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  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,876

    GIN1138 said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Not as daft as it sounds. It would be hard not to give the members a say this time round and so the best time to run a Con leadership contest would be over the summer.
    Yep - the Tories elect a leader in June / July followed by a general election in late October...
    Well that's OK.

    The problem is the small matter of the 3 months where we apparently have a Prime Minister nobody has ever heard of or voted for foisted upon us with the sole aim of pissing all over the 2016 referendum.

    The referendum result is only not delivered if we do not legally leave the EU. No Tory leader would countenance that.

    And the membership are then going to elect somebody pledged to unravelling the Lidington Super-shit Deal agreed in the meantime.

    That will require a general election with a manifesto pledging to open up everything once more and a result that delivers enough MPs to vote such a policy through.

  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Showing my ignorance here and probably should know the answer, but who is the man in the photo?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    bunnco said:

    Feel sorry for me. Just about to send 46 meticulously prepared local election leaflets and pledge cards to the printers. #BackToTheDrawingBoard

    Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot

    At least you didn’t send them yesterday!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Sean_F said:


    In an ideal world, each and every Conservative MP would be taken out and shot. Then a new party could be formed from scratch.

    If the ERG VONC the government a lot of Tory MPs will get the democratic alternative. How much of Tory poll leads is propped up by May (what ever MPs or the commentariat think?)
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    edited March 2019
    Commentator TY for replying. You are clearly not a previous poster from around 2005 who was a CON female poster who posted as test then commentator or the other way round
    Mike and possibly Jack W will recall this
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    LucyJones said:

    Showing my ignorance here and probably should know the answer, but who is the man in the photo?
    Grayling
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    Whose Mrs Hinch?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Sean_F said:

    The Conservative Party has been dysfunctional all my adult life. It's MP's see their primary role as sticking the knife into each other, and bringing down the leader of the day. They shit on their own voters endlessly. May is useless, but no doubt they'll install someone else who's useless.

    In an ideal world, each and every Conservative MP would be taken out and shot. Then a new party could be formed from scratch.

    Why limit yourself to the Tories?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Welcome back iSam

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    While accepting that May faces a terminal loss of support, some senior ministers are also warning that toppling her now would unleash a general election and a leadership fight that would be “toxic” for the Tories. “It is much better that one person is held responsible for all this mess,” said one senior minister.“If you get shot of her this week, you can almost guarantee an election and a whole set of problems.”

    There is no clear plan of what would happen should May stand down. Some assume that her de facto deputy, David Lidington, would take over. However, seen as a pro-Remain minister, he would also face serious challenges from Tory MPs if he attempted to engineer a soft Brexit. One minister said: “The idea that everyone would step back and allow David Lidington to deliver a soft Brexit is absurd.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/23/tory-remainers-brexiters-say-theresa-may-in-end-days?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1553372157
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    LucyJones said:

    Showing my ignorance here and probably should know the answer, but who is the man in the photo?
    Grayling
    Thanks, of course. It was the hard hat that threw me.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Ave_it said:

    Commentator TY for replying. You are clearly not a previous poster from around 2005 who was a CON female poster who posted as test then commentator or the other way round
    Mike and possibly Jack W will recall this

    I remember Test :D
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Test
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Scott_P said:

    The EU have said "agreed WA" or "new plan", not "more faffing around".

    General Elections sounds like "new plan" to me, especially if followed by another referendum and cancellation...
    What "new plan" might emerge from a GE? No guarantee of either another referendum or a cancellation. Despite what Tory MPs & the Cabinet thinks May is still more popular than them - they go to the country after ousting her and they'll get massacred.
    A succinct observation - this is so Westminster driven. A lot of Tory Leave voters (70-75% of their support) will think May spoke some home truths to MPs in her accurate but politically ill-judged outburst the other night.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Grayling is ferry good 🙂
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    dots said:

    Whose Mrs Hinch?

    She has a YouTube and/or instagram account about keeping a boast-worthy clean and tidy house, I believe.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    isam said:

    LucyJones said:

    Good to see you back, isam

    Thank you Lucy
    isam said:

    LucyJones said:

    Good to see you back, isam

    Thank you Lucy
    It’s like the day of the dead here today
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    Charles said:

    Welcome back iSam

    Thank you Charles.

    I sent some money to someone in the week that banks with you!
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    LucyJones said:

    dots said:

    Whose Mrs Hinch?

    She has a YouTube and/or instagram account about keeping a boast-worthy clean and tidy house, I believe.
    What’s her number?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Welcome back iSam

    Thank you Charles.

    I sent some money to someone in the week that banks with you!
    The closest that a retail customer can get to banking with the Bank of England was how one paper described us the other day...
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    edited March 2019

    While accepting that May faces a terminal loss of support, some senior ministers are also warning that toppling her now would unleash a general election and a leadership fight that would be “toxic” for the Tories. “It is much better that one person is held responsible for all this mess,” said one senior minister.“If you get shot of her this week, you can almost guarantee an election and a whole set of problems.”

    There is no clear plan of what would happen should May stand down. Some assume that her de facto deputy, David Lidington, would take over. However, seen as a pro-Remain minister, he would also face serious challenges from Tory MPs if he attempted to engineer a soft Brexit. One minister said: “The idea that everyone would step back and allow David Lidington to deliver a soft Brexit is absurd.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/23/tory-remainers-brexiters-say-theresa-may-in-end-days?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1553372157

    It’s a very good point. Even if one of them wanted to fly over and ask for long extension and take part in EU elections, is there majority support in cabinet for that? Would they go with blessing of more than half The party membership, and more than half voters keeping them where they are in opinion polls supporting that action?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Welcome back iSam

    Thank you Charles.

    I sent some money to someone in the week that banks with you!
    The closest that a retail customer can get to banking with the Bank of England was how one paper described us the other day...
    I once handled an actual Bank of England cheque.

    Sadly, it was in a pre-camera phone age, as I would have like to have recorded the occasion.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955

    Sean_F said:


    In an ideal world, each and every Conservative MP would be taken out and shot. Then a new party could be formed from scratch.

    If the ERG VONC the government a lot of Tory MPs will get the democratic alternative. How much of Tory poll leads is propped up by May (what ever MPs or the commentariat think?)
    That Tory poll lead is not propped up by any personal vote for May as such, but rather what May stands for: the office of a PM who is trying to deliver Brexit against the forces of Remain. A somewhat more competent PM trying to deliver Brexit against the forces of Remain would probably poll at least as well. A Conservative PM trying to dismantle Brexit would have the Party polling in the mid-20s.

    Task for the Tories: find a somewhat more comptent PM to deliver Brexit. HINT: Lidington is not that person.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Am I missing something here? If Tezza goes, by what mechanism do the cabinet install a new leader without consulting MPs, and almost certainly the members?

    Presumably the bookies wouldn't pay out on a temporary leader, while awaiting a permanent one.

    PM not leader.
    Baldrick++
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    dixiedean said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Am I missing something here? If Tezza goes, by what mechanism do the cabinet install a new leader without consulting MPs, and almost certainly the members?

    Presumably the bookies wouldn't pay out on a temporary leader, while awaiting a permanent one.

    PM not leader.
    Baldrick++
    Baldrick - - without the cunning.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Sean_F said:


    In an ideal world, each and every Conservative MP would be taken out and shot. Then a new party could be formed from scratch.

    If the ERG VONC the government a lot of Tory MPs will get the democratic alternative. How much of Tory poll leads is propped up by May (what ever MPs or the commentariat think?)
    That Tory poll lead is not propped up by any personal vote for May as such
    May is still more popular than the party or the government - and none of her likely successors 'stand out' as an obvious replacement. If the Cabinet thinks replacing her is a "quick fix" they are seriously deluded.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:


    The argument is not on the WA but the PD, the latter is what most of the indicative votes would be on, once a new PD was agreed the WA would pass as it is just really about the technicalities of Brexit

    The PD isn't legally binding and we know that nearly all Tories oppose making brexit softer, and the ERG and DUP are good at getting their way. If I'm a Labour MP voting for the current WA, why would I trust the government to deliver the CU?
    For goodness sake once the WA is passed it is passed, the PD is the basis of the future relationship shifted in a BINO direction but to be voted on and determined in the future once the negotiations on a future relationship have eventually been agreed.

    The ERG and DUP have also not got their way, if they had we would be leaving with No Deal on Friday, instead Parliament voted both to rule out No Deal and to extend Art 50

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Welcome back iSam

    Thank you Charles.

    I sent some money to someone in the week that banks with you!
    The closest that a retail customer can get to banking with the Bank of England was how one paper described us the other day...
    I once handled an actual Bank of England cheque.

    Sadly, it was in a pre-camera phone age, as I would have like to have recorded the occasion.
    It used to be common in the days when the BoE and Merchant Banks ran accounts for their employees.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    It's not that surprising is it? I mean, Cabinet Members have been threatening to resign to get their way for a long time, forcing May to stand down is in the same vein.

    But if Lidington will do a deal with Labour then he should be the one chosen - that will at least see Brexit done, whereas people who want to go harder will just see Remain done.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Sean_F said:

    The Conservative Party has been dysfunctional all my adult life. It's MP's see their primary role as sticking the knife into each other, and bringing down the leader of the day. They shit on their own voters endlessly. May is useless, but no doubt they'll install someone else who's useless.

    In an ideal world, each and every Conservative MP would be taken out and shot. Then a new party could be formed from scratch.

    Both the Tory and Labour Parties are now essentially Coalitions, the Tories of No Dealers and potential TIG, Labour of Corbynistas and potential TIG
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    GIN1138 said:

    Time for a general election and a Corbyn government.

    The Tories have taken complete leave of their senses...

    A Corbyn government really does mean BINO or EUref2
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    So if Peston is right really nothing has changed, since the only reason May is still in place is because no one wants the job now, they want the direction of Brexit made clear and then they want to take over?

    The only difference seems to be that they are admitting that, even though the 'May as lightning rod for Brexit' policy has been speculated on for, well, years?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    The current government is still at least level pegging with Corbyn Labour
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    A coup? Now?

    Lord have mercy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Oliver said:

    The Conservative party is about to implode before our eyes.

    It pains me to say it, but I think there's a good chance Corbyn is PM by the end of the year.

    Quite probably, and frankly I don't care about that anymore. If they can at least get something on Brexit done before they completely implode that will be something.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Paul Goodman:

    None the less, our message to them this morning is: be careful what you wish for. A post-April 12 Prime Ministerial departure works. A pre-April 12 one doesn’t. The Conservative Party is like a man stuck in a swamp. If he keeps his head, he can work his way out of it. If he loses it, he will be sucked into the depths. Lidington Now, Gove Now, Hunt Now, Anyone Now – to attempt anything like this is to flail and thrash about. It will only drag the Party deeper into the swamp which threatens to drown it.

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/03/try-a-coronation-get-an-uprising-may-should-go-mid-april-but-not-before-and-heres-why.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kle4 said:

    So if Peston is right really nothing has changed, since the only reason May is still in place is because no one wants the job now, they want the direction of Brexit made clear and then they want to take over?

    The only difference seems to be that they are admitting that, even though the 'May as lightning rod for Brexit' policy has been speculated on for, well, years?
    What they are saying is perfectly sensible, the indicative votes have to be held first and the Brexit withdrawal process completed first before the leadership is reexamined
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Welcome back iSam

    Thank you Charles.

    I sent some money to someone in the week that banks with you!
    The closest that a retail customer can get to banking with the Bank of England was how one paper described us the other day...
    I once handled an actual Bank of England cheque.

    Sadly, it was in a pre-camera phone age, as I would have like to have recorded the occasion.
    My first holiday job as a student was handing over certs of deposits, by hand, for Hansen Trust. First job, first day, £17m. Everybody thought I was a high flyer. £5.50ph through a temp agency.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    So if Peston is right really nothing has changed, since the only reason May is still in place is because no one wants the job now, they want the direction of Brexit made clear and then they want to take over?

    The only difference seems to be that they are admitting that, even though the 'May as lightning rod for Brexit' policy has been speculated on for, well, years?
    What they are saying is perfectly sensible, the indicative votes have to be held first and the Brexit withdrawal process completed first before the leadership is reexamined
    My point was that the idea that May should not be removed until the withdrawal process has been completed has been an obvious ploy for absolutely bloody ages and a very significant factor in why she is still there at all, so why start leaking to journalists that the coup is on right now? All it seems to have accomplished is show they still have no agreement on anything so pre announcing the coup is pointless.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited March 2019
    If they do foist Lidington on us unopposed at least Farage will be able to do his "Who Are You" ? speech for a home audience. :D
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    But, so typical. They agree they want to get rid of May, but haven't a clue what else they want to do.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Time for a general election and a Corbyn government.

    The Tories have taken complete leave of their senses...

    A Corbyn government really does mean BINO or EUref2
    At this point I'm beyond caring. I just want the agony the Tories are inflicting on us to end...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited March 2019
    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Welcome back Isam by the way. :)

    Nice to see you back posting. :D

    Cheers... I had forgotten what my avatar was... spent a looong time in the box!
    Welcome back. OGH dishing out the pardons in honour of the 15th birthday??
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    edited March 2019
    isam said:

    LucyJones said:

    Good to see you back, isam

    Thank you Lucy
    Welcome back !
    Will you be on the kipper slate for euroelections ?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    LucyJones said:

    Showing my ignorance here and probably should know the answer, but who is the man in the photo?
    Grayling
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Can I just say, that earlier to today I posted that Monday was the day for end of May?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    But, so typical. They agree they want to get rid of May, but haven't a clue what else they want to do.
    It's madness. May has completely lost control of things, undoubtedly, and parliament looks set to engage in a round of chaotic voting which, hopefully at least, will result in some foward progress, but I still don't see what the Cabinet plotters think is going to happen now.

    She goes next week, and the underlying situation remains the same and the WA cannot pass the Commons, and nothing else commands overwhelming support in the party and some would actively trigger splits. As terrible as May is what actually is improved by replacing her with...nothing, essentially? Someone else who lacks support of the party or numbers in parliament for anything is not exactly going to be decisive new PM. Their first days would be spent replacing 1/2 to 1/4 of the Cabinet depending on who it is.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    The Tories need to:

    i) Get 'Brexit' over some sort of line - ideally with the WA agreed, if not punted into the very long grass (which they'll pay dearly for, starting in May in the local and Euro elections)

    then

    ii) Sort out the leadership. Then give the new leader until 2022 before facing the country.

    If they try ii) before i) they'll get massacred, and deserve it.

    The question is, can May get i) done?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Can I say, the idea that not involving the Tory membership would cause a row is one of the most insane things I've seen. Can any MP really say in all honesty that even if replacing May with someone equally unable to command a majority and without any plan is a good idea, that it should be held up for a members contest?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    The Tories need to:

    i) Get 'Brexit' over some sort of line - ideally with the WA agreed, if not punted into the very long grass (which they'll pay dearly for, starting in May in the local and Euro elections)

    then

    ii) Sort out the leadership. Then give the new leader until 2022 before facing the country.

    If they try ii) before i) they'll get massacred, and deserve it.
    Tell that to the Cabinet. They've just done that apparently. Stories this detailed are not just hearsay.

    And many Tories still seem to think a GE is a good thing. I don't know how they do it, but I think the party's best shot is as you suggest dragging it out the full length of the parliament to given them time to recover and rebuild with a new leader. But they don't seem to agree, heck, they think replacing one person with no plan with another with no plan will make a difference!
  • dotsdots Posts: 615

    Sean_F said:


    In an ideal world, each and every Conservative MP would be taken out and shot. Then a new party could be formed from scratch.

    If the ERG VONC the government a lot of Tory MPs will get the democratic alternative. How much of Tory poll leads is propped up by May (what ever MPs or the commentariat think?)
    That Tory poll lead is not propped up by any personal vote for May as such
    May is still more popular than the party or the government - and none of her likely successors 'stand out' as an obvious replacement. If the Cabinet thinks replacing her is a "quick fix" they are seriously deluded.
    I agree. Mays position that is causing her so much grief is simply representing the majority view in her cabinet, the majority view in her party, and a huge block of the electorate still right behind that position, in fact many would even go further now and choose Clean brexit if they can’t have this WA. It’s not May’s incompetence or intransigence that created the red lines that drafted the type of brexit deal that didn’t get approved, the red lines belong to the membership of her party, and the party’s current voter base. The actual problem is getting that deal agreed with EU through the house and doesn’t disappear with May, because she is not the architect or owner of it. Nor is she the architect of the difficulty of getting it through the house, though she owns this as a problem. The thing that gets approved by the house, indicative votes next week or as Mr Herdson explained do this several years ago, has never an option and never will be, because it’s a type of brexit her party and the huge staunch block of leave voters can ever countenance. Even by removing May you are still left with that inability to either revoke or ask to join the EU elections.

    The only way out I can see for the conservatives to avoid all out civil war is a leaver ref back to the people, with the WA on it and no remain option. But there is no time for that now without long extension and participating in EU elections.

    If the WA can’t get through Parliament the Conservative Party has but one option, May or no May they have to manage no deal brexit as best they can.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    So they Mail is saying the Chief Whip tearfully told May she had betrayed Brexit. I must confess I must have missed that. Last I checked however incompetent she has been she at least tried to deliver Brexit, unlike a great many of the Tory party.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    The Tories need to:

    i) Get 'Brexit' over some sort of line - ideally with the WA agreed, if not punted into the very long grass (which they'll pay dearly for, starting in May in the local and Euro elections)

    then

    ii) Sort out the leadership. Then give the new leader until 2022 before facing the country.

    If they try ii) before i) they'll get massacred, and deserve it.
    Tell that to the Cabinet. They've just done that apparently. Stories this detailed are not just hearsay.

    And many Tories still seem to think a GE is a good thing. I don't know how they do it, but I think the party's best shot is as you suggest dragging it out the full length of the parliament to given them time to recover and rebuild with a new leader. But they don't seem to agree, heck, they think replacing one person with no plan with another with no plan will make a difference!
    They deserve to be massacred, but if they are, we're the ones who will suffer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    I'm going to bed, but this stuff is just bananas. These are the people who are going to tell me Corbyn cannot be let near the rungs of power? Even as they work day and night to show a level of incompetence that shows that however bad he would be - which is probably really bad - it cannot be worse than this. And that's not just on May, it is the whole damn lot of them. A party led by weaklings and fools, and riven with extremist factions at constant war with one another.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244
    I think David Moyes would a good caretaker PM, kept West Ham up and might encourage a few more SNP marginalists to vote Tory
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    kle4 said:

    I'm going to bed, but this stuff is just bananas. These are the people who are going to tell me Corbyn cannot be let near the rungs of power? Even as they work day and night to show a level of incompetence that shows that however bad he would be - which is probably really bad - it cannot be worse than this. And that's not just on May, it is the whole damn lot of them. A party led by weaklings and fools, and riven with extremist factions at constant war with one another.

    Preach.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Aw

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    The Tories need to:

    i) Get 'Brexit' over some sort of line - ideally with the WA agreed, if not punted into the very long grass (which they'll pay dearly for, starting in May in the local and Euro elections)

    then

    ii) Sort out the leadership. Then give the new leader until 2022 before facing the country.

    If they try ii) before i) they'll get massacred, and deserve it.
    Tell that to the Cabinet. They've just done that apparently. Stories this detailed are not just hearsay.

    And many Tories still seem to think a GE is a good thing. I don't know how they do it, but I think the party's best shot is as you suggest dragging it out the full length of the parliament to given them time to recover and rebuild with a new leader. But they don't seem to agree, heck, they think replacing one person with no plan with another with no plan will make a difference!
    They deserve to be massacred, but if they are, we're the ones who will suffer.
    Twas ever thus. All they have to do is agreed on a least worst form of Brexit, rally behind that, and they can survive for at least a few more years in office.

    But they'd rather throw it all away, not achieve any kind of cohesive Brexit, and throw away any chance to do anything else in government. Real smart people.

    I'd rather vote SNP right now. I disagree completely with their most fundamental policy, but at least i know they won't be doing something monumentally stupid every day.
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244
    Plus he's an expert in guiding people out of Europe without getting sacked.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
    Then they should agree a customs union or whatever it will take to see some form of Brexit delivered, because at the moment Brexit not being delivered at all is quite possible, and the Cabinet clearly have no plan to change that given they are still resisting every back up plan.

    Extinction would be well deserved - something would emerge in its place in time.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
    Then they should agree a customs union or whatever it will take to see some form of Brexit delivered, because at the moment Brexit not being delivered at all is quite possible, and the Cabinet clearly have no plan to change that given they are still resisting every back up plan.

    Extinction would be well deserved - something would emerge in its place in time.
    It’s all very well to write off the Tory Party. You might have a different view after a decade of a hard left government.

    Anyway, bedtime.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
    Then they should agree a customs union or whatever it will take to see some form of Brexit delivered, because at the moment Brexit not being delivered at all is quite possible, and the Cabinet clearly have no plan to change that given they are still resisting every back up plan.

    Extinction would be well deserved - something would emerge in its place in time.
    It’s all very well to write off the Tory Party. You might have a different view after a decade of a hard left government.

    Anyway, bedtime.
    Watson is the one to watch in all this .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Nice one TSE. But I am on Liddington at 140. :smiley:

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    I know absolutely nobody is interested in this or will listen. But there is no such thing as a "temporary" or "interim" PM in the Westminster System. Whoever succeeds May as PM will be the PM, with all the powers of the job.
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244


    Watson is the one to watch in all this .

    After 9 years of a Tory/Coalition austerity led regime we are now stockpiling medicine and operating from a nuclear bunker. I'd love to see a decade of left wing reform
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
    You sum it up very well Royal. But there are so many posting here who’s allegiance and concern for other parties, so can’t get their brains round why you are right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can
    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
    Then they stime.
    It’s all very well to write off the Tory Party. You might have a different view after a decade of a hard left government.

    A decade of hard left government may be what we need to ensure we get a party of the right worth voting for. Corbyn no longer frightens and it entirely self inflicted because of Tory ultras.
    viewcode said:

    I know absolutely nobody is interested in this or will listen. But there is no such thing as a "temporary" or "interim" PM in the Westminster System. Whoever succeeds May as PM will be the PM, with all the powers of the job.

    Yes, but it's just being more casual in description for someone who would, perhaps openly, state they would only hold the post for awhile, so it is clear enough even if legally the status is no different
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    RoyalBlue said:

    ...If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members...

    That's quite an assumption.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kle4 said:

    Awfully specific to mention 11 Cabinet ministers. Almost feels like they have to make a move now, since it has been declared whether they wanted it to happen or not.

    But it doesn't seem like they have any sort of agreed plan for how to get Brexit through, so it really is just another displacement activity. I think everyone on earth who is not a piece of plankton can see that May is a hindrance to any solution now, but even so just declaring she must go without any agreement on what to do doesn't seem likely to improve matters any. You'd just be swapping one person who lacks the votes for anything for another.

    These idiots really do just want to depress us completely.

    Maybe May should jump the gun and go the Palace to resign tomorrow, and name Lidington as the man to take over. The PM is meant to command the confidence of the Commons, and it is quite clear that there is not one who can command the shared confidence of the Cabinet, let alone the Commons, so it hardly matters if she names him and he struggles to unify things.

    If she does that, the ERG may well refuse to support the government in a vote of confidence. An election will follow, which the Tories will fight with a leader and PM who no-one has heard of. We will be massacred.

    It will probably be what happens.
    If you can think of a Brexit scenario which does not end in the Tories getting massacred at a GE I'd love to hear it, because I cannot see it - either the ERG win and we no deal and the party splits, or some kind of arrangement is suggested/approved which the ERG refuse to accept and the party splits.

    No option seems able to avoid at least a small split, and any amount means they fall, we have a GE where they have a leader no one has heard or/likes, and they lose.
    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.
    Then they should agree a custod - something would emerge in its place in time.
    It’s all very well to write off the Tory Party. You might have a different view after a decade of a hard left government.

    Anyway, bedtime.
    There won't be a 'decade of hard left government' a Corbyn minority government, propped up by the SNP in all likelihood, would be trailing badly behind a Boris led Tory opposition within a year, it would be Hollande in France but worse. It may even take Umunna to do a Macron and keep Boris out of No 10
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    RoyalBlue said:


    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.

    I don't think that's an extinction-level event: They'd mostly be losing crazy people and they'd still have the brand. More like a forest fire.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764



    Watson is the one to watch in all this .

    After 9 years of a Tory/Coalition austerity led regime we are now stockpiling medicine and operating from a nuclear bunker. I'd love to see a decade of left wing reform


    The current performance of the economy suggests there is much to be said for useless government
  • Betfair has May's Exit date between April-June 2019 at backing odds of 1.01, i.e. 1/100 in old money. Now that's what I call toast!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    TMay must be exhausted. She should take a week off and leave Parliament to do its thing, come back in April and see what they come up with.
  • viewcode said:

    I know absolutely nobody is interested in this or will listen. But there is no such thing as a "temporary" or "interim" PM in the Westminster System. Whoever succeeds May as PM will be the PM, with all the powers of the job.

    Not if he/she undertakes not to stand in the full contested contest to be held 6 months hence, which according to reports is the deal which Lidington has agreed to in taking temporary charge.
  • TMay must be exhausted. She should take a week off and leave Parliament to do its thing, come back in April and see what they come up with.

    Yes, especially so considering she is a diabetic. One has to be rather surprised that according to reports, her husband is urging her not to resign but to tough it out.
  • kle4 said:


    I'd rather vote SNP right now. I disagree completely with their most fundamental policy, but at least i know they won't be doing something monumentally stupid every day.

    Their leader gave a speech against independence today.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    viewcode said:

    I know absolutely nobody is interested in this or will listen. But there is no such thing as a "temporary" or "interim" PM in the Westminster System. Whoever succeeds May as PM will be the PM, with all the powers of the job.

    Yes. And the chances of 'now is not quite the right time' for any replacement must be high.

    Though the idea of May handing over the reigns of PM while remaining Party Leader, then resigning and having a full process leadership election while the interim PM stays in place might force the matter, especially if the interim PM couldn't go on the ballot.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    I can't believe even the tories think David Fucking Lidington is the answer to anything. Constitutional crisis and political deadlock that sees us staring into the slavering jaws of economic ruin? Well then let's anoint a crumpled looking homoskeptical apparatchik who nobody has heard of as the PM.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    TMay must be exhausted. She should take a week off and leave Parliament to do its thing, come back in April and see what they come up with.

    One has to be rather surprised that according to reports, her husband is urging her not to resign but to tough it out.
    I very much doubt anyone knows what Philip's advice to Theresa is, other than they themselves.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    RoyalBlue said:


    If we leave with no deal, the party may lose up to 10 MPs and a few members. If Brexit is not delivered, the party will lose 100 MPs and a majority of its membership.

    The latter is an extinction level event.

    I don't think that's an extinction-level event: They'd mostly be losing crazy people and they'd still have the brand. More like a forest fire.
    Good analogy. There’ll always be a place for a centre-right party capable of governing, and if the Tories want it to be them, clearing out the crazies would be a better starting point than driving away the sane.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Mail on Sunday:

    After a torturous 14 hours at the EU Council, the Prime Minister returned to the British residency in Brussels in the early hours of Friday morning and demanded a large whisky.

    But back in Westminster, her closest Cabinet colleagues were preparing to hand Theresa May a revolver to go with it.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6843159/Theresa-told-ministers-plot-install-Michael-Gove-No-10-save-Brexit.html
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited March 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    I can't believe even the tories think David Fucking Lidington is the answer to anything. Constitutional crisis and political deadlock that sees us staring into the slavering jaws of economic ruin? Well then let's anoint a crumpled looking homoskeptical apparatchik who nobody has heard of as the PM.

    Are we seriously going to end up with someone called 'Lidders' as PM who 99% of the public will never have heard of and whose main claim to fame is winning University Challenge? With his prime objective being to deliver Labour's preferred version of Brexit?

    The only reason he would be the answer is if you were after the top job and wanted someone who wouldn't last long or have much support to be the interim. Problem is as we have found with Mrs May once you have the job of PM it can be rather tough to remove you.

    Shouldn't first dibbs go to the person who came second in the last leadership contest and who according to polls is the most popular Cabinet minister amongst Tory activists. Her regular catfights with the Speaker are one of the few highlights of the last few weeks! Leadsom for leader anyone?...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    When all this shit is over the country is going to have to be de torified like the De-Ba'athification of Iraq.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Net satisfied scores (OA):

    Govt: -74 (Con: -46)
    May: -36 (Con: +31)
    Corbyn: -51 (Lab: +2)

    So there's a 77 point gap in satisfaction among Con voters between the Government & Mrs May. While its true the government's rating can't have much further to fall, replacing Mrs May is unlikely to improve it - unlike the case when Thatcher was ousted.

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-03/ipsos-mori-political-monitor-march-2019-tables.pdf
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Do you think each of the following has done a good job or a bad job at handling Britain's exit from the European Union? Net 'Good':

    Govt: -76 (Con: -56)
    May: -35 (Con: +19)
    EU: -24

    Support delay in UK leaving EU (net)
    3 months: +10 (Con: -7)
    2 Years: -24 (Con: -62)

    So Lidington "2 year delay" is the man for the job?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Can't believe this is the lead story rather than the Mueller Report ... LOL
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    MTimT said:

    Can't believe this is the lead story rather than the Mueller Report ... LOL

    What do we know this evening we didn’t know this morning?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    brendan16 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I can't believe even the tories think David Fucking Lidington is the answer to anything. Constitutional crisis and political deadlock that sees us staring into the slavering jaws of economic ruin? Well then let's anoint a crumpled looking homoskeptical apparatchik who nobody has heard of as the PM.

    Are we seriously going to end up with someone called 'Lidders' as PM who 99% of the public will never have heard of and whose main claim to fame is winning University Challenge? With his prime objective being to deliver Labour's preferred version of Brexit?

    The only reason he would be the answer is if you were after the top job and wanted someone who wouldn't last long or have much support to be the interim. Problem is as we have found with Mrs May once you have the job of PM it can be rather tough to remove you.

    Shouldn't first dibbs go to the person who came second in the last leadership contest and who according to polls is the most popular Cabinet minister amongst Tory activists. Her regular catfights with the Speaker are one of the few highlights of the last few weeks! Leadsom for leader anyone?...
    The first sentence of your second para has the answer. And the eventual leadership contest deals with the last sentence of the same para.

    There's a dirty job to do and someone has to step up and take the crap.
This discussion has been closed.