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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson looks certainty as YouGov CON members’ poll has him le

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  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,404

    This from Johnson is just embarrassing. And on so many levels. Such self-centredness, totally inarticulate, entirely incapable of thinking on his feet. Imagine him trying to negotiate anything, let alone a new deal with the EU!!

    Both incapable of thinking on his feet, and incapable of not ultimately saying the first thing that pops into his head. Which is a massive problem for him, as I don't get the impression that what he believes (to the extent that he really believes in anything) actually remotely align to the political positions that he finds himself adopting for his self-advancement. So every time he opens his mouth he's in danger of undermining himself.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,051
    edited July 6
    Scott_P said:

    JackW said:

    BBC 5Live advising that a "Today" programme investigation on R4 this morning will report that Conservative party members are receiving two ballots for the PM beauty show contest.

    Who's running this sh*t show? .... UKIP entryists, Tower Hamlets Labour party or the North Korean Elections Unit?

    WE WILL DELIVER BREXIT !!!!

    OK, let's start with ballot papers...

    Ummmm.
    If all Hunt backers get 2 votes he might not get totally humiliated and only lose by a bit, so perhaps its intentional?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,387
    Thing about Brexit isn't whether it's a conservative idea. Thing is, it's a failure in terms of what it sets out to achieve. The reaction to that failure is deeply unconservative. Brexit is Suez one hundred times over.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 7,306
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    There is room for us all in the party

    I thought you said you weren't in the party?
    I’m not a member.

    But we pledged our support for the Tories a few years ago and that pledge still binds us.
    So, it's an emotional thing? Bit like a cult?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,051

    nichomar said:

    This from Johnson is just embarrassing. And on so many levels. Such self-centredness, totally inarticulate, entirely incapable of thinking on his feet. Imagine him trying to negotiate anything, let alone a new deal with the EU!!

    That is some sacrifice, not least for his potential readers.

    Having read significant segments of Johnson's challenging(*) book on Churchill I got the distinct impression that Churchill's wartime statesmanship, was somehow, through a quirk of time-travelling telepathy, a channelling of Johnson's own genius. I couldn't quite work out whether Johnson was in awe of Churchill, or infact Churchill would have been in awe of Johnson had the timings of the two great men aligned.

    As Johnson has now set his sights on Shakespeare does this mean we should credit Johnson with the more impressive works of the bard?

    It would be helpful if one of Johnson's admirers could reassure the doubters with a catalogue of genuine achievements why this seemingly flawed individual will become our greatest ever Prime Minister. I have done my own cost-benefit analysis and the costs far outweigh the benefits, to the point where the benefits column remains empty- I can't even add the go to reassurance that at least he would be better than Corbyn.

    (*) - tedious.
    I’m sure HY will provide you with a list given he has been asked many times as to why Johnson would be a good PM.
    I would like a more robust analysis than 'because he is the only Conservative politian who can beat Corbyn'.
    One reason given is he wont actually do what he says he will and will ignore those most loudly backing him once he wins a GE.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 20,743
    edited July 6
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    JackW said:

    BBC 5Live advising that a "Today" programme investigation on R4 this morning will report that Conservative party members are receiving two ballots for the PM beauty show contest.

    Who's running this sh*t show? .... UKIP entryists, Tower Hamlets Labour party or the North Korean Elections Unit?

    WE WILL DELIVER BREXIT !!!!

    OK, let's start with ballot papers...

    Ummmm.
    If all Hunt backers get 2 votes he might not get totally humiliated and only lose by a bit, so perhaps its intentional?
    According to R4, whilst some of it is poor records or duplication when people move house or marry/divorce, a lot of it is people actively joining two or more different associations to be able to participate in their internal elections and/or get invites to social events. It's suggested a blind eye is turned not least because it inflates the overall membership total.

    Which sounds dodgy to me - I don't think you can be a member of two different associations at the same time in other parties (although Labour did used to have lots of multiple voting via its affiliated orgs)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 30,179
    I think I said the day before the yesterday the 20/1 with Ladbrokes for him to get over 80% looked like value.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 50,080
    I suspect this ballot is going to end up in court
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,051
    Scott_P said:

    I suspect this ballot is going to end up in court

    What a waste of time that would be. Which probably means it will happen. Any chance that would mean May has to stick around a little while longer?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 31,270
    kle4 said:

    This from Johnson is just embarrassing. And on so many levels. Such self-centredness, totally inarticulate, entirely incapable of thinking on his feet. Imagine him trying to negotiate anything, let alone a new deal with the EU!!

    Leaving aside the actual comments, he is really not that good a communicator for someone who is meant to be a good communicator.

    Reminds me a bit of Corbyn despite very different styles, as he us a great communicator who usually has supporters and spokespersons clarifying what he communicated.

    There are so many parallels with Corbyn, but that is not surprising really. Like the Labour leader, Johnson will owe his position to zealots, racists and loons who are entirely unrepresentative of the majority of the population.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,051

    Let's lay off HYUFD. The great things about PB over the past 15.5 years is that it has been a place where people of all political persuasions on all issues have been able to feel welcome and participate. He might be a minority voice on the site but it is a reminder as to why so many in the Conservative Party are backing someone like Boris as leader.

    By your word so shall it be, but a clarifying question - that surely does not preclude responding with incredulity to the worshipping of Boris? Poor old Jezziah has to put up with that in relation to, well, the Jezziah
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 15,116

    Cyclefree said:

    Wait and see how much control you will be taking back in reality.

    Ripping up overnight the legal, regulatory and commercial basis on which the country has been run for the last 46 years is not a conservative act.

    So we have been run from abroad for 46 years.

    There you go again, putting words into my mouth. We have been run by governments we have elected.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,986
    Mr. kle4, quite.

    He's a rambling buffoon who throws in the odd bit of Latin. That people who know he's selling bullshit and buying it anyway is ridiculous.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,986
    edited July 6
    If this does go to court there may be money to be made on the May exit date market.

    Edited extra bit: just laid a tiny sum on May's exit date on Betfair (1.01 for the July-September section).
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 342
    Roger said:

    The cheers reverberating throughout the country when Portillo went will be nothing compared to those that will be heard when Patel and IDS go. For those who are ambivalent about Johnson just need to listen to those who he has chosen as his spokespeople.

    And you think in his cabinet? Is IDS his deputy PM? And Patel, where’s our money going on her top job?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549

    Mr. Doethur, still daft his corpse was stolen by Leicester and used in a dark magic ritual to grant them the premiership title, but there we are.

    Not stolen! His body belongs in Greyfriars, Leicester, but his soul to King Power.

    Even Shakespeare has bent to celebrate:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/03/leicester-city-kings-of-england-richard-iii
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,986
    Dr. Foxy, thou corpse-thief!
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,496



    Ah, the old 'don't believe in anything' garbage. That normally means, as in this case, 'doesn't believe in my irrational and extreme view'.

    But enjoy yourself while you can. It's hilarious to watch you putting your naïve trust in Boris, of all people - he's actually somewhat to the left of Cameron and of me, inasmuch as he has any political position.

    I know Boris is a social liberal.

    But for now, national independence is the goal and he is best placed to deliver. Once completed, we can move onto our next projects. My post-Brexit priorities are grammar schools, the death penalty, foreign aid and strict immigration controls like Australia.

    I look forward to pushing the party in that direction.
    Good to hear that foreign aid is one of your priorities.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 26,253
    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done,

    I have become quite used to Hyufd and UKIP infiltrators in attacking my membership and to tell me I am not a real conservatives and should leave to allow the party to be taken over by their Farage tribute group.

    I have news for them. I am not leaving and will continue to seek compromise and sensible solutions that are 100% pro business, pro the Union, and have a social conscience
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 342

    Mr. kle4, quite.

    He's a rambling buffoon who throws in the odd bit of Latin. That people who know he's selling bullshit and buying it anyway is ridiculous.

    You guys have no idea how he will actually govern, how successful he might be. Look at Trumps approval ratings now in his own party. Boris got more than half the MPs and the Tory press love him.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549

    I think I said the day before the yesterday the 20/1 with Ladbrokes for him to get over 80% looked like value.

    I got 22% with an odds boost at the price of a pint, but 65% is more likely.

    Throwing rotten tomatoes from the cheap seats as Boris waffles and blusters may well be entertaining. The pitchforks and torches will follow fairly quickly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549

    Dr. Foxy, thou corpse-thief!

    Possession is 9/10 of the law...
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,085

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done,

    I have become quite used to Hyufd and UKIP infiltrators in attacking my membership and to tell me I am not a real conservatives and should leave to allow the party to be taken over by their Farage tribute group.

    I have news for them. I am not leaving and will continue to seek compromise and sensible solutions that are 100% pro business, pro the Union, and have a social conscience

    If you were 100% pro-business, I’d suggest that you should never have voted to leave and put SiLs employment at risk.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 342
    Zephyr said:

    Mr. kle4, quite.

    He's a rambling buffoon who throws in the odd bit of Latin. That people who know he's selling bullshit and buying it anyway is ridiculous.

    You guys have no idea how he will actually govern, how successful he might be. Look at Trumps approval ratings now in his own party. Boris got more than half the MPs and the Tory press love him.
    You are also underestimating how the politics and skills of Crosby and Bannon perfectly match a plurality of voters in Brexit Britain
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    edited July 6

    Let's lay off HYUFD. The great things about PB over the past 15.5 years is that it has been a place where people of all political persuasions on all issues have been able to feel welcome and participate. He might be a minority voice on the site but it is a reminder as to why so many in the Conservative Party are backing someone like Boris as leader.

    I am a fan of @HYUFD. But his pronouncements can and should be challenged. I think it’s all in the manner. Plus he seeks political office and funnily enough he reminds me of Hazel Blears in his single mindedness. Perhaps he thinks this is how politicians are.

    Being challenged here on PB is good training for him. If he succeeds in his aim to be elected he will face much worse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 26,253
    matt said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done,

    I have become quite used to Hyufd and UKIP infiltrators in attacking my membership and to tell me I am not a real conservatives and should leave to allow the party to be taken over by their Farage tribute group.

    I have news for them. I am not leaving and will continue to seek compromise and sensible solutions that are 100% pro business, pro the Union, and have a social conscience

    If you were 100% pro-business, I’d suggest that you should never have voted to leave and put SiLs employment at risk.
    I did not vote to leave.

    I voted remain but accept the referendum result. TM deal was fine by me, no deal is not
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 8,678
    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119
    edited July 6
    Foxy said:

    Mr. Doethur, still daft his corpse was stolen by Leicester and used in a dark magic ritual to grant them the premiership title, but there we are.

    Not stolen! His body belongs in Greyfriars, Leicester, but his soul to King Power.

    Even Shakespeare has bent to celebrate:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/03/leicester-city-kings-of-england-richard-iii
    ITYS :smiley:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,986
    Mr. Zephyr, leaders can surprise on the upside.

    However, if Boris' time as Foreign Secretary is to be any guide I suspect he'll be the spiritual successor to the Angeli.

    I'd like to be wrong, of course. But I think he's a disreputable incompetent.

    Dr. Foxy, the dubious ways of Leicester have been noted, and added to the name of Lancashire in the long memories of Yorkshire. Prepare thyself for 500 years of not necessarily serious grudge-holding!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 2,434

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    And who is this 'right team'? IDS? Patel? Truss?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,051
    Zephyr said:

    Mr. kle4, quite.

    He's a rambling buffoon who throws in the odd bit of Latin. That people who know he's selling bullshit and buying it anyway is ridiculous.

    You guys have no idea how he will actually govern, how successful he might be. Look at Trumps approval ratings now in his own party. Boris got more than half the MPs and the Tory press love him.
    Of course theres a chance he will govern well. I hope he does exceed my expectations. But he certainly doesnt communicate clearly for a great communicator.

    And not knowing how he will actually govern and successful he might be is an argument to support anyone, Corbyn included. More so in his case as unlike Boris he has no office holding bar opposition to judge his likely success .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Mr. Doethur, still daft his corpse was stolen by Leicester and used in a dark magic ritual to grant them the premiership title, but there we are.

    Not stolen! His body belongs in Greyfriars, Leicester, but his soul to King Power.

    Even Shakespeare has bent to celebrate:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/03/leicester-city-kings-of-england-richard-iii
    ITYS :smiley:
    I love the introduction:

    "Now is the winter of our discontent
    Made glorious summer by this championship.
    Although, in truth, a York man in my heart
    (Though some of course dispute I have that valve)
    The Minstermen this term have shown such poor defence
    They are condemnéd to the Conference."

    Though after many years a Yorkshire team is finally back in the Premier League, for a year anyway :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 15,116

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    The right team. Like IDS and Priti Patel, you mean?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,677
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    7.1 magnitude earthquake in SoCal.

    Really felt that one.

    Nobody hurt. Power still on. And Internet still working. Phew.

    Let's hope to god that these two recent quakes are not the precursors to the next 1906 event. That was a 7.9 with a MMI at the top end of the scale of XI :

    "Few, if any, (masonry) structures remain standing. Bridges destroyed. Broad fissures in ground. Underground pipe lines completely out of service. Earth slumps and land slips in soft ground. Rails bent greatly."
    These are rolling quakes not shakers. My wife is very blasé about it.
    Many moons ago I was chatting with a scientist "quack nut" (his words) who described that broad view as "Bill Haley Syndrome" - Shake Rattle and Roll - the idea that rollers wouldn't be believed to be upcoming major quakes until the death rattle struck the victims !!
    Thank you Jack

    You know my wife and daughter in LA at the moment?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,051
    edited July 6

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    One hopes so. It is true the safe pair did not work last time so its unsurprising members want to gamble, and they have a greater need to gamble too.

    But that doesnt mean disquiet as his performances and reliance on his record from 7 years ago in a very different role and environment as proof if his awesomeness, not least when some of his ardent backers will be disappointed by what other ardent backers say he will do, is not reasonable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549

    Mr. Zephyr, leaders can surprise on the upside.

    However, if Boris' time as Foreign Secretary is to be any guide I suspect he'll be the spiritual successor to the Angeli.

    I'd like to be wrong, of course. But I think he's a disreputable incompetent.

    Dr. Foxy, the dubious ways of Leicester have been noted, and added to the name of Lancashire in the long memories of Yorkshire. Prepare thyself for 500 years of not necessarily serious grudge-holding!

    Like many other Lestah folk, I am a migrant here, my birthplace was Lancashire.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549
    Cyclefree said:


    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    The right team. Like IDS and Priti Patel, you mean?
    Grayling, Williamson and Truss too.

    It's a disgrace...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,560

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 30,516
    Cancel the election. It turns out Theresa May already delivered Brexit.

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,894

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    I agree , also he would easily beat Corbyn.
    So everyone should be pleased.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 8,678

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    And who is this 'right team'? IDS? Patel? Truss?
    Do we know that? I'm not just talking about his ministerial team, his political team are as important in many ways.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,986
    Dr. Foxy, thou art a double-villain, twice the fiend as was suspected!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119
    edited July 6

    Dr. Foxy, thou art a double-villain, twice the fiend as was suspected!

    Is he rudely formed and wanting true majesty?

    Edit - now you can have yar go.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 1,968

    Let's lay off HYUFD. The great things about PB over the past 15.5 years is that it has been a place where people of all political persuasions on all issues have been able to feel welcome and participate. He might be a minority voice on the site but it is a reminder as to why so many in the Conservative Party are backing someone like Boris as leader.

    Well said Mike. Too many comments on this site routinely throw in a gratuitous casual insult while making a wider point and those directed at HYUFD are a prime example.

    This site has already to a degree turned into an echo chamber of Conservative voting Remainers and will do so even further if others are prompted to disengage.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982

    My ballot came yesterday. Voted Boris.

    Joined the Tory Party, leavin Ukip, for this exact moment.

    Hope you Cameroons are delighted with your 24% x

    If Johnson fails on Brexit, will you admit that it’s Brexit that is the problem, not the leader?
    There is no "failing" on Brexit. Either they honour their word, or do not.

    If Boris doesn't do, then the Tory Party itself will have to go.
    And if Nigel Farage became PM and didn’t honour his word?
    You seem to be suggesting it is some impossibility. It really isn't. We're leaving a treaty and resuming a status we've had for 1,000 years. Like Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Telling us we can't have it when we can see it in front of us won't wash.
    A status we’ve had for 1,000 years? What would that be, because it certainly isn’t the UK.
    The guy is obviously a fruitcake and not a very bright on either. Methinks just your average xenophobic Little Englander with little knowledge of history.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,418
    edited July 6
    Nigelb said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
    I rather suspect that the person manning for phone has been given a script with answers to these kind of questions e.g. the f business gaffe. Don't believe a word of it.

    It is also worth noting the resilience of the 'F business' comment. Imagine a similar level gaffe in middle of a highly contested GE. Imagine the off the cuff joke comment is 'fuck the poor'.

    Boris is seen as the best solution to stopping Jezza. But will Boris be allowed out during the five week GE campaign? I rather suspect not.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 1,748
    Nigelb said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
    It is hard to know which part of the party is being played for fools, most likely it is both sides. Boris probably doesnt even know or care himself, he will just let events dictate what is best for Boris as he always does. No doubt the phone call would have gone very differently if Big_G had expressed opposite concerns that we were not Brexity enough with confirmation we will leave on Oct 31 with or without a deal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119

    Cancel the election. It turns out Theresa May already delivered Brexit.

    If that were true, it would be quite funny, and it would be rather typical of the EU to not realise what they'd written. They're almost as bad as Lloyd Russell-Moyle.

    But I rather suspect that it is not true.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    There is room for us all in the party

    I thought you said you weren't in the party?
    I’m not a member.

    But we pledged our support for the Tories a few years ago and that pledge still binds us.
    Yes , cannot afford to shoot the golden goose that keeps you in riches.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 12,782
    Nigelb said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
    It is remarkable that Boris has cornered both the extreme leave and remain ends, each convinced that what he tells the other wing are just political promises to garner votes and not to be taken seriously.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    PClipp said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories were a different party in 2001 compared to now. For starters I was a member back then! In 2001, the Tories had been in opposition for 4 years and were gradually building up foot soldiers again from the depletion between 1992- 1997. I do think the Tories have been infiltrated as if polls are to be believed on maintaining the UK or Brexit. Brexit wins by a large margin, the UK union 20 years ago would have been a pivotal issue where as now the people who are members only care about Europe.
    The way the party has evolved is unsustainable and will lead to its utter marginalisation. It fails to appeal to the broad coalition it once attracted and single issue politics is the road to ruin for a party that contests all areas of the UK.

    Labour is no longer a broad church. The Tory Party is no longer a broad church.
    Here begins the era of the Lib Dems?
    Not really, since they don't want to be a broad church either.
    I thought we did.... At least broad enough to take power again, after a hundred years of illiberal and incompetent governments.
    What a laugh, a bunch of losers more like.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 2,434
    malcolmg said:

    My ballot came yesterday. Voted Boris.

    Joined the Tory Party, leavin Ukip, for this exact moment.

    Hope you Cameroons are delighted with your 24% x

    If Johnson fails on Brexit, will you admit that it’s Brexit that is the problem, not the leader?
    There is no "failing" on Brexit. Either they honour their word, or do not.

    If Boris doesn't do, then the Tory Party itself will have to go.
    And if Nigel Farage became PM and didn’t honour his word?
    You seem to be suggesting it is some impossibility. It really isn't. We're leaving a treaty and resuming a status we've had for 1,000 years. Like Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Telling us we can't have it when we can see it in front of us won't wash.
    A status we’ve had for 1,000 years? What would that be, because it certainly isn’t the UK.
    The guy is obviously a fruitcake and not a very bright on either. Methinks just your average xenophobic Little Englander with little knowledge of history.
    Yes, never mind the UK. It doesn't really make sense to talk about England before 1485 (a date that appears to have cropped up more than once this morning).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 26,253

    Nigelb said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
    It is hard to know which part of the party is being played for fools, most likely it is both sides. Boris probably doesnt even know or care himself, he will just let events dictate what is best for Boris as he always does. No doubt the phone call would have gone very differently if Big_G had expressed opposite concerns that we were not Brexity enough with confirmation we will leave on Oct 31 with or without a deal.
    Sadly that is more than likely
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549

    Nigelb said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
    I rather suspect that the person manning for phone has been given a script with answers to these kind of questions e.g. the f business gaffe. Don't believe a word of it.

    It is also worth noting the resilience of the 'F business' comment. Imagine a similar level gaffe in middle of a highly contest GE. Imagine the off the cuff joke comment is 'fuck the poor'.

    Boris is seen as the best solution to stopping Jezza. But will Boris be allowed out during the five week GE campaign? I rather suspect not.
    Jezza is a lame duck, not too hard to beat.

    But can Boris increase Tory seats? methinks not. Indeed I expect both Labour and Tories to lose seats in the Autumn election. The question is who will lose more.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,418

    Let's lay off HYUFD. The great things about PB over the past 15.5 years is that it has been a place where people of all political persuasions on all issues have been able to feel welcome and participate. He might be a minority voice on the site but it is a reminder as to why so many in the Conservative Party are backing someone like Boris as leader.

    Well said Mike. Too many comments on this site routinely throw in a gratuitous casual insult while making a wider point and those directed at HYUFD are a prime example.

    This site has already to a degree turned into an echo chamber of Conservative voting Remainers and will do so even further if others are prompted to disengage.
    I like to read all shades of opinion on here. That is one of the attractions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119
    edited July 6

    malcolmg said:

    My ballot came yesterday. Voted Boris.

    Joined the Tory Party, leavin Ukip, for this exact moment.

    Hope you Cameroons are delighted with your 24% x

    If Johnson fails on Brexit, will you admit that it’s Brexit that is the problem, not the leader?
    There is no "failing" on Brexit. Either they honour their word, or do not.

    If Boris doesn't do, then the Tory Party itself will have to go.
    And if Nigel Farage became PM and didn’t honour his word?
    You seem to be suggesting it is some impossibility. It really isn't. We're leaving a treaty and resuming a status we've had for 1,000 years. Like Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Telling us we can't have it when we can see it in front of us won't wash.
    A status we’ve had for 1,000 years? What would that be, because it certainly isn’t the UK.
    The guy is obviously a fruitcake and not a very bright on either. Methinks just your average xenophobic Little Englander with little knowledge of history.
    Yes, never mind the UK. It doesn't really make sense to talk about England before 1485 (a date that appears to have cropped up more than once this morning).
    What has 1485 got to do with England?

    If you mean, that was the foundation of England as a unitary state, then I fear that you underestimate the reign of Aethelstan from 924-939.

    If you mean the date England absorbed Wales, I fear you're still wrong as the relevant dates might be given as 1277, 1284, or 1536 with the abolition of the Principalities of North and West Wales and the Marcher Lordships.

    If you mean, the moment a Welshman (for a given value of 'Welshman') became King of England, I can't fault you.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    HYUFD said:

    Jeremy Hunt makes a last ditch bid to diehard Tory Unionists by trying a Mariano Rajoy tribute act and suggesting he would block indyref2 even if the SNP won a majority at the next Holyrood elections.

    Boris however did not explicitly rule out indyref2, although he said he was 'a passionate Unionist' and believed the 2014 referendum was a 'once in a generation' vote

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/search/?search=SNP&topic_id=8742

    He really is a useless piece of sh**.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 20,743

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    Leaving aside the well-documented downside of his time as Mayor, I'd suggest the skillset of that job is further away from PM than is that of Foreign Secretary.

    In the GLA he brought in a lot of high paid people who were in effect both political and civil servants who did all the bits of the job that didn't interest him (which was most of it).

    Much harder to hide behind others like that when you are PM. And harder to make political officer appointments.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119

    Nigelb said:

    As I confirmed yesterday my wife and I came to the decision we could not vote for either candidate and returned our ballots plainly marked 'neither'

    I then received a telephone call from the 'Boris Team' seeking my vote. I politely told him I will not vote for either; Hunt because of his ill judged comments on hunting and Boris for attacking business and telling Airbus to FO, the company that my son in law works for in a senior position. I also said that I could not agree under any circumstances with a no deal position and the very anti business rhetoric.

    He said that no deal is only to influence the negotiations but that Boris will get a deal and unite the nation. He said that Boris will be a very pro business and strongly pro the Union which he will fight tooth and claw to strengthen and preserve

    I suggested he could do some good if he went to the North East fishing communities and confirm his attitude to the CFP and also a trip to Airbus factory here in North Wales would not be amiss.

    From the conversation I think Boris is taking Hyufd and Viceroy for fools to gain office and will swivel to TM deal with superficial changes agreed with the EU to get the deal done...

    It’s possible - though just as possible that it’s your side of the party being taken for fools.

    What seems clear is that the only new members the Tories are likely to attract any time soon will be of the Viceroy persuasion, and that will have consequences for the future of the party.

    I have great sympathy for your wishes for the party, but I am not in the least optimistic.
    It is hard to know which part of the party is being played for fools, most likely it is both sides. Boris probably doesnt even know or care himself, he will just let events dictate what is best for Boris as he always does. No doubt the phone call would have gone very differently if Big_G had expressed opposite concerns that we were not Brexity enough with confirmation we will leave on Oct 31 with or without a deal.
    That assumes Boris is playing. Maybe we should assume he hasn't a clue and is just cocking up massively everywhere?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 23,881

    Cancel the election. It turns out Theresa May already delivered Brexit.

    That's absurd. The second extension supersedes the first conditional one.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,630
    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    7.1 magnitude earthquake in SoCal.

    Really felt that one.

    Nobody hurt. Power still on. And Internet still working. Phew.

    Let's hope to god that these two recent quakes are not the precursors to the next 1906 event. That was a 7.9 with a MMI at the top end of the scale of XI :

    "Few, if any, (masonry) structures remain standing. Bridges destroyed. Broad fissures in ground. Underground pipe lines completely out of service. Earth slumps and land slips in soft ground. Rails bent greatly."
    These are rolling quakes not shakers. My wife is very blasé about it.
    Many moons ago I was chatting with a scientist "quack nut" (his words) who described that broad view as "Bill Haley Syndrome" - Shake Rattle and Roll - the idea that rollers wouldn't be believed to be upcoming major quakes until the death rattle struck the victims !!
    Thank you Jack

    You know my wife and daughter in LA at the moment?
    Yes I am aware they are on the "watch list" having entered the USA on business as part-time leap year gas lamp-light exporters.

    I'm glad they're ahead of the game when the Trump's great BREXIT deal with the UK is ratified with Prime Minister Farage early next year !!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 2,434
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    My ballot came yesterday. Voted Boris.

    Joined the Tory Party, leavin Ukip, for this exact moment.

    Hope you Cameroons are delighted with your 24% x

    If Johnson fails on Brexit, will you admit that it’s Brexit that is the problem, not the leader?
    There is no "failing" on Brexit. Either they honour their word, or do not.

    If Boris doesn't do, then the Tory Party itself will have to go.
    And if Nigel Farage became PM and didn’t honour his word?
    You seem to be suggesting it is some impossibility. It really isn't. We're leaving a treaty and resuming a status we've had for 1,000 years. Like Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Telling us we can't have it when we can see it in front of us won't wash.
    A status we’ve had for 1,000 years? What would that be, because it certainly isn’t the UK.
    The guy is obviously a fruitcake and not a very bright on either. Methinks just your average xenophobic Little Englander with little knowledge of history.
    Yes, never mind the UK. It doesn't really make sense to talk about England before 1485 (a date that appears to have cropped up more than once this morning).
    What has 1485 got to do with England?

    If you mean, that was the foundation of England as a unitary state, then I fear that you underestimate the reign of Aethelstan from 924-939.

    If you mean the date England absorbed Wales, I fear you're still wrong as the relevant dates might be given as 1277, 1284, or 1536 with the abolition of the Principalities of North and West Wales and the Marcher Lordships.

    If you mean, the moment a Welshman (for a given value of 'Welshman') became King of England, I can't fault you.
    As I'm sure you know I mean the coming of the Tudor dynasty, and the establishment of a centralised army and bureaucracy able to raise taxes from the whole kingdom. Didn't of course happen in one go, but the coming to power of the Earl of Richmond was the key moment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119
    edited July 6

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    My ballot came yesterday. Voted Boris.

    Joined the Tory Party, leavin Ukip, for this exact moment.

    Hope you Cameroons are delighted with your 24% x

    If Johnson fails on Brexit, will you admit that it’s Brexit that is the problem, not the leader?
    There is no "failing" on Brexit. Either they honour their word, or do not.

    If Boris doesn't do, then the Tory Party itself will have to go.
    And if Nigel Farage became PM and didn’t honour his word?
    You seem to be suggesting it is some impossibility. It really isn't. We're leaving a treaty and resuming a status we've had for 1,000 years. Like Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Telling us we can't have it when we can see it in front of us won't wash.
    A status we’ve had for 1,000 years? What would that be, because it certainly isn’t the UK.
    The guy is obviously a fruitcake and not a very bright on either. Methinks just your average xenophobic Little Englander with little knowledge of history.
    Yes, never mind the UK. It doesn't really make sense to talk about England before 1485 (a date that appears to have cropped up more than once this morning).
    What has 1485 got to do with England?

    If you mean, that was the foundation of England as a unitary state, then I fear that you underestimate the reign of Aethelstan from 924-939.

    If you mean the date England absorbed Wales, I fear you're still wrong as the relevant dates might be given as 1277, 1284, or 1536 with the abolition of the Principalities of North and West Wales and the Marcher Lordships.

    If you mean, the moment a Welshman (for a given value of 'Welshman') became King of England, I can't fault you.
    As I'm sure you know I mean the coming of the Tudor dynasty, and the establishment of a centralised army and bureaucracy able to raise taxes from the whole kingdom. Didn't of course happen in one go, but the coming to power of the Earl of Richmond was the key moment.
    Not really. It made it possible, but it wasn't the key moment. You might say that was the financial reform of Edward IV. But more pertinently it was the work of Thomas Cromwell.

    Edit - and Henry VII would not have thanked you for referring to a 'Tudor dynasty' (see the work of S. B. Chrimes).
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,630
    I must away .... Mrs JackW is taking me for retail therapy. Hhmmmm .....

    There's a cunning plan afoot ..... Oh dear !!

    Play nicely ..... :smiley:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:
    That's business in a nutshell. They tried to gouge the Govt. on price, because it would be too embarassing to have blue passports made by....

    They were told where to get off.
    Taken back control and awarded the contract to the EU
    Meh, more money for the government to spend on the NHS. What's not to like?
    170 fewer tax / NI receipts. 170 more JSA claims.
    These boys don't understand that accepting a cheap foreign offer and sending local jobs abroad does not save money , thicker than mince.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 50,080
    I am not sure it matters as I don't think anyone believes him, but the logic of this is that BoZo would sacrifice Brexit to save the Union



    I wonder how many of the Little Englanders who already voted for him are signed up to that...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119
    Nude Fred.

    Er, new thread.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 50,080
    “Aiieeeeoooaaah . . . ” warbles Ann, like she always does for a while before she’s about to speak, but before she can actually say anything the music starts and Nigel hisses that we should all turn our backs. So we do. Although after a while I tug on his sleeve.

    “But Nigel,” I say, “I can still hear it.”

    “Shut up,” says Nigel.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/my-week-a-brexit-party-mep-9gm9z6w9r
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 23,881
    malcolmg said:

    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:
    That's business in a nutshell. They tried to gouge the Govt. on price, because it would be too embarassing to have blue passports made by....

    They were told where to get off.
    Taken back control and awarded the contract to the EU
    Meh, more money for the government to spend on the NHS. What's not to like?
    170 fewer tax / NI receipts. 170 more JSA claims.
    These boys don't understand that accepting a cheap foreign offer and sending local jobs abroad does not save money , thicker than mince.
    Yes it can. Basic Ricardian trade theory.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    eristdoof said:

    Mr. Doof, not unlike the French ruling Languedoc or Brittany (assuming you're referring to Wales).

    It seems odd to me, even as a historically interested person, that so many are willing to bang on about the past rather than deal with the reality of today. Byzantium/Constantinople was the heart of the Eastern Roman Empire for over a thousand years. Yet the idea of 'restoring' it now is clearly crackers.

    Time moves on. What profit is there to be had by clinging to ancient grudges rather than seeking trying to learn the lessons that were painfully learnt in the past, so we might take advantage of the lesson without incurring the pain?

    Should I be loathing Normans for the Harrying/Harrowing of the North? Or despise Lancastrians because they 'cheated' in 1485?

    I realise you're almost certainly not one of said people, but the topic is baffling to me.

    I agree entirely.

    You can learn from history. But it is not a science. We can be worried that the political world in Europe and North America is splitting into two extremes, similar Europe in the period between the two world wars. But to rely on what we learnt historically from this period, in order to steer us away from fascism is a dangerous game, because so much of the environment is totally different.

    Equally, wanting to take the UK back to its status at the start of 1970 is absurd, as the rest of the world has moved on. England no longer holds the football world cup, Russia has lost most of it's empire, and I am allowed to walk one mile to visit friends without getting shot dead.
    LOL, you lot just cannot get over that one extremely dodgy win. Lived on it for over 50 years. UK is just like English football team , second rate.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,387
    edited July 6

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    Surrounded by the "right team" almost anyone can work. There's not much about Johnson's mayorship of London that gives me confidence he would make a good prime minister. He can delegate, but that's about his only leadership skill. Both his time in London and as FM were pretty chaotic, with poor decisions.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,660
    Morning all :)

    Assuming his supporters haven't borrowed Boris's own habit of telling the audience exactly what they want to hear (or what he thinks they want to hear), we are going to the land of the fantastic renegotiation for our summer holidays.

    Even though we have a WA which has been agreed by both sides and which the EU have said can't be changed, we are now supposed to believe Boris will not only get a new deal but said deal will "unite the nation".

    To quote a certain Mr V Meldrew "I don't believe it".

    I cannot believe people are so stupid and desperate to believe or want to believe this nonsense. I suppose if you are a Conservative looking at a 20% poll rating and being taken over by the Faragists you'll believe any line a decent con-man (no pun intended) will peddle.

    When we get to early October, what then? What if there's no deal on the horizon? Will Boris say something like "look, chaps, the Deal's just round the corner. Give me six more months and it'll be sorted.". That's up there with "the dog ate my homework" or "the cheque's in the post". Farage will have a field day and those so enthusiastic of Boris now will have had first hand experience of the saying "buying a pig in a poke".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 21,119
    It's quite a good new thread as well.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    Pulpstar said:

    Morning all, is California still attached to the USA ?

    Does anyone care
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    There is room for us all in the party

    I thought you said you weren't in the party?
    I’m not a member.

    But we pledged our support for the Tories a few years ago and that pledge still binds us.
    So, it's an emotional thing? Bit like a cult?
    Its his bulging wallet
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    Scott_P said:

    I suspect this ballot is going to end up in court

    That would be a hoot , exactly where both donkeys should be
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982

    Let's lay off HYUFD. The great things about PB over the past 15.5 years is that it has been a place where people of all political persuasions on all issues have been able to feel welcome and participate. He might be a minority voice on the site but it is a reminder as to why so many in the Conservative Party are backing someone like Boris as leader.

    Is he not able to look after himself/herself. You voice your opinions you have to expect replies.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    LOL, Cuckoo
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,677

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    There is room for us all in the party

    I thought you said you weren't in the party?
    I’m not a member.

    But we pledged our support for the Tories a few years ago and that pledge still binds us.
    So, it's an emotional thing? Bit like a cult?
    Nah, we just keep our promises.

    We fell out with the left when they established the Bank of England.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 8,678
    IanB2 said:

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    Leaving aside the well-documented downside of his time as Mayor, I'd suggest the skillset of that job is further away from PM than is that of Foreign Secretary.

    In the GLA he brought in a lot of high paid people who were in effect both political and civil servants who did all the bits of the job that didn't interest him (which was most of it).

    Much harder to hide behind others like that when you are PM. And harder to make political officer appointments.
    Is it much harder? Surely the resources to do that are more plentiful?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 8,678
    malcolmg said:

    The last Tory leader elected was a safe pair of hands. It turned out not to be safe. Surrounded by the right team, Boris can work, as he did in London.

    LOL, Cuckoo
    I'm under no illusions about his many shortcomings, but to be fair, I didn't rate Cameron either, and he managed to bumble along without major incident.
  • MangoMango Posts: 245


    I would like a more robust analysis than 'because he is the only Conservative politian who can beat Corbyn'.

    Something about Canada, GB, FTA and defeating diehard Remainers perhaps?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 23,881
    A landslide victory for Boris surely makes it even harder for Tory MPs to deny him the keys to Downing Street. To look at a landslide victory and say "no" would cause an even bigger rupture than the likes of Boles.

    Doesn't mean they can't threaten to pull the plug weeks later.
  • MangoMango Posts: 245



    Ah, the old 'don't believe in anything' garbage. That normally means, as in this case, 'doesn't believe in my irrational and extreme view'.

    But enjoy yourself while you can. It's hilarious to watch you putting your naïve trust in Boris, of all people - he's actually somewhat to the left of Cameron and of me, inasmuch as he has any political position.

    I know Boris is a social liberal.

    But for now, national independence is the goal and he is best placed to deliver. Once completed, we can move onto our next projects. My post-Brexit priorities are grammar schools, the death penalty, foreign aid and strict immigration controls like Australia.

    I look forward to pushing the party in that direction.
    Good to hear that foreign aid is one of your priorities.
    Grammar schools and death penalty too. Where all the evidence is on the other side, but, you know, let's feel righteous and reactionary.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 30,516

    A landslide victory for Boris surely makes it even harder for Tory MPs to deny him the keys to Downing Street. To look at a landslide victory and say "no" would cause an even bigger rupture than the likes of Boles.

    Doesn't mean they can't threaten to pull the plug weeks later.

    Tory MPs don't constitute a majority in parliament.
This discussion has been closed.