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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972
    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    Looks that way.

    Thanks, and so long for the gropes.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,097
    Danny565 said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    And when Parliament/the courts say no to both options....?
    It won't be Parliament - Boris's deal has to be accepted by the EU and who can see them doing that?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    This Buzzfeed article speculates that, when it comes down to a choice between Boris extending or resigning, he will extend:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-divide-brexit-october-31
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,600
    Is there a single shred of evidence the EU will accept this? It sounds highly unlikely to me.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1179140682231025664?s=21

    Has Boris booked the removal van yet? It doesn't matter what the new deal is, the EU will say no and even if they don't, of course parliament will.
    But we tried - are they so unreasonable?

    I mean really visibly unreasonable?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,313
    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    For those liberal minded Remainers celebrating more people recognize LDs as more pro-Remain may get what they do not wish for: the Remain vote totally split. All you will be doing is hand victory to HYUFD and his party.
    I am not sure the LDs can even get back to 2010 strength let alone Charlie Kennedy's heyday.

    I agree - they will do well to reach 30 seats.
    The LibDem seat number correlates pretty well in the post 1992 world with the Con-LD spread. If the number is 13-14 percentage points, as now, then that suggests they will end up with around 40-42 seats.

    Now, it may be that that spread blows out to 18-20 points, but you are taking a lot for granted in assuming it.
    Not entirely so. On the basis of UNS, even current polls would only produce fewer than 15 gains from the Tories and a mere handful from Labour - indeed only Sheffield Hallam looks a likely gain at Labour expense. Add a single gain from SNP - Fife NE - and that would take them to circa 30 seats. Personally, I expect them to fall back from current poll levels.
    If the election is after Brexit, then the LibDem's Rejoin position will very much not fire up the voters with enthusiasm.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,315
    Just reading the proposals .

    One problem stands out Stormont . The issue is the DUP could in effect have a veto . I think they’d need to change something there to stop the petition of concern I think it’s called.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,516
    edited October 2019
    I'm wondering whether Downing St have found some way for the PM to take us out of the EU with No Deal without having to wait until 31st October?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,313
    Still no winner of the Euromillions tonight. Must be clsoe to £200m on Friday.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 30,303
    justin124 said:

    I have never attached much weight to EU elections - and this year both major parties largely abstained from them.Nor do I share the widespread assumption that the the next election will be dominated by Brexit. Many expected that in 2017 and were proved wrong. I also recall that at that election we held different views as to the likely outcome in Remain strongholds such as Cambridge.

    Sure, but your whole argument is that the incerased concentration of LibDem votes that happened between 1992 and 2010 is not going to recur. And neither the data from polling nor the ballot box matches that.

    If you want to argue that the LDs will subside to the low teens, or that Brexit will be less of a factor, then those would be perfectly reasonable views. But arguing that the LD vote share will become highly inefficient again, is an opinion without evidence.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,054
    GIN1138 said:

    I'm wondering whether Downing St have found some way for the PM to take us out of the EU with No Deal without having to wait until 31st October?
    Quite possibly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972


    Time for HoC to take back control and end this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 42,504
    edited October 2019
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    This Buzzfeed article speculates that, when it comes down to a choice between Boris extending or resigning, he will extend:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-divide-brexit-october-31
    From the briefing of Boris speech,

    "The prime minister will use his speech at the Tory conference in Manchester to vow that “we can, we must and we will” quit the European Union by the Halloween deadline agreed earlier this year."

    If he then extended, after all the surrender act stuff and then standing up in the biggest speech saying the above...then in a week he says nahhh actually not going to, he will be toast and so would the Tories.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972

    Still no winner of the Euromillions tonight. Must be clsoe to £200m on Friday.

    When it hits £350m we can give it to the NHS.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,516

    GIN1138 said:

    I'm wondering whether Downing St have found some way for the PM to take us out of the EU with No Deal without having to wait until 31st October?
    Quite possibly.
    If so we could have exited the EU by Friday then? :D
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972
    Scott_P said:
    Election in November?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,498

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    For those liberal minded Remainers celebrating more people recognize LDs as more pro-Remain may get what they do not wish for: the Remain vote totally split. All you will be doing is hand victory to HYUFD and his party.
    I am not sure the LDs can even get back to 2010 strength let alone Charlie Kennedy's heyday.

    I agree - they will do well to reach 30 seats.
    The LibDem seat number correlates pretty well in the post 1992 world with the Con-LD spread. If the number is 13-14 percentage points, as now, then that suggests they will end up with around 40-42 seats.

    Now, it may be that that spread blows out to 18-20 points, but you are taking a lot for granted in assuming it.
    Not entirely so. On the basis of UNS, even current polls would only produce fewer than 15 gains from the Tories and a mere handful from Labour - indeed only Sheffield Hallam looks a likely gain at Labour expense. Add a single gain from SNP - Fife NE - and that would take them to circa 30 seats. Personally, I expect them to fall back from current poll levels.
    If the election is after Brexit, then the LibDem's Rejoin position will very much not fire up the voters with enthusiasm.
    Though the Remain backlash should do the LDs alright.

    Meanwhile working class Leavers no longer need to vote Tory.

    Double Whammy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972
    TGOHF2 said:
    Yeh, but Trump sends his congrats.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 5,690
    This is the end
    Hold your breath and count to ten
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,313

    Omnium said:

    I doubt we’ll see @SouthamObserver for a little while. Someone confiscate the Leonard Cohen CDs.

    I have you down as a Tom Lehrer fan Mr Meeks. God, if only I wasn't!


    I like both!

    Tom Lehrer is in that select category, alongside Clarissa Eden and Olivia de Havilland, of people still alive that you don’t expect to be (but are pleased that they are).
    Kirk Douglas is 102.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    This Buzzfeed article speculates that, when it comes down to a choice between Boris extending or resigning, he will extend:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-divide-brexit-october-31
    From the briefing of Boris speech,

    "The prime minister will use his speech at the Tory conference in Manchester to vow that “we can, we must and we will” quit the European Union by the Halloween deadline agreed earlier this year."

    If he then extended, after all the surrender act stuff and then standing up in the biggest speech saying the above...then in a week he says nahhh actually not going to, he will be toast and so would the Tories.
    Yep. Cummings has persuaded Johnson to blow his premiership to pieces in a mad dash against the wall.

    Bonkers.

    And it seems wiser, older aides are not happy.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Scott_P said:
    Come in number 77, your time is up.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,054
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I'm wondering whether Downing St have found some way for the PM to take us out of the EU with No Deal without having to wait until 31st October?
    Quite possibly.
    If so we could have exited the EU by Friday then? :D
    Well that would be interesting. Just as valid a speculation as anything else.

    Christ knows what all these “journalists” will tweet about after this all ends. Go back to proper journalism maybe.....
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not his best, and in danger of creating a meme even more mind blowing boring than bloody Schrodinger's sodding fucking cat.

    And it has just occurred to me that that is French for "this is not a blowjob". Do we think naughty old Magritte intended that?
    'This is not a blowjob', a sentiment we can all sympathise with.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 10,756

    Still no winner of the Euromillions tonight. Must be clsoe to £200m on Friday.

    Close to a week's worth of UK EU donations.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 42,504
    edited October 2019
    TGOHF2 said:
    The EU will do their usual and say something like unacceptable deal, but we are always open to talk, but WA can't change (significantly) and all EU red lines must remain intact.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,972
    All too much for me. I need a lie down.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,516
    When's Parliament proroguing again? ;)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    GIN1138 said:

    When's Parliament proroguing again? ;)

    When Old Liz can trust Boris isn't trying to get her to break the law again?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 3,949

    Omnium said:

    I doubt we’ll see @SouthamObserver for a little while. Someone confiscate the Leonard Cohen CDs.

    I have you down as a Tom Lehrer fan Mr Meeks. God, if only I wasn't!


    I like both!

    Tom Lehrer is in that select category, alongside Clarissa Eden and Olivia de Havilland, of people still alive that you don’t expect to be (but are pleased that they are).
    Assuming that you're approving of Lehrer then wisdom prevails. Until you pointed it out I hadn't realised that Clarissa Eden was still alive. Wow!

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Noo said:

    Come in number 77, your time is up.

    Come in Number 9.

    We only have 8 boats...

    Are you in difficulty Number 6?



    Ah, my coat...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,600
    edited October 2019
    "Greggs stockpiles pork for sausage rolls ahead of Brexit"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49890034

    Those sausage rolls could be well-dodgy by 2020.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Remainers seem very keen not even to hear what the EU thinks - much panicking ..
  • "Greggs stockpiles pork for sausage rolls ahead of Brexit"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49890034

    Those sausage rolls could be well-dodgy by 2020.

    What about the vegan ones?
  • eekeek Posts: 7,097

    Still no winner of the Euromillions tonight. Must be clsoe to £200m on Friday.

    It reached it's maximum amount last Tuesday. If it is not won on Friday the money will be paid out next Tuesday (I think) with the jackpot given to the next prize level down until won.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Scott_P said:

    Noo said:

    Come in number 77, your time is up.

    Come in Number 9.

    We only have 8 boats...

    Are you in difficulty Number 6?



    Ah, my coat...
    I see you also owned the book "1000 jokes for kids" by Michael Kilgarriff
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Danny565 said:

    When Old Liz can trust Boris isn't trying to get her to break the law again?

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 25,461
    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,560

    Omnium said:

    I doubt we’ll see @SouthamObserver for a little while. Someone confiscate the Leonard Cohen CDs.

    I have you down as a Tom Lehrer fan Mr Meeks. God, if only I wasn't!


    I like both!

    Tom Lehrer is in that select category, alongside Clarissa Eden and Olivia de Havilland, of people still alive that you don’t expect to be (but are pleased that they are).
    Kirk Douglas is 102.
    Jimmy Carter is 95 today. First US president to reach that age.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,910

    viewcode said:

    @MarqueeMark , I note your remark on the previous thread about apologies from those who mocked you for saying that the EU would make further concessions. I am not aware of mocking you on that specific point (as opposed to generally, or on other points), but if I did and the concession eventuates and it gets passed by all parties before Oct 31st, then let me apologise in advance.

    That is very genereous, considering I was indulging in some mild trolling!
    These things are best done fast, I find. Still, thirty days to go: let's see what happens. For good or ill... :(
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,951

    "Greggs stockpiles pork for sausage rolls ahead of Brexit"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49890034

    Those sausage rolls could be well-dodgy by 2020.

    What about the vegan ones?
    I’ll pop by the drive through and get a load for the PB gang.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,516
    edited October 2019
    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Parliament proroguing again? ;)

    When Old Liz can trust Boris isn't trying to get her to break the law again?
    I thought QS was still happening on 14th October and Parliament would prorogue for five days or so before as is usual practice?

    That would make it likely to prorogue sometime towards the end of next week?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,498
    Boris's Deal looks rather "Springtime for Hitler" to me. Something to offend everyone.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 42,504
    edited October 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
    Isn't that because they had to buy him a non-disposable container after an aid had a freak out over having a single use coffee cup....I believe Byronic drinks his out of the racist Labour mug.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
    Byronic doesn't drink tea; it's champagne enemas all the way.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,240



    Time for HoC to take back control and end this.
    I’m beginning to doubt whether, even at the sharp end of this process, the opposition are going to get their shit together.

    While I appreciate everything can change in an EU negotiation at a late stage, the point seems to be approaching where (1) Boris has a stated final position, (2) the EU is still laughing at it and (3) Boris has no intention of asking for an extension. Which feels like the moment to act. While the courts may come to Remainers’ rescue again on point 3 - though presumably not until about Oct 22+ - a VONC and new govt feels a more watertight way of delivering their apparently unanimous key demand: avoiding a no deal Brexit.

    I’m not sure what Boris’s plan is, but he’ll be massively emboldened in it if he realises he can still act with political impunity despite a -40 majority.

  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,054
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers seem very keen not even to hear what the EU thinks - much panicking ..

    Does seem that way.

    It won’t happen but maybe PB can put up a link to M&S if they do agree so new underwear can be bought with the minimum of disruption.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,097
    nico67 said:

    Just reading the proposals .

    One problem stands out Stormont . The issue is the DUP could in effect have a veto . I think they’d need to change something there to stop the petition of concern I think it’s called.

    Here's a second problem

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    I doubt we’ll see @SouthamObserver for a little while. Someone confiscate the Leonard Cohen CDs.

    I have you down as a Tom Lehrer fan Mr Meeks. God, if only I wasn't!


    I like both!

    Tom Lehrer is in that select category, alongside Clarissa Eden and Olivia de Havilland, of people still alive that you don’t expect to be (but are pleased that they are).
    Kirk Douglas is 102.
    Jimmy Carter is 95 today. First US president to reach that age.
    Gods... Bill Clinton won't reach that age until 2041.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,498

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
    Isn't that because they had to buy him a non-disposable container after an aid had a freak out over having a single use coffee cup....I believe Byronic drinks his out of the racist Labour mug.
    I think you are confusing Byronic with SeanT. One is an addled old drunk, the other an international male model.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Noo said:

    Byronic doesn't drink tea; it's champagne enemas all the way.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Parliament proroguing again? ;)

    When Old Liz can trust Boris isn't trying to get her to break the law again?
    I though QS was still happening on 14th October and Parliament would prorogue for five days or so before as is usual practice?

    That would make it likely to prorogue sometime towards the end of next week?
    Admittedly the Sun story goes against this, but I wouldn't have thought it would be a certainty that the Queen would go along with that after the last fiasco. She could quite rightly say that the government wouldn't lose anything by waiting until after 31st Oct for a QS, so as to avoid any risk of her getting even further dragged into politics.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 22,257
    GIN1138 said:

    I'm wondering whether Downing St have found some way for the PM to take us out of the EU with No Deal without having to wait until 31st October?
    This does seem to be the plan. Having some kind of plan. No one can see it but either they are absolutely batshit crazy about to slam into the wall or they have this all thought out.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,097
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
    Isn't that because they had to buy him a non-disposable container after an aid had a freak out over having a single use coffee cup....I believe Byronic drinks his out of the racist Labour mug.
    I think you are confusing Byronic with SeanT. One is an addled old drunk, the other an international male model.
    with a striking resemblance to an addled old drunk..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,600



    Time for HoC to take back control and end this.
    I’m beginning to doubt whether, even at the sharp end of this process, the opposition are going to get their shit together.

    While I appreciate everything can change in an EU negotiation at a late stage, the point seems to be approaching where (1) Boris has a stated final position, (2) the EU is still laughing at it and (3) Boris has no intention of asking for an extension. Which feels like the moment to act. While the courts may come to Remainers’ rescue again on point 3 - though presumably not until about Oct 22+ - a VONC and new govt feels a more watertight way of delivering their apparently unanimous key demand: avoiding a no deal Brexit.

    I’m not sure what Boris’s plan is, but he’ll be massively emboldened in it if he realises he can still act with political impunity despite a -40 majority.

    Didn't we have similar doubts being aired in the run-up to the Benn Act being passed?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 30,303
    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Scott_P said:

    Noo said:

    Byronic doesn't drink tea; it's champagne enemas all the way.

    :D
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,040
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
    One of the partners at my firm drinks tea out of a mug with a picture of him as a young man on it. The picture is unflattering and was dug out of archive on an office move, and so he claims to be doing it ironically, but his secretary tells us he loves it and absofuckinglutely is not doing it ironically.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,732
    edited October 2019
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    This Buzzfeed article speculates that, when it comes down to a choice between Boris extending or resigning, he will extend:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-divide-brexit-october-31
    3 groups identified, the first led by Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab and Cummings says Boris must commit to deliver Brexit on 31st October even at the cost of losing a VONC.

    The second group led by Justice Secretary Robert Buckland says the PM must accept the Benn Law and extend. A third group, supposedly 'pragmatists' say Boris can survive an extension having done everything to avoid it
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    rcs1000 said:

    - customs checks away from the border

    Which one?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.

    JRM is on board.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,600
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.

    ... and the EU will reject it anyway because it breaks their red lines. A backstop that can be unilaterally cancelled is not a backstop.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,553
    I cannot quite get this "Get Brexit Done" mantra bollox...since Boris is really no longer PM..he is a sociopathic, lecherous, groping sack of flab running a cabal of acolytes who hold zero leverage in Parliament...why is anyone, I mean anyone (even Hyfud) listening to his pile of shyte?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Nigelb said:
    So possible charges are:
    * dodgy visa
    * dodgy loans
    * public money to pay for "private home visits"
    * non-declaration of personal relationship with recipient of funding

    Did I miss anything?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    edited October 2019

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.

    ... and the EU will reject it anyway because it breaks their red lines. A backstop that can be unilaterally cancelled is not a backstop.
    Can it be cancelled or is it just time limited ?

    We’ve seen their red lines move anyway.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,054
    Noo said:

    Nigelb said:
    So possible charges are:
    * dodgy visa
    * dodgy loans
    * public money to pay for "private home visits"
    * non-declaration of personal relationship with recipient of funding

    Did I miss anything?
    Evidence?
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,040
    eek said:

    Still no winner of the Euromillions tonight. Must be clsoe to £200m on Friday.

    It reached it's maximum amount last Tuesday. If it is not won on Friday the money will be paid out next Tuesday (I think) with the jackpot given to the next prize level down until won.
    The EV of a ticket might be getting quite close to the price of a ticket.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,600
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He drinks his tea out of a mug with his own face on it? I bet even Byronic doesn’t do that.
    Isn't that because they had to buy him a non-disposable container after an aid had a freak out over having a single use coffee cup....I believe Byronic drinks his out of the racist Labour mug.
    I think you are confusing Byronic with SeanT. One is an addled old drunk, the other an international male model.
    with a striking resemblance to an addled old drunk..
    The drunkenness you detect of an evening in Byronic is simply his joie de vivre. True, it presents identically to Sean’s rampant insobriety but it is wholly different.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    This Buzzfeed article speculates that, when it comes down to a choice between Boris extending or resigning, he will extend:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-divide-brexit-october-31
    3 groups identified, the first led by Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab and Cummings says Boris must commit to deliver Brexit on 31st October even at the cost of losing a VONC.
    Yes, indeed, but the article speculates that, given Boris's only real consistent belief is that he should be PM, in the end he will choose extending the Brexit deadline (albeit with a lot of whingeing about "traitorous Remainers making me do this") over leaving office.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 25,461

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.

    ... and the EU will reject it anyway because it breaks their red lines. A backstop that can be unilaterally cancelled is not a backstop.
    So apart from Remainers, Labour leavers, Tory headbanger leavers, and the EU, everybody’s happy?

    What tremendous progress Bozo has made.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Nigelb said:
    So possible charges are:
    * dodgy visa
    * dodgy loans
    * public money to pay for "private home visits"
    * non-declaration of personal relationship with recipient of funding

    Did I miss anything?
    Evidence?
    Well, I have none. I'm just asking about the extent of the allegations. Boris is innocent until proven guilty.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    IanB2 said:

    So apart from Remainers, Labour leavers, Tory headbanger leavers, and the EU, everybody’s happy?

    What tremendous progress Bozo has made.

    Apparently the cabinet haven't seen it :)
  • Scott_P said:
    Love the idea of Philip Schofield as acting PM.

    Though given how ragtag and absurd the Rabble Alliance are becoming its more likely to become Rylan Clark-Neal instead.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This is it.

    Take it or leave it.

    Do or die.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,600

    Scott_P said:
    Love the idea of Philip Schofield as acting PM.

    Though given how ragtag and absurd the Rabble Alliance are becoming its more likely to become Rylan Clark-Neal instead.
    Holly Willoughby would do me fine.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 22,257
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.

    It may be good or bad but do we really think the EU is going to accept a fait accompli presented unilaterally at the last minute by a soon to be ex member state?

    Seems unlikely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,498
    Noo said:

    Nigelb said:
    So possible charges are:
    * dodgy visa
    * dodgy loans
    * public money to pay for "private home visits"
    * non-declaration of personal relationship with recipient of funding

    Did I miss anything?
    Lock him up!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited October 2019
    Nigelb said:
    It seems rather unfair to accuse this Paola woman of impropriety just because she once worked for Boris. And let's be clear, that's the insinuation in the story, she worked for Boris so her grant of the Visa must be dodgy. Nasty, unprincipled journalism not based on anything evidence related
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,240



    Time for HoC to take back control and end this.
    I’m beginning to doubt whether, even at the sharp end of this process, the opposition are going to get their shit together.

    While I appreciate everything can change in an EU negotiation at a late stage, the point seems to be approaching where (1) Boris has a stated final position, (2) the EU is still laughing at it and (3) Boris has no intention of asking for an extension. Which feels like the moment to act. While the courts may come to Remainers’ rescue again on point 3 - though presumably not until about Oct 22+ - a VONC and new govt feels a more watertight way of delivering their apparently unanimous key demand: avoiding a no deal Brexit.

    I’m not sure what Boris’s plan is, but he’ll be massively emboldened in it if he realises he can still act with political impunity despite a -40 majority.

    Didn't we have similar doubts being aired in the run-up to the Benn Act being passed?
    Maybe. I think the MO so far has been “do the minimum we need to today” to frustrate No Deal, with the assumption there’s more road ahead and bigger things to do, which will be possible as parties recognise time is up. Given the fragility of the Rebel Alliance that’s understandable, but it does rely on them reading the game further ahead than Cummings.

    If Boris comes up with a wheeze, they’ll regret not doing more sooner (or polish their nails on the lapels, glad to have fulfilled their *actual* main priority of stopping Corbyn/Clarke/Swinson/AN Other becoming PM!)
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Foxy said:

    Noo said:

    Nigelb said:
    So possible charges are:
    * dodgy visa
    * dodgy loans
    * public money to pay for "private home visits"
    * non-declaration of personal relationship with recipient of funding

    Did I miss anything?
    Lock him up!
    Innocent until proven guilty. But, gods, investigate this stuff.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 30,303

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the UK's offer is not a bad one. It has:

    - customs checks away from the border
    - a four year time limit

    I think it may be amended to give the Northern Ireland assembly more power. (So, they could in theory remove themselves earlier, but can equally ask for for an extension.)

    It may still be unacceptable to some headbangers. It will probably be unacceptable to Remainers. Labour Leavers will still probably oppose it because it's a Tory Brexit.

    ... and the EU will reject it anyway because it breaks their red lines. A backstop that can be unilaterally cancelled is not a backstop.
    This is why I think a change so as to give the Northern Ireland Assembly suzerainity is likely on the cards. The EU will believe that the NAI will never actually vote for the Province to leave the backstop, so they'll go for it. And we'll go for it, because it appears to make the backstop less rather than more permanent.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,732
    edited October 2019
    Danny565 said:


    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Given that this "new deal" seems designed to be shot down, by everybody, are we win the last week of BoZo's premiership?

    This Buzzfeed article speculates that, when it comes down to a choice between Boris extending or resigning, he will extend:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-divide-brexit-october-31
    3 groups identified, the first led by Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab and Cummings says Boris must commit to deliver Brexit on 31st October even at the cost of losing a VONC.
    Yes, indeed, but the article speculates that, given Boris's only real consistent belief is that he should be PM, in the end he will choose extending the Brexit deadline (albeit with a lot of whingeing about "traitorous Remainers making me do this") over leaving office.
    If he does that he will be leaving office pretty swiftly as the Brexit Party would overtake the Tories in the polls, Tory MPs would then be forced to no confidence Boris and Dominic Raab would be elected new Tory leader by a landslide amongst the membership
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,240

    Scott_P said:
    Love the idea of Philip Schofield as acting PM.

    Though given how ragtag and absurd the Rabble Alliance are becoming its more likely to become Rylan Clark-Neal instead.
    Holly Willoughby would do me fine.
    When you say “do me”......?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    GIN1138 said:

    I'm wondering whether Downing St have found some way for the PM to take us out of the EU with No Deal without having to wait until 31st October?
    If he had a majority for it he could simply amend Exit Day in the Withdrawal Act.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,498
    Scott_P said:

    IanB2 said:

    So apart from Remainers, Labour leavers, Tory headbanger leavers, and the EU, everybody’s happy?

    What tremendous progress Bozo has made.

    Apparently the cabinet haven't seen it :)
    No Deal it is.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,560

    Scott_P said:
    Love the idea of Philip Schofield as acting PM.

    Though given how ragtag and absurd the Rabble Alliance are becoming its more likely to become Rylan Clark-Neal instead.
    Holly Willoughby would do me fine.
    When you say “do me”......?
    I’m fairly sure she wouldn’t.

  • tysontyson Posts: 5,553

    Scott_P said:
    Love the idea of Philip Schofield as acting PM.

    Though given how ragtag and absurd the Rabble Alliance are becoming its more likely to become Rylan Clark-Neal instead.
    Comrade...the ragtag alliance have a Parliamentary majority and have control..

    Whatever Boris Johnson says means nowt.... that sociopathic piece of shit doesn't deserve anything else..his response with the Cox question, a young female who was horrifically murdered.....says it all about the man doesn't it?
This discussion has been closed.