Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.
Yes "just a petition", but I think it would be incredibly stupid not to recognize that opinion has shifted and may well shift still further against Brexit. A second referendum would probably crush leave.
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.
Yes "just a petition", but I think it would be incredibly stupid not to recognize that opinion has shifted and may well shift still further against Brexit. A second referendum would probably crush leave.
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.
So far as one can tell, support for the Conservatives is pretty solid. I don't doubt that there are millions of people who hate Brexit, but there are also millions who love it.
Chris Hanretty, Professor of Politics, Royal Holloway.
"Unfortunately for bremainers, the constituencies which have been most supportive of this petition are also the places that voted most strongly for Remain. I’ve been able to remap the results of last Thursday’s referendum onto Westminster constituencies (currently for England and Wales only). Using that, I can work out the association between the percentage voting to leave, and the percentage of the electorate who have signed the petition.
The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."
But that is a 3 year old article that you are pretending is about today's petition. Good try but zero bananas.
In other news buy bananas now - future supplies are unknown...
There's a 0.96 r correlation between the 2nd ref and revoke petitions. The idea there is a whole heap of leavers for revoke out there is for the birds.
So just me and Wor Lass then? Both signed the Revoke petition.
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
Sorry, but her behaviour this last 24 hours (appealing directly to the public rather than to MPs, suddenly putting out videos with captions after usually being so averse to social media) only makes sense if she is planning a general election.
Whether her own MPs would allow her to lead them into an election is another matter. She seems to have gone completely deranged to me.
Yes. She clearly thinks she embodies the will of the people and parliament should put aside its better judgment and bend to her wishes. This is a stance which was adopted by a number of European leaders in the early part of the last century who used referendums to circumvent representative democracy. With disastrous results.
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Alex Salmond comes to mind.
Well, yes, come to think of it, 21 SNP MP's lost their seats.
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.
Yes "just a petition", but I think it would be incredibly stupid not to recognize that opinion has shifted and may well shift still further against Brexit. A second referendum would probably crush leave.
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.
I am one of those (almost) lifetime Tories. I am pretty pissed off. Not enough to vote for Mr. Thicky's party while he heads it, but a change to someone more moderate would be enough for me to vote for them for the first time ever.
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Alex Salmond comes to mind.
Well, yes, come to think of it, 21 SNP MP's lost their seats.
Which is about 1 in 5 of those who voted against A50.
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
The Tory Revoke. It sounds like a post Brexit car made by a revitalised British Leyland, based on a chassis of an Austin Maxi, with all the reliability of Boris Johnson's marriage vows.
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
I agree we need a second referendum - how do we get one if the EU doesn't allow an extension?
If you are a remain supporting MP then you must be looking at the situation and be thinking that voting for May's deal is the least 'bad' option in what has realistically become a binary choice.
All the other avenues have been blocked off either by process, time compression or indeed just their perilous nature.
I find it hard to believe there will be very enough EU supporting zealots who will be brave enough to press the nuclear revoke button when the deal is still available.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
Chris Hanretty, Professor of Politics, Royal Holloway.
"Unfortunately for bremainers, the constituencies which have been most supportive of this petition are also the places that voted most strongly for Remain. I’ve been able to remap the results of last Thursday’s referendum onto Westminster constituencies (currently for England and Wales only). Using that, I can work out the association between the percentage voting to leave, and the percentage of the electorate who have signed the petition.
The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."
But that is a 3 year old article that you are pretending is about today's petition. Good try but zero bananas.
In other news buy bananas now - future supplies are unknown...
There's a 0.96 r correlation between the 2nd ref and revoke petitions. The idea there is a whole heap of leavers for revoke out there is for the birds.
So just me and Wor Lass then? Both signed the Revoke petition.
And me - as I said this is a failed project. Do you go live when you know the system doesn't work or revoke and keep things as they were.
Sorry, but her behaviour this last 24 hours (appealing directly to the public rather than to MPs, suddenly putting out videos with captions after usually being so averse to social media) only makes sense if she is planning a general election.
Whether her own MPs would allow her to lead them into an election is another matter. She seems to have gone completely deranged to me.
Yes. She clearly thinks she embodies the will of the people and parliament should put aside its better judgment and bend to her wishes. This is a stance which was adopted by a number of European leaders in the early part of the last century who used referendums to circumvent representative democracy. With disastrous results.
She has as much of a Messiah complex as Blair had, with about one-third of the ability.
Off-topic, but interesting snippet in Kevin Maguire's New Statesman column:
"Lib Dem staff are launching a covert ABC campaign – Anyone But Charmless – with resignations predicted should the brusque Jo “charmless” Swinson replace Vince Cable. My snout claims the Karl Marx of Twickenham was driven to despair by his deputy. I’m told he secretly favours Oxford’s Layla Moran."
He (he being Maguire) has form about lying about other parties of course. He’s not a journalist, he’s an enthusasist.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
No, the PM would have to enact it using the prerogative. If she refuses parliament cannot force her, only no confidence and try and get a new PM before 11pm 29th to do it. Or HMQ herself but she would never do it
And despite all the theoretically-workable scenarios which we (me included) come up with, I'm still looking at 650 people who couldn't even force indicative votes a couple of weeks out.
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.
Yeah. How do we go about getting some of those again?
I'd assumed that was how it was going to be done back in 2016. It isn't really a party political issue, and I would have thought that leavers would have wanted to keep it that way.
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
I want to say no. But the last 3 years don't really help the case.
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.
We should have done it ourselves, but the Tories and Labour have suicidally stupid leaders.
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.
Yeah. How do we go about getting some of those again?
What is going through the minds of negotiators in those countries who we will be trying to do a deal with??
Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
Some pretty chunky sums each way for Brexit by 29/3/2019 at 4.4-4.5. It seems to me that is underestimating the possibility now. Personally it looks much closer to evens to me.
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.
Sorry, but her behaviour this last 24 hours (appealing directly to the public rather than to MPs, suddenly putting out videos with captions after usually being so averse to social media) only makes sense if she is planning a general election.
Whether her own MPs would allow her to lead them into an election is another matter. She seems to have gone completely deranged to me.
Yes. She clearly thinks she embodies the will of the people and parliament should put aside its better judgment and bend to her wishes. This is a stance which was adopted by a number of European leaders in the early part of the last century who used referendums to circumvent representative democracy. With disastrous results.
She has as much of a Messiah complex as Blair had, with about one-third of one percent of the ability.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.
... it is an Ex Government.
Even if Theresa May is singing to the choir invisible, it is doubtful they are listening. Maybe she is pining for the Norway + !!
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Their parties' members would not forgive them for it. There are a whole load of voters out there who are nowhere near as committed.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Why not?
Most Conservative voters will be furious they stopped Brexit; most Labour voters will be furious they stopped Corbyn becoming PM. And first past the post is pitiless to candidates in the middle.
Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
Showing over a million signatures now, so clearly enough getting through.
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.
... it is an Ex Government.
Even if Theresa May is singing to the choir invisible, it is doubtful they are listening. Maybe she is pining for the Norway + !!
That would make her a Norwegian Blue. Seems to fit the situation nicely.
Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
The IT for the petitions website is pretty good. Scaling for one-off peaks in demand like this, without wasting a heap of money on wasted capacity, is hard.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Why not?
Labour's voters would, for the most part, forgive them. Most are pro-remain, and there is evidence that even Labour Leave voters do not feel especially strong about it.
Maybe that's why May is so hostile. It assists the opposition. By comparison, the fact that it gets the country out of a hole is of relatively little importance.
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Their parties' members would not forgive them for it. There are a whole load of voters out there who are nowhere near as committed.
It would be far more achievable if we had PR. At the moment, the middle gets squeezed (Ipsos Mori gives TIG just 2%).
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.
I'd rather that than those that seem to be doing the bidding of a HOSTILE foreign power, either intentionally or unintentionally! It would be more honest if they admitted that they have secret fantasies about riding bareback with Vladimir Putin.
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.
Well we have an unwritten, i.e. flexible constitution and I think Dominic Grieve entertained French ministers to a meeting in his office. Anything seems worth considering if it's more effective than the Maybot.
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.
Well we have an unwritten, i.e. flexible constitution and I think Dominic Grieve entertained French ministers to a meeting in his office. Anything seems worth considering if it's more effective than the Maybot.
But regardless the PM weildjng the RP is required to formalize any treaty
A vote to revoke would require a degree of courage which MPs have so far failed to display.
Now, if they could revoke while passing the buck...…..
Is it even legally clear whether the Commons can unilaterally revoke without government involvement? Surely it is not.
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......
There is that.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Why not?
Labour's voters would, for the most part, forgive them. Most are pro-remain, and there is evidence that even Labour Leave voters do not feel especially strong about it.
Maybe that's why May is so hostile. It assists the opposition. By comparison, the fact that it gets the country out of a hole is of relatively little importance.
Civil war. Not in the sense of two armies but of two antagonistic blocs where co-operation will break down. The anger has ratcheted up. From being banter to accusations of treachery to downright hatred.
We had a referendum on something that only a few people were bothered about. Now we have a massive split, real anger, and no easy way to solve it as positions become entrenched. Once you pick and choose your democracy, you've lost it. Telling people to simmer down won't do.
Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
The IT for the petitions website is pretty good. Scaling for one-off peaks in demand like this, without wasting a heap of money on wasted capacity, is hard.
It's achievable but the costs of doing it easily (you would need a cloud provider) is far higher than hosting it in an unscaleable way (using your own servers)...
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.
If you're dreaming of getting EU collusion, I think any emergency solution will be around a long extension rather than revoke. IMO, revoke without a referendum is still very much a minority sport.
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.
If you're dreaming of getting EU collusion, I think any emergency solution will be around a long extension rather than revoke. IMO, revoke without a referendum is still very much a minority sport.
Some Brexiteers have already been trying to provide political cover for revocation by framing it as rethinking and doing Brexit properly later.
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.
It's only doable if a new PM is amongst them. They cant agree Jack shit without the royal prerogative
indeed and the EU would not seek to make any kind of legal arrangement - unless of course people want a civil war with competing governments claiming legitimacy - I think some people have been sent so mad by Brexit they would argue themselves into thinking that was the 'principled' thing to do.
In a normal life or business decision where you are unable to get the favoured option stack up, you would put it on hold. In effect cancel it, although you may revisit later.
Revoking will cause avoid a proper national emergency
Corrected that for you.
You're welcome.
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at all
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrest
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.
If you're dreaming of getting EU collusion, I think any emergency solution will be around a long extension rather than revoke. IMO, revoke without a referendum is still very much a minority sport.
That is not what I said. It is possible to use revoke as a way to avoid EU collusion!
The Zambian authorities have banned an energy drink after a Ugandan man complained it had caused him to have a prolonged erection.
Power Natural High Energy Drink SX, which is made in Zambia, is not marketed as a sexual aid. But an investigation by Ugandan health authorities in December found that the beverage contained Sildenafil Citrata - the active ingredient in Viagra.
In more important news than Brexit; I would like to point out to Pointless fans that the capital of Kazakhstan has changed from Astana to Nursultan, surely a new pointless answer.
I think you're proving my point. Now simmer down and explain a simple solution (apart from the bad deal I mentioned) which will stop you and others becoming more and more demented?
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
I agree we need a second referendum - how do we get one if the EU doesn't allow an extension?
Revoke while anouncing the date of a second referendum.
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
People may be fed up with it now, but they will be annoyed as soon as something they wanted is no longer possible..
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result." https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result." https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
Keep referencing an old survey about a different petition if it makes you feel happier...
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result." https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
Keep referencing an old survey about a different petition if it makes you feel happier...
Since you must have missed the first time it was posted...
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result." https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
Keep referencing an old survey about a different petition if it makes you feel happier...
Apologies - I thought it was relevant. I accept that the current petition is gaining signatures fast. I wonder whether the geographic split will be similar?
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
Perhaps a theme but for most people background noise rather than front and centre. Whicht is what, I think, without putting words in his mouth, anothernick was suggesting. Certainly, where I’m sitting now, life goes on as normal and there are, as far as I can tell, no union jack underpants wearers or people humming ode to joy in grenade lobbing distance. The airport this morning was no different to normal.
For you it’s perhaps central to your life but don’t suggest that’s the case for everybody.
Comments
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
All the other avenues have been blocked off either by process, time compression or indeed just their perilous nature.
I find it hard to believe there will be very enough EU supporting zealots who will be brave enough to press the nuclear revoke button when the deal is still available.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/top_scores_video_game_music
On topic, Sterling taking a bath again.
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
I'd welcome other views.
Yes, in the least surprising news of the day, the frothing europhobes' deepest fantasies turn out to be exactly that.
It's a joke by the MPs surely. "I was going to vote for it, but Mrs May dissed me, so civil war it is." Are they adults?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Maybe that's why May is so hostile. It assists the opposition. By comparison, the fact that it gets the country out of a hole is of relatively little importance.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1108724428815388672?s=19
We had a referendum on something that only a few people were bothered about. Now we have a massive split, real anger, and no easy way to solve it as positions become entrenched. Once you pick and choose your democracy, you've lost it. Telling people to simmer down won't do.
What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
The Zambian authorities have banned an energy drink after a Ugandan man complained it had caused him to have a prolonged erection.
Power Natural High Energy Drink SX, which is made in Zambia, is not marketed as a sexual aid. But an investigation by Ugandan health authorities in December found that the beverage contained Sildenafil Citrata - the active ingredient in Viagra.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47654020
"Civil War??? FFS Grow up."
I think you're proving my point. Now simmer down and explain a simple solution (apart from the bad deal I mentioned) which will stop you and others becoming more and more demented?
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
As far as I can tell, there is only one poll that puts No Deal against Revoke, from Survation, in December. Helpfully, it's 49% to 51%.
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/1108701393836302336
L'Acadamie Francaise ain't gonna like that!
For you it’s perhaps central to your life but don’t suggest that’s the case for everybody.