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  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,317
    edited November 2019
    ydoethur said:



    Byronic said:

    BBC release close up video of Corbyns face when he refuses to apologise for anti-semitism. Brutal.

    With that framing, and particular combination of words and image, that could be a twitter post from the Conservatives.

    Odd.
    Maybe it’s a Zionist cabal inside the Beeb? Try that angle. Might work
    You don't need a zionist cabal to be not doing your job as an independent broadcaster, I think.
    Ummm...news organisation has embarrassing clip of racist politician being impaled over his racism.
    News organisation uses it to illustrate news story that everyone is calling said politician and his party racist.
    Not seeing how that’s a breach of impartiality...
    It comes close for a fairly specific and unusual reason - "no apology for" is quite a common formulation of political advertising. The fact is first taken as read - that's he's guilty - and then shifted to the emotional pitch of refusal to atone, apologise or ameliorate for said fact. A million trashy online political adverts of both sides of the atlantic follow this formula of exaggerated certainty followed by immediate shift to emotion.

    At the very least, it shows how amateurish the BBC has become, at times. It should say something along the lines : "Corbyn remains defiant that apology not necessary after anti-semitism charges"
  • RobD said:

    What day is Boris due in the torture chair?

    Tomorrow and I expect he will suffer as well

    But after that anyone who votes anything but conservative risks putting Corbyn in power

    Maybe beating back every labour argument with a monotone Corbyn is a terrorist and all who support him are marxists is actually risking putting Corbyn in power. Sometimes people need evaluated reasons to formally assess their political choices. You just need one liners from the Mail. Your'e like a black friday advert, everyone knows its bollocks but still you harp on.
  • HaroldO said:

    humbugger said:

    At last, Corbyn properly confronted with the lie that only the top 5% will pay more tax. And as for Waspi, John Rentoul's tweet is correct. Labour are clueless on funding their spending, and the the Tories should hammer Labour on this together with borrowing money to compensate the likes of Emma Thompson, Sarah Ferguson and Diane Abbott.

    Javid started up the rebuttals today, I think he is going to have a bigger role than Boris over the next two weeks. Last time the Tories had no such go to person.
    Not saying it will work mind, but they will have some ammo after tonights performance.
    Tories should use the Saj a lot more. He may be dull and wooden but is also calm, competent, believable and, above all, a safe pair of hands. Think voters will like that.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,522
    Andy_JS said:

    If Labour had ditched Corbyn after the VONC, they would very probably be in power by now

    If Labour had ditched Corbyn after he lost the last GE, they would very probably be on the verge of taking power now

    What will now be left after Corbyn?

    If Labour only lose 50 seats the Corbynites could be difficult to shift from the top of the party. They'e need to lose more than that in order for a clear-out to take place.
    The voters in subsequent elections will complete the clear out - the Corbyn project will have killed Labour and something else will replace it.

    It might not happen in the next six months - but it will. The unions will find some other project to bankroll and without the money, rumpLabour will be nothing.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,215

    Analysis by the Electoral Reform Society shows that 3.2 million people have registered to vote since the general election was called.

    This figure is 875,000 higher than the same period during the 2017 election, when 2.3 million people registered before the deadline - representing a 38% increase.

    18-25 group up by more than 300,000 on GE 2017 26-35 group up by more than 200,000 compared to GE2017

    Bodes well for closing the gap further in final 2 weeks imo.

    Its the hope that will get you in the end
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    If this tweet about the line to take is a fake, how did they know so precisely what form the interview took?
    Or is the line about the tweet another fake that one of our (charitably) more credulous posters has fallen for?
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    For anyone wanting to know what Corbyn meant by issuing government bonds to pay for nationalised industries, in reality it means confiscation of private assets. As a young lawyer I inherited the admin of a number of very old trusts. In each one, the trust could not be wound up because the estate included ownership of government bonds, war bonds from WWI. Each year they paid out the equivalent of about £2 10 shillings per quarter but they couldn't be surrendered. In each case the original owner of the bonds had been dead for more than 50 years! It was only in recent years that the Government bought out the remaining value of the bonds to the ultimate heirs and of course in a great many cases the money just went straight back to the Exchequer because either there were no heirs or they couldn't be traced. That is why Corbyn and MacDonnell are keen on them. It is the ultimate form of the never never.

    As for thinking the super rich would willingly pay "a little more tax", that will be a return to Labour in the 1970s when tax went up as high as 90+%. Andrew Neill was quite correct, the super rich will simply leave and take their money with them. Multi-national companies will offshore their registered offices and Corporation Tax revenues will plummet.

    IMO if it was just taxes increasing then they might not move, but with the 10% sharehold scheme as well as other issues they might do so.

    There is also the issue of crowding out on the bond markets for investment to consider, back in 2003ish I worked for a firm that needed a bridging loan of a few million for the weekend as they were due takings on monday but had just made payroll. They struggled due to government borrowing had started to increase and they were the safer bet, now multiply that by a hundred with the current scale of short and long term borrowing Labour are after.
  • Evening, Comrades!

    Have Labour overtaken the Tories in any polls yet? :lol:
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 13,542

    ydoethur said:

    The theory is called 'Reader Response' some people have made up their mind before the interview started.

    Corbyn is doing well at the moment, no major gaffes.

    He’s admitted his whole tax policy is a lie and that the money he will use for increased pensions is insufficient to cover it.
    What would a major gaffe be?
    See:

    If any of the responses follow the details laid out here, then you know where the steer has come from.

    As pointed out the message in the screenshot was written by the person who took the screen shot.

    A rather strange thing to do.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    nico67 said:

    Byronic said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Corbyn was useless at everything. He struggled with every single question. And he struggled calamitously on tax, borrowing and Brexit.

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.
    I think the ratings won’t be as bad as Labour might hope for !

    AN is brutal and pulls apart all politicians, if I was Bozo I’d call in sick !
    The smart thing to do would be to be in there, cameras rolling and then projectile vomit all over Brillo.
    That way he gets sympathy and avoids the charge fo a chicken run.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,958
    edited November 2019

    3.2m now registered to vote since GE called. Still nearly 6m unregistered though

    How does that compare with 2017?

    Incidentally I was on a .gov website the other day and there was a banner at the top inviting anyone to register to vote. My own experience of UK government websites has been surprisingly positive over the last few years, particularly for things like car tax.
    UP by 900k (550k in the 18-35 group)

    4 hrs to go
    The last election in 2017 was merely a year after a big registration push for the EU referendum in 2016. Been another 5 months this time.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.

    The full interview? No. That will probably not change many views. He was dire, but most people who pay attention to such things (on both sides) knew that already.
    What will damage Corbyn are the clips. The refusal to apologise, the admission that ordinary people will pay more tax, and the confession that his WASPI pledge is unaffordable. Those three clips played widely on TV could well hurt Labour badly. Especially the last two as it instantly removes the one area his supporters claim to see an advantage over Johnson, wrong though they are - honesty.
    I think they need to set Javid on that, not Johnson. I need to look up Javid's approval ratings....
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,522

    ydoethur said:



    Byronic said:

    BBC release close up video of Corbyns face when he refuses to apologise for anti-semitism. Brutal.

    With that framing, and particular combination of words and image, that could be a twitter post from the Conservatives.

    Odd.
    Maybe it’s a Zionist cabal inside the Beeb? Try that angle. Might work
    You don't need a zionist cabal to be not doing your job as an independent broadcaster, I think.
    Ummm...news organisation has embarrassing clip of racist politician being impaled over his racism.
    News organisation uses it to illustrate news story that everyone is calling said politician and his party racist.
    Not seeing how that’s a breach of impartiality...
    It comes close for a fairly specific and unusual reason - "no apology for" is quite a common formulation of political advertising. The fact is first taken as read - that's he's guilty - and then shifted to the emotional pitch of refusal to atone, apologise or ameliorate for said fact. A million trashy political ads of both sides of the atlantic have followed this formula of artificial certainty followed by immediate shift to emotion.

    At the very least, it shows how amateurish the BBC has become at times. It should say something along the lines : "Corbyn remains defiant that apology not necessary after anti-semitism charges"
    He didn't say that an apology wasn't necessary. He indulged in classic bluster and whataboutery. He could have acknowledged genuine concerns but dismissed them saying that he had sorted everything. And we all know he hasn't. And won't
  • Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    Ah! So when the elderly support Brexit or vote for the Conservatives then they don’t know what they are doing but the ones who support Mr. Corbyn have the wisdom of years and experience. Thanks for the tip

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 13,787



    As for thinking the super rich would willingly pay "a little more tax", that will be a return to Labour in the 1970s when tax went up as high as 90+%. Andrew Neill was quite correct, the super rich will simply leave and take their money with them. Multi-national companies will offshore their registered offices and Corporation Tax revenues will plummet.

    Capitalism is well and truly fooked as the super rich and multi nationals get greedier and greedier
  • People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 906
    alex_ said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Don't worry they'll keep spinning it. (just look at some of the comments on here).

    The fact that he couldn't understand that government bonds were debt is truly shocking.
    Is there a clip? It’s been clear for several years what Labour mean by “Govt bonds”. They think they can print it. Effectively it’s the “people’s quantitative easing” stuff.
    it was in the middle of the discussion about how to pay for WASPI. (I think, you may have to get it on catchup). AN kept asking if he'd pay for it with debt but he kept answering that he'd issue government bonds
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335

    ydoethur said:



    Byronic said:

    BBC release close up video of Corbyns face when he refuses to apologise for anti-semitism. Brutal.

    With that framing, and particular combination of words and image, that could be a twitter post from the Conservatives.

    Odd.
    Maybe it’s a Zionist cabal inside the Beeb? Try that angle. Might work
    You don't need a zionist cabal to be not doing your job as an independent broadcaster, I think.
    Ummm...news organisation has embarrassing clip of racist politician being impaled over his racism.
    News organisation uses it to illustrate news story that everyone is calling said politician and his party racist.
    Not seeing how that’s a breach of impartiality...
    It comes close for a fairly specific and unusual reason - "no apology for" is quite a common formulation of political advertising. The fact is first taken as read - that's he's guilty - and then shifted to the emotional pitch of refusal to atone, apologise or ameliorate for said fact. A million trashy online political adverts of both sides of the atlantic follow this formula of exaggerated certainty followed by immediate shift to emotion.

    At the very least, it shows how amateurish the BBC has become, at times. It should say something along the lines : "Corbyn remains defiant that apology not necessary after anti-semitism charges"
    That’s even less convincing than the rubbish Corbyn spouted.
    You remind me of the Tory media operation in 1964 who were furious that Home was lit in such a way he looked like a skull. They were invited down to the studios and conducted some experiments. At the end of it, they admitted the problem was he looked like a skull however you lit him.
    Similarly, Corbyn comes across shockingly badly in that clip because he was shockingly bad. It is no part of impartial broadcasting to try and polish a turd.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    What will swing voters think?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 5,679
    Interesting Ashcroft poll
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/

    49% of LD voters would be willing to vote Labour if it was the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.
    I had assumed 50% but turned it right down to 25% after the Grimsby contituency poll.
    I'm notching it up to 30%. It gives
    Con/Lab/LD
    337/216/30
    Tory majority 24
    It is a sensitive assumption.
    If it were 49% then
    330/223/30
    Tory majority 10

  • I have an idea for a major constitutional reform. We scrap PMQs and instead the PM has to explain his/herself to Neil once a week. Our governance would improve.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747
    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Ashcroft poll
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/

    49% of LD voters would be willing to vote Labour if it was the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.
    I had assumed 50% but turned it right down to 25% after the Grimsby contituency poll.
    I'm notching it up to 30%. It gives
    Con/Lab/LD
    337/216/30
    Tory majority 24
    It is a sensitive assumption.
    If it were 49% then
    330/223/30
    Tory majority 10

    These updates are very helpful.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 17,073

    The Hindus (pro) and the Sikhs (against) are piling into the Chief Rabbi’s row with Jeremy Corbyn too now. Just the Jedis left to come and that’s a religious full house. Take a bow, #GE2019 https://t.co/PgOSt3JXGJ

    Don't forget the Catholics and Labour's decriminalisation of abortion. I have yet to hear a peep back from Labour, BTW. How hard can it be to say that Labour will keep existing term limits? If they don't confirm this then I can only assume that they do indeed intend to allow abortion on demand for any reason whatever throughout pregnancy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 4,419
    RobD said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    What will swing voters think?
    Good question. I can see how some people might think Corbyn was the calmer of the two during the interview and therefore would give him the benefit of the doubt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    edited November 2019
    HaroldO said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.

    The full interview? No. That will probably not change many views. He was dire, but most people who pay attention to such things (on both sides) knew that already.
    What will damage Corbyn are the clips. The refusal to apologise, the admission that ordinary people will pay more tax, and the confession that his WASPI pledge is unaffordable. Those three clips played widely on TV could well hurt Labour badly. Especially the last two as it instantly removes the one area his supporters claim to see an advantage over Johnson, wrong though they are - honesty.
    I think they need to set Javid on that, not Johnson. I need to look up Javid's approval ratings....
    But why would they bother to elaborate? The words speak for themselves. No comment needed. He himself said his tax plans are wrongly presented in his manifesto and his WASPI commitment cannot be paid for.
    Just stick that on every billboard and YouTube ad.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,215

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    For someone voting Lib Dem you sure spend a lot of time pushing Labour lines

    Or was the LD vote thing another "mistake"?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    Because it is a coordinated effort by Tory members and activists to implant fear of a labour government into the minds of potential people thinking of using their vote intelligently. The more they can delude into thinking corbyn can win the larger they hope the Tory majority. It is neither eccentric or obsessional just a reflection of what the Tory faithful have been told to do. The next move will be to tell potential labour tactical voters to be principled and vote labour rather than lib dem as they have no chance. Seen it all before and unfortunately it works
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 990
    spudgfsh said:

    alex_ said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Don't worry they'll keep spinning it. (just look at some of the comments on here).

    The fact that he couldn't understand that government bonds were debt is truly shocking.
    Is there a clip? It’s been clear for several years what Labour mean by “Govt bonds”. They think they can print it. Effectively it’s the “people’s quantitative easing” stuff.
    it was in the middle of the discussion about how to pay for WASPI. (I think, you may have to get it on catchup). AN kept asking if he'd pay for it with debt but he kept answering that he'd issue government bonds
    Did Neil point out they were the same thing?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698

    Byronic said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Corbyn was useless at everything. He struggled with every single question. And he struggled calamitously on tax, borrowing and Brexit.

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.
    They don't need to have watched it live. This interview will dominate the headlines over the coming 48 hours. That is where the damage is done.

    No apology over antisemitism (which would have been a very easy win to have taken - and shows where his sympathies really lie)

    No understanding of his own tax lies

    No answer to paying for his WASPI pledge

    No answer on maintaining our security alliances

    Most of these will cut through
    Maybe maybe not. Changing people's mind is a very tall order. Wild horses wouldn't have persuaded me to vote Corbyn 3 weeks ago but now I feel he's been traduced by those with an agenda so will now possibly switch my vote from the Lib Dems. I can't be the only one remembering Maggie's chilling 'enemies within' and It seems four or five prominent newspapers have got it in for Corbyn
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    Byronic said:

    BBC release close up video of Corbyns face when he refuses to apologise for anti-semitism. Brutal.

    With that framing, and particular combination of words and image, that could be a twitter post from the Conservatives.

    Odd.
    Maybe it’s a Zionist cabal inside the Beeb? Try that angle. Might work
    You don't need a zionist cabal to be not doing your job as an independent broadcaster, I think.
    Ummm...news organisation has embarrassing clip of racist politician being impaled over his racism.
    News organisation uses it to illustrate news story that everyone is calling said politician and his party racist.
    Not seeing how that’s a breach of impartiality...
    It comes close for a fairly specific and unusual reason - "no apology for" is quite a common formulation of political advertising. The fact is first taken as read - that's he's guilty - and then shifted to the emotional pitch of refusal to atone, apologise or ameliorate for said fact. A million trashy online political adverts of both sides of the atlantic follow this formula of exaggerated certainty followed by immediate shift to emotion.

    At the very least, it shows how amateurish the BBC has become, at times. It should say something along the lines : "Corbyn remains defiant that apology not necessary after anti-semitism charges"
    That’s even less convincing than the rubbish Corbyn spouted.
    You remind me of the Tory media operation in 1964 who were furious that Home was lit in such a way he looked like a skull. They were invited down to the studios and conducted some experiments. At the end of it, they admitted the problem was he looked like a skull however you lit him.
    Similarly, Corbyn comes across shockingly badly in that clip because he was shockingly bad. It is no part of impartial broadcasting to try and polish a turd.
    oh, I like that skull anecdote
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,958
    edited November 2019
    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Ashcroft poll
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/

    49% of LD voters would be willing to vote Labour if it was the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.
    I had assumed 50% but turned it right down to 25% after the Grimsby contituency poll.
    I'm notching it up to 30%. It gives
    Con/Lab/LD
    337/216/30
    Tory majority 24
    It is a sensitive assumption.
    If it were 49% then
    330/223/30
    Tory majority 10

    2017 LD voters =/= 2019 LD VI
  • I know nothing of Scottish politics

    Ah.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,016
    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    Because it is a coordinated effort by Tory members and activists to implant fear of a labour government into the minds of potential people thinking of using their vote intelligently. The more they can delude into thinking corbyn can win the larger they hope the Tory majority. It is neither eccentric or obsessional just a reflection of what the Tory faithful have been told to do. The next move will be to tell potential labour tactical voters to be principled and vote labour rather than lib dem as they have no chance. Seen it all before and unfortunately it works
    How is it a co-ordinated effort?

    Quite simply, the only two parties with a chance of getting most seats at the next GE and forming a government are the Tories and Labour.

    If Labour become the largest party, thanks in part to people voting Lib Dem over Conservative in Finchley, then it is possible that Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM in a coalition government.

    There is only one way to stop this. And that is to vote Conservative.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,651
    Overall Corbyn came over as irascible, like a naughty schoolboy who didn't think he ought to be in the headmaster's office.

    The example of the pensioner with dividend income was quite an eye-opener; a relatively big tax hike for them. Perhaps the Tories should get some examples worked up - perfect timing for postal votes.

    Boris will also struggle but if he's got any sense he'll keep it light and not let Neil get under his skin.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    Roger said:

    Byronic said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Corbyn was useless at everything. He struggled with every single question. And he struggled calamitously on tax, borrowing and Brexit.

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.
    They don't need to have watched it live. This interview will dominate the headlines over the coming 48 hours. That is where the damage is done.

    No apology over antisemitism (which would have been a very easy win to have taken - and shows where his sympathies really lie)

    No understanding of his own tax lies

    No answer to paying for his WASPI pledge

    No answer on maintaining our security alliances

    Most of these will cut through
    Maybe maybe not. Changing people's mind is a very tall order. Wild horses wouldn't have persuaded me to vote Corbyn 3 weeks ago but now I feel he's been traduced by those with an agenda so will now possibly switch my vote from the Lib Dems. I can't be the only one remembering Maggie's chilling 'enemies within' and It seems four or five prominent newspapers have got it in for Corbyn
    Your falling for their subterfuge that’s what they want you to do, depending where you live.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,317
    edited November 2019
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    Byronic said:

    BBC release close up video of Corbyns face when he refuses to apologise for anti-semitism. Brutal.

    With that framing, and particular combination of words and image, that could be a twitter post from the Conservatives.

    Odd.
    Maybe it’s a Zionist cabal inside the Beeb? Try that angle. Might work
    You don't need a zionist cabal to be not doing your job as an independent broadcaster, I think.
    Ummm...news organisation has embarrassing clip of racist politician being impaled over his racism.
    News organisation uses it to illustrate news story that everyone is calling said politician and his party racist.
    Not seeing how that’s a breach of impartiality...
    It comes close for a fairly specific and unusual reason - "no apology for" is quite a common formulation of political advertising. The fact is first taken as read - that's he's guilty - and then shifted to the emotional pitch of refusal to atone, apologise or ameliorate for said fact. A million trashy online political adverts of both sides of the atlantic follow this formula of exaggerated certainty followed by immediate shift to emotion.

    At the very least, it shows how amateurish the BBC has become, at times. It should say something along the lines : "Corbyn remains defiant that apology not necessary after anti-semitism charges"
    That’s even less convincing than the rubbish Corbyn spouted.
    You remind me of the Tory media operation in 1964 who were furious that Home was lit in such a way he looked like a skull. They were invited down to the studios and conducted some experiments. At the end of it, they admitted the problem was he looked like a skull however you lit him.
    Similarly, Corbyn comes across shockingly badly in that clip because he was shockingly bad. It is no part of impartial broadcasting to try and polish a turd.
    I'm not part of a media operation and have never been a member of the Labour party. This was certainly not a particularly great performance by Corbyn, but that has nothing to do with the increasing sloppiness of the BBC and its lack of awareness of how to maintain a distance from typical political rhetoric in the way its reports are framed. This also affects some of its coverage of identity politics issues from the opposite leftward perspective.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,522
    Roger said:

    Byronic said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Corbyn was useless at everything. He struggled with every single question. And he struggled calamitously on tax, borrowing and Brexit.

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.
    They don't need to have watched it live. This interview will dominate the headlines over the coming 48 hours. That is where the damage is done.

    No apology over antisemitism (which would have been a very easy win to have taken - and shows where his sympathies really lie)

    No understanding of his own tax lies

    No answer to paying for his WASPI pledge

    No answer on maintaining our security alliances

    Most of these will cut through
    Maybe maybe not. Changing people's mind is a very tall order. Wild horses wouldn't have persuaded me to vote Corbyn 3 weeks ago but now I feel he's been traduced by those with an agenda so will now possibly switch my vote from the Lib Dems. I can't be the only one remembering Maggie's chilling 'enemies within' and It seems four or five prominent newspapers have got it in for Corbyn
    If you believe that, then you truly are an imbecile. You are indulging in fantasy conspiracy theories with no foundation.

    Corbyn was skewered tonight on the basis of his own words, actions, positions and friendships. None of that is manufactured. None of that is someone pushing a secret agenda. It is exposing him for what he has said, done and promised.
  • Floater said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    For someone voting Lib Dem you sure spend a lot of time pushing Labour lines

    Or was the LD vote thing another "mistake"?
    I’m only voting Lib Dem because Labour in this seat is pointless. If Labour was worth it I’d vote for them. I’m not a LD fan at all.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 906
    spudgfsh said:

    alex_ said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Don't worry they'll keep spinning it. (just look at some of the comments on here).

    The fact that he couldn't understand that government bonds were debt is truly shocking.
    Is there a clip? It’s been clear for several years what Labour mean by “Govt bonds”. They think they can print it. Effectively it’s the “people’s quantitative easing” stuff.
    it was in the middle of the discussion about how to pay for WASPI. (I think, you may have to get it on catchup). AN kept asking if he'd pay for it with debt but he kept answering that he'd issue government bonds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000bqpt/the-andrew-neil-interviews-election-2019-jeremy-corbyn

    starts at 20 minutes
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,200
    edited November 2019
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    Goodness, don't you ever get bored? You must post some variant on this a couple of times a week, and don't ever to seem to read or notice the many, many answers it generates.

    OK, I've bitten, so here goes, even though you won't see this:
    1) Refusal by his office to allow due process with cases of anti-Semitism, overruling/obstructing the disciplinary committee
    2) Failure to chuck out Ken Livingstone, and repeated attempts to save Chris Williamson
    3) Ironygate
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335

    I'm not part of a media operation and have never been a member of the Labour party. This was certainly not a particularly performance by Corbyn, but that has nothing to do with the increasing sloppiness of the BBC and its lack of awareness of how to maintain a distance from typical political rhetoric in the way reports are framed. This also affects some of its coverage of identity politics issues from the opposite leftward perspective.

    Showing him IN HIS OWN WORDS is political rhetoric?!
    I’m afraid your claims on impartiality are not convincing.
  • Back to registration now, Corbyn was in control and answered difficult questions in a straightforward manner.

    I can't imagine how Johnson will cope, he may send someone else. I will be watching with nervous dread.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    All and every example
    It isn't reasonable to slander someone as a racist and then not even be able to produce a single example. In fct it's pathetic. No use posing as a great moral force on here when all you are is bluster.
  • RobD said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    What will swing voters think?
    They'll never see it.
  • isamisam Posts: 30,713
    Does anyone know if @Scott_P is ok? He hasn't posted or been on the site for weeks. As he usually posts about 50 times a day, that seems a little worrying
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 25,383
    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Pure spin. Labour will be a poor third and aren’t in the running in Finchley
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    Endillion said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    Goodness, don't you ever get bored? You must post some variant on this a couple of times a week, and don't ever to seem to read or notice the many, many answers it generates.

    OK, I've bitten, so here goes, even though you won't see this:
    1) Refusal by his office to allow due process with cases of anti-Semitism, overruling/obstructing the disciplinary committee
    2) Failure to chuck out Ken Livingstone, and repeated attempts to save Chris Williamson
    3) Ironygate
    Appointing Jenny Formby as General Secretary despite a long history of anti Semitic activism was a pretty bad one as well.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 4,419

    Floater said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    For someone voting Lib Dem you sure spend a lot of time pushing Labour lines

    Or was the LD vote thing another "mistake"?
    I’m only voting Lib Dem because Labour in this seat is pointless. If Labour was worth it I’d vote for them. I’m not a LD fan at all.
    I'd probably vote Labour in NE Hampshire if they were my first choice because the LDs don't have a realistic chance of winning the seat since it's one of the safest Tory seats in the country. It would be different in a seat which the LDs could plausibly win like Wimbledon or Wokingham.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 13,787
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    The theory is called 'Reader Response' some people have made up their mind before the interview started.

    Corbyn is doing well at the moment, no major gaffes.

    He’s admitted his whole tax policy is a lie and that the money he will use for increased pensions is insufficient to cover it.
    What would a major gaffe be?
    See:

    If any of the responses follow the details laid out here, then you know where the steer has come from.

    As pointed out the message in the screenshot was written by the person who took the screen shot.

    A rather strange thing to do.
    John Stevens fake news
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318
    isam said:

    Does anyone know if @Scott_P is ok? He hasn't posted or been on the site for weeks. As he usually posts about 50 times a day, that seems a little worrying

    I think the last time he was away for a while it turned out he was away on holiday.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    ydoethur said:

    HaroldO said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.

    The full interview? No. That will probably not change many views. He was dire, but most people who pay attention to such things (on both sides) knew that already.
    What will damage Corbyn are the clips. The refusal to apologise, the admission that ordinary people will pay more tax, and the confession that his WASPI pledge is unaffordable. Those three clips played widely on TV could well hurt Labour badly. Especially the last two as it instantly removes the one area his supporters claim to see an advantage over Johnson, wrong though they are - honesty.
    I think they need to set Javid on that, not Johnson. I need to look up Javid's approval ratings....
    But why would they bother to elaborate? The words speak for themselves. No comment needed. He himself said his tax plans are wrongly presented in his manifesto and his WASPI commitment cannot be paid for.
    Just stick that on every billboard and YouTube ad.
    You need a face beside it, here and there.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    Byronic said:

    BBC release close up video of Corbyns face when he refuses to apologise for anti-semitism. Brutal.

    With that framing, and particular combination of words and image, that could be a twitter post from the Conservatives.

    Odd.
    Maybe it’s a Zionist cabal inside the Beeb? Try that angle. Might work
    You don't need a zionist cabal to be not doing your job as an independent broadcaster, I think.
    Ummm...news organisation has embarrassing clip of racist politician being impaled over his racism.
    News organisation uses it to illustrate news story that everyone is calling said politician and his party racist.
    Not seeing how that’s a breach of impartiality...
    It comes close for a fairly specific and unusual reason - "no apology for" is quite a common formulation of political advertising. The fact is first taken as read - that's he's guilty - and then shifted to the emotional pitch of refusal to atone, apologise or ameliorate for said fact. A million trashy online political adverts of both sides of the atlantic follow this formula of exaggerated certainty followed by immediate shift to emotion.

    At the very least, it shows how amateurish the BBC has become, at times. It should say something along the lines : "Corbyn remains defiant that apology not necessary after anti-semitism charges"
    That’s even less convincing than the rubbish Corbyn spouted.
    You remind me of the Tory media operation in 1964 who were furious that Home was lit in such a way he looked like a skull. They were invited down to the studios and conducted some experiments. At the end of it, they admitted the problem was he looked like a skull however you lit him.
    Similarly, Corbyn comes across shockingly badly in that clip because he was shockingly bad. It is no part of impartial broadcasting to try and polish a turd.
    Exactly. They framed it as "he gave no apology" because the question was whether he would give an apology. This is how its been all along with Corbyn. He refused to acknowledge the problem and refuses to accept his role in it. Because he genuinely doesn't see the stuff he and his followers have said and done as anti-Semitic.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 5,679

    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Ashcroft poll
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/

    49% of LD voters would be willing to vote Labour if it was the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.
    I had assumed 50% but turned it right down to 25% after the Grimsby contituency poll.
    I'm notching it up to 30%. It gives
    Con/Lab/LD
    337/216/30
    Tory majority 24
    It is a sensitive assumption.
    If it were 49% then
    330/223/30
    Tory majority 10

    2017 LD voters =/= 2019 LD VI
    I know. How would you modify the assumption to adjust it to 2019 LD VI? Any suggestions welcomed. Would you expect a larger proportion or a smaller proportion and why? In the meantime, it's the best I've got. I'm only amending my assumption up from 25% to 30%. I'm not going the whole hog up to 49%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    HaroldO said:

    ydoethur said:

    HaroldO said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.

    The full interview? No. That will probably not change many views. He was dire, but most people who pay attention to such things (on both sides) knew that already.
    What will damage Corbyn are the clips. The refusal to apologise, the admission that ordinary people will pay more tax, and the confession that his WASPI pledge is unaffordable. Those three clips played widely on TV could well hurt Labour badly. Especially the last two as it instantly removes the one area his supporters claim to see an advantage over Johnson, wrong though they are - honesty.
    I think they need to set Javid on that, not Johnson. I need to look up Javid's approval ratings....
    But why would they bother to elaborate? The words speak for themselves. No comment needed. He himself said his tax plans are wrongly presented in his manifesto and his WASPI commitment cannot be paid for.
    Just stick that on every billboard and YouTube ad.
    You need a face beside it, here and there.
    Corbyn getting out of the Porsche would do, I would have thought.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,522
    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    Goodness, don't you ever get bored? You must post some variant on this a couple of times a week, and don't ever to seem to read or notice the many, many answers it generates.

    OK, I've bitten, so here goes, even though you won't see this:
    1) Refusal by his office to allow due process with cases of anti-Semitism, overruling/obstructing the disciplinary committee
    2) Failure to chuck out Ken Livingstone, and repeated attempts to save Chris Williamson
    3) Ironygate
    Appointing Jenny Formby as General Secretary despite a long history of anti Semitic activism was a pretty bad one as well.
    I think the icing on the cake is today's event - sharing a platform with a number of current candidates with long track records of anti-Semitic postings/sympathies. How can he be taken seriously on this issue when he continues to associate with known offenders in this area?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,200
    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    Because it is a coordinated effort by Tory members and activists to implant fear of a labour government into the minds of potential people thinking of using their vote intelligently. The more they can delude into thinking corbyn can win the larger they hope the Tory majority. It is neither eccentric or obsessional just a reflection of what the Tory faithful have been told to do. The next move will be to tell potential labour tactical voters to be principled and vote labour rather than lib dem as they have no chance. Seen it all before and unfortunately it works
    So I'm a troll, because I'm not complacent about a Tory landslide, less than two years after a much-heralded landslide evaporated due to the polls being wrong?
    Do I have to actively encourage people to vote Lib Dem, or would you be content if I merely stopped canvassing?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,481

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    We agree. *faints* :D
  • ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    Goodness, don't you ever get bored? You must post some variant on this a couple of times a week, and don't ever to seem to read or notice the many, many answers it generates.

    OK, I've bitten, so here goes, even though you won't see this:
    1) Refusal by his office to allow due process with cases of anti-Semitism, overruling/obstructing the disciplinary committee
    2) Failure to chuck out Ken Livingstone, and repeated attempts to save Chris Williamson
    3) Ironygate
    Appointing Jenny Formby as General Secretary despite a long history of anti Semitic activism was a pretty bad one as well.
    You do get the impression Corbyn is a prisoner of the NEC.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,368
    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    We always have rampers on here at election time, new posters who disappear on the bong at 10 o'clock on polling day.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,054
    Stick a fork in him. Corbyn’s done.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747
    Roger said:

    Byronic said:

    Jason said:

    Neil not only exposed Corbyn's anti Semitism, he also brutally exposed his jaw dropping economic illiteracy, which will probably do more damage than the racism. That section about the taxes is going to come back and haunt Labour. Deeply damaging interview, appalling timing if you're a Labour supporter, but I think even the most ardent apologist would have trouble spinning that one.

    Corbyn was useless at everything. He struggled with every single question. And he struggled calamitously on tax, borrowing and Brexit.

    That should be a game changer. But will anyone watch it? Does anyone care? Hmm.
    They don't need to have watched it live. This interview will dominate the headlines over the coming 48 hours. That is where the damage is done.

    No apology over antisemitism (which would have been a very easy win to have taken - and shows where his sympathies really lie)

    No understanding of his own tax lies

    No answer to paying for his WASPI pledge

    No answer on maintaining our security alliances

    Most of these will cut through
    Maybe maybe not. Changing people's mind is a very tall order. Wild horses wouldn't have persuaded me to vote Corbyn 3 weeks ago but now I feel he's been traduced by those with an agenda so will now possibly switch my vote from the Lib Dems. I can't be the only one remembering Maggie's chilling 'enemies within' and It seems four or five prominent newspapers have got it in for Corbyn
    Those shadowy figures "with an agenda". Hmmmm.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,481
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Does anyone know if @Scott_P is ok? He hasn't posted or been on the site for weeks. As he usually posts about 50 times a day, that seems a little worrying

    I think the last time he was away for a while it turned out he was away on holiday.
    These multi-millionaire Remainers jetting about around the world for weeks one end... ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    Courts having yet another busy day:
    Jo Swinson wins court bid to stop SNP 'fracking' leaflet
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50565209
    Do we know when there will be a verdict in the Turley case?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 13,787

    3.2m now registered to vote since GE called. Still nearly 6m unregistered though

    How does that compare with 2017?

    Incidentally I was on a .gov website the other day and there was a banner at the top inviting anyone to register to vote. My own experience of UK government websites has been surprisingly positive over the last few years, particularly for things like car tax.
    UP by 900k (550k in the 18-35 group)

    4 hrs to go
    The last election in 2017 was merely a year after a big registration push for the EU referendum in 2016. Been another 5 months this time.
    Good point old register
  • It wasn’t an unreasonable assessment of the interview though.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 10,319
    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    I would say the worst three for me are probably these, though there are so many to choose from it's tricky to narrow it down to so few.

    - Inviting a blood-libeller to "well-deserved" tea on the Commons terrace and saying Jewish organisations protesting against it were "whipping up hysteria" and that it was "time that Western governments stood up to the Zionist lobby".
    - Laying a wreath for those who commissioned a terror attack murdering and castrating Jewish civilians, and proudly writing about it in the Morning Star.
    - Continuing to associate with and financially support Paul Eisen, long after the mask of Eisen's pro-Palestinianism slipped and the Holocaust Denial underneath came to the surface.
  • Liberal Party Election Broadcast being shown now on Scottish Television featuring individuals across England. That will go down like a bag of sick across Scotland. Even SLAB managed to have one featuring Richard Leonard. The SCons ones have featured SCon MPs and MSPs.

    I have no time for them, but suspect their target audience isn't parochial enough to react in that way for the most part.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    When Boris sits down,Andrew Neil is going to go after 1. Trust, 2. Women. 3. Letterboxes and 4. Do or due,Brexit by end 2020

    It will be painful;
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335

    Stick a fork in him. Corbyn’s done.

    How many times have we thought that in the last three and a half years? He’s like a vampire. Every time you think he’s gone, back he comes, ready for some more bloodsucking.
  • Stick a fork in him. Corbyn’s done.

    On a scale of 1 to Prince Andrew, how was it?
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Miriam Margolyes excellent on Ch 4 News in defence of Jeremy Corbyn. I happen to know her and she is a woman of the utmost integrity and what's more unlike most commentators on this subject by virtue of her age and history she knows what she's talking about.

    There is no defence for Corbyn
    Would you like to list the instances of anti semitism that particularly offend you? Two or three will do.
    All and every example
    It isn't reasonable to slander someone as a racist and then not even be able to produce a single example. In fct it's pathetic. No use posing as a great moral force on here when all you are is bluster.
    I will give you five

    - Commemorating the death of a Jew killing terrorist
    - Liking an obviously anti-Semitic mural painted by an anti-Semite
    - Endorsing an anti-Semitic book as a great work
    - Calling openly anti-Semitic terrorist groups his friends
    - Saying he can't comment on anti-Semitic complaints as the process must be independent while his office interferes to protect anti-Semites
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 4,419
    edited November 2019
    Useless facts:
    Andrew Neil dob = 21st May 1949.
    Jeremy Corbyn dob = 26th May 1949.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,528
    edited November 2019
    Today's YouGov doesn't suggest much WASPI impact:
    18-24: Con 11, Lab 59
    25-49: Con 34, Lab 40
    50-64: Con 48, Lab 25
    65+: Con 66, Lab 15
    That looks like a pretty straight line as age increases - no sign Lab has gained amongst people born in 1950s - ie age range 59 to 69.
  • Foxy said:

    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    We always have rampers on here at election time, new posters who disappear on the bong at 10 o'clock on polling day.
    I don't necessarily agree with what either Endillion or Nichomar are posting but I think it is unfair to class either of them as rampers just turning up for the election. They have both been regular posters on PB for a good amount of time and discuss any and everything just like the rest of us.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    Endillion said:

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    Because it is a coordinated effort by Tory members and activists to implant fear of a labour government into the minds of potential people thinking of using their vote intelligently. The more they can delude into thinking corbyn can win the larger they hope the Tory majority. It is neither eccentric or obsessional just a reflection of what the Tory faithful have been told to do. The next move will be to tell potential labour tactical voters to be principled and vote labour rather than lib dem as they have no chance. Seen it all before and unfortunately it works
    So I'm a troll, because I'm not complacent about a Tory landslide, less than two years after a much-heralded landslide evaporated due to the polls being wrong?
    Do I have to actively encourage people to vote Lib Dem, or would you be content if I merely stopped canvassing?
    Canvas as much as you want but stop telling people that voting anything other than Tory is a vote for labour, it isn’t and you know it isn't. The only vote for a corbyn government is for corbynin a lab con marginal in which if they win three they will be lucky, the Tory party are going to win 60+ From labour so relax.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    Will that be your line to take once Boris, has been renamed a new one? I suspect not.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,368

    Liberal Party Election Broadcast being shown now on Scottish Television featuring individuals across England. That will go down like a bag of sick across Scotland. Even SLAB managed to have one featuring Richard Leonard. The SCons ones have featured SCon MPs and MSPs.

    I have no time for them, but suspect their target audience isn't parochial enough to react in that way for the most part.
    Indeed, surely Scottish unionists like to feel part of a nationwide party :)
  • GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Does anyone know if @Scott_P is ok? He hasn't posted or been on the site for weeks. As he usually posts about 50 times a day, that seems a little worrying

    I think the last time he was away for a while it turned out he was away on holiday.
    These multi-millionaire Remainers jetting about around the world for weeks one end... ;)
    Have sent him an email. Will notify PB of any response.
  • isamisam Posts: 30,713
    edited November 2019
    Andy_JS said:

    Useless facts:
    Andrew Neil dob = 21st May 1949.
    Jeremy Corbyn dob = 26th May 1949.

    Jezza's an Arsenal fan and his 40th birthday was the day we won 2-0 at Anfield to clinch the league title in the last minute of the season.
    I bet he sank a few tomato juices THAT Friday night!
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 906

    Stick a fork in him. Corbyn’s done.

    On a scale of 1 to Prince Andrew, how was it?
    A double Andrew...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,131

    RobD said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    What will swing voters think?
    They'll never see it.
    Quite. One wonders how much impact any of these set pieces will make. Besides, from what little I've read Corbyn seemed to struggle most on Labour's fantasy spending plans, and his target voters don't appear at all interested in whether or not the sums add up. All they're thinking is that their pockets will be stuffed with someone else's money, and what a marvellous thing this is.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,200
    IanB2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Pure spin. Labour will be a poor third and aren’t in the running in Finchley
    Maybe. Lib Dems lost their deposit in 15, and only just got it back in 17. They have no history of doing well in the seat.
    But that isn't even the point. If Labour are the largest party, or even if they are a close second, Corbyn gets first shot at forming a government. I don't trust Swinson not to renege on her promise not to allow that, especially once the clock starts ticking on No Deal 31 Jan. And I have no idea what Berger does if Swinson signs up to some loose C&S deal with Corbyn on a bill-by-bill basis. Nor, it seems, do many others. The only way to prevent that is to maximise the number of Tory MPs.
    Remember that for Jews it's Corbyn having the legitimacy of being PM that is scary, not the ability to implement his manifesto.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,522

    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
    Boris is better suited to handling hostile interviewers than Corbyn. He might bluster, play the buffoon and make big gestures - but he is still better equipped than Corbyn at dealing with hostility.

    Corbyn is only comfortable when he is surrounded by those in his bubble. And whilst he did - just about - hold it together tonight, you could see the anger in his eyes, the deep sighs, the eye rolling and the lack of courtesy at the end.

    Boris will quite rightly face tough questions but he will almost certainly handle it better. Whether you believe him or like him is for another time - but he will not let it get away from him as Corbyn did tonight.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,311

    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
    If people are used to AN interviewing style then watching they’ll probably be more forgiving . As a Labour supporter I have no problems with AN eviscerating Corbyn , he does it to all politicians.

    I have no time for people ranting at AN , hes there to do a job and does it brilliantly .
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,528
    YouGov has 3% of Con 2017 voters switching to Lab - so WASPI can't be moving many people from Con to Lab.
    In contrast, 12% of Lab 2017 voters are switching to Con.
  • MikeL said:

    YouGov has 3% of Con 2017 voters switching to Lab - so WASPI can't be moving many people from Con to Lab.
    In contrast, 12% of Lab 2017 voters are switching to Con.

    It's a play for Labour Leavers and undecided voters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335

    RobD said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    What will swing voters think?
    They'll never see it.
    Quite. One wonders how much impact any of these set pieces will make. Besides, from what little I've read Corbyn seemed to struggle most on Labour's fantasy spending plans, and his target voters don't appear at all interested in whether or not the sums add up. All they're thinking is that their pockets will be stuffed with someone else's money, and what a marvellous thing this is.
    One reason why this was potentially very damaging is he admitted they will pay higher taxes, which he defended as being necessary for good public services.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197

    Stick a fork in him. Corbyn’s done.

    On a scale of 1 to Prince Andrew, how was it?
    It was Andrew - with Epstein turning up part way through with a fifteen year old girl.....
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 906
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
    If people are used to AN interviewing style then watching they’ll probably be more forgiving . As a Labour supporter I have no problems with AN eviscerating Corbyn , he does it to all politicians.

    I have no time for people ranting at AN , hes there to do a job and does it brilliantly .
    The thing is, that's about as much of an evisceration as I've seen from AN against any top politician.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 26,335
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
    If people are used to AN interviewing style then watching they’ll probably be more forgiving . As a Labour supporter I have no problems with AN eviscerating Corbyn , he does it to all politicians.

    I have no time for people ranting at AN , hes there to do a job and does it brilliantly .
    And he did it to Sturgeon and he will do it to Johnson.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747

    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
    Boris is better suited to handling hostile interviewers than Corbyn. He might bluster, play the buffoon and make big gestures - but he is still better equipped than Corbyn at dealing with hostility.

    Corbyn is only comfortable when he is surrounded by those in his bubble. And whilst he did - just about - hold it together tonight, you could see the anger in his eyes, the deep sighs, the eye rolling and the lack of courtesy at the end.

    Boris will quite rightly face tough questions but he will almost certainly handle it better. Whether you believe him or like him is for another time - but he will not let it get away from him as Corbyn did tonight.
    Andrew Neill is near universally praised. I wonder why other journalists aren't as merciless.
  • RobD said:

    People who hate Corbyn will think it was terrible, those who don’t won’t. This will make zero difference.

    What will swing voters think?
    They'll never see it.
    Quite. One wonders how much impact any of these set pieces will make. Besides, from what little I've read Corbyn seemed to struggle most on Labour's fantasy spending plans, and his target voters don't appear at all interested in whether or not the sums add up. All they're thinking is that their pockets will be stuffed with someone else's money, and what a marvellous thing this is.
    Well, I have not bothered watching any of them so they will not be influencing my vote.
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:


    A horrible half hour for Labour but I doubt Bozo will fair much better .

    Fair. Boris is going to be destroyed. Anything less would seem like partiality on Neil's side.
    If people are used to AN interviewing style then watching they’ll probably be more forgiving . As a Labour supporter I have no problems with AN eviscerating Corbyn , he does it to all politicians.

    I have no time for people ranting at AN , hes there to do a job and does it brilliantly .
    He is one of the few left who still know the basis of good interviewing is to be absolutely on top of the brief. You need to know as much, if not more, about every subject under discussion than the interviewee and to be able to present it cogently. Too many interviewers these days are not willing to put in the hard work before the interview to get that depth of knowledge. That is why politicians are able to get away with obfuscation and outright lies.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 1,409

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Does anyone know if @Scott_P is ok? He hasn't posted or been on the site for weeks. As he usually posts about 50 times a day, that seems a little worrying

    I think the last time he was away for a while it turned out he was away on holiday.
    These multi-millionaire Remainers jetting about around the world for weeks one end... ;)
    Have sent him an email. Will notify PB of any response.
    rcs claimed to have banned him for disrespect to radiohead. I assumed at the time he was joking...
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,061
    edited November 2019

    Foxy said:

    Byronic said:

    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Voting lib dem does not get corbyn stop you lying trolling the gap between both of the other parties is huge with the two toss pots running them if they won’t change their leader then there is no c+s but corbyn is going to be sub 200 so stop shifting yourself and stop ramping
    What is this eccentric obsession with ‘ramping’? You bang on about it so much people just ignore you.
    We always have rampers on here at election time, new posters who disappear on the bong at 10 o'clock on polling day.
    I don't necessarily agree with what either Endillion or Nichomar are posting but I think it is unfair to class either of them as rampers just turning up for the election. They have both been regular posters on PB for a good amount of time and discuss any and everything just like the rest of us.
    Thank you Richard, never hidden my party allegiance or the fact that I live abroad. This will be the last election, I think, that I will be able to vote in unless there is another one before 2021. Yes I’m biased and rely on my children and this site for my information. It provides me with a very useful outlet for the lonely hours that otherwise would be more difficult so am quite happy to have whatever shit you throw at me to keep me busy before bedtime😁
  • Endillion said:

    IanB2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Anecdotal, but signs in Finchley & GG are that the message is sinking in: vote Berger, get Corbyn. Besides which, they have precious little base support to build from, and (beyond lots of leaflets) have been pretty invisible so far.

    Similar logic should help see the Tories home in next door Hendon as well.

    Pure spin. Labour will be a poor third and aren’t in the running in Finchley
    Maybe. Lib Dems lost their deposit in 15, and only just got it back in 17. They have no history of doing well in the seat.
    But that isn't even the point. If Labour are the largest party, or even if they are a close second, Corbyn gets first shot at forming a government. I don't trust Swinson not to renege on her promise not to allow that, especially once the clock starts ticking on No Deal 31 Jan. And I have no idea what Berger does if Swinson signs up to some loose C&S deal with Corbyn on a bill-by-bill basis. Nor, it seems, do many others. The only way to prevent that is to maximise the number of Tory MPs.
    Remember that for Jews it's Corbyn having the legitimacy of being PM that is scary, not the ability to implement his manifesto.
    " If Labour are the largest party, or even if they are a close second...."

    Since this is a betting-oriented political site may I suggest you check out the odds against these improbable scenarios. It may make you a tad less hysterical.
This discussion has been closed.