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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Next Labour Leader matrix – working out who’ll win

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  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    I guess Dan Jarvis can't run for Labour leader, since he has such a small majority. The Tory Republic of South Yorkshire.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    nunu2 said:

    I guess Dan Jarvis can't run for Labour leader, since he has such a small majority. The Tory Republic of South Yorkshire.

    Plus, as my hero Adrian Chiles noted yesterday, Ooh Dan Jarvis doesn't scan unless you add his rank (major) which might not be a huge turn on for the Lab membership
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236
    edited January 2020
    Dura_Ace said:

    The APG-71 radar in the F-14 is probably vulnerable to ECM now but in its day it was simply incredible. We could do 24 target track while scan and 6 target simultaneous engagement at up to 180km with RAP out out 600km via Hawkeye datalink. Then when we were bored with killing everyone we could go 68 wing/stage 5 AB and pull 7G+ M2.0 on the way home.

    Oh God. OK, going thru them...

    * "APG-71" = the name of the radar the F14 carried - the F14 can be thought of as a missile carrier for extremely-long-range air-to-air missiles, and the radar was needed to target them.
    * "ECM" = electronic counter measures: a way for an opponent to survive your oh-so fancy-dan missiles and radar
    * "24 target track while scan and 6 target simultaneous engagement at up to 180km" = you can track 24 opponents and fight six whilst they are very far away and can't attack you back.
    * "out 600km via Hawkeye datalink" = in fact, you could do it at even longer distances if you were given info from a supporting aircraft
    * "68 wing/stage 5 AB" = the F14 had swing wings (the wings can move back-and-forth) and an afterburner (a way of injecting and igniting fuel into the exhaust for additional thrust). By sweeping the wings back 68 degrees and using the afterburner to its maximum extent you could make an already fast aircraft go very very fast...
    * "pull 7G+ M2.0 on the way home." = ...in fact you could travel at twice the speed of sound at the cost of enduring g-force that could force your guts out your bottom... :)

    So. you could be flying over London, shoot down six aircraft flying over Edinburgh who can't even see you, then land in Berlin within the hour at the cost of pooing your pants if you don't clench fast enough.

    Nice day at the office... :)

    [ps what's "RAP"?]
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    The APG-71 radar in the F-14 is probably vulnerable to ECM now but in its day it was simply incredible. We could do 24 target track while scan and 6 target simultaneous engagement at up to 180km with RAP out out 600km via Hawkeye datalink. Then when we were bored with killing everyone we could go 68 wing/stage 5 AB and pull 7G+ M2.0 on the way home.

    Oh God. OK, going thru them...

    * "APG-71" = the name of the radar the F14 carried - the F14 can be thought of as a missile carrier for extremely-long-range air-to-air missiles, and the radar was needed to target them.
    * "ECM" = electronic counter measures: a way for an opponent to survive your oh-so fancy-dan missiles and radar
    * "24 target track while scan and 6 target simultaneous engagement at up to 180km" = you can track 24 opponents and fight 6 whilst they are very far away and can't attack you.
    * "out 600km via Hawkeye datalink" = in fact, you could do it at even longer distances if you were given info from a supporting aircraft
    * "68 wing/stage 5 AB" = the F14 had swing wings (the wings can move back-and-forth) and an afterburner (a way of injecting and igniting fuel into the exhaust for additional thrust). By sweeping the wings back 68 degrees and using the afterburner to its maximum extent you could make an already fast aircraft go very very fast...
    * "pull 7G+ M2.0 on the way home." = ...in fact you could travel at twice the speed of sound at the cost of enduring g-force that could force your guts out your bottom... :)

    So. you could be flying over London, shoot down six aircraft flying over Edinburgh who can't even see you, then land in Berlin within the hour at the cost of pooing your pants if you don't clench fast enough.

    Nice day at the office... :)

    [ps what's "RAP"?]
    Recognised Air Picture.
  • As he said multiple times on Mastermind...PASS...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,586
    Floater said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I doubt a full on DVDA war is the objective; after all what would victory look like?

    But the giant refinery at Abadan going up in flames after a fleeting visit from CVW-1 would be a fine backdrop to a re-election campaign.

    Iran's task is now (so I hear) to retaliate in a way that makes America wish to allah that they had not just done what they have done but yet does not cause America to escalate again thus moving towards what could be called a "war". This strikes me as being almost by definition not possible.
    It could be an ironic swansong for the mighty F-14.


    There's a F14 in the trailer for the new Top Gun movie: people have speculated that this means Iran is involved in the plot.
    That I believe is not a F14
    Sure, it largely features the rather less charismatic F18, but there are actually two of the old ride in the trailer (albeit one appears as a static display).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:
    Stopped clock? :o
    So long as he acknowledges hes not the best person for X he might be right alot more often.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236
    Floater said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I doubt a full on DVDA war is the objective; after all what would victory look like?

    But the giant refinery at Abadan going up in flames after a fleeting visit from CVW-1 would be a fine backdrop to a re-election campaign.

    Iran's task is now (so I hear) to retaliate in a way that makes America wish to allah that they had not just done what they have done but yet does not cause America to escalate again thus moving towards what could be called a "war". This strikes me as being almost by definition not possible.
    It could be an ironic swansong for the mighty F-14.


    There's a F14 in the trailer for the new Top Gun movie: people have speculated that this means Iran is involved in the plot.
    That I believe is not a F14
    Go to the trailer below, wind forward to 2 minutes 8 seconds. It's the post-credits one. Not the one featured in most of the trailer, which definitely isn't a F14.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqVVswa420&feature=youtu.be&t=128
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:
    Stopped clock? :o
    Stopped cock.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,777
    This looks a match winning partnership for SA. Can Root’s captaincy survive yet another series defeat?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,677

    Monica Lennon says Scottish Labour must split from UK party

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50982723

    Interesting.
    They have found someone in Scottish Labour with more than two brain cells
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236
    Nigelb said:

    Floater said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I doubt a full on DVDA war is the objective; after all what would victory look like?

    But the giant refinery at Abadan going up in flames after a fleeting visit from CVW-1 would be a fine backdrop to a re-election campaign.

    Iran's task is now (so I hear) to retaliate in a way that makes America wish to allah that they had not just done what they have done but yet does not cause America to escalate again thus moving towards what could be called a "war". This strikes me as being almost by definition not possible.
    It could be an ironic swansong for the mighty F-14.


    There's a F14 in the trailer for the new Top Gun movie: people have speculated that this means Iran is involved in the plot.
    That I believe is not a F14
    Sure, it largely features the rather less charismatic F18, but there are actually two of the old ride in the trailer (albeit one appears as a static display).
    Indeed. As I rather hurriedly pointed out to @Floater, the flying F14 appears at the very end of the trailer, and most of the time he's flying the Hornet.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    I knew he was a wrong'un. I recognised him as Villanelle's handler.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236
    Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    The APG-71 radar in the F-14 is probably vulnerable to ECM now but in its day it was simply incredible. We could do 24 target track while scan and 6 target simultaneous engagement at up to 180km with RAP out out 600km via Hawkeye datalink. Then when we were bored with killing everyone we could go 68 wing/stage 5 AB and pull 7G+ M2.0 on the way home.

    Oh God. OK, going thru them...

    * "APG-71" = the name of the radar the F14 carried - the F14 can be thought of as a missile carrier for extremely-long-range air-to-air missiles, and the radar was needed to target them.
    * "ECM" = electronic counter measures: a way for an opponent to survive your oh-so fancy-dan missiles and radar
    * "24 target track while scan and 6 target simultaneous engagement at up to 180km" = you can track 24 opponents and fight 6 whilst they are very far away and can't attack you.
    * "out 600km via Hawkeye datalink" = in fact, you could do it at even longer distances if you were given info from a supporting aircraft
    * "68 wing/stage 5 AB" = the F14 had swing wings (the wings can move back-and-forth) and an afterburner (a way of injecting and igniting fuel into the exhaust for additional thrust). By sweeping the wings back 68 degrees and using the afterburner to its maximum extent you could make an already fast aircraft go very very fast...
    * "pull 7G+ M2.0 on the way home." = ...in fact you could travel at twice the speed of sound at the cost of enduring g-force that could force your guts out your bottom... :)

    So. you could be flying over London, shoot down six aircraft flying over Edinburgh who can't even see you, then land in Berlin within the hour at the cost of pooing your pants if you don't clench fast enough.

    Nice day at the office... :)

    [ps what's "RAP"?]
    Recognised Air Picture.
    Thank you.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,677

    All the female candidates would make terrible PMs (except Cooper). But I'll say this for them - at least they wouldn't be as terrible as that terrible New Zealand woman.

    Anyone that thinks Cooper is PM material of any sort needs urgent help. She is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,677
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:
    Stopped clock? :o
    you have an extra l in that second word
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    .
    TGOHF666 said:
    We just cant let a Human Rights lawyer run the country
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715
    It looks like Starmer's to lose, Nandy has little chance

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1212725650878017536?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,777
    Excellent read thanks. If Iran do retaliate I fear the next step up from the US will look more like war than anything seen recently. I have no doubt that it has already been planned.
  • malcolmg said:

    All the female candidates would make terrible PMs (except Cooper). But I'll say this for them - at least they wouldn't be as terrible as that terrible New Zealand woman.

    Anyone that thinks Cooper is PM material of any sort needs urgent help. She is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
    Well I disagree - fwiw who would you pick from the, err inspiring, list as “PM material”?
  • TGOHF666 said:
    I dont think that message meets the definition of menacing (certainly not beyond reasonable doubt) so think the prosecution was a mistake.

    However, imagine someone with a mental illness posts similar, it gets reported to authorities who ignore it as just blowing off steam, then person carries out said threat. In such circumstances Id imagine anyone involved in police or CPS who ignored it would have their careers ended and possibly face calls for them to be prosecuted themselves. We sometimes place our officials in positions where decisions can be lose/lose for them.
  • isam said:

    .

    TGOHF666 said:
    We just cant let a Human Rights lawyer run the country
    Quite. If Starmzy gets it, surely Boris would pledge to abolish the Human Rights Act. Starmer would have to defend it, and we could have a good old culture war on our hands.
  • HYUFD said:

    It looks like Starmer's to lose, Nandy has little chance

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1212725650878017536?s=20

    lolcow Phillips still third. One feels that the Kool aid that has affected Scottish water has spread further south
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,677

    malcolmg said:

    All the female candidates would make terrible PMs (except Cooper). But I'll say this for them - at least they wouldn't be as terrible as that terrible New Zealand woman.

    Anyone that thinks Cooper is PM material of any sort needs urgent help. She is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
    Well I disagree - fwiw who would you pick from the, err inspiring, list as “PM material”?
    I would use a blindfold and a pin , pin the donkey is very apt description.
    PS: Cooper has to be one of the most useless bland candidates ever.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    edited January 2020
    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    https://twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2020

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    HYUFD said:

    It looks like Starmer's to lose, Nandy has little chance

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1212725650878017536?s=20

    A few things that can go wrong from here:

    - Starmer decides not to stand (citing the need for a woman to win).
    - Long-Bailey is persuaded to stand aside in favour of Angela Rayner
    - A poll comes out showing Ian Lavery is in with a shot if he stands
    - Corbyn decides to hang on long enough to ensure his favoured candidate wins, or failing that, decides to stay on after all.

    I'm certainly not betting on Starmer at current odds.
  • WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    https://twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    Looking forward to Sturgeon backing Iran for the lols - you just know she wants to
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    I’m not sure that the Labour Party has realised that they are, in the medium term, irrelevant. The MP demanding an urgent recall of parliament to discuss this had forgotten that we have majority government again.

  • matt said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    I’m not sure that the Labour Party has realised that they are, in the medium term, irrelevant. The MP demanding an urgent recall of parliament to discuss this had forgotten that we have majority government again.

    And that in the real world, nobody gives a flying f##k about what is trending on the twitter machine.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    nunu2 said:

    viewcode said:

    BudG said:

    Took part in another You Gov poll for Labour members last night. The difference between this and the first one that caused a lot of movement in the market was that they included Lavery this time (he had not announced an interest in running at the time of the last poll)

    I would also mention that there seems to be quite a bit of support growing in some of the Facebook groups I am a member of. One was running a poll over the last few days and it put Lavery top in a poll of about 900 group members, although I would estimate that only around half of these will have Labour membership. There seems to be a swing towards support for Lavery from RLB.

    Am expecting a strong showing from Lavery when the next YouGov poll comes out, but as ever, DYOR if betting

    Facebook poll.. voodoo nonsense
    Twitter, Facebook and the Death of the Left as an Electoral Force will be a popular topic in about a decade.

    It is fascinating how the Left have taken to these platforms to reinforoce each other, whereas the Right by and large do not share their views. Even in totally apolitical groups, those on the Left will find a reason to rail at Johnson/Tories. Yet from those 14m who voted Tory, not a peep. Certainly, nobody on Facebook would have a clue about my politics.
    Yeah that fuckwit Cummings and CCHQ's gurus from down under totally wasted all their time and the party's money on Facebook.

    Or was it wasted? One thing is for sure, if you think the right ignores social media, you ought to stay in more.
    If I recall my Shipman correctly, didn't Dom eschew Facebook ads in favour of other online methods? Or have I misunderstood?
    Yes, tories spent much less than Labour on FB, but more than Labour on Google searches
    The Youtube front page takeover the weekend before the election would have cost an order of magnitude larger than anything else they did, and was probably several orders of magnitude more effective. As someone else said "the closest you can get to broadcast in a digital era". Half the country probably saw that ad. And the messaging - aren't you sick of them arguing? was spot on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2020
    kyf_100 said:

    nunu2 said:

    viewcode said:

    BudG said:

    Took part in another You Gov poll for Labour members last night. The difference between this and the first one that caused a lot of movement in the market was that they included Lavery this time (he had not announced an interest in running at the time of the last poll)

    I would also mention that there seems to be quite a bit of support growing in some of the Facebook groups I am a member of. One was running a poll over the last few days and it put Lavery top in a poll of about 900 group members, although I would estimate that only around half of these will have Labour membership. There seems to be a swing towards support for Lavery from RLB.

    Am expecting a strong showing from Lavery when the next YouGov poll comes out, but as ever, DYOR if betting

    Facebook poll.. voodoo nonsense
    Twitter, Facebook and the Death of the Left as an Electoral Force will be a popular topic in about a decade.

    It is fascinating how the Left have taken to these platforms to reinforoce each other, whereas the Right by and large do not share their views. Even in totally apolitical groups, those on the Left will find a reason to rail at Johnson/Tories. Yet from those 14m who voted Tory, not a peep. Certainly, nobody on Facebook would have a clue about my politics.
    Yeah that fuckwit Cummings and CCHQ's gurus from down under totally wasted all their time and the party's money on Facebook.

    Or was it wasted? One thing is for sure, if you think the right ignores social media, you ought to stay in more.
    If I recall my Shipman correctly, didn't Dom eschew Facebook ads in favour of other online methods? Or have I misunderstood?
    Yes, tories spent much less than Labour on FB, but more than Labour on Google searches
    The Youtube front page takeover the weekend before the election would have cost an order of magnitude larger than anything else they did, and was probably several orders of magnitude more effective. As someone else said "the closest you can get to broadcast in a digital era". Half the country probably saw that ad. And the messaging - aren't you sick of them arguing? was spot on.
    I wonder how much the Daily Mail ad on election day cost them? That was also a very clever move as despite nobody wanting to admit it, loads of people click onto their website to check out which z-list celeb is looking terrible these days.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,677

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    https://twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    Looking forward to Sturgeon backing Iran for the lols - you just know she wants to
    You unionists just cannot help yourselves, rotten to the core.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,677
    Did Boris forget to take his phone charger on holiday, you would have thought he may have at least made a short statement supporting his chum, even if only to hasten the very quick trade deal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715
    malcolmg said:

    Did Boris forget to take his phone charger on holiday, you would have thought he may have at least made a short statement supporting his chum, even if only to hasten the very quick trade deal.

    Raab made a perfectly sensible statement, Boris is rightly staying out of it and sticking to the sun lounger
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    kyf_100 said:

    nunu2 said:

    viewcode said:



    Twitter, Facebook and the Death of the Left as an Electoral Force will be a popular topic in about a decade.

    It is fascinating how the Left have taken to these platforms to reinforoce each other, whereas the Right by and large do not share their views. Even in totally apolitical groups, those on the Left will find a reason to rail at Johnson/Tories. Yet from those 14m who voted Tory, not a peep. Certainly, nobody on Facebook would have a clue about my politics.

    Yeah that fuckwit Cummings and CCHQ's gurus from down under totally wasted all their time and the party's money on Facebook.

    Or was it wasted? One thing is for sure, if you think the right ignores social media, you ought to stay in more.
    If I recall my Shipman correctly, didn't Dom eschew Facebook ads in favour of other online methods? Or have I misunderstood?
    Yes, tories spent much less than Labour on FB, but more than Labour on Google searches
    The Youtube front page takeover the weekend before the election would have cost an order of magnitude larger than anything else they did, and was probably several orders of magnitude more effective. As someone else said "the closest you can get to broadcast in a digital era". Half the country probably saw that ad. And the messaging - aren't you sick of them arguing? was spot on.
    I wonder how much the Daily Mail ad on election day cost them? That was also a very clever move as despite nobody wanting to admit it, loads of people click onto their website to check out which z-list celeb is looking terrible these days.
    My guess would be north of 500k, unless they were given a friendly rate.

    And yes, that was their second smartest media buy. The Mail is absolutely huge. I also think it was smart to hold back on the big spends until the last minute, so the messaging was fresh in everyone's minds.

    I think the aim was to create a conversation in pubs, around water coolers, at the dinner table, etc, along the lines of "I'm sick of the games and arguments, at least if Boris gets a big majority things will go back to normal".

    That is much more powerful than the "Corbyn is a far left fruitcake, he's an anti-semite and loves the IRA you know". Which as more or less the Tory messaging in 2017 and it wasn't enough.

    Generally a positive message wins out over a negative one and Boris was able to present himself as the change candidate.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    https://twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    If all they want is for him to be a voice for Britain he can quit parliament and spend all his time at Stop the War or other campaigning organisations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    malcolmg said:

    Did Boris forget to take his phone charger on holiday, you would have thought he may have at least made a short statement supporting his chum, even if only to hasten the very quick trade deal.

    What benefit would there be to him? It wouldn't actually hasten a deal because something else would piss Trump or other americans off later, and it would add nothing to Raab's statement and probably lead to people accusing him of kowtowing to Trump.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It looks like Starmer's to lose, Nandy has little chance

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1212725650878017536?s=20

    A few things that can go wrong from here:

    - Starmer decides not to stand (citing the need for a woman to win).
    - Long-Bailey is persuaded to stand aside in favour of Angela Rayner
    - A poll comes out showing Ian Lavery is in with a shot if he stands
    - Corbyn decides to hang on long enough to ensure his favoured candidate wins, or failing that, decides to stay on after all.

    I'm certainly not betting on Starmer at current odds.
    Sensible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.
    It's the sort of genuine nastiness that just grates, particularly as its stated as a sign of virtue. I was extremely pleased Skinner got the boot as reportedly he's lived out that attitude for decades, which is pathetic.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2020
    Gutted that Kinnock has endorsed Nandy for leadership. I am large green on it being him.
  • HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Did Boris forget to take his phone charger on holiday, you would have thought he may have at least made a short statement supporting his chum, even if only to hasten the very quick trade deal.

    Raab made a perfectly sensible statement, Boris is rightly staying out of it and sticking to the sun lounger
    Positively Churchillian.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    TOPPING said:

    Gutted that Kinnock has endorsed Nandy for leadership. I am large green on it being him.

    A good endorsement for Nandy though.

    Watch her rise.....
  • TOPPING said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
    It is amazing what ooze can be found by a biased reader. There is nothing in his letter remotely connected to such regret. The only question that would be different if it was a Labour govt and Tory opposition would be number 4. All the other questions are completely neutral and just getting an update on what has happened and the UKs response.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    Gutted that Kinnock has endorsed Nandy for leadership. I am large green on it being him.

    A good endorsement for Nandy though.

    Watch her rise.....
    She looks sane also. No crazed look in her eyes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    TOPPING said:

    Gutted that Kinnock has endorsed Nandy for leadership. I am large green on it being him.

    A good endorsement for Nandy though.

    Watch her rise.....
    She'll better Kendall's 4.5%?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
    It is amazing what ooze can be found by a biased reader. There is nothing in his letter remotely connected to such regret. The only question that would be different if it was a Labour govt and Tory opposition would be number 4. All the other questions are completely neutral and just getting an update on what has happened and the UKs response.
    Any interference with Jeremy's friends in the middle East by the great Satan is cause for a letter. What other letters has he written to the Prime Minister?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,777
    edited January 2020
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    BudG said:

    Took part in another You Gov poll for Labour members last night. The difference between this and the first one that caused a lot of movement in the market was that they included Lavery this time (he had not announced an interest in running at the time of the last poll)

    I would also mention that there seems to be quite a bit of support growing in some of the Facebook groups I am a member of. One was running a poll over the last few days and it put Lavery top in a poll of about 900 group members, although I would estimate that only around half of these will have Labour membership. There seems to be a swing towards support for Lavery from RLB.

    Am expecting a strong showing from Lavery when the next YouGov poll comes out, but as ever, DYOR if betting

    Facebook poll.. voodoo nonsense
    Twitter, Facebook and the Death of the Left as an Electoral Force will be a popular topic in about a decade.

    It is fascinating how the Left have taken to these platforms to reinforoce each other, whereas the Right by and large do not share their views. Even in totally apolitical groups, those on the Left will find a reason to rail at Johnson/Tories. Yet from those 14m who voted Tory, not a peep. Certainly, nobody on Facebook would have a clue about my politics.
    Yeah that fuckwit Cummings and CCHQ's gurus from down under totally wasted all their time and the party's money on Facebook.

    Or was it wasted? One thing is for sure, if you think the right ignores social media, you ought to stay in more.
    If I recall my Shipman correctly, didn't Dom eschew Facebook ads in favour of other online methods? Or have I misunderstood?
    Loves Facebook but not Twitter (which has now banned political adverts anyway) or WhatsApp.

    Here is Dom describing how Leave won. It sounds like he is talking just after GE2017 from a throwaway line but it does not really matter.
    https://youtu.be/CDbRxH9Kiy4

    One of the things Dom describes is using Facebook's advertising criteria to break down surveys into subsamples which meant they could then use the exact same criteria to feed back into Facebook's targeted advertising.
    Useful, thank you.
    Really fascinating and very much of a piece with his advert for iconoclasts to come and work in No 10 policy unit. The idea at the end that those with degrees in English etc being swept away by data scientists with strong maths particularly so. Is he right? Maybe.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
    It is amazing what ooze can be found by a biased reader. There is nothing in his letter remotely connected to such regret. The only question that would be different if it was a Labour govt and Tory opposition would be number 4. All the other questions are completely neutral and just getting an update on what has happened and the UKs response.
    Any interference with Jeremy's friends in the middle East by the great Satan is cause for a letter. What other letters has he written to the Prime Minister?
    Plenty, you know perfectly well Loto and PMs write to each other frequently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,586
    The mighty German car industry.... might just go the same way as ours.
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killer-mercedes-benz-eqc-flops-germany/
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    It appears that Trump told various hangers on at Mar-a-Lago an operation was about to take place, but not Congress. A foreign office friend of mine has told me the state department is completely depleted of talent right now and is wholly incapable of handling a major crisis.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    BudG said:

    Took part in another You Gov poll for Labour members last night. The difference between this and the first one that caused a lot of movement in the market was that they included Lavery this time (he had not announced an interest in running at the time of the last poll)

    I would also mention that there seems to be quite a bit of support growing in some of the Facebook groups I am a member of. One was running a poll over the last few days and it put Lavery top inort for Lavery from RLB.

    Am expecting a strong showing from Lavery when the next YouGov poll comes out, but as ever, DYOR if betting

    Facebook poll.. voodoo nonsense
    Twitter, Facebook and the Death of the Left as an Electoral Force will be a popular topic in about a decade.

    It is fascinating how the Left have taken to these platforms to reinforoce each other, whereas the Right by and large do not share their views. Even in totally apolitical groups, those on the Left will find a reason to rail at Johnson/Tories. Yet from those 14m who voted Tory, not a peep. Certainly, nobody on Facebook would have a clue about my politics.
    Yeah that fuckwit Cummings and CCHQ's gurus from down under totally wasted all their time and the party's money on Facebook.

    Or was it wasted? One thing is for sure, if you think the right ignores social media, you ought to stay in more.
    If I recall my Shipman correctly, didn't Dom eschew Facebook ads in favour of other online methods? Or have I misunderstood?
    Loves Facebook but not Twitter (which has now banned political adverts anyway) or WhatsApp.

    Here is Dom describing how Leave won. It sounds like he is talking just after GE2017 from a throwaway line but it does not really matter.
    https://youtu.be/CDbRxH9Kiy4

    One of the things Dom describes is using Facebook's advertising criteria to break down surveys into subsamples which meant they could then use the exact same criteria to feed back into Facebook's targeted advertising.
    Useful, thank you.
    Really fascinating and very much of a piece with his advert for iconoclasts to come and work in No 10 policy unit. The idea at the end that those with degrees in English etc being swept away by data scientists with strong maths particularly so. Is he right? Maybe.
    More interesting, and one especially for those who think leaving the EU is a victory for the little guy against the establishment, is that after the 2015 Cons election victory Dom started to get calls from a few "Tory billionaires".
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922
    edited January 2020

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
    It is amazing what ooze can be found by a biased reader. There is nothing in his letter remotely connected to such regret. The only question that would be different if it was a Labour govt and Tory opposition would be number 4. All the other questions are completely neutral and just getting an update on what has happened and the UKs response.
    Any interference with Jeremy's friends in the middle East by the great Satan is cause for a letter. What other letters has he written to the Prime Minister?
    Plenty, you know perfectly well Loto and PMs write to each other frequently.
    For me it brings into focus the utter irrelevance of what he thinks about anything. He's been given every opportunity to get to power and failed ignominiously. The letter is completely pointless.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Gutted that Kinnock has endorsed Nandy for leadership. I am large green on it being him.

    A good endorsement for Nandy though.

    Watch her rise.....
    She looks sane also. No crazed look in her eyes.
    She sounds sane. If for example she was in charge of an elderly relative's care, you'd feel comforted by that.

    If Lavery was in charge of that relative, though.....you'd be waiting for a Power of Attorney in his favour to mysteriously surface.
  • Gabs3 said:

    It appears that Trump told various hangers on at Mar-a-Lago an operation was about to take place, but not Congress. A foreign office friend of mine has told me the state department is completely depleted of talent right now and is wholly incapable of handling a major crisis.

    Sounds like they need some weirdos and misfits. Mind you Trump's entourage may have sucked up a goodly number of them.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    O.k, I'll admit some Leavers are thick as pig shit.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/people_paul/status/1212360617681719297
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Nigelb said:

    The mighty German car industry.... might just go the same way as ours.
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killer-mercedes-benz-eqc-flops-germany/

    That's not surprising, no European car marques have made the jump to electric well. A lot of this is down to regulators pushing diesel for so many years as a "cleaner" alternative to petrol and complacency within manufacturers in the premium sector.

    The only saving grace is that the Model 3 is so awful that JLR, BMW etc... might still have some room to make a £45k electric saloon car that feels a lot more premium than the Model 3.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
    It is amazing what ooze can be found by a biased reader. There is nothing in his letter remotely connected to such regret. The only question that would be different if it was a Labour govt and Tory opposition would be number 4. All the other questions are completely neutral and just getting an update on what has happened and the UKs response.
    Any interference with Jeremy's friends in the middle East by the great Satan is cause for a letter. What other letters has he written to the Prime Minister?
    Plenty, you know perfectly well Loto and PMs write to each other frequently.
    Oh. Sorry. Could you send me a link to the other ones he's sent since he announced he'd be stepping down.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    nunu2 said:

    O.k, I'll admit some Leavers are thick as pig shit.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/people_paul/status/1212360617681719297

    This is who the Tories have got in bed with.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,854
    Despite being busier than usual today I’ve found the time to do an interesting exercise which I don’t believe has ever been done before – an analysis of PMs since 1900 by number of syllables in their name. So to illustrate, David Lloyd George is 2-1-1. It reveals the following (surprisingly wide) distribution –

    2-2-2 ... One
    1-2 ... One
    3-2 ... One
    2-2-1 ... One
    1-3 ... One
    3-1 ... One
    2-1-1 ... One
    2-2-3 ... One
    2-3 ... Three
    2-1 ... Four
    2-2 ... Seven !!!

    Relevance viz Labour leadership -

    All of the 3-parters (indicating double barreled names a la Long Bailey) are dim distant past. Furthermore she would be the very first 3-1-2.

    Most of the other serious candidates (Jarvis, Starmer, Phillips, Lewis) are 1-2. There has been only one such PM in the last 120 years. John Major.

    2-2 is what stands out a mile. No less than SEVEN PMs (including current holder) have this attribute. That's a full third of the total. Really striking.

    Points to one person and one only. Lisa Nandy. My pick, as it happens, but that is nothing to do with this.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    nunu2 said:

    O.k, I'll admit some Leavers are thick as pig shit.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/people_paul/status/1212360617681719297

    This is who the Tories have got in bed with.
    Maybe they just really really like vanilla extract in their grain products.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    England have performed an act of indecent exposure in a premature fashion.

    Otherwise known as getting de Kock out early.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,943
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Despite being busier than usual today I’ve found the time to do an interesting exercise which I don’t believe has ever been done before – an analysis of PMs since 1900 by number of syllables in their name. So to illustrate, David Lloyd George is 2-1-1. It reveals the following (surprisingly wide) distribution –

    2-2-2 ... One
    1-2 ... One
    3-2 ... One
    2-2-1 ... One
    1-3 ... One
    3-1 ... One
    2-1-1 ... One
    2-2-3 ... One
    2-3 ... Three
    2-1 ... Four
    2-2 ... Seven !!!

    Relevance viz Labour leadership -

    All of the 3-parters (indicating double barreled names a la Long Bailey) are dim distant past. Furthermore she would be the very first 3-1-2.

    Most of the other serious candidates (Jarvis, Starmer, Phillips, Lewis) are 1-2. There has been only one such PM in the last 120 years. John Major.

    2-2 is what stands out a mile. No less than SEVEN PMs (including current holder) have this attribute. That's a full third of the total. Really striking.

    Points to one person and one only. Lisa Nandy. My pick, as it happens, but that is nothing to do with this.

    Complete drivel. Why are you wasting our time with this amateur numerology based on stale, male and pale prime ministers?

    All women leaders have three-syllable first names: Margaret Thatcher, Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May, Angela Merkel, Jacinda Arden, Indira Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto. The list goes on and on.

    Step forward Rebecca Long-Bailey. Or Angela Rayner. Or Jessica Phillips. Damn! It's all of them!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    The mighty German car industry.... might just go the same way as ours.
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killer-mercedes-benz-eqc-flops-germany/

    That's not surprising, no European car marques have made the jump to electric well. A lot of this is down to regulators pushing diesel for so many years as a "cleaner" alternative to petrol and complacency within manufacturers in the premium sector.

    The only saving grace is that the Model 3 is so awful that JLR, BMW etc... might still have some room to make a £45k electric saloon car that feels a lot more premium than the Model 3.
    I still want a Cybertruck.... :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kinabalu said:

    Despite being busier than usual today I’ve found the time to do an interesting exercise which I don’t believe has ever been done before – an analysis of PMs since 1900 by number of syllables in their name. So to illustrate, David Lloyd George is 2-1-1. It reveals the following (surprisingly wide) distribution –

    2-2-2 ... One
    1-2 ... One
    3-2 ... One
    2-2-1 ... One
    1-3 ... One
    3-1 ... One
    2-1-1 ... One
    2-2-3 ... One
    2-3 ... Three
    2-1 ... Four
    2-2 ... Seven !!!

    Relevance viz Labour leadership -

    All of the 3-parters (indicating double barreled names a la Long Bailey) are dim distant past. Furthermore she would be the very first 3-1-2.

    Most of the other serious candidates (Jarvis, Starmer, Phillips, Lewis) are 1-2. There has been only one such PM in the last 120 years. John Major.

    2-2 is what stands out a mile. No less than SEVEN PMs (including current holder) have this attribute. That's a full third of the total. Really striking.

    Points to one person and one only. Lisa Nandy. My pick, as it happens, but that is nothing to do with this.

    Complete drivel. Why are you wasting our time with this amateur numerology based on stale, male and pale prime ministers?
    Yes, I'm totally sure it was meant to be completely serious.
  • kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Despite being busier than usual today I’ve found the time to do an interesting exercise which I don’t believe has ever been done before – an analysis of PMs since 1900 by number of syllables in their name. So to illustrate, David Lloyd George is 2-1-1. It reveals the following (surprisingly wide) distribution –

    2-2-2 ... One
    1-2 ... One
    3-2 ... One
    2-2-1 ... One
    1-3 ... One
    3-1 ... One
    2-1-1 ... One
    2-2-3 ... One
    2-3 ... Three
    2-1 ... Four
    2-2 ... Seven !!!

    Relevance viz Labour leadership -

    All of the 3-parters (indicating double barreled names a la Long Bailey) are dim distant past. Furthermore she would be the very first 3-1-2.

    Most of the other serious candidates (Jarvis, Starmer, Phillips, Lewis) are 1-2. There has been only one such PM in the last 120 years. John Major.

    2-2 is what stands out a mile. No less than SEVEN PMs (including current holder) have this attribute. That's a full third of the total. Really striking.

    Points to one person and one only. Lisa Nandy. My pick, as it happens, but that is nothing to do with this.

    Complete drivel. Why are you wasting our time with this amateur numerology based on stale, male and pale prime ministers?
    Yes, I'm totally sure it was meant to be completely serious.
    Whoosh.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Despite being busier than usual today I’ve found the time to do an interesting exercise which I don’t believe has ever been done before – an analysis of PMs since 1900 by number of syllables in their name. So to illustrate, David Lloyd George is 2-1-1. It reveals the following (surprisingly wide) distribution –

    2-2-2 ... One
    1-2 ... One
    3-2 ... One
    2-2-1 ... One
    1-3 ... One
    3-1 ... One
    2-1-1 ... One
    2-2-3 ... One
    2-3 ... Three
    2-1 ... Four
    2-2 ... Seven !!!

    Relevance viz Labour leadership -

    All of the 3-parters (indicating double barreled names a la Long Bailey) are dim distant past. Furthermore she would be the very first 3-1-2.

    Most of the other serious candidates (Jarvis, Starmer, Phillips, Lewis) are 1-2. There has been only one such PM in the last 120 years. John Major.

    2-2 is what stands out a mile. No less than SEVEN PMs (including current holder) have this attribute. That's a full third of the total. Really striking.

    Points to one person and one only. Lisa Nandy. My pick, as it happens, but that is nothing to do with this.

    Complete drivel. Why are you wasting our time with this amateur numerology based on stale, male and pale prime ministers?
    Yes, I'm totally sure it was meant to be completely serious.
    Whoosh.
    Fair point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,854

    She sounds sane. If for example she was in charge of an elderly relative's care, you'd feel comforted by that.

    If Lavery was in charge of that relative, though.....you'd be waiting for a Power of Attorney in his favour to mysteriously surface.

    That's a good one - much better than the hackneyed "Who would you like to have a pint with?" - but I'm not sure that "Boris" would score too well on it.

    Can you imagine.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,854
    RobD said:

    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.

    Very young, though, let's remember. Bit of slack maybe?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,854

    Complete drivel. Why are you wasting our time with this amateur numerology based on stale, male and pale prime ministers?

    All women leaders have three-syllable first names: Margaret Thatcher, Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May, Angela Merkel, Jacinda Arden, Indira Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto. The list goes on and on.

    Step forward Rebecca Long-Bailey. Or Angela Rayner. Or Jessica Phillips. Damn! It's all of them!

    :smile:

    I did Thatcher as 2-2.

    Pronunciation over literal wording. Margret.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    The mighty German car industry.... might just go the same way as ours.
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killer-mercedes-benz-eqc-flops-germany/

    That's not surprising, no European car marques have made the jump to electric well. A lot of this is down to regulators pushing diesel for so many years as a "cleaner" alternative to petrol and complacency within manufacturers in the premium sector.

    The only saving grace is that the Model 3 is so awful that JLR, BMW etc... might still have some room to make a £45k electric saloon car that feels a lot more premium than the Model 3.
    I think building hybrids hurt them as well. It has reinforced an image of limited range. A friend moved from ICE E class to hybrid E class and thought it very disappointing, less than 20 miles on a charge and handled a lot worse because of the extra weight.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    WWIII being added to the pile of reasons to hold on to the Jezziah.

    twitter.com/carmel_prescott/status/1213177261844774913?s=20

    Silly really, HMG is quite capable of covering the vital impotent bleating requirements of the country.

    The Tw@tterverse is getting very excited by Jezza's letter.
    Oozing through Corbyn's letter is a deep regret that one of his friends should have been offed in such a forthright manner.
    It is amazing what ooze can be found by a biased reader. There is nothing in his letter remotely connected to such regret. The only question that would be different if it was a Labour govt and Tory opposition would be number 4. All the other questions are completely neutral and just getting an update on what has happened and the UKs response.
    Any interference with Jeremy's friends in the middle East by the great Satan is cause for a letter. What other letters has he written to the Prime Minister?
    Plenty, you know perfectly well Loto and PMs write to each other frequently.
    Oh. Sorry. Could you send me a link to the other ones he's sent since he announced he'd be stepping down.
    If you could list the bigger international incidents that have happened since he announced he is stepping down I shall have a look.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    O.k, I'll admit some Leavers are thick as pig shit.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/people_paul/status/1212360617681719297

    nunu2 said:

    O.k, I'll admit some Leavers are thick as pig shit.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/people_paul/status/1212360617681719297

    This is who the Tories have got in bed with.
    Silly comment
    Every party as some idiots voting for it.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    I agree with David that Lisa Nandy is a good value bet at 12/1 but I think the real value here could be Angela Rayner. She is at 70 on Betfair and it is not hard to imagine a scenario where the left decide RLB / Ian Lavery won't cut it and decide to fall behind Rayner as their candidate.
  • Ok maybe its me being grumpy but why are football matches having a delayed start of a minute so everyone can watch a video on mental health? Wokeness gone too far ? It assumes people who on their Saturday off from work want to be fed this when going to a unrelated football match .yes football players and fans suffer from mental health as everyone does but it is not specific to the sport . Its always a good adage that politics should be kept from sport , I think wokeness should be added to the list of things kept away from sport . FFS let people enjoy their leisure time without complicating it or making them feel like they have to back a cause
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.

    Very young, though, let's remember. Bit of slack maybe?
    Yep
    She has plenty of time to lose more safe seats to the tories.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.

    Very young, though, let's remember. Bit of slack maybe?
    Don't people's attitudes become more entrenched as they age? :p
  • kjohnw1kjohnw1 Posts: 95
    HYUFD said:
    Didn’t she yet again vote against brexit before Christmas ?, despite representing a leave constituency, good luck with reconnecting with the leave North!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,586
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.

    Very young, though, let's remember. Bit of slack maybe?
    Don't people's attitudes become more entrenched as they age? :p
    I’m more and more convinced that’s wrong.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Delighted that Pidcock lost because of her attitude on that.

    Very young, though, let's remember. Bit of slack maybe?
    You no doubt clocked, but did not note, that she is also a 2-2. Would have been the obvious next PM had she kept her seat.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    edited January 2020

    TOPPING said:

    Gutted that Kinnock has endorsed Nandy for leadership. I am large green on it being him.

    A good endorsement for Nandy though.

    Watch her rise.....
    You reckon? I see her as the Likes Soft Brexit candidate, and she's closely associated with Stephen Kinnock for that (Neil's endorsement would carry more weight). It's a reasonable position given that we're leaving (make the best of it), but not especially appealing to members.

    The YouGov poll downthread is the one we've already seen, no?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922
    kjohnw1 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Didn’t she yet again vote against brexit before Christmas ?, despite representing a leave constituency, good luck with reconnecting with the leave North!
    Voting against Brexit doesn't appear to have done Johnson any harm.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    kjohnw1 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Didn’t she yet again vote against brexit before Christmas ?, despite representing a leave constituency, good luck with reconnecting with the leave North!
    Us northerners are not all Brexit frothing obsessives like you think we are.
  • Ok maybe its me being grumpy but why are football matches having a delayed start of a minute so everyone can watch a video on mental health? Wokeness gone too far ? It assumes people who on their Saturday off from work want to be fed this when going to a unrelated football match .yes football players and fans suffer from mental health as everyone does but it is not specific to the sport . Its always a good adage that politics should be kept from sport , I think wokeness should be added to the list of things kept away from sport . FFS let people enjoy their leisure time without complicating it or making them feel like they have to back a cause

    I would gently say mental health awareness is not 'wokeness' nor a cause. Mental health is in crisis throughout all ages and classes and in many countries. Many who suffer do so in silence, frightened that they will be belittled if seeking help and help is in very short supply. The minute long video is aimed at many who might well be at matches, or know someone who is suffering, and needs help

    A member of my family went to the rescue from an earthquake and saw images that are difficult to comprehend and is receiving long term care for PTSD. He is an ordinary member of the publlic who ran towards the disaster rather than running away

    We all need to be kind to those suffering mental health issues, after all we may be one of them someday
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,572
    If Phillips gets on the ballot, then by so obviously offering herself up as the main target for this sort of crap she may allow the likes of Starmer to largely escape the on-line hate campaigns. That may even be her intention.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    How are people justifying their tantrums to leave Labour if Jess wins on anything other than her criticisms of Corbyn in the past (which frankly have been pretty weaksauce anyway, however colourful)? I was not aware of any policies or factional issues that would justify such dislike, so is it truly just a whinge from Corbynites?

    I do agree with those that say she is someone who could get known by her first name in the same manner as Boris. I don't think that matters at all, but some people get ever so upset about it, so they might like having a Labour leader who can be referred to in the saem way.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    The mighty German car industry.... might just go the same way as ours.
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killer-mercedes-benz-eqc-flops-germany/

    That's not surprising, no European car marques have made the jump to electric well. A lot of this is down to regulators pushing diesel for so many years as a "cleaner" alternative to petrol and complacency within manufacturers in the premium sector.

    The only saving grace is that the Model 3 is so awful that JLR, BMW etc... might still have some room to make a £45k electric saloon car that feels a lot more premium than the Model 3.
    I don't think any car maker other than Tesla has really done that well. The i-pace, for example, has flopped in the US. neither ford nor GM has managed to put out an electric vehicle that sells well. Toyota has done well with the Prius, but their pure electric sales are tiny.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Ok maybe its me being grumpy but why are football matches having a delayed start of a minute so everyone can watch a video on mental health? Wokeness gone too far ? It assumes people who on their Saturday off from work want to be fed this when going to a unrelated football match .yes football players and fans suffer from mental health as everyone does but it is not specific to the sport . Its always a good adage that politics should be kept from sport , I think wokeness should be added to the list of things kept away from sport . FFS let people enjoy their leisure time without complicating it or making them feel like they have to back a cause

    I can understand that reaction sometimes, but with this I'd say that it is only a minute, so it's not that intrusive.
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