Oh FFS, here we go, the regret narrative like after the referendum.
It's of course bollocks.
In the East Midlands Rowley and Bradley have turned their narrow gains from last time into fortresses. My seat Bassetlaw has done it all in one go ! Bolsover isnt coming back to Labour in a hurry would be my guess
A lot of people voted against Corbyn rather than in favour of Boris. Where they had a viable alternative (Scotland) they grabbed it. What happens next depends on what Boris and the Labour party choose to do.
What an odious man. Fight them with all you've got, I hope many do, and I get he is rallying his faithful, but tone it down a notch.
Would be interesting to do some maths on how the "Labour 203" stack up.
How many of them have served in government? And in cabinet? This number must have seriously dwindled. How many survivors from the Miliband shadow cabinet?
Of those MPs who have been elected before and so we have data on their parliamentary votes (not perfect but can be number-crunched to give a sense of position on the left-right scale) how do they stand on the political spectrum compared to Labour's MPs from 2017, 2015 and 2010? Has the parliamentary party headed leftwards like its membership base? (Would be interesting to know also who surviving MPs had backed in both of Corbyn's leadership contests.)
Of the first-time MPs - where did they come from? The spadlands, private sector, public sector, third sector, the unions? How does that compare to 2017, 2015, 2010? Do we know how many of them are signed-up/endorsed Corbynistas?
I agree perceptive, in particular on the antisemitism issue. Channelling my Talleyrand, tolerating antisemitism was not so much wrong as stupid. Particularly given Corbyn is probably less racist than Johnson. The key point is that Corbyn is very self-indulgent. A serious and self disciplined politician would never have let the issue become a problem.
I wonder if, when Patel (assuming she is still in post) is looking for something to do she might have a major go at the electoral system. New Boundary Commission for example, but also tighter rules on postal voting as in some countries no Opinion Polls in the last few days, to discourage Tactical Voting.
Electoral reform is something everybody can get behind...
1. Making the constituencies as fair as is reasonably possible.
2. Ensuring the integrity of the electoral process whilst still enabling those who genuinely can't get to a polling station to still use a postal vote.
Neither of these things are contentious in my view.
Even better if we had a fair voting system. But no chance of that, especially with Patel in post.
It needs Labour to back it and put it in their manifesto - then become largest party but no majority. So, don't hold your breath.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
Call me old fashioned but I always cringe when I hear fervent Labour supporters with names like Jody hyphenated anything. This bloke reassures my prejudice.
Random musings: 1. Chris Williamson's lost deposit and mere hundreds of votes... 2. What happened to Amol Rajan and his social media updates, shown early on BBC and never seen again? 3. No Owen Jones, Bastani or Blakeney on BBC coverage - hopefully they will fade away? 4. Last time Mark Francois is allowed in front of a national TV camera if Boris has any sense. Berlin Wall = Red Wall, was he on something? 5. V Sad Berger didn't win the F & GG seat. 6. John Mann, Ian Austin, John Woodcock et al should get humble apologies from their former moderate colleagues. 7. Twitter really is pointless for judging the public mood. 8. Corbyn protege Pidcock goes yet with no TV cameras even there to capture it seemingly. 9. OGH seemingly voted Labour after everything that he'd said before about Corbyn's A/S. Or did I get that wrong?
Owen Jones was on ITV, undergoing a series of personal tragedies on live television.
There were a few places where cameras hadn't been sent - Blyth Valley was another - where presumably the television networks thought them just too improbable losses.
Blyth valley was on BBC and was an extremely early sign of things to come.
I've done my sums and I'm up either £2.2K or £2.3K, depending on the final St Ives result. The odd thing is that I didn't really bet very much on the main result. I had a couple of dozen constituency bets, which went very well indeed sometimes at quite good odds, and a sell of the LibDems on the spreads at 45, which was obviously a nice one. I also did very well on SPIN's 25-10-0 markets - I looked for cases where the third-ranked party had little chance of coming second but was priced at between 3 and 6 points in most cases (9.5 in the case of the LibDems in Putney!!) and sold them, making a profit on all the seats I went for. Also turnout, zero seats for the BXP, less than 5 for PC, and Alistair's late tip on SNP under 55.5.
I wonder if, when Patel (assuming she is still in post) is looking for something to do she might have a major go at the electoral system. New Boundary Commission for example, but also tighter rules on postal voting as in some countries no Opinion Polls in the last few days, to discourage Tactical Voting.
Electoral reform is something everybody can get behind...
1. Making the constituencies as fair as is reasonably possible.
2. Ensuring the integrity of the electoral process whilst still enabling those who genuinely can't get to a polling station to still use a postal vote.
Neither of these things are contentious in my view.
I'm not sure what is wrong with tactical voting as such. I suspect a lot of labour voters voted tory because of Corbyn, rather than pro Johnson. (little do they know..).
When you have an unfair voting system the only thing left for minority parties is tactical voting!
‘ The Labour Party has consistently misjudged the mood of the electorate. The party is fixated on the negative; cuts, austerity, poverty etc. We have forgotten that there are lots of people who are sort of doing OK. In fact the Resolution Foundation found recently that people in the UK have never been happier, more here. What is the Labour Party’s message for happy people, people who are doing OK, people who want to get on and enjoy their lives? How do we combine our vital message on social and economic justice with the need to serve people who aren’t living precarious lives?“
This! Labour had got itself into the cul de sac of seeking more and more outrage. Ramping up the notion of poverty Britain. You were either a billionaire or living in squaller surviving off food banks.
For most people life is pretty good. Fuel prices haven’t increased for years, energy prices dropped, low interest rates, full employment wage rises filtering through.
Normal hard working people often see right through this.
People haven't voted Tory out of contentment this time, especially not in the northern seats. They both feared Corbyn, and hope for a lot from Brexit.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
I think working with Theresa May to enable any Brexit would probably have meant another leadership challenge, and there's a decent chance he would have lost.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
I think working with Theresa May to enable any Brexit would probably have meant another leadership challenge, and there's a decent chance he would have lost.
Would still have been better for the Labour Party and probably his project.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
I think working with Theresa May to enable any Brexit would probably have meant another leadership challenge, and there's a decent chance he would have lost.
It might have meant more Labour --> TIG defections -- and certainly more discontent from the Ultra-Remainer MPs.
‘ The Labour Party has consistently misjudged the mood of the electorate. The party is fixated on the negative; cuts, austerity, poverty etc. We have forgotten that there are lots of people who are sort of doing OK. In fact the Resolution Foundation found recently that people in the UK have never been happier, more here. What is the Labour Party’s message for happy people, people who are doing OK, people who want to get on and enjoy their lives? How do we combine our vital message on social and economic justice with the need to serve people who aren’t living precarious lives?“
This! Labour had got itself into the cul de sac of seeking more and more outrage. Ramping up the notion of poverty Britain. You were either a billionaire or living in squaller surviving off food banks.
For most people life is pretty good. Fuel prices haven’t increased for years, energy prices dropped, low interest rates, full employment wage rises filtering through.
Normal hard working people often see right through this.
People haven't voted Tory out of contentment this time, especially not in the northern seats. They both feared Corbyn, and hope for a lot from Brexit.
Indeed, and to some extent at least Labour lost seats like Blyth Valley because of the Brexit Party vote, not the Tories. If the Brexit Party vote goes back to it's natural home (assumption..... may or may not be justified) in five years, then seats such as this will go back to Labour. Johnson is right when he says those votes were 'lent' to him to Get Brexit Done!
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
I think working with Theresa May to enable any Brexit would probably have meant another leadership challenge, and there's a decent chance he would have lost.
Would still have been better for the Labour Party and probably his project.
Possibly, it's hard to say. I think Labour would have lost a lot to the Lib Dems had they enabled Brexit. I do think a soft Brexit would have been best, but the country is polarized and there isn't room to compromise on this issue.
Corbyn will presumably want to stay on until his important work tackling anti-semitism in the party is complete.
Or perhaps he''l become president in perpetuity or something, with two co-leaders who embrace diametrically opposite views as I think was the suggestion.
Strange how crap Labour are at dealing with defeat - especially since they've had so much recent practice.
A touch unfair. I am sure people are tired and in shock this morning. The next few days are important, but right now they deserve some slack.
Sorry for slow reply (I mainly assume my comments are ignored, much as they should be)
Sure - I wan't making a point here though - these things are true or plausible.
I have no sympathy for the far left - they planned to ruin me after all.
What a perfectly balanced breakfast. Huge respect to whoever prepared that.
The perfect blend of wet and dry ingredients. Black Pudding.
Perfect.
fried bread AND toast - that's just plain greedy.
Attending a pub lunch in my old home town, Forfar, someone ordered Macaroni and Chips - the waitress asked if they'd like some buttered bread with that?
Johnson has fairly quick decisions to make. His deal, which is more like Canada than Norway, on its own will have negative consequences for his new manafacturing constituencies in a pretty short space of time. He will have to mitigate this with new policies tailored to those areas to have any hope of retaining this bloc.
His massive majority means he can bin off the ERG and now deliver a Brexit that works. Anyone considered this? Johnson isn't stupid. Johnson isn't a headbanger. Johnson looks at all these red wall seats he's won and knows they will abandon him fast if Baker et al insist on a crushing Brexit deal that utterly demolishes places like Don Valley.
So I don't think he will. Farage neutered. ERG neutered. Watch Johnson tack towards sanity now and do a deal that they'll hate.
I wonder if, when Patel (assuming she is still in post) is looking for something to do she might have a major go at the electoral system. New Boundary Commission for example, but also tighter rules on postal voting as in some countries no Opinion Polls in the last few days, to discourage Tactical Voting.
Electoral reform is something everybody can get behind...
1. Making the constituencies as fair as is reasonably possible.
2. Ensuring the integrity of the electoral process whilst still enabling those who genuinely can't get to a polling station to still use a postal vote.
Neither of these things are contentious in my view.
I'm not sure what is wrong with tactical voting as such. I suspect a lot of labour voters voted tory because of Corbyn, rather than pro Johnson. (little do they know..).
When you have an unfair voting system the only thing left for minority parties is tactical voting!
Went well didn't it.
Hard to tell with FPTP, you'd have to look at the actual votes in specific seats and compare that with what would be expected - which must be quite difficult.
I agree perceptive, in particular on the antisemitism issue. Channelling my Talleyrand, tolerating antisemitism was not so much wrong as stupid. Particularly given Corbyn is probably less racist than Johnson. The key point is that Corbyn is very self-indulgent. A serious and self disciplined politician would never have let the issue become a problem.
You underestimate his singleminded stupidity. To understand him you have to ask "What would Uncle Joe Stalin have done?" Stalin was an anti Zionist antisemite. So, therefore is Corbyn, and antisemitism is therefore a core principle, never just a bit of fun on the side. Corbyn is too principled to duck out of his duty to participate in the three Minute Hate for political advantage.
My only disappointment las night was we didn’t’ take Alyn & Deeside to complete the clean sweep in North Wales.
I’ve already met today some of the 200 BXP voters that needed to vote Tory to take the seat. They thought BXP were the challengers despite being natural Tories.
The almost non-existent Tory ground game is to blame. They should have spoken and canvassed those voters.
‘ The Labour Party has consistently misjudged the mood of the electorate. The party is fixated on the negative; cuts, austerity, poverty etc. We have forgotten that there are lots of people who are sort of doing OK. In fact the Resolution Foundation found recently that people in the UK have never been happier, more here. What is the Labour Party’s message for happy people, people who are doing OK, people who want to get on and enjoy their lives? How do we combine our vital message on social and economic justice with the need to serve people who aren’t living precarious lives?“
This! Labour had got itself into the cul de sac of seeking more and more outrage. Ramping up the notion of poverty Britain. You were either a billionaire or living in squaller surviving off food banks.
For most people life is pretty good. Fuel prices haven’t increased for years, energy prices dropped, low interest rates, full employment wage rises filtering through.
Normal hard working people often see right through this.
People haven't voted Tory out of contentment this time, especially not in the northern seats. They both feared Corbyn, and hope for a lot from Brexit.
Victor’s spoils to say that people voted for whatever you stood for or against.
If the Corbynite side is thrown out and takes it’s voters to a new vehicle, and the LibDems do better at picking over the rest of the corpse of its vote....
I would have thought a period of silence from a number of people here would be sensible. They can’t help it though - quickly making predictions about the many ways in which the Conservatives will fail. While explaining that the voters are thick.
I don't think they'll necessarily fail. I think it's more likely they'll succeed in a way that will make the loopy right-wing nutters hate Boris Johnson more than his political opponents do now. But we'll see.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
What a perfectly balanced breakfast. Huge respect to whoever prepared that.
The perfect blend of wet and dry ingredients. Black Pudding.
Perfect.
fried bread AND toast - that's just plain greedy.
Attending a pub lunch in my old home town, Forfar, someone ordered Macaroni and Chips - the waitress asked if they'd like some buttered bread with that?
I can well believe the first part but it's a stretch to accept that already buttered bread was offered. Very considerate though if you fancied a chip butty too.
Oh God the latest slogan . The People’s Government ! It’s beginning to sound like China .
It's more vacuous than sinister.
It's more 1997 Blairite than sinister.
Like I said, vacuous. Although as I recall when Blair used this kind of language he was delivering a eulogy to a much loved woman after her sudden death in the middle of the night, he wasn't describing his own government. So I will cut him some slack, but then I have always had an abnormal level of affection for Tony.
I think you slightly misremember -- although I agree Blair's single most memorable instance was the Peoples' Princess
I agree it is vacuous spin-doctoring, whoever does it.
Blair (or Al C) nicked it from Bill Clinton who spoke about "the People's House" after some fruitcake had tried to blow up 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
So Blair and Bad Al noticed what others were doing, leaned lessons from it, applied those lessons to heir own behaviour, and gained electoral success.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
He couldn't carry necessary votes for that
But May did not need many votes from Labour.
But, on reflection, maybe rkrkrk is right that there would have been a leadership challenge or the ultra-Remain wing of the Labour Party would have defected en masse to the TIGgers.
It’s nonsense to suggest Labour would have done better backing Leave in this election . A large majority of both its voters and membership back Remain.
The Brexit position whilst a fudge was really the only hope of keeping its coalition of voters together and let’s not ignore the fact , many Leave seats in the north and the Midlands still returned a Labour MP .
A better leader, a more credible manifesto whilst not guaranteeing success certainly wouldn’t have led to last nights horror show and it would also have helped the Lib Dems pick up more seats as pro EU Tories might not have been so terrified of a Labour government .
‘ The Labour Party has consistently misjudged the mood of the electorate. The party is fixated on the negative; cuts, austerity, poverty etc. We have forgotten that there are lots of people who are sort of doing OK. In fact the Resolution Foundation found recently that people in the UK have never been happier, more here. What is the Labour Party’s message for happy people, people who are doing OK, people who want to get on and enjoy their lives? How do we combine our vital message on social and economic justice with the need to serve people who aren’t living precarious lives?“
This! Labour had got itself into the cul de sac of seeking more and more outrage. Ramping up the notion of poverty Britain. You were either a billionaire or living in squaller surviving off food banks.
For most people life is pretty good. Fuel prices haven’t increased for years, energy prices dropped, low interest rates, full employment wage rises filtering through.
Normal hard working people often see right through this.
People haven't voted Tory out of contentment this time, especially not in the northern seats. They both feared Corbyn, and hope for a lot from Brexit.
Victor’s spoils to say that people voted for whatever you stood for or against.
Most of these comments reflect the chaos of FPTP which gave Labour:
an extraordinary bonus in 2005 (a majority of 50 on ~35% of the popular vote) a massive kicking in 2019 (when it got >35%)
Significant? Only insofar as we should have adopted PR a century ago and stopped pretending that inefficient vote distribution means a drop in support.
I would have thought a period of silence from a number of people here would be sensible. They can’t help it though - quickly making predictions about the many ways in which the Conservatives will fail. While explaining that the voters are thick.
I don't think they'll necessarily fail. I think it's more likely they'll succeed in a way that will make the loopy right-wing nutters hate Boris Johnson more than his political opponents do now. But we'll see.
I get the impression there's going to be a huge fight for the soul of Boris Johnson. George Osborne fired the first shots last night - proclaiming that Boris would be the new Heseltine ('intervene before breakfast, before lunch, before tea and before dinner') and was clearly offering himself as Boris's tutor and mentor. The ERG types will be after Boris too. Which side prevails will shape a nation's destiny.
Oh God the latest slogan . The People’s Government ! It’s beginning to sound like China .
It's more vacuous than sinister.
It's more 1997 Blairite than sinister.
Like I said, vacuous. Although as I recall when Blair used this kind of language he was delivering a eulogy to a much loved woman after her sudden death in the middle of the night, he wasn't describing his own government. So I will cut him some slack, but then I have always had an abnormal level of affection for Tony.
... I agree Blair's single most memorable instance was the Peoples' Princess...
If you give me 45 minutes, I'm sure I can deploy a better counter-example...
‘ The Labour Party has consistently misjudged the mood of the electorate. The party is fixated on the negative; cuts, austerity, poverty etc. We have forgotten that there are lots of people who are sort of doing OK. In fact the Resolution Foundation found recently that people in the UK have never been happier, more here. What is the Labour Party’s message for happy people, people who are doing OK, people who want to get on and enjoy their lives? How do we combine our vital message on social and economic justice with the need to serve people who aren’t living precarious lives?“
This! Labour had got itself into the cul de sac of seeking more and more outrage. Ramping up the notion of poverty Britain. You were either a billionaire or living in squaller surviving off food banks.
For most people life is pretty good. Fuel prices haven’t increased for years, energy prices dropped, low interest rates, full employment wage rises filtering through.
Normal hard working people often see right through this.
People haven't voted Tory out of contentment this time, especially not in the northern seats. They both feared Corbyn, and hope for a lot from Brexit.
Victor’s spoils to say that people voted for whatever you stood for or against.
Most of these comments reflect the chaos of FPTP which gave Labour:
an extraordinary bonus in 2005 (a majority of 50 on ~35% of the popular vote) a massive kicking in 2019 (when it got >35%)
Significant? Only insofar as we should have adopted PR a century ago and stopped pretending that inefficient vote distribution means a drop in support.
Erm, Labour aren't anywhere near 35%!! And posting those numbers without the share of the other party is a bit misleading.
It’s nonsense to suggest Labour would have done better backing Leave in this election . A large majority of both its voters and membership back Remain.
The Brexit position whilst a fudge was really the only hope of keeping its coalition of voters together and let’s not ignore the fact , many Leave seats in the north and the Midlands still returned a Labour MP .
A better leader, a more credible manifesto whilst not guaranteeing success certainly wouldn’t have led to last nights horror show and it would also have helped the Lib Dems pick up more seats as pro EU Tories might not have been so terrified of a Labour government .
... and that fudge came on the back of entering the 2017 election pledging to honour the result and then spending two years in parliament voting against everything.
Seems in hindsight Labour in 2017 got a high vote in spite of Corbyn not because of him
Unfair, I think.
Corbyn was fresh as a leader, untainted with antisemitism, had some interesting policies and crucially fudged the Brexit issue so he kept both Remainers and Leavers onside.
The problem was Brexit could only be fudged for so long. Corby should have taken May's deal, made some conditions say on the environment or worker's right, and then supported it.
May would have agreed anything -- she was desperate.
It would have got Brexit out of the way, and Corby could have fought any subsequent election (which would have been part of the deal) on better territory.
And -- the other thing which clinches it -- is that Corby would then have been fighting Theresa May in the election.
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
He couldn't carry necessary votes for that
But May did not need many votes from Labour.
But, on reflection, maybe rkrkrk is right that there would have been a leadership challenge or the ultra-Remain wing of the Labour Party would have defected en masse to the TIGgers.
May would need lots of labour votes as any deal with corbyn would see mass opposition from her own ranks.
It’s nonsense to suggest Labour would have done better backing Leave in this election . A large majority of both its voters and membership back Remain.
The Brexit position whilst a fudge was really the only hope of keeping its coalition of voters together and let’s not ignore the fact , many Leave seats in the north and the Midlands still returned a Labour MP .
A better leader, a more credible manifesto whilst not guaranteeing success certainly wouldn’t have led to last nights horror show and it would also have helped the Lib Dems pick up more seats as pro EU Tories might not have been so terrified of a Labour government .
This Tory was shit scared of a Corbyn government and I don't think I was alone in that.
It’s nonsense to suggest Labour would have done better backing Leave in this election . A large majority of both its voters and membership back Remain.
The Brexit position whilst a fudge was really the only hope of keeping its coalition of voters together and let’s not ignore the fact , many Leave seats in the north and the Midlands still returned a Labour MP .
A better leader, a more credible manifesto whilst not guaranteeing success certainly wouldn’t have led to last nights horror show and it would also have helped the Lib Dems pick up more seats as pro EU Tories might not have been so terrified of a Labour government .
... and that fudge came on the back of entering the 2017 election pledging to honour the result and then spending two years in parliament voting against everything.
Voters aren't stupid.
That was the real kicker. Voting to honour it yet having three line whips to vote against it at every possible opportunity.
On a personal note, congratulations to Aaron on his success at the general election.
We must call him the honourable Mr Bell now by law.
Though I doubt we will see him post again.
I thought you only got the "honourable" bit if you were a member of the Privy Council. Or have I misunderstood?
I think that's right honourable but I confess i dont know if regular mps get the honourable tag.
Do you ever listen to Parliament?
I actually think the honorable bit is only used in parliament as in the honorable member of by honorable friend in the same way the lords use noble. Once you ar a PC you are the RT Hon for life. You can tack on learned for a QC and gallant for a former general.
I remember a trip to Blackpool (that new Tory heartland) and they had street vendors selling burgers which were topped with a slice of black pudding amid a bubbling slice of cheese. Yum!
Boris should just call her bluff, let her have her referendum in summer 2020 and watch as 'Remain' wins again.
It’s not a mandate from this election, and there is no material change in effect yet. If it’s a manifesto commitment in the ScotParl elections in 2021 and she wins, then fair enough.
Schedule for 2022 when we are out of EU totally and FTA has been sealed. No sensible Scot will choose separatism at that point. Too many downsides.
What really pleases me most though is a bet I made on Ynys Mon. I've had that seat in my view as a seat that could go blue for ages. I've only ever been able to get tiny bets on, but am 20quid or so richer now. For me this is what political betting is all about.
‘ The Labour Party has consistently misjudged the mood of the electorate. The party is fixated on the negative; cuts, austerity, poverty etc. We have forgotten that there are lots of people who are sort of doing OK. In fact the Resolution Foundation found recently that people in the UK have never been happier, more here. What is the Labour Party’s message for happy people, people who are doing OK, people who want to get on and enjoy their lives? How do we combine our vital message on social and economic justice with the need to serve people who aren’t living precarious lives?“
This! Labour had got itself into the cul de sac of seeking more and more outrage. Ramping up the notion of poverty Britain. You were either a billionaire or living in squaller surviving off food banks.
For most people life is pretty good. Fuel prices haven’t increased for years, energy prices dropped, low interest rates, full employment wage rises filtering through.
Normal hard working people often see right through this.
People haven't voted Tory out of contentment this time, especially not in the northern seats. They both feared Corbyn, and hope for a lot from Brexit.
Victor’s spoils to say that people voted for whatever you stood for or against.
Most of these comments reflect the chaos of FPTP which gave Labour:
an extraordinary bonus in 2005 (a majority of 50 on ~35% of the popular vote) a massive kicking in 2019 (when it got >35%)
Significant? Only insofar as we should have adopted PR a century ago and stopped pretending that inefficient vote distribution means a drop in support.
Erm, Labour aren't anywhere near 35%!! And posting those numbers without the share of the other party is a bit misleading.
Yes if Labour are moaning about FPTP now, they're really going to be upset next time when it's fought on fair boundaries
Boris should just call her bluff, let her have her referendum in summer 2020 and watch as 'Remain' wins again.
It’s not a mandate from this election, and there is no material change in effect yet. If it’s a manifesto commitment in the ScotParl elections in 2021 and she wins, then fair enough.
Schedule for 2022 when we are out of EU totally and FTA has been sealed. No sensible Scot will choose separatism at that point. Too many downsides.
Both the Scottish Tories and the SNP were correct to make it a single issue (Independence) election I reckon. OK So the Tories went backwards but they'd have gone further backward if it was the "Brexit election" in Scotland. & Ian Murray ran as a virtual independent again.
Comments
What happens next depends on what Boris and the Labour party choose to do.
(If you caught the Scottish trains you'd get Lorne sausage too!)
https://twitter.com/bobservant/status/1205417704867414016
How many of them have served in government? And in cabinet? This number must have seriously dwindled. How many survivors from the Miliband shadow cabinet?
Of those MPs who have been elected before and so we have data on their parliamentary votes (not perfect but can be number-crunched to give a sense of position on the left-right scale) how do they stand on the political spectrum compared to Labour's MPs from 2017, 2015 and 2010? Has the parliamentary party headed leftwards like its membership base? (Would be interesting to know also who surviving MPs had backed in both of Corbyn's leadership contests.)
Of the first-time MPs - where did they come from? The spadlands, private sector, public sector, third sector, the unions? How does that compare to 2017, 2015, 2010? Do we know how many of them are signed-up/endorsed Corbynistas?
https://twitter.com/StewartMcDonald/status/1205305020813578240?s=19
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privy_Council_of_the_United_Kingdom#Rights_and_privileges_of_members
He would have beaten May, with the reverse Midas touch, in a second election.
Corby should have stuck to his Leave viewpoint and agreed a deal to Leave with Theresa May.
The perfect blend of wet and dry ingredients. Black Pudding.
Perfect.
MP = nothing special apart from MP at the end.
Son/daughter of peer = Hon*
*it's more complicated than that but that'll do.
It is a pity, because otherwise she ticks all the boxes.
That’s Liverpool prices for you.
Only people who feel worse right now is probably SNP MPs who've been formenting a leadership challenge.
Sure - I wan't making a point here though - these things are true or plausible.
I have no sympathy for the far left - they planned to ruin me after all.
Good ol' Spoons.
I’ve already met today some of the 200 BXP voters that needed to vote Tory to take the seat. They thought BXP were the challengers despite being natural Tories.
The almost non-existent Tory ground game is to blame. They should have spoken and canvassed those voters.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1205466027640815616?s=20
Labour have just forgotten how to do politics.
But, on reflection, maybe rkrkrk is right that there would have been a leadership challenge or the ultra-Remain wing of the Labour Party would have defected en masse to the TIGgers.
The Brexit position whilst a fudge was really the only hope of keeping its coalition of voters together and let’s not ignore the fact , many Leave seats in the north and the Midlands still returned a Labour MP .
A better leader, a more credible manifesto whilst not guaranteeing success certainly wouldn’t have led to last nights horror show and it would also have helped the Lib Dems pick up more seats as pro EU Tories might not have been so terrified of a Labour government .
an extraordinary bonus in 2005 (a majority of 50 on ~35% of the popular vote)
a massive kicking in 2019 (when it got >35%)
Significant? Only insofar as we should have adopted PR a century ago and stopped pretending that inefficient vote distribution means a drop in support.
Voters aren't stupid.
Ah - but she's demanding she set the question (Electoral Commission not required) and she set the date...
But yes 'Remain in the UK / Leave the UK' should be the question - whats not to like? - the last time a Remain/Leave question was asked 'Leave' won.
Schedule for 2022 when we are out of EU totally and FTA has been sealed. No sensible Scot will choose separatism at that point. Too many downsides.
What really pleases me most though is a bet I made on Ynys Mon. I've had that seat in my view as a seat that could go blue for ages. I've only ever been able to get tiny bets on, but am 20quid or so richer now. For me this is what political betting is all about.
Mind you the other few grand will come in handy.
OK So the Tories went backwards but they'd have gone further backward if it was the "Brexit election" in Scotland.
& Ian Murray ran as a virtual independent again.
Time for a cheese and Branston pickle sandwich.