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  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    As someone who has long sought the office he now holds and has plotted to achieve it so intensely, making so many promises to do so, it's not exactly that I feel any sympathy for him, or that it is necessarily unseemly. However, not everything Boris does, even when bad, is the same level of bad. Even with Trump he's not doing something stupid and outrageous every time he opens his mouth. For me it rather undermines the impact of the really bad stuff Boris may say or do, because I get fatigued from being ourtaged over him saying big girls blouse or something.
    Theres a lot of personal animosity in how it's all going down, hes not loved. Hes tricky dicky (Kissinger said can you imagine what this man could have achieved if hed ever been loved?)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn

    ........................................................................................

    I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain

    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.

    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad

    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    HYUFD you are an obsessive and everything that is unattractive and wrong with modern politics.

    We as a Tory party need voters like Big_G and others. Hopefully by end of October Brexit can be behind us and there would be 4.5 years more where we would agree on more than just Brexit.
    They can remain members if they wish but no Cummings is right we cannot have Tory MPs standing again as Tory candidates while refusing to back Brexit Deal or No Deal as the vast majority of Tory members and voters now want in every poll.

    If Boris won a narrow majority of say 10 and those 21 Tory rebels were elected again as Tory MPs he could not get Brexit Deal or No Deal through despite a winning majority based on a manifesto to do so.

    You may not like it, it may be brutal but that is where we are now, diehard Remainers will stop at nothing to block Brexit and the Tory Party must be prepared to respond in kind to deliver Brexit
    Its right for MPs to back Brexit "deal or no deal" but that doesn't make Big_G a Lib Dem.

    At worst it would make him politically homeless, as I was while May was PM.
    A good comment. There's no need to over indulge in bitterness toward (new) opponents and triumphalism at one's own faction being in the ascendency.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn

    ........................................................................................

    I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain

    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.

    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad

    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    HYUFD you are an obsessive and everything that is unattractive and wrong with modern politics.

    We as a Tory party need voters like Big_G and others. Hopefully by end of October Brexit can be behind us and there would be 4.5 years more where we would agree on more than just Brexit.
    They can remain members if they wish but no Cummings is right we cannot have Tory MPs standing again as Tory candidates while refusing to back Brexit Deal or No Deal as the vast majority of Tory members and voters now want in every poll.

    If Boris won a narrow majority of say 10 and those 21 Tory rebels were elected again as Tory MPs he could not get Brexit Deal or No Deal through despite a winning majority based on a manifesto to do so.

    You may not like it, it may be brutal but that is where we are now, diehard Remainers will stop at nothing to block Brexit and the Tory Party must be prepared to respond in kind to deliver Brexit
    Those are the sentiments of Corbyn, Milne and Lansmann.
  • Ridiculous. Plenty of speeches get made in the presence of nurses etc, or in front of the army in Afghanistan or etc etc
    Precisely.

    Labour politician in doesn't like Boris shocker.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    A billion a month for the extension ?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn

    ........................................................................................

    I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain

    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.

    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad

    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour of
    They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31st
    You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.

    They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
    The short term visa will likely be three-six months as it is for a lot of other tourist visas. It most certainly won't be "days".
    You can't stay more than a few days or a couple of weeks if you can't pay your way by working, for example, in a bar as I did. It's a nothing announcement and just reinforces the fact that, as individuals, we are losing so many rights with this fiasco. It won't persuade anyone who thinks Brexit is a terrible idea otherwise. And if that was not the purpose of the announcement then what was the purpose of the announcement?
    There will undoubtedly be short-term employment visas if you were so inclined, although it will not be as easy as arriving without any plans. The number of people who do that sort of thing must be vanishingly small, however.

    As for the announcement, it confirms that visa-free visits will still be possible. That's probably of interest to quite a few people.
  • TGOHF said:

    A billion a month for the extension ?

    Yes.

    As well as disrupting businesses planning and stockpiling while forcing them to do it again in full knowledge that nothing will change by January with Christmas in the middle.

    Its pathetic. And those suggesting we do this to the country to try and make a Tory PM squirm are despicable and will be seen through by the sane members of the public who reject this insanity.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited September 2019
    kle4 said:

    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.

    His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it

    Which, if he does it, wins the election. Man of his word on Brexit = votes
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.

    This is karma.
  • DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
    IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.

    His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
    He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn

    ........................................................................................

    I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain

    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.

    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad

    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour of
    They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31st
    You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.

    They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
    They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.

    They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
  • HYUFD said:
    Perspective is such a rare blessing....
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.

    His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
    He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
    I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
  • Worth noting with all your sympathy for Ken Clarke that Ken Clarke was a member of John Major's Cabinet in 1993 when the decision was made to make Maastricht a confidence motion.

    Ken Clarke presumably agreed with removing the whip from MPs who vote the 'wrong' way against the party in Europe then - what's changed since? Why shouldn't Ken Clarke face the same sanction he was happy to see doled out to anyone who rebelled against Maastricht in 1993?
  • HYUFD said:
    But he still won’t vote for any deal, regardless of how “well” Boris does.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.

    His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
    He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
    I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
    Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    I'm off for a challenging chess match against higher rated opposition, try and keep Boris in power till I get home later!
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.

    This is karma.
    No, that was Corbyn and diehard Remainers mainly, Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3.

    What actually is happening is Boris is building a Tory lead May lost ready to finally deliver the Leave vote the diehard Remainers in Parliament have refused to respect
  • Being a Philadelphia lawyer I'm horrified by the complete misuse of police officers to provide a backdrop to what Boris himself described as the first day of the General Election. It's Banana Republic stuff. On the same day Rees-Mogg abused parliamentary privilege to smear a political opponent it just adds to the sense of complete unravelling of norms. Voting tactically for the Labour candidate in my Con held marginal ( anyone up for a vote swap ? ) while Jeremy Corbyn is leader is so grave a step I won't decide till polling day morning. However it does feel that this situation has ' gone nuclear ' and all there is left to do is order the counter strike from the bunker.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.

    His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
    He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
    I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
    Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.
    I thought Jezza had already made it clear he’d never use the UK’s nukes under any circumstances.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited September 2019
    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.

    His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
    He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
    I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
    Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.
    I thought Jezza had already made it clear he’d never use the UK’s nukes under any circumstances.
    Exactly. Is Boris going to surrender the nuclear deterrent?
  • (Most) Conservative MPs knew they were taking a massive gamble when they elected Boris.

    I wonder how they’re feeling today?
  • FFS why declare on 497/8 ?

    I mean its a good target but get 1 more boundary and declare FFS.

    /ocd obsessive.

    I read it as being a bit contempuous..

    'You think we need to care about these arbitrary numbers when we're so far ahead?'
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn

    ........................................................................................

    I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain

    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.

    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad

    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour of
    They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31st
    You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.

    They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
    They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.

    They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
    I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstated
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
    IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.
    90 days from 180 so that's my previous job made impossible,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2019
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    Yet the Tories still have a 7% lead over Labour and a 16% lead over the LDs in the latest poll today

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1169598068750200832?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    (Most) Conservative MPs knew they were taking a massive gamble when they elected Boris.

    I wonder how they’re feeling today?

    Waiting for the next polling update.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    eek said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
    IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.
    90 days from 180 so that's my previous job made impossible,
    Then you'd get a work visa instead, surely?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited September 2019
    TGOHF said:
    So Boris gets to find out what Priti Patel has been up to.
  • He's not Britain Trump 'cos if he were there'd be large chunks of the population (however deluded) glad to see him.

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1169664123745054727?s=20
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
    Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.

    Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.

    We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
  • PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    +1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited September 2019
    I remember when 'You should shut up and join the X' was a meme to mock over zealous Corbynites, not an accurate paraphrasing of the Borisites.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    TGOHF said:
    So Boris gets to find out what Priti Patel has been up to.
    Peter Kay way to Amarillo
  • Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.

    This is karma.
    Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.

    He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.

    If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    That'll go down well. The only leader less popular than Trump and a serial liar. I bet they got on like a house on fire
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2019
    nichomar said:

    This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
    Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.

    Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.

    We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.

    The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.

    Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived

    https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20


  • PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    +1
    -1

    True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
  • If the Tories needed a Brexiteer to take over at short notice, the most senior one who hasn’t been rejected already is Priti Patel.
  • Being a Philadelphia lawyer I'm horrified by the complete misuse of police officers to provide a backdrop to what Boris himself described as the first day of the General Election. It's Banana Republic stuff. On the same day Rees-Mogg abused parliamentary privilege to smear a political opponent it just adds to the sense of complete unravelling of norms. Voting tactically for the Labour candidate in my Con held marginal ( anyone up for a vote swap ? ) while Jeremy Corbyn is leader is so grave a step I won't decide till polling day morning. However it does feel that this situation has ' gone nuclear ' and all there is left to do is order the counter strike from the bunker.

    I recall Tony Blair spending first day of an election campaign at a school with children as a backdrop. Is that better?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited September 2019

    FFS why declare on 497/8 ?

    I mean its a good target but get 1 more boundary and declare FFS.

    /ocd obsessive.

    I read it as being a bit contempuous..

    'You think we need to care about these arbitrary numbers when we're so far ahead?'
    I think you are right; the Aussies have form for pointedly not delaying a declaration to make a milestone (Bradman, Mark Taylor, Michael Clarke).
  • Around 80% of people have heard of Cambridge Analytica? Am I reading that right? An extraordinarily high percentage if so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited September 2019



    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    +1
    -1

    True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
    So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.

    I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
    Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.

    Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.

    We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.

    The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.

    Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived

    https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
    You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The Brexit Party still relevant is the only way Labour can mitigate damage .

    The Tories boxed in to a no deal manifesto pledge would be likely to get the BP to make way in certain seats .

    That will scare off more moderate Tories . They maybe in a minority given current polling but still enough to cause the party a lot of problems .

    If the Tories go into an election with still trying for a deal then the BP won’t be going anywhere .

    The opposition need to close off the options for Bozo .

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kle4 said:

    One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.

    Hunt did at least vote against further extension, so has remained loyal for now
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    That is all true.

    And in addition, the only poll I have seen this week only gives the Tories a seven point lead, and even then most of the fieldwork is out of date (it doesn’t cover today’s omnishambles).

    In any case, polls are meaningless.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
    Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    That'll go down well. The only leader less popular than Trump and a serial liar. I bet they got on like a house on fire
    Macron is less popular that either at the moment
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.

    This is karma.
    Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.

    He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.

    If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
    I hope the real Tory party wakes-up and asserts itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2019
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
    Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.

    Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.

    We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.

    The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.

    Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived

    https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
    You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
    21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.

    So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It's interesting how the same people who said it was disgraceful to make a connection between John Bercow's political views and his wife's (who was intending to stand as a councillor in Westminster) are now making a big fuss over the connection between Boris and Jo Johnson's political views. I can't see how that isn't double standards.
  • kle4 said:



    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
    I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
    I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
    And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    +1
    -1

    True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
    So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.

    I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
    The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.

    I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
  • HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
    Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.

    Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.

    We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.

    The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.

    Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived

    https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
    You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
    21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.

    So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe
    But will voters still want Brexit once they've got it? Boris thinks not, hence the rush for an election before project fear becomes reality.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    I just realised that TGOHF and HYUFD are different people.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    nico67 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
    Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
    ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how the same people who said it was disgraceful to make a connection between John Bercow's political views and his wife's (who was intending to stand as a councillor in Westminster) are now making a big fuss over the connection between Boris and Jo Johnson's political views. I can't see how that isn't double standards.

    I honestly don't have a clue what point you were trying to make there.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
    Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
    ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
    What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?
  • I just added Michael Gove at 35/1 as next PM to my book, with Ladbrokes (boosted).

    Yes, he isn’t particularly trusted either. But he has appeal to both wings of the party, he’s a realist and the personal attack on him by Bercow the other day won’t have done him any disfavours.

    If Boris does get ejected he might just be able to cobble something together and is flexible enough to compromise.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited September 2019



    kle4 said:



    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a ooffice

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    +1
    -1

    True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
    So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.

    I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
    The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.

    I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
    In your opinion it has not fundamentally changed. Others apparently disagree. Perhaps they have miscalculated, although given how popular Boris is I don't see why that is the case. But your argument to stay in the 'outer orbit' and fight, that that is what 'true Conservatives' will do, seems pretty clear you think anyone who cannot bear being in the outer orbit will always be wrong because they have left.

    How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.
  • If the Tories needed a Brexiteer to take over at short notice, the most senior one who hasn’t been rejected already is Priti Patel.

    This experience is discrediting the headbanger wing entirely.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Is this a northern voter? Doesn’t matter as I understand from HY he will be voting for Boris nonetheless
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Gabs2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    I just realised that TGOHF and HYUFD are different people.
    Same poster, two different user accounts.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.

    This is karma.
    Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.

    He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.

    If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
    I hope the real Tory party wakes-up and asserts itself.
    There's about as much chance of that as of the real Labour Party waking up and asserting itself.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
    Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
    ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
    What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?
    No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Gabs2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    I just realised that TGOHF and HYUFD are different people.
    Same poster, two different user accounts.
    Yeah he does the night shift.
  • HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    That'll go down well. The only leader less popular than Trump and a serial liar. I bet they got on like a house on fire
    Macron is less popular that either at the moment
    image

  • They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.

    They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.

    I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstated
    Had IDS, Redwood, Cash and 18 other "bastards" voted down Maastricht in 1993 after Major made it a confidence vote would they have been thrown out of the party?

    Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?

    Would you have called that a step too far?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
    Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
    ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
    Jesmondo in Downing St then?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    That'll go down well. The only leader less popular than Trump and a serial liar. I bet they got on like a house on fire
    Macron is less popular that either at the moment
    image
    None have negative ratings?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037
    Gabs2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    I just realised that TGOHF and HYUFD are different people.
    Both great comedians...
  • kle4 said:

    One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.

    I’ve put a fiver on him too at 66/1 on the basis that it’d royally piss off Boris - all sides of the house might enjoy that - particularly with the lack of magnanimity shown to him following his victory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Boris may leave Wakefield now but he will return when it has fallen to the Tories after the next general election
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
    Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the

    Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.

    We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.

    The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.

    Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived

    https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
    You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
    21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.

    So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe
    You know, I don’t give a shit about opinion polls I believe values, principles and honesty count for far more. Yes he will win, I think, by conning the electorate that he will get it over with but it won’t stop me thinking that he is only interested in Johnson and you are only interested in the Tory party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    kle4 said:

    One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.

    I’ve put a fiver on him too at 66/1 on the basis that it’d royally piss off Boris - all sides of the house might enjoy that - particularly with the lack of magnanimity shown to him following his victory.
    Hunt also voted not to extend and block No Deal
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901


    They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.

    They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.

    I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstated
    Had IDS, Redwood, Cash and 18 other "bastards" voted down Maastricht in 1993 after Major made it a confidence vote would they have been thrown out of the party?

    Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?

    Would you have called that a step too far?
    Why go back that far? Half the current cabinet should have been chucked out of the party for what they did to May.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    HYUFD said:

    Boris may leave Wakefield now but he will return when it has fallen to the Tories after the next general election
    LOL
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:
    Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal left
    That'll go down well. The only leader less popular than Trump and a serial liar. I bet they got on like a house on fire
    Macron is less popular that either at the moment
    image
    So 57% do not approve of Macron then and that on the best poll you could find for him
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days

    Genuine question open to all: what would happen if Boris ignored this law?

    I can’t seem to find any detail on this point.
  • kle4 said:



    kle4 said:



    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am a ooffice

    If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
    Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.

    After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
    +1
    -1

    True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
    them.
    The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.

    I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
    In your opinion it has not fundamentally changed. Others apparently disagree. Perhaps they have miscalculated, although given how popular Boris is I don't see why that is the case. But your argument to stay in the 'outer orbit' and fight, that that is what 'true Conservatives' will do, seems pretty clear you think anyone who cannot bear being in the outer orbit will always be wrong because they have left.

    How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.
    Nope. You’re fighting a straw man.

    Ken Clarke, Philip Hammond, Nicholas Soames and Dominic Grieve (lifelong Conservatives) have chosen to stay and fight rather than defect to a party - the Liberal Democrats - that holds very different principles. They are in different category to Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, who’ve never been convincing Conservatives.

    And it’s not clear Boris is all that popular either, so the fight is very far from forlorn.

    Your final sentence is a massive non sequitur, which isn’t worthy of a response.
  • My other half just signed up as a Lib Dem member!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
    Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
    Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
    There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
    Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
    As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
    If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
    Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
    Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
    Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
    ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
    What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?
    No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days
    Er, he’d be breaking the law.
This discussion has been closed.