we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Labour proposed four new bank holidays, one for each nation's patron saint, in their 2017 manifesto.
yes, but as I read the tweet, this is now only for St Pat.
You probably misunderstood the tweet, which is Labour's chief tweeter's fault, aided and abetted by the good professor playing silly people. It was sent on St Patrick's Day so that is the context. Labour's policy seems to be a bank holiday for each country.
OK. thanks for the clarification. Id be happy with the Lab manifesto approiach personally.
Ireland has just lost the one large country that thinks like it does, free trade, open markets, atlanticist to a point.
Why do you talk in the past tense about things that haven't happened yet, and how has the way Ireland has handled Brexit made your laundry list of bad things any worse for them?
Ireland has just lost the one large country that thinks like it does, free trade, open markets, atlanticist to a point. A similar issue faces other small European countries like the Scandies. There is no longer someone to be the bad guy on blocking protectionism and centralism. ireland will probably see this first commission moves to equalise tax. Thats why I say beck and call since for a lot of the small states finding a modus vivendi with german hegemony is all they can do. Im just finishing off Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis and even allowing for " well he would say that wouldnt he ", the observations on how the EU is run are gobsmacking in places.
On the peace issue I said over a year ago there was no benefit for anyone in stirring up the North. Varadkar went ahead anyhow to gain a short term electoral advantage which he then failed to expolit. All he has achieved is to put inter irish relations back 20 years. No doubt hell eventually waltz off to some job in Brussels but someone else will have to tidy up his shit and the ordinary joes just pay the price of his career ambitions. Boris O'johnson.
What did he do to "stir up the north"?
weaponising the whole border issue
but weve been through this several times as you know, so I'm taking the question as an early morning troll
ha no wasn't meant to be - weaponising the border ignores the fact that the border would have to have been addressed. Don't shoot the messenger. It's not as though no one would have noticed it (and of course there is the whole wanting a united ireland thing).
of course the border would have to be addressed and LVs predecessor had set up a mechanism to do so, LV decided to take a different approach. As for the UI thing the south has always had an Augustinian approach to it.
So as leader of a minority coalition government he single-handedly changed the Irish state's approach to such an existential issue?
Ireland has just lost the one large country that thinks like it does, free trade, open markets, atlanticist to a point. A similar issue faces other small European countries like the Scandies. There is no longer someone to be the bad guy on blocking protectionism and centralism. ireland will probably see this first commission moves to equalise tax. Thats why I say beck and call since for a lot of the small states finding a modus vivendi with german hegemony is all they can do. Im just finishing off Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis and even allowing for " well he would say that wouldnt he ", the observations on how the EU is run are gobsmacking in places.
On the peace issue I said over a year ago there was no benefit for anyone in stirring up the North. Varadkar went ahead anyhow to gain a short term electoral advantage which he then failed to expolit. All he has achieved is to put inter irish relations back 20 years. No doubt hell eventually waltz off to some job in Brussels but someone else will have to tidy up his shit and the ordinary joes just pay the price of his career ambitions. Boris O'johnson.
What did he do to "stir up the north"?
weaponising the whole border issue
but weve been through this several times as you know, so I'm taking the question as an early morning troll
ha no wasn't meant to be - weaponising the border ignores the fact that the border would have to have been addressed. Don't shoot the messenger. It's not as though no one would have noticed it (and of course there is the whole wanting a united ireland thing).
of course the border would have to be addressed and LVs predecessor had set up a mechanism to do so, LV decided to take a different approach. As for the UI thing the south has always had an Augustinian approach to it.
So as leader of a minority coalition government he single-handedly changed the Irish state's approach to such an existential issue?
His predecssor was the leader of a minority government and was happy enough to take a more pragmatic approach.
For those that are interested, here are 37 Conservative MPs who I currently expect to vote against any revival of the meaningful vote (the first 31 are ERGonauts, the next six are from the Remain wing of the party):
Adam Afriyie (Windsor) Lucy Allan (Telford) Steve Baker (Wycombe) Crispin Blunt (Reigate) Peter Bone (Wellingborough) Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) Christopher Chope (Christchurch) Richard Drax (South Dorset) James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) Chris Green (Bolton West) Philip Hollobone (Kettering) Adam Holloway (Gravesham) Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood) Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) David Jones (Clwyd West) Julian Lewis (New Forest East) Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) Priti Patel (Witham) Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) John Redwood (Wokingham) Andrew Rosindell (Romford) Henry Smith (Crawley) Royston Smith (Southampton Itchen) Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed)
Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) Justine Greening (Putney) Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) Joseph Johnson (Orpington) Phillip Lee (Bracknell)
Notable omissions include Bill Cash, John Baron, Dominic Raab and Bernard Jenkin, all of whom have been quiet recently so far as I can tell.
Has anyone ever noticed before the interesting regional dynamics of this all based around the M3-M4-M40 corridors? In the middle you have Theresa May's constituency of Maidenhead. Surrounding it you have Steve Baker (High Wycombe), Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield), Adam Afryie (Windsor), Philip Lee (Bracknell) and John Redwood (Wokingham). Is it so common to find such extremists at either end of the Brexit spectrum in such a small geographical area?
A few thoughts - first, and you might find this strange, I think all public holidays should be abolished. The days should be added to a worker's leave entitlement and they should be able to decide if and when they take their days off rather than the Government forcing them to take days off work because it's a public holiday. No one should lose any holiday but the extra days can be taken when the worker (and the organisation) want.
That is already the case. Employees and workers are entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday per year (28 days if you are full time, 5 days a week) but the legislation makes no provision for specific days of the year to be taken. Bank Holidays (there is a technically difference between bank and public holidays but it is slight) are merely customary holidays, days in which the Banks in the City close. There are restrictions on trading on Sundays and Christmas Day but otherwise employees and employers can, in principle, determine when those 5.6 weeks (28 days) are taken, so long as they are.
20 or so years ago the NHS Trust where I worked decided to offer us an extra 3 days holiday if we were prepared to agree to give up* the (then at any rate) customary Friday off before Spring Bank Holiday Monday and August Bank Holiday. Of course we agreed, especially as pretty well everyone thought patient care would be improved. Meant I got nearly 7 weeks holiday, which quite frankly seemed daft to me.
Incidentally, I'd far rather July 12th as a holiday rather than St Patrick's Day. We're overloaded with Bank/Public holidays from mid March to late May as it is. This year I suspect a Bank/Public holiday on Guy Fawkes Day would be celebrated with extra fervour!
*Edited to correct silly mistake.
The biggest gap for a holiday is in the autumn months although I agree that one more in the summer would be a nice idea too. We have among the fewest bank holidays in the world, so asking for another day or two is reasonable.
It turns out that a bad deal is better than no deal. Obviously.
You keep saying this, but it's not a bad deal. It's actually a pretty good deal. All the benefits of 45+ EU trade deals, no free movement, all the benefits of the single market, no membership fees and now an exit mechanism should the EU try and sabotage the long terms trade deal.
IT IS NOT A F***ING DEAL!
It is a document whereby we are able to leave and which gives us space to negotiate a deal. There is a Churchillian paraphrase in there somewhere but it bugs me when the elision is made between the WA and any final trade deal we might be able to negotiate.
I know you know this, Max but it is extremely frustrating when people use the shorthand because it simply compounds our many problems.
Yes, that's a good point, but even as a transition state it's a good place to be IMO, now with the exit mechanism in a scenario where the EU plays silly buggers.
For those that are interested, here are 37 Conservative MPs who I currently expect to vote against any revival of the meaningful vote (the first 31 are ERGonauts, the next six are from the Remain wing of the party):
Adam Afriyie (Windsor) Lucy Allan (Telford) Steve Baker (Wycombe) Crispin Blunt (Reigate) Peter Bone (Wellingborough) Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) Christopher Chope (Christchurch) Richard Drax (South Dorset) James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) Chris Green (Bolton West) Philip Hollobone (Kettering) Adam Holloway (Gravesham) Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood) Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) David Jones (Clwyd West) Julian Lewis (New Forest East) Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) Priti Patel (Witham) Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) John Redwood (Wokingham) Andrew Rosindell (Romford) Henry Smith (Crawley) Royston Smith (Southampton Itchen) Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed)
Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) Justine Greening (Putney) Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) Joseph Johnson (Orpington) Phillip Lee (Bracknell)
Notable omissions include Bill Cash, John Baron, Dominic Raab and Bernard Jenkin, all of whom have been quiet recently so far as I can tell.
Has anyone ever noticed before the interesting regional dynamics of this all based around the M3-M4-M40 corridors? In the middle you have Theresa May's constituency of Maidenhead. Surrounding it you have Steve Baker (High Wycombe), Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield), Adam Afryie (Windsor), Philip Lee (Bracknell) and John Redwood (Wokingham). Is it so common to find such extremists at either end of the Brexit spectrum in such a small geographical area?
Reading the letter from Peter Bone et al I am beginning to become worried that if we have either May's deal, such as it is, or a proper Customs Union the row will simmer down briefly then start all over again.
I had expected there to be a Rejoin campaign after a short interval but tis suggests there will be one on the other side as well.
C'est la mère Loiseau qui a perdu son chat, Qui crie par la fenêtre à qui le lui rendra. C'est le Père, l'eusses-tu cru, Qui lui a répondu : Allez la mère Loiseau vot' chat n'est pas perdu
. . .
Et la mère Loiseau lui dit : c'est décidé, Si vous m'rendez mon chat vous aurez un baiser ! Et le Père, l'eusses-tu cru, Qui n'en a pas voulu, Dit à la mère Loiseau : vot' chat il est vendu.
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Ireland has just lost the one large country that thinks like it does, free trade, open markets, atlanticist to a point. A similar issue faces other small European countries like the Scandies. There is no longer someone to be the bad guy on blocking protectionism and centralism. ireland will probably see this first commission moves to equalise tax. Thats why I say beck and call since for a lot of the small states finding a modus vivendi with german hegemony is all they can do. Im just finishing off Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis and even allowing for " well he would say that wouldnt he ", the observations on how the EU is run are gobsmacking in places.
On the peace issue I said over a year ago there was no benefit for anyone in stirring up the North. Varadkar went ahead anyhow to gain a short term electoral advantage which he then failed to expolit. All he has achieved is to put inter irish relations back 20 years. No doubt hell eventually waltz off to some job in Brussels but someone else will have to tidy up his shit and the ordinary joes just pay the price of his career ambitions. Boris O'johnson.
What did he do to "stir up the north"?
weaponising the whole border issue
but weve been through this several times as you know, so I'm taking the question as an early morning troll
ha no wasn't meant to be - weaponising the border ignores the fact that the border would have to have been addressed. Don't shoot the messenger. It's not as though no one would have noticed it (and of course there is the whole wanting a united ireland thing).
of course the border would have to be addressed and LVs predecessor had set up a mechanism to do so, LV decided to take a different approach. As for the UI thing the south has always had an Augustinian approach to it.
Well with Kenny's technology which doesn't exist and Ahern's "blind eye" approach we would pretty soon have ended up here.
Ireland has just lost the one large country that thinks like it does, free trade, open markets, atlanticist to a point. A similar issue faces other small European countries like the Scandies. There is no longer someone to be the bad guy on blocking protectionism and centralism. ireland will probably see this first commission moves to equalise tax. Thats why I say beck and call since for a lot of the small states finding a modus vivendi with german hegemony is all they can do. Im just finishing off Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis and even allowing for " well he would say that wouldnt he ", the observations on how the EU is run are gobsmacking in places.
On the peace issue I said over a year ago there was no benefit for anyone in stirring up the North. Varadkar went ahead anyhow to gain a short term electoral advantage which he then failed to expolit. All he has achieved is to put inter irish relations back 20 years. No doubt hell eventually waltz off to some job in Brussels but someone else will have to tidy up his shit and the ordinary joes just pay the price of his career ambitions. Boris O'johnson.
What did he do to "stir up the north"?
weaponising the whole border issue
but weve been through this several times as you know, so I'm taking the question as an early morning troll
ha no wasn't meant to be - weaponising the border ignores the fact that the border would have to have been addressed. Don't shoot the messenger. It's not as though no one would have noticed it (and of course there is the whole wanting a united ireland thing).
of course the border would have to be addressed and LVs predecessor had set up a mechanism to do so, LV decided to take a different approach. As for the UI thing the south has always had an Augustinian approach to it.
So as leader of a minority coalition government he single-handedly changed the Irish state's approach to such an existential issue?
His predecssor was the leader of a minority government and was happy enough to take a more pragmatic approach.
The UK government was adamant that no infrastructure could be countenanced... You seem to think Ireland should have insisted on it to make Brexit easier.
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Please, please, do not put a bank holiday in November or early December. It will instantly become National Xmas Shopping day and a Black Friday type mad event.
It turns out that a bad deal is better than no deal. Obviously.
You keep saying this, but it's not a bad deal. It's actually a pretty good deal. All the benefits of 45+ EU trade deals, no free movement, all the benefits of the single market, no membership fees and now an exit mechanism should the EU try and sabotage the long terms trade deal.
IT IS NOT A F***ING DEAL!
It is a document whereby we are able to leave and which gives us space to negotiate a deal. There is a Churchillian paraphrase in there somewhere but it bugs me when the elision is made between the WA and any final trade deal we might be able to negotiate.
I know you know this, Max but it is extremely frustrating when people use the shorthand because it simply compounds our many problems.
Yes, that's a good point, but even as a transition state it's a good place to be IMO, now with the exit mechanism in a scenario where the EU plays silly buggers.
oh god yes - it's a great place to be. But you have ******* ********* like Paterson et al sailing into their brave new no deal world which means achieving it will be more tricky*.
"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!" - Han Solo, 1977.
"You told me this was going to be simple" - Napoleon Solo 1965
"In political administration, no problem is ever simple. It can never be reduced to the question whether a certain measure is good or not." - Napoleon Bonaparte
That bunch of nobodies (one of them my MP) can easily be dispatched with. It all now hinges on the DUP. If they fall into line Rees-Mogg will follow, and if that happens no Tory will dare muck it up independently.
Jacob Rees-Mogg, who chairs the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Conservative MPs, said on Monday he would wait for the DUP’s verdict before deciding himself.
“No deal is better than a bad deal but a bad deal is better than remaining in the European Union,” he told LBC radio. “Mrs May’s deal, however bad it is, means that we are legally outside the European Union.”
Reading the letter from Peter Bone et al I am beginning to become worried that if we have either May's deal, such as it is, or a proper Customs Union the row will simmer down briefly then start all over again.
I had expected there to be a Rejoin campaign after a short interval but tis suggests there will be one on the other side as well.
Of course. Whatever the deal or arrangement, the ultras will spend years raging against the betrayal.
Meanwhile Outre-manche things are hotting up. Gilets Jaunes who looked liked they were slowly fading away went mad on the Champs Elysees during week 18 and trashed the place. Macron even had to interrupt his Jovian skiing.
I suspect this will hurt the GJs as the violent element in the protestors seriously overstepped the mark. But it is France so who knows. Either way it should give Macron a break.
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Please, please, do not put a bank holiday in November or early December. It will instantly become National Xmas Shopping day and a Black Friday type mad event.
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Please, please, do not put a bank holiday in November or early December. It will instantly become National Xmas Shopping day and a Black Friday type mad event.
Indeed. Vomit inducing.
Mid October to coincide with the schools half-term would be much better.
Ireland has just lost the one large country that thinks like it does, free trade, open markets, atlanticist to a point. A similar issue faces other small European countries like the Scandies. There is no longer someone to be the bad guy on blocking protectionism and centralism. ireland will probably see this first commission moves to equalise tax. Thats why I say beck and call since for a lot of the small states finding a modus vivendi with german hegemony is all they can do. Im just finishing off Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis and even allowing for " well he would say that wouldnt he ", the observations on how the EU is run are gobsmacking in places.
On the peace issue I said over a year ago there was no benefit for anyone in stirring up the North. Varadkar went ahead anyhow to gain a short term electoral advantage which he then failed to expolit. All he has achieved is to put inter irish relations back 20 years. No doubt hell eventually waltz off to some job in Brussels but someone else will have to tidy up his shit and the ordinary joes just pay the price of his career ambitions. Boris O'johnson.
What did he do to "stir up the north"?
weaponising the whole border issue
but weve been through this several times as you know, so I'm taking the question as an early morning troll
ha no wasn't meant to be - weaponising the border ignores the fact that the border would have to have been addressed. Don't shoot the messenger. It's not as though no one would have noticed it (and of course there is the whole wanting a united ireland thing).
of course the border would have to be addressed and LVs predecessor had set up a mechanism to do so, LV decided to take a different approach. As for the UI thing the south has always had an Augustinian approach to it.
Well with Kenny's technology which doesn't exist and Ahern's "blind eye" approach we would pretty soon have ended up here.
The answer lies in 1916
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Please, please, do not put a bank holiday in November or early December. It will instantly become National Xmas Shopping day and a Black Friday type mad event.
What's wrong with that?
I refer you to the US, and the day after Thanksgiving.
We are not leaving with a no deal so their choice, TM deal or remain
I have no problem with either
"The precursor of a very good deal indeed" is also delusional.
Along with "it is not our fault", and "our moral course is clear"...
Actually, simpler to just recognise them as utterly delusional.
I would agree and they seem to be devoid of political judgment and in denial about their opposition
I am ashamed to say that Peter Bone and I went to the same school, although not, by many years, at the same time. Clearly the critical standards I was taught had deteriorated by the time he got there.
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
I think the devil is in the "carry out spot checks to stop it getting it out of hand".
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Please, please, do not put a bank holiday in November or early December. It will instantly become National Xmas Shopping day and a Black Friday type mad event.
What's wrong with that?
I refer you to the US, and the day after Thanksgiving.
A day where retailers "enter the black", could do with more of that for some retailers here. I don't see the problem.
Wow. Looks like even Rees-Mogg is starting to wibble wobble. Theresa might actually do this.
Rees-Mogg is a comparative moderate. That letter lines up the real nutters with Mr Bone top of the swivel eyed brigade. His piece in the Sunday Telegraph yesterday was a master class in self delusion
Wow, the resort to Ad Hominem. If only you knew ... but I'll keep my powder dry.
I envisage a more informed debate and vote in which various options, perhaps with AV - STV - is in place.
So not a repeat. At all.
Mind you, not that this would be a bad thing anyway. Your argument is like saying that because Clem Attlee won a landslide in 1945 we should still have a massive Labour majority. Part of the art of democracy is enabling litmus tests of public mood. Clearly much has altered in the last three years.
To be frank, your intransigence about offering the deal back to the public demonstrates to me that you've lost the argument and, with it, the public.
Ad hominem in response to Ad hominem. So you have no cause to moan.
And no, again you show you idiocy. When we elect MPs they go into office. The result of the election is respected. We then have a system whereby after a period of time we re-elect them or not.
What you are saying is that if, for example, a few more people had voted for Labour MPs at the last election as a means of limiting May's majority (as lots of people seem to claim was the reason) and we had happened to get a Corbyn majority, we should have immediately had another election before he took office because we hadn't actually wanted Corbyn to win.
Of course that is not how the system does or should work. If the public are asked a question in a vote they have every right to expect that the result of that vote will be respected. Otherwise how are they to believe that democracy has any value at all?
Except the system for electing MPs does allow for recall votes in some circumstances...
If sufficient people feel that their leave vote was a result of being lied to, and they deeply regret it, then one might make a case that forcing them to 'respect' the result of that vote is equally toxic to their view of democracy.
His predecssor was the leader of a minority government and was happy enough to take a more pragmatic approach.
LV is an untrustworthy blueshirt prick but at least he didn't genuflect toward London so good on him for that.
Two INS Officer friends of ours were out with my daughter last night as the LE James Joyce was in London. None of them have your late C19 hang ups in inter island relations. Good news.
As a matter of democratic accountability, given the enormous importance of so many issues that would be decided in an Article 50 renegotiation – a far, far bigger deal than a normal election – it seems right to give people a vote on it.
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
I think the devil is in the "carry out spot checks to stop it getting it out of hand".
well nobody will do anything south of the border, in NI trucks there are already checked to make sure vehicles comply with road safety, and since its the PSNI already have their own need to track down the cigarette and drug trade theres nothing really that new in the mix.
Irish Border smuggling is nearly 100 years old and nobody has stopped in that timeframe.
Mr. Drutt, indeed, point 1) is particularly sensible. If we'd voted 52% Remain the political/media class would be speaking about accepting democracy and enacting the result and that the matter was settled for decades now, if not forever.
The pesky electorate voted the wrong way.
Disagree. We would have had endless discussion of 'how has it come to this that 48% voted out' and 'we need to address the concerns of the nearly half who voted out'. Rather than being seen as a defeat and 'the voice of the people has spoken', it would have been seen in the context of a rising tide of inevitability that just didn't quite get there - like Scottish independence in some circles or Labour's defeat in 2017 that felt like a victory.
If you don't believe me look at the media's response to Le Pen getting into the second round in France (last time or in 2002), and the way they cover right wing movements elsewhere: it's all about 'how can we stop globalisation failing the working class'.
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
I think the devil is in the "carry out spot checks to stop it getting it out of hand".
well nobody will do anything south of the border, in NI trucks there are already checked to make sure vehicles comply with road safety, and since its the PSNI already have their own need to track down the cigarette and drug trade theres nothing really that new in the mix.
Irish Border smuggling is nearly 100 years old and nobody has stopped in that timeframe.
Precisely. Corporation Tax, VAT, duties and other taxes are all already not aligned.
Unless or until the Irish start campaigning to get Corporation Tax aligned, I see no reason why Customs need to be either.
Reading the letter from Peter Bone et al I am beginning to become worried that if we have either May's deal, such as it is, or a proper Customs Union the row will simmer down briefly then start all over again.
I had expected there to be a Rejoin campaign after a short interval but tis suggests there will be one on the other side as well.
Of course. Whatever the deal or arrangement, the ultras will spend years raging against the betrayal.
They always were going to spend years raging against something; it's their life.
Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!
At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!" - Han Solo, 1977.
"You told me this was going to be simple" - Napoleon Solo 1965
"In political administration, no problem is ever simple. It can never be reduced to the question whether a certain measure is good or not." - Napoleon Bonaparte
Does it need a majority when No Deal on the 29th of March is the law?
As noted upthread, it's not the law if we agree an extension...
As I keep pointing out, it’s not law until the relevant sections of the EUWA are commenced either.
That means, I think (IANAL), that no order to change the exit date (which needs to be approved by both houses) need be made if the sections that depend on the exit day are not in force, but I’d love to hear the opinions of our learned friends on the board on the matter.
I think it also follows that if we get an A50 extension and we pass the original exit day with nothing having been done to amend the EUWA wrt to exit day, then it would become impossible to commence the main sections of the Act without having made and obtained Parliamentary approval of the order to change the exit date first because not doing so would make the repeal of the ECA retrospective to 29th March which would cause all sorts of legal problems.
Also, I’m assuming from my non-expert reading of Schedule 7 to the EUWA that the commencement orders for section 1 etc can just be made by a Minister and don’t require Parliamentary approval, but again I’d love to know what our legal eagles think.
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
I think the devil is in the "carry out spot checks to stop it getting it out of hand".
well nobody will do anything south of the border, in NI trucks there are already checked to make sure vehicles comply with road safety, and since its the PSNI already have their own need to track down the cigarette and drug trade theres nothing really that new in the mix.
Irish Border smuggling is nearly 100 years old and nobody has stopped in that timeframe.
Precisely. Corporation Tax, VAT, duties and other taxes are all already not aligned.
Unless or until the Irish start campaigning to get Corporation Tax aligned, I see no reason why Customs need to be either.
I am with you on this. I can't understand why the Irish border issue can't be settled with a "self-assessment" type solution. If you are caught you get a punitive heavy fine. Can't be beyond the wit? Goods that are then attempted to be moved to mainland UK or visa versa can be intercepted. Maybe I am being too simplistic.
if they abstain rather than vote against how many labour / erg does she need to switch if DUP come on board?
Perhaps a mix, say 18 abstentions, 7 against. 10 Lab needed for a tie I think?
I wonder how many of the ultra hardliners will be so staunch once an extension goes through .... they seem to still be clinging on to the idea we could still no-deal exit this month.
we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).
I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
There are four months without any holidays between August Bank Holiday and Christmas
Please, please, do not put a bank holiday in November or early December. It will instantly become National Xmas Shopping day and a Black Friday type mad event.
What's wrong with that?
I refer you to the US, and the day after Thanksgiving.
A day where retailers "enter the black", could do with more of that for some retailers here. I don't see the problem.
The problem is that it's a yet another 'holiday' that has been turned into a festival of rampant, unthinking consumerism – lower paid retail workers put under pressure to staff aircraft hanger stores while the middle classes enjoy their family time off. We've already got enough of those sorts of days. Let holidays be holidays.
Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!
At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
Mr. Drutt, indeed, point 1) is particularly sensible. If we'd voted 52% Remain the political/media class would be speaking about accepting democracy and enacting the result and that the matter was settled for decades now, if not forever.
The pesky electorate voted the wrong way.
Disagree. We would have had endless discussion of 'how has it come to this that 48% voted out' and 'we need to address the concerns of the nearly half who voted out'. Rather than being seen as a defeat and 'the voice of the people has spoken', it would have been seen in the context of a rising tide of inevitability that just didn't quite get there - like Scottish independence in some circles or Labour's defeat in 2017 that felt like a victory.
If you don't believe me look at the media's response to Le Pen getting into the second round in France (last time or in 2002), and the way they cover right wing movements elsewhere: it's all about 'how can we stop globalisation failing the working class'.
Indeed. Can we imagine Farage accepting that? No. We know they would have been agitating from day one for another vote. Shows what a bunch of lying toe-rags people like him continue to be. They got the result they wanted so now they are terrified that the "will-o-the-people might be tested again now that real facts are now presenting themselves.
Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!
At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
Are they defining long? If no-one else wants the poisoned chalice while Brexit is still unresolved, May could just kick the can as far as she can get away with.
Whilst it bears some of the hallmarks of an Islamic extremism public transport attack (and some Islamic extremist groups have urged the attacking of trams), the origins on this one can't be called yet.
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
I think the devil is in the "carry out spot checks to stop it getting it out of hand".
well nobody will do anything south of the border, in NI trucks there are already checked to make sure vehicles comply with road safety, and since its the PSNI already have their own need to track down the cigarette and drug trade theres nothing really that new in the mix.
Irish Border smuggling is nearly 100 years old and nobody has stopped in that timeframe.
Makes you wonder what all the fuss is about doesn't it.
Are they defining long? If no-one else wants the poisoned chalice while Brexit is still unresolved, May could just kick the can as far as she can get away with.
Are they defining long? If no-one else wants the poisoned chalice while Brexit is still unresolved, May could just kick the can as far as she can get away with.
"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!" - Han Solo, 1977.
"You told me this was going to be simple" - Napoleon Solo 1965
"In political administration, no problem is ever simple. It can never be reduced to the question whether a certain measure is good or not." - Napoleon Bonaparte
'Freakin Idiot' - Napoleon Dynamite
"Impossible!" cried Napoleon. "We have built the walls far too thick for that. They could not knock it down in a week. Courage, comrades!" - Animal Farm.
Interesting . This looks like the last chance for the deal and the final push to get MPs to agree . I expect May to resign after getting the extension and say a new leader needs to reset the negotiations .
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
I think the devil is in the "carry out spot checks to stop it getting it out of hand".
well nobody will do anything south of the border, in NI trucks there are already checked to make sure vehicles comply with road safety, and since its the PSNI already have their own need to track down the cigarette and drug trade theres nothing really that new in the mix.
Irish Border smuggling is nearly 100 years old and nobody has stopped in that timeframe.
Makes you wonder what all the fuss is about doesn't it.
Interesting . This looks like the last chance for the deal and the final push to get MPs to agree . I expect May to resign after getting the extension and say a new leader needs to reset the negotiations .
What negotiations? After a long extension the WA will just sit there waiting for a decision from the UK.
Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!
At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
Mr. Drutt, indeed, point 1) is particularly sensible. If we'd voted 52% Remain the political/media class would be speaking about accepting democracy and enacting the result and that the matter was settled for decades now, if not forever.
The pesky electorate voted the wrong way.
Disagree. We would have had endless discussion of 'how has it come to this that 48% voted out' and 'we need to address the concerns of the nearly half who voted out'. Rather than being seen as a defeat and 'the voice of the people has spoken', it would have been seen in the context of a rising tide of inevitability that just didn't quite get there - like Scottish independence in some circles or Labour's defeat in 2017 that felt like a victory.
If you don't believe me look at the media's response to Le Pen getting into the second round in France (last time or in 2002), and the way they cover right wing movements elsewhere: it's all about 'how can we stop globalisation failing the working class'.
Indeed. Can we imagine Farage accepting that? No. We know they would have been agitating from day one for another vote. Shows what a bunch of lying toe-rags people like him continue to be. They got the result they wanted so now they are terrified that the "will-o-the-people might be tested again now that real facts are now presenting themselves.
Farage said on referendum night when he thought he’d narrowly lost that it just meant one more heave to another vote in a few years’ time.
Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!
At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
Yes indeed. There are at least half the voting electorate (or about 37% of the total) that think we have had enough of experts. However, if I need a hip operation I think I might want to be sure the surgeon knows what she/he is doing. I'd also prefer MPs to have a reasonable ability to pass a logic test!
Comments
https://twitter.com/owenpaterson/status/1107581889508982785?s=21
Safe seats?
We are not leaving with a no deal so their choice, TM deal or remain
I have no problem with either
I had expected there to be a Rejoin campaign after a short interval but tis suggests there will be one on the other side as well.
C'est la mère Loiseau qui a perdu son chat,
Qui crie par la fenêtre à qui le lui rendra.
C'est le Père, l'eusses-tu cru,
Qui lui a répondu :
Allez la mère Loiseau vot' chat n'est pas perdu
. . .
Et la mère Loiseau lui dit : c'est décidé,
Si vous m'rendez mon chat vous aurez un baiser !
Et le Père, l'eusses-tu cru,
Qui n'en a pas voulu,
Dit à la mère Loiseau : vot' chat il est vendu.
Along with "it is not our fault", and "our moral course is clear"...
Actually, simpler to just recognise them as utterly delusional.
*But not impossible.
Jacob Rees-Mogg, who chairs the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Conservative MPs, said on Monday he would wait for the DUP’s verdict before deciding himself.
“No deal is better than a bad deal but a bad deal is better than remaining in the European Union,” he told LBC radio. “Mrs May’s deal, however bad it is, means that we are legally outside the European Union.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/18/dup-backing-will-not-secure-may-brexit-deal-says-jim-wells
Meanwhile Outre-manche things are hotting up. Gilets Jaunes who looked liked they were slowly fading away went mad on the Champs Elysees during week 18 and trashed the place. Macron even had to interrupt his Jovian skiing.
I suspect this will hurt the GJs as the violent element in the protestors seriously overstepped the mark. But it is France so who knows. Either way it should give Macron a break.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2019/03/18/20002-20190318ARTFIG00021-gilets-jaunes-bercy-organise-une-reunion-de-crise.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_holidays_in_the_United_States#List_of_federal_holidays
Mid October to coincide with the schools half-term would be much better.
The admiralty that is. The RN used to claim that there were too many ships for them to be able to organise convoys, A junior officer analysed the shipping movements and realised it was the 80-20 rule.The bulk of trade was carried by a minority of ships all the rest was just fishing boats or localised trade.
So with inter Irish trade, A few large companies will do the bulk of transactions and stay within the regulations, Whats left isnt really worth worrying about except to carry out spot checks to stop it getting out of hand. Somebody buying booze in Newry at Christmas isnt going to wreck the irish economy.
Edit: Also we won't have to wait a month for 'something' to happen.
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1107602751616438272
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47611811
If sufficient people feel that their leave vote was a result of being lied to, and they deeply regret it, then one might make a case that forcing them to 'respect' the result of that vote is equally toxic to their view of democracy.
http://www.theirishworld.com/tours-of-le-james-joyce-ship-for-st-patricks-week/
Truly inspirational... still, sitting on the sidelines criticising everything is the modus operandi.
At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
As a matter of democratic accountability, given the enormous importance of so many issues that would be decided in an Article 50 renegotiation – a far, far bigger deal than a normal election – it seems right to give people a vote on it.
Which if they do means they'll get an extension. Which they can then pretend has nothing to do with their actions since they voted against.
Irish Border smuggling is nearly 100 years old and nobody has stopped in that timeframe.
If you don't believe me look at the media's response to Le Pen getting into the second round in France (last time or in 2002), and the way they cover right wing movements elsewhere: it's all about 'how can we stop globalisation failing the working class'.
Unless or until the Irish start campaigning to get Corporation Tax aligned, I see no reason why Customs need to be either.
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1107604583625515008
That means, I think (IANAL), that no order to change the exit date (which needs to be approved by both houses) need be made if the sections that depend on the exit day are not in force, but I’d love to hear the opinions of our learned friends on the board on the matter.
I think it also follows that if we get an A50 extension and we pass the original exit day with nothing having been done to amend the EUWA wrt to exit day, then it would become impossible to commence the main sections of the Act without having made and obtained Parliamentary approval of the order to change the exit date first because not doing so would make the repeal of the ECA retrospective to 29th March which would cause all sorts of legal problems.
Also, I’m assuming from my non-expert reading of Schedule 7 to the EUWA that the commencement orders for section 1 etc can just be made by a Minister and don’t require Parliamentary approval, but again I’d love to know what our legal eagles think.
Perhaps a mix, say 18 abstentions, 7 against. 10 Lab needed for a tie I think?
I wonder how many of the ultra hardliners will be so staunch once an extension goes through .... they seem to still be clinging on to the idea we could still no-deal exit this month.
Notably the assailant is roaming free.
Seems a bit late to me
One could also do that by extending, or rescinding it.
Unless he's thinking we all might just ignore it completely ?