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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Which way will the Brexit trackers go after Friday?

24

Comments

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 741

    CatMan said:

    speedy2 said:



    You can get a French passport without speaking French?

    Wow. They've changed.

    I have a French mother, so luckily for me that makes me a French National. Unfortunately growing up I was crap at languages, so I never really bothered. I'm trying to rectify it now though!
    [swaggering] Man, I've got GCSE A-grades in both German AND French :)
    Well I envy you sir. Can you come and teach me please?!
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    Andy_JS said:

    "The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the rest of mainland China (not including Hong Kong and Macao)."

    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china

    This will add fuel to the conspiracy theories:

    Arrested for receiving millions from Wuhan University of Technology.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197
    speedy2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    speedy2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Endillion said:

    Lots of people around tonight who seem to think Remain "won the argument".

    Well it didn't in 2016. In 2056, who knows...
    And then in 2096 we leave again.
    The biggest obstacle to rejoin will be that we will have to go through all this again.
    Your confidence in being a member of the 2096 Brexit party is admirable. :smile:
    Nothing is certain that far in the future, except the SNP demanding another scottish referendum.
    To be fair, that will be a generation.....
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    If you do not understand why, then you have missed the whole point of what the Govt has done today and over the last 12 months.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867

    If you do not understand why, then you have missed the whole point of what the Govt has done today and over the last 12 months.
    I understand why. I need help with the how and what.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 741
    edited January 28
    *Deleted* (Old news)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    CatMan said:

    *Deleted* (Old news)

    Hopefully Trump will lose in November...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 741
    CatMan said:

    *Deleted* (Old news)

    Here's some up to date news:

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,429
    Four coronavirus infections in Germany now, all infected by the Chinese woman - who apparently only became symptomatic on her return flight to China...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 25,383
    ydoethur said:

    What do people see in Richard Burgon?
    He’s a blank plank onto which you can project your own smiley face.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197
    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the rest of mainland China (not including Hong Kong and Macao)."

    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china

    This will add fuel to the conspiracy theories:

    Arrested for receiving millions from Wuhan University of Technology.
    "The case was one of three presented Tuesday by federal authorities in Massachusetts, with each underscoring U.S. concerns that the Chinese government is trying to obtain cutting-edge U.S. research by exploiting U.S. universities."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/harvards-chemistry-chair-charged-on-alleged-undisclosed-ties-to-china-11580228768

    Coincidence of timing, given today's Huawei decision by the UK? Thinking not.....
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited January 28

    If you do not understand why, then you have missed the whole point of what the Govt has done today and over the last 12 months.
    I understand why. I need help with the how and what.
    The NCSC has been telling the telco's to remove Huawei from the core part of their networks for the past two years. Vodafone has none in it's core now, BT has been removing Huawei kit for the past 12 months but has not finished the job. This was all voluntary, but today the Govt defined what a core service is and what a non-core service is and stated that they will make it illegal for core services to use Huawei kit. No new business for Huawei there. They have also with the 35% restriction allowed the telco's to build on the existing 4G Huawei kit they own with 5G at the RAN section of the network.

    What this means for the future is that when the Huawei kit at the non-core level becomes end of life, just because of age it can be replaced by a trusted supplier. This means in 7 to 10 years the UK networks can become Huawei free if the other equipment suppliers step up to the plate.

    The Govt has been very sensible, minimise the risk by defining clearly where the risk is in core and no core and allow the teco's time to replace. Evolution not revolution.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924
    edited January 28

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 387
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    You don't actually hear many people arguing to reverse devolution in Wales, therein lies the difference.
    Also, only one has happened. When we wake up on February 1st as the same person going to the same job as on January 31st a lot will change.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    You don't actually hear many people arguing to reverse devolution in Wales, therein lies the difference.
    But the result was much closer, no?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,685

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    Do you really think it more expensive to be in current EU deal than a FTA one so that rejoining closes hospitals? We were paying over about about £9B a year net, 0.6% of our GDP. For that we got frictionless trade with the worlds second biggest economy and worlds biggest trading block.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,526
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    Because that was the right decision....if the EU collapses and goes tits up you won't hear many people critiquing Brexit....
    if the UK goes pear shaped after Brexit...and the EU survives...you will....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 2,562

    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the rest of mainland China (not including Hong Kong and Macao)."

    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china

    This will add fuel to the conspiracy theories:

    Arrested for receiving millions from Wuhan University of Technology.
    "The case was one of three presented Tuesday by federal authorities in Massachusetts, with each underscoring U.S. concerns that the Chinese government is trying to obtain cutting-edge U.S. research by exploiting U.S. universities."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/harvards-chemistry-chair-charged-on-alleged-undisclosed-ties-to-china-11580228768

    Coincidence of timing, given today's Huawei decision by the UK? Thinking not.....
    The thing to remember is university academia's morals & ethics

    If you dont't like their morals and ethics - they have others they can sell you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    edited January 28
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/

    image
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    egg said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    Do you really think it more expensive to be in current EU deal than a FTA one so that rejoining closes hospitals? We were paying over about about £9B a year net, 0.6% of our GDP. For that we got frictionless trade with the worlds second biggest economy and worlds biggest trading block.
    We did not get friction less trade, lorries parked up waiting for a ferry or a train is friction. The City having to implement MIFID and MIFID2 is friction.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    2016 General:

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    You don't actually hear many people arguing to reverse devolution in Wales, therein lies the difference.
    But the result was much closer, no?
    True but it doesn't much matter if people are not that bothered either way. Are you expecting the EU to cease to be an issue after Friday?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197
    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 741
    To be fair, she sort of has already defeated Trump once.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
  • Is this a declaration that she might run?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,685

    egg said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    Do you really think it more expensive to be in current EU deal than a FTA one so that rejoining closes hospitals? We were paying over about about £9B a year net, 0.6% of our GDP. For that we got frictionless trade with the worlds second biggest economy and worlds biggest trading block.
    We did not get friction less trade, lorries parked up waiting for a ferry or a train is friction. The City having to implement MIFID and MIFID2 is friction.
    Give it up? LOL. This is where eyes opening, understanding, appreciating the difference between good deal/bad deal begins, not ends. 🙂

    Experiencing the difference. Ah yes. This where the debate, far from lost, starts getting interesting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 14,368
    edited January 28
    Nigelb said:

    Four coronavirus infections in Germany now, all infected by the Chinese woman - who apparently only became symptomatic on her return flight to China...

    That is the problem with the flight evacuation scheme. Imagine being in the plane with just one person breathing out the virus.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales.
    How come Yes won by only 0.6%?

    image
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    egg said:

    egg said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    Do you really think it more expensive to be in current EU deal than a FTA one so that rejoining closes hospitals? We were paying over about about £9B a year net, 0.6% of our GDP. For that we got frictionless trade with the worlds second biggest economy and worlds biggest trading block.
    We did not get friction less trade, lorries parked up waiting for a ferry or a train is friction. The City having to implement MIFID and MIFID2 is friction.
    Give it up? LOL. This is where eyes opening, understanding, appreciating the difference between good deal/bad deal begins, not ends. 🙂

    Experiencing the difference. Ah yes. This where the debate, far from lost, starts getting interesting.
    I do not have a clue what point you are making in this post.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Four coronavirus infections in Germany now, all infected by the Chinese woman - who apparently only became symptomatic on her return flight to China...

    That is the problem with the flight evacuation scheme. Imagine being in the plane with just one person breathing out the virus.
    Yeah. Isn't the point of a quarantine that people stay within it?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/

    image
    I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

    Are you trying to say that because the Welsh Devolution result was close but there has been no attempt to reverse it that therefore there will be no attempt to reverse Brexit?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 2,690
    ydoethur said:

    What do people see in Richard Burgon?
    A question that should be directed towards the comrades of Mid Sussex CLP. What were they thinking tonight?

    Leaving aside such distractions, not a good night overall in Momentum Towers: Starmer 9, Nandy 3, RLB 3, Thornberry 0.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,155
    sarissa said:
    Muscovado involvement?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867

    ydoethur said:

    What do people see in Richard Burgon?
    A question that should be directed towards the comrades of Mid Sussex CLP. What were they thinking tonight?

    Leaving aside such distractions, not a good night overall in Momentum Towers: Starmer 9, Nandy 3, RLB 3, Thornberry 0.
    Looking good for Thornberry.
  • The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 13,542
    McConnell apparently doesn't have the numbers to block new witnesses being called.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 30,473
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/

    image
    I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

    Are you trying to say that because the Welsh Devolution result was close but there has been no attempt to reverse it that therefore there will be no attempt to reverse Brexit?
    Probably yes, no plausible attempt to reverse it.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Not really. The electoral college distorts the popular vote in the US and FPTP distorts the popular vote in the UK. Neither will ever change because the vested interests that benefit from the status quo are too powerful.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562
    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867


    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562
    Too late, the Iowa caucuses are a week away.

    Only way she gets it now is after a deadlocked convention
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 5,505
    HYUFD said:

    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards

    We'd need to get Dave back to negotiate and secure re-entry on the terms of 'Dave's Deal'.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924
    HYUFD said:

    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards

    If it all turns sour voters can still take their revenge on those that brought Brexit down upon us without necessarily rejoining.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/

    image
    I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

    Are you trying to say that because the Welsh Devolution result was close but there has been no attempt to reverse it that therefore there will be no attempt to reverse Brexit?
    Are you saying the Welsh Devo result was more legitimate than the Brexit vote?
  • The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867
    HYUFD said:

    Too late, the Iowa caucuses are a week away.

    Only way she gets it now is after a deadlocked convention
    Erm. Watch the video. She has no desire to run but wants to support the nominee.

    Who will be Biden.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,197

    HYUFD said:

    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards

    We'd need to get Dave back to negotiate and secure re-entry on the terms of 'Dave's Deal'.
    Who is this "Dave" of which you speak?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,284
    HYUFD said:

    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards

    The current set-up is a pretty good equilibrium which may be why the EU was so keen to see it happen. There will be some chaos for a few months, then the UK is patently going to suffer trade disruptions for a few years (we are told, however, that long-term economic outcomes will be better by around 2050).

    The ultimate prize for the EU is probably that a country trying to leave the EU gets dismantled by its own voters, same way Farage cheers on Europeans trying to dismantle the EU.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    Skinner bungs-on Burgon
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 2,562

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    I am quite sure that if, at the next presidential election Trump gets the popular vote and loses in the electoral college, that the Democratic Party will re-discover the perfection of the Electoral College. Odes will be composed in its praise, solemn columns written in Salon....
  • OllyT said:

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Not really. The electoral college distorts the popular vote in the US and FPTP distorts the popular vote in the UK. Neither will ever change because the vested interests that benefit from the status quo are too powerful.
    There are strong historical reasons for the us federal presidential election is not a simple popular vote, it’s up to the individual state to decide how it apportions it’s electors to the popular vote in its state.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    Byronic said:

    ON topic my experience is that Remainers still generally think that it was a bad decision to Leave, but most are now resigned to it, many think endless ongoing chaos (with Corbyn??) was worse, even more now realise a 2nd vote would have been dangerous (and quite possibly lost, again).

    The nation is united behind a kind of "OK fuck it, we voted for it, let's just get on and do it, whatever", sort of mood. Rather British, really.

    Agreed, insofar as that’s my own view. Assume others feel similar.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/

    image
    I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

    Are you trying to say that because the Welsh Devolution result was close but there has been no attempt to reverse it that therefore there will be no attempt to reverse Brexit?
    Are you saying the Welsh Devo result was more legitimate than the Brexit vote?
    I am not saying anything about the legitimacy of either result.

    I am arguing that the closeness of the Brexit vote and the fact that anti-Brexit feeling is not diminishing suggests too me that demand for another vote will build far more quickly than it did after the far more decisive result to join in 1975.

    My point was made in response to MarqueeMark's quaint notion that it's over now and we can all forget about it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867

    Skinner bungs-on Burgon
    Does it occur to Mr Skinner that he would still have his seat if a) Corbyn had not become Lab leader b) pretty much anyone had become Lab leader other than Corbyn c) the evil empire had remained in charge e.g Mandelson/Brown/Campbell etc etc
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856

    OllyT said:

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Not really. The electoral college distorts the popular vote in the US and FPTP distorts the popular vote in the UK. Neither will ever change because the vested interests that benefit from the status quo are too powerful.
    There are strong historical reasons for the us federal presidential election is not a simple popular vote, it’s up to the individual state to decide how it apportions it’s electors to the popular vote in its state.
    The President represents the people across the whole of the USA. Just like an MP represents the people of his/her seat.

    More people voted for Hillary in 2016.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Did somebody say Villa each way?

    I said that Villa were value at 5.2 before the kickoff.

    It’s good to see Leicester knocked out. Their being good is one of the most weirdly annoying things about The Modern Football, along with whining, cosseted non-Mancunian United fans and 4pm Sunday kickoffs.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    I am quite sure that if, at the next presidential election Trump gets the popular vote and loses in the electoral college, that the Democratic Party will re-discover the perfection of the Electoral College. Odes will be composed in its praise, solemn columns written in Salon....
    Except that certainly in modern times the Republicans are the only party that benefits from the bias of the EC, which is not surprising as it gives small rural states a disproportionate number of EC votes compared to the Californias and New Yorks.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,001
    HYUFD said:

    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards

    We won't have left the single market. If the mood turns against it before the end of the year, do you think we ever will?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,155
    Byronic said:

    ON topic my experience is that Remainers still generally think that it was a bad decision to Leave, but most are now resigned to it, many think endless ongoing chaos (with Corbyn??) was worse, even more now realise a 2nd vote would have been dangerous (and quite possibly lost, again).

    The nation is united behind a kind of "OK fuck it, we voted for it, let's just get on and do it, whatever", sort of mood. Rather British, really.

    I'm sure you're right.

    Was Britain Right/Wrong to vote to leave EU (DKs removed)

    Scotland 27/73
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 17,073

    Skinner bungs-on Burgon
    Does it occur to Mr Skinner that he would still have his seat if a) Corbyn had not become Lab leader b) pretty much anyone had become Lab leader other than Corbyn c) the evil empire had remained in charge e.g Mandelson/Brown/Campbell etc etc
    No - he’s one loser endorsing another.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318

    Byronic said:

    ON topic my experience is that Remainers still generally think that it was a bad decision to Leave, but most are now resigned to it, many think endless ongoing chaos (with Corbyn??) was worse, even more now realise a 2nd vote would have been dangerous (and quite possibly lost, again).

    The nation is united behind a kind of "OK fuck it, we voted for it, let's just get on and do it, whatever", sort of mood. Rather British, really.

    I'm sure you're right.

    Was Britain Right/Wrong to vote to leave EU (DKs removed)

    Scotland 27/73
    It's possible to think it's wrong but that it should be done.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 33,856

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    I am quite sure that if, at the next presidential election Trump gets the popular vote and loses in the electoral college, that the Democratic Party will re-discover the perfection of the Electoral College. Odes will be composed in its praise, solemn columns written in Salon....
    Gore won more votes than Dubya in 2000....
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,924

    OllyT said:

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Not really. The electoral college distorts the popular vote in the US and FPTP distorts the popular vote in the UK. Neither will ever change because the vested interests that benefit from the status quo are too powerful.
    There are strong historical reasons for the us federal presidential election is not a simple popular vote, it’s up to the individual state to decide how it apportions it’s electors to the popular vote in its state.

    All of which is true but doesn't make the system any less biased. I'm sure there were strong historical reasons for University seats and rotten boroughs in the UK but things progress. Let's face it up to very recently the Conservative Party couldn't see any problem with having an hereditary second chamber with a permanent majority for themselves.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867
    I think it best we all abandon Lab now, and start to work on an alternative Opposition.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,155
    RobD said:

    Byronic said:

    ON topic my experience is that Remainers still generally think that it was a bad decision to Leave, but most are now resigned to it, many think endless ongoing chaos (with Corbyn??) was worse, even more now realise a 2nd vote would have been dangerous (and quite possibly lost, again).

    The nation is united behind a kind of "OK fuck it, we voted for it, let's just get on and do it, whatever", sort of mood. Rather British, really.

    I'm sure you're right.

    Was Britain Right/Wrong to vote to leave EU (DKs removed)

    Scotland 27/73
    It's possible to think it's wrong but that it should be done.
    I think I know a way to test that thesis.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867
    Cyclefree said:

    Skinner bungs-on Burgon
    Does it occur to Mr Skinner that he would still have his seat if a) Corbyn had not become Lab leader b) pretty much anyone had become Lab leader other than Corbyn c) the evil empire had remained in charge e.g Mandelson/Brown/Campbell etc etc
    No - he’s one loser endorsing another.

    Let's hope so. Because if Burgon is deputy leader then lemmings have got a race on their paws to make sure they first over the cliff.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586



    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

    Less con

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    Spot on. The Electoral College makes zero sense in a federal election, they should bin it.

    The equivalent would be having Macron lose the French presidential race - despite commanding the votes of most French citizens - because a random combination of Brittany, Normandy and Alsace happened to vote by a tiny margin for his opponent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867
    PANIC!



    And I am one of those who are panicking. Not just money but four more years of Trump.

    Dems WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586



    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

    Well quite.

    “I was considering voting for you until I met you, now I’m not so sure.”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562



    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

    Less con

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    Spot on. The Electoral College makes zero sense in a federal election, they should bin it.

    The equivalent would be having Macron lose the French presidential race - despite commanding the votes of most French citizens - because a random combination of Brittany, Normandy and Alsace happened to vote by a tiny margin for his opponent.
    California and Texas are about half the size of France by themselves, France is a much more centralised state than the United States of America, the clue is in the title.

    Plus of course French presidents always get over 50% as only 2 candidates are allowed to go to the second round, Hillary only got 48%, 52% of Americans still did not vote for her even if a majority did not vote for Trump either
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    I am quite sure that if, at the next presidential election Trump gets the popular vote and loses in the electoral college, that the Democratic Party will re-discover the perfection of the Electoral College. Odes will be composed in its praise, solemn columns written in Salon....
    Gore won more votes than Dubya in 2000....
    The Canadian Tories won more votes than Trudeau's Liberals last November but Trudeau is still PM and the Liberals still won most seats
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562
    edited January 28

    HYUFD said:

    Even if the mood turns towards thinking Brexit was a mistake by Friday night we will have left the EU, probably with rejoining requiring joining the Euro, Schengen, an EU army etc which would be on even worse terms than before the Brexit vote.

    At most we might rejoin the single market, rejoining the EU is not on the cards

    We won't have left the single market. If the mood turns against it before the end of the year, do you think we ever will?
    Yes as the Tories won a majority on that basis and to end free movement and ECJ jurisdiction, if we rejoin the single market it will likely be under PM Starmer after the next general election
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,867
    edited January 28
    Bed time for me.

    I suspect i will have dreams of Bernie winning Iowa and then it is all the way down to another four years of Trump clown car.

    FFS, Dems, if you happen to read this blog - don't vote for Bernie. Vote for someone who will win, not your bloody heart.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    HYUFD said:



    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

    Less con

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    Spot on. The Electoral College makes zero sense in a federal election, they should bin it.

    The equivalent would be having Macron lose the French presidential race - despite commanding the votes of most French citizens - because a random combination of Brittany, Normandy and Alsace happened to vote by a tiny margin for his opponent.
    California and Texas are about half the size of France by themselves, France is a much more centralised state than the United States of America, the clue is in the title.

    Plus of course French presidents always get over 50% as only 2 candidates are allowed to go to the second round, Hillary only got 48%, 52% of Americans still did not vote for her even if a majority did not vote for Trump either
    Your point is?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562
    edited January 28

    HYUFD said:

    Too late, the Iowa caucuses are a week away.

    Only way she gets it now is after a deadlocked convention
    Erm. Watch the video. She has no desire to run but wants to support the nominee.

    Who will be Biden.
    She will have to grit her teeth then when it is Sanders
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318

    Bed time for me.

    I suspect i will have dreams of Bernie winning Iowa and then it is all the way down to another four years of Trump clown car.

    FFS, Dems, if you happen to read this blog - don't vote for Bernie. Vote for someone who will win not your bloody heart.

    "I'm rottenborough's accountant, and I approve this message" :D
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,155

    Bed time for me.

    I suspect i will have dreams of Bernie winning Iowa and then it is all the way down to another four years of Trump clown car.

    FFS, Dems, if you happen to read this blog - don't vote for Bernie. Vote for someone who will win not your bloody heart.

    Perhaps you should start a letter writing campaign from the UK to influence US voters, I hear that works a treat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,562

    HYUFD said:



    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

    Less con

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    Spot on. The Electoral College makes zero sense in a federal election, they should bin it.

    The equivalent would be having Macron lose the French presidential race - despite commanding the votes of most French citizens - because a random combination of Brittany, Normandy and Alsace happened to vote by a tiny margin for his opponent.
    California and Texas are about half the size of France by themselves, France is a much more centralised state than the United States of America, the clue is in the title.

    Plus of course French presidents always get over 50% as only 2 candidates are allowed to go to the second round, Hillary only got 48%, 52% of Americans still did not vote for her even if a majority did not vote for Trump either
    Your point is?
    Trump won fair and square under the rules of the game and most US voters did not vote for Hillary anyway
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 4,419
    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the rest of mainland China (not including Hong Kong and Macao)."

    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china

    This will add fuel to the conspiracy theories:

    Arrested for receiving millions from Wuhan University of Technology.
    Very mysterious,
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,387
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejoining the EU is something that is going to be a part of the political discord for a long time, especially if the support for it amongst the under 45s remains. Also the Scottish and Northern Ireland aspect of it all isn't going to go away.

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    It's gone. Give it up.
    A 52-48 vote to leave is only going to settle the issue if Brexit is an unqualified success and best prediction we get out of most Brexiteers is that it might not be too bad. You just want to believe the issue is now over and will just go away. It won't.
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Maybe I'm talking bollocks (which is very possible), but unless Brexit turns out to be a massive success (and I'm not sure what that actually would be), rejo

    I'm biased, but I think the harder the Brexit, the quicker we rejoin.

    And which hospitals will you close to pay for the rejoining membership fees?
    Errr none. The increased economic growth will more than pay for it. Plus the benefit of all those extra EU Doctors and Nurses who will be able to come over and work in them.

    Or we could just borrow the money, that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment ;)
    It's gone. Give it up.
    .
    The Welsh Devolution Referendum in 1997 was 50.3%-49.7%...
    There was never a really strong anti-devolution camp in Wales. At the time a lot of people didn't think there was any need for it abut most were not that bothered either way.

    Brexit on the other hand..
    I can assure you that there was a strong anti-devolution feeling in Wales. In the March 1979 Referendum it was rejected overwhelmingly.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    One ancillary absurdity about the Electoral College: the scores mean nothing.

    Obama’s blowout in 2008 is not tangibly better than a 271-269 victory.

    At least with First Past The Post you get more MPs for a landslide.

    The Electoral College assigns an analogue score to a binary contest.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,417
    OllyT said:

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    I am quite sure that if, at the next presidential election Trump gets the popular vote and loses in the electoral college, that the Democratic Party will re-discover the perfection of the Electoral College. Odes will be composed in its praise, solemn columns written in Salon....
    Except that certainly in modern times the Republicans are the only party that benefits from the bias of the EC, which is not surprising as it gives small rural states a disproportionate number of EC votes compared to the Californias and New Yorks.

    Not commenting substantively here on the merits or not of the US system, just an observation.

    The Norwegian electoral system deliberately overweights rural areas compared to urban, on the grounds that urban area naturally have more influence (if nothing else, it's where the political, economic and cultural life of the country is concentrated) and the rural areas deserve something to counteract that.

    What seems axiomatically "fair" to one person is not necessarily seen as "fair" by another, particularly in different social/cultural/historical contexts. When the rules were written for choosing the US president, the issue in question was "how do the States find a way to agree on who to preside over them collectively?" rather than viewing it as some Lockean-style social contract whereby the individuals who formed the citizenry had to strike an agreement on which individual to delegate power to. Obviously times have changed, as has the nature of political power within the United States, so if people want to argue over which of these viewpoints is now the most relevant, have at it! But I do think it would be wrong to treat electoral systems other than "one citizen, one vote" as automatically and inherently unfair and undemocratic, without paying some attention to their context, evolution, theoretical underpinnings and practical ramifications.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Is it possible that during the massive contact rate in a seat like Broxtowe, the doorstep response was:

    a) I will never vote for Corbyn - IRA, anti-semite, loony left, not a PM, fuck off etc etc

    b) Lab are planning to spend money like there is no tomorrow

    Less con

    The only pain greater than losing once to Donald Trump is......
    She won!

    Hillary 48%
    Trump 46%
    She got the fastest 100 metre sprint in the 400 metre mixed hurdles.
    Americans were electing a President for the whole USA. The States don't elect 50 different Presidents, right?
    They do have fifty different elections though. She didn’t win the race that she was competing in.
    It's a seriously crap system, because millions more Americans voted for Hillary than for Trump.
    Spot on. The Electoral College makes zero sense in a federal election, they should bin it.

    The equivalent would be having Macron lose the French presidential race - despite commanding the votes of most French citizens - because a random combination of Brittany, Normandy and Alsace happened to vote by a tiny margin for his opponent.
    California and Texas are about half the size of France by themselves, France is a much more centralised state than the United States of America, the clue is in the title.

    Plus of course French presidents always get over 50% as only 2 candidates are allowed to go to the second round, Hillary only got 48%, 52% of Americans still did not vote for her even if a majority did not vote for Trump either
    Your point is?
    Trump won fair and square under the rules of the game and most US voters did not vote for Hillary anyway
    Had they done so you would still defend the system.

    Face it: it’s an absurdity. If Bill beats Ben 51-48 he can still ‘lose’ under the Electoral College.

    Utterly ridiculous in a federal nationwide vote.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747
    Us Rejoiners need to make much more of an effort to be full throatedly pro-EU, pro-immigration, pro-Euro and pro-Schengen. A compromise position satisfies nobody.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318

    One ancillary absurdity about the Electoral College: the scores mean nothing.

    Obama’s blowout in 2008 is not tangibly better than a 271-269 victory.

    At least with First Past The Post you get more MPs for a landslide.

    The Electoral College assigns an analogue score to a binary contest.

    Because there's only one position to fill? The democrats did very well in the congressional elections on the same day, which translated into more seats.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,586
    RobD said:

    One ancillary absurdity about the Electoral College: the scores mean nothing.

    Obama’s blowout in 2008 is not tangibly better than a 271-269 victory.

    At least with First Past The Post you get more MPs for a landslide.

    The Electoral College assigns an analogue score to a binary contest.

    Because there's only one position to fill? The democrats did very well in the congressional elections on the same day, which translated into more seats.
    Yes, but those are first past the post races.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 747

    One ancillary absurdity about the Electoral College: the scores mean nothing.

    Obama’s blowout in 2008 is not tangibly better than a 271-269 victory.

    At least with First Past The Post you get more MPs for a landslide.

    The Electoral College assigns an analogue score to a binary contest.

    And even more crazy is that it looks like SCOTUS will back faithless electors.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,910

    Byronic said:

    ON topic my experience is that Remainers still generally think that it was a bad decision to Leave, but most are now resigned to it, many think endless ongoing chaos (with Corbyn??) was worse, even more now realise a 2nd vote would have been dangerous (and quite possibly lost, again).

    The nation is united behind a kind of "OK fuck it, we voted for it, let's just get on and do it, whatever", sort of mood. Rather British, really.

    I'm sure you're right.

    Was Britain Right/Wrong to vote to leave EU (DKs removed)

    Scotland 27/73
    Rule 1 of PB: A large proportion of English people find it difficult to cope with even the concepts of Scotland and Northern Ireland. I co-opted the phrase "hemispatial neglect" to cover this behavior. See also "Boris is a one-nation Conservative".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,318
    edited January 29

    RobD said:

    One ancillary absurdity about the Electoral College: the scores mean nothing.

    Obama’s blowout in 2008 is not tangibly better than a 271-269 victory.

    At least with First Past The Post you get more MPs for a landslide.

    The Electoral College assigns an analogue score to a binary contest.

    Because there's only one position to fill? The democrats did very well in the congressional elections on the same day, which translated into more seats.
    Yes, but those are first past the post races.
    They would have still won more seats had it been PR or any such system. Of course the size of the victory in an election to a single office is meaningless - you can't apportion the presidency by vote.
This discussion has been closed.