...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
It costs them precisely zero pounds now.
And the thick end of five hundred quid under Bozza's bonkers #NurseTax
Maajid Nawaz is on a roll over on Twitter. He has done a thread on Corbyn's support for Putin and Assad and how the "friends" comment about Hamas has rather more to it than simple politeness.
For some reason Vanilla is not allowing me to link to the Tweet. But easily searchable for anyone interested.
I am surpised the weather in the UK has not been made a theme today? Where are the pictures of Johnson wading through rivers with temporary medical supplies?
On the other hand I am in the canary islands, a splash of rain here has turned an arid desert into a greener oasis! Been on my own all week and thank my lucky stars the UK did not brexit as of yet as I have spoken to my folks everyday on the phone with no extra charges. The health insurance is very expensive for someone with my health condition if we brexit or not!
I have looked at PB but not commented this week but I take with interest those who scrapped Tory membership but now given the media onslaught have been conned into possible support for the Tories. This happened to me in 2017 but I am determined to vote LD unless things are so bad for Labour I have to vote for Barry Sheerman, I would rather not vote for Corbyn directly or indirectly but sometimes you have to do things you dont like...
True, and Labour have been slightly improving in the polls since then.
Plus the Corbynistas and Remainers have a big activist base and organization. I think both Lab and LD will overperform, especially given Tories are so triumphant, undisciplined and complacent.
This one is not.
I am still to be convinced of a Boris majority, as I said yesterday is 50/50 for me
It's interesting so many people are not convinced of a Tory majority despite the party having a lead of about 10 to 15% in most polls. It's understandable because of what happened last time.
My reservations are Boris. He will either win well or crater and I do not know which
Another effort like last night and it'll be crater. Even the Mail and Express won't be able to weasel it away. He's probably already toast in N Ireland, but unless the Alliance and SDLP win ten or so seats between them that won't matter much.
Incidentally, reviewing his performance last night, didn't he prom ice to give up alcohol during the campaign or until Brexit was done? Or something like that?
This is Boris Johnson. Bumbling buffoon is priced in.
Drunken bumbling buffoon? I wonder if he realises how lucky he is facing first Livingstone then Corbyn? A competent prosecuting solicitor would have him tied in verbal knots in no time.
A Leaders’ Question Time Special – Tory, Labour, SNP and Lib Dem – 22nd November A further 30-minute Question Time Specials – Farage and the Green Party
I think Nige versus Swampy will be good fun, but oh how the mighty have fallen.
The Scotland only part of the poll is a fairly standard result once you plug it into electoral calculus.
Tories -10 Lab -5 LD +1 SNP +14
Leave the Tories with WAK, DCT and BRS
I suspect in such a scenario WAK would fall as well.
Whicg is annoying as that would take the SNP to 51 seats and I'd loose my SNP under 50.5 bet which at the moment looks a sure thing.
Something about that doesn’t smell right.
Why would so many Tories move direct to SNP with the Sword of Damocles of independence being brazenly waved over their heads?
They are Tories but pro-independence? Presumably such a group exists?
Yes, but 10% of the Scottish electorate?
I’d have thought it’d be pretty niche.
I'd expect a significant proportion of Nat's to be fiscally and socially conservative. After all, before the SNP 'flowered' there was a substantial vote for a fiscally and socially Conservative party in Scotland.
Maajid Nawaz is on a roll over on Twitter. He has done a thread on Corbyn's support for Putin and Assad and how the "friends" comment about Hamas has rather more to it than simple politeness.
For some reason Vanilla is not allowing me to link to the Tweet. But easily searchable for anyone interested.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
Given that youre about to stop unimpeded free access for EU medical professionals, I should imagine that the answer is "no, you are not understanding correctly".
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
I read it as they will neglect skills and go for my wallet, which is probably more accurate.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
A Leaders’ Question Time Special – Tory, Labour, SNP and Lib Dem – 22nd November A further 30-minute Question Time Specials – Farage and the Green Party
I think Nige versus Swampy will be good fun, but oh how the mighty have fallen.
All of those QTs will be individual half-hours with each leader - Con/Lab/LD/SNP on day one, Farage and Greens on day two.
So Farage neither has to go up against "Swampy" - nor miss an opportunity to knock lumps out of Boris.
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
You've got to assume that based upon the dates of the yougov that Labour have seen a small uptick and BXP a small downturn given a lot of the polling took place when the October 31st Brexit date went out the window.
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
Maajid Nawaz is on a roll over on Twitter. He has done a thread on Corbyn's support for Putin and Assad and how the "friends" comment about Hamas has rather more to it than simple politeness.
For some reason Vanilla is not allowing me to link to the Tweet. But easily searchable for anyone interested.
Surgical in the precision of his arguments, devastating in its inevitable conclusion. Any one voting him for Prime Minister cannot credibly claim to be a progressive. Shame on Best for Britain and shame on Gina Miller.
A Leaders’ Question Time Special – Tory, Labour, SNP and Lib Dem – 22nd November A further 30-minute Question Time Specials – Farage and the Green Party
I think Nige versus Swampy will be good fun, but oh how the mighty have fallen.
All of those QTs will be individual half-hours with each leader - Con/Lab/LD/SNP on day one, Farage and Greens on day two.
So Farage neither has to go up against "Swampy" - nor miss an opportunity to knock lumps out of Boris.
Boris will be delighted he is the only pro Brexit voice on the show that most people watch
The House of Commons report on 'Overseas NHS Staff' (released Jul 19) shows:
153,000 staff report as being non-British nationals.
65,000 of that number are EU nationals.
Which by my reckoning means the new half price medical visa is going to be a huge net saving for those who want to come and work in our NHS based on historical inflows.
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
What difference for the LibDems?
No meaningful difference on my model. Bear in mind the UNS (or URS) calculations are only one input in my model, a pure URS model Vs UNS might show a different relative result.
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
What difference for the LibDems?
No meaningful difference on my model. Bear in mind the UNS (or URS) calculations are only one input in my model, a pure URS model Vs UNS might show a different relative result.
The House of Commons report on 'Overseas NHS Staff' (released Jul 19) shows:
153,000 staff report as being non-British nationals.
65,000 of that number are EU nationals.
Which by my reckoning means the new half price medical visa is going to be a huge net saving for those who want to come and work in our NHS based on historical inflows.
And those non-EU professionals typically come from much poorer backgrounds and so less able to gather the cash for a visa up-front. This is A Good Thing.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
Yes, it’s not clear why they have decided to advance the gifting to Joe Public this year.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
For cutting the price of a visa for the vast majority of incoming nurses? Or are you demanding cheaper visas for middle income Europeans than low income Africans and Asians?
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
I read it as they will neglect skills and go for my wallet, which is probably more accurate.
It’s interesting that rather than try to park yellow tanks on the blue Tory lawn they’ve instead gone for the old tired LD trick of “a penny on income tax for good cause X”.
I think they’ve rolled that out at every election since time immemorial.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
Yes, it’s not clear why they have decided to advance the gifting to Joe Public this year.
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
Good grief. Really? PR is getting an ever darker and more mysterious art. Also, shitpost is now a word?
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
For cutting the price of a visa for the vast majority of incoming nurses? Or are you demanding cheaper visas for middle income Europeans than low income Africans and Asians?
I see no good reason for imposing a visa cost of nearly £500 on nurses wishing to come and work here from the EU.
Nor do I see a good reason for encouraging the loss of nurses from much poorer countries than ours.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
The important thing about the "nurse tax" is the Tories need to decide whether to stick or twist on it early on. Sticking is probably the correct option even though it'll obviously be a slightly uncomfortable moment for whoever is being interviewed on it as it essentially levels the playing field for the rest of the world post Brexit.
In absolute terms its much much smaller than the "Dementia tax" and it won't affect directly anyone eligible to vote in the election (Though there will be indirect side effects).
Changing it then waving arms around in the air "Nothing has changed" is the error they need to avoid repeating here.
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
Good grief. Really? PR is getting an ever darker and more mysterious art. Also, shitpost is now a word?
It's been quite a discussion point on Twitter (popularised* last night on Brexitcast by Laura K bleeping it with her truck horn!). The Tories did quite a lot of nonsense in Comic Sans which looked like it had been made in MS Word before the election was called.
(* OK - as much as a BBC Sounds podcast/BBC One late night show is gonna popularise anything )
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
I read it as they will neglect skills and go for my wallet, which is probably more accurate.
It’s interesting that rather than try to park yellow tanks on the blue Tory lawn they’ve instead gone for the old tired LD trick of “a penny on income tax for good cause X”.
I think they’ve rolled that out at every election since time immemorial.
First of all CR, I am on a mobile and I accidently knocked the dissaprove button! Sorry about that! Not meant at all.
With reference to the penny on income tax, this should be alarming for the Tories as it means the electorate is bored of austerity and spending is key (private polling must show the age of austerity has to go). Maybe this has driven BJ's sudden spendthrift tendencies?
The Scotland only part of the poll is a fairly standard result once you plug it into electoral calculus.
Tories -10 Lab -5 LD +1 SNP +14
Leave the Tories with WAK, DCT and BRS
I suspect in such a scenario WAK would fall as well.
Whicg is annoying as that would take the SNP to 51 seats and I'd loose my SNP under 50.5 bet which at the moment looks a sure thing.
Something about that doesn’t smell right.
Why would so many Tories move direct to SNP with the Sword of Damocles of independence being brazenly waved over their heads?
Easy: Churn. The tories now answering don't know, meanwhile enough don't knows from last time now saying SNP.
Yes, could be.
It probably doesn’t help that the Tories in Scotland are currently leaderless/rudderless and that Ruth Davison’s reservations about Boris Johnson are very well
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
10 seats here or there will be crucial.
Which regions are the best for Tories given the differential swings?
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
Who knows? I don't think that coming out with policies which focus on making it more expensive for the NHS to get nurses is particularly sensible. Nor is it sensible to look as if you're being horrible to EU citizens.
Is there really a surfeit of Canadian and Australian nurses desperate to come and work in the NHS?
There is a great pool of medical talent right on our doorstep and the government is proposing to make it much more expensive for them to come and work here. "Encouraging the brightest and the best" my arse!
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
Good grief. Really? PR is getting an ever darker and more mysterious art. Also, shitpost is now a word?
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
Correct, those that it effects cant vote.
But their friends, husbands, wives, colleagues can. And some, believe it or not, may have dual citizenship and be able to vote.
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
10 seats here or there will be crucial.
Which regions are the best for Tories given the differential swings?
This election is in effect going to be determined by around 120 by elections within this GE which is why it's so difficult to call.
The regional variation in the Yougov polling is helpful to the Tories and unhelpful to Labour by a net 10 seats or so in my calculations (ie increases Tory majority by around 20 seats). This is based on applying relative regional swings around the English average rather than taking the swings in the poll as given in absolute terms.
10 seats here or there will be crucial.
Which regions are the best for Tories given the differential swings?
Yes, in my projection it is the difference between a small Conservative majority and a hung parliament. I have not tallied the effect by region but my impression is that it is as expected - helpful to the Tories in the marginals-rich NW and Midlands and a bit helpful to Labour in the SE.
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
I read it as they will neglect skills and go for my wallet, which is probably more accurate.
It’s interesting that rather than try to park yellow tanks on the blue Tory lawn they’ve instead gone for the old tired LD trick of “a penny on income tax for good cause X”.
I think they’ve rolled that out at every election since time immemorial.
First of all CR, I am on a mobile and I accidently knocked the dissaprove button! Sorry about that! Not meant at all.
With reference to the penny on income tax, this should be alarming for the Tories as it means the electorate is bored of austerity and spending is key (private polling must show the age of austerity has to go). Maybe this has driven BJ's sudden spendthrift tendencies?
No worries.
I think most of the time on here when the ‘off-topic’ button is pushed it’s done by accident when we mean to push ‘like’.
Except if you’re Sunil. Who, bless him, socially self-aware chap that he is, usually earns his flags and off-topics.
The House of Commons report on 'Overseas NHS Staff' (released Jul 19) shows:
153,000 staff report as being non-British nationals.
65,000 of that number are EU nationals.
Which by my reckoning means the new half price medical visa is going to be a huge net saving for those who want to come and work in our NHS based on historical inflows.
How much DOES a Filapina nurse have to pay for a visa at the moment?
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
Who knows? I don't think that coming out with policies which focus on making it more expensive for the NHS to get nurses is particularly sensible. Nor is it sensible to look as if you're being horrible to EU citizens.
Is there really a surfeit of Canadian and Australian nurses desperate to come and work in the NHS?
There is a great pool of medical talent right on our doorstep and the government is proposing to make it much more expensive for them to come and work here. "Encouraging the brightest and the best" my arse!
It lowers the barriers for many more, so I expect the net effect to be small.
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
They probably can't even use the word "effect" grammatically.
My dad told me the difference grammatically between effect and affect just before his death! It was only this year and I thank him for his understanding of my gramatically shortcomings! He is someone I miss very much and I would holiday with him in the canaries a couple of times a year! I am reminded of him and his eccentricities, every day I am here! But life goes on and I can do things like perving at the women on beeches without reprimand!
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
The important thing about the "nurse tax" is the Tories need to decide whether to stick or twist on it early on. Sticking is probably the correct option even though it'll obviously be a slightly uncomfortable moment for whoever is being interviewed on it as it essentially levels the playing field for the rest of the world post Brexit.
In absolute terms its much much smaller than the "Dementia tax" and it won't affect directly anyone eligible to vote in the election (Though there will be indirect side effects).
Changing it then waving arms around in the air "Nothing has changed" is the error they need to avoid repeating here.
Yeah. I'd have thought that "no longer prioritising white Europeans over hard-working Commonwealth citizens" is a reasonable blunting of the attack on that. And hard for Lab/LD to push against.
They probably can't even use the word "effect" grammatically.
My dad told me the difference grammatically between effect and affect just before his death! It was only this year and I thank him for his understanding of my gramatically shortcomings! He is someone I miss very much and I would holiday with him in the canaries a couple of times a year! I am reminded of him and his eccentricities, every day I am here! But life goes on and I can do things like perving at the women on beeches without reprimand!
I've put the YouGov regional survey numbers through Flavible's regional seat calculator, which is the best one available in my opinion. Interesting that the Tories lose seats in the SE and SW (as well as Scotland).
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
It's the same on a £100 bonus, but more important is the distortion of rational financial decision making. You get similar effects at the lower income scale, and at £100K. It's completely mad: the marginal rate of tax is largely random.
They probably can't even use the word "effect" grammatically.
My dad told me the difference grammatically between effect and affect just before his death! It was only this year and I thank him for his understanding of my gramatically shortcomings! He is someone I miss very much and I would holiday with him in the canaries a couple of times a year! I am reminded of him and his eccentricities, every day I am here! But life goes on and I can do things like perving at the women on beeches without reprimand!
Women up trees? Kinky.
Sorry, Missing the a in beaches! I have seen some sights this week! Really enjoyed myself!
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
Correct, those that it effects cant vote.
But their friends, husbands, wives, colleagues can. And some, believe it or not, may have dual citizenship and be able to vote.
But if they have dual citizenship then surely they just need to apply for an NI number to work. Why wod they have to pay that extra charge/tax
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
I read it as they will neglect skills and go for my wallet, which is probably more accurate.
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
It's the same on a £100 bonus, but more important is the distortion of rational financial decision making. You get similar effects at the lower income scale, and at £100K. It's completely mad: the marginal rate of tax is largely random.
Fair enough, but the spin will all be about reducing fatcat bonuses etc.
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
It's the same on a £100 bonus.
Everywhere I've worked has paid bonuses net of tax. So, here's a £500 bonus and we'll gross it up so that you all receive the same after tax regardless of your tax rate.
Of course, if the tax was lower it would cost less for the employer, but the employee doesn't necessarily see that their bonus would have been £1500 if not for tax.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
Correct, those that it effects cant vote.
But their friends, husbands, wives, colleagues can. And some, believe it or not, may have dual citizenship and be able to vote.
But if they have dual citizenship then surely they just need to apply for an NI number to work. Why wod they have to pay that extra charge/tax
And if they are already in the country won't they already have a visa?
The important thing about the "nurse tax" is the Tories need to decide whether to stick or twist on it early on. Sticking is probably the correct option even though it'll obviously be a slightly uncomfortable moment for whoever is being interviewed on it as it essentially levels the playing field for the rest of the world post Brexit.
In absolute terms its much much smaller than the "Dementia tax" and it won't affect directly anyone eligible to vote in the election (Though there will be indirect side effects).
Changing it then waving arms around in the air "Nothing has changed" is the error they need to avoid repeating here.
Yeah. I'd have thought that "no longer prioritising white Europeans over hard-working Commonwealth citizens" is a reasonable blunting of the attack on that. And hard for Lab/LD to push against.
That may well be true.
But let me ask you this: do you think that many of the people who voted for Brexit were keen to have lots more migration from non-white countries? Will they be super-happy if, say, lots of Turkish and Syrian and Somali nurses arrived? Because I'm guessing that those posters about dark-skinned people from Turkey and Syria coming into the country were not chosen and used by accident.
I've put the YouGov regional survey numbers through Flavible's regional seat calculator, which is the best one available in my opinion. Interesting that the Tories lose seats in the SE and SW (as well as Scotland).
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
It's the same on a £100 bonus, but more important is the distortion of rational financial decision making. You get similar effects at the lower income scale, and at £100K. It's completely mad: the marginal rate of tax is largely random.
Fair enough, but the spin will all be about reducing fatcat bonuses etc.
The tax issue isn't specific to bonuses though. It is the interaction of the benefits system and tax bands that causes the problem, and it is the lower paid with children who get hit with it. Instead of thinking on terms of bonus, think in terms of a nurse working extra shifts for holiday money.
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
It's the same on a £100 bonus.
Everywhere I've worked has paid bonuses net of tax. So, here's a £500 bonus and we'll gross it up so that you all receive the same after tax regardless of your tax rate.
Of course, if the tax was lower it would cost less for the employer, but the employee doesn't necessarily see that their bonus would have been £1500 if not for tax.
Sure, but the employer does. We will always look at the real picture when making decisions like this.
I've put the YouGov regional survey numbers through Flavible's regional seat calculator, which is the best one available in my opinion. Interesting that the Tories lose seats in the SE and SW (as well as Scotland).
You've got Weaver Vale in 2x. Really interesting though. I expect the Tories to do better in Scotland than that. Labour are in serious danger of not only losing this election but the next one.
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
I read it as they will neglect skills and go for my wallet, which is probably more accurate.
It’s interesting that rather than try to park yellow tanks on the blue Tory lawn they’ve instead gone for the old tired LD trick of “a penny on income tax for good cause X”.
I think they’ve rolled that out at every election since time immemorial.
First of all CR, I am on a mobile and I accidently knocked the dissaprove button! Sorry about that! Not meant at all.
With reference to the penny on income tax, this should be alarming for the Tories as it means the electorate is bored of austerity and spending is key (private polling must show the age of austerity has to go). Maybe this has driven BJ's sudden spendthrift tendencies?
No worries.
I think most of the time on here when the ‘off-topic’ button is pushed it’s done by accident when we mean to push ‘like’.
Except if you’re Sunil. Who, bless him, socially self-aware chap that he is, usually earns his flags and off-topics.
I received an off-topic flag for one of my only on topic comments of the day recently. I had assumed it was a sarcastic flag, rather than accidental.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
I don’t think this will cut through in quite the same way.
Correct, those that it effects cant vote.
But their friends, husbands, wives, colleagues can. And some, believe it or not, may have dual citizenship and be able to vote.
But if they have dual citizenship then surely they just need to apply for an NI number to work. Why wod they have to pay that extra charge/tax
They may have arrived here, worked, got citizenship. They will have a vote. They may not feel best pleased at such a policy because of its effect on, say, younger family members wanting to come here to do the same. And they may feel, I dunno, that it is all part of a generally unwelcoming attitude.
The important thing about the "nurse tax" is the Tories need to decide whether to stick or twist on it early on. Sticking is probably the correct option even though it'll obviously be a slightly uncomfortable moment for whoever is being interviewed on it as it essentially levels the playing field for the rest of the world post Brexit.
In absolute terms its much much smaller than the "Dementia tax" and it won't affect directly anyone eligible to vote in the election (Though there will be indirect side effects).
Changing it then waving arms around in the air "Nothing has changed" is the error they need to avoid repeating here.
Yeah. I'd have thought that "no longer prioritising white Europeans over hard-working Commonwealth citizens" is a reasonable blunting of the attack on that. And hard for Lab/LD to push against.
That may well be true.
But let me ask you this: do you think that many of the people who voted for Brexit were keen to have lots more migration from non-white countries? Will they be super-happy if, say, lots of Turkish and Syrian and Somali nurses arrived? Because I'm guessing that those posters about dark-skinned people from Turkey and Syria coming into the country were not chosen and used by accident.
I don't think that justifies an immigration system that discriminates against predominantly non-white countries. Many people want more limited immigration in general, and neither party seems to be keen on doing that.
I think that’s what Laura Kuenssberg calls ‘shitposting’.
It’s almost certainly a deliberate shitpost.
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
According to the Guardian, the Tories' use of comic sans in their campaign slogan was an effort at shitposting. I couldn't think why on earth they had gone with such horrible graphics (I mentioned how horrible it looked yesterday) but apparently it is part of a 'boomer memes' strategy that worked well in Australia. Meanwhile, Johnson is yet to submit himself to press scrutiny. Welcome to modern political campaigning.
I've put the YouGov regional survey numbers through Flavible's regional seat calculator, which is the best one available in my opinion. Interesting that the Tories lose seats in the SE and SW (as well as Scotland).
You've got Weaver Vale in 2x. Really interesting though. I expect the Tories to do better in Scotland than that. Labour are in serious danger of not only losing this election but the next one.
I've put the YouGov regional survey numbers through Flavible's regional seat calculator, which is the best one available in my opinion. Interesting that the Tories lose seats in the SE and SW (as well as Scotland).
You've got Weaver Vale in 2x. Really interesting though. I expect the Tories to do better in Scotland than that. Labour are in serious danger of not only losing this election but the next one.
Thanks. The numbers are right, it was a case of finding which seats had changed hands afterwards.
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Over-taxation of £10k bonuses is unlikely to garner that much sympathy
It's the same on a £100 bonus.
Everywhere I've worked has paid bonuses net of tax. So, here's a £500 bonus and we'll gross it up so that you all receive the same after tax regardless of your tax rate.
Of course, if the tax was lower it would cost less for the employer, but the employee doesn't necessarily see that their bonus would have been £1500 if not for tax.
Sure, but the employer does. We will always look at the real picture when making decisions like this.
Our tax system desperately requires another Lawson committed to simplification and efficiency. But with both the main parties promising to spend money on pretty much everything it seems inevitable that the overall tax burden is going to increase regardless of the result making sensible reform much more difficult.
I've put the YouGov regional survey numbers through Flavible's regional seat calculator, which is the best one available in my opinion. Interesting that the Tories lose seats in the SE and SW (as well as Scotland).
Talking of tax rates, I've just been looking at the tax someone would pay on a Xmas bonus. As I've complained before, at some points in the income scale the tax rates are horrendous. For example, at £50K salary, for someone with two children, the true marginal tax rate on a bonus is 64.7%.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788 Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200 Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
Indeed. This is of far greater interest to me than moving the marginal tax rates bands for 20p or 40p up or down.
I’m also now experiencing the joys of having my personal allowance withdrawn as I will now get over £100k nominally in the year (with gross rental income on my old property) - so a marginal rate of 60% on anything over that.
Does it have an affect on me and my view of my career and my work?
Yes, it does. I’m far less interested in working more to get a salary rise or promotion now, unless it’s a very big jump to £140-150k and straight up to Director level.
Otherwise, I’ll spend the time with my family and taking it steady.
The important thing about the "nurse tax" is the Tories need to decide whether to stick or twist on it early on. Sticking is probably the correct option even though it'll obviously be a slightly uncomfortable moment for whoever is being interviewed on it as it essentially levels the playing field for the rest of the world post Brexit.
In absolute terms its much much smaller than the "Dementia tax" and it won't affect directly anyone eligible to vote in the election (Though there will be indirect side effects).
Changing it then waving arms around in the air "Nothing has changed" is the error they need to avoid repeating here.
Yeah. I'd have thought that "no longer prioritising white Europeans over hard-working Commonwealth citizens" is a reasonable blunting of the attack on that. And hard for Lab/LD to push against.
That may well be true.
But let me ask you this: do you think that many of the people who voted for Brexit were keen to have lots more migration from non-white countries? Will they be super-happy if, say, lots of Turkish and Syrian and Somali nurses arrived? Because I'm guessing that those posters about dark-skinned people from Turkey and Syria coming into the country were not chosen and used by accident.
I don't think that justifies an immigration system that discriminates against predominantly non-white countries. Many people want more limited immigration in general, and neither party seems to be keen on doing that.
The point is that many of the voters the Tories are going for are voters who voted for Brexit because they wanted fewer immigrants and, some of them, fewer non-white immigrants.
They may - and probably will - get the opposite of what they voted for. What might the political consequences of this be for the Tories is what I am interested in.
...The Conservatives have unveiled plans for a new “NHS visa” with the aim of making it quicker, easier and cheaper for foreign nurses to work in the UK...
Am I understanding correctly that the Conservatives are proposing fast-tracking for medical professionals AND making it cheaper than it used to be?
More expensive for Portuguese nurses but much cheaper for Canadian or Philippino ones.
One has to admire the Tories. 2 years ago we had to wait for the manifesto before learning of the dementia tax. This time they're giving it to us in advance. It is awfully kind of them.
For cutting the price of a visa for the vast majority of incoming nurses? Or are you demanding cheaper visas for middle income Europeans than low income Africans and Asians?
I see no good reason for imposing a visa cost of nearly £500 on nurses wishing to come and work here from the EU.
Nor do I see a good reason for encouraging the loss of nurses from much poorer countries than ours.
Didn't a review of medical mistakes find most were committed by health workers from outside the UK?
Comments
Much faster processing AND half the price it was.
And the thick end of five hundred quid under Bozza's bonkers #NurseTax
Let’s make lots of money.
1. Most English regions show a fairly consistent pattern compared with GE2017:
- Con down 6% to 10%
- Lab down 16% to 20%
- LD up 10% to 12%
- BXP up 10% to 12% on UKIP's performance
2. Labour are doing worse than par in the NE, but have fallen a bit less relatively in the SE and SW (but from a low base, so you'd expect that).
3. Conversely Con doing rather well in the NE
4. The LibDems are doing a bit less well than par in the SW (+6%), which might be a bit of a problem because they have some plausible targets there.
5. London changes are not too dissimilar to the English regions (-4% Con, -16% Lab, +10% LD, but only +5% BXP)
6. Scotland shows, as expected, a swing to the SNP from Con, and a bigger one from Lab, but LDs are up 5%, the same as the SNP increase.
7. Wales broadly similar to England for the main parties.
For some reason Vanilla is not allowing me to link to the Tweet. But easily searchable for anyone interested.
I’d have thought it’d be pretty niche.
Especially if you still think a referendum would be defeated, a remainer-unionist might take a punt on Sturgeon sticking it to yer man in Westminster.
I am surpised the weather in the UK has not been made a theme today? Where are the pictures of Johnson wading through rivers with temporary medical supplies?
On the other hand I am in the canary islands, a splash of rain here has turned an arid desert into a greener oasis! Been on my own all week and thank my lucky stars the UK did not brexit as of yet as I have spoken to my folks everyday on the phone with no extra charges. The health insurance is very expensive for someone with my health condition if we brexit or not!
I have looked at PB but not commented this week but I take with interest those who scrapped Tory membership but now given the media onslaught have been conned into possible support for the Tories. This happened to me in 2017 but I am determined to vote LD unless things are so bad for Labour I have to vote for Barry Sheerman, I would rather not vote for Corbyn directly or indirectly but sometimes you have to do things you dont like...
A Leaders’ Question Time Special – Tory, Labour, SNP and Lib Dem – 22nd November
A further 30-minute Question Time Specials – Farage and the Green Party
I think Nige versus Swampy will be good fun, but oh how the mighty have fallen.
https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1192808736232034306
In trying to get it to go viral (via this method) the LDs want to subliminally communicate to voters that they will invest in skills and be good for your wallets.
So Farage neither has to go up against "Swampy" - nor miss an opportunity to knock lumps out of Boris.
One for the Communists there.
Some of the surveys started on the 17th October and finished on the 28th October. That’s really far too old to show an accurate current picture .
I’ve no doubt Labour are doing badly but we need to see up to date polling .
153,000 staff report as being non-British nationals.
65,000 of that number are EU nationals.
Which by my reckoning means the new half price medical visa is going to be a huge net saving for those who want to come and work in our NHS based on historical inflows.
Not taking that any further in the current climate...
I think they’ve rolled that out at every election since time immemorial.
When will they ever learn?
Nor do I see a good reason for encouraging the loss of nurses from much poorer countries than ours.
In absolute terms its much much smaller than the "Dementia tax" and it won't affect directly anyone eligible to vote in the election (Though there will be indirect side effects).
Changing it then waving arms around in the air "Nothing has changed" is the error they need to avoid repeating here.
(* OK - as much as a BBC Sounds podcast/BBC One late night show is gonna popularise anything
With reference to the penny on income tax, this should be alarming for the Tories as it means the electorate is bored of austerity and spending is key (private polling must show the age of austerity has to go). Maybe this has driven BJ's sudden spendthrift tendencies?
It probably doesn’t help that the Tories in Scotland are currently leaderless/rudderless and that Ruth Davison’s reservations about Boris Johnson are very well
Which regions are the best for Tories given the differential swings?
Is there really a surfeit of Canadian and Australian nurses desperate to come and work in the NHS?
There is a great pool of medical talent right on our doorstep and the government is proposing to make it much more expensive for them to come and work here. "Encouraging the brightest and the best" my arse!
If they do get another referendum what happens if they don’t win it . What happens to the party and the cause itself .
I like Nicola Sturgeon and wish Scotland the very best if it decides to become independent but it’s a huge gamble now but perhaps it is now or never .
I think most of the time on here when the ‘off-topic’ button is pushed it’s done by accident when we mean to push ‘like’.
Except if you’re Sunil. Who, bless him, socially self-aware chap that he is, usually earns his flags and off-topics.
Workings (assume a bonus of £10K):
Child benefit withdrawn: £1,788
Income tax (40%) and employee NI 2%: £4,200
Next after tax received by the employee: £4,012
But the employer also pays 13.8% NI, so that £4,012 in the pocket of the employee costs £11,380. That nice Mr Javid gets 64.7% of it.
And the real scandal is that not a single one of the parties campaigning for your vote has any intention of doing anything about this madness.
One for the pagans there
Imagine for one second if a tory had said that
Results:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oKkOq3OQFkSd1v4Gd3AoDN-RkfCHa99d58L0cBCWRfs/edit#gid=0
Rebecca Long-Goodfriday. One for the classic film buffs there.
Of course, if the tax was lower it would cost less for the employer, but the employee doesn't necessarily see that their bonus would have been £1500 if not for tax.
But let me ask you this: do you think that many of the people who voted for Brexit were keen to have lots more migration from non-white countries? Will they be super-happy if, say, lots of Turkish and Syrian and Somali nurses arrived? Because I'm guessing that those posters about dark-skinned people from Turkey and Syria coming into the country were not chosen and used by accident.
Lib Dem TO Con. Yes.
SNP to Labour. Yes
SNP to Did Not Vote. Yes.
SNP to Con. No.
The Con to SNP seat switches would be driven by Lib Dem to Con voters switching back.
One for those assessing Labour's electoral prospects.
No representation without net contribution to the Exchequer.
I’m also now experiencing the joys of having my personal allowance withdrawn as I will now get over £100k nominally in the year (with gross rental income on my old property) - so a marginal rate of 60% on anything over that.
Does it have an affect on me and my view of my career and my work?
Yes, it does. I’m far less interested in working more to get a salary rise or promotion now, unless it’s a very big jump to £140-150k and straight up to Director level.
Otherwise, I’ll spend the time with my family and taking it steady.
They may - and probably will - get the opposite of what they voted for. What might the political consequences of this be for the Tories is what I am interested in.