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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Ralllings and Thrasher May 2 projection: Interactive ch

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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,516



    And that's what we're now seeing - a political revolution on the political right.

    It's much, much to early to say that surely? So far we're not seeing the kind of Lab/SDP cross over that occured in the early 80's for Con/UKIP.

    All I'm seeing is a lot of people fed up with Cameron and the Tories having a mid term protest.

    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just don't see anything earth shattering going on?

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Dan Hannan speaking at the Freedom Association wake after Mrs Thatcher's funeral. Top stuff.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 33,401
    sam said:

    How does Ken Clarkes "UKIP hate foreigners" jibe sit alongside the fact Farage is married to and has two daughters by a German?

    Unless Farage hates his wife and kids

    That is a very fair point. It is similar to one I make to right-wingers who claim that left-wingers hate the British.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 26,823

    malcolmg said:

    YouGov - own supporters' rating:

    Net "well" (2010 vote)
    Cameron: +83 (+44)
    Miliband: +36 (+20)
    Clegg: +33 (-27)
    Farage: +86 (n/a)

    Meanwhile YouGov also have a poll the Scottish Separatists will want to dismiss:

    60% of Scots ‘unconvinced’ by Alex Salmond's case for independence

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/223096-60-of-scots-unconvinced-by-alex-salmonds-case-for-independence/

    Yawn yawn, your imbecilic hatred of Scotland spoils anything you post , get a life.
    I don't think Carlotta shows a hatred of Scotland anymore than the 60% of Scots in the poll do. Unionists do not hate Scotland, but prefer it to be part of the UK. Dislike of the SNP does not mean dislike of Scotland or Scots, just a different view of how Scotland should be.
    Well I disagree , her use of "separatists" in every post deliberately. Any intelligent adult would refrain from childish derogatory use of this and leave it to the imbeciles. I therefore treat with disdain any points she makes knowing there is no objectivity there just fixation. Even in Scotland you will find that only morons and biased unionist Labour has beens use the term.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013

    sam said:

    How does Ken Clarkes "UKIP hate foreigners" jibe sit alongside the fact Farage is married to and has two daughters by a German?

    Unless Farage hates his wife and kids

    That is a very fair point. It is similar to one I make to right-wingers who claim that left-wingers hate the British.
    It is credit to Farage that he rarely mentions it. Must be very tempting, but he has said in the past he doesnt want to use his wife to play politics.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-not-1531609

    Any apology for the misquote the other day?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    sam said:

    How does Ken Clarkes "UKIP hate foreigners" jibe sit alongside the fact Farage is married to and has two daughters by a German?

    Unless Farage hates his wife and kids

    That is a very fair point. It is similar to one I make to right-wingers who claim that left-wingers hate the British.
    This has caused my opinion of Ken Clarke to drop a lot actually. I'm sure some UKIP voters are racist. But Ken Clarke knows equally well that some Tory voters are racist, as are some Labour voters. It's a nasty, cynical smear.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    tim said:

    @sam

    Under Farage the number of immigrants doubled

    a woman from Latvia claimed she met him in a pub in Biggin Hill and then ended up back at her place having sex ‘at least seven times’.

    I wonder if he "racistly" considers his wife and daughters as immigrants?!

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,230
    edited April 2013


    Not sure I would want the support of people who clearly do not have the first idea about the way in which currency exchange works!!

    For the avoidance of doubt, my post wasn't made entirely in deadly seriousness. I'm pretty sure the HK exchange company is indulging in a spot of Gweilo nose-tweaking also.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Caroline Lucas on the Daily Politics claiming that people should look at UKIP's policies and then goes on to have a go at odds comments Kippers have made that aren't party policy.

    There is a very simple argument that anyone debating the Greens should use every time: the Greens want to end economic growth in the UK. They believe, as a country, we are being greedy if we want to increase average living standards any more, and that we shouldn't want the next generation to do any better than what we've already got.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2013
    @dr_spyn:
    Who won the 100 years war, and who came second?

    France won the 100 years war after Henry VI married a french princess. Henry was at times completely mad (bonkers!) and simply let the french boot the english out of their last bastions in northern France
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 16,300
    GIN1138 said:



    And that's what we're now seeing - a political revolution on the political right.

    It's much, much to early to say that surely? So far we're not seeing the kind of Lab/SDP cross over that occured in the early 80's for Con/UKIP.

    All I'm seeing is a lot of people fed up with Cameron and the Tories having a mid term protest.

    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just don't see anything earth shattering going on?

    A recurring feature has been the political establishment underestimating the level of disgruntlement with themselves.

    This disgruntlement is being driven by proceses outside their control - globalisation, increasing wealth divides, immigration etc. As these processes are not going to stop, let alone reverse, then the disgruntlement will continue to increase.

    When the Cameroon cheerleaders were having ecstasies about their hero's approval rate some of us pointed out that while the support might have been a mile wide it was only an inch deep.

    To throw in a couple of revolution similes:

    'Throw them some red meat' is the equivalent of 'let them eat cake' - the patronising dismissal of the 'lower orders'.

    The leader's 'addiction' to his 'evil genius' - Osborne being the 'evil genius', remembering that most evil geniuses are in reality little more than incompetant charlatans who got a lucky break.


  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @jameskirkup: RT @MichaelPDeacon: Highlight of the Ed Balls Day celebrations will be the ceremonial "Ed Balls" by his right-hand man @abelardinelli. That's live on BBC1 later
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    Morning :^ )

    Another thread that's about Kippers in the comments- crikey - its a DT readers' fest, how come we have so few on here?

    OT Just watching Rectify - its very good - a Sundance Prod series - about a Death Row inmate released due to DNA issues. Just six episodes in S1 but hopefully signed up for S2.

    Great line "Was that gallows humour? Yes. We called it lethal injection humour, but less funny..."

    PS Just seen The Politician's Husband from BBC4 - its a bit hammy and has Peter Mannion playing some henchman role which I can't quite grasp but worth a watch - it has potential.
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    edited April 2013
    MikeK said:

    @dr_spyn:
    Who won the 100 years war, and who came second?

    France won the 100 years war after Henry VI married a french princess. Henry was at times completely mad (bonkers!) and simply let the french boot the english out of their last bastions in northern France

    Not quite true as the English held on to Calais until the time of Mary Tudor. Don't you remember the "1066 And All That" line about Mary saying that when she died she would have "callous" engraved on her heart?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "...he then attacked them for their flat tax proposal. Highlighting this policy is, according to Liberal Democrat, research, the best way to deter people from shifting to UKIP. This explains why Nigel Farage is currently trying to dump it."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/04/nick-clegg-no-one-has-proposed-to-me-that-the-uk-should-leave-the-european-court-of-human-rights/
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Let's not hear it from the PB lefties that only the tories are smearing/dirty tricks against UKIP because they are worried,even labour supporting papers are now at it,labour worried ?

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/77283/the_observer_saturday_27th_april_2013.html
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SandraM said:

    MikeK said:

    @dr_spyn:
    Who won the 100 years war, and who came second?

    France won the 100 years war after Henry VI married a french princess. Henry was at times completely mad (bonkers!) and simply let the french boot the english out of their last bastions in northern France

    Not quite true as the English held on to Calais until the time of Mary Tudor. Don't you remember the "1066 And All That" line about Mary saying that when she died she would have "callous" engraved on her heart?
    Haha! I forgot about Callous. A tunnel goes underneath it now. ;)

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    ToryTreasury Galloway: "I regret the fact that he has not felt strong enough within the Labour Party to defend a meeting which he himself asked for."

    ToryTreasury "Mr Miliband said he wanted further meetings – but in a secret location so Labour MPs did not find out about it." dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2…
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    GuidoFawkes Observer article on UKIP describes financial backer Stuart Wheeler as an "investment banker". He was actually a bookmaker
  • I get the feeling people people are disillusioned with our mainstream politics.
    For all the tribal screaming and shouting on here, there's not a lot of difference between the main parties, none of them have any real idea how to get us moving forward, and none of them would do anything majorly different from the others.
    UKIP seem like something different, an alternative. I don't think they'll get any seats at a GE, but should garner support in the locals and Euros.
    There was a comment lower down about UKIP candidates having no experience of local government. I don't think that's a bad thing,.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    GuidoFawkes Observer article on UKIP describes financial backer Stuart Wheeler as an "investment banker". He was actually a bookmaker

    That's just splitting hairs.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    YouGov - own supporters' rating:

    Net "well" (2010 vote)
    Cameron: +83 (+44)
    Miliband: +36 (+20)
    Clegg: +33 (-27)
    Farage: +86 (n/a)

    Meanwhile YouGov also have a poll the Scottish Separatists will want to dismiss:

    60% of Scots ‘unconvinced’ by Alex Salmond's case for independence

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/223096-60-of-scots-unconvinced-by-alex-salmonds-case-for-independence/

    Yawn yawn, your imbecilic hatred of Scotland spoils anything you post , get a life.
    I don't think Carlotta shows a hatred of Scotland anymore than the 60% of Scots in the poll do. Unionists do not hate Scotland, but prefer it to be part of the UK. Dislike of the SNP does not mean dislike of Scotland or Scots, just a different view of how Scotland should be.
    Well I disagree , her use of "separatists" in every post deliberately. Any intelligent adult would refrain from childish derogatory use of this and leave it to the imbeciles. I therefore treat with disdain any points she makes knowing there is no objectivity there just fixation. Even in Scotland you will find that only morons and biased unionist Labour has beens use the term.
    The use of the terms imbeciles and morons by yourself is much more childish, and also shows a rather nasty streak of attitude to those with intellectual impairments. Seperatists is not the SNP preferred term, but it is facually correct in that the SNP does want seperation.

    Incidentally,I hope that Scotland does seperate in 2014; I think it would be better for both our countries. I think that after a period, Scotland would have a bright future, though the left wing inward looking policies would be destructive in the short term.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Ken Clarke coming out with the Cameron line on ukip,do the tories realise ,that line will just make those who are going to vote ukip,more determined to do so.

    IndyPolitics Ken Clarke attacks Ukip 'clowns' and claims some of their supporters are racist ind.pn/14ysCVU
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    stephentall From @libdemvoice > Former Lib Dem by-election candidate Elizabeth Shenton defects to Labour ow.ly/2wtY0k
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    patrickwintour MT @drwollastonmp:Not happy at Etonians "I'm not asked for policy advice, but just in case...there are other schools & some admit women".
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    VIDEO: UKIP blames 'dirty tricks' on paper claims http://bbc.in/ZVoszX

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22329377#
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    ShippersUnbound @oflynnexpress agreed, but that suggests Ken was following a Tory strategy. First time for everything I suppose!
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    oflynnexpress Amazing how easy Tories make it for opponents to caricature them as out-of-touch toffs dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315211/Richard-Benyon-British-richest-MP-lectured-families-food-waste-gives-bread-poor-window-manor.html

    Thick tories.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited April 2013
    Where's every one gone,I feel like a herd ;-)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SandraM said:

    Where I live in the Havant ward, there is an election for county council and district (latter caused by resignation). The five main parties are standing for both seats. So far I've had campaign leaflets from the Conservatives, Labour (county candidate only ) and Greens. The Green leaflet was impressive with lot of specific local detail criticising developments in greenfield sites and advocating more brownfield site development.
    This is a big issue where I live. I attended a parish council meeting last week and usually about 2 people turn up. This time there was about 50 and it got very heated.
    There are a lot of disaffected Conservatives; it's a question of whether they vote Green or UKIP.

    This is a very pertinent post by Sandra, and potentially quite an Elephant trap for some parties, particularly favouring lots of building of new houses. Those who oppose these developments are much more vocal and motivated. When Labour comes up with some definite plans and definite sites there will be quite a backlash. Nimbyism may not be nice but it is a powerful force.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    tim said:

    Neil said:

    GuidoFawkes Observer article on UKIP describes financial backer Stuart Wheeler as an "investment banker". He was actually a bookmaker



    That's just splitting hairs.
    I'd imagine bookmakers are a lot more popular.

    He was my old boss. I got a £2000 bonus while he gave £5mil to the Tories... not happy!

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 26,823

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    YouGov - own supporters' rating:

    Net "well" (2010 vote)
    Cameron: +83 (+44)
    Miliband: +36 (+20)
    Clegg: +33 (-27)
    Farage: +86 (n/a)

    Meanwhile YouGov also have a poll the Scottish Separatists will want to dismiss:

    60% of Scots ‘unconvinced’ by Alex Salmond's case for independence

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/223096-60-of-scots-unconvinced-by-alex-salmonds-case-for-independence/

    Yawn yawn, your imbecilic hatred of Scotland spoils anything you post , get a life.
    I don't think Carlotta shows a hatred of Scotland anymore than the 60% of Scots in the poll do. Unionists do not hate Scotland, but prefer it to be part of the UK. Dislike of the SNP does not mean dislike of Scotland or Scots, just a different view of how Scotland should be.
    Well I disagree , her use of "separatists" in every post deliberately. Any intelligent adult would refrain from childish derogatory use of this and leave it to the imbeciles. I therefore treat with disdain any points she makes knowing there is no objectivity there just fixation. Even in Scotland you will find that only morons and biased unionist Labour has beens use the term.
    The use of the terms imbeciles and morons by yourself is much more childish, and also shows a rather nasty streak of attitude to those with intellectual impairments. Seperatists is not the SNP preferred term, but it is facually correct in that the SNP does want seperation.

    Incidentally,I hope that Scotland does seperate in 2014; I think it would be better for both our countries. I think that after a period, Scotland would have a bright future, though the left wing inward looking policies would be destructive in the short term.

    Sorry to offend your tender sensitivities by using words from the English Dictionary to describe her actions , I forgot some people are so pc that we dare not use words without being labelled, when it suits. At least you are talking about the topic and highlighting positives and negatives as an intelligent adult would. Carlotta is exclusively negative , makes puerile use of "separatists" due to her dislike of Scotland and the SNP constantly. Therefore we can agree to disagree and I shall continue to feedback on her pathetic input in any way I think fit whether you like it or not.
  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    YouGov - own supporters' rating:

    Net "well" (2010 vote)
    Cameron: +83 (+44)
    Miliband: +36 (+20)
    Clegg: +33 (-27)
    Farage: +86 (n/a)

    Meanwhile YouGov also have a poll the Scottish Separatists will want to dismiss:

    60% of Scots ‘unconvinced’ by Alex Salmond's case for independence

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/223096-60-of-scots-unconvinced-by-alex-salmonds-case-for-independence/

    Yawn yawn, your imbecilic hatred of Scotland spoils anything you post , get a life.
    I don't think Carlotta shows a hatred of Scotland anymore than the 60% of Scots in the poll do. Unionists do not hate Scotland, but prefer it to be part of the UK. Dislike of the SNP does not mean dislike of Scotland or Scots, just a different view of how Scotland should be.
    Well I disagree , her use of "separatists" in every post deliberately. Any intelligent adult would refrain from childish derogatory use of this and leave it to the imbeciles. I therefore treat with disdain any points she makes knowing there is no objectivity there just fixation. Even in Scotland you will find that only morons and biased unionist Labour has beens use the term.
    The use of the terms imbeciles and morons by yourself is much more childish, and also shows a rather nasty streak of attitude to those with intellectual impairments. Seperatists is not the SNP preferred term, but it is facually correct in that the SNP does want seperation.

    Incidentally,I hope that Scotland does seperate in 2014; I think it would be better for both our countries. I think that after a period, Scotland would have a bright future, though the left wing inward looking policies would be destructive in the short term.

    Sorry to offend your tender sensitivities by using words from the English Dictionary to describe her actions , I forgot some people are so pc that we dare not use words without being labelled, when it suits. At least you are talking about the topic and highlighting positives and negatives as an intelligent adult would. Carlotta is exclusively negative , makes puerile use of "separatists" due to her dislike of Scotland and the SNP constantly. Therefore we can agree to disagree and I shall continue to feedback on her pathetic input in any way I think fit whether you like it or not.
    Malcolm,
    I tried to get Carlotta to understand that independence is not separation. Like teaching a chimp to drink PG Tips but I tried. She does it just to be a prat so let her. I will not call Cammie a fascist, Miliband a commie and Cleggie a nazi, as it woud be on a par in terms of stupidity with Carlotta. So not hatred, just sick of the patronising holier than thou crap.
    The poll was skewed by the question.
    I am sure if the poll had asked a different skewed question, The British pensions are 275 bill in the red thanks to Brown and Osborne. How will England and rUK pay for it without future oil revenues if Scotland leaves? then Carlotta with her knowledge of Scotland being so stratospheric would give us a magic answer.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Where's every one gone,I feel like a herd ;-)

    Well it is now the luncheon break that all good PBers still like to observe on Sunday. ;)

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    "I'd be happy to meet Michael Ashcroft over a pint to discuss why UKIP is here to stay."
    Nigel Farage (twitter)

    A pint of BITTER perhaps.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 26,823

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    YouGov - own supporters' rating:

    Net "well" (2010 vote)
    Cameron: +83 (+44)
    Miliband: +36 (+20)
    Clegg: +33 (-27)
    Farage: +86 (n/a)

    Meanwhile YouGov also have a poll the Scottish Separatists will want to dismiss:

    60% of Scots ‘unconvinced’ by Alex Salmond's case for independence

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/223096-60-of-scots-unconvinced-by-alex-salmonds-case-for-independence/

    Yawn yawn, your imbecilic hatred of Scotland spoils anything you post , get a life.
    I don't think Carlotta shows a hatred of Scotland anymore than the 60% of Scots in the poll do. Unionists do not hate Scotland, but prefer it to be part of the UK. Dislike of the SNP does not mean dislike of Scotland or Scots, just a different view of how Scotland should be.
    Well I disagree , her use of "separatists" in every post deliberately. Any intelligent adult would refrain from childish derogatory use of this and leave it to the imbeciles. I therefore treat with disdain any points she makes knowing there is no objectivity there just fixation. Even in Scotland you will find that only morons and biased unionist Labour has beens use the term.
    The use of the terms imbeciles and morons by yourself is much more childish, and also shows a rather nasty streak of attitude to those with intellectual impairments. Seperatists is not the SNP preferred term, but it is facually correct in that the SNP does want seperation.

    Incidentally,I hope that Scotland does seperate in 2014; I think it would be better for both our countries. I think that after a period, Scotland would have a bright future, though the left wing inward looking policies would be destructive in the short term.

    Sorry to offend your tender sensitivities by using words from the English Dictionary to describe her actions , I forgot some people are so pc that we dare not use words without being labelled, when it suits. At least you are talking about the topic and highlighting positives and negatives as an intelligent adult would. Carlotta is exclusively negative , makes puerile use of "separatists" due to her dislike of Scotland and the SNP constantly. Therefore we can agree to disagree and I shall continue to feedback on her pathetic input in any way I think fit whether you like it or not.
    Malcolm,
    I tried to get Carlotta to understand that independence is not separation. Like teaching a chimp to drink PG Tips but I tried. She does it just to be a prat so let her. I will not call Cammie a fascist, Miliband a commie and Cleggie a nazi, as it woud be on a par in terms of stupidity with Carlotta. So not hatred, just sick of the patronising holier than thou crap.
    The poll was skewed by the question.
    I am sure if the poll had asked a different skewed question, The British pensions are 275 bill in the red thanks to Brown and Osborne. How will England and rUK pay for it without future oil revenues if Scotland leaves? then Carlotta with her knowledge of Scotland being so stratospheric would give us a magic answer.

    Redcliffe, you are of course right and I should treat her with the contempt she deserves and ignore her. It is very obvious given who paid for the poll that it would be full of bias and generally toilet paper material. Have to say though they are certainly pushing out the negative scare stories recently and lots of people will be taken in by them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 26,823
    MikeK said:

    Where's every one gone,I feel like a herd ;-)

    Well it is now the luncheon break that all good PBers still like to observe on Sunday. ;)

    Some need to go and get their medication
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    NewStatesman Len McCluskey: "If Ed Miliband goes to the electorate with an austerity-lite programme, then he will get defeated.” ow.ly/kuQbz
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    sam said:

    tim said:

    Neil said:

    GuidoFawkes Observer article on UKIP describes financial backer Stuart Wheeler as an "investment banker". He was actually a bookmaker



    That's just splitting hairs.
    I'd imagine bookmakers are a lot more popular.

    He was my old boss. I got a £2000 bonus while he gave £5mil to the Tories... not happy!

    Why are you unhappy? Was it a donation from the company, or a personal donation from him?

    If the former, I can understand your being upset. If the latter, it's none of your business.

    If someone works hard, puts their financial security on the line, and makes themselves a great deal of money, then fair enough. I'm intensely relaxed about people making a profit from risk, especially when they employ people. If they want to donate from their personal wealth to a political party, then fair enough.

    In the process he employed you, along with many other people.

    It's like being upset that J.K. Rowling donated some of her personal wealth to the Labour Party. I don't care one bit: it's none of my business how she spends her money.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698
    edited April 2013
    @Tim. "Tory Backbenchers starting to make noises about the Etonian clique running their party"

    This is the Tories biggest Achilles heel and a serious opportunity for Labour to make their mark (what a shocking USP for the Tories to be landed with).

    The charge of cronyism and more importantly elitism is now unarguable. No wonder the racist fruitcakes from UKIP are able to run rings round them. This is labour's big chance to establish a USP. The Tories are making themselves look like a pastiche of everyone's idea of 'a Tory'.It's time for Labour to sell themselves as the everyman party
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036


    And that's what we're now seeing - a political revolution on the political right.

    It's very striking to consider this analysis against the background of the Tory splits in the 90s and the identity crisis which ultimately led to the election of Cameron. Ostensibly it was a fight over Europe which was conclusively won by the eurosceptics, so how do you explain the rise of UKIP?

    It cannot be explained as being driven by idealogical purity on the European question. The only explanation which holds water is that the party of plebeian leaders like Thatcher and Major is now completely irrelevant to the aspirational working class and seen as indistinguishable from Labour.

    I suspect Labours attacks on Etonians are helping UKIP enormously.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @JosiasJessop

    It's like being upset that J.K. Rowling donated some of her personal wealth to the Labour Party. I don't care one bit: it's none of my business how she spends her money.

    Is it true that Harry Potter is a secret UKIP member and is standing as a candidate for Hogwarts?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 20,913
    Roger said:

    @Tim. "Tory Backbenchers starting to make noises about the Etonian clique running their party"

    This is the Tories biggest Achilles heel and a serious opportunity for Labour to make their mark (what a shocking USP for the Tories to be landed with).

    The charge of cronyism and more importantly elitism is now unarguable. No wonder the racist fruitcakes from UKIP are able to run rings round them. This is labour's big chance to establish a USP. The Tories are making themselves look like a pastiche of everyone's idea of 'a Tory'.It's time for Labour to sell themselves as the everyman party

    I would agree Tim were it not for the fact that Miliband is viewed as just as elitist and privileged as Cameron, Osborne and Clegg.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 20,913
    Sorry I meant Roger not Tim.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036


    And that's what we're now seeing - a political revolution on the political right.

    It's very striking to consider this analysis against the background of the Tory splits in the 90s and the identity crisis which ultimately led to the election of Cameron. Ostensibly it was a fight over Europe which was conclusively won by the eurosceptics, so how do you explain the rise of UKIP?

    It cannot be explained as being driven by idealogical purity on the European question. The only explanation which holds water is that the party of plebeian leaders like Thatcher and Major is now completely irrelevant to the aspirational working class and seen as indistinguishable from Labour.

    I suspect Labours attacks on Etonians are helping UKIP enormously.
    The point being that it is now no longer the party of plebeian leaders but has once again reverted to the party of social and political elitism.
    Precisely. In retrospect the Tory wars were won not by the eurosceptics, but by the old school elite. They 'took their party back' after an aberrational period of economic liberalism. From the moment they pledged to match Labour's spending commitments this should have been obvious.

    There'd be no place for a working class revolutionary like Thatcher in the modern party. In that ssense Farage has a point.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    VIDEO: UKIP blames 'dirty tricks' on paper claims http://bbc.in/ZVoszX

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22329377#

    Mr Nuttall said UKIP have 27,000 members. Gaining 100 new members a day. (towards the end of the video)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    tim said:

    @Roger

    Besides a few jokes I think Labour should leave the class war to the people who do it best

    Tory backbenchers and the right wing press, it's far more damaging coming from them

    Patrick O'Flynn ‏@oflynnexpress 12m
    Sarah Wollaston MP really going for it on Cam's Etonian bias today.

    Patrick O'Flynn ‏@oflynnexpress 29m
    Amazing how easy Tories make it for opponents to caricature them as out-of-touch toffs http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315211/Richard-Benyon-British-richest-MP-lectured-families-food-waste-gives-bread-poor-window-manor.html

    And of course the fact that Cameron draws almost exclusively from a narrow social and political circle is a gift to UKIP

    Rob Ford ‏@robfordmancs 12m
    And those wondering why #UKIP anti-elite message so resonant may want to read this by Jesse Norman MP: http://m.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/27/jesse-norman-eton-school-uk-government

    Hmm, all well and good, but the thing that would give the bright average person a chance in life, would be the re-introduction of the Grammar School. This is one of the main UKIP planks on education. It should hang as an eternal shame around the necks of those socialists that scrapped the grammar, after getting a hand up by passing through their halls. May they rot in hell; especially Shirley Williams.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 20,913



    Precisely. In retrospect the Tory wars were won not by the eurosceptics, but by the old school elite. They 'took their party back' after an aberrational period of economic liberalism. From the moment they pledged to match Labour's spending commitments this should have been obvious.

    There'd be no place for a working class revolutionary like Thatcher in the modern party. In that sense Farage has a point.

    That was pretty much the point made by the 'Death of a Revolutionary' programme and one which I agree with entirely.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    I took part in the Better Together poll, and from what I recall there were voting intention questions for both Holyrood and Westminster. Have the results of those been published? I can't find them in the report Carlotta linked to, or on the (frankly dreadful) Better Together website. Why not? What have they got to hide? Hmmm? Hmmm?

    And they didn't even ask a straightforward question on voting intention for the referendum. Why not? Were they scared of what the answer might be? Hmmm? Hmmm?

    This has been a tribute post in the style of Carlotta Vance.
  • samsam Posts: 727

    sam said:

    tim said:

    Neil said:

    GuidoFawkes Observer article on UKIP describes financial backer Stuart Wheeler as an "investment banker". He was actually a bookmaker



    That's just splitting hairs.
    I'd imagine bookmakers are a lot more popular.

    He was my old boss. I got a £2000 bonus while he gave £5mil to the Tories... not happy!

    Why are you unhappy? Was it a donation from the company, or a personal donation from him?

    If the former, I can understand your being upset. If the latter, it's none of your business.

    If someone works hard, puts their financial security on the line, and makes themselves a great deal of money, then fair enough. I'm intensely relaxed about people making a profit from risk, especially when they employ people. If they want to donate from their personal wealth to a political party, then fair enough.

    In the process he employed you, along with many other people.

    It's like being upset that J.K. Rowling donated some of her personal wealth to the Labour Party. I don't care one bit: it's none of my business how she spends her money.
    Oh I was only joking! It was about 12 years ago, it was an easy joke to make at work when his donation was in all the papers

    It was a personal donation, I agree he can do what he wants with his dough

  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    @tim

    More Grammar schools means more places and so reduce the need for private tuition.

    If going to one of these super duper comps in London is the fall back for those who dont get in, wheres the problem?

    *we agreed to disagree on this I think sorry for responding
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This is a test post just to provide @JamesKelly to press the Disagree button ;^ )
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "If going to one of these super duper comps in London is the fall back for those who dont get in, wheres the problem?"

    Because comprehensives cease to be comprehensives in a two-tier system.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tykejohnno

    'NewStatesman Len McCluskey: "If Ed Miliband goes to the electorate with an austerity-lite programme, then he will get defeated.” ow.ly/kuQbz'

    Why's Ed so frightened to come up with a few policies apart from opposition to every cut and class warfare?
  • samsam Posts: 727

    "If going to one of these super duper comps in London is the fall back for those who dont get in, wheres the problem?"

    Because comprehensives cease to be comprehensives in a two-tier system.

    Technically you are right, but I thinkat the moment its a case of "all comprehensives are equal, but some comprehensives are more equal than others"
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,223
    My grammar was way oversubscribed, about eight to one. (It has a very strong academic reputation.) There were people who were privately tutored for the exam, but the cohort was not vastly distorted: in particular, I think 1% failed to make the AAABB GCSE grades required to move into the Sixth Form (so there were few who got in despite being worse than their peers). There was, however, only a small but non-negligible number on free school meals (about 2%). If you take into account that this school was in a county with only a handful of grammar schools - which ought to increase the "private tuition" effect - then overall I think its seriousness can be overplayed.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,349
    London Schools, challenge, read the research, improvements BINGO.

    @Tim must be on the payroll of the Institute of Re-Education.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    Michael Heaver ‏@Michael_Heaver 1h

    Proud to have a Party Leader who isn't stage-managed and shakes hands with people. Some of those people will be idiots. Real life.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 26,823
    Plato said:

    This is a test post just to provide @JamesKelly to press the Disagree button ;^ )

    Looks like James has foiled your cunning ( childish ) plan. Adults 1 children 0.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    tim said:

    @MikeK

    And Thatcher of course.

    Introducing a system so easily gamed by employing private coaches is the last thing the country needs"
    Go and read the research on Londond schools if you want to see how to improve education across all classes, and not just those who can afford to pay coaches.

    Yes Thatcher, to her shame also gave the grammar school short shrift. However tim, all schools employ coaches and many parents, those who care for their children's future, can and will employ private tutors. My own parents scrimped and saved to send and maintain my sister to the local grammar. They thought it worthwhile for their children to get the best education that they could afford.

    Unfortunately, many modern parents have been brought up to have everything on a plate without their own effort contributing to anything worthwhile.


  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    MikeK said:

    Hmm, all well and good, but the thing that would give the bright average person a chance in life, would be the re-introduction of the Grammar School. This is one of the main UKIP planks on education.

    If they want to maximize working class support on education Ukip should give discipline in schools equal billing. The key reason inner city schools don't teach anything is the classrooms are in a state of minor riot most of the time. Obviously you can't actually do anything to improve discipline in schools without breaking the back of 1968-er educational establishment but if grammar schools are the middle class keyword then discipline is the working class one - at least of those who might vote Ukip anyway.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    I wonder what happened about this

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    tim said:

    @drspyn

    You seen the massive Labour lead on health in todays poll?
    Seems your tactic of shouting "Stafford" every time the issue is raised isn't counteracting the breach of trust by "As a father" Cameron making and breaking personal promises on the NHS

    Yes Tim, it's good to see that your righteous indignation at the MMR scandal extends to the excess deaths and hideous occurrences at Stafford Hospital.

    Oh, hang on. It doesn't.

    Good to see you've got your priorities straight.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    tim said:

    @drspyn

    You seen the massive Labour lead on health in todays poll?
    Seems your tactic of shouting "Stafford" every time the issue is raised isn't counteracting the breach of trust by "As a father" Cameron making and breaking personal promises on the NHS

    You wouldn't want to be using one poll as confirmation of anything now would you tim? You know better than that... I think its better to wait for the next Mori or the Gold standard.

  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    sam said:

    How does Ken Clarkes "UKIP hate foreigners" jibe sit alongside the fact Farage is married to and has two daughters by a German?

    Unless Farage hates his wife and kids

    Is that a quote? From where?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    MrJones said:

    MikeK said:

    Hmm, all well and good, but the thing that would give the bright average person a chance in life, would be the re-introduction of the Grammar School. This is one of the main UKIP planks on education.

    If they want to maximize working class support on education Ukip should give discipline in schools equal billing. The key reason inner city schools don't teach anything is the classrooms are in a state of minor riot most of the time. Obviously you can't actually do anything to improve discipline in schools without breaking the back of 1968-er educational establishment but if grammar schools are the middle class keyword then discipline is the working class one - at least of those who might vote Ukip anyway.
    also, quoting myself

    There's no point in arguing over statistics cos the nomenklatura lie about everything but there's no need either - just say there's a problem with discipline in schools and it'll resonate with the people who actually went to those schools.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    YouGov Nigel Farage rated best leader out of top four parties - y-g.co/Ztocvx

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/04/26/farage-tops-leaders-poll/
  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    Millsy said:

    sam said:

    How does Ken Clarkes "UKIP hate foreigners" jibe sit alongside the fact Farage is married to and has two daughters by a German?

    Unless Farage hates his wife and kids

    Is that a quote? From where?
    Sorry it was a misquote! Im getting like Southam! (except I admit it & apologise)


    tim • Posts: 2,040

    10:13AM



    I see the Tories have inevitably sent out the few non public schoolboys this morning

    Ken Clarke on UKIP - "it’s against foreigners, it’s against immigrants but it doesn’t have any positive policies" #murnaghan


    Ken Clarke on UKIP: "A party of waifs and strays."

  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @OliverCooper: "Luke... I am Ed Balls." #EdBallsMovieQuotes
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    I do not understand Ken Clarke's comments.

    He is addressing people who are upset/annoyed at the Tories or other main parties, and then insulting them.

    Does he think that will make them come back?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    @JosiaJessop

    Feel free to repost your apology for your behaviour regarding Stafford.

    'My behaviour'? Yes, after the Francis report came out I apologised for having pinned (some) of the blame on Burnham. But even my criticisms of him were moderate, even before the report got published. Find any where I was not, or retract that comment.

    Apologies are good; all your comment above will do is prevent people from ever admitting they have been wrong on a particular subject because idiots will come along and bludgeon them over the head with the apology. You apologised to me once on a personal matter: I actually told others not to mention it again.

    I guess I shouldn't have.

    Still it's good to know that many deaths under a Labour government are fine in your eyes and unworthy of mention, but the MMR scandal is something you go on endlessly about because you think you can get some sick political capital out of it.

    You really are a (not printed as I don't want to get banned)

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 38,696

    This has been a tribute post in the style of Carlotta Vance.

    Amateur. At least YouGov put their numbers online - unlike your favourite pollster, PanelBase.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 38,696
    "CLAIMS that the UK would need Scotland to remain in a new “sterling zone” after independence have been dismissed by a series of independent economists."

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/sterling-zone-claims-dismissed-by-economists-1-2912335
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @JosiasJessop

    Time we had an apology from Labour for their NHS vandalism in Wales..
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    Time we had an apology from Labour for their NHS vandalism in Wales.

    (Corrected for you).
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Next said:

    I do not understand Ken Clarke's comments.

    He is addressing people who are upset/annoyed at the Tories or other main parties, and then insulting them.

    Does he think that will make them come back?

    If someone was Europhile first and Tory second then damaging Ukip would be more important than helping the Conservatives.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 17,873
    edited April 2013
    MikeK said:




    tim said:

    @MikeK

    And Thatcher of course.

    Introducing a system so easily gamed by employing private coaches is the last thing the country needs"
    Go and read the research on Londond schools if you want to see how to improve education across all classes, and not just those who can afford to pay coaches.

    Yes Thatcher, to her shame also gave the grammar school short shrift. However tim, all schools employ coaches and many parents, those who care for their children's future, can and will employ private tutors. My own parents scrimped and saved to send and maintain my sister to the local grammar. They thought it worthwhile for their children to get the best education that they could afford.

    Unfortunately, many modern parents have been brought up to have everything on a plate without their own effort contributing to anything worthwhile.


    My sister and I attended grammar schools in the 50's. Apart from the cost of the uniforms there was no charge on our parents. We even had free bus and train passes to get to and from. And no, we weren't "poor". Our parents were middle class; pharmacist, with own business, and teacher.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,912
    Next said:

    I do not understand Ken Clarke's comments.

    He is addressing people who are upset/annoyed at the Tories or other main parties, and then insulting them.

    Does he think that will make them come back?

    I think he knows if people do not like the Cameroons, he is not the person to woo them back, and as such is taking on a different role for the party, playing tough by ridiculing where they have gone to.

    He's also been in parliament for so long, with little chance of promotion from his current position given the current crop of Tory MPs, that he probably feels he can say whatever the hell he likes.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    tim said:

    roadto326 ‏@roadto326 1h
    A chart to show how much of their 2010 GE vote each party has lost to #UKIP over the last 2-3 years

    Do you know any more information about which polling company this is? Too lazy to look it up!

  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488


    And they didn't even ask a straightforward question on voting intention for the referendum. Why not? Were they scared of what the answer might be? Hmmm? Hmmm?

    What's the point paying for them to poll a question you know is going to be asked sooner or later anyway? You may as well pay to get more specific answers on questions that aren't regularly asked.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,230
    edited April 2013

    'a series of independent economists'

    That would be two independent economists, one of whom happens to be husband of Wendy Alexander, erstwhile leader of SLAB.

    I occasionally like a couple of boiled eggs for breakfast; henceforth they shall be known as a series of eggs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,912
    tim said:

    @RichardTyndall

    The polling shows Cameron is seen as much more "out of touch" than Miliband

    That's true, although it doesn't make Miliband appealing as a result, as he's still out of touch. Frankly I don't mind my leaders being out of touch so long as they can prove themselves competent at understanding and addressing everyday issues (to a certain degree of understanding, I'm not expectig miracles), though it is always amusing to see how self conscious about how not in touch they are leaders can be, or how cluelessly arrogant about how close they in fact are to being in touch.

    Please, no pasties jokes.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    tim said:

    @JosiasJessop

    You want to see Stafford and MMR as party issues, they really aren't.

    No. I see them as people issues. People suffered; people died, and may continue to die in the case of MMR.

    Members of my own family were (mis)treated at Stafford.

    As I said in a post earlier in the week, I would not be surprised if similar issues to Bristol / Stafford happen again under this government. That's hardly seeing it as a party-political issue. But it is annoying when people try to ridiculously downplay what happened because it does not fit in with their narrow world view.

    I've also heavily criticised this government's response to the Francis recommendations, and have said that it looks as though they are going to be swept under the carpet.

    It's you who sees these events through a red prism. Which is sad, really.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,912

    'a series of independent economists'

    That would be two independent economists, one of whom happens to be husband of Wendy Alexander, erstwhile leader of SLAB.

    I occasionally like a couple of boiled eggs for breakfast; henceforth they shall be known as a series of eggs.
    A fair point, it would seem. I trust the same exacting scrutiny of such blanket terms like 'series of' various experts are utilized when they support one's case too.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348
    Y0kel said:

    Completely O/T: Iranian elections.

    In the ongoing power struggle between President Ahmad dina..yeah that guy, and the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameni a bizarre rumour has emerged that the President has threatened to release a tape if his main sidekicks Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai isnt approved to stand in this summer's elections.

    Is this a tape of the Supreme leader phoning up a chat line, ordering the speeches of George W Bush online or insulting a doorman at the parliament?

    Nope, its evidence regarding the Presidents own disputed election victory in 2009 that suggests that he was mere millions of actual votes short of his officially reported tally in the election. Nobody is quite sure where the story came from, some believe its actually a totally fabricated plant by rivals to discredit the President and his faction.

    This is an extraordinarily bitter campaign of which this is just the most wild story so far but there are plenty of inflammatory comment and stories that are not far behind that makes our party political spats look like playground games between upper middle children and their equally upper middle class hangers on, which they largely are.

    Thanks for that. And don't apologise for it being off-topic: it's probably more on-topic and important than the things the rest of us are wittering on about!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,230
    kle4 said:


    A fair point, it would seem. I trust the same exacting scrutiny of such blanket terms like 'series of' various experts are utilized when they support one's case too.

    I fear it's rather more of a struggle finding the MSM using 'experts' to support the case I favour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,912
    Y0kel said:

    Completely O/T: Iranian elections.

    In the ongoing power struggle between President Ahmad dina..yeah that guy, and the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameni a bizarre rumour has emerged that the President has threatened to release a tape if his main sidekicks Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai isnt approved to stand in this summer's elections.

    Is this a tape of the Supreme leader phoning up a chat line, ordering the speeches of George W Bush online or insulting a doorman at the parliament?

    Nope, its evidence regarding the Presidents own disputed election victory in 2009 that suggests that he was mere millions of actual votes short of his officially reported tally in the election. Nobody is quite sure where the story came from, some believe its actually a totally fabricated plant by rivals to discredit the President and his faction.

    This is an extraordinarily bitter campaign of which this is just the most wild story so far but there are plenty of inflammatory comment and stories that are not far behind that makes our party political spats look like playground games between upper middle children and their equally upper middle class hangers on, which they largely are.

    Given how all powerful we're always told the Supreme Leader is in Iran, and even if that is largely still the case, the fact there are such bitter divisions and power struggles is really quite fascinating. Doesn't quite fit the narrative we might expect, but where there is power, there is reaction against that power I suppose.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 38,696
    Dan Hodges tweets:

    UKIP: "We are completely different to the other parties".

    Press: "Lot of loons in your ranks".

    UKIP: "We are just like the other parties'.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    kle4 said:

    Y0kel said:

    Completely O/T: Iranian elections.

    In the ongoing power struggle between President Ahmad dina..yeah that guy, and the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameni a bizarre rumour has emerged that the President has threatened to release a tape if his main sidekicks Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai isnt approved to stand in this summer's elections.

    Is this a tape of the Supreme leader phoning up a chat line, ordering the speeches of George W Bush online or insulting a doorman at the parliament?

    Nope, its evidence regarding the Presidents own disputed election victory in 2009 that suggests that he was mere millions of actual votes short of his officially reported tally in the election. Nobody is quite sure where the story came from, some believe its actually a totally fabricated plant by rivals to discredit the President and his faction.

    This is an extraordinarily bitter campaign of which this is just the most wild story so far but there are plenty of inflammatory comment and stories that are not far behind that makes our party political spats look like playground games between upper middle children and their equally upper middle class hangers on, which they largely are.

    Given how all powerful we're always told the Supreme Leader is in Iran, and even if that is largely still the case, the fact there are such bitter divisions and power struggles is really quite fascinating. Doesn't quite fit the narrative we might expect, but where there is power, there is reaction against that power I suppose.

    Ive been watching it since the turn of the year and it really is fascinating about how angry the campaigns are. A lot of people may consider the President a bit of a clown with all the clout held by a committee but he is not without his support and he is going down fighting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,912
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    @kle

    Of course that's the big issue.
    Cameron surrounds himself with an incompetent Etonian/Bullingdon male clique.
    If they appeared to know what they were doing it wouldn't matter as much

    The problem is I find Labour continually insisting only they understand people and care about people to be bloody irritating as well, as not everyone among the millions of people who voted Tory are wealthy or poor idiots, even if they only win in more affliuent places.

    On average, I would say the Tories are self conscious about the fact they are out of touch, and try to overcompensate as a result.

    On average, I would say Labour are not self conscious enough about the fact they are out of touch, and so too often don't realize how out of touch they are because they do not want to accept it as a possibility (as only Tories are out of touch, really, Labour just occasionally misread public mood, right?)

    ETA:
    On average I would say LDs tend more toward the Tory mould on out of touchness, given they also tend to represent areas which might make one think they have a greater chance of being out of touch.

    On average, I would say UKIP love to think of themselves as outsiders, and so are aggressively in touch, in their heads, which does sometimes actually make them out of touch as sometimes the political elites are also in touch with the people, and UKIP would not want that.

    On average, the Greens don't exist, so how out of touch they are is irrelevant.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Carlotta -

    "Amateur. At least YouGov put their numbers online - unlike your favourite pollster, PanelBase."

    What a stupid thing to say. To the best of my knowledge YouGov follow exactly the same procedure as Panelbase - they release the details of the questions that the client allows them to release.

    Are you saying you are confident that YouGov will publish the full results of that poll, including voting intention for Holyrood, first thing tomorrow morning? If they don't will you concede that you were wrong?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 52,926
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Very interesting post, Mr. Y0kel.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 38,696
    James - my attempts to find the data tables on the PanelBase website have come to nought - could you post a link please?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I think Labour will get 35% and UKIP 15%.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698
    edited April 2013
    @Klee4
    "On average, I would say the Tories are self conscious about the fact they are out of touch, and try to overcompensate as a result."

    Overcompensate for being out of touch by choosing half their staff from ex members of the Bullingdon Club? Is this post a spoof? Look at their latest recruit. He gives the word 'louche' a bad name

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/25/article-2314934-14056383000005DC-643_308x425.jpg
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2013
    Has anyone an explanation or a link to an explanation as to why the Lib Dems will have a NEV vote significantly higher than UKIP? It is what most expect, but I would be interested in the analysis of others.

    Is the R&T forecast based on much older by election data than the reality of recent months?
This discussion has been closed.