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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Woodcock is in favour of Brexit happening, champion said she'd prefer no deal to no Brexit and Lewis wants a deal (but preferably with a referendum)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    nichomar said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    I have been saying that all day and it is why I do not expect the EU to provide time for a referendum, ie to June 2020
    So revoke is the only solution so we can stuff those awful Europeans and make them put up with us for another fifty years, bring it on
    It truly was a very vital moment when revoke was determined to be entirely within British power
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Andrew said:

    Here's a thought - what if Boris turns up at the Council tomorrow, asks for and receives a two week extension to finalise the current WA?

    It would essentially bypass the Benn Act.

    No.

    The Benn Act dictates the letter he must send requesting an extension until 31 January 2020.

    Now if he asks for the the extension as dictated by the letter but the EU offer him one for only two weeks, then the Benn Act is satisfied and BoJo can (and indeed must) accept their offer.
    I thought if the EU offer was anything other than 3 months it was for Parliament to decide if they accept.
    It states he has the option of accepting a different extension
  • Andrew said:

    Here's a thought - what if Boris turns up at the Council tomorrow, asks for and receives a two week extension to finalise the current WA?

    It would essentially bypass the Benn Act.

    No.

    The Benn Act dictates the letter he must send requesting an extension until 31 January 2020.

    Now if he asks for the the extension as dictated by the letter but the EU offer him one for only two weeks, then the Benn Act is satisfied and BoJo can (and indeed must) accept their offer.
    I would not be at all surprised that Boris seeks an extension for technical reasons in the meetings tomorrow and friday and the EU provide a limited time extension which in effect resolves the Benn act but not in the way remainers wanted

    Also France wanting (and others) to see the back of us is very plausible
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    If the French make the Benn Act redundant by vetoing extension, I expect Boris will be dining on moules et frites next week
    They won’t veto an extension , we’ve heard it all before but I expect the EU to make any extension the final one .

    That way there will be an end regardless of what happens.
    If it is to be a final one the extension would have to be long, to allow the possibility of various British options to be worked out.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    kle4 said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Andrew said:

    Possible yes votes from outside the tory/dup/ex Tory axis
    Kate Hoey
    Kelvin Hopkins
    Frank Field
    Ian Austin
    Ivan Lewis
    Stephen Lloyd
    Norman Lamb
    Charlie Elphicke
    John Woodcock
    Sarah Champion

    Possible abstentions based on past voting
    Stringer, Skinner, Flint

    Mann and O'Mara will be abstentions not present


    So if all current Con+DUP MPs (Paterson/Francois etc?) vote for, it's up to 297. Assume as Bebb said, 6-8 of the 21 vote against (some possible abstentions in there?), take the midpoint of 14, takes us to 311.

    Then if no O'Mara/Mann, it needs 8 from the above - plus Hermon, has she said anything yet?
    Of them Hoey, Field, Elphicke, Champion, Lloyd and Austin are definite yes I think, woodcock very likely to vote yes, Lamb maybe or maybe abstain, Lewis would prefer a referendum but might vote yes
    The 3 abstainers I think will abstain again and I forgot Kevin Barron, he voted for May's deal so is a possible.

    Hermon will vote against I think, shes waspish on the idea
    Could come down to the Speaker. Pretty sure the convention would anticipate a No vote in that situation.
    I always thought that, from my time as mayor, if it came to a casting vote one should vote for the status quo regardless of your first vote which you were always free to exercise. So the status quo is to remain in the EU so the speaker is obliged to not change our current status.
    For the Commons there is the general rule of course
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_Denison's_rule

    But like any convention does not have to be followed, though he probably would.

    For local authorities unless standing orders dictate otherwise pretty sure the legal position is you can exercise the casting vote however you wish, but I've known plenty adopt a similar general position (or rather stated they would, since ties rarely occur) as you state around status quo. Plenty of more old school chairs may not vote at all unless it is to cast a decider.

    I wouldn’t have used my casting vote politically but I would always use my first vote I think it happened once and I voted for no change so that people could bring it back with more structured argument to try again.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 2,946
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Is there anything to the Buttigieg hype? Someone said he has good organisation in Iowa and oodles of cash, but is it working?

    He is 'Oxford-educated'
    Ah, he went to Oxford Brookes.
    Hey, nothing wrong with Oxford Brookes.

    My wife went there and has been happy on occasion to reply truthfully 'Oxford' when asked where she got her degree. :lol:
    That's a shocker.

    There are people who went to Oxford Brookes, who want to be thought of as having gone to Oxford Uni?

    "Look at me - I'm a highly educated practically stupid person from another planet."

    (Based on an entirely objective assessment of Oxford graduates who infest the media :-o )
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495

    spudgfsh said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    Forgive my ignorance, I did German, what does it actually say?
    You (The UK) have to go now.
    Mais si tu dois partir, va-t'en
    Si non, tu dois rester la nuit
    Surely vous rather than tu? ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,035
    HYUFD said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    If the French make the Benn Act redundant by vetoing extension, I expect Boris will be dining on moules et frites next week
    Why would he be in Brussels...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    GIN1138 said:

    Have we heard the outcome of the DUPs meeting in Downing St this evening?

    No! No! No!
  • justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Not as much as they despise Corbyn
  • I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,582
    RobD said:

    Andrew said:

    Here's a thought - what if Boris turns up at the Council tomorrow, asks for and receives a two week extension to finalise the current WA?

    It would essentially bypass the Benn Act.

    No.

    The Benn Act dictates the letter he must send requesting an extension until 31 January 2020.

    Now if he asks for the the extension as dictated by the letter but the EU offer him one for only two weeks, then the Benn Act is satisfied and BoJo can (and indeed must) accept their offer.
    He can ask for a shorter extension, he just needs a confirmatory vote from the commons for the new date.
    I don't think that's true. The HoC can reject an alternative extension offered by the EU but the PM cannot ask for one under the current Benn Act (European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019)
  • nichomar said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    I have been saying that all day and it is why I do not expect the EU to provide time for a referendum, ie to June 2020
    So revoke is the only solution so we can stuff those awful Europeans and make them put up with us for another fifty years, bring it on
    Revoke without a referendum could only happen after a GE with the party committing to it obtaining a majority
  • justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Hoey voted against on the same grounds as the DUP. Lewis is unusual amongst the ex Labour indies in that he intends to defend his seat as an Indie. It's a Leave seat. Woodcock is a genuine europhile who wants a People's Vote. My sense is he's given up on his seat. That cuts both ways. Nothing to lose but he's a young man who will be looking for work. My guess is Hoey will vote with the DUP though she is close to Farage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    edited October 2019

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
  • spudgfsh said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    Forgive my ignorance, I did German, what does it actually say?
    You (The UK) have to go now.
    Voyage, voyage
    Plus loin que la nuit et le jour, (voyage voyage)
    Voyage (voyage)
    Dans l'espace inouï de l'amour.
    Voyage, voyage
    Sur l'eau sacrée d'un fleuve indien, (voyage voyage)
    Voyage (voyage)
    Et jamais ne revient
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,203
    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    If the French make the Benn Act redundant by vetoing extension, I expect Boris will be dining on moules et frites next week
    They won’t veto an extension , we’ve heard it all before but I expect the EU to make any extension the final one .

    That way there will be an end regardless of what happens.
    If it is to be a final one the extension would have to be long, to allow the possibility of various British options to be worked out.
    Why? It is not incumbent on them to satisfy our self inflicted needs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    GIN1138 said:
    Everyone knows the DUP would never pout and stick to their guns, even at the cost of looking ridiculous or being self defeating, rather than look weak.
  • I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    TSE the Tory-Boy! :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562
    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

  • kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495
    GIN1138 said:
    No doubt that is a wargamed solution from the master......

    I think the DUP are too pig-headed to ever bluff
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    philiph said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    If the French make the Benn Act redundant by vetoing extension, I expect Boris will be dining on moules et frites next week
    They won’t veto an extension , we’ve heard it all before but I expect the EU to make any extension the final one .

    That way there will be an end regardless of what happens.
    If it is to be a final one the extension would have to be long, to allow the possibility of various British options to be worked out.
    Why? It is not incumbent on them to satisfy our self inflicted needs.
    It would need to be long for them to not appear to be ruling out various options - they don't want to carry the blame for that. If they didn't care about what options we might come up with they would not have extended to October in the first place, they could have extended a week and insisted we make a decision. They didn't do that and won't again, so if it is to be a final extension they won't want to stack the deck in favour of one option, they'd want it to appear to be open to us to do anything we wanted, but it really really is the last chance.

    In short, a long extension is not about satisfying our needs - frankly our needs are better served by a short-medium extension at most, to force a decision - it is about satisfying theirs.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,387
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
    It's a bit like voting for Hitler in the Reichstag when you had failed to do so for Von Papen and Bruening!
  • HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,582
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Is there anything to the Buttigieg hype? Someone said he has good organisation in Iowa and oodles of cash, but is it working?

    He is 'Oxford-educated'
    Ah, he went to Oxford Brookes.
    Hey, nothing wrong with Oxford Brookes.

    My wife went there and has been happy on occasion to reply truthfully 'Oxford' when asked where she got her degree. :lol:
    That's a shocker.

    There are people who went to Oxford Brookes, who want to be thought of as having gone to Oxford Uni?

    "Look at me - I'm a highly educated practically stupid person from another planet."

    (Based on an entirely objective assessment of Oxford graduates who infest the media :-o )
    I take your point but I don't see Oxford Uni struggling to attract entrants.

    To be fair to Mrs P, she's only ever ommitted 'Brookes' on a couple of occasions under severe provocation.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 3,523
    edited October 2019
    It's déjà vu all over again as Macron plays de Gaulle to Johnson's Macmillan.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    You shouldn't resign comrade. I'm still a loyal member of the Labour Party despite the leadership......

    Loyalty is loyalty.......things will turn back in our favour....BoJo is a knob, and Corbyn a clown..but we should still hold to our inner beliefs (even though me and thee are political foes)
  • Yellow_SubmarineYellow_Submarine Posts: 647
    edited October 2019
    GIN1138 said:
    The source is spot on. The DUP are being asked to vote for something that will be in the first paragraph of their obituaries. The unionists who downgraded Northern Ireland's status within the UK. Having that imposed on them suits their grevience culture. Actively having to vote for it doesn't.
  • justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
    It's a bit like voting for Hitler in the Reichstag when you had failed to do so for Von Papen and Bruening!
    Why do you refer to Hitler so much. Strange obsession
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,582

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    Weak, weak, weak!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,035
    GIN1138 said:
    His source being the neighbour’s cat?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,910
    edited October 2019
    spudgfsh said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    Forgive my ignorance, I did German, what does it actually say?
    FRENCH ORIGINAL
    "...A la une de Libération ce jeudi, le Brexit : il faut y aller maintenant. Apres trois ans de psychodrame et deux semaines de la date couperet du 31st octobre, Europeenes et britanniques negociaient encore pied a pied mecredi soir..."

    ENGLISH TRANSLATION
    "...On the front page of Liberation this Thursday, Brexit: it's time to go[1]. After three years of psychodrama and two weeks before the cutoff date of 31st October, Europeans and British are still negotiating step-by-step Wednesday night..."

    [1] Not sure of this: it ranges from "its time for us to part" to "go now"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    You shouldn't resign comrade. I'm still a loyal member of the Labour Party despite the leadership......

    Loyalty is loyalty.......things will turn back in our favour....BoJo is a knob, and Corbyn a clown..but we should still hold to our inner beliefs (even though me and thee are political foes)
    That supposes that our political parties really do have core beliefs and ideologies that cannot shift decisively over time to become unrecognisable from their former selves. Colour me skeptical.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
    It's a bit like voting for Hitler in the Reichstag when you had failed to do so for Von Papen and Bruening!
    Why do you refer to Hitler so much. Strange obsession
    Isn't the whole Brexit debaclke simply a re-hash of WW2 memes.......
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,035

    GIN1138 said:
    No doubt that is a wargamed solution from the master......

    I think the DUP are too pig-headed to ever bluff
    Someone leaking like that is a junior who is not actually in the room
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 741

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:
    I wonder to what extent the public are waking up to the fact that *every single one* of these endless 'Get Your Flu Jab' communications shows flu making life far more difficult and complicated whilst *not a single one* shows flu making life easier or better.

    Errr, you what?
    My purpose seems to be to flush out the terminally dim tonght.
    I was thinking of trying to make some really cool response to that, but then I noticed you didn't spell "tonight" correctly, so I guess I can just leave it at that :wink:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,910

    Andrew said:

    Here's a thought - what if Boris turns up at the Council tomorrow, asks for and receives a two week extension to finalise the current WA?

    It would essentially bypass the Benn Act.

    No.

    The Benn Act dictates the letter he must send requesting an extension until 31 January 2020.

    Now if he asks for the the extension as dictated by the letter but the EU offer him one for only two weeks, then the Benn Act is satisfied and BoJo can (and indeed must) accept their offer.
    I thought if the EU offer was anything other than 3 months it was for Parliament to decide if they accept.
    Unfortunately that requires Parliament making a decision... :(
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495
    Charles said:

    GIN1138 said:
    No doubt that is a wargamed solution from the master......

    I think the DUP are too pig-headed to ever bluff
    Someone leaking like that is a junior who is not actually in the room
    You would certainly hope so. If that was one of the senior people.... well.... oops!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 12,582
    viewcode said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    Forgive my ignorance, I did German, what does it actually say?
    FRENCH ORIGINAL
    "...A la une de Libération ce jeudi, le Brexit : il faut y aller maintenant. Apres trois ans de psychodrame et deux semaines de la date couperet du 31st octobre, Europeenes et britanniques negociaient encore pied a pied mecredi soir..."

    ENGLISH TRANSLATION
    "...On the front page of Liberation this Thursday, Brexit: it's time to go[1]. After three years of psychodrama and two weeks before the cutoff date of 31st October, Europeans and British are still negotiating step-by-step Wednesday night..."

    [1] Not sure of this: it ranges from "its time for us to part" to "go now"
    I prefer Google Translates offering. Much funnier:

    "...On the front page of Liberation this Thursday, the Brexit: we must go now. After three years of psychodrama and two weeks of the chopper date of 31st October, Europeans and British still negotiated foot-and-hand on Friday night..."
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526
    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    You shouldn't resign comrade. I'm still a loyal member of the Labour Party despite the leadership......

    Loyalty is loyalty.......things will turn back in our favour....BoJo is a knob, and Corbyn a clown..but we should still hold to our inner beliefs (even though me and thee are political foes)
    That supposes that our political parties really do have core beliefs and ideologies that cannot shift decisively over time to become unrecognisable from their former selves. Colour me skeptical.
    I think I am much closer politically to TSE than I am to Corbyn---but tribalism is tribalism....I'll still be voting next GE to anything but Tory..and doubtless TSE will vote for anything but Labour....
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495
    tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
    It's a bit like voting for Hitler in the Reichstag when you had failed to do so for Von Papen and Bruening!
    Why do you refer to Hitler so much. Strange obsession
    Isn't the whole Brexit debaclke simply a re-hash of WW2 memes.......
    Yes
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,368
    tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
    It's a bit like voting for Hitler in the Reichstag when you had failed to do so for Von Papen and Bruening!
    Why do you refer to Hitler so much. Strange obsession
    Isn't the whole Brexit debaclke simply a re-hash of WW2 memes.......
    For you, tyson, ze war is over!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    Turncoat! :angry:

  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    That Trump letter 😂😂😂
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    Londoners don't seem very keen on Boris, and though men are not broken out, comparing women with the overall numbers suggests that Boris continues to do a lot better with chaps than chapesses.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza.....
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Is there anything to the Buttigieg hype? Someone said he has good organisation in Iowa and oodles of cash, but is it working?

    He is 'Oxford-educated'
    Ah, he went to Oxford Brookes.
    Hey, nothing wrong with Oxford Brookes.

    My wife went there and has been happy on occasion to reply truthfully 'Oxford' when asked where she got her degree. :lol:
    That's a shocker.

    There are people who went to Oxford Brookes, who want to be thought of as having gone to Oxford Uni?

    "Look at me - I'm a highly educated practically stupid person from another planet."

    (Based on an entirely objective assessment of Oxford graduates who infest the media :-o )
    I take your point but I don't see Oxford Uni struggling to attract entrants.

    To be fair to Mrs P, she's only ever ommitted 'Brookes' on a couple of occasions under severe provocation.
    To be honest a lot of people think Brooke’s is a college of the so called oxford superior university so it isn’t a problem.
  • kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    Turncoat! :angry:

    Nah, I'm still quitting, everything Boris Johnson has done since I've quit has confirmed I did the right thing.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526
    Foxy said:

    tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I am surprised that Hoey voted against May's Deal. Why would Woodcock, Lewis or Champion be likely to support this Deal given that they failed to support May? They must despise Johnson much more.

    Last chance saloon (not really, but more believe that now) for a deal based exit vs no deal exit/even harder Tory exit or no exit. They have to dig deep and decide if however much they dislike Boris, do they think we should remain, which is what every option bar voting for the Tories will in effect seek in a GE, or be happy with Boris having a blank cheque to go even harder (should he win that GE).
    It's a bit like voting for Hitler in the Reichstag when you had failed to do so for Von Papen and Bruening!
    Why do you refer to Hitler so much. Strange obsession
    Isn't the whole Brexit debaclke simply a re-hash of WW2 memes.......
    For you, tyson, ze war is over!
    I fucking hope not comrade Foxy.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza.....
  • Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    Yes - they thought they were big dogs.

    Turns out they were minnows.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 741
    TGOHF2 said:

    That Trump letter 😂😂😂

    Well he also said this today:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    Turncoat! :angry:

    Nah, I'm still quitting, everything Boris Johnson has done since I've quit has confirmed I did the right thing.
    Yeah, Boris doubling the Tory vote is really not what the Tories need.....
  • CatMan said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    That Trump letter 😂😂😂

    Well he also said this today:
    That's Morris Dancer's levels of historical ignorance.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    I seriously doubt that you are indifferent on this outcome comrade...
    Nobody posting on this site is indifferent to the outcome of Brexit....and you've posted 555 times about something.....
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Louise Ellman MP has quit Labour
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    If there is a deal, the fact that the polls seem to show the country having started to swing decisively behind Johnson will have been crucial to getting it.

    History will judge the Benn Act to have been a monumental piece of self-harming folly. Its architects will not be looked kindly on by posterity...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    edited October 2019
    No reason to quit the party, John Woodcock stood for parliament as a Labour MP and won despite saying he could not back Corbyn as PM. Ok, admittedly his later leaving the party came as no surprise as a result, but apparently standing on such a platform is a ok.

    I don't know if Corbyn ever said such a thing about Blair.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 10,265
    edited October 2019
    The ambiguity in Johnson's Deal, I suspect, is in the FTA that's supposed to be fixed during the stand still transition. The. Johnson regime talk airily about a low obligation FTA being agreed within three months. The ERG like the sound of that. In practice any such deal will be high obligation, including level playing field commitments, and will take years to agree.

    We will either crash out to a No Deal, deferred only by a few months, in which case mainland UK will potentially be completely cut off from Northern Ireland, worse than the DUP's worst nightmares.

    Or we will be back to a multiyear Brexit limbo while nothing can be agreed.

    Or it's the Vassal State. That won't please the ERG faction.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    TGOHF2 said:

    That Trump letter 😂😂😂

    The man knows comedy. Shame about the power he has though.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    Louise Ellman MP has quit Labour

    Yet Cooper and Starmer continue to slither around in the swamp.
  • tyson said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    I seriously doubt that you are indifferent on this outcome comrade...
    Nobody posting on this site is indifferent to the outcome of Brexit....and you've posted 555 times about something.....

    I voted remain. I am indifferent to Brexit but firmly of the view that to row back on the outcome of the referendum would be much more damaging than to see it through.

    If you cant see that you cant see much (comrade)....
  • I'm now ready to campaign for Boris Johnson's deal.

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    :D
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495

    kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    Turncoat! :angry:

    Nah, I'm still quitting, everything Boris Johnson has done since I've quit has confirmed I did the right thing.
    Do an Ellman... you know you want to!
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza.....

    Sorry...I missed the last bit...".from 18-24 year olds."..the full sentence should have read..

    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza from 18-24 year olds......


    In the other side of the multi universe, Corbyn will not outpoll Boris on the total numbers.....and

    I think you are right on this one....Boris is nailed on for a majority..
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    Trumpton.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495
    tyson said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    I seriously doubt that you are indifferent on this outcome comrade...
    Nobody posting on this site is indifferent to the outcome of Brexit....and you've posted 555 times about something.....
    Pineapple on pizza???
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    FF43 said:

    The ambiguity in Johnson's Deal, I suspect, is in the FTA that's supposed to be fixed during the stand still transition. The. Johnson regime talk airily about a low obligation FTA being agreed within three months. The ERG like the sound of that. In practice any such deal will be high obligation, including level playing field commitments, and will take years to agree.

    We will either crash out to a No Deal, deferred only by a few months, in which case mainland UK will potentially be completely cut off from Northern Ireland, worse than the DUP's worst nightmares.

    Or we will be back to a multiyear Brexit limbo while nothing can be agreed.

    Or it's the Vassal State. That won't please the ERG faction.

    I’ll take the Vassal in the vessel with the brew that is true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    Interesting it is a statement and not the more common 'letter the to the leader' resignation.
  • Noo said:

    Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    :D
    Noo said:

    Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    :D
    How absolutely screamingly funny.

    You should be on the stage...
  • HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza.....
    Yet another outlier :lol:
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,311

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    If there is a deal, the fact that the polls seem to show the country having started to swing decisively behind Johnson will have been crucial to getting it.

    History will judge the Benn Act to have been a monumental piece of self-harming folly. Its architects will not be looked kindly on by posterity...
    Clearly the Benn Act has done what it intended to do .

    It’s only after that Bozo even got serious about doing a deal because he’s so terrified of an extension. And how can passing something to stop the self harming act of no deal be a folly .

    MPs did the right thing , I’m happy if there’s a deal , as a Remainer I can live with that but no deal absolutely not .

  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526

    tyson said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    I seriously doubt that you are indifferent on this outcome comrade...
    Nobody posting on this site is indifferent to the outcome of Brexit....and you've posted 555 times about something.....

    I voted remain. I am indifferent to Brexit but firmly of the view that to row back on the outcome of the referendum would be much more damaging than to see it through.

    If you cant see that you cant see much (comrade)....
    That's not being indifferent comrade....you are on the same side as HyFud
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,311
    Alberto nardelli on twitter looks to have what the deal looks like . The Consent mechanism looks fair unless you’re the DUP who wanted to have a veto .
  • nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    If there is a deal, the fact that the polls seem to show the country having started to swing decisively behind Johnson will have been crucial to getting it.

    History will judge the Benn Act to have been a monumental piece of self-harming folly. Its architects will not be looked kindly on by posterity...
    Clearly the Benn Act has done what it intended to do .

    It’s only after that Bozo even got serious about doing a deal because he’s so terrified of an extension. And how can passing something to stop the self harming act of no deal be a folly .

    MPs did the right thing , I’m happy if there’s a deal , as a Remainer I can live with that but no deal absolutely not .

    It has undermined the UK negotiating position and given a significant negotiating advantage to the EU.

    But then you probably think patriots are "racist nationalists"..
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    Yes - they thought they were big dogs.

    Turns out they were minnows.
    No they were last vestiges of a moral believable Conservative party that appealed to a broad spectrum of voters. If you haven’t got room for Hammond and Rudd but you can accommodate Mark Francois then you have no hope. Nasty party doesn’t even start to to sum it up
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,495
    FF43 said:

    The ambiguity in Johnson's Deal, I suspect, is in the FTA that's supposed to be fixed during the stand still transition. The. Johnson regime talk airily about a low obligation FTA being agreed within three months. The ERG like the sound of that. In practice any such deal will be high obligation, including level playing field commitments, and will take years to agree.

    We will either crash out to a No Deal, deferred only by a few months, in which case mainland UK will potentially be completely cut off from Northern Ireland, worse than the DUP's worst nightmares.

    Or we will be back to a multiyear Brexit limbo while nothing can be agreed.

    Or it's the Vassal State. That won't please the ERG faction.

    I am hoping for the Vassal State. It is almost Remaining and it counts a form of Leave so the Leavers can complain that they got what they voted for even though it is not what they wanted.

    The entertainment value of saying "But it only said 'Leave' on the ballot paper, not any particular type of Leave" and watching them fulminate away should provide years of fun.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,311

    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris now leads Corbyn with 18 to 24 year olds as preferred PM, big change from 2017

    In February 2017 Theresa May led Corbyn with this demographic.

    Four months later there was a general election which didn't bear that out.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/02/21/fifty-shades-of-grey-voters-corbyns-punishing-polling-with-older-voters/

    PS - So proud of the headline.
    May only led Corbyn by 1% with 18 to 24 year olds even then, Boris leads Corbyn by 3% with 18 to 24 year olds, so still a swing to Boris

    If there is a deal, the fact that the polls seem to show the country having started to swing decisively behind Johnson will have been crucial to getting it.

    History will judge the Benn Act to have been a monumental piece of self-harming folly. Its architects will not be looked kindly on by posterity...
    Clearly the Benn Act has done what it intended to do .

    It’s only after that Bozo even got serious about doing a deal because he’s so terrified of an extension. And how can passing something to stop the self harming act of no deal be a folly .

    MPs did the right thing , I’m happy if there’s a deal , as a Remainer I can live with that but no deal absolutely not .

    It has undermined the UK negotiating position and given a significant negotiating advantage to the EU.

    But then you probably think patriots are "racist nationalists"..
    It hasn’t the deal was always going to be what’s suggested , try that tweet on my post . Looks pretty fair to me .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197
    tyson said:


    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza.....

    Your faith in Labour's impersonation drive is ill-founded, friend.......
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,698
    nico67 said:

    Alberto nardelli on twitter looks to have what the deal looks like . The Consent mechanism looks fair unless you’re the DUP who wanted to have a veto .

    Unfortunately they hold the whip hand over Boris.

    Sort of. He doesn't mind if the DUP vote down the deal since he thinks he'll win an election, when it occurs, and wont need to deal with those twonks anymore.
  • kle4 said:

    I am so in favour of Boris Johnson's deal, it is anti working class, I'm going to rejoin the party now*.



    *Technically I'm still a member until next May.
    Eh? So did you not actually leave, you just are letting it lapse? And there won't be a next May, she was the one and only.
    I'm on an annual membership which runs out next May, my constituency chiefs said they wouldn't accept my resignation, because if they were toughing it out, then so should I.
    Turncoat! :angry:

    Nah, I'm still quitting, everything Boris Johnson has done since I've quit has confirmed I did the right thing.
    You made a grave error of judgement. Hopefully at some point you will recognise and reapply.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    Yes - they thought they were big dogs.

    Turns out they were minnows.
    No they were last vestiges of a moral believable Conservative party that appealed to a broad spectrum of voters. If you haven’t got room for Hammond and Rudd but you can accommodate Mark Francois then you have no hope. Nasty party doesn’t even start to to sum it up
    Hammond and Rudd believed in nothing - they had no vision other than managerial decline.

    They are more suited to running a quango or a small branch of Nat West.

    These are the quick wins of Brexit - clearing out these selfish wankers.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526
    Very

    tyson said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    I seriously doubt that you are indifferent on this outcome comrade...
    Nobody posting on this site is indifferent to the outcome of Brexit....and you've posted 555 times about something.....
    Pineapple on pizza???
    Very good...I'm off to walk Trotsky, take a camomile, and put on my headphones and tune into World Service- the perfect background noise for insomnia.....
  • TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    Yes - they thought they were big dogs.

    Turns out they were minnows.
    No they were last vestiges of a moral believable Conservative party that appealed to a broad spectrum of voters. If you haven’t got room for Hammond and Rudd but you can accommodate Mark Francois then you have no hope. Nasty party doesn’t even start to to sum it up
    Hammond and Rudd believed in nothing - they had no vision other than managerial decline.

    They are more suited to running a quango or a small branch of Nat West.

    These are the quick wins of Brexit - clearing out these selfish wankers.
    They are toast.

    Their grave error of judgement is both gratifying and hilarious.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526

    tyson said:


    Forgive me for my scepticism....but there is no way in a gazillion universes of infinitesimal lifetimes from multiverse parallel universes that Boris Johnson will secure more votes in a GE than Jezza.....

    Your faith in Labour's impersonation drive is ill-founded, friend.......
    I did mean to say amongst 18-24 year olds...

    Obviously Corbyn's Labour is going to get trounced at the next GE...but not by 18-24 year olds it ain't.....

    I'm off with Trotsky now for a walk....
  • spudgfsh said:

    Here's why Brexit needs to be cancelled, the French want us gone.

    Forgive my ignorance, I did German, what does it actually say?
    You (The UK) have to go now.
    Mais si tu dois partir, va-t'en
    Si non, tu dois rester la nuit
    Surely vous rather than tu? ;)
    So you're too young for Fairport Convention? Lucky you.
  • FF43 said:

    The ambiguity in Johnson's Deal, I suspect, is in the FTA that's supposed to be fixed during the stand still transition. The. Johnson regime talk airily about a low obligation FTA being agreed within three months. The ERG like the sound of that. In practice any such deal will be high obligation, including level playing field commitments, and will take years to agree.

    We will either crash out to a No Deal, deferred only by a few months, in which case mainland UK will potentially be completely cut off from Northern Ireland, worse than the DUP's worst nightmares.

    Or we will be back to a multiyear Brexit limbo while nothing can be agreed.

    Or it's the Vassal State. That won't please the ERG faction.

    I am hoping for the Vassal State. It is almost Remaining and it counts a form of Leave so the Leavers can complain that they got what they voted for even though it is not what they wanted.

    The entertainment value of saying "But it only said 'Leave' on the ballot paper, not any particular type of Leave" and watching them fulminate away should provide years of fun.
    Are you an irish nationalist?

    Just asking. Your avatar suggests you might be.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remain look to have been comprehensively outplayed. Personally i am indifferent to this wither way.

    But it is amusing to have seen Hammond, Stewart, Rudd et al to have thrown away political careers on the back of hubristic miscalculation.

    Yes - they thought they were big dogs.

    Turns out they were minnows.
    No they were last vestiges of a moral believable Conservative party that appealed to a broad spectrum of voters. If you haven’t got room for Hammond and Rudd but you can accommodate Mark Francois then you have no hope. Nasty party doesn’t even start to to sum it up
    Hammond and Rudd believed in nothing - they had no vision other than managerial decline.

    They are more suited to running a quango or a small branch of Nat West.

    These are the quick wins of Brexit - clearing out these selfish wankers.
    Leaving you with nobody who could run a piss up in a brewery.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    It looks like the DUP may still, sort of, retained a veto over the Northern Ireland arrangements continuing. I'm surprised that Ireland agreed to that. It makes it much more likely that the arrangements will come to an end, with the consequences for the border and the Irish economy that then entails.
  • So the deal is leaking. But who is leaking it ? And why ?
This discussion has been closed.