their wages being suppressed year after year after year.
There is an argument to be made that we should have made an attempt to ensure supply (of housing, health services etc) kept pace with demand. But I'm not seeing it from you. Only a wishy washy promise that you can always move and get a job in Spain.
The remainers are the 2019 equivalent of Norman Tebbit telling poor people to get on their bike.
Celebrating . What the end of a 45 year relationship and the end of freedom of movement for many who will no longer have that chance . I’ll be staying well away from the coverage . Seeing the flag lowered and removed from the EU Parliament will be very sad. Will any Leavers at that point have a tinge of regret .
If they haven't already broken down after hearing from Roger and SO about how rich retirees are going to find it a bit harder to relocate to Spain, they must have hearts of stone
Why will it prevent rich retirees? It will prevent anyone who lacks a pension income of €30,000 a year or €500,000 to buy a property. And it will prevent all the young people who currently go down and work for the cost of an air fare. But the rich will be fine. Brexit won’t affect them.
Sorta like how the rich health services, then.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
So when do you Remain?
The chair ofresult of Brexit.
BSE? More like foot in mouth...
That’s not what I asked.
It is quite logical to assume that if a decrease in supply of foreign workers leads to an increase in wages for the low skilled, that same decrease in supply would lead to a reduced demand for housing and public health services.
My original point was that the rich (yes, myself included, Mr William Glenn) will most likely be fine either way.
But for all their alleged thickie-thickness, I think the less well off people who voted for Brexit can grasp the concept of supply and demand. Probably because they have real life experience of their wages being suppressed year after year after year.
There is an argument to be made that we should have made an attempt to ensure supply (of housing, health services etc) kept pace with demand. But I'm not seeing it from you. Only a wishy washy promise that you can always move and get a job in Spain.
The remainers are the 2019 equivalent of Norman Tebbit telling poor people to get on their bike.
Let them eat cake.
Some less well off people voted Leave, others voted Remain, many did not vote at all. But you were talking about young people specifically in your original post. Why do you think they voted Remain if they did not want to keep FoM?
Any country can break a Treaty . But of course if the UK ditched the backstop before alternative arrangements are ready then the EU won’t finalize a trade deal . And the UKs reputation will be trashed even more than it already is after the last two years .
I know May is pretty crap at PR politics but I don’t understand why she hasn’t made three things crystal clear on the Irish border situation:
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply. - the UK respects in full the GFA. - the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
Regulatory and customs divergence between Northern Ireland and Ireland are a restriction on cross-border trade, so your conditions mean we would stay in the single market and customs union.
Who says so? It’s the EU who are imposing the divergence. We could waive any extra tariffs etc and say our side of the border will continue to operate as is. Surely is is our sovereign choice as to how we police our border?
If the EU want to do things differently on their side then that’s up to them. They can order Ireland to do as they say.
We're the ones who want the divergence, because we're the ones that want to make our own laws.
That means goods manufactured in the UK, which are legal for sale here but not legal for sale in the common market, would need to be checked at the border. Or, at the very elast, some point before the border (which is a MaxFac sort of idea).
Yes, so in very basic terms, we would be sending lorries into Ireland and the Ireland would be stopping them, not us. In return, we can remain happy for Ireland’s lorries to enter our territory without checks. So it’s for them to build a border, not us.
Comments
My guess is MV2 will fail, but be close enough that short extension +MV3 will get us over the line.
It's still Boris according to the punters.
Although perhaps red green and amber in a kaleidoscope pattern would best reflect the utter confusion we're in.
As I've stated on many occassions this entire mess dates back to Labour's failure to fix this issue back in 2006 when it was first discovered.
In retrospect his laser-like focus on benefits seems completely misplaced in that it cost a lot of political capital and was essentially pointless in both public policy and political perception terms.
Cammo was too arrogant but it reflected the Remainers' views. Even when they lost, they refused to believe it. That's why things have become strained.
And you're right, the wound was self-inflicted.
These are the people for whom Francois is a hero, and to whom he’s pandering.
My God, this country is screwed.
#CorbynsCustomsUnion
It was great to see Marf back again on the previous thread.
But hey, 21 year old Brit who will never get a mortgage to buy a shoebox in the UK. Remainers want you to know they will always be behind your right to become a waiter in Spain.
3 meetings culminating in a client presentation.
I wonder if any of you who so confidently put out your opinions about flights post Brexit and the insurance market's ability to do business will be at the lunchtime presentation regarding flights post brexit ?
That’s all that matters in politics sometimes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Premier_League_seasons
Shooting themselves in the foot, and accidentally ensuring Brexit never happens.
19:26
An emergency meeting of Irish cabinet ministers has been called for 7pm, a
government source has confirmed to the Press Association.
The Irish premier Leo Varadkar, who was due to begin his journey to America
for St Patrick’s Day, returned from Dublin airport and is currently in government buildings for the cabinet briefing.
Something must be cooking
I've not really had the time to play it this year.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1105189226256179200
Preferably accompanied by Geoffrey Cox and Michael Gove dressed as Batman and Robin.
Probably with some cream, somewhere.....
- that the NI is part of the UK and the exact same rules as the mainland MUST apply.
- the UK respects in full the GFA.
- the UK will not build any physical border or put in place any extra restrictions to cross border trade.
It should be easy for her to make the physical border an EU problem not a UK one. It would be an easy shift of the problem if she made one icy, emphatic speech daring the EU to build a border.
What’s the difficulty with that? From a neutral standpoint it seems an obvious chess move.
It's just not possible, unless the UK is bound to EU free market rules.
BSE? More like foot in mouth...
If the EU want to do things differently on their side then that’s up to them. They can order Ireland to do as they say.
What we can do with definiteness is look back on the past 10 or 15 years and inquire which EU policies made it cheaper for young people to rent or buy?
Why don't you answer that question?
We are leaving because those who benefitted from the EU (the monied and the affluent) refused to share the proceeds or benefits of EU membership with the rest of the population through, for example, higher taxation.
Remainer selfishness and greed. That is why we are leaving.
That means goods manufactured in the UK, which are legal for sale here but not legal for sale in the common market, would need to be checked at the border. Or, at the very elast, some point before the border (which is a MaxFac sort of idea).
My original point was that the rich (yes, myself included, Mr William Glenn) will most likely be fine either way.
But for all their alleged thickie-thickness, I think the less well off people who voted for Brexit can grasp the concept of supply and demand. Probably because they have real life experience of their wages being suppressed year after year after year.
There is an argument to be made that we should have made an attempt to ensure supply (of housing, health services etc) kept pace with demand. But I'm not seeing it from you. Only a wishy washy promise that you can always move and get a job in Spain.
The remainers are the 2019 equivalent of Norman Tebbit telling poor people to get on their bike.
Let them eat cake.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1105196781619630080?s=21
(Sorry)
Any country can break a Treaty . But of course if the UK ditched the backstop before alternative arrangements are ready then the EU won’t finalize a trade deal . And the UKs reputation will be trashed even more than it already is after the last two years .