Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
So can we measure the remaining lifespan of the Prime Minister in hours or days? How about for the government> How about for Brexit?
Better to think of her tenure as a half life. Exponentially decaying and becoming ever more useless, but never quite over. No chance of her actually quitting if MV3 fails. She will never resign of her own accord.
It's a dreadful situation. Theresa May has no sway over her hardliners. They either get her deal, which most of them can live with, or they get No Deal, which they prefer. Her Remainer colleagues are appalled at the prospect of No Deal, but are entirely dependent on Labour MPs not opposing. The Deal could pass with a split Tory party and Labour abstentions because they were bounced into it. But the Deal is only a smoke and mirrors affair to get through Brexit. The real bloodletting will start next week when discussions about the long term arrangements start. These will take place in an atmosphere of resentment.
It seems quite likely to pass, with the pincer movement of May (pass it or who knows what) and Tusk (pass it or no deal). As you say, probably a split Tory party and lots of Labour abstentions. The public will be quite pleased - decisive at last, etc.
As you say, the devil will be in the details, and it may be that May will not be carrying those forward...
Revoke's still a possibility, though.
I am not at all sure how that comes about
Boris Johnson seizes the opportunity for his Churchillian moment and backs revocation as the best way of avoiding the "Carthaginian terms" of the withdrawal agreement.
"Anyone can rat, but it takes a certain amount of ingenuity to re-rat." Yes, I could see that appealing to Boris.
Is PM Boris a price worth paying for Remaining though? Hmm...
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's one to talk given his unbending fanaticism is one reason no deal is still so prevalent an option. He's a total hypocrite who has been happy to risk everything so long as he gets what he wants, and no different to those he criticises.
I am beginning to think this has been co-ordinated by the EU and no 10
Lidington was in Brussels yesterday and the choreography from TM publishing her letter, to leaks that Macron would say no, to Tusk saying yes but subject to WDA passing next week, and Varadkar announcing TM will address the nation tonight
Who knows but it is feasable
Don't be ridiculous. None of those involved are capable of that level of coordination or organisation. We have a PM whose focus has come down from a long term plan, to the next week to what votes are up today. She has completely lost the plot and really should have quit.
Maybe but books in the future will be very interesting
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
In a keenly contested category, she is now comfortably the worst Prime Minister in my lifetime and quite possibly the worst since universal suffrage.
From the other side of the Brexit debate, I have to agree with you.
Stunning direct attack on May by Grieve in the Commons debate
Remainers rattled.....
Grieve has put everything he owns on black. It's going to come up red.
In my brief period posting here I have noticed that there is a general consensus that when someone of the opposite views to a poster verbally attacks someone who shares his/her views, it automatically means that the attacker (and by extension his party/tribe) is "rattled". May I ask if there is any evidence to support this assertion? A peer-reviewed psychological study perhaps?
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
Agree that and the deal should be confirmed with the help of labour mps acting independent of Corbyn
If our MPs weren't using Brexit as a proxy for leadership battles or for forcing a general election, we might have ended up with a sensible compromise a hell of a lot sooner.
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
Indeed. Plus she has tried the approach before to put pressure on MPs, and it hasn't worked because the public are happier with no deal than deal, ore remain than deal.
How does that work, putting it to the people. Like a vote, you mean?
It's a dreadful situation. Theresa May has no sway over her hardliners. They either get her deal, which most of them can live with, or they get No Deal, which they prefer. Her Remainer colleagues are appalled at the prospect of No Deal, but are entirely dependent on Labour MPs not opposing. The Deal could pass with a split Tory party and Labour abstentions because they were bounced into it. But the Deal is only a smoke and mirrors affair to get through Brexit. The real bloodletting will start next week when discussions about the long term arrangements start. These will take place in an atmosphere of resentment.
It seems quite likely to pass, with the pincer movement of May (pass it or who knows what) and Tusk (pass it or no deal). As you say, probably a split Tory party and lots of Labour abstentions. The public will be quite pleased - decisive at last, etc.
As you say, the devil will be in the details, and it may be that May will not be carrying those forward...
Revoke's still a possibility, though.
I am not at all sure how that comes about
Boris Johnson seizes the opportunity for his Churchillian moment and backs revocation as the best way of avoiding the "Carthaginian terms" of the withdrawal agreement.
"Anyone can rat, but it takes a certain amount of ingenuity to re-rat." Yes, I could see that appealing to Boris.
Is PM Boris a price worth paying for Remaining though? Hmm...
I suggested something along these lines to Johnson when I was lucky enough to meet him last week. He said that a lot of people had suggested that course of action to him, but he didn't seem to me very inclined to do it. (Sorry for namedropping).
Im sure there are many in the party who have never been more ashamed as to have him as a member
I am still a member, and I am a lot more proud of him than I am the thickos in the ERG. He is knowledgeable, articulate and intelligent. The Conservative Party needs more, not less Dominic Grieves, and a lot less Mark Francoises
Only 7 percent put the full blame on the EU for the current mess .
I think Sky Polls are just a part of the irritating ephemera of modern life. They could be used as examples in chapter 1 of "Invalid Statistical Techniques for fun or profit".
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
"As someone who has always advocated a close relationship between the UK and the European Union, I accept the result of the 2016 Referendum. I therefore strongly support the Prime Minister’s determination to secure a negotiated arrangement for leaving the EU and for forging a new trading relationship for the future, providing certainty for trade and business whilst giving us control of migration and releasing us from the direct effect of EU Law. I also believe that the people of our country will benefit from a close continuing relationship with a strong EU and I will work to help build these important links for our future. I very much hope, therefore, that the Prime Minister will be able to achieve something close to the goals she set out in her speech at Lancaster House in February."
The backlash against Labour for backing something like that would be immense.
No, the Withdrawal Agreement is largely not contested by Labour it is whether to make the backstop and Customs Union membership permanent which is a matter for the future relationship
The backlash against Labour for backing something like that would be immense.
No, the Withdrawal Agreement is largely not contested by Labour it is whether to make the backstop and Customs Union membership permanent which is a matter for the future relationship
Whether or not to support leaving is very much contested within the Labour party.
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
MPs shouldn't be robotic clones or nodding yes-men to their leader but when the central plank of a manifesto is something that you don't believe in . . . don't complain later when the government tries to implement the manifesto you were elected upon.
Im sure there are many in the party who have never been more ashamed as to have him as a member
I am still a member, and I am a lot more proud of him than I am the thickos in the ERG. He is knowledgeable, articulate and intelligent. The Conservative Party needs more, not less Dominic Grieves, and a lot less Mark Francoises
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
"As someone who has always advocated a close relationship between the UK and the European Union, I accept the result of the 2016 Referendum. I therefore strongly support the Prime Minister’s determination to secure a negotiated arrangement for leaving the EU and for forging a new trading relationship for the future, providing certainty for trade and business whilst giving us control of migration and releasing us from the direct effect of EU Law. I also believe that the people of our country will benefit from a close continuing relationship with a strong EU and I will work to help build these important links for our future. I very much hope, therefore, that the Prime Minister will be able to achieve something close to the goals she set out in her speech at Lancaster House in February."
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
"As someone who has always advocated a close relationship between the UK and the European Union, I accept the result of the 2016 Referendum. I therefore strongly support the Prime Minister’s determination to secure a negotiated arrangement for leaving the EU and for forging a new trading relationship for the future, providing certainty for trade and business whilst giving us control of migration and releasing us from the direct effect of EU Law. I also believe that the people of our country will benefit from a close continuing relationship with a strong EU and I will work to help build these important links for our future. I very much hope, therefore, that the Prime Minister will be able to achieve something close to the goals she set out in her speech at Lancaster House in February."
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.
Except almost everything the liar has done and said since.
I had my periodic glance at La Repubblica this morning and Brexit, even at this stage, was the 93rd strapline on the, very large, main page.
It's being much more frequently covered in France now. Opinion from everyone I've spoken to seems to be largely aligned with Macron against any extension and thinks we are a bit nuts. My own wife included!
Oh dear, someone has to support them I guess. Does he like Tommeh too ?
Actually once again Nigel is incorrect. I joined UKIP back when it first formed under Alan Sked. Unlike Sked I stayed in after Farage took over and then left once Cameron announced the referendum was on. They were a useful vehicle to achieve a goal and once that goal was achieved they became pointless. So I have not been a UKIP member for almost 4years.
Now since Nigel is both fairly new to PB and also clearly suffers from some deficiencies in intelligence he can be forgiven for not knowing this and also for not knowing I advocate unlimited migration. Something I suspect might stir some concerns in his closed mind.
An ex-UKIP member accusing someone of having a closed mind, or questioning their intelligence is hilarious!
I used to find you irritating, but now I do enjoy your contributions as they keep confirming my suspicions of how dumb you have to be to be a UKIP supporter. Now you admit you were a member. Fantastic. Did you have little rallies where you secretly dressed up? Practice sessions where you attempted to talk about Europe without getting red in the face or rolling your eyes?
The really interesting thing about your post is that you said you joined under Alan Sked. Sked openly accused Farage of being a racist (I am sure even you can use Google) and yet you remained part of a party led by a man accused of being a racist, and who has not sued Sked for what he said. You must have known about that. Nice one! Keep taking the tablets Richard. The great thing about freedom of speech is that we get to see those with unpleasant views crawl out from under their stones and show themselves for what they are.
PS I have been following PB since the days of "Tim". I gave up contributing for a while and then came back. Sorry you have bene too dumb to work that one out
UKIP just use to be red trousered libertarian free marketeers, it has long since gone down the rabbit hole to an immigration obsessed, foreigner hating, Islamic despising reactionary political wing of the EDF.
Im sure there are many in the party who have never been more ashamed as to have him as a member
I am still a member, and I am a lot more proud of him than I am the thickos in the ERG. He is knowledgeable, articulate and intelligent. The Conservative Party needs more, not less Dominic Grieves, and a lot less Mark Francoises
the conservatives no longer have a purpose they just need to wind their party up and make way for people interested in making the country a better place for all its citizens
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
So today May offers ERGers two good reasons not to vote for her deal: A much bigger likelihood of No Deal, and her resignation. What on earth is she thinking?
You are really funny, but without trying. A stereotype. The claim on unlimited immigration while being a member of UKIP. You couldn't make it up! Absolutely priceless, and then calling me Foreskin, absolutely brilliant. I don't often laugh at people, but Ill make an exception for you Mr Tyndall (or should I think of some childish playground name for you?).
As I said before you show your profound ignorance. I have argued in favour of unlimited migration on here for many years. I am starting to think perhaps you were still in nappies when Tim was posting on here.
Well I confess, much as it must hurt your ego, I had not noticed that contradiction before. A UKIPer in favour of unlimited migration! I have heard it all now! Sounds a bit like a Jewish Nazi or Billionaire Marxist. You are really very amusing!
Not really. Many people joined UKIP as a vehicle for getting a referendum. That is why when they got one support for the party collapsed. They became pointless.
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
"As someone who has always advocated a close relationship between the UK and the European Union, I accept the result of the 2016 Referendum. I therefore strongly support the Prime Minister’s determination to secure a negotiated arrangement for leaving the EU and for forging a new trading relationship for the future, providing certainty for trade and business whilst giving us control of migration and releasing us from the direct effect of EU Law. I also believe that the people of our country will benefit from a close continuing relationship with a strong EU and I will work to help build these important links for our future. I very much hope, therefore, that the Prime Minister will be able to achieve something close to the goals she set out in her speech at Lancaster House in February."
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.
Except almost everything the liar has done and said since.
Utter nonsense. He understands the law, his detractors, and most of the legislature do not.
The backlash against Labour for backing something like that would be immense.
Depends what it is of course. More likely nowt will come of it. A compromise to the PM means everyone deciding to agree with her.
Seems as good an excuse as any to bring back my theoretical conversation between party leaders at the suggestion they get locked together in a room to figure something out.
May: You must do as I say Corbyn: You must do as I say Blackford: You must do as I say Saville-Roberts: You must do as the SNP say Lucas: You must do as..wait, why am I even here? Dodds: Never, never... May: We've not discussed any options yet... Dodds: Don't interrupt me. Ahem. Never! May: *sigh*. Someone wake up Vince please. Umunna: I'll do it. All: Who the f*ck invited the Tiggers?
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
Rolling the pitch for the GE she will call if she loses MV3?
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
Which, given her astonishing political ineptitude, is likely to be precisely what she’ll do.
The backlash against Labour for backing something like that would be immense.
No, the Withdrawal Agreement is largely not contested by Labour it is whether to make the backstop and Customs Union membership permanent which is a matter for the future relationship
Whether or not to support leaving is very much contested within the Labour party.
Not really by Corbyn and not by many Labour MPs from Leave seats
I had my periodic glance at La Repubblica this morning and Brexit, even at this stage, was the 93rd strapline on the, very large, main page.
And while we are used to the ‘elected dictatorship’ nature of our politics, and all this parliament stuff seems dreadful and grubby, actually in the rest of Europe and most of the world this kind of thing is pretty normal. Deals, back scratching, nose holding and governments prostrating themselves to a small number of people who hold the balance of power is not considered a bug, but a feature of their politics based on proportional voting system creating perpetual coalitions.
So today May offers ERGers two good reasons not to vote for her deal: A much bigger likelihood of No Deal, and her resignation. What on earth is she thinking?
Scare the Remainers into it.
Too late. She cannot even control the ones in her Cabinet.
Im sure there are many in the party who have never been more ashamed as to have him as a member
I am still a member, and I am a lot more proud of him than I am the thickos in the ERG. He is knowledgeable, articulate and intelligent. The Conservative Party needs more, not less Dominic Grieves, and a lot less Mark Francoises
fewer
Fair enough, never mind being corrected on grammar, though if you understood rhetoric you would understand it spoils the symmetry of the sentence
I had my periodic glance at La Repubblica this morning and Brexit, even at this stage, was the 93rd strapline on the, very large, main page.
It's being much more frequently covered in France now. Opinion from everyone I've spoken to seems to be largely aligned with Macron against any extension and thinks we are a bit nuts. My own wife included!
The most interest seems to be in Northern Europe, particularly neighbouring countries ; France, the low countries, Germany and Scandinavia - and it's not generally positive.
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
I think there’s something about having the name “Nigel” that makes you rather dickish.
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
I think there’s something about having the name “Nigel” that makes you rather dickish.
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
"As someone who has always advocated a close relationship between the UK and the European Union, I accept the result of the 2016 Referendum. I therefore strongly support the Prime Minister’s determination to secure a negotiated arrangement for leaving the EU and for forging a new trading relationship for the future, providing certainty for trade and business whilst giving us control of migration and releasing us from the direct effect of EU Law. I also believe that the people of our country will benefit from a close continuing relationship with a strong EU and I will work to help build these important links for our future. I very much hope, therefore, that the Prime Minister will be able to achieve something close to the goals she set out in her speech at Lancaster House in February."
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.
He has been clear since that nothing the PM could achieve would be good enough for him. He should have been honest from the start. Carefully worded statements were not needed.
Going above the heads of MPs at this moment would be about as far as possible from the best thing to do, given that in this situation, it's *only* MPs who matter.
In a keenly contested category, she is now comfortably the worst Prime Minister in my lifetime and quite possibly the worst since universal suffrage.
I agree , May is a complete disgrace to this country.
I had my periodic glance at La Repubblica this morning and Brexit, even at this stage, was the 93rd strapline on the, very large, main page.
It's being much more frequently covered in France now. Opinion from everyone I've spoken to seems to be largely aligned with Macron against any extension and thinks we are a bit nuts. My own wife included!
The most interest seems to be in Northern Europe, particularly neighbouring countries ; France, the low countries, Germany and Scandinavia ; and it's not generally positive .
well since theyll take the brunt of the down side why would it be ?
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
I think there’s something about having the name “Nigel” that makes you rather dickish.
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!
I had my periodic glance at La Repubblica this morning and Brexit, even at this stage, was the 93rd strapline on the, very large, main page.
And while we are used to the ‘elected dictatorship’ nature of our politics, and all this parliament stuff seems dreadful and grubby, actually in the rest of Europe and most of the world this kind of thing is pretty normal. Deals, back scratching, nose holding and governments prostrating themselves to a small number of people who hold the balance of power is not considered a bug, but a feature of their politics based on proportional voting system creating perpetual coalitions.
While the rest of the country goes about its business quite happily.
Recent political events have been very European in their nature.
The backlash against Labour for backing something like that would be immense.
Depends what it is of course. More likely nowt will come of it. A compromise to the PM means everyone deciding to agree with her.
Seems as good an excuse as any to bring back my theoretical conversation between party leaders at the suggestion they get locked together in a room to figure something out.
May: You must do as I say Corbyn: You must do as I say Blackford: You must do as I say Saville-Roberts: You must do as the SNP say Lucas: You must do as..wait, why am I even here? Dodds: Never, never... May: We've not discussed any options yet... Dodds: Don't interrupt me. Ahem. Never! May: *sigh*. Someone wake up Vince please. Umunna: I'll do it. All: Who the f*ck invited the Tiggers?
But yeah, we know nothing will come of this.
LOL. And btw Grieve and Trevelyan even more determined to vote against now.
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!
Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party" "What is the purpose of this government?" "Trust and credibility in this government is running out" "We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
He's upset he's lost?
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.
"As someone who has always advocated a close relationship between the UK and the European Union, I accept the result of the 2016 Referendum. I therefore strongly support the Prime Minister’s determination to secure a negotiated arrangement for leaving the EU and for forging a new trading relationship for the future, providing certainty for trade and business whilst giving us control of migration and releasing us from the direct effect of EU Law. I also believe that the people of our country will benefit from a close continuing relationship with a strong EU and I will work to help build these important links for our future. I very much hope, therefore, that the Prime Minister will be able to achieve something close to the goals she set out in her speech at Lancaster House in February."
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.
He has been clear since that nothing the PM could achieve would be good enough for him. He should have been honest from the start. Carefully worded statements were not needed.
Can't agree with you Mr. kle4. You might not like what he has done, but he has been holding the PM to account while she has drifted inexorably in the direction of the ERG. For that he has done parliament and the country good service. He is a man of conscience and he believes what she has done has damaged the country.
@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
I think there’s something about having the name “Nigel” that makes you rather dickish.
Difficult to know how to respond to that really, other than to say prejudice sits well with your other opinions.
Comments
"What is the purpose of this government?"
"Trust and credibility in this government is running out"
"We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
Is PM Boris a price worth paying for Remaining though? Hmm...
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
lots of moaning and whingeing backbenchers bewailing their impotence in HoC
Only 7 percent put the full blame on the EU for the current mess .
or twitter.
really we should ban this entire lot from ever being MPs again and start with a fresh house.
Wonder how many others have also been holding off making a decision as long as possible and are now also acting?
The panic buying and chaos starts here in earnest
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
The electorate don't have votes in the Commons...
A compromise to the PM means everyone deciding to agree with her.
May: You must do as I say
Corbyn: You must do as I say
Blackford: You must do as I say
Saville-Roberts: You must do as the SNP say
Lucas: You must do as..wait, why am I even here?
Dodds: Never, never...
May: We've not discussed any options yet...
Dodds: Don't interrupt me. Ahem. Never!
May: *sigh*. Someone wake up Vince please.
Umunna: I'll do it.
All: Who the f*ck invited the Tiggers?
But yeah, we know nothing will come of this.
It suggests an independent Scotland might be happy.
I'm surprised to see Botswana as being so unhappy - I thought that was one of Africa's 'success stories'.
I think there’s something about having the name “Nigel” that makes you rather dickish.
we all agreed on one thing we couldnt think of any party we;d want to vote for
Or, rather, it is their problem.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.
maybe theres a lot to be said for ignoring the politicans and watching Love Island
Recent political events have been very European in their nature.
Hahahaha