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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that it is not just national debates that brave Sir Boris flees from:
    https://twitter.com/ARMilani_/status/1197572493072064512?s=19

    Its not as if the Prime Minister might be a little bit busy with other committments now is it?
    Surely he's seen Frozen 2 already
    Somebody had to play Olaf.... :)
  • Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Order Order is utter trash.

    I've read the IFS report, it's not nearly as scathing as people are making out.

    It is, generally, pretty trashy, but the daily roundups are useful and pretty fair on listing main messages of the day and which cut through.
  • Channel 4 News is calling on Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage to take part in a debate on climate change ahead of the election.

    On its Twitter feed, the programme said it would devote a one-hour special programme to host "the UK’s first ever leaders’ debate on the issue".

    However, while the leaders of Labour, the Lib Dems, the Green Party and the SNP have all agreed to take part, they are still waiting for responses from the leaders of both the Tory and Brexit Party.

    In a series of tweets, the programme said: "We urge the prime minister and Nigel Farage to show their commitment to this major issue and take part.

    "We do not intend to accept anyone other than party leaders to debate and examine the climate crisis and the related issues of the environment and biodiversity."

    Channel 4. Zero chance of Boris turning up.
  • kle4 said:

    Order Order is utter trash.

    I've read the IFS report, it's not nearly as scathing as people are making out.

    It is, generally, pretty trashy, but the daily roundups are useful and pretty fair on listing main messages of the day and which cut through.
    Thought you meant the IFS! I don't give Paul Staines money.
  • Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
  • BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Someone’s bought the domain name tory manifesto .

    There’s a lot of swearing involved on the site .
  • '

    Order Order is utter trash.

    I've read the IFS report, it's not nearly as scathing as people are making out.

    I listened to Paul Johnson live and 'yes it is'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    @kle4

    Ofsted to be replaced – does no one want to keep it? I’m unclear how creating a new body to do its job will lead to improvement

    What does asking the social justice commission to ‘advise on integrating private schools’ mean?

    What is the ‘casualisation of staff’ at HE institutions?


    In answer to your first question - no. Corruption, graft and lack of rigour have turned it into a laughing stock. One school of my acquaintance given a damning OFSTED report wriggled off the hook because the lead inspector was drunk. Their leader has never worked in a school, never been a success in any role and has never quite explained why she was appointed on the personal insistence of the then Secretary of State despite being unaware of the structure of academy chains or indeed basic safeguarding protocols.

    In answer to your second question - the idea seems be to to force private schools to become state schools. Most unlikely to work in the way they want it to. Efforts to persuade private schools to either academise or become free schools have been made, but even the most charitable interpretation would call it a decidedly mixed success. All other considerations aside, their facilities are usually inconveniently located and their rooms too small to make the state sector model work.

    The third question refers to the first number of lecturing staff on what amount to zero hours contracts - hourly paid and usually for six or twelve months (which is nine, as they don’t pay in holidays). This has increasingly taken over from permanent staff (although 8t is worth remembering in academia lecturers only have five year contracts, not permanent ones) and I have to say has led in my experience to a decline both in quality of teaching and in the standard of entrants into the profession.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Drutt said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Channel 4 Leaders debate cancelled.

    Corbyn said Yes, Boris said No.

    Boris closing down risk - sensible move.

    As predicted, Boris is ducking debates.
    Didn't he just do one?
    Yes, and now he is ducking them.
    Oh what a shame. I was looking forward to many more totally crap debates like Tuesday's.
    Was it any good? I meant to watch it but I ended up cutting verrucas out of my feet whilst watching Chris Stuckman review "Frozen ll". I now have less painful feet and know Olaf is a one-film character. So all in all, I made the right decision.

    I think the only thing I know is that it was on the set of Tron Legacy... :)
    No Frozen 2 spoilers, OK.
    Oh, let it go... :)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The prime minister’s quote relates specifically to his core policy. No wonder business are against it.
  • Order Order is utter trash.

    I've read the IFS report, it's not nearly as scathing as people are making out.

    The IFS said that the Labour manifesto would raise taxes to their highest sustained levels since the end of the second world war. I shudder to think what a scathing version of that assessment would be.
  • kyf_100 said:

    Floater said:

    It's make or break for Labour really. If the manifesto doesn't move the dial, well nothing is going to - and frankly I'll be very sad about that.

    You hid your labour leanings so well ......

    My gut feeling is if it moves the dial it will not be in the direction you want.

    Still, at least you given up on the "closing the gap" message that you were peddling

    I've enjoyed CorrectHorseBattery's perspective. Partisan yes but not a shill.

    I'm actually surprised by how badly Labour's promises seem to be going down. I'd have assumed "free stuff" would be a vote winner, at least with the pooerst in society and a few of the squeezed middle. But no Labour bounce so far.

    It's often said that 2017 was fought on many issues with Brexit being one of many, however it does seem as if 2019 is the "get Brexit done" election we were promised. Labour can't compete.

    I can't help but wonder if Labour have shot themselves in the foot by promising far too many things. If they'd concentrated on, say, three key policies they could have at least built a coalition around them.

    For example - 1. End student debt. Everyone under 40 votes for them. 2. Build 1m new council houses. Tells the working class they are on their side. 3. Legalise tax and regulate all drugs. Promise fall in crime, increased tax revenues directly increases NHS funding.

    At the moment Labour's messaging isn't clear and that allows the Tories room to repeat their much simpler, more memorable message. More labour = More tax.
    Its far simpler than that, Labour are a complete and utter shambles run by a core of Marxist imbeciles. Oh and the Tories are just the alternative option with a less quick demise in fortunes.
  • Just walked in to lounge where wife had C4 news on - looked like a 'vox pop' and lady said she felt Corbyn won the debate, bloke next to her said the polls don't agree and her response was something like...

    'well the polling companies are owned by the same people as the media who are all getting rich off Tory policies so given that'....

    walked back out

    I am sure the end of that sentence probably finished that it had something or other to do with the Jews.....
    certainly 'dark forces' was being hinted at ...
    Dark Forces? You mean Levy and Mourinho?
    hush
    https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/1197612095514255366
  • kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Floater said:

    It's make or break for Labour really. If the manifesto doesn't move the dial, well nothing is going to - and frankly I'll be very sad about that.

    You hid your labour leanings so well ......

    My gut feeling is if it moves the dial it will not be in the direction you want.

    Still, at least you given up on the "closing the gap" message that you were peddling

    I've enjoyed CorrectHorseBattery's perspective. Partisan yes but not a shill.

    I'm actually surprised by how badly Labour's promises seem to be going down. I'd have assumed "free stuff" would be a vote winner, at least with the pooerst in society and a few of the squeezed middle. But no Labour bounce so far.

    It's often said that 2017 was fought on many issues with Brexit being one of many, however it does seem as if 2019 is the "get Brexit done" election we were promised. Labour can't compete.

    I can't help but wonder if Labour have shot themselves in the foot by promising far too many things. If they'd concentrated on, say, three key policies they could have at least built a coalition around them.

    For example - 1. End student debt. Everyone under 40 votes for them. 2. Build 1m new council houses. Tells the working class they are on their side. 3. Legalise tax and regulate all drugs. Promise fall in crime, increased tax revenues directly increases NHS funding.

    At the moment Labour's messaging isn't clear and that allows the Tories room to repeat their much simpler, more memorable message. More labour = More tax.
    Thanks for your feedback.

    Regarding this being the Brexit election, there are signs it isn't, e.g. the NHS leading the IPSOS poll. That should be Labour's ground - but we will see.
    Hope you stick around, I enjoy reading you.

    I wonder if it's "the Brexit election" in places like Grimsby as discussed in the previous thread. I can't see any other explanation for polling like that. Even if concerns like the NHS are more important elsewhere.
    Mid price property in NE Lincolnshire is £90k:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033

    Do you think people in Grimsby are yearning for a massive council house building program ?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    ydoethur said:

    @kle4

    Ofsted to be replaced – does no one want to keep it? I’m unclear how creating a new body to do its job will lead to improvement

    What does asking the social justice commission to ‘advise on integrating private schools’ mean?

    What is the ‘casualisation of staff’ at HE institutions?


    In answer to your first question - no. Corruption, graft and lack of rigour have turned it into a laughing stock. One school of my acquaintance given a damning OFSTED report wriggled off the hook because the lead inspector was drunk. Their leader has never worked in a school, never been a success in any role and has never quite explained why she was appointed on the personal insistence of the then Secretary of State despite being unaware of the structure of academy chains or indeed basic safeguarding protocols.

    In answer to your second question - the idea seems be to to force private schools to become state schools. Most unlikely to work in the way they want it to. Efforts to persuade private schools to either academise or become free schools have been made, but even the most charitable interpretation would call it a decidedly mixed success. All other considerations aside, their facilities are usually inconveniently located and their rooms too small to make the state sector model work.

    The third question refers to the first number of lecturing staff on what amount to zero hours contracts - hourly paid and usually for six or twelve months (which is nine, as they don’t pay in holidays). This has increasingly taken over from permanent staff (although 8t is worth remembering in academia lecturers only have five year contracts, not permanent ones) and I have to say has led in my experience to a decline both in quality of teaching and in the standard of entrants into the profession.

    Thank you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    A large part of the problem with Boris Johnson is he wants to fuck everybody.
  • BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    You are sounding rattled
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    BluerBlue said:

    egg said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nichomar said:

    alex_ said:

    BTW is the

    Marxist to seize power.
    Marxist my arse.

    I beg to differ on the lack of class war! Huge tax hikes on personal income, businesses, capital gains, inheritance, private education aren't un oeuf for you?

    p.s. Yes, I will keep using that pun.
    That’s not Marxism, it still leaves class system in place, it doesn’t even promote class unity as socialists want. You can use any pun you want, it’s not factual. The fact is Corbyn and his manifesto is not Marxist or socialist, it’s social democrat.

    Nuclear Deterrent is classic example how marginalised pacifism and left wing views are in Britain today. This labour manifesto stands for renewal of an out of date policy of mutually assured destruction. Yes it’s MAD.

    A strongest argument of all can be made for not renewing trident. When you get to the bottom line it’s an insurance policy. One you can never use, and comes at costs the dwarfs the apparently insane spending pledges being made by all the parties at the Black Thursday general election of 2019. Four trident submarines over £120B through life. That comes out the same pot as current defence spending, so calculated in the 2% pledge, or not, is it clear? Whilst manifesto’s cowardly tick a box to renew trident are they ticking boxes to be able to protect a carrier task force if needed to? Costly deterrent doesn’t fill in for the lack of conventional forces needed for real threats not imaginary ones. Where’s your nuclear deterrent when one of our carriers is going down? What’s the right question voters should ask, what you you really think Russia and China are going to launch a nuclear attack against us, knowing what they know about Chernobyl? So It’s about keeping us safe? Are these arsenals really that safe in the age of cyber warfare?
    Or is it just an insurance policy used in second strike policy? The answers no, current government policy does not rule out first use of nuclear weapons. FACT. The Labour manifesto promises renewal of it, does it rule out using it in a pre emptied strike? Swinson made clear she would drop a nuclear bomb on a city in an instant. Corbyn’s Labour renewing Trident to threaten the same thing. Does either manifesto change first strike which is current government policy?

    Where’s the national debate if trident should be renewed or not Oh so radical Jeremy Corbyn.

  • BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    You are sounding rattled
    Not really, I'm just pointing it out. If you're poor or disabled the Tories don't care about you, that much is patently clear to me anyway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Labour meanwhile say fuck you to anyone intelligent, hard working, honest or anti racist.

    What a delightful choice we have.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Just walked in to lounge where wife had C4 news on - looked like a 'vox pop' and lady said she felt Corbyn won the debate, bloke next to her said the polls don't agree and her response was something like...

    'well the polling companies are owned by the same people as the media who are all getting rich off Tory policies so given that'....

    walked back out

    I am sure the end of that sentence probably finished that it had something or other to do with the Jews.....
    certainly 'dark forces' was being hinted at ...
    Dark Forces? You mean Levy and Mourinho?
    hush
    https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/1197612095514255366
    Well done finding the only person in Football with a bigger ego than Mourinho.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:



    I've enjoyed CorrectHorseBattery's perspective. Partisan yes but not a shill.

    I'm actually surprised by how badly Labour's promises seem to be going down. I'd have assumed "free stuff" would be a vote winner, at least with the pooerst in society and a few of the squeezed middle. But no Labour bounce so far.

    It's often said that 2017 was fought on many issues with Brexit being one of many, however it does seem as if 2019 is the "get Brexit done" election we were promised. Labour can't compete.

    I can't help but wonder if Labour have shot themselves in the foot by promising far too many things. If they'd concentrated on, say, three key policies they could have at least built a coalition around them.

    For example - 1. End student debt. Everyone under 40 votes for them. 2. Build 1m new council houses. Tells the working class they are on their side. 3. Legalise tax and regulate all drugs. Promise fall in crime, increased tax revenues directly increases NHS funding.

    At the moment Labour's messaging isn't clear and that allows the Tories room to repeat their much simpler, more memorable message. More labour = More tax.

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Regarding this being the Brexit election, there are signs it isn't, e.g. the NHS leading the IPSOS poll. That should be Labour's ground - but we will see.
    Hope you stick around, I enjoy reading you.

    I wonder if it's "the Brexit election" in places like Grimsby as discussed in the previous thread. I can't see any other explanation for polling like that. Even if concerns like the NHS are more important elsewhere.
    Mid price property in NE Lincolnshire is £90k:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033

    Do you think people in Grimsby are yearning for a massive council house building program ?
    Depends. If they can get a council house a hundred miles away - maybe!

    But seriously. Labour could easily make the case for a national programme of council house building, guaranteeing those on low incomes a decent place to live at reasonable rates. At the moment you have a situation where the very poor are living in awful housing stock and handing over half their monthly pay to landlords. Or their housing benefit. Either way you can make a positive case for more council housing.

    As far as 90k goes, that's still quite a lot if you're on minimum wage.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the right to vote, wouldn't it be better if it was something that had to be earned. People could accumulate citizenship points, and when they reached a high enough level, they would gain certain privileges:

    100 pts - right to vote in local elections
    150 pts - right to vote in national elections
    200 pts - right to use the fast lane on the motorway
    250 pts - right to stand in national elections

    Points could be earned for serving in the forces, paying your taxes on time, keeping the streets around your house clean, your children having good school attendance records etc.

    And they could be lost by committing a crime, or other antisocial behaviour

    From the same people who thought EEA/EFTA was a workable outcome. It will end up as either everything or nothing. That is the era we are in now.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    humbugger said:

    Banterman said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    Labour's proposals to tax dividends at income tax rates will hit many ordinary self employed people who runs their businesses as limited companies and whose total income is well below £80,000. It will also hit many pensioners who rely on dividend income. CCHQ should be all over this proposal and relentlessly highlight its impact.

    When you say 'hit' you mean it will stop them dodging tax like they do now.
    That's bollocks. If you run a small business you take huge risks. The taxman chases every thing these days and like any other business, dividends are allowed out of profits.
    Fair enough when it a genuine business. Not when it is an IR35 tax-dodge.
    You omitted to address the situation for the many pensioners that depend on dividend income to supplement their pensions. Presumably you are not too bothered about them because they probably vote Tory in any case.
    Dividend income. If it is income it should be taxed as income.

    Simples.
  • BluerBlue said:

    BluerBlue said:


    Are you really that uniformed about the historical importance of citizenship going all the way back to classical Athens and even earlier? The citizen is the building-block of the city- or nation-state, because that status invests a person with the full rights and responsibilities that membership of that political entity entails. It has almost never been given away willy-nilly, and doing so dilutes the voting power of the existig citizens, which is as close to a crime against democracy as you can get.

    Just checking, are 'qualifying' Commonwealth citizens from Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Darussalam, Cameroon, Canada,Cyprus1 Dominica, Fiji Islands, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Rwanda, St Kitts & Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent & The Grenadies, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, The Gambia, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Republic of Tanzania, Vanuatu, Zambia & Zimbabwe voting in UK GEs complicit in a crime against democracy or not?
    It's a unique after-effect of Britain's history of being an empire, although it is a little out of place now that we have reverted to being just a nation-state. Didn't know you were such a fan of the Imperial legacy. :wink:
    I haven't expressed an opinion, just curious how far and how consistently your hyperbole sprayed.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Cant be true - Dawn Butler said there were 3000 homeless in her constituency when Labour ran the country - the situation is much better now.

    Unless she was lying and got caught out?

    Labour literally intend to fuck us all - but thats ok with you....
  • BluerBlueBluerBlue Posts: 521
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    BluerBlue said:

    egg said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nichomar said:

    alex_ said:

    BTW is the

    Marxist to seize power.
    Marxist my arse.

    I beg to differ on the lack of class war! Huge tax hikes on personal income, businesses, capital gains, inheritance, private education aren't un oeuf for you?

    p.s. Yes, I will keep using that pun.
    Nuclear Deterrent is classic example how marginalised pacifism and left wing views are in Britain today. Yes it’s MAD.

    A strongest argument of all can be made for not renewing trident. When you get to the bottom line it’s an insurance policy. One you can never use, and comes at costs the dwarfs the apparently insane spending pledges being made by all the parties at the Black Thursday general election of 2019. Four trident submarines over £120B through life. That comes out the same pot as current defence spending, so calculated in the 2% pledge, or not, is it clear? Whilst manifesto’s cowardly tick a box to renew trident are they ticking boxes to be able to protect a carrier task force if needed to? Costly deterrent doesn’t fill in for the lack of conventional forces needed for real threats not imaginary ones. Where’s your nuclear deterrent when one of our carriers is going down? What’s the right question voters should ask, what you you really think Russia and China are going to launch a nuclear attack against us, knowing what they know about Chernobyl? So It’s about keeping us safe? Are these arsenals really that safe in the age of cyber warfare?
    Or is it just an insurance policy used in second strike policy? The answers no, current government policy does not rule out first use of nuclear weapons. FACT. The Labour manifesto promises renewal of it, does it rule out using it in a pre emptied strike? Swinson made clear she would drop a nuclear bomb on a city in an instant. Corbyn’s Labour renewing Trident to threaten the same thing. Does either manifesto change first strike which is current government policy?

    Where’s the national debate if trident should be renewed or not Oh so radical Jeremy Corbyn.

    Well actually Labour policy has produced the worst of both worlds - the manifesto commits Labour to spending the billions to renew Trident, whilst at the same time everyone knows that a PM Corbyn would ensure that there was no way Trident would ever be used for any reason whatsoever, so you don't even get the deterrent effect.

    That's waste on a truly epic scale.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    I predict this will happen. It is patently clear to me.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    humbugger said:

    Banterman said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    Labour's proposals to tax dividends at income tax rates will hit many ordinary self employed people who runs their businesses as limited companies and whose total income is well below £80,000. It will also hit many pensioners who rely on dividend income. CCHQ should be all over this proposal and relentlessly highlight its impact.

    When you say 'hit' you mean it will stop them dodging tax like they do now.
    That's bollocks. If you run a small business you take huge risks. The taxman chases every thing these days and like any other business, dividends are allowed out of profits.
    Fair enough when it a genuine business. Not when it is an IR35 tax-dodge.
    You omitted to address the situation for the many pensioners that depend on dividend income to supplement their pensions. Presumably you are not too bothered about them because they probably vote Tory in any case.
    Dividend income. If it is income it should be taxed as income.

    Simples.
    https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    Boris once a while ago - F Business

    Labour “Hold my Pint”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    Nuclear Deterrent is classic example how marginalised pacifism and left wing views are in Britain today. This labour manifesto stands for renewal of an out of date policy of mutually assured destruction. Yes it’s MAD.

    Nuclear weapons - as your snipped comment actually demonstrates rather well - are one of those curious items that the arguments about them are quasi religious and usually bear no resemblance to the actual reality of the situation. The NHS, fox hunting, badger culling and Europe spring to mind as others.

    There is a legitimate argument to be made that actual an independent nuclear deterrent is not a useful item. However, the arguments never seem to deal with the actual point, which is that by getting rid of nuclear weapons we could spend that money to considerably increase the strength and quality of our grossly overstretched conventional forces. Sir Humphrey’s famous dictum that no starving African children would be saved if we scrapped Trident as we’d spend the money on conventional weapons was eerily prescient.

    At the same time, there is a legitimate argument that the possession of nuclear weapons keeps the peace between major states, and if the major states did not have them the risk of conventional war would increase and many smaller, rogue operations would spring up a la North Korea and Iran.

    But there is never a grownup debate on it.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    humbugger said:

    Banterman said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    Labour's proposals to tax dividends at income tax rates will hit many ordinary self employed people who runs their businesses as limited companies and whose total income is well below £80,000. It will also hit many pensioners who rely on dividend income. CCHQ should be all over this proposal and relentlessly highlight its impact.

    When you say 'hit' you mean it will stop them dodging tax like they do now.
    That's bollocks. If you run a small business you take huge risks. The taxman chases every thing these days and like any other business, dividends are allowed out of profits.
    Fair enough when it a genuine business. Not when it is an IR35 tax-dodge.
    You omitted to address the situation for the many pensioners that depend on dividend income to supplement their pensions. Presumably you are not too bothered about them because they probably vote Tory in any case.
    Dividend income. If it is income it should be taxed as income.

    Simples.
    But you’ve already paid corporation tax too as a business owner before your dividend, so a balance should be struck.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    egg said:

    BluerBlue said:

    egg said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nichomar said:

    alex_ said:

    BTW is the

    If corbyn had presented his manifesto without stupid changes to employment legislation, union power and nationalization he could have won, their obsession with recreate the 70’s will result in failure and a betrayal of people who need a labour government but it was always more important for labour to achieve socialist utopia than actually helping people who need them
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited November 2019

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Floater said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Cant be true - Dawn Butler said there were 3000 homeless in her constituency when Labour ran the country - the situation is much better now.

    Unless she was lying and got caught out?

    Labour literally intend to fuck us all - but thats ok with you....
    Dawn Butler, lying?

    Say it ain’t so...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    It was unfortunate though that Corbyn’s response was to announce he would abolish elections.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    I am looking for the best chance of getting Boris out of Downing Street, as such I am yet to decide who to vote for in December.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    nichomar said:

    If corbyn had presented his manifesto without stupid changes to employment legislation, union power and nationalization he could have won, their obsession with recreate the 70’s will result in failure and a betrayal of people who need a labour government but it was always more important for labour to achieve socialist utopia than actually helping people who need them

    I have never understood why anyone thinks the Labour left care about the poor. They don’t. They care about their fat cat mates just as much as the Tories do. It’s just they’ve got a different set of fat cat mates. If the poor can be used to assist this, that is from their point of view more or less incidental.
  • kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:


    Thanks for your feedback.

    Regarding this being the Brexit election, there are signs it isn't, e.g. the NHS leading the IPSOS poll. That should be Labour's ground - but we will see.

    Hope you stick around, I enjoy reading you.

    I wonder if it's "the Brexit election" in places like Grimsby as discussed in the previous thread. I can't see any other explanation for polling like that. Even if concerns like the NHS are more important elsewhere.
    Mid price property in NE Lincolnshire is £90k:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033

    Do you think people in Grimsby are yearning for a massive council house building program ?
    Depends. If they can get a council house a hundred miles away - maybe!

    But seriously. Labour could easily make the case for a national programme of council house building, guaranteeing those on low incomes a decent place to live at reasonable rates. At the moment you have a situation where the very poor are living in awful housing stock and handing over half their monthly pay to landlords. Or their housing benefit. Either way you can make a positive case for more council housing.

    As far as 90k goes, that's still quite a lot if you're on minimum wage.
    The problem with that theory is that council houses have become associated with urban fringe sink estates or slums in the sky or in the worst cases urban fringe slums in the sky.

    Now you might say build the council houses among private developments but I can guess the reaction that home owners will have when told that their taxes are going to be used to build houses for the very poor to live in the same area they do.

    Housing might be a big issue where it is unaffordable but where it isn't it isn't.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Anyone pointed out that with the things that Corbyn is promising to do on ‘day one’ there are a lot of people going to be left without a source of income on December 14th?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the right to vote, wouldn't it be better if it was something that had to be earned. People could accumulate citizenship points, and when they reached a high enough level, they would gain certain privileges:

    100 pts - right to vote in local elections
    150 pts - right to vote in national elections
    200 pts - right to use the fast lane on the motorway
    250 pts - right to stand in national elections

    Points could be earned for serving in the forces, paying your taxes on time, keeping the streets around your house clean, your children having good school attendance records etc.

    And they could be lost by committing a crime, or other antisocial behaviour

    You're a clever fella. Would you like to think of some examples, from fact or fiction, where your behaviour is continually monitored and citizenship rights go up and down accordingly? Then tell me if any of them aren't cautionary tales, or dystopias, or China.

    Honestly, did John Spartan die in vain?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    It was unfortunate though that Corbyn’s response was to announce he would abolish elections.
    Eh?
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Are Israel really going to have a third GE in a year? How many times can they ask the public to give a different answer?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50486647
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the right to vote, wouldn't it be better if it was something that had to be earned. People could accumulate citizenship points, and when they reached a high enough level, they would gain certain privileges:

    100 pts - right to vote in local elections
    150 pts - right to vote in national elections
    200 pts - right to use the fast lane on the motorway
    250 pts - right to stand in national elections

    Points could be earned for serving in the forces, paying your taxes on time, keeping the streets around your house clean, your children having good school attendance records etc.

    And they could be lost by committing a crime, or other antisocial behaviour

    You're a clever fella. Would you like to think of some examples, from fact or fiction, where your behaviour is continually monitored and citizenship rights go up and down accordingly? Then tell me if any of them aren't cautionary tales, or dystopias, or China.

    Honestly, did John Spartan die in vain?
    Also Starship Troopers. Service guarantees citizenship!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    It was unfortunate though that Corbyn’s response was to announce he would abolish elections.
    Eh?
    He said as an MP for 36 years he would never prorogue Parliament.

    He seems to have forgotten it’s necessary to prorogue it to hold elections.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Cant be true - Dawn Butler said there were 3000 homeless in her constituency when Labour ran the country - the situation is much better now.

    Unless she was lying and got caught out?

    Labour literally intend to fuck us all - but thats ok with you....
    Dawn Butler, lying?

    Say it ain’t so...
    Just listen to this crap

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCwFLUt6zgE



  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Factcheck literally said CCHQ and labourmanifesto.co.uk literally says on its second line in big text "A WEBSITE BY THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY"
    No, it said FactCheck UK. Their display name did not mention the Conservative party in any way. That is why twitter told them not to do it again under threat of suspension.
    Not the name but it said CCHQ in the graphics, in the description and on the handle.
    The avatar did not, nor did the display name.. The two main thing that would be seen on a like or retweet.

    If the display name is long enough you don't even see the twitter handle on a retweet.

    It was incredibly cynically done. You don't see the account header unless you click through to the profile page itself, not an individual tweet.
    Everything they Tweeted itself did too. They Tweeted out images with it on.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    It’s not a binary choice you don’t have to vote for the Marxist, who will crash and burn, you don’t need to vote for the serial philanderer and proven lier who’s only interest is his own interest let yourself free
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    No, he’s voting against Corbyn.
  • https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Final-Telegraph-Tables-20c11d19h.pdf

    Okay question on polling.

    This ComRes poll has the raw sample as 35% Tory/34% Labour. Is this sample still statistically significant or does it only become so when it is weighted?

    Sorry for my stupid question
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    No, he told you he wont vote for the marxist enemy of the west.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    You are showing signs of hysteria
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    You're really going down that road when Corbyn has allowed antisemitism in the Labour Party to become virulent under his leadership, and he and his top team are still in mourning for the Soviet Union?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/was-jeremy-corbyn-czech-informer-cold-war-truth-fact-evidence-jan-sarkocy-a8218461.html

    Jeremy Corbyn is at the centre of a bizarre row over his actions in the 1980s, amid accusations he worked as a Soviet-bloc informant during the Cold War.

    The controversy began when The Sun uncovered files in Czech archives that appeared to show the current Labour leader had met with a Czechoslovakian agent at least three times in 1986 and 1987.

    Mr Corbyn admits to the meetings but insists he thought the man was a diplomat, and strongly denies giving him any information.

    Other senior Labour figures have also now been included in the allegations.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kle4 said:

    Are Israel really going to have a third GE in a year? How many times can they ask the public to give a different answer?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50486647

    They should join the EU.....
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited November 2019
    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    You're really going down that road when Corbyn has allowed antisemitism in the Labour Party to become virulent under his leadership, and he and his top team are still in mourning for the Soviet Union?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/was-jeremy-corbyn-czech-informer-cold-war-truth-fact-evidence-jan-sarkocy-a8218461.html

    Jeremy Corbyn is at the centre of a bizarre row over his actions in the 1980s, amid accusations he worked as a Soviet-bloc informant during the Cold War.

    The controversy began when The Sun uncovered files in Czech archives that appeared to show the current Labour leader had met with a Czechoslovakian agent at least three times in 1986 and 1987.

    Mr Corbyn admits to the meetings but insists he thought the man was a diplomat, and strongly denies giving him any information.

    Other senior Labour figures have also now been included in the allegations.
    I'm just saying that backing a man who has said racist things and is bought by the Russians, is a weird person to back when you claim to be anti-racist and against corruption.

    Swinson is surely more logical in this case
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    nichomar said:

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    It’s not a binary choice you don’t have to vote for the Marxist, who will crash and burn, you don’t need to vote for the serial philanderer and proven lier who’s only interest is his own interest let yourself free
    It is round here.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Maybe the Lib Dems will win Batttttersea, but they obviously can't spell it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Jonathan said:

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    I am looking for the best chance of getting Boris out of Downing Street, as such I am yet to decide who to vote for in December.
    You said that in 2017 and yet you still voted for the loony marxists.
  • Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Cant be true - Dawn Butler said there were 3000 homeless in her constituency when Labour ran the country - the situation is much better now.

    Unless she was lying and got caught out?

    Labour literally intend to fuck us all - but thats ok with you....
    Dawn Butler, lying?

    Say it ain’t so...
    Just listen to this crap

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCwFLUt6zgE



    She's so thick that she's said that there were more homeless people under the last Labour government.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Really looking forward to Saturday night polls.

    If Labour don't start to tighten the pills by then they really are in trouble.
  • nunu2 said:

    Really looking forward to Saturday night polls.

    If Labour don't start to tighten the pills by then they really are in trouble.

    Agree.
  • BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    You're really going down that road when Corbyn has allowed antisemitism in the Labour Party to become virulent under his leadership, and he and his top team are still in mourning for the Soviet Union?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/was-jeremy-corbyn-czech-informer-cold-war-truth-fact-evidence-jan-sarkocy-a8218461.html

    Jeremy Corbyn is at the centre of a bizarre row over his actions in the 1980s, amid accusations he worked as a Soviet-bloc informant during the Cold War.

    The controversy began when The Sun uncovered files in Czech archives that appeared to show the current Labour leader had met with a Czechoslovakian agent at least three times in 1986 and 1987.

    Mr Corbyn admits to the meetings but insists he thought the man was a diplomat, and strongly denies giving him any information.

    Other senior Labour figures have also now been included in the allegations.
    I'm just saying that backing a man who has said racist things and is bought by the Russians, is a weird person to back when you claim to be anti-racist and against corruption.

    Swinson is surely more logical in this case
    She and the LDs would indeed be a logical choice - if voting for them wouldn't let the far-left antisemite party seize power.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
    Who said anything about it being patriotic.

    It is the only means I have of stopping the disaster that would be Corbyn and his marxist cabal
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Cant be true - Dawn Butler said there were 3000 homeless in her constituency when Labour ran the country - the situation is much better now.

    Unless she was lying and got caught out?

    Labour literally intend to fuck us all - but thats ok with you....
    Dawn Butler, lying?

    Say it ain’t so...
    Just listen to this crap

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCwFLUt6zgE



    She's so thick that she's said that there were more homeless people under the last Labour government.
    And she is by no means the dumbest or most dangerous of the bunch
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,232
    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the right to vote, wouldn't it be better if it was something that had to be earned. People could accumulate citizenship points, and when they reached a high enough level, they would gain certain privileges:

    100 pts - right to vote in local elections
    150 pts - right to vote in national elections
    200 pts - right to use the fast lane on the motorway
    250 pts - right to stand in national elections

    Points could be earned for serving in the forces, paying your taxes on time, keeping the streets around your house clean, your children having good school attendance records etc.

    And they could be lost by committing a crime, or other antisocial behaviour

    You're a clever fella. Would you like to think of some examples, from fact or fiction, where your behaviour is continually monitored and citizenship rights go up and down accordingly? Then tell me if any of them aren't cautionary tales, or dystopias, or China.

    Honestly, did John Spartan die in vain?
    Also Starship Troopers. Service guarantees citizenship!
    Demolition Man, that episode of The Orville, that episode of Black Mirror, 1984, China's Social Credit scheme (from the people who bought you vivisecting Uighurs!)... It's such a trope I'm surprised @rcs1000 got to the end of the sentence without realising it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1197596178550022151?s=19

    Trump is raking it in. Some interesting info in follow up tweets as well.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    nichomar said:

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    It’s not a binary choice you don’t have to vote for the Marxist, who will crash and burn, you don’t need to vote for the serial philanderer and proven lier who’s only interest is his own interest let yourself free
    Well I could vote for a party that’s fighting the SNP tooth and nail, refusing to have a second Scottish referendum, where it got the result its Scottish leader wanted, whilst wanting to erase the result of the European one, where she didn’t, whilst actively being in alliance in my constituency with Plaid Cymru, the SNP’s sister party, whose leader wants a referendum on Welsh independence by 2031.

    Or I could stop playing twister and not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    nunu2 said:

    Really looking forward to Saturday night polls.

    If Labour don't start to tighten the pills by then they really are in trouble.

    Agreed. It wouldn't be over, but it would give greater weight to those who think we are not in a repeat of 2017.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited November 2019

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
    Who said anything about it being patriotic.

    It is the only means I have of stopping the disaster that would be Corbyn and his marxist cabal
    We hear this every time.

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656

    Each time they attack the Marxist, each time they take us further into the abyss. The last four years have been abysmal. I want change,
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    So you'll vote for a man with a history of racism and who is bought by the Russians? Ok
    You're really going down that road when Corbyn has allowed antisemitism in the Labour Party to become virulent under his leadership, and he and his top team are still in mourning for the Soviet Union?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/was-jeremy-corbyn-czech-informer-cold-war-truth-fact-evidence-jan-sarkocy-a8218461.html

    Jeremy Corbyn is at the centre of a bizarre row over his actions in the 1980s, amid accusations he worked as a Soviet-bloc informant during the Cold War.

    The controversy began when The Sun uncovered files in Czech archives that appeared to show the current Labour leader had met with a Czechoslovakian agent at least three times in 1986 and 1987.

    Mr Corbyn admits to the meetings but insists he thought the man was a diplomat, and strongly denies giving him any information.

    Other senior Labour figures have also now been included in the allegations.
    I'm just saying that backing a man who has said racist things and is bought by the Russians, is a weird person to back when you claim to be anti-racist and against corruption.

    Swinson is surely more logical in this case
    The Lib Dems are unable to form a government - nothing is more important than making sure that Corbyn and the rest of the marxist rabble can't get hold of power.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    nunu2 said:

    Really looking forward to Saturday night polls.

    If Labour don't start to tighten the pills by then they really are in trouble.

    I am still concerned that £363 trillion for Our Beloved NHS (all miraculously paid for by a handful of billionaires) is going to give all those wavering Labour voters the excuse they need to start going back.

    But yes, if Labour are still hovering around 30% come next weekend then I might finally just about begin to dare to believe in the remote possibility that we could be spared another Hung Parliament.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
    Who said anything about it being patriotic.

    It is the only means I have of stopping the disaster that would be Corbyn and his marxist cabal
    We hear this every time.

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656

    Each time they attack the Marxist, each time they take us further into the abyss. The last four years have been abysmal.
    Ed Miliband would've been a perfectly acceptable Prime Minister.

    Jeremy Corbyn, not so much.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Yet you were happy to support Thatcher. Cheer leader for apartheid South Africa and friend of General Pinochet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
    Who said anything about it being patriotic.

    It is the only means I have of stopping the disaster that would be Corbyn and his marxist cabal
    We hear this every time.

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656

    Each time they attack the Marxist, each time they take us further into the abyss. The last four years have been abysmal. I want change,
    We also hear that we only have x days to save the NHS or whatever every time. No one can pretend their side does not have stupid, stock lines that they use every time.

    And they work.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I don’t know how it can be claimed that Boris has acted unlawfully in high office - before proroguation he took legal advice, and up until the Supreme Court it was not deemed to be unlawful, and once confirmed Parliament was recalled. This has riled me since then - if he tried it again now he would be acting unlawfully. It doesn’t make him more fit bot be pm
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    I think an excellent Conservative manifesto pledge should be compulsory economics lessons for all Labour voters.

    Free of course.

    Paid for by a tax on the Unions. £500 per Union member per year paid by the Union.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited November 2019
    welshowl said:

    nichomar said:

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    It’s not a binary choice you don’t have to vote for the Marxist, who will crash and burn, you don’t need to vote for the serial philanderer and proven lier who’s only interest is his own interest let yourself free
    Well I could vote for a party that’s fighting the SNP tooth and nail, refusing to have a second Scottish referendum, where it got the result its Scottish leader wanted, whilst wanting to erase the result of the European one, where she didn’t, whilst actively being in alliance in my constituency with Plaid Cymru, the SNP’s sister party, whose leader wants a referendum on Welsh independence by 2031.

    Or I could stop playing twister and not.
    The Unionist parties (or, at least, the high commands thereof in London) have all, at various times, given the distinct impression of only being Unionist if and when it suits them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    I think an excellent Conservative manifesto pledge should be compulsory economics lessons for all Labour voters.

    Free of course.

    Paid for by a tax on the Unions. £500 per Union member per year paid by the Union.

    They’re already far too good at fantasy figures and falsification. Why pay money to make them even better at it?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    nichomar said:

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit for high office.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Yet you will vote for a marxist and his thuggish outriders and associated anti semites.

    Go figure.
    It’s not a binary choice you don’t have to vote for the Marxist, who will crash and burn, you don’t need to vote for the serial philanderer and proven lier who’s only interest is his own interest let yourself free
    Well I could vote for a party that’s fighting the SNP tooth and nail, refusing to have a second Scottish referendum, where it got the result its Scottish leader wanted, whilst wanting to erase the result of the European one, where she didn’t, whilst actively being in alliance in my constituency with Plaid Cymru, the SNP’s sister party, whose leader wants a referendum on Welsh independence by 2031.

    Or I could stop playing twister and not.
    The Unionist parties (or, at least, the high commands thereof in London) have all, at various times, given the distinct impression of only being Unionist if and when it suits them.
    Quite. It’s a ludicrous ludicrous position to be in: fiercely anti SNP, and in active alliance with Plaid Cymru. Go figure!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
    Who said anything about it being patriotic.

    It is the only means I have of stopping the disaster that would be Corbyn and his marxist cabal
    We hear this every time.

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656

    Each time they attack the Marxist, each time they take us further into the abyss. The last four years have been abysmal. I want change,
    We also hear that we only have x days to save the NHS or whatever every time. No one can pretend their side does not have stupid, stock lines that they use every time.

    And they work.
    So I look at the last four years and say no thanks, never again. I think that’s an entirely reasonable point of view.
  • I think an excellent Conservative manifesto pledge should be compulsory economics lessons for all Labour voters.

    Free of course.

    Paid for by a tax on the Unions. £500 per Union member per year paid by the Union.

    I have had quite a few lessons in economics over the years and I am voting Labour. So I don't think it will be very effective. Unless it is a voodoo economics lesson where a load of spivy Tories drone on about trickle down and the Laffer curve and how income inequality is a great motivator.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    Can I commend you to vote for the LDs and reject that false choice? Financial sanity rather than either Tory or Labour magic money tree, and a leader who is untainted by racism.
  • I do detect remainers who have tied their colours to Jo Swinson and the lib dems are somewhat in despair tonight as it is clear she has failed to get support for revoke and most likely has lost her cause as Corbyn's marxist manifesto panics many into Boris camp.

    Brexit does not matter now, stopping Corbyn does
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Anyway, on more interesting matters:

    Are any polls due tonight, or do we have to go Hungary?
  • I am surprised that the Tories thought it necessary to pay Google today in order to present their material under the Trumpian false title of The Labour Party Manifesto.

    Is the Conservative Party unable to win this election without dirty tricks or indeed without pulling Johnson from a Leader's debate? If that is the case then they are unfit to govern.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    I am surprised that the Tories thought it necessary to pay Google today in order to present their material under the Trumpian false title of The Labour Party Manifesto.

    Is the Conservative Party unable to win this election without dirty tricks or indeed without pulling Johnson from a Leader's debate? If that is the case then they are unfit to govern.

    Oh please....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    Floater said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    Correction:

    The Prime Minister once said "Fuck business".

    Every page of Labour's 107-page manifesto actually fucks business.
    The Tories say "fuck you" to anyone who is poor or disabled, or homeless.
    Cant be true - Dawn Butler said there were 3000 homeless in her constituency when Labour ran the country - the situation is much better now.

    Unless she was lying and got caught out?

    Labour literally intend to fuck us all - but thats ok with you....
    You should seek help
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    I'd certainly urge everyone to vote tactically this election for your best placed local candidate to beat Corbyn.
  • My poll question got missed
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2019
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    IFS: Labour Proposing the Most Punitive Corporate Tax System in the World https://t.co/oRoYcX0gCJ

    The prime minister wants to “fuck business “.
    That is such a weak reaponse. The question is 'do you agree with the IFS'
    It is not weak, the actual prime minister actually said that. You’re mad enough to vote for him.
    I am voting for the party best placed to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history

    Nothing more, nothing less, and trust many millions will do the same
    Millions will vote against Boris, a man proven uniquely to act unlawfully in high office. A man that those who know him best say he is utterly unfit to be PM.

    It is a shame you will be voting for that.
    I really do not care about your attempt at moral judgment.

    I will not support a marxist who is complicit in anti semitism and supports the enemies of our Country
    Your moral high horse became dog food years ago. By all means vote ‘Britain Trump’, but don’t kid yourself that is a patriotic act.
    Who said anything about it being patriotic.

    It is the only means I have of stopping the disaster that would be Corbyn and his marxist cabal
    We hear this every time.

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656

    Each time they attack the Marxist, each time they take us further into the abyss. The last four years have been abysmal. I want change,
    We also hear that we only have x days to save the NHS or whatever every time. No one can pretend their side does not have stupid, stock lines that they use every time.

    And they work.
    So I look at the last four years and say no thanks, never again. I think that’s an entirely reasonable point of view.
    That's fine, I just think complaining our political parties use the same tired attack lines each time is a bit weird. No one looks good on the front, no the parties, not we the public for falling for it.

    But so help me god the first party to bring up Thatcher will ensure I vote for whoever opposes them.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723

    I think an excellent Conservative manifesto pledge should be compulsory economics lessons for all Labour voters.

    Free of course.

    Paid for by a tax on the Unions. £500 per Union member per year paid by the Union.

    I have had quite a few lessons in economics over the years and I am voting Labour. So I don't think it will be very effective. Unless it is a voodoo economics lesson where a load of spivy Tories drone on about trickle down and the Laffer curve and how income inequality is a great motivator.
    Trickle down means floods down to Cayman Islands
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