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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Euro elections – what we know about turnout local authorit

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    > @NickPalmer said:
    > On May: there's nothing inconsistent in feeling that someone has pursued reprehensible policies incompetently and being sorry for them when they cry in public and are lampooned by our gutter press (yes, I'm looking at you, Daily Telegraph). Assessing policies and feeling sorry for a human are two entirely different things.
    >
    > There is a Waiting for Godot flavour about our politics these days - a decisive moment always seems to be imminent, and then it isn't. The Euro-election results tomorrow will create a stir whatever they are, but attention will switch to the Tory leadership election within a couple of days. Then when someone wins, the atteniton will switch to the (non-) neotiations coming. Then when the October deadline approaches, it'll be extended. Olympic-quality can-kicking.

    Are you accusing Boris of lieing Nick ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/1132183530820263936

    So start a new party and get people voting for it.

    Oh.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729

    our gutter press (yes, I'm looking at you, Daily Telegraph).

    Dr Palmer, on a point of order, please withdraw that remark.

    It is unfair to gutters.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    > @Scott_P said:
    >
    >
    > Knifing BoZo is probably the greatest act of public service Gove will ever perform, but it doesn't make up for the cardinal sin of supporting him in the first place. "We have had enough of experts" will be his epitaph

    I think it was vice versa. Boris Johnson was talked into backing Brexit because Gove’s support reassured him he would have enough political cover.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    > @Foxy said:
    > The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.
    >
    > Especially female ones
    >
    > Yes, and ones that point out that the emperor has no clothes:
    >
    > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131866914148495360

    That quote about not being the answer to the question people are answering is spot on.

    Corbyn has no answer to the Brexit question and just looks annoyed when he is asked it

    Some of Corbyn’s most passionate concerns and interests, don’t resonate.

    The ones that do, important issues like Health and Poverty, he kills through cliche outdated and very holier than thou rhetoric that switch people off outside his core believers.

    And what worst, he can’t see it. His supporters filter out unhelpful facts. Tragic really. He could be so much better.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    > @Jonathan said:
    > The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.

    She's also quite stylish. She does a great line in ear rings. Also a fine self publicist without being tacky. A good contrast to Boris and McVey.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    In 1975, Thatcher became leader under exceptional circumstances. She was not assumed to last long. Yet, she stayed for 15 years.

    Are we all assuming that the next Tory leader could be hear for a couple of years, when they could be here far longer. Even if they don’t quite make it to 2034, the next decade could be owned by Boris/Raab/Hunt etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    > @ydoethur said:
    > our gutter press (yes, I'm looking at you, Daily Telegraph).
    >
    > Dr Palmer, on a point of order, please withdraw that remark.
    >
    > It is unfair to gutters.

    Which are both ubiquitous, and serve a useful function.
    Not just unfair, but wildly inaccurate.
  • eristdoof said:

    > @nico67 said:

    >

    > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.

    >

    The EU doesn't care about "heroes or villans" for Brexit. They only want the best for 27 member countries and have dug their heals because the attempted negotiations from the British side go too far.



    Why don't people get this?

    Wanting what's best for EU states has seen them blink and extend on both occasions that No Deal has become a possibility.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    I see from his interview on R4 that Hancock aims to be the puppy dogs and rainbows candidate.

    Needs work.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    Jonathan said:

    In 1975, Thatcher became leader under exceptional circumstances. She was not assumed to last long. Yet, she stayed for 15 years.



    Are we all assuming that the next Tory leader could be hear for a couple of years, when they could be here far longer. Even if they don’t quite make it to 2034, the next decade could be owned by Boris/Raab/Hunt etc.

    Taking the Leadership in opposition, then winning an election or two is how to last. Modern politics is very intolerant of election losers. Hard to see any of the candidates for Tory leadership lasting.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited May 2019
    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.

    >

    > Still suspended I'm pretty sure. Burgon is quite a long shot himself, I guess on the basis of having a job in shadow cabinet and being quite young (AFAIK) he could have decent shot at some point in the future but he doesn't seem a realistic shot for the next leader.

    >

    > More likely than Chris Williamson admittedly...



    Who on your opinion are likely candidates? I am curious.



    We’re technically in the same party.

    Not sure I hear much different to you...

    I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.

    That is a general circumstances list though and specifically about those who could appeal and win with the current membership. Keir is a good possibility in the very specific circumstances of Brexit and a second referendum being a live issue but outside of that less so.

    A lot depends on the circumstances. The difference between Corbyn standing down from ill health tomorrow, or losing big in an election or handing over to someone in x years make a big difference.

    Also not sure on the more right of the party candidates. Jess is good at self promotion, Keir is somewhat flavour of the Month/Year and I guess would be backed by some on the right but some of that is circumstance related as mentioned before. Who do you think the right would be putting up as candidates?

    The Yvette Cooper mention/support seems to have fallen back somewhat.
  • In which universe does anyone consider Hancock a potential Prime Minister? His mother really should have a word.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    > @ThomasNashe said:
    > Really impressive interview from Rory. It's a sad fact that the one manifestly superior candidate clearly has no chance.

    You mean the only one that is not utterly batshit?

    I agree, by the way.

    Doesn't mean I like him, mind.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,122
    > @ydoethur said:
    > There's always three REALLY shit ones....
    >
    > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132173819169398784
    >
    >
    >
    > Don't worry, he'll be hounded out very quickly.

    Well the country is going to the dogs.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Commissioner, stranger things have happened.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Still suspended I'm pretty sure. Burgon is quite a long shot himself, I guess on the basis of having a job in shadow cabinet and being quite young (AFAIK) he could have decent shot at some point in the future but he doesn't seem a realistic shot for the next leader.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > More likely than Chris Williamson admittedly...
    >
    >
    >
    > Who on your opinion are likely candidates? I am curious.
    >
    >
    >
    > We’re technically in the same party.
    >
    > Not sure I hear much different to you...
    >
    > I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
    >
    > That is a general circumstances list though and specifically about those who could appeal and win with the current membership. Keir is a good possibility in the very specific circumstances of Brexit and a second referendum being a live issue but outside of that less so.
    >
    > A lot depends on the circumstances. The difference between Corbyn standing down from ill health tomorrow, or losing big in an election or handing over to someone in x years make a big difference.
    >
    > Also not sure on the more right of the party candidates. Jess is good at self promotion, Keir is somewhat flavour of the Month/Year and I guess would be backed by some on the right but some of that is circumstance related as mentioned before. Who do you think the right would be putting up as candidates?
    >
    > The Yvette Cooper mention/support seems to have fallen back somewhat.

    Labour needs a leader anchored on the left, but without Jezza baggage and capable of engaging and exciting the 30-40% of Labour members and 60%+ of Labour voters that Corbyn has put off. Someone who can do the hard work of bringing Labour back to electability. Ideally someone with an open mind and a bit of spirit. It should also be a woman.

    Answers on a postcard.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    > @Mango said:
    > > @ThomasNashe said:
    > > Really impressive interview from Rory. It's a sad fact that the one manifestly superior candidate clearly has no chance.
    >
    > You mean the only one that is not utterly batshit?
    >
    > I agree, by the way.
    >
    > Doesn't mean I like him, mind.

    Rory can’t lead this lot. He’s in the wrong party for starters, far too thoughtful for this lot. Leaving that aside, I just can’t see him stamping his authority over the big beasts. This is all about getting a decent cabinet job for Rory.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Jonathan said:


    Labour needs a leader anchored on the left, but without Jezza baggage and capable of engaging and exciting the 30-40% of Labour members and 60%+ of Labour voters that Corbyn has put off. Someone who can do the hard work of bringing Labour back to electability. Ideally someone with an open mind and a bit of spirit. It should also be a woman.



    Answers on a postcard.

    I give you names and specifics and you give me vague goals and ambitions... this is why CUK is polling so low!

    ;)

    TBH you are talking about a Labour leader to win the next election (or at least it sound like it) as much as you may want it I don't think there will be a contest before then. I imagine the Labour vote from the last election could win the next election, depending what happens with Brexit, the Brexit Party and the Tory leadership then you might not need to win more votes than last time.

    Exciting the left, won't be easy (or maybe that doable) but not pissing them off, keeping them engaged should be easy enough. As long as there isn't a feeling of well that was a bad dream back to business as usual.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729
    felix said:

    > @ydoethur said:

    > There's always three REALLY shit ones....

    >

    >



    >

    >

    >

    > Don't worry, he'll be hounded out very quickly.



    Well the country is going to the dogs.
    Shall we pack this in?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1132188391452422144

    I don't think this is a very good line. Does Hancock not think he could beat Corbyn in a General Election ?

    Weak.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    > @thecommissioner said:
    > > @nico67 said:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
    >
    > >
    >
    > The EU doesn't care about "heroes or villans" for Brexit. They only want the best for 27 member countries and have dug their heals because the attempted negotiations from the British side go too far.
    >
    >
    >
    > Why don't people get this?
    >
    > Wanting what's best for EU states has seen them blink and extend on both occasions that No Deal has become a possibility.

    Never mind blinking, you are blinkered. The EU is extending because they think there's still a decent chance of Brexit being abandoned.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    No wonder Remainers want a referendum between Remain and a deal!

    https://twitter.com/whatukthinks/status/1132188761520054272?s=21
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    > @IanB2 said:
    > > @thecommissioner said:
    > > > @nico67 said:
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > The EU doesn't care about "heroes or villans" for Brexit. They only want the best for 27 member countries and have dug their heals because the attempted negotiations from the British side go too far.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Why don't people get this?
    > >
    > > Wanting what's best for EU states has seen them blink and extend on both occasions that No Deal has become a possibility.
    >
    > Never mind blinking, you are blinkered. The EU is extending because they think there's still a decent chance of Brexit being abandoned.

    My other issue with this argument is that extending A50 didn't really cost the EU anything. But agreeing to split the single market or put a time limit on the backstop would be a major concession, so I'm not sure the fact they did the extension suggests they'll offer the latter.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Glenn, that is a dumb line, as you say.

    If the Conservative Party exists to tow a Farage-approved line, it should disband and its members join the Brexit Corporation (or whatever the company's official name is).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    > @DecrepitJohnL said:
    > > @Scott_P said:
    > > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132168923502252033
    >
    > There's no pleasing some Tories.
    >
    > First they complain Theresa May was inflexible. Now they complain Boris U-turns overnight.
    >
    > Boris is like Trump in that regard: self-contradiction; inconsistency; no underpinning political philosophy.

    He's not at all like Trump.

    Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.

    Boris is a rat who'd sell his own mother if he thought it'd advance his own career. Even his kids don't like him.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    > @Nigelb said:
    > > @StuartDickson said:
    > > > @Nigelb said:
    > > > Just listened again to the May valedictory.
    > > > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
    > >
    > > I don’t think she did herself, her party or her nation any favours with that performance.
    > >
    > > When did the stiff-upper Wodehousian English lip get replaced by moanin, whinin an greetin? Pull together England.
    > >
    > > Mind you, she is only reflecting modern society: the entire planet seems to be imitating the very worst aspects of American culture.
    > >
    >
    > How very Lady Bracknell of you.
    >

    - ”The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately, in England at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square.”

    Tory education policy in a nutshell.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    > @Scott_P said:
    > Still on staircases, Downing Street’s Norma Desmond is finally to descend hers on 7 June. Gallingly, she must still put up with noises off from her former chief of staff. Nick Timothy really is the Paul Burrell of politics, dining out shamelessly on his various betrayals of his former boss. Nick used this week’s Telegraph column to state that “warning signs” were there from the start with May’s personality, that the 2017 election was “a disaster” and the Tory campaign “poor”. Dramatists, is there such a thing as reverse character development, where the character actually knows less at the end than he did at the beginning? Where his understanding of the situation is akin to a highly unstable radioactive isotope with an incredibly short half-life? Because really: THIS GUY.
    >
    > Then again: ALL OF US. It feels like we’re back where we were in July 2016, only with many, many more things broken. Haven’t we already found out what happened when Andrea Leadsom launches a leadership bid? Isn’t she still Brexit’s second-stupidest Andrea (Jenkyns will always edge it)? Don’t we know what Boris Johnson’s like? Why are we doing it again? It’s like there’s some tear in the worst-possible ideas continuum.
    >
    > https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/24/theresa-may-tory-downing-street-leadership-contest

    That really does test my patience. The sheer nerve.

    Lord Salisbury Part II wrote the whole bloody 2017 manifesto. No responsibility taken at all.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.

    >

    > Still suspended I'm pretty sure. Burgon is quite a long shot himself, I guess on the basis of having a job in shadow cabinet and being quite young (AFAIK) he could have decent shot at some point in the future but he doesn't seem a realistic shot for the next leader.

    >

    > More likely than Chris Williamson admittedly...



    Who on your opinion are likely candidates? I am curious.



    We’re technically in the same party.

    Not sure I hear much different to you...

    I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.

    That is a general circumstances list though and specifically about those who could appeal and win with the current membership. Keir is a good possibility in the very specific circumstances of Brexit and a second referendum being a live issue but outside of that less so.

    A lot depends on the circumstances. The difference between Corbyn standing down from ill health tomorrow, or losing big in an election or handing over to someone in x years make a big difference.

    Also not sure on the more right of the party candidates. Jess is good at self promotion, Keir is somewhat flavour of the Month/Year and I guess would be backed by some on the right but some of that is circumstance related as mentioned before. Who do you think the right would be putting up as candidates?

    The Yvette Cooper mention/support seems to have fallen back somewhat.
    Well your first selections are very unimpressive and leave the electorate cold. Starmer looks ok no mention of your best asset Benn though with Jess on joint ticket could actually win.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    > @isam said:
    > No wonder Remainers want a referendum between Remain and a deal!
    >
    > https://twitter.com/whatukthinks/status/1132188761520054272

    In such a vote I'd expect Remain to win something like 55/45 but it wouldn't be certain.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    > @Casino_Royale said:

    > He's not at all like Trump.
    >
    > Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.
    >
    > Boris is a rat who'd sell his own mother if he thought it'd advance his own career. Even his kids don't like him.

    Quite - I wouldn't vote for him, but Trump is even delivering on the wall despite the pursestrings being Democrat controlled.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    > @Casino_Royale said:
    > > @DecrepitJohnL said:
    > > > @Scott_P said:
    > > > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132168923502252033
    > >
    > > There's no pleasing some Tories.
    > >
    > > First they complain Theresa May was inflexible. Now they complain Boris U-turns overnight.
    > >
    > > Boris is like Trump in that regard: self-contradiction; inconsistency; no underpinning political philosophy.
    >
    > He's not at all like Trump.
    >
    > Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.
    >
    > Boris is a rat who'd sell his own mother if he thought it'd advance his own career. Even his kids don't like him.

    Where is that wall with Mexico? Still not built yet. However I don't think any Tory leader could extend beyond October again and survive especially with the Brexit Party breathing down their necks, Deal or No Deal and Boris has rightly recognised that
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > Labour needs a leader anchored on the left, but without Jezza baggage and capable of engaging and exciting the 30-40% of Labour members and 60%+ of Labour voters that Corbyn has put off. Someone who can do the hard work of bringing Labour back to electability. Ideally someone with an open mind and a bit of spirit. It should also be a woman.
    >
    >
    >
    > Answers on a postcard.
    >
    > I give you names and specifics and you give me vague goals and ambitions... this is why CUK is polling so low!
    >
    > ;)
    >
    > TBH you are talking about a Labour leader to win the next election (or at least it sound like it) as much as you may want it I don't think there will be a contest before then. I imagine the Labour vote from the last election could win the next election, depending what happens with Brexit, the Brexit Party and the Tory leadership then you might not need to win more votes than last time.
    >
    > Exciting the left, won't be easy (or maybe that doable) but not pissing them off, keeping them engaged should be easy enough. As long as there isn't a feeling of well that was a bad dream back to business as usual.

    The goal is winning the next election. Something has to change for that to happen. The brighter members of the leadership like McDonald see that. A change of leader is one way to do it. A broader approach is another.

    From your list Rayner is most interesting. Thornberry is the safe choice. Pidcock would kill the party in weeks. Lewis is a mixed bag.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    > @DecrepitJohnL said:

    > > @Scott_P said:

    > >



    >

    > There's no pleasing some Tories.

    >

    > First they complain Theresa May was inflexible. Now they complain Boris U-turns overnight.

    >

    > Boris is like Trump in that regard: self-contradiction; inconsistency; no underpinning political philosophy.



    He's not at all like Trump.



    Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.



    Boris is a rat who'd sell his own mother if he thought it'd advance his own career. Even his kids don't like him.

    As Hillary Clinton can testify from her cell...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Royale, shade unfair on rats.

    As an aside, the rat in the Chinese zodiac won the race.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    All the runners and riders are being rolled out over the week-end on radio 5. So far we've had Rory the Tory. No chance! None whatsoever. He was hopeless....to be continued......
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    What are the odds on Heidi Allen resigning on Monday if/when Change UK fail to win any seats in the Euros?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    > @Casino_Royale said:



    > He's not at all like Trump.

    >

    > Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.

    >

    > Boris is a rat who'd sell his own mother if he thought it'd advance his own career. Even his kids don't like him.



    Quite - I wouldn't vote for him, but Trump is even delivering on the wall despite the pursestrings being Democrat controlled.

    A judge has just blocked Trump's money diversion yesterday.

    Mexico's contribution still zero dollars.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    > @Jonathan said:

    > Labour needs a leader anchored on the left, but without Jezza baggage and capable of engaging and exciting the 30-40% of Labour members and 60%+ of Labour voters that Corbyn has put off. Someone who can do the hard work of bringing Labour back to electability. Ideally someone with an open mind and a bit of spirit. It should also be a woman.
    >
    > Answers on a postcard.

    Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people just as BXP has provided for UKIP. Unless the polls are wrong, and unless Chukka has some fabulous cunning plan up his sleeve, then they couldn't have fucked this up harder had they tried.

    So back to plan A - rescue the party from the crazies. What the Fall and Rise of Reggie "Bollocks to Brexit" Cable has shown is that an abrupt about turn and some chutzpah can resurrect even the deadest of parties. Here and now Labour is dead in Scotland and dying in the north and midlands. The Corbyn cancer continues to hungrily devour what's left, but it can be turned around.

    Personally I would bring back Ed Milliband. Ignore the crap about him knowing his brother in the back - David was crap and utterly lacked the emotional intelligence of Ed. People can be thrown into the spotlight, be judged harshly, and then be rehabilitated by the passing of time and calmness of behaviour out of the spotlight. We need an established leader with a heart and a mission.

    Bring back Ed. And fuck Corbyn and all the causes of Corbyn
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    > @Jonathan said:
    > > @Mango said:
    > > > @ThomasNashe said:
    > > > Really impressive interview from Rory. It's a sad fact that the one manifestly superior candidate clearly has no chance.
    > >
    > > You mean the only one that is not utterly batshit?
    > >
    > > I agree, by the way.
    > >
    > > Doesn't mean I like him, mind.
    >
    > Rory can’t lead this lot. He’s in the wrong party for starters, far too thoughtful for this lot. Leaving that aside, I just can’t see him stamping his authority over the big beasts. This is all about getting a decent cabinet job for Rory.

    He has just said he will not serve with Boris. So much for unity

    To be fair he seems far too light weight and to rule himself out of a Boris cabinet will not help to raise his future profile
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    > @isam said:
    > No wonder Remainers want a referendum between Remain and a deal!
    >
    > https://twitter.com/whatukthinks/status/1132188761520054272

    So a plurality of Tory voters want No Deal and a majority of both Tory and All voters want Brexit with a Deal or without a Deal.

    Where Deal voters go is thus key if the Commons has not passed the Withdrawal Agreement by October as is or with any amendments agreed with the EU
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729
    edited May 2019


    Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.

    As Hillary Clinton can testify from her cell...
    The issues with Trump recently have been more about buying than celling, wouldn't you say?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    ah009 said:

    Something I expect to see in the coming weeks: a close Johnson ally will hint darkly that if he is kept off the members' ballot, he will defect to the Brexit Party.

    Not that I think for a minute he'd follow through. But I believe it'll be a tactic used to scare anti-Johnson MPs into not keeping him off the ballot.

    It'll be done with plausible deniability, but it'll be from Johnson's camp.

    I could see that. He is popular with the members but he is so entitled, certain that he must be allowed through and no matter the rules.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Matt Hancock , another vomit inducing hypocrite who now is “ a true believer “.

    Rory Stewart at least has some principles and not willing to sell his soul to the Tory Membership No Deal Death Cult .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    > @Casino_Royale said:



    > He's not at all like Trump.

    >

    > Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.

    >

    > Boris is a rat who'd sell his own mother if he thought it'd advance his own career. Even his kids don't like him.



    Quite - I wouldn't vote for him, but Trump is even delivering on the wall despite the pursestrings being Democrat controlled.

    A judge has just blocked Trump's money diversion yesterday.

    Mexico's contribution still zero dollars.
    As predicted by one James Blundell :wink:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/02/16/why-chief-justice-roberts-could-hold-the-key-to-trumps-wall/

    "Legal moves against will start in lower courts, with likely a sympathetic judge placing an injunction or some equivalent block on the funds needed for construction to proceed."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    I've just seen her speech for the first time. She filled up, turned and marched at speed into Downing Street where I expect she cried. When you feel emotional it's hard not to crack - I did a couple of weeks back during my best man speech for an old friend.



    I've heard lots of negative comments today about her emotion, and seen the photos taken. She may be an utterly shit politician. But she remains a living feeling human who has continued on with her sense of duty long after most people would have quit.



    She deserves our respect.

    Rubbish , maybe if she had an ounce of emotion during her tenure rather than about herself being chucked out there may have been a case. She had no emotion for all the people she ruined during her stay and only her love of herself in the job kept her there so long , any normal human would have known they had been found out and packed it in long ago.
    No sympathy and certainly no respect.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    edited May 2019
    > @isam said:
    > No wonder Remainers want a referendum between Remain and a deal!

    In a Remain vs Deal referendum I think Deal would gain over time, because Brexit people would gradually swing behind it when they heard their side arguing for it against Remain.

    From point of view of Remain winning a referendum I think I'd slightly prefer Deal as an opponent over No Deal, but it's not a no-brainer. But what I'd really want is for the thing Remain is up against to be clearly *one* of those two options rather than up against a generic "Leave", whether that option selection was done by multiple rounds, AV or MPs just leaving one of the options off the ballot paper.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    nico67 said:

    Matt Hancock , another vomit inducing hypocrite who now is “ a true believer “.



    Rory Stewart at least has some principles and not willing to sell his soul to the Tory Membership No Deal Death Cult .

    The two most principled people in the entire race are Rory Stewart and Steve Baker.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1132174600840929280
    >
    >
    >
    > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1132174579525402624

    Yes Liam Fox was anti No Deal at a dinner I attended with him last week because as a Scot he felt it risked Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the EU
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    > @isam said:

    > No wonder Remainers want a referendum between Remain and a deal!



    In a Remain vs Deal referendum I think Deal would gain over time, because Brexit people would gradually swing behind it when they heard their side arguing for it against Remain.



    From point of view of Remain winning a referendum I think I'd slightly prefer Deal as an opponent over No Deal, but it's not a no-brainer. But what I'd really want is for the thing Remain is up against to be clearly *one* of those two options rather than up against a generic "Leave", whether that option selection was done by multiple rounds, AV or MPs just leaving one of the options off the ballot paper.

    I’m sure you would!!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    > @Jonathan said:

    > > @HYUFD said:

    > > > @Jonathan said:

    > > > > @HYUFD said:

    > > > > > @rottenborough said:

    > > > > >



    > > > > >

    > > > > >

    > > > > >

    > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his.

    > > > > >

    > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss.

    > > > >

    > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century

    > > >

    > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that.

    > >

    > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave

    >

    > Total crap.



    Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era.
    I never expected to see worse than Brown, it is hard to take in.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840


    Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people

    I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people
    >
    > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.

    The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Foxy said:

    > @Casino_Royale said:

    > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:

    > > May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.

    >

    > She's borderline autistic.

    >

    > I don't hold public weeping, or not public weeping, against her.



    I don't think she is. She is just socially awkward and inflexible of mind. We do not need to medicalise her personality.

    Agreed. Whether she is or not armchair diagnosis wont indicate that.

    Still bitter and twisted here though. And no that doesnt mean that only nice things are permitted or no criticism is possible. But
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    What a bellend, is it any wonder these churches are circling the drain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1132075011139952641

    No need, Steve Baker suggested he would stand in a No Deal anti Withdrawal Agreement ticket yesterday and Mark Francois said he would support him if he did on Newsnight
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729


    Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people

    I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.
    That is actually the funniest thing I have read since Amanda Spielmann talked about her outstanding record at OFQUAL.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
    > > @Jonathan said:
    > > > @Mango said:
    > > > > @ThomasNashe said:
    > > > > Really impressive interview from Rory. It's a sad fact that the one manifestly superior candidate clearly has no chance.
    > > >
    > > > You mean the only one that is not utterly batshit?
    > > >
    > > > I agree, by the way.
    > > >
    > > > Doesn't mean I like him, mind.
    > >
    > > Rory can’t lead this lot. He’s in the wrong party for starters, far too thoughtful for this lot. Leaving that aside, I just can’t see him stamping his authority over the big beasts. This is all about getting a decent cabinet job for Rory.
    >
    > He has just said he will not serve with Boris. So much for unity
    >
    > To be fair he seems far too light weight and to rule himself out of a Boris cabinet will not help to raise his future profile

    As I've said passim, loyalty will be the biggest issue facing any ERGer or prominent leaver if they become party leader / PM. They have shown massive disloyalty to May (and in some cases Cameron, Major, Thatcher before); they have no right to expect loyalty when they get the job.

    As for Rory: good on him, and I hope more Conservatives feel the same way. I will never vote Conservative with Boris at the helm, or for anyone who has the ERGers whispering orders into their ears.

    It may also work the other way for Rory: if a Boris premiership is the disaster many expect it to be (me included), then he's setting himself up as the I-told-you-so sane candidate in a future campaign. And he's young enough to be around in ten or twenty years - as long as he doesn't get bored.
  • noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    Question for Tory party members (or anyone else who may know). If I join the party now will I get a vote for the leadership election?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    > @isam said:
    >
    > I’m sure you would!!

    Yes, having one real thing up against another real thing.

    Or perhaps generic leave can go up against Remain+, which involves transfers of €100 billion to the UK budget every year, and free holidays in the Med for all UK citizens
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    Mr. Dickson, things do change. Britain went from loving Nelson's emotional appeal to the Iron Duke's ultimate stiff upper lip in just a couple of decades.

    [As a rule, I'm not especially emotive and prefer stoic politicians. Not a May fan, but given the circumstances I'm not going to knock her for being emotional].

    Mr. 67, has Gove said if he's standing?

    That egotistical lying toerag of a bellend will try it for sure
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Happy Towel Day all you hoopy froods.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880



    I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.

    The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @Casino_Royale said:
    >
    > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
    >
    > > > May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > She's borderline autistic.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I don't hold public weeping, or not public weeping, against her.
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't think she is. She is just socially awkward and inflexible of mind. We do not need to medicalise her personality.
    >
    > Agreed. Whether she is or not armchair diagnosis wont indicate that.
    >
    > Still bitter and twisted here though. And no that doesnt mean that only nice things are permitted or no criticism is possible. But

    The heart tells me to feel sorry for her, but I'm afraid the head tells me the cynics have a point.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Jonathan said:

    The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.

    I suppose this is also why people criticise people like Farage and Boris?
    I really dislike the trend of assuming if a side criticises a particular person it is because they fear that person. Its the same as judging something solely on whether it upsets the 'right' people.

    A person or idea which makes corbynites/ERG furious and leads to them being criticised can be because they can see that person is threat, but sometimes it might just be that they disagree with them, not that they fear them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    > @malcolmg said:
    > The state of replies to this......
    >
    > https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1131878325159366656
    >
    >
    >
    > What a bellend, is it any wonder these churches are circling the drain.

    Even Sturgeon thanked May for her service, clearly something your partisanship could never consider
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people
    >
    > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.

    One of us needs to go mate. I look forward to the coming battle.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Tokyo, I strongly suspect Remain would win.

    Their voters would be very motivated whereas the Deal would depress (in both turnout and emotional terms) Leave voters who feel their options are ignoring the first result and implementing a deal that some will consider leaving in name only, or to be actually worse than remaining.

    Of course, last time I predicted and expected, for a long time, Remain to win at a canter (60/40), so...
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people

    >

    > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.



    The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?

    They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,876
    > @RochdalePioneers said:
    > > @Jonathan said:
    >
    > > Labour needs a leader anchored on the left, but without Jezza baggage and capable of engaging and exciting the 30-40% of Labour members and 60%+ of Labour voters that Corbyn has put off. Someone who can do the hard work of bringing Labour back to electability. Ideally someone with an open mind and a bit of spirit. It should also be a woman.
    > >
    > > Answers on a postcard.
    >
    > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people just as BXP has provided for UKIP. Unless the polls are wrong, and unless Chukka has some fabulous cunning plan up his sleeve, then they couldn't have fucked this up harder had they tried.
    >
    > So back to plan A - rescue the party from the crazies. What the Fall and Rise of Reggie "Bollocks to Brexit" Cable has shown is that an abrupt about turn and some chutzpah can resurrect even the deadest of parties. Here and now Labour is dead in Scotland and dying in the north and midlands. The Corbyn cancer continues to hungrily devour what's left, but it can be turned around.
    >
    > Personally I would bring back Ed Milliband. Ignore the crap about him knowing his brother in the back - David was crap and utterly lacked the emotional intelligence of Ed. People can be thrown into the spotlight, be judged harshly, and then be rehabilitated by the passing of time and calmness of behaviour out of the spotlight. We need an established leader with a heart and a mission.
    >
    > Bring back Ed. And fuck Corbyn and all the causes of Corbyn
    >
    >

    Labour is now shedding support in Wales since appointing a leader who bends the knee to Corbyn.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    Dura_Ace said:

    May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.

    Exactly. Fuck her, fuck Speccy Phil and fuck the Jag they rode in on.
    +1, eloquently said.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    On May: there's nothing inconsistent in feeling that someone has pursued reprehensible policies incompetently and being sorry for them when they cry in public and are lampooned by our gutter press (yes, I'm looking at you, Daily Telegraph). Assessing policies and feeling sorry for a human are two entirely different things.


    .

    Indeed. I dont know why that seems a struggle.

    And if people feel she never did that, well, be better than her .
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    > @noisywinter said:
    > Question for Tory party members (or anyone else who may know). If I join the party now will I get a vote for the leadership election?

    Asking for a tovarish...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. G, "That egotistical lying toerag of a bellend will try it for sure" - get off the fence, man! :p

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880


    Say what you like about Trump but he's done exactly what he promised. All of it.

    He didn't defund sanctuary cities or establish his fucking mad commission on Islam.

    His wall is looking a bit sketchy as well. Mexico forgot their PayPal password and can't pay for it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    You have to laugh at almost the entire cabinet past and recent announcing that only they uniquely can rescue both the Tory party and Brexit. The country? At least 5th on their list of priorities.

    With all of them announcing that it has to be them and not any of their immediate colleagues is it any wonder that the party of government has ended up stuck in office unable to govern? And how do the metrics chance once one of them wins? The same cretinous egos will be there, the same parliamentary maths will be there. Nothing has changed!
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Boris & Brexit:
    Two "wrongs" make a "worse".
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    > @Pulpstar said:
    > Matt Hancock , another vomit inducing hypocrite who now is “ a true believer “.
    >
    >
    >
    > Rory Stewart at least has some principles and not willing to sell his soul to the Tory Membership No Deal Death Cult .
    >
    > The two most principled people in the entire race are Rory Stewart and Steve Baker.

    True , I despise Baker but at least he’s not suddenly changing position . If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s Remainers like Hunt and Javid who have suddenly found their Brexit God !
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited May 2019
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.
    >
    >
    >
    > The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?
    >
    > They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.

    They may well get more votes than Labour. If they can’t win then as things stand neither can we. Corbyn has lost the mojo he had on 2017. He forgot the first rule of opposition, oppose!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.

    Especially female ones
    Yes, and ones that point out that the emperor has no clothes:

    https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131866914148495360?s=19
    I am curious what the reaction will be if labour actually do fine in this election. Its like 2017 - some lab mps really dislike Corbyn and his politics, but for others they worries he would lead them to a massive defeat, and melted away when he did not.

    Jess is not one of those, but if she looks to have panicked about how bad things are unnecessarily it must surely impact how she proceeds.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @Scott_P said:
    > > https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1132075011139952641
    >
    > No need, Steve Baker suggested he would stand in a No Deal anti Withdrawal Agreement ticket yesterday and Mark Francois said he would support him if he did on Newsnight

    As ever, I think the more the lunatic fringe gains the ascendancy within the Tory party, the less likely a hard Brexit - or probably any Brexit - becomes.

    It needs only a small split in the party for an extreme leader to go from a difficult minority position to completely losing control of the Commons. And as for the bravado about getting an electoral mandate for No Deal, we'll see tomorrow what condition the Tories are in to fight a snap general election.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    > @kle4 said:
    > The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.
    >
    > Especially female ones
    >
    > Yes, and ones that point out that the emperor has no clothes:
    >
    > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131866914148495360
    >
    >
    >
    > I am curious what the reaction will be if labour actually do fine in this election. Its like 2017 - some lab mps really dislike Corbyn and his politics, but for others they worries he would lead them to a massive defeat, and melted away when he did not.
    >
    > Jess is not one of those, but if she looks to have panicked about how bad things are unnecessarily it must surely impact how she proceeds.

    Labour are not going to do fine. Fine is being ready to take office. Fine is winning it with a safety margin. Labour are not fine.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people

    >

    > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.



    The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?

    They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.
    Labour are going to be humiliated tommorow. I stand by my prediction that they will be fourth. Yet we will still be told Jezza is an election winner.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Jonathan said:

    In 1975, Thatcher became leader under exceptional circumstances. She was not assumed to last long. Yet, she stayed for 15 years.



    Are we all assuming that the next Tory leader could be hear for a couple of years, when they could be here far longer. Even if they don’t quite make it to 2034, the next decade could be owned by Boris/Raab/Hunt etc.

    The next Tory leader will lose the next GE and we seem allergic to allowing defeated leaders to carry on now unless they they were expected to be walloped and only just lost
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @malcolmg said:
    > > The state of replies to this......
    > >
    > > https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1131878325159366656
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > What a bellend, is it any wonder these churches are circling the drain.
    >
    > Even Sturgeon thanked May for her service, clearly something your partisanship could never consider

    As I posted last night she deserves respect in her departure - she is the Prime Minister. She's been utterly utterly shit at it in almost every way, but whatever happened to the idea of being gracious in defeat and more gracious having defeated someone?

    Show a little class people. You want her gone. She's going. What more do you want? Do you want to watch a woman reduced to a screaming tearful puddle? For your own self-satified gratification?

    It's no wonder this country is fucked is it...?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.

    Especially female ones
    Yes, and ones that point out that the emperor has no clothes:

    https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131866914148495360?s=19
    I am curious what the reaction will be if labour actually do fine in this election. Its like 2017 - some lab mps really dislike Corbyn and his politics, but for others they worries he would lead them to a massive defeat, and melted away when he did not.

    Jess is not one of those, but if she looks to have panicked about how bad things are unnecessarily it must surely impact how she proceeds.
    On the other hand, if she is correct...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    > @SouthamObserver said:
    > > @RochdalePioneers said:
    > > > @Jonathan said:
    > >
    > > > Labour needs a leader anchored on the left, but without Jezza baggage and capable of engaging and exciting the 30-40% of Labour members and 60%+ of Labour voters that Corbyn has put off. Someone who can do the hard work of bringing Labour back to electability. Ideally someone with an open mind and a bit of spirit. It should also be a woman.
    > > >
    > > > Answers on a postcard.
    > >
    > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people just as BXP has provided for UKIP. Unless the polls are wrong, and unless Chukka has some fabulous cunning plan up his sleeve, then they couldn't have fucked this up harder had they tried.
    > >
    > > So back to plan A - rescue the party from the crazies. What the Fall and Rise of Reggie "Bollocks to Brexit" Cable has shown is that an abrupt about turn and some chutzpah can resurrect even the deadest of parties. Here and now Labour is dead in Scotland and dying in the north and midlands. The Corbyn cancer continues to hungrily devour what's left, but it can be turned around.
    > >
    > > Personally I would bring back Ed Milliband. Ignore the crap about him knowing his brother in the back - David was crap and utterly lacked the emotional intelligence of Ed. People can be thrown into the spotlight, be judged harshly, and then be rehabilitated by the passing of time and calmness of behaviour out of the spotlight. We need an established leader with a heart and a mission.
    > >
    > > Bring back Ed. And fuck Corbyn and all the causes of Corbyn
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Labour is now shedding support in Wales since appointing a leader who bends the knee to Corbyn.

    Corbyn is tbe cancer devouring the Labour Party. Once the patient dies, the cancer cells will be there telling each other what a good job they have done having vanquished the class traitors. That the party will have died and the people they claim to be defending will have gone isn't the issue for them
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Dura_Ace said:



    I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.

    The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
    I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)

    If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211

    Question for Tory party members (or anyone else who may know). If I join the party now will I get a vote for the leadership election?

    No. You have had to be a member for at least 3 months is my understanding.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    > @stjohn said:
    > > @Scott_P said:
    > > https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1132188391452422144
    >
    > Hancock's Half Hour.

    Hancock's half-cocked.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    > @HYUFD said:

    > > @malcolmg said:

    > > The state of replies to this......

    > >

    > >



    > >

    > >

    > >

    > > What a bellend, is it any wonder these churches are circling the drain.

    >

    > Even Sturgeon thanked May for her service, clearly something your partisanship could never consider



    As I posted last night she deserves respect in her departure - she is the Prime Minister. She's been utterly utterly shit at it in almost every way, but whatever happened to the idea of being gracious in defeat and more gracious having defeated someone?



    Show a little class people. You want her gone. She's going. What more do you want? Do you want to watch a woman reduced to a screaming tearful puddle? For your own self-satified gratification?



    It's no wonder this country is fucked is it...?
    I do want her gone, and I do not want her crying.

    What would have made me respect her a little is if she had aknowledged that much of the mess we are in is her own fault.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    HYUFD said:

    > @Scott_P said:

    >



    >

    >

    >

    >



    Yes Liam Fox was anti No Deal at a dinner I attended with him last week because as a Scot he felt it risked Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the EU
    LOL, the balloon would struggle to tie his shoelaces. As if he cares a jot about Scotland, he wants to remain with his snout deep in the trough. A Toom Tabard as far as Scotland is concerned.
  • ah009ah009 Posts: 436
    > @Toms said:
    > Boris & Brexit:
    > Two "wrongs" make a "worse".

    Two wrongs make a far right
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > > @TheJezziah said:

    >

    > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people

    >

    > >

    >

    > > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.

    >

    >

    >

    > The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?

    >

    > They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.



    They may well get more votes than Labour. If they can’t win then as things stand neither can we. Corbyn has lost the mojo he had on 2017. He forgot the first rule of opposition, oppose!

    So if someone said UKIP can't win the next election in 2014 you would have said neither can any of the parties below then?

    Presumably if Labour come second the next election is between Brexit party and Labour but if they come third then the next election is between the Lib Dems and Brexit party?

    This government has suffered record defeats and is crumbling (or has crumbled?) as we speak, they look like they've been pretty opposed...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Jonathan said:

    > @kle4 said:

    > The Corbynites fear Jess. They can’t handle popular independent people.

    >

    > Especially female ones

    >

    > Yes, and ones that point out that the emperor has no clothes:

    >

    >



    >

    >

    >

    > I am curious what the reaction will be if labour actually do fine in this election. Its like 2017 - some lab mps really dislike Corbyn and his politics, but for others they worries he would lead them to a massive defeat, and melted away when he did not.

    >

    > Jess is not one of those, but if she looks to have panicked about how bad things are unnecessarily it must surely impact how she proceeds.



    Labour are not going to do fine. Fine is being ready to take office. Fine is winning it with a safety margin. Labour are not fine.
    It was a hypothetical, humour me
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729
    Foxy said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people

    >

    > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.



    The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?

    They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.
    Labour are going to be humiliated tommorow. I stand by my prediction that they will be fourth. Yet we will still be told Jezza is an election winner.

    WT actual F are you expecting to be third?!!!
This discussion has been closed.