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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Pete Buttigieg – the 37 year old former Rhodes Scholar now run

SystemSystem Posts: 11,003
edited March 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Pete Buttigieg – the 37 year old former Rhodes Scholar now running 3rd in Iowa

A new poll for next year’s Iowa caucuses is just out and puts a 37 year old former Rhodes Scholar from Indiana who you have probably never heard of in 3rd place.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210
    First!
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    edited March 2019
    I know the Mueller Report was something of an unknown before, but I do remain shocked that Trump to be renominated was 1.67 on Betfair as recently as the first week of January.

    On topic: One poll does not '3rd in Iowa' make. Given his national and other Iowa polling it's highly likely to be an outlier at this stage. I like Buttigieg but he'll need a lot more polling like this to get his fundraising up, otherwise he's unlikely to survive to Iowa. We forget that most campaigns don't end on Super Tuesday, they run out of cash and are practically (and sometimes officially) shut down before a vote is cast.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    The list must already be longer than that of 2016.

    Has Biden officially ruled himself in or out yet?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited March 2019
    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    One hopes that this round of elections gives the message to that generation to leave the stage. They won’t though. The baby boomers (and WW2 children) think think they are the greatest generation. Only death will convince them otherwise.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    Excellent Mike. Can I just say I punted Buttigieg on this forum several weeks ago following some tweets from David Axelrod about how exciting this young man was?

    Good luck to any who followed my tip.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    edited March 2019

    The list must already be longer than that of 2016.

    Has Biden officially ruled himself in or out yet?

    Still thinking. Just about everyone and his dog thinks he will run though and will announce any day now.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited March 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For context every Mayor of South Bend since 1972 has been a Democrat as are all but one of its city councillors. On that basis South Bend where Buttigieg is Mayor is even more liberal than California

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Bend,_Indiana
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they one of them.

    A new USA today poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    “One term of his party” is a clever sleight of hand to give you the statistic that you want.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210
    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    This will eventually be picked up on. Actually, a big danger for each of them on this front is the other. If they both run and, say, Joe Biden has a fall or whatever, then the same questions about age will be asked of Bernie Sanders.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    matt said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they one of them.

    A new USA today poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    “One term of his party” is a clever sleight of hand to give you the statistic that you want.
    Well those are the facts, Trump will be seeking re election after only one term of his party in the White House. If you don't like the stat, tough
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    This will eventually be picked up on. Actually, a big danger for each of them on this front is the other. If they both run and, say, Joe Biden has a fall or whatever, then the same questions about age will be asked of Bernie Sanders.
    Polling also shows Biden votets second choice is Sanders and visa versa
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    matt said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they one of them.

    A new USA today poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    “One term of his party” is a clever sleight of hand to give you the statistic that you want.
    Well those are the facts, Trump will be seeking re election after only one term of his party in the White House. If you don't like the stat, tough
    https://xkcd.com/1122/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,572
    Today the consideration for members of the cabinet who fancy the top job for themselves is are we far enough down the road for all of the shit to stick to Tezzie? If so then yes it is time to get rid, if not then the start of your premiership would be full of blame and you would be unlikely to recover. Timing is everything when it comes to dumping May .
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210
    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    The real question is whether we would revoke if we get to the end of the road at the clifftop. I think we would.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,572
    Off topic: I made my previous post from the middle of Standedge Tunnel. Impressive wifi on TPExpress!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited March 2019
    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    Yes but the Commons would vote to participate in the EU Parliament elections over No Deal, whichever option wins the indicative votes in the Commons will also show the EU where an Agreement is likely to pass, assuming the Commons does not vote to revoke Article 50 or for No Deal
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    So why are you quoting national polling to support your arguments (not that it exactly demonstrates overwhelming Trump victories against anyone)?

    One wonders why Trump even bothered to stand for election himself (maybe he thought the polls in 2014 weren’t a decisive indicator...)
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,879

    Off topic: I made my previous post from the middle of Standedge Tunnel. Impressive wifi on TPExpress!

    It would be really impressive if you'd made it from the middle of one of the three other Standedge Tunnels. ;)
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    Yes but the Commons would vote to participate in the EU Parliament elections over No Deal, whichever option wins the indicative votes in the Commons will also show the EU where an Agreement is likely to pass, assuming the Commons does not vote to revoke Article 50 or for No Deal
    It sounds as if the “indicative votes” will be amended to include options the EU is not prepared to give. Also other than “revoke” and “no deal” they will all require the passing of the Withdrawal Agreement to be implemented anyway. Which is no doubt the point that May will make if one of the “alternatives” is passed. AGAIN!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
    The GOP also won the midterms in 2010 then Romney lost to Obama in 2012
  • Options
    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    And that decision on taking part in the EU elections fro m the 12th April is mandatory otherwise it is no deal or TM deal (or similar)
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,572
    Reflecting on the next PM, since Thatcher (evil) we have had a pattern:

    Major (crap)
    Blair (style over substance)
    Brown (crap)
    Cameron (style over substance)
    May (crap

    No wonder Chuka thinks the job should be his. However, who from the Tory ranks is the charismatic empty suit to sustain the pattern?

    It would be nice if they broke with tradition and just chose someone competent. Or is that too much to ask?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Seems the Democrats were hoping Trump's former antics woud lose the election. Now they have to go out and win it instead.... They have a wide field, none of whom fill me with confidence they can beat Trump. He is a low-down wily political operator. It wins elections. Who in the Democrat field could go toe-to-toe with Trump in a vicious smack-down?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    And idle thought.

    Given Trump’s tendency to change personel, what chance a new running mate in 2020? I am sure he would be tempted by a Nelly The Elephant dream ticket: Trump Trump.

  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:
    But we can invoke the Blitz spirit as well!
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    The real question is whether we would revoke if we get to the end of the road at the clifftop. I think we would.
    And that option expires on the 12th April
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    So why are you quoting national polling to support your arguments (not that it exactly demonstrates overwhelming Trump victories against anyone)?

    One wonders why Trump even bothered to stand for election himself (maybe he thought the polls in 2014 weren’t a decisive indicator...)
    Hillary never polled that well and he knew he could win the rustbelt as he did
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    Yes but the Commons would vote to participate in the EU Parliament elections over No Deal, whichever option wins the indicative votes in the Commons will also show the EU where an Agreement is likely to pass, assuming the Commons does not vote to revoke Article 50 or for No Deal
    It sounds as if the “indicative votes” will be amended to include options the EU is not prepared to give. Also other than “revoke” and “no deal” they will all require the passing of the Withdrawal Agreement to be implemented anyway. Which is no doubt the point that May will make if one of the “alternatives” is passed. AGAIN!
    All in the PD not the WA
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
    My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.

    His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    Yes but the Commons would vote to participate in the EU Parliament elections over No Deal, whichever option wins the indicative votes in the Commons will also show the EU where an Agreement is likely to pass, assuming the Commons does not vote to revoke Article 50 or for No Deal
    How will the HOC vote to take part in the EU elections. Most of the conservative party, the DUP and many in labour would fiercely oppose such a move
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited March 2019

    Reflecting on the next PM, since Thatcher (evil) we have had a pattern:

    Major (crap)
    Blair (style over substance)
    Brown (crap)
    Cameron (style over substance)
    May (crap

    No wonder Chuka thinks the job should be his. However, who from the Tory ranks is the charismatic empty suit to sustain the pattern?

    It would be nice if they broke with tradition and just chose someone competent. Or is that too much to ask?

    The most clearly competent Tories tend to be much too europhile for the rank and file, such as David Liddington or Ken Clarke. Their sobriety, and fair immunity to paroxysms of nationalism, are part of their competence.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,303
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Will the Democrats tolerate a candidate who is not a culture warrior?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,241
    edited March 2019
    Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
    Remember Obama chose an oldie as his VP.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    Agreed. He’s value. Even at 30/1.

    I’m also backing him as Democrat nominee as I think Trump’s chances in 2020 (assuming he stands again as the incumbent) are undercooked.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    Sean_F said:

    Will the Democrats tolerate a candidate who is not a culture warrior?

    Given Trump's sell is that he is a culture warrior, the Democrats are at least going to need to have someone capable of operating within such a narrative.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,303
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
    My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.

    His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
    Yes, but you also need to contract Trump the incumbent with Trump the unlikely candidate from left field.
    That cuts both ways, as voters views on his have become entrenched for good or bad, since the election, but incumbency is still a factor.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Jonathan said:

    And idle thought.

    Given Trump’s tendency to change personel, what chance a new running mate in 2020? I am sure he would be tempted by a Nelly The Elephant dream ticket: Trump Trump.

    Without wishing to spoil your whole week, I think the song refers to an entire Trump dynasty.

    Trump

    Trump

    Trump.....
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,198
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    The real question is whether we would revoke if we get to the end of the road at the clifftop. I think we would.
    You hope.

    Theresa May will never revoke. And I sincerely doubt any Conservative PM would unilaterally do so, even Lidington.

    The best you could say (from your point of view) is they put it back to a 2nd referendum to resolve the impasse.

    I’m very confident if we did that the EU would (again) extend, EU elections or not, as they think it would end Brexit and stabilise the EU.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate

    The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,303

    Sean_F said:

    Will the Democrats tolerate a candidate who is not a culture warrior?

    Given Trump's sell is that he is a culture warrior, the Democrats are at least going to need to have someone capable of operating within such a narrative.

    Or subverting it.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:
    If Hugo Rifkind thinks the moral of Exodus is the Jews should have continued living under Pharaoh then I think he has missed the point somewhat.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    Sean_F said:

    Will the Democrats tolerate a candidate who is not a culture warrior?

    Given Trump's sell is that he is a culture warrior, the Democrats are at least going to need to have someone capable of operating within such a narrative.

    The risk is they go big on a platform of abolishing ICE, reparations for slavery, and late term abortion, which will enthuse the base, but result in an easy victory for Trump.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The highest percentages of the electorate signing the petition in seats that voted Leave are currently as follows:

    Eltham 14.1%
    Devon Central 14.1%
    Totnes 14.0%
    Somerton & Frome 13.6%
    Somerset NE 13.5%
    Sutton & Cheam 13.1%
    Chippenham 12.9%

    Interesting that those are all in either London or the West Country.

    https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    The real question is whether we would revoke if we get to the end of the road at the clifftop. I think we would.
    You hope.

    Theresa May will never revoke. And I sincerely doubt any Conservative PM would unilaterally do so, even Lidington.

    The best you could say (from your point of view) is they put it back to a 2nd referendum to resolve the impasse.

    I’m very confident if we did that the EU would (again) extend, EU elections or not, as they think it would end Brexit and stabilise the EU.
    Do not dismiss EU elections or not.

    They are absolutely mandatory for a referendum, GE, or any extension.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    The highest percentages of the electorate signing the petition in seats that voted Leave are currently as follows:

    Eltham 14.1%
    Devon Central 14.1%
    Totnes 14.0%
    Somerton & Frome 13.6%
    Somerset NE 13.5%
    Sutton & Cheam 13.1%
    Chippenham 12.9%

    Interesting that those are all in either London or the West Country.

    https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

    There were a large number of banners from the west country that I saw at the march on Saturday.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,303

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
    Remember Obama chose an oldie as his VP.
    Who acquitted himself rather well, as I recall.

    Harris makes far more sense than (say) O'Rourke or Buttigieg, a she has considerably more experience, particularly in Washington.
    And two white guys on the Democratic ticket is perhaps not the best idea for them, ceteris paribus.
  • Options
    For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    AndyJS said:

    The highest percentages of the electorate signing the petition in seats that voted Leave are currently as follows:

    Eltham 14.1%
    Devon Central 14.1%
    Totnes 14.0%
    Somerton & Frome 13.6%
    Somerset NE 13.5%
    Sutton & Cheam 13.1%
    Chippenham 12.9%

    Interesting that those are all in either London or the West Country.

    https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

    They all feel like strong Libdem areas to me - likely a strong motivated if diminished Pro European soft left

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    AndyJS said:

    The highest percentages of the electorate signing the petition in seats that voted Leave are currently as follows:

    Eltham 14.1%
    Devon Central 14.1%
    Totnes 14.0%
    Somerton & Frome 13.6%
    Somerset NE 13.5%
    Sutton & Cheam 13.1%
    Chippenham 12.9%

    Interesting that those are all in either London or the West Country.

    https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

    The West Country did not vote as heavily for Brexit as I'd expected.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,198

    Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate

    The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
    The biggest tragedy for me as a Cons member - but not irrelevant to the state of the nation - is the reemergence of these tossers into the political limelight.

    Time was that the likes of Cash, Redwood, JRM, Bone, etc were simply eccentric, amiable enough figures of fun way out on the fringes of the mainstream Conservative Party. No one had heard of Bridgen or Francois.

    Now they are running the show.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Some light comedy:

    Theresa May spent the weekend haunting Chequers, after an attempted exorcism by Michael Gove and David Liddington failed to end her relentless torment of existing in the netherspace between the corporeal world and the hereafter.

    Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people enjoyed a walk through London to protest against democracy. Jeremy Corbyn, the nation’s foremost manhole cover enthusiast, refused to attend and instead occupied himself by imitating a buffoon from the 1970s.

    On the continent, France was on fire, Sweden has no government, Merkel has no authority, Spain is in the middle of an election, and the Italian Government is strong and stable, suggesting the end times are upon us.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate

    The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
    The biggest tragedy for me as a Cons member - but not irrelevant to the state of the nation - is the reemergence of these tossers into the political limelight.

    Time was that the likes of Cash, Redwood, JRM, Bone, etc were simply eccentric, amiable enough figures of fun way out on the fringes of the mainstream Conservative Party. No one had heard of Bridgen or Francois.

    Now they are running the show.
    They do need facing down
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    AKA, the intellectual candidate...
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    Seats in the north of England that voted Leave, % signing the petition:

    Salford & Eccles: 12.0%
    Calder Valley 11.5%
    Shipley 11.2%
    Lancaster & Fleetwood 10.9%
    Skipton & Ripon: 10.8%
    Hazel Grove 10.7%
    Warrington South 10.5%
    Leeds West 10.3%
    Newcastle North 10.3%
    Sheffield Heeley 10.0%
    Weaver Vale 9.9%
    Colne Valley 9.5%
    Eddisbury 9.5%
    Congleton 9.4%
    Keighley 9.2%

    https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584
  • Options

    Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate

    The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
    Only left to appear on Im a celebrity please.... preferably doing all the trials....
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    AndyJS said:

    Seats in the north of England that voted Leave, % signing the petition:

    Salford & Eccles: 12.0%
    Calder Valley 11.5%
    Shipley 11.2%
    Lancaster & Fleetwood 10.9%
    Skipton & Ripon: 10.8%
    Hazel Grove 10.7%
    Warrington South 10.5%
    Leeds West 10.3%
    Newcastle North 10.3%
    Sheffield Heeley 10.0%
    Weaver Vale 9.9%
    Colne Valley 9.5%
    Eddisbury 9.5%
    Congleton 9.4%
    Keighley 9.2%

    It would be interesting to know what proportion of voters signed.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
    Or Sanders/O'Rourke
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Some light comedy:

    Theresa May spent the weekend haunting Chequers, after an attempted exorcism by Michael Gove and David Liddington failed to end her relentless torment of existing in the netherspace between the corporeal world and the hereafter.

    Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people enjoyed a walk through London to protest against democracy. Jeremy Corbyn, the nation’s foremost manhole cover enthusiast, refused to attend and instead occupied himself by imitating a buffoon from the 1970s.

    On the continent, France was on fire, Sweden has no government, Merkel has no authority, Spain is in the middle of an election, and the Italian Government is strong and stable, suggesting the end times are upon us.

    Like Eric Morecambe, Jeremy Corbyn struck all the right notes this weekend, but not necessarily in the right order.
  • Options
    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    No Deal seems very unlikely now. If May's wooing of the Brexiters fails to get her WA through, she'll pivot quickly the other way in order to survive.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137

    TOPPING said:

    Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate

    The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
    The biggest tragedy for me as a Cons member - but not irrelevant to the state of the nation - is the reemergence of these tossers into the political limelight.

    Time was that the likes of Cash, Redwood, JRM, Bone, etc were simply eccentric, amiable enough figures of fun way out on the fringes of the mainstream Conservative Party. No one had heard of Bridgen or Francois.

    Now they are running the show.
    They do need facing down
    Both parties have same problem. The eccentrics, ultras and whackos, were politely indulged for years, whilst gradually (or speedily in Labour case) the membership became like them in large numbers.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
    My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.

    His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
    He got more in Ohio, Iowa, Michigan and Pennsylvania than Romney though
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Reflecting on the next PM, since Thatcher (evil) we have had a pattern:

    Major (crap)
    Blair (style over substance)
    Brown (crap)
    Cameron (style over substance)
    May (crap

    No wonder Chuka thinks the job should be his. However, who from the Tory ranks is the charismatic empty suit to sustain the pattern?

    It would be nice if they broke with tradition and just chose someone competent. Or is that too much to ask?

    Like Thatcher you mean?
  • Options
    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE

    This is quite important information that has heretofore been rather glossed over.
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    AndyJS said:

    Seats in the north of England that voted Leave, % signing the petition:

    Salford & Eccles: 12.0%
    Calder Valley 11.5%
    Shipley 11.2%
    Lancaster & Fleetwood 10.9%
    Skipton & Ripon: 10.8%
    Hazel Grove 10.7%
    Warrington South 10.5%
    Leeds West 10.3%
    Newcastle North 10.3%
    Sheffield Heeley 10.0%
    Weaver Vale 9.9%
    Colne Valley 9.5%
    Eddisbury 9.5%
    Congleton 9.4%
    Keighley 9.2%

    https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

    Salford might be less without the BBC having moved there

    Quite a few in leafy Cheshire and some which will be influenced by local universities - Shipley for example has trains to Leeds and Bradford
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,903
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
    Or Sanders/O'Rourke
    Two white men. Although, sort of, see Trump and Pence!
    Still a lot of options.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    That this isn't fully understood is another reason why if we get close to it, I still think the plug will be pulled.
    So apparently the “no dealer” answer to this is that we could buy a transition period...

    Ie. in effect Implement the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. Which obviously isn’t a runner, and is therefore just designed to avoid the blame for the effects of crashout no deal (“no deal would have been fine if only the Govt/EU had allowed time to prepare for it...”)
    Fox was on R4 just now and he kept repeating that no deal was very unlikely.
    I think a lot of the politicians are labouring under the belief that the EU will grant rolling extensions to avert no deal. Of course this would be a disaster for the U.K. anyway (investment into the country would disappear, probably more so than under No deal), but without commitment to participate in EU elections they 100% will not. And may not do so anyway.

    Yes but the Commons would vote to participate in the EU Parliament elections over No Deal, whichever option wins the indicative votes in the Commons will also show the EU where an Agreement is likely to pass, assuming the Commons does not vote to revoke Article 50 or for No Deal
    How will the HOC vote to take part in the EU elections. Most of the conservative party, the DUP and many in labour would fiercely oppose such a move
    Wrong, most of the Tory Party voted against extending Article 50 last time and to keep No Deal on the table.

    The Commons as a whole voted by a 200 majority to extend Article 50 and against the Government to take No Deal off the table permanently
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Meeks,

    LOL
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    More likely the Commons votes for May's Deal and a permanent Customs Union this week and we end up with that or May's Deal passing, just, as the ERG panic to avoid that
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    Agreed if it comes to it (and I still think it won't) we need someone who believes in it to take over not someone looking at a damage limitation exercise. That was the mistake after Brexit, May viewed her role as seeking damage limitation rather than making an opportunity .
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
    Or Sanders/O'Rourke
    Two white men. Although, sort of, see Trump and Pence!
    Still a lot of options.
    It is a few more white rustbelt voters the Democrats need to beat Trump in the Electoral College
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
    My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.

    His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
    Why did turnout drop so much in Wisconsin in 2016 compared to 2012?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Some light comedy:

    Theresa May spent the weekend haunting Chequers, after an attempted exorcism by Michael Gove and David Liddington failed to end her relentless torment of existing in the netherspace between the corporeal world and the hereafter.

    Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people enjoyed a walk through London to protest against democracy. Jeremy Corbyn, the nation’s foremost manhole cover enthusiast, refused to attend and instead occupied himself by imitating a buffoon from the 1970s.

    On the continent, France was on fire, Sweden has no government, Merkel has no authority, Spain is in the middle of an election, and the Italian Government is strong and stable, suggesting the end times are upon us.

    Like Eric Morecambe, Jeremy Corbyn struck all the right notes this weekend, but not necessarily in the right order.
    I think he struck all the wrong notes in the wrong order.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.

    The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AndyJS said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.

    Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%

    For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
    No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.

    A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.


    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/24/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-2020-election-matchup-poll-finds/3261265002/

    Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
    Call off the election now, it’s decided!
    It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
    Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
    My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.

    His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
    Why did turnout drop so much in Wisconsin in 2016 compared to 2012?
    I assume many people who were inspired by either Obama or Romney were not inspired by either Trump or Hillary.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,001

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
    When Cameron offered you that, you campaigned against it.
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    How long will it be before we have an article on the ramifications of the Mueller Report? Or will the pre-prepared one be uploaded?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited March 2019
    It likely means Benn Letwin passes this evening, indicative votes are then held on Wednesday and MV3 on Thursday
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    IMHO, I'd expect Ohio, Florida, and Iowa to be quite solid for Trump in 2020. So the Democrats either need to flip the rust belt, or States like North Carolina, Georgia, and Arizona.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,903
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's also old. That at least dilutes the potency of any age-related attack, if not removing it entirely as an effective line.

    Exactly, Trump is already 72 and Biden or Sanders could easily pick a young VP candidate like O'Rourke or Buttigieg
    Well it would be tough for them to pick one who doesn't look young in comparison.

    (FWIW, I still think Biden/Harris a fairly strong possibility.)
    Or Sanders/O'Rourke
    Two white men. Although, sort of, see Trump and Pence!
    Still a lot of options.
    It is a few more white rustbelt voters the Democrats need to beat Trump in the Electoral College
    With turnouts as low as those in the US, does one try to swtch existing voters or enthuse new ones?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,035

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.

    The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
    Indeed.

    The best way to make Brexit sustainable is to leave the EU without damaging the country.

    But for the real ERG nutters leaving without damage means that too much has been given away in negotiations - 'if its not hurting then its not working' is their mentality. They need chaos as catharsis.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570

    For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE

    Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.

    I think you mean "...Europe is a continent off the coast of Britain". :wink:
This discussion has been closed.