Lab should have gone EEA/EFTA they could have argued it was leaving and not really leaving. Playing their critics against each other.
Doubt that but never mind - it's something more topical that interests me more.
Say we (Labour) get a leader you like, and purge all vestiges of antisemitism, and work up a policy offering that is gently reformist, pitched from a place just a smidgen left of centre, if we do all of that in time for the next GE - can you see yourself making the great leap and voting Liberal Democrat?
Clearly Mays deal for Remainers would have kept closer economic ties with the EU but still FOM rights would have gone .
And FOM as a Remainer was one of the best aspects of EU membership for me . Thankfully I can continue to enjoy that with my new EU passport . Thanks mum and dad !
I still don’t think much of the public realize that their FOM is ending , the debate has centered so much on FOM from the EU and not the other way round . Some are going to be in for a nasty shock when they realize they’ve lost that.
Queuing with the Russians at Alicante Airport while the Germans and Irish sail through immigration will be a drag.
May be somewhat karmic if that Russki interference report comes up with anything. Or is ever released.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Johnson kept rolling the dice for it, but Labour were cornered into it.
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
Whilst this Brillo v Thornberry smackdown is tetchy, not sure it is quite the car crash 'gotcha' that Guido has sold it as.
Was just thinking the same until the issue of selective education came up.
Clearly going to a secondary modern didn’t stop her making it.
Nah, she’s doing fine.
I find Neil quite annoying really; he always presents as needlessly bad tempered.
I think Neil over does it sometimes, but it was an open goal and he didn’t miss. Hypocrisy on education is very easy for the voters to understand.
Will salt of the earth Sir Keir grant working class kids, maybe like his younger self, the chance to got to Grammars or maybe get the state to pay for their private schooling?
Regarding the latter, it's quite possible that Starmer could move in that direction. Something like a default position of removing the charitable status of every private school, except those that agree to accept a minimum quota of annual admissions from the LEA list, with the LEA not the school deciding on which pupils would be admitted. The state would pay for the places in the schools which decided to play ball, funded from a reallocation of the extra tax revenue gathered from those private schools which didn't.
This would in effect mean re-introducing the Assisted Places scheme, the cancellation of which was Blunkett's first act at Dept Ed in 1997. Blairism in action, you might say.
Clearly Mays deal for Remainers would have kept closer economic ties with the EU but still FOM rights would have gone .
And FOM as a Remainer was one of the best aspects of EU membership for me . Thankfully I can continue to enjoy that with my new EU passport . Thanks mum and dad !
I still don’t think much of the public realize that their FOM is ending , the debate has centered so much on FOM from the EU and not the other way round . Some are going to be in for a nasty shock when they realize they’ve lost that.
Just as a matter of interest what is a EU passport ?
It’s mostly virtue signalling.
Most people (a very clear majority) visit the EU either for a few working days for work, or for a max of 2-3 weeks on holiday.
Feels like RLB and Nandy have decided to swap approaches for the day.
Labour's "compromise position" on Brexit "didn't satisfy our communities and meant that we weren't trusted," she told the BBC's political editor, Laura Kuenssberg.
And, she added: "We didn't tackle anti-Semitism and we weren't trusted to deal with that issue within our own party."
And yet on here, endlessly, it was stated that Labour's "compromise position" was a very canny high-wire act that the voters would love.
Especially in the north.
AND we were told off for laughing at the back of the class.
Hey now, that's a bit unfair - I certainly took that position and was quite wrong and now look silly, but I don't remember the general view on here thinking it was a canny balancing act.
Kudos for putting your hand up.
No sense in worrying about looking silly for admitting being wrong while being anonymous on the internet I always say.
There was no perfect position for Labour on Brexit during the GE .
It was a case of the least worst outcome . I think they managed to find that least worst outcome .
Yep. Terrible position - the only ones worse were all the possible alternatives.
You could be daring and stand for what you believe and have the courage of your convictions. Lack of coherent conviction does not win elections. People are wanting to vote for competence too. Labour could have done much better.
Five-Thirty Eight have updated their model of the Dem primary race. The key output is the table of probabilities of a given candidate getting at least 50% of delegates:
Biden 43% Sanders 20% No-one (i.e. contested convention) 15% Warren 14% Buttigieg 7% All others: Less than 1%
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
It's interesting - you wouldn't think I have much patriotic brand loyalty, but you're right, I feel a bit more attached to BA than British Gas. But why do we feel that?
I also slightly prefer BT to Virgin or the mess of rival companies, but that's lingering socialist attachment to the former natioonal company.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
Isn't that a well-established way to make money: acquire a brand with a superior reputation and squeeze every last ounce of value out of it by running it into the ground? I have ten-quid ties in my wardrobe that would have cost 500 guineas if Yves St Laurent had stitched them himself.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
It's interesting - you wouldn't think I have much patriotic brand loyalty, but you're right, I feel a bit more attached to BA than British Gas. But why do we feel that?
I also slightly prefer BT to Virgin or the mess of rival companies, but that's lingering socialist attachment to the former natioonal company.
I'd have assumed with gas companies its near impossible to deliver brand loyalty because there's no difference in service between any of them, whereas other utilities there can be, or used to be, to allow a loyalty to develop which can then be used to excuse things in future.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
It's interesting - you wouldn't think I have much patriotic brand loyalty, but you're right, I feel a bit more attached to BA than British Gas. But why do we feel that?
I also slightly prefer BT to Virgin or the mess of rival companies, but that's lingering socialist attachment to the former natioonal company.
I know why I do Nick but I’m baffled to explain it from your perspective!
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
It's interesting - you wouldn't think I have much patriotic brand loyalty, but you're right, I feel a bit more attached to BA than British Gas. But why do we feel that?
I also slightly prefer BT to Virgin or the mess of rival companies, but that's lingering socialist attachment to the former natioonal company.
Fear, Dr P. BA have perhaps previously flown you without issue. Xenophobia too - Johnny foreigner can't possibly fly a plane.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Johnson kept rolling the dice for it, but Labour were cornered into it.
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
Nicola Sturgeon played her like a fiddle. No wonder she was ecstatic that the SNP took her seat.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
Isn't that a well-established way to make money: acquire a brand with a superior reputation and squeeze every last ounce of value out of it by running it into the ground? I have ten-quid ties in my wardrobe that would have cost 500 guineas if Yves St Laurent had sown them himself.
Yes, that works in the short-term but not in the long-term. Not that most investors care that much, of course.
M&S seem to have come back from the dead more than once. Jaguar has survived more than once.
The AA and RAC aren’t members clubs anymore but money-rinsing private equity schemes.
Some - Bentley, Fortnum and Mason, Twinings, Baxter, Walkers and Aston Martin have never lost it.
Some - Harrods and Burberry - got bloody close to it by going too bling.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Johnson kept rolling the dice for it, but Labour were cornered into it.
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
Nicola Sturgeon played her like a fiddle. No wonder she was ecstatic that the SNP took her seat.
I don't think Jo's taking it very well. BBC Scotland have a piece about job-hunting ex-mps but PMJ doesn't want to talk about it:
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Johnson kept rolling the dice for it, but Labour were cornered into it.
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
Nicola Sturgeon played her like a fiddle. No wonder she was ecstatic that the SNP took her seat.
Was she aware she was playing her, or was it an unholy alliance at the time where both parties thought they’d get what they wanted out of it without really impacting much on the other?
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
It's interesting - you wouldn't think I have much patriotic brand loyalty, but you're right, I feel a bit more attached to BA than British Gas. But why do we feel that?
I also slightly prefer BT to Virgin or the mess of rival companies, but that's lingering socialist attachment to the former natioonal company.
I'd have assumed with gas companies its near impossible to deliver brand loyalty because there's no difference in service between any of them, whereas other utilities there can be, or used to be, to allow a loyalty to develop which can then be used to excuse things in future.
Hmm. But British Gas (on name and reputation alone) held onto millions of customers for years and years. They had those reassuring cosy homely adverts, remember?
But, I even managed to convince my parents (as small-c conservative as they come, as well as big C) to switch, in their case to Octupus.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Johnson kept rolling the dice for it, but Labour were cornered into it.
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
Nicola Sturgeon played her like a fiddle. No wonder she was ecstatic that the SNP took her seat.
I don't think Jo's taking it very well. BBC Scotland have a piece about job-hunting ex-mps but PMJ doesn't want to talk about it:
Yesterday's Men The BBC enraged Harold Wilson and his outgoing government after they lost the 1970 General Election. They were effectively tricked into taking part in a programme that would ridicule them. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gc1jd
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
The tory party will never control immigration because it benefits big business and Labour party will never control immigration because they see it as a source of future block votes.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Johnson kept rolling the dice for it, but Labour were cornered into it.
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
Nicola Sturgeon played her like a fiddle. No wonder she was ecstatic that the SNP took her seat.
I don't think Jo's taking it very well. BBC Scotland have a piece about job-hunting ex-mps but PMJ doesn't want to talk about it:
Yesterday's Men The BBC enraged Harold Wilson and his outgoing government after they lost the 1970 General Election. They were effectively tricked into taking part in a programme that would ridicule them. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gc1jd
Although, in the event "tomorrow belonged to them" (for a while). Thanks for the link. It reminded me of the TW3 joke about the Minister of Agriculture living in a house while the Minister for Housing lived on a farm. (Younger readers ... just ignore.)
Five-Thirty Eight have updated their model of the Dem primary race. The key output is the table of probabilities of a given candidate getting at least 50% of delegates:
Biden 43% Sanders 20% No-one (i.e. contested convention) 15% Warren 14% Buttigieg 7% All others: Less than 1%
The tory party will never control immigration because it benefits big business and Labour party will never control immigration because they see it as a source of future block votes.
Sigh.
I just hope that as a country we can be intelligent about it. When we have 2 million unemployed because of recession, when the pickup occurs we need no immigration apart from very specialised areas and we can put as many people here on unemployment assistance back to work as quickly as possible. As the labour market tightens we can then increase immigration.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
What was hard to predict was that doing a deal that betrayed the DUP would kill the Brexit Party. The Benn Act was the biggest strategic mistake made by Remain because it prevented Boris Johnson being hoist by his own petard.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
The transfers at Hendon CLP nomination meeting in the Deputy nomination
Murray eliminated: 7 to Khan, 1 to Burgon, 1 to Rayner, 1 non transferable Butler eliminated: 6 to Rayner, 2 to Khan, 2 to Burgon, 2 NT Rayner eliminated: 11 to Khan, 4 to Burgon, 7 NT
“You know, we have to protect Thomas Edison and we have to protect all of these people that came up with originally the light bulb and the wheel and all of these things. And he’s one of our very smart people and we want to cherish those people,” the president said...
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
Star Alliance have United and Air Canada for North America and many decent Asia Pacific airlines, plus Lufthansa if a short local connection is an option.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
Star Alliance have United and Air Canada for North America and many decent Asia Pacific airlines, plus Lufthansa if a short local connection is an option.
Yeah they have ANA as well I think, so might be a good one to look into. We don't really bother with Europe a lot, I think I've been to Europe for business once in the last couple of years. Cathay was good for HK and JAL for Japan plus BA and AA for the US and Canada. OW is a really strong alliance but BA are such a huge weak link now, it's a huge shame because it used to be one of our strongest national assets in terms of "this is what the UK does well".
Surely United sack Ole and ask Levy if they can pay Poch's buy out fee.
Perhaps Ole should go, but United need to get realistic that the problem goes deeper than the manager. Frankly since they are unlikely to be top 4 or relegated this season I'd say leave the manager for another meeting and focus on the structure of the club first.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
What was hard to predict was that doing a deal that betrayed the DUP would kill the Brexit Party. The Benn Act was the biggest strategic mistake made by Remain because it prevented Boris Johnson being hoist by his own petard.
That and the smart arsery of the ultra Remainers in Parliament ( remember the wordsmithing of the “non meaningful vote”, which meant Parliament was trying to give the impression it would pass Brexit in theory but never actually voted for anything that would enact it in practice). The public saw through it. Govt by lawyers was delivered a frying pan of reality to the face by the voters. After which it’s hard to look smart really.
Hendon CLP nominates Starmer (Allin Khan for Deputy)
Guildford CLP nominates Thornberry
South Derbyshire CLP nominates Nandy (Butler for Deputy)
Is that the first CLP for Nandy?
Yes - though she no longer needs them. Looking a bit better for Thornberry who now has 3 - from 25 CLPs declared.
The big question is how many CLPs will bother at all. I expected a more rapid pace tbh, starting to think we might only see a hundred or so, in which case the 33 (I think) needed will be tough. Even 200 wouldn't make it easy.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
Given that in such a situation either:
1. The Johnson deal would have been passed after he offered a longer program motion; or 2. His argument of 'Get Brexit Done' would only be stronger;
I suspect he'd have won just as big or bigger. Maybe in #1 his USP would be gone and he would have underperformed, but I wouldn't bet on it (and even if he had, the LDs wanted to stop Brexit, not let it go through for electoral reasons).
I must admit I don't understand this view. Clearly the election was bad for the non-Tory parties (bar the SNP, kinda), but their alternative wasn't no election. It was an election a month or two later with the dynamics at best the same and Brexit probably passed. Given the options available to them I don't think it was a mistake.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
With the greatest respect ... you must be the last person on the planet to realise this. Anyone who's flown cattle class in the last five years will have long since come to the same conclusion. Transatlantic: fly Virgin - Europe: fly Easyjet - Far East: fly almost anyone except Qantas.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
Given that in such a situation either:
1. The Johnson deal would have been passed after he offered a longer program motion; or 2. His argument of 'Get Brexit Done' would only be stronger;
I suspect he'd have won just as big or bigger. Maybe in #1 his USP would be gone and he would have underperformed, but I wouldn't bet on it (and even if he had, the LDs wanted to stop Brexit, not let it go through for electoral reasons).
I must admit I don't understand this view. Clearly the election was bad for the non-Tory parties (bar the SNP, kinda), but their alternative wasn't no election. It was an election a month or two later with the dynamics at best the same and Brexit probably passed. Given the options available to them I don't think it was a mistake.
Their alternative was an election while Johnson was still having to threaten No Deal. That would have kept the Brexit Party in play, and driven a wedge into the Tory party.
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
Given that in such a situation either:
1. The Johnson deal would have been passed after he offered a longer program motion; or 2. His argument of 'Get Brexit Done' would only be stronger;
I suspect he'd have won just as big or bigger. Maybe in #1 his USP would be gone and he would have underperformed, but I wouldn't bet on it (and even if he had, the LDs wanted to stop Brexit, not let it go through for electoral reasons).
I must admit I don't understand this view. Clearly the election was bad for the non-Tory parties (bar the SNP, kinda), but their alternative wasn't no election. It was an election a month or two later with the dynamics at best the same and Brexit probably passed. Given the options available to them I don't think it was a mistake.
Their alternative was an election while Johnson was still having to threaten No Deal. That would have kept the Brexit Party in play, and driven a wedge into the Tory party.
Why would he have had to threaten no deal? He didn't in the election which happened, certainly not in any sense which harmed him.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
With the greatest respect ... you must be the last person on the planet to realise this. Anyone who's flown cattle class in the last five years will have long since come to the same conclusion. Transatlantic: fly Virgin - Europe: fly Easyjet - Far East: fly almost anyone except Qantas.
Trivia Question: where does the word 'Qantas' com from?
It does make me wonder how Wilson avoided being taken apart by the Tories in 1974 in the same way.He was unable to answer the question as to what his recommendation would be. Moreover, Labour's 1974 Manifestos were more left wing than the 2019 version.
I give great credit to Johnson. He framed and timed this GE perfectly. It left Labour in a Brexit election with nowhere to go on Brexit. It was high risk, ruthless politics and it worked.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
Given that in such a situation either:
1. The Johnson deal would have been passed after he offered a longer program motion; or 2. His argument of 'Get Brexit Done' would only be stronger;
I suspect he'd have won just as big or bigger. Maybe in #1 his USP would be gone and he would have underperformed, but I wouldn't bet on it (and even if he had, the LDs wanted to stop Brexit, not let it go through for electoral reasons).
I must admit I don't understand this view. Clearly the election was bad for the non-Tory parties (bar the SNP, kinda), but their alternative wasn't no election. It was an election a month or two later with the dynamics at best the same and Brexit probably passed. Given the options available to them I don't think it was a mistake.
Their alternative was an election while Johnson was still having to threaten No Deal. That would have kept the Brexit Party in play, and driven a wedge into the Tory party.
Why would he have had to threaten no deal? He didn't in the election which happened, certainly not in any sense which harmed him.
Because he had already put his cards on the table by agreeing the deal and betraying the DUP. Prior to that he would have had to run on HYUFD's "we're leaving deal or no deal" mantra, which would have led to a much more volatile campaign.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
With the greatest respect ... you must be the last person on the planet to realise this. Anyone who's flown cattle class in the last five years will have long since come to the same conclusion. Transatlantic: fly Virgin - Europe: fly Easyjet - Far East: fly almost anyone except Qantas.
Trivia Question: where does the word 'Qantas' com from?
“You know, we have to protect Thomas Edison and we have to protect all of these people that came up with originally the light bulb and the wheel and all of these things. And he’s one of our very smart people and we want to cherish those people,” the president said...
The wheel ??
Them Mesopotamians are honorary Yankees ain't they? Wonderful that they came up with the wheel with all those dinosaurs roaming the earth.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
With the greatest respect ... you must be the last person on the planet to realise this. Anyone who's flown cattle class in the last five years will have long since come to the same conclusion. Transatlantic: fly Virgin - Europe: fly Easyjet - Far East: fly almost anyone except Qantas.
No, I realised a while ago but I've just been on the continual chase for gold status each year. Essential now I'll have to lose my status and start again with a new alliance meaning no lounges, upgrades or fast security for a while. Until now it was worth the shite BA service to keep the rest, but I've reached the end of the road with them after today's ordeal.
Also, the business service has also gone to shit with BA, they are falling behind the generally terrible US airlines as well now. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start to falter in the next couple of years as corporates start to switch off because of poor customer service and substandard airside and in-air service compared to competing airlines and alliances.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
Star Alliance have United and Air Canada for North America and many decent Asia Pacific airlines, plus Lufthansa if a short local connection is an option.
Yeah they have ANA as well I think, so might be a good one to look into. We don't really bother with Europe a lot, I think I've been to Europe for business once in the last couple of years. Cathay was good for HK and JAL for Japan plus BA and AA for the US and Canada. OW is a really strong alliance but BA are such a huge weak link now, it's a huge shame because it used to be one of our strongest national assets in terms of "this is what the UK does well".
ANA are brilliant. I shared a flight last year with then Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt and his family. If it's good enough for him...
BA have been underwhelming for years. The best thing about BA is Terminal 5 and the adjacent Sofitel.
Because he had already put his cards on the table by agreeing the deal and betraying the DUP. Prior to that he would have had to run on HYUFD's "we're leaving deal or no deal" mantra, which would have led to a much more volatile campaign.
Joking aside I think I am literally misunderstanding you. I thought we were talking about a later election, where opposition parties blocked a snap election for another couple of months until the gridlock became unbearable. Why couldn't he have run on the same deal just later?
You could be daring and stand for what you believe and have the courage of your convictions. Lack of coherent conviction does not win elections. People are wanting to vote for competence too. Labour could have done much better.
On Brexit the party was genuinely split but the most 'conviction position' would have been Ref2 with a commitment to support Remain. Which pretty much WAS the position.
Hendon CLP nominates Starmer (Allin Khan for Deputy)
Guildford CLP nominates Thornberry
South Derbyshire CLP nominates Nandy (Butler for Deputy)
Is that the first CLP for Nandy?
Yes - though she no longer needs them. Looking a bit better for Thornberry who now has 3 - from 25 CLPs declared.
The big question is how many CLPs will bother at all. I expected a more rapid pace tbh, starting to think we might only see a hundred or so, in which case the 33 (I think) needed will be tough. Even 200 wouldn't make it easy.
I assumed, maybe incorrectly that all CLPs would at least have a meeting and vote,
Given that the time table of the election was only layed out a couple of weeks ago and, organizing a whole CLP election will take some admin, to find and book a room big enough, and then send out invites. I would expect a lot to be clustered in the last week or so, (7-14 Feb I think) probably quite difficult to cancel ones the invites are sent out.
Has anybody kept a tally of how many people voted in each CLP and how many votes each candidate got in each election? the few results ive seen seem to be about 100 voters per CLP but no idea if tha'ts typical or if they are big or small CLPs
Because he had already put his cards on the table by agreeing the deal and betraying the DUP. Prior to that he would have had to run on HYUFD's "we're leaving deal or no deal" mantra, which would have led to a much more volatile campaign.
Joking aside I think I am literally misunderstanding you. I thought we were talking about a later election, where opposition parties blocked a snap election for another couple of months until the gridlock became unbearable. Why couldn't he have run on the same deal just later?
Yes, we're talking at cross-purposes. I'm suggesting they would have been better off giving him an earlier election before he'd reached a deal.
Failing that, postponing it would have been marginally better because it would have given time for it to sink in that he had completely gone back on his promises about an Irish Sea border, although the Benn Act gave him an easy way to blame the opposition for that.
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
With the greatest respect ... you must be the last person on the planet to realise this. Anyone who's flown cattle class in the last five years will have long since come to the same conclusion. Transatlantic: fly Virgin - Europe: fly Easyjet - Far East: fly almost anyone except Qantas.
Trivia Question: where does the word 'Qantas' com from?
On British Airways, I still have a bit of patriotic loyalty to the brand.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
I think my experience today ended any brand or patriotic loyalty I had left for them. It's now a Spanish airline run by cost cutting Spaniards who clearly don't care about upholding a level of service expected from BA customers. I'm still not sure which points system to go into next, I need to put something together for the girl who does our flights at work, it's one thing to fuck BA off, but they need to be replaced by an airline alliance that offers direct flights to Japan and many other Asian cities as well as direct flights to North America.
Star Alliance have United and Air Canada for North America and many decent Asia Pacific airlines, plus Lufthansa if a short local connection is an option.
Yeah they have ANA as well I think, so might be a good one to look into. We don't really bother with Europe a lot, I think I've been to Europe for business once in the last couple of years. Cathay was good for HK and JAL for Japan plus BA and AA for the US and Canada. OW is a really strong alliance but BA are such a huge weak link now, it's a huge shame because it used to be one of our strongest national assets in terms of "this is what the UK does well".
ANA are brilliant. I shared a flight last year with then Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt and his family. If it's good enough for him...
BA have been underwhelming for years. The best thing about BA is Terminal 5 and the adjacent Sofitel.
Tbf, I don't use the Sofitel, I live in London so my Uber ride is never that expensive regardless of when I need to get there or land. I'll definitely look into what direct flights are available with Star Alliance from Heathrow and City airport. If they have some decent European flights from the latter it may help convince people as they will also look to change their personal points programmes.
Of course Johnson actually wanted the election a couple of months earlier - in mid-October.In the end , the LDs shot themselves in the foot by combining with the SNP to give him his pre-Christmas Brexit election - and effectively left Labour with no choice beyond acquiescing.That was the crucial error - and the LDs - in particular - paid heavily for it. How different would the election outcome have been had the Opposition parties allowed the chaos and paralysis to continue into 2020 , forcing a Dissolution in mid-January with an election held in late February?
That would have given Labour a better chance. Ditto (and best of all) no Benn Act and force Johnson to own a choice of No Deal or Extension.
Basically the Opposition should have been more ruthless instead of poncing around and thinking about the national interest.
The tory party will never control immigration because it benefits big business and Labour party will never control immigration because they see it as a source of future block votes.
Sigh.
The Tories are introducing a points based immigration system
Comments
Say we (Labour) get a leader you like, and purge all vestiges of antisemitism, and work up a policy offering that is gently reformist, pitched from a place just a smidgen left of centre, if we do all of that in time for the next GE - can you see yourself making the great leap and voting Liberal Democrat?
It was Jo Swinson who fell victim to supreme hubris this time, making even Theresa May look good.
She’s still pretty Left-wing and there’s a real chance to build an election-winning coalition to form a Government there.
Most people (a very clear majority) visit the EU either for a few working days for work, or for a max of 2-3 weeks on holiday.
Neither will be affected.
However, that’s fast wearing thin. They are overpriced and the service is now virtually indistinguishable from EasyJet.
British Airways should be aware they can very easily become British Gas, which commands virtually no brand loyalty at all.
If Starmer faces RLB, LN and ET, are we likely to see a reprise of this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/the-one-photo-that-summed-up-the-whole-90-minute-bbc-leaders-debate-10183353.html
For example Sanders is like a Train, and Buttigieg is like a virus.
Huge caveat: I'm massively under-water on these markets, and I've yet to win a bean on US politics.
I also slightly prefer BT to Virgin or the mess of rival companies, but that's lingering socialist attachment to the former natioonal company.
All these small things add up.
M&S seem to have come back from the dead more than once. Jaguar has survived more than once.
The AA and RAC aren’t members clubs anymore but money-rinsing private equity schemes.
Some - Bentley, Fortnum and Mason, Twinings, Baxter, Walkers and Aston Martin have never lost it.
Some - Harrods and Burberry - got bloody close to it by going too bling.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51191890
I’m inclined to believe the latter.
But, I even managed to convince my parents (as small-c conservative as they come, as well as big C) to switch, in their case to Octupus.
Pass the smelling salts to OGH.
I’m not sure he won’t.
The BBC enraged Harold Wilson and his outgoing government after they lost the 1970 General Election. They were effectively tricked into taking part in a programme that would ridicule them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gc1jd
https://mobile.twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1220059953123266561
Guildford CLP nominates Thornberry
South Derbyshire CLP nominates Nandy (Butler for Deputy)
Sigh.
Obama picked him to bag blue collar votes...that's Biden's appeal but he looks very old
Keir Starmer 16 CLPs
Rebecca Long-Bailey 5
Emily Thornberry 3
Nandy 1
Angela Rayner 13
Dawn Butler 4
Richard Burgon 3
Rosena Allin-Khan 3
Ian Murray 2
Burnley 2-O at Old Trafford.
Murray eliminated: 7 to Khan, 1 to Burgon, 1 to Rayner, 1 non transferable
Butler eliminated: 6 to Rayner, 2 to Khan, 2 to Burgon, 2 NT
Rayner eliminated: 11 to Khan, 4 to Burgon, 7 NT
https://twitter.com/DannyKudos/status/1220096205054730241/photo/1
Which seems to have drawn the attention of a fellow stable genius...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/trump-likens-elon-musk-to-thomas-edison-as-one-of-our-great-geniuses.html
Musk is “one of our great geniuses, and we have to protect our genius,” Trump said in an interview with “Squawk Box” co-host Joe Kernen from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
“You know, we have to protect Thomas Edison and we have to protect all of these people that came up with originally the light bulb and the wheel and all of these things. And he’s one of our very smart people and we want to cherish those people,” the president said...
The wheel ??
1. The Johnson deal would have been passed after he offered a longer program motion; or
2. His argument of 'Get Brexit Done' would only be stronger;
I suspect he'd have won just as big or bigger. Maybe in #1 his USP would be gone and he would have underperformed, but I wouldn't bet on it (and even if he had, the LDs wanted to stop Brexit, not let it go through for electoral reasons).
I must admit I don't understand this view. Clearly the election was bad for the non-Tory parties (bar the SNP, kinda), but their alternative wasn't no election. It was an election a month or two later with the dynamics at best the same and Brexit probably passed. Given the options available to them I don't think it was a mistake.
(Says the man with a bet on Burnley)
EDIT: Disallowed!
Wonderful that they came up with the wheel with all those dinosaurs roaming the earth.
Also, the business service has also gone to shit with BA, they are falling behind the generally terrible US airlines as well now. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start to falter in the next couple of years as corporates start to switch off because of poor customer service and substandard airside and in-air service compared to competing airlines and alliances.
BA have been underwhelming for years. The best thing about BA is Terminal 5 and the adjacent Sofitel.
Given that the time table of the election was only layed out a couple of weeks ago and, organizing a whole CLP election will take some admin, to find and book a room big enough, and then send out invites. I would expect a lot to be clustered in the last week or so, (7-14 Feb I think) probably quite difficult to cancel ones the invites are sent out.
Has anybody kept a tally of how many people voted in each CLP and how many votes each candidate got in each election? the few results ive seen seem to be about 100 voters per CLP but no idea if tha'ts typical or if they are big or small CLPs
Failing that, postponing it would have been marginally better because it would have given time for it to sink in that he had completely gone back on his promises about an Irish Sea border, although the Benn Act gave him an easy way to blame the opposition for that.
Basically the Opposition should have been more ruthless instead of poncing around and thinking about the national interest.
We see it the same way.