> @YBarddCwsc said: > > @Paristonda said: > > > > Blair left on as close to a high as you can realistically get - wasn't openly forced out like May or Thatcher, never lost a GE, didn't leave because of his own cockup like Cameron. Can't get much better. > > Massive rewriting of recent history. > > Blair was forced out (much like May, in fact, but without the tears). > > And I think by any objective definition, the Iraq War was a much greater cockup than the Referendum. And much. much more shameful. > > Unless you think the deaths of arabs don't matter.
The Iraq war was a cockup. But it didn't do for Blair. He won another election after that. It didn't fatally undermine his authority in the country or the party. It should have, but it didn't.
> @david_herdson said: > > @edmundintokyo said: > > That was fun, but I think the Corbyn part is a bit too much of a right-wing stereotype. I'm not saying he'd be good, but I do think he'd govern with a view to winning the next election. > > He doesn't look to be running an opposition with that primary aim?
> I'm struggling to believe Matt Hancock is a real person and not an Ali G style extended joke that's being played on everyone.
Outside of politics in any other walk of life he'd be pretty much unemployable yet here we are with him running to be Prime Minister of the country...
That's harsh, but he does seem very un-self-aware. I don't think we can have another leader who has any difficulties or awkwardness expressing or comporting themselves in any situation.
> @GIN1138 said: > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > I'm struggling to believe Matt Hancock is a real person and not an Ali G style extended joke that's being played on everyone. > > Outside of politics in any other walk of life he'd be pretty much unemployable yet here we are with him running to be Prime Minister of the country...
He was Minister for Portsmouth in the Cameron government, followed by Mark Francois:
Looks to me like Rory Stewart is setting himself up for pole position as the “told you so” candidate in the Tory leadership election that follows Johnson’s downfall.
> @ah009 said: > > @YBarddCwsc said: > > > @Paristonda said: > > > > > > Blair left on as close to a high as you can realistically get - wasn't openly forced out like May or Thatcher, never lost a GE, didn't leave because of his own cockup like Cameron. Can't get much better. > > > > Massive rewriting of recent history. > > > > Blair was forced out (much like May, in fact, but without the tears). > > > > And I think by any objective definition, the Iraq War was a much greater cockup than the Referendum. And much. much more shameful. > > > > Unless you think the deaths of arabs don't matter. > > The Iraq war was a cockup. But it didn't do for Blair. He won another election after that. It didn't fatally undermine his authority in the country or the party. It should have, but it didn't.
I think that is because although Iraq was a cock up, the full scale of it took time to be revealed. The initial invasion was far swifter and less bloody than many had predicted beforehand. Saddam was toppled. The Iraqi army didn't fight hard. It was the slow drip, drip of anarchy, atrocity, and chaos which followed that did for it. The failure to get a stable government, the lack of any exit route, the non existence of any WMD, and the revelation of a complete and utter absence of any post-conflict planning. That took a few years to dawn. So it fatally undermined his legacy. If it weren't for Iraq, I reckon we would look back and see Blair as a political Titan.
> @SandyRentool said: > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM. > > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate. > > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates?
The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. And that Brexit is undeliverable. It’s why they will never stop feeling betrayed. An unwinnable war is what Boris Johnson did more than anyone else to create. It will destroy the Tories, Labour and the UK, but not the EU.
I don't agree. Defeat for the EU happens after we leave, and free from its stagnating influence, our economy outstrips that of the continent.
May's departure was an entirely necessary step for the country to move forward. But let's not forget that the task facing her from the point of her election defeat was incredibly difficult: to secure a deal with the EU that could pass Parliament with Corbyn to the left and the ERG to the right. The constraints that bound her will apply to her successor, whoever that may be. To consider the main ones:
1) The EU will stand by Ireland. This has two key implications: the backstop will not change materially in any future deal (it would be possible to amend it to be NI-only as the EU initially proposed, but the DUP would hate that more than the current deal), but also that the EU will ultimately offer a new extension if no deal is a threat. Painful as crisis-in-perpetuity is, the EU has plenty of experience in the matter.
2) The Tory right are irreconcilable. A new leader chosen as a "true believer" will most likely try to test out whether the EU will fold on the backstop, which will get the same response as the last 50 times we asked. This means there is no possible version of the deal that will win-over the 20 to 30 true believers (as per MV3), whoever is leader.
3) Labour doesn't want to bail-out the Tories. As shown by May's belated attempt to talk to Corbyn has shown, the Labour leadership's price for a deal on Brexit is significantly higher (customs union and/or second referendum) than any Tory leader can offer without undermining their position within the party. Corbyn may not have a policy on Brexit, but opposing what the Tories put forward comes naturally to him.
Perhaps in retrospect it was possible to have found a way through these constraints with a deal, but it certainty isn't now that positions have hardened on both sides. That leaves us with two realistic outcomes (other than endless delays): no deal or a general election.
I think the sensible option for the new Conservative leader would be to immediately call an election once elected - act whilst you have a honeymoon period, rather than after you get bogged down in re-treading the same path as May. Yes it's risky and may result in becoming the shortest term as PM in history, but the alternatives are no better.
Regarding no deal: the new PM may be able to get no deal through by leaving things to the last minute and Parliament is unable to force their hand. But choosing no deal would most likely result in the government collapsing shortly thereafter, as moderates abandon ship. If you think the new Tory leader will do badly when just elected, just imagine the outcome as all the negative consequences of no deal come to fruition.
Can I just point out that the ballot being cast in that image will probably be put on the "spoiled" pile. You're supposed to vote for a candidate, not just draw a giant cross on the blank side of your ballot paper.
Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
> @SouthamObserver said: > The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. ------------------------ Yes, that the EU would agree to something in itself makes it unacceptable in their eyes.
> @Ishmael_Z said: > > @SandyRentool said: > > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM. > > > > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate. > > > > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand. > > Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates?
His entire career has been a stroll towards Number 10. Unsuitability, incompetence, lack of principles and nastiness are just shrugged off as he heads towards his destiny. The sad thing is that for some reason so many Tory members have been taken in by him.
> @ah009 said: > > @YBarddCwsc said: > > > @Paristonda said: > > > > > > Blair left on as close to a high as you can realistically get - wasn't openly forced out like May or Thatcher, never lost a GE, didn't leave because of his own cockup like Cameron. Can't get much better. > > > > Massive rewriting of recent history. > > > > Blair was forced out (much like May, in fact, but without the tears). > > > > And I think by any objective definition, the Iraq War was a much greater cockup than the Referendum. And much. much more shameful. > > > > Unless you think the deaths of arabs don't matter. > > The Iraq war was a cockup. But it didn't do for Blair. He won another election after that. It didn't fatally undermine his authority in the country or the party. It should have, but it didn't.
Blair's credibility had gone by 2007 - there was a reason the local elections were a disaster for Labour:
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. And that Brexit is undeliverable. It’s why they will never stop feeling betrayed. An unwinnable war is what Boris Johnson did more than anyone else to create. It will destroy the Tories, Labour and the UK, but not the EU. > > I don't agree. Defeat for the EU happens after we leave, and free from its stagnating influence, our economy outstrips that of the continent.
You say you don't agree but you've just validated his argument. If the EU is successful, you will feel thwarted.
The Conservatives are more harmed by going into Diet Farage territory than revoking.
When UKIP was roaring in the 2015 election, what happened? They got a string of second places, often in areas that won't ever vote Conservative. A roaring BP poses a threat to Labour's northern constituencies. But Lib Dems enjoying a purple patch will primarily take seats from the Conservatives.
Heading off the Lib Dems protects those marginals far better than trying to ape Farage.
Yes, lots of people will be unhappy if a deal passes or we have another referendum. But the Remain types won't vote Conservative if we leave with no deal, and the hardline Leavers will not be grateful if it's buggered up (which seems eminently possible).
Should stress I'm undecided about this argument but thought it worth mentioning. The focus, understandable as it might be, on the threat to the blues from the right flank means some are taking their eye off the left flank.
> The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. And that Brexit is undeliverable. It’s why they will never stop feeling betrayed. An unwinnable war is what Boris Johnson did more than anyone else to create. It will destroy the Tories, Labour and the UK, but not the EU.
>
> I don't agree. Defeat for the EU happens after we leave, and free from its stagnating influence, our economy outstrips that of the continent.
You say you don't agree but you've just validated his argument. If the EU is successful, you will feel thwarted.
Not at all. I regard slow economic growth as a natural result of statist, high tax, high regulation regimes. The EU will remain a key market for UK goods and services, so its success is something we should all hope for. But naturally I believe the UK will do better alone.
> @SandyRentool said: > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > > @SandyRentool said: > > > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM. > > > > > > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate. > > > > > > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand. > > > > Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates? > > His entire career has been a stroll towards Number 10. Unsuitability, incompetence, lack of principles and nastiness are just shrugged off as he heads towards his destiny. The sad thing is that for some reason so many Tory members have been taken in by him.
The ability to keep getting away with things is admired in a politician more than dull competence.
> > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM.
> >
> > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate.
> >
> > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
>
> Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates?
His entire career has been a stroll towards Number 10. Unsuitability, incompetence, lack of principles and nastiness are just shrugged off as he heads towards his destiny. The sad thing is that for some reason so many Tory members have been taken in by him.
At the moment I can't see Tories going for anyone but a charisma candidate, and there is only one. Most of the candidates are boring beyond belief. Most people would not recognise the rest in a line up. Even Hammond, who would be all right, isn't standing and is a bit dry. I don't think the party or the nation are in the mood for that.
However terrible the scenario David Herdson presents is, all I can say is that if it ends with Jess Phillips as PM, Labour demolished and Tories as they currently are reduced to a rump it would be worth it.
Even the Tory membership might vote for a guaranteed competent parliament, but that is not available either now or probably after a GE, so until be can have Jess Phillips we shall just have to make do.
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > > Not at all. I regard slow economic growth as a natural result of statist, high tax, high regulation regimes. The EU will remain a key market for UK goods and services, so its success is something we should all hope for. But naturally I believe the UK will do better alone. --------
So you want to combat statism by imposing more national state control? Combat high tax by increasing the burden of government? Combat regulation by creating new national regulation for the sake of divergence?
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > Perhaps you could explain. > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > Perhaps you could explain. > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
And to point out that while 2018 might have shown a fall from 2017 it still had the second highest level of overseas visitors and overseas visitors spending on record:
Mr. C, there was some. It found Boris to put off the most people (same people found him far and away the most popular candidate with the Conservative membership).
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > > > Perhaps you could explain. > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists. > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
LOL
Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
The one thing that endears Boris to me is that he is the only British politician to hold high office who has ever done anything positive for cycling - the construction of the Superhighways. (Sadiq Khan has been an absolute flop in this area.) If he were to roll this out nationwide then I might even vote for him...
> @SandyRentool said: > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM. > > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate. > > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
I'm not sure he has a sense of entitlement in the way, say Brown, did. He just strikes me as an amoral chancer. And not an endearing one.
This article from Rachel Johnson is so Change UK. From Latin quotes to putting your foot in it by implying someone who voted for you wasted their vote...
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > > > > > Perhaps you could explain. > > > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists. > > > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry. > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > LOL > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> @El_Capitano said: > The one thing that endears Boris to me is that he is the only British politician to hold high office who has ever done anything positive for cycling - the construction of the Superhighways. (Sadiq Khan has been an absolute flop in this area.) If he were to roll this out nationwide then I might even vote for him...
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > > The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. And that Brexit is undeliverable. It’s why they will never stop feeling betrayed. An unwinnable war is what Boris Johnson did more than anyone else to create. It will destroy the Tories, Labour and the UK, but not the EU. > > > > > > I don't agree. Defeat for the EU happens after we leave, and free from its stagnating influence, our economy outstrips that of the continent. > > > > You say you don't agree but you've just validated his argument. If the EU is successful, you will feel thwarted. > > Not at all. I regard slow economic growth as a natural result of statist, high tax, high regulation regimes. The EU will remain a key market for UK goods and services, so its success is something we should all hope for. But naturally I believe the UK will do better alone.
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > > > > > Perhaps you could explain. > > > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists. > > > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry. > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > LOL > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
Why do you think there was a large fall in visitors in 2018 after a number of years of growth, despite a weak pound?
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > > > > > > > Perhaps you could explain. > > > > > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > > > > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists. > > > > > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry. > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > LOL > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
That is exactly what you're saying.
You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
You should have checked the data before having your rant.
Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience.
> @JonCisBack said: > Is there any polling on who has heard of the various contenders, amongst the general public? > > I know it's not the general public that votes but it's odd to think we could in theory have a Prime Minister most people have not even heard of today.
Most people haven't heard of would apply to pretty much all the declared candidates. Except Boris. Gove probably. Hunt and Javid possibly. Leadsom is a stretch.
Space dictated that the Scottish sub sample of David Herdson's excellnt narrative was omitted and accordingly detailed below is a summary of events north of the border 2019-22 :
The general election of 5th December 2019 saw the SNP strengthen their position winning 46 of the 57 seats on offer with the LibDems on 7 and Labour 4. The Conservatives lost all their seats including Moray by 12 votes after three recounts.
The new Prime Minister Corbyn offered the SNP a Scottish independence referendum within two years in return for confidence and supply for the period until Scottish independence or for a full five year term if Scotland voted "No" again. First Minister Sturgeon agreed with the provisos the vote be held within a year, that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and a comprehensive free trade agreement was included. Corbyn agreed.
Corbyn and Sturgeon moved quickly and both the Scottish and Westminster parliaments legislated for a Scottish independence referendum vote on Saturday 28th and Sunday 29th November 2020 with the result announced the following day - St. Andrews Day.
The referendum campaign was again a bitterly contested affair and numerous incidents highlighted the divisive nature of the vote :
1. An Ayrshire man calling himself "SuperMalcolmG" attacked Ruth Davidson with a volley of turnip milkshakes. He was subsequently sentenced to community service for twelve months working with distressed former Conservative MP's. He absconded and sought political asylum in the Ecuadorian consulate in Edinburgh. He remains there to this day.
2. Thirty Scottish Liberal Democrat "NO" campaigners went missing in the Auchentennach area on Burns Night and haven't been seen since. Local laird JackW was praised for organising a county wide search and posting a substantial reward. He also sent large hampers, including fine pies, to the families of the missing.
3. First Minister Sturgeon accused Scottish Tories and rogue Royal Navy officers of deliberating ensuring she was unavailable for the last month of the campaign as inexplicably she became stranded on a Faslane based nuclear sub that went "quiet" for operational reasons during what was supposed to be a farewell visit to the departing submarines by the SNP leader. Speculation that other SNP luminaries were not unhappy about this unfortunate incident remains common currency.
Turnout reached 89.4%. Counting continued well into St. Andrews Day however it was clear by 2:00am that "YES" had won by 52-48% and it was at 4:17am that the 1745 votes from Auchentennach ensured that Scotland had voted "YES".
Mrs Sturgeon claimed victory three months later after the newly re-named sub HMS Smithson finally surfaced in Antarctica.
Scotland became independent on April 1st 2022. Was it an omen ? ....
> @david_herdson said: > > @Swindon_Addick said: > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left. > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side. > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume. > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be. > > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not. > .
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you could explain. > > > > > > > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > > > > > > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists. > > > > > > > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit withIf you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry. > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand. > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK. > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience>
My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
> @NickPalmer said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @NickPalmer said: > > > Entertaining article, thanks David. I shocked a friend recently by saying that politics nowadays was fun. "But it's horrifying and tragic!" Well, yes, that too. > > > > We're seeing the exposure of our political class as incompetent charlatans - there's something deeply cathartic about their failure. > > > > On more local issues Stodge reported a power sharing agreement in Waverley. > > > > Did you get a seat at the top table ? > > Yes, I'm one of the 8 on the exec, responsible for operational planning, parking and civil enforcement. All very harmonious so far - the Tories are correctly noting that there's a Corbynite sharing power, eeek, but people are saying meh, let's see what they actually do. > > In shades of 2010 in reverse, we've discovered a huge black hole in the accounts - annual budget £10 million, prospective deficit £3.8 million. The Conservative administration appears to have believed in magic money trees, and left office still planning expenditure on vanity projects like new council offices and new robes for councillors. If we're honest there isn't that much politics in local council business, but my general aim is to prove that one can be left-wing in principle, but focused and competent.
Smells like bollocks to me.
Sounds far too perfectly written for a Labour campaign leaflet.
In other news, there's been a stabbing overnight in my <strike>large village</strike> small town. In the last two years, that's one machete attack near my son's school, one murder in a household, one outside a pub, and it looks like last night a 15 year old stabbed an 18 year old outside the pub.
An epidemic in our locality, or part of a wider trend?
(I hasten to add I'm happy here, and like the place.)
Based on a vote share of: Lab 28, Brexit 25%, Lib Dem 18%, Con 14%, Green 4%, SNP 4%, Change UK 3%, UKIP 2%, Plaid 1%, Others 1%, UK-Elect projects: Lab 303, Brexit 210, Lib Dem 57, SNP 54, Plaid 5, Green 1, Ind 1, Speaker 1. Based on your assessment of the situation, I think a Lab / SNP coalition (which would become a Lab majority government post independence) is the most likely option. Note no Con MP's elected.
> @SouthamObserver said: > So Johnson seems to have offered Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart senior jobs in his government. One is smart and patriotic enough to say No.
Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that your best response ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time. > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant. > > > > > > > > Perhaps you could explain. > > > > > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists. > > > > > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists. > > > > > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry. > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > LOL > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > Why do you think there was a large fall in visitors in 2018 after a number of years of growth, despite a weak pound?
There hasn't been a large fall. A 1% fall is a small fall and only from a record high. Probably because the world economy is slowing and people are struggling same as the last time there were falls in 2009 and 2010. Dont forget many parts of the Eurozone are in major slowdowns or even recession like Italy.
Plus numbers last year were still higher than ever recorded before the referendum.
> @Casino_Royale said: > > @david_herdson said: > > > @Swindon_Addick said: > > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left. > > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side. > > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume. > > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be. > > > > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not. > > . > > LOL.
Galloway would probably be part of the TBP government. One of the oddest things is the way that some people on the hard left have flocked to TBP.
Looking at the turnout numbers provided so far by Matt Singh, I think that UKIP maxed out the anti-EU vote in Labour Leave areas in 2014, and TBP may not even match them, but that TBP will pick up a very large contingent of new voters in Conservative Leave areas where turnout is up on 2014.
> @rottenborough said: > Also it appears to be in ink, when everyone knows that MI5 insist on pencils in the polling booths.
A soft pencil can produce a pleasingly dark mark if you press firmly. Recommend a 3b. But now you've drawn my attention to it, this X appears to have been printed. I would contend that there is enough evidence here for a police investigation. If someone is bringing their own printed ballots to the polling station, something is terribly amiss.
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand. > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK. > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
> @SouthamObserver said: > So Johnson seems to have offered Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart senior jobs in his government. One is smart and patriotic enough to say No.
Rory Stewart may make it into the final two.
I'll be looking for someone with bollocks (figuratively).
> This article from Rachel Johnson is so Change UK. From Latin quotes to putting your foot in it by implying someone who voted for you wasted their vote...
> @Sean_F said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > @david_herdson said: > > > > @Swindon_Addick said: > > > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left. > > > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side. > > > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume. > > > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be. > > > > > > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not. > > > . > > > > LOL. > > Galloway would probably be part of the TBP government. One of the oddest things is the way that some people on the hard left have flocked to TBP. > > Looking at the turnout numbers provided so far by Matt Singh, I think that UKIP maxed out the anti-EU vote in Labour Leave areas in 2014, and TBP may not even match them, but that TBP will pick up a very large contingent of new voters in Conservative Leave areas where turnout is up on 2014.
> @dixiedean said: > > @JonCisBack said: > > Is there any polling on who has heard of the various contenders, amongst the general public? > > > > I know it's not the general public that votes but it's odd to think we could in theory have a Prime Minister most people have not even heard of today. > > Most people haven't heard of would apply to pretty much all the declared candidates. Except Boris. Gove probably. Hunt and Javid possibly. Leadsom is a stretch.
Leadsom would be a symptom of certifiable insanity.
Along the lines of "Mother! Oh God, mother! Blood! Blood!"
> @Sean_F said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > @david_herdson said: > > > > @Swindon_Addick said: > > > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left. > > > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side. > > > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume. > > > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be. > > > > > > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not. > > > . > > > > LOL. > > Galloway would probably be part of the TBP government. One of the oddest things is the way that some people on the hard left have flocked to TBP. > > Looking at the turnout numbers provided so far by Matt Singh, I think that UKIP maxed out the anti-EU vote in Labour Leave areas in 2014, and TBP may not even match them, but that TBP will pick up a very large contingent of new voters in Conservative Leave areas where turnout is up on 2014.
The local elections showed a swing to the Conservatives in some Northern and Midland Leave areas.
I wonder if those voters will have stuck with the Conservatives again last week rather than switch to TBP.
> @williamglenn said: > > @dixiedean said: > > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me. > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
> @OldKingCole said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > @dixiedean said: > > > > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me. > > > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support. > > Would anyone trust him to actually deliver?
Why not.
A Boris government would likely have such a high turnover of personnel that everything would get a job at some point.
> @another_richard said: > > @OldKingCole said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > @dixiedean said: > > > > > > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me. > > > > > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support. > > > > Would anyone trust him to actually deliver? > > Why not. > > A Boris government would likely have such a high turnover of personnel that everything would get a job at some point.
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > > > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand. > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK. > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case. > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make. > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries. > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending. > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out. > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are. > > As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
A rant :-D
I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
I'm sure any lawyer could come up with sob stories about their clients under any Home Secretary over the past 200 years.
"Just not up to it" is all one needs to say about Theresa May, rather than accusing her of murdering people, as several people on that thread are doing.
> @dixiedean said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > So Johnson seems to have offered Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart senior jobs in his government. One is smart and patriotic enough to say No. > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
> @williamglenn said: > > @dixiedean said: > > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me. > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > > > > > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand. > > > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK. > > > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case. > > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make. > > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries. > > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending. > > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA > > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out. > > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are. > > > > As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018. > > A rant :-D > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness. > >
" Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? "
Yes, a rant.
Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ?
> @Philip_Thompson said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > @dixiedean said: > > > > > > > > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me. > > > > > > > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support. > > > > > > Would anyone trust him to actually deliver? > > > > Why not. > > > > A Boris government would likely have such a high turnover of personnel that everything would get a job at some point. > > So like May then?
I see Davidson trying to promote the same lies as TGOHF did the other day, she has less excuse given she was the competition against Nicola when she was elected by a landslide. Lying Tory to the end. When you know fine well that nobody can become First Minister without a vote *in Holyrood* (because you took part in the process as a candidate yourself and got outvoted 4:1), but you’re so desperate to score political points that you’ll happily talk rubbish https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1131868442716495872
The Tory party is in a sad state if Rory Stewart makes the final two.
Not quite. The party and the country would be in a better place than now if being a bright, thoughtful and able One Nation centrist was just the qualification needed. But it isn't, and the leadership should not be inflicted on him just as it is now clear it should never have been inflicted on TM.
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > > > > > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand. > > > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK. > > > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case. > > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make. > > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries. > > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending. > > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA > > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out. > > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are. > > > > As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018. > > A rant :-D > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness. > >
The numbers "fell" to higher than they ever were pre-referendum. Ouch!
> @Dura_Ace said: > > You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania.
If Steve Baker made more of his military career he might be in with a shout.
> @Dura_Ace said: > The Tory party is in a sad state if Rory Stewart makes the final two. > > You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania.
> @another_richard said: > > @Dura_Ace said: > > The Tory party is in a sad state if Rory Stewart makes the final two. > > > > You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania. > > Wasn't that Eric Newby ?
Though if travel writing is an attribute then SeanT must be a contender.
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018 > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand. > > > > > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had visitors in the UK. > > > > > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > > > > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case. > > > > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make. > > > > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries. > > > > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending. > > > > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA > > > > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out. > > > > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are. > > > > > > As they are in in the UK were 2017 and 2018. > > > > A rant :-D > > > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness. > > > > > > " Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? " > > Yes, a rant. > > Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ?
You clearly don’t have the ability to differentiate between a rant and an observation. And why would people spending money in the UK disappoint me? I’d like them to spend more, not less. That’s why it’s such a shame that last year we saw a significant dip after so many years of growth.
In other news, there's been a stabbing overnight in my large village small town. In the last two years, that's one machete attack near my son's school, one murder in a household, one outside a pub, and it looks like last night a 15 year old stabbed an 18 year old outside the pub.
An epidemic in our locality, or part of a wider trend?
(I hasten to add I'm happy here, and like the place.)
The zombie knives that are being used/confiscated around here are horrendous. What is the world coming to?
I'm sure any lawyer could come up with sob stories about their clients under any Home Secretary over the past 200 years.
"Just not up to it" is all one needs to say about Theresa May, rather than accusing her of murdering people, as several people on that thread are doing.
Doesn't alter the fact that the Home Office is an abomination.
Brexit chaos really is a dream for Corbyn. Not only is Labour regularly recording polling leads big enough for an outright majority for the first time in years, but now the centrists are purging themselves
> @Stereotomy said: > > @rottenborough said: > > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132234588254814208 > > > > Campbell heading for Liberals? > > Brexit chaos really is a dream for Corbyn. Not only is Labour regularly recording polling leads big enough for an outright majority for the first time in years, but now the centrists are purging themselves
Are they, not only is Labour well short of a majority without the SNP in most polls but loss of Remainer centrists to the Liberals helps the Tories under FPTP if they regain Brexit Party voters
> @SouthamObserver said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > > > > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had visitors in the UK. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case. > > > > > > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make. > > > > > > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries. > > > > > > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending. > > > > > > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA > > > > > > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out. > > > > > > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are. > > > > > > > > As they are in in the UK were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > A rant :-D > > > > > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness. > > > > > > > > > > " Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? " > > > > Yes, a rant. > > > > Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ? > > You clearly don’t have the ability to differentiate between a rant and an observation. And why would people spending money in the UK disappoint me? I’d like them to spend more, not less. That’s why it’s such a shame that last year we saw a significant dip after so many years of growth.
A 'significant dip' to the second highest on record.
The record year being the year of 'crush the saboteurs' which you claimed created 'an immensely negative impression of the UK'.
Check the data next time - you'll find it at this website:
> You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania.
If Steve Baker made more of his military career he might be in with a shout.
I heard from an acquaintance of the light blue persuasion that Steve "Brexit Hardman" Baker had a pretty solid reputation during his time in the crabs.
Space dictated that the Scottish sub sample of David Herdson's excellnt narrative was omitted and accordingly detailed below is a summary of events north of the border 2019-22 :
4. The Conservatives lost all their seats including Moray by 12 votes after three recounts.
The new Prime Minister Corbyn offered the SNP a Scottish independence referendum within two years in return for confidence and supply for the period until Scottish independence or for a full five year term if Scotland voted "No" again. First Minister Sturgeon agreed with the provisos the vote be held within a year, that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and a comprehensive free trade agreement was included. Corbyn agreed.
The referendum campaign was again a bitterly contested affair and numerous incidents highlighted the divisive nature of the vote :
1. An Ayrshire man calling himself "SuperMalcolmG" attacked Ruth Davidson with a volley of turnip milkshakes. He was subsequently sentenced to community service for twelve months working with distressed former Conservative MP's. He absconded and sought political asylum in the Ecuadorian consulate in Edinburgh. He remains there to this day.
2. Thirty Scottish Liberal Democrat "NO" campaigners went missing in the Auchentennach area on Burns Night and haven't been seen since. Local laird JackW was praised for organising a county wide search and posting a substantial reward. He also sent large hampers, including fine pies, to the families of the missing.
3. First Minister Sturgeon accused Scottish Tories and rogue Royal Navy officers of deliberating ensuring she was unavailable for the last month of the campaign as inexplicably she became stranded on a Faslane based nuclear sub that went "quiet" for operational reasons during what was supposed to be a farewell visit to the departing submarines by the SNP leader. Speculation that other SNP luminaries were not unhappy about this unfortunate incident remains common currency.
Turnout reached 89.4%. Counting continued well into St. Andrews Day however it was clear by 2:00am that "YES" had won by 52-48% and it was at 4:17am that the 1745 votes from Auchentennach ensured that Scotland had voted "YES".
Mrs Sturgeon claimed victory three months later after the newly re-named sub HMS Smithson finally surfaced in Antarctica.
Scotland became independent on April 1st 2022. Was it an omen ? ....
> @another_richard said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > @another_richard said: > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said: > > > > > > > @another_richard said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had visitors in the UK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case. > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make. > > > > > > > > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries. > > > > > > > > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending. > > > > > > > > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA > > > > > > > > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are. > > > > > > > > > > As they are in in the UK were 2017 and 2018. > > > > > > > > A rant :-D > > > > > > > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? " > > > > > > Yes, a rant. > > > > > > Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ? > > > > You clearly don’tso many years of growth. > > A 'significant dip' to the second highest on record. > > The record year being the year of 'crush the saboteurs' which you claimed created 'an immensely negative impression of the UK'. > > Check the data next time - you'll find it at this website: > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/
If a number rises on a continuous basis over a series of years and then falls by 3% that is a significant dip. A fall of 7% is even more significant. I am sorry you do not understand this. Just as I am sorry you do not understand my point about newspaper headlines and political rhetoric..
Comments
> > @Paristonda said:
> >
> > Blair left on as close to a high as you can realistically get - wasn't openly forced out like May or Thatcher, never lost a GE, didn't leave because of his own cockup like Cameron. Can't get much better.
>
> Massive rewriting of recent history.
>
> Blair was forced out (much like May, in fact, but without the tears).
>
> And I think by any objective definition, the Iraq War was a much greater cockup than the Referendum. And much. much more shameful.
>
> Unless you think the deaths of arabs don't matter.
The Iraq war was a cockup. But it didn't do for Blair. He won another election after that. It didn't fatally undermine his authority in the country or the party. It should have, but it didn't.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > >
> > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > >
> > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> >
> >
> > You mean crush the saboteurs?
>
> Is that your best response ???
>
> Try something relevant to the issue next time.
I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> > @edmundintokyo said:
> > That was fun, but I think the Corbyn part is a bit too much of a right-wing stereotype. I'm not saying he'd be good, but I do think he'd govern with a view to winning the next election.
>
> He doesn't look to be running an opposition with that primary aim?
I think he is, he just isn't very good at it.
I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate.
I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
> > @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > I'm struggling to believe Matt Hancock is a real person and not an Ali G style extended joke that's being played on everyone.
>
> Outside of politics in any other walk of life he'd be pretty much unemployable yet here we are with him running to be Prime Minister of the country...
He was Minister for Portsmouth in the Cameron government, followed by Mark Francois:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Portsmouth
That must be a contender for the most bizarre government job in recent history.
> > @YBarddCwsc said:
> > > @Paristonda said:
> > >
> > > Blair left on as close to a high as you can realistically get - wasn't openly forced out like May or Thatcher, never lost a GE, didn't leave because of his own cockup like Cameron. Can't get much better.
> >
> > Massive rewriting of recent history.
> >
> > Blair was forced out (much like May, in fact, but without the tears).
> >
> > And I think by any objective definition, the Iraq War was a much greater cockup than the Referendum. And much. much more shameful.
> >
> > Unless you think the deaths of arabs don't matter.
>
> The Iraq war was a cockup. But it didn't do for Blair. He won another election after that. It didn't fatally undermine his authority in the country or the party. It should have, but it didn't.
I think that is because although Iraq was a cock up, the full scale of it took time to be revealed. The initial invasion was far swifter and less bloody than many had predicted beforehand. Saddam was toppled. The Iraqi army didn't fight hard.
It was the slow drip, drip of anarchy, atrocity, and chaos which followed that did for it. The failure to get a stable government, the lack of any exit route, the non existence of any WMD, and the revelation of a complete and utter absence of any post-conflict planning.
That took a few years to dawn.
So it fatally undermined his legacy.
If it weren't for Iraq, I reckon we would look back and see Blair as a political Titan.
Of course, given his name, it should be twice as long.
(Sorry - coat duly got)
> Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM.
>
> I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate.
>
> I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates?
1) The EU will stand by Ireland. This has two key implications: the backstop will not change materially in any future deal (it would be possible to amend it to be NI-only as the EU initially proposed, but the DUP would hate that more than the current deal), but also that the EU will ultimately offer a new extension if no deal is a threat. Painful as crisis-in-perpetuity is, the EU has plenty of experience in the matter.
2) The Tory right are irreconcilable. A new leader chosen as a "true believer" will most likely try to test out whether the EU will fold on the backstop, which will get the same response as the last 50 times we asked. This means there is no possible version of the deal that will win-over the 20 to 30 true believers (as per MV3), whoever is leader.
3) Labour doesn't want to bail-out the Tories. As shown by May's belated attempt to talk to Corbyn has shown, the Labour leadership's price for a deal on Brexit is significantly higher (customs union and/or second referendum) than any Tory leader can offer without undermining their position within the party. Corbyn may not have a policy on Brexit, but opposing what the Tories put forward comes naturally to him.
Perhaps in retrospect it was possible to have found a way through these constraints with a deal, but it certainty isn't now that positions have hardened on both sides. That leaves us with two realistic outcomes (other than endless delays): no deal or a general election.
I think the sensible option for the new Conservative leader would be to immediately call an election once elected - act whilst you have a honeymoon period, rather than after you get bogged down in re-treading the same path as May. Yes it's risky and may result in becoming the shortest term as PM in history, but the alternatives are no better.
Regarding no deal: the new PM may be able to get no deal through by leaving things to the last minute and Parliament is unable to force their hand. But choosing no deal would most likely result in the government collapsing shortly thereafter, as moderates abandon ship. If you think the new Tory leader will do badly when just elected, just imagine the outcome as all the negative consequences of no deal come to fruition.
If I keep doing that, the politically unaware are going to be to put it mildly suspicious.
> 50.7% in 2014.
>
> Mayoral elections same day then
>
> https://twitter.com/jchristy93/status/1132197394479820800
Can I just point out that the ballot being cast in that image will probably be put on the "spoiled" pile.
You're supposed to vote for a candidate, not just draw a giant cross on the blank side of your ballot paper.
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > >
> > >
> > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> >
> > Is that your best response ???
> >
> > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
>
> I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
Perhaps you could explain.
Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1132213974123057152
> The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated.
------------------------
Yes, that the EU would agree to something in itself makes it unacceptable in their eyes.
> > @SandyRentool said:
> > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM.
> >
> > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate.
> >
> > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
>
> Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates?
His entire career has been a stroll towards Number 10. Unsuitability, incompetence, lack of principles and nastiness are just shrugged off as he heads towards his destiny. The sad thing is that for some reason so many Tory members have been taken in by him.
> > @YBarddCwsc said:
> > > @Paristonda said:
> > >
> > > Blair left on as close to a high as you can realistically get - wasn't openly forced out like May or Thatcher, never lost a GE, didn't leave because of his own cockup like Cameron. Can't get much better.
> >
> > Massive rewriting of recent history.
> >
> > Blair was forced out (much like May, in fact, but without the tears).
> >
> > And I think by any objective definition, the Iraq War was a much greater cockup than the Referendum. And much. much more shameful.
> >
> > Unless you think the deaths of arabs don't matter.
>
> The Iraq war was a cockup. But it didn't do for Blair. He won another election after that. It didn't fatally undermine his authority in the country or the party. It should have, but it didn't.
Blair's credibility had gone by 2007 - there was a reason the local elections were a disaster for Labour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_local_elections
> The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. And that Brexit is undeliverable. It’s why they will never stop feeling betrayed. An unwinnable war is what Boris Johnson did more than anyone else to create. It will destroy the Tories, Labour and the UK, but not the EU.
>
> I don't agree. Defeat for the EU happens after we leave, and free from its stagnating influence, our economy outstrips that of the continent.
You say you don't agree but you've just validated his argument. If the EU is successful, you will feel thwarted.
The Conservatives are more harmed by going into Diet Farage territory than revoking.
When UKIP was roaring in the 2015 election, what happened? They got a string of second places, often in areas that won't ever vote Conservative. A roaring BP poses a threat to Labour's northern constituencies. But Lib Dems enjoying a purple patch will primarily take seats from the Conservatives.
Heading off the Lib Dems protects those marginals far better than trying to ape Farage.
Yes, lots of people will be unhappy if a deal passes or we have another referendum. But the Remain types won't vote Conservative if we leave with no deal, and the hardline Leavers will not be grateful if it's buggered up (which seems eminently possible).
Should stress I'm undecided about this argument but thought it worth mentioning. The focus, understandable as it might be, on the threat to the blues from the right flank means some are taking their eye off the left flank.
> > @Ishmael_Z said:
> > > @SandyRentool said:
> > > Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM.
> > >
> > > I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate.
> > >
> > > I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
> >
> > Where do you get this "sense of entitlement" from? What has he said or done to suggest that the same rules should not apply to him as to the other candidates?
>
> His entire career has been a stroll towards Number 10. Unsuitability, incompetence, lack of principles and nastiness are just shrugged off as he heads towards his destiny. The sad thing is that for some reason so many Tory members have been taken in by him.
The ability to keep getting away with things is admired in a politician more than dull competence.
I know it's not the general public that votes but it's odd to think we could in theory have a Prime Minister most people have not even heard of today.
However terrible the scenario David Herdson presents is, all I can say is that if it ends with Jess Phillips as PM, Labour demolished and Tories as they currently are reduced to a rump it would be worth it.
Even the Tory membership might vote for a guaranteed competent parliament, but that is not available either now or probably after a GE, so until be can have Jess Phillips we shall just have to make do.
>
> Not at all. I regard slow economic growth as a natural result of statist, high tax, high regulation regimes. The EU will remain a key market for UK goods and services, so its success is something we should all hope for. But naturally I believe the UK will do better alone.
--------
So you want to combat statism by imposing more national state control? Combat high tax by increasing the burden of government? Combat regulation by creating new national regulation for the sake of divergence?
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > >
> > > Is that your best response ???
> > >
> > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> >
> > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
>
> Perhaps you could explain.
>
> Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
>
> Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > >
> > > Is that your best response ???
> > >
> > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> >
> > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
>
> Perhaps you could explain.
>
> Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
>
> Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
And to point out that while 2018 might have shown a fall from 2017 it still had the second highest level of overseas visitors and overseas visitors spending on record:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > > >
> > > > Is that your best response ???
> > > >
> > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> > >
> > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> >
> > Perhaps you could explain.
> >
> > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
> >
> > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
>
> Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
LOL
Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1132181026367856640?s=21
> Anecdote time: In a one-woman focus group (Wor Lass) in a Bozo v Loathsome head-to-head she would rather have Bozo as PM.
>
> I appreciate that as a member of the Green Party she is not exactly representative of the Tory selectorate.
>
> I am in the 'Anyone but Boris' camp. His sense of entitlement to the job is what I can't stand.
I'm not sure he has a sense of entitlement in the way, say Brown, did. He just strikes me as an amoral chancer. And not an endearing one.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1132211392625414145
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is that your best response ???
> > > > >
> > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you could explain.
> > >
> > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
> > >
> > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
> >
> > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
>
> So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
>
> LOL
>
> Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
>
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> Interesting turnout thread ...
>
> https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1132181026367856640?s=21
Finally something with an actual r-squared analysis!
> The one thing that endears Boris to me is that he is the only British politician to hold high office who has ever done anything positive for cycling - the construction of the Superhighways. (Sadiq Khan has been an absolute flop in this area.) If he were to roll this out nationwide then I might even vote for him...
> @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > @Luckyguy1983 said:
>
> > The only Brexit that can work for the ERG and Faragists is one in which the EU is seen to be defeated. And that Brexit is undeliverable. It’s why they will never stop feeling betrayed. An unwinnable war is what Boris Johnson did more than anyone else to create. It will destroy the Tories, Labour and the UK, but not the EU.
>
> >
>
> > I don't agree. Defeat for the EU happens after we leave, and free from its stagnating influence, our economy outstrips that of the continent.
>
>
>
> You say you don't agree but you've just validated his argument. If the EU is successful, you will feel thwarted.
>
> Not at all. I regard slow economic growth as a natural result of statist, high tax, high regulation regimes. The EU will remain a key market for UK goods and services, so its success is something we should all hope for. But naturally I believe the UK will do better alone.
"naturally"
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is that your best response ???
> > > > >
> > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you could explain.
> > >
> > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
> > >
> > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
> >
> > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
>
> So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
>
> LOL
>
> Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
>
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
Why do you think there was a large fall in visitors in 2018 after a number of years of growth, despite a weak pound?
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is that your best response ???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you could explain.
> > > >
> > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
> > > >
> > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
> > >
> > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
> >
> > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> >
> > LOL
> >
> > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> >
> > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
>
> No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
That is exactly what you're saying.
You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
You should have checked the data before having your rant.
Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience.
> Is there any polling on who has heard of the various contenders, amongst the general public?
>
> I know it's not the general public that votes but it's odd to think we could in theory have a Prime Minister most people have not even heard of today.
Most people haven't heard of would apply to pretty much all the declared candidates. Except Boris. Gove probably. Hunt and Javid possibly. Leadsom is a stretch.
The general election of 5th December 2019 saw the SNP strengthen their position winning 46 of the 57 seats on offer with the LibDems on 7 and Labour 4. The Conservatives lost all their seats including Moray by 12 votes after three recounts.
The new Prime Minister Corbyn offered the SNP a Scottish independence referendum within two years in return for confidence and supply for the period until Scottish independence or for a full five year term if Scotland voted "No" again. First Minister Sturgeon agreed with the provisos the vote be held within a year, that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and a comprehensive free trade agreement was included. Corbyn agreed.
Corbyn and Sturgeon moved quickly and both the Scottish and Westminster parliaments legislated for a Scottish independence referendum vote on Saturday 28th and Sunday 29th November 2020 with the result announced the following day - St. Andrews Day.
The referendum campaign was again a bitterly contested affair and numerous incidents highlighted the divisive nature of the vote :
1. An Ayrshire man calling himself "SuperMalcolmG" attacked Ruth Davidson with a volley of turnip milkshakes. He was subsequently sentenced to community service for twelve months working with distressed former Conservative MP's. He absconded and sought political asylum in the Ecuadorian consulate in Edinburgh. He remains there to this day.
2. Thirty Scottish Liberal Democrat "NO" campaigners went missing in the Auchentennach area on Burns Night and haven't been seen since. Local laird JackW was praised for organising a county wide search and posting a substantial reward. He also sent large hampers, including fine pies, to the families of the missing.
3. First Minister Sturgeon accused Scottish Tories and rogue Royal Navy officers of deliberating ensuring she was unavailable for the last month of the campaign as inexplicably she became stranded on a Faslane based nuclear sub that went "quiet" for operational reasons during what was supposed to be a farewell visit to the departing submarines by the SNP leader. Speculation that other SNP luminaries were not unhappy about this unfortunate incident remains common currency.
................................................................................................................
Turnout reached 89.4%. Counting continued well into St. Andrews Day however it was clear by 2:00am that "YES" had won by 52-48% and it was at 4:17am that the 1745 votes from Auchentennach ensured that Scotland had voted "YES".
Mrs Sturgeon claimed victory three months later after the newly re-named sub HMS Smithson finally surfaced in Antarctica.
Scotland became independent on April 1st 2022. Was it an omen ? ....
> This article from Rachel Johnson is so Change UK. From Latin quotes to putting your foot in it by implying someone who voted for you wasted their vote...
>
> https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1132211392625414145
Is there a Johnson sibling you would want in charge of anything ?
Is that genuine or did sandbags or other embuggerance occur for Mercedes?
> > @Swindon_Addick said:
> > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left.
> > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side.
> > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume.
> > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be.
>
> I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not.
> .
LOL.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is that your best response ???
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps you could explain.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
> > > >
> > > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit withIf you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
> > >
> > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> > >
> > > LOL
> > >
> > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> > >
> > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> >
> > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
>
> That is exactly what you're saying.
>
> You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
>
> But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
>
> You should have checked the data before having your rant.
>
> Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience>
My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
Might see if my Leclerc bet is hedgeable. Doubt it, but worth a look.
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @NickPalmer said:
> > > Entertaining article, thanks David. I shocked a friend recently by saying that politics nowadays was fun. "But it's horrifying and tragic!" Well, yes, that too.
> >
> > We're seeing the exposure of our political class as incompetent charlatans - there's something deeply cathartic about their failure.
> >
> > On more local issues Stodge reported a power sharing agreement in Waverley.
> >
> > Did you get a seat at the top table ?
>
> Yes, I'm one of the 8 on the exec, responsible for operational planning, parking and civil enforcement. All very harmonious so far - the Tories are correctly noting that there's a Corbynite sharing power, eeek, but people are saying meh, let's see what they actually do.
>
> In shades of 2010 in reverse, we've discovered a huge black hole in the accounts - annual budget £10 million, prospective deficit £3.8 million. The Conservative administration appears to have believed in magic money trees, and left office still planning expenditure on vanity projects like new council offices and new robes for councillors. If we're honest there isn't that much politics in local council business, but my general aim is to prove that one can be left-wing in principle, but focused and competent.
Smells like bollocks to me.
Sounds far too perfectly written for a Labour campaign leaflet.
An epidemic in our locality, or part of a wider trend?
(I hasten to add I'm happy here, and like the place.)
> So Johnson seems to have offered Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart senior jobs in his government. One is smart and patriotic enough to say No.
Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > > > Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-uk-tourism-money-economy-visitor-numbers-deficit-travel-eu-tourists-a8929461.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perhaps you should have a word with those people who pedaled lies about xenophobia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You mean crush the saboteurs?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is that your best response ???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Try something relevant to the issue next time.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am sorry you do not understand why my response was entirely relevant.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you could explain.
> > > >
> > > > Let me point out that 'crush the saboteurs' referred to British politicians not foreign tourists.
> > > >
> > > > Now perhaps you give your thoughts on those people who have made claims about xenophobia, attacks of foreigners etc if you want to condemn people who may have deterred foreign tourists.
> > >
> > > Can I point out that Crash the Saboteurs was one of a string of headlines that sought to equate those who opposed Brexit with treachery and support for foreign governments over the UK, and was printed by a newspaper that has habitually attacked foreigners over many years, using language that is now widely deployed by political leaders - including the man who is likely to be our next PM. If you can’t see that all this creates an immensely negative impression of the UK I’m sorry.
> >
> > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> >
> > LOL
> >
> > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> >
> > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
>
>
> Why do you think there was a large fall in visitors in 2018 after a number of years of growth, despite a weak pound?
There hasn't been a large fall. A 1% fall is a small fall and only from a record high. Probably because the world economy is slowing and people are struggling same as the last time there were falls in 2009 and 2010. Dont forget many parts of the Eurozone are in major slowdowns or even recession like Italy.
Plus numbers last year were still higher than ever recorded before the referendum.
>
> Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
> > @david_herdson said:
> > > @Swindon_Addick said:
> > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left.
> > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side.
> > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume.
> > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be.
> >
> > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not.
> > .
>
> LOL.
Galloway would probably be part of the TBP government. One of the oddest things is the way that some people on the hard left have flocked to TBP.
Looking at the turnout numbers provided so far by Matt Singh, I think that UKIP maxed out the anti-EU vote in Labour Leave areas in 2014, and TBP may not even match them, but that TBP will pick up a very large contingent of new voters in Conservative Leave areas where turnout is up on 2014.
> Also it appears to be in ink, when everyone knows that MI5 insist on pencils in the polling booths.
A soft pencil can produce a pleasingly dark mark if you press firmly. Recommend a 3b.
But now you've drawn my attention to it, this X appears to have been printed. I would contend that there is enough evidence here for a police investigation. If someone is bringing their own printed ballots to the polling station, something is terribly amiss.
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > >
> > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> > > >
> > > > LOL
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> > >
> > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> >
> > That is exactly what you're saying.
> >
> > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> >
> > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
> >
> > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> >
> > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
>
> My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
> So Johnson seems to have offered Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart senior jobs in his government. One is smart and patriotic enough to say No.
Rory Stewart may make it into the final two.
I'll be looking for someone with bollocks (figuratively).
> > @Casino_Royale said:
> > > @david_herdson said:
> > > > @Swindon_Addick said:
> > > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left.
> > > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side.
> > > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume.
> > > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be.
> > >
> > > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not.
> > > .
> >
> > LOL.
>
> Galloway would probably be part of the TBP government. One of the oddest things is the way that some people on the hard left have flocked to TBP.
>
> Looking at the turnout numbers provided so far by Matt Singh, I think that UKIP maxed out the anti-EU vote in Labour Leave areas in 2014, and TBP may not even match them, but that TBP will pick up a very large contingent of new voters in Conservative Leave areas where turnout is up on 2014.
Tomorrow night will be very interesting.
https://twitter.com/MuldoonBarbara/status/1131912846433017856
> > @JonCisBack said:
> > Is there any polling on who has heard of the various contenders, amongst the general public?
> >
> > I know it's not the general public that votes but it's odd to think we could in theory have a Prime Minister most people have not even heard of today.
>
> Most people haven't heard of would apply to pretty much all the declared candidates. Except Boris. Gove probably. Hunt and Javid possibly. Leadsom is a stretch.
Leadsom would be a symptom of certifiable insanity.
Along the lines of "Mother! Oh God, mother! Blood! Blood!"
> > @Casino_Royale said:
> > > @david_herdson said:
> > > > @Swindon_Addick said:
> > > > I don't think the assumption that Corbyn would govern in the way described is plausible. Not that he wouldn't try to, but he wouldn't be allowed to by the rest of the hard left.
> > > > If we assume that he does somehow act as described, he doesn't survive the appointment of Galloway. The split in the party happens then, and the earlier it happens, the fewer MPs leave, so the new party might be a bit on the small side.
> > > > Also, Jess really doesn't like Lib Dems. She's a lot more left wing than people tend to assume.
> > > > But overall, given that this is aiming to be deliberately extreme, it's rather more plausible than I would like it to be.
> > >
> > > I originally was going to have Andrew Adonis as the PM at the end (Shadsy quoted 100/1 on that too) but in the end I couldn't do it. He's a twat and Phillips is most certainly not.
> > > .
> >
> > LOL.
>
> Galloway would probably be part of the TBP government. One of the oddest things is the way that some people on the hard left have flocked to TBP.
>
> Looking at the turnout numbers provided so far by Matt Singh, I think that UKIP maxed out the anti-EU vote in Labour Leave areas in 2014, and TBP may not even match them, but that TBP will pick up a very large contingent of new voters in Conservative Leave areas where turnout is up on 2014.
The local elections showed a swing to the Conservatives in some Northern and Midland Leave areas.
I wonder if those voters will have stuck with the Conservatives again last week rather than switch to TBP.
>
> I'll be looking for someone with bollocks (figuratively).
So that they may be applied to Brexit.
> > @dixiedean said:
> >
> > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
>
> No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
Would anyone trust him to actually deliver?
> > @williamglenn said:
> > > @dixiedean said:
> > >
> > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
> >
> > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
>
> Would anyone trust him to actually deliver?
Why not.
A Boris government would likely have such a high turnover of personnel that everything would get a job at some point.
> > @OldKingCole said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > @dixiedean said:
> > > >
> > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
> > >
> > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
> >
> > Would anyone trust him to actually deliver?
>
> Why not.
>
> A Boris government would likely have such a high turnover of personnel that everything would get a job at some point.
So like May then?
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > >
> > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> > > >
> > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> > >
> > > That is exactly what you're saying.
> > >
> > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> > >
> > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
> > >
> > > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> > >
> > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
> >
> > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
>
> Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
>
> You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
>
> You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
>
> BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
>
> And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
>
> The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
>
> As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
A rant :-D
I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
Campbell heading for Liberals?
> Perspective.
>
> https://twitter.com/MuldoonBarbara/status/1131912846433017856
I'm sure any lawyer could come up with sob stories about their clients under any Home Secretary over the past 200 years.
"Just not up to it" is all one needs to say about Theresa May, rather than accusing her of murdering people, as several people on that thread are doing.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > So Johnson seems to have offered Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart senior jobs in his government. One is smart and patriotic enough to say No.
>
> Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
"if I win, you will get this"
really does not.
> > @dixiedean said:
> >
> > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
>
> No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
its not that, either.
christ.
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> > > >
> > > > That is exactly what you're saying.
> > > >
> > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> > > >
> > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
> > > >
> > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> > > >
> > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
> > >
> > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
> >
> > Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
> >
> > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
> >
> > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
> >
> > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
> >
> > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
> >
> > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
> >
> > As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
>
> A rant :-D
>
> I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
>
>
" Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? "
Yes, a rant.
Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ?
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @OldKingCole said:
> > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > > @dixiedean said:
> > > > >
> > > > > Forgive me. But handing out jobs in government smacks of entitlement to me.
> > > >
> > > > No, it's a sign of insecurity. He thinks he needs to buy people off to win their support.
> > >
> > > Would anyone trust him to actually deliver?
> >
> > Why not.
> >
> > A Boris government would likely have such a high turnover of personnel that everything would get a job at some point.
>
> So like May then?
Indeed.
And whatever government follows Boris.
When you know fine well that nobody can become First Minister without a vote *in Holyrood* (because you took part in the process as a candidate yourself and got outvoted 4:1), but you’re so desperate to score political points that you’ll happily talk rubbish
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1131868442716495872
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> > > >
> > > > That is exactly what you're saying.
> > > >
> > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> > > >
> > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had the highest level of foreign visitors to the UK and the highest level of expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK.
> > > >
> > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> > > >
> > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
> > >
> > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
> >
> > Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
> >
> > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
> >
> > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
> >
> > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
> >
> > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
> >
> > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
> >
> > As they are in this situation as the two years with the highest number of foreign visitors to the UK and highest expenditure by foreign visitors in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
>
> A rant :-D
>
> I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
>
>
The numbers "fell" to higher than they ever were pre-referendum. Ouch!
>
> You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania.
If Steve Baker made more of his military career he might be in with a shout.
> The Tory party is in a sad state if Rory Stewart makes the final two.
>
> You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania.
Wasn't that Eric Newby ?
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2019/05/monaco-pre-qualifying-2019.html
https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/1132191392049115136
> > @Dura_Ace said:
> > The Tory party is in a sad state if Rory Stewart makes the final two.
> >
> > You need to look past the Scottish FA Cup ears to the fact that he once went on a walking holiday in Nuristan to grok the full extent of Rorymania.
>
> Wasn't that Eric Newby ?
Though if travel writing is an attribute then SeanT must be a contender.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you're saying that before someone chooses a holiday destination they read foreign newspapers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > LOL
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps you'd like to explain why the two years with the highest numbers of overseas visitors and the highest expenditure by foreign visitors were 2017 and 2018.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/articles/traveltrends/2018#both-uk-trips-abroad-and-visits-to-the-uk-have-decreased-in-2018
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I’m not saying that. I am sorry you don’t understand.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is exactly what you're saying.
> > > > >
> > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> > > > >
> > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had visitors in the UK.
> > > > >
> > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
> > > >
> > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
> > >
> > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
> > >
> > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
> > >
> > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
> > >
> > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
> > >
> > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
> > >
> > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
> > >
> > > As they are in in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
> >
> > A rant :-D
> >
> > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
> >
> >
>
> " Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? "
>
> Yes, a rant.
>
> Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ?
You clearly don’t have the ability to differentiate between a rant and an observation. And why would people spending money in the UK disappoint me? I’d like them to spend more, not less. That’s why it’s such a shame that last year we saw a significant dip after so many years of growth.
Labour are so rattled.
> https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132234588254814208
>
> Campbell heading for Liberals?
Brexit chaos really is a dream for Corbyn. Not only is Labour regularly recording polling leads big enough for an outright majority for the first time in years, but now the centrists are purging themselves
> > @rottenborough said:
> > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132234588254814208
> >
> > Campbell heading for Liberals?
>
> Brexit chaos really is a dream for Corbyn. Not only is Labour regularly recording polling leads big enough for an outright majority for the first time in years, but now the centrists are purging themselves
Are they, not only is Labour well short of a majority without the SNP in most polls but loss of Remainer centrists to the Liberals helps the Tories under FPTP if they regain Brexit Party voters
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had visitors in the UK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
> > > > >
> > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
> > > >
> > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
> > > >
> > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
> > > >
> > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
> > > >
> > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
> > > >
> > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
> > > >
> > > > As they are in in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
> > >
> > > A rant :-D
> > >
> > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > " Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? "
> >
> > Yes, a rant.
> >
> > Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ?
>
> You clearly don’t have the ability to differentiate between a rant and an observation. And why would people spending money in the UK disappoint me? I’d like them to spend more, not less. That’s why it’s such a shame that last year we saw a significant dip after so many years of growth.
A 'significant dip' to the second highest on record.
The record year being the year of 'crush the saboteurs' which you claimed created 'an immensely negative impression of the UK'.
Check the data next time - you'll find it at this website:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/
> Turnout looks to be down where UKIP did best in 2014.
>
> https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/1132191392049115136
Brexit supporters are not only stupid but lazy. Good news.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > @another_richard said:
> > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > @SouthamObserver said:
> > > > > > > @another_richard said:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is exactly what you're saying.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You said 'crush the saboteurs' created an immensely negative impression of the UK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But the ONS shows that 2017 had visitors in the UK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You should have checked the data before having your rant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now stop digging yourself a deeper hole and learn from the experience
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My experience is that you do not understand the point I am making - I am sorry that is the case.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me guess what point you were trying to make.
> > > > >
> > > > > You read a headline which fitted in with your views and prejudices ie that Brexit is damaging the image of the UK in foreign countries.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then had a rant that this was leading to a fall in foreign tourists and their spending.
> > > > >
> > > > > BUT YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE DATA
> > > > >
> > > > > And you didn't do that because its always much easier to assume your own views and prejudices are right than to do a few minutes work finding things out.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with that is sometimes the facts are different to what you assume they are.
> > > > >
> > > > > As they are in in the UK were 2017 and 2018.
> > > >
> > > > A rant :-D
> > > >
> > > > I said something you did not like. The numbers fell in 2018. Despite the pound’s weakness.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > " Turns out that if you spend all your time telling foreigners you don’t like them it puts quite a few off from spending their time and money with you. Whoever would have thought it? "
> > >
> > > Yes, a rant.
> > >
> > > Were you disappointed to be informed that the two highest years for foreign visitors to the UK and highest levels of spending by foreign visitors to the UK were 2017 and 2018 ?
> >
> > You clearly don’tso many years of growth.
>
> A 'significant dip' to the second highest on record.
>
> The record year being the year of 'crush the saboteurs' which you claimed created 'an immensely negative impression of the UK'.
>
> Check the data next time - you'll find it at this website:
>
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/
If a number rises on a continuous basis over a series of years and then falls by 3% that is a significant dip. A fall of 7% is even more significant. I am sorry you do not understand this. Just as I am sorry you do not understand my point about newspaper headlines and political rhetoric..