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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How the papers are treating the Javid sacking

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  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 25,316
    This thread by the superb Peter Foster is a must-read.



    Read it and weep.
  • EPG said:

    Endillion said:

    Okay I'm confused:
    - Cummings is a SpAd
    - That's bad, because he's unelected and unaccountable
    - Cummings has got rid of a lot of other SpAds
    - Those SpAds were also unelected and unaccountable, which is also bad
    - However, Cummings' actions were also bad, because those SpAds were good (for some reason), and the ones he'll replace them with will be bad

    Is that right? I get why people might want one set of SpAds over another, if they prefer the policies that set will push, for whatever reason. But people seem to be objecting on governance grounds, and I just don't understand why it matters in the abstract precisely who has control over which set of unelected and unaccountable individuals get to advise our ministers.

    You're smarter than this. PM and Chancellor is combined too much negotiation and policy to leave to one team. Unless PM is going to pull back on every other policy area, which does not look likely.
    I strongly suspect we are about to see our version of Trump economics. Massive splurge and tax cutting to engineer some kind of mini boom to cover up Brexit.

    Domonomics.

    It'll end in tears.
    HS2 will generate billions of investment and provide long term high qualiity jobs and considerable tax income. I expect a hard brexit unless the EU comes to its senses but I am not fearful for the prospects of the UK
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,416
    HYUFD said:
    Why hasn't he done any of that before running for President? he has enough money.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    My wife and I have been dealing with a couple of health issues over the last few days but I have browsed PB from time to time.

    My impressions are that Boris has moved leading brexiteers into his cabinet and taken complete control. I have no idea how malign or otherwise Cummings is but he has been highly successful in brexit and getting Boris into power

    The noises coming out of the EU give the impression that nothing has changed and that they can still control the economic direction of the UK and hold it close but this cabinet appears to me to be ready to virtually no deal to break the link

    On the domestic situation Boris has turned left and is about to open the spending taps trampling all over labour and making it very difficult for labour to get a hearing

    Of course the opposition to Boris and Cummings on here comes from the usual suspects who would never be converted to the Boris way but then that is not important as the only people who matter to Boris are the voters who, for now at least, seem to be very supportive

    Weren't you the poster who spent months telling us how strongly you were opposed to Boris and how strongly you were opposed to no deal? Now those people who at least have the consistency to have stuck to the same view are dismissed as the "usual suspects".
    Indeed and I do not want no deal, but the EU threatening us with economic damage and restricting our ability to trade and succeed does justify Boris moving to defend our interests as an independent trading nation

    Boris moving left meets with my approval as does huge spending on rail and infrastructure
    Nevertheless those who have simply been consistent and stuck to the same view of Boris that you yourself spent many months sharing on this forum perhaps should be treated with a little more respect?
    I hope I am not disrespecting anyone and certainly do not mean to. We all have our own views and of course there is a great love of the EU by many, but we have left and need to carve out a new role and that does require the EU to recognise it
    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.
    For once I 100% agree with you. Just as the UK is not obliged to sign up to terms that Brussels would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the UK, it remains a distinct possibility.

    If both parties can compromise and treat each other as equals then a deal will be possible.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,387

    And Mike's wrong on detail. Nigel Lawson was sacked 10 years after Thatcher won her famous landslide, when her powers were long waning.

    This is therefore incomparable. He has started out with a very clear message and he's done it with brutal brilliance.

    Lawson was not sacked - he resigned when Thatcher refused to get rid of Alan Walters.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,470



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    The EU might give the Dirty Harry approach a try. Cut down on the talk and go straight for the action ;)


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 272

    Apart from the Express - which I imaging caters for the Trumpite/Putinesque niche of the British public - I'm surprised how negative all those front pages are for Boris. Boris markets himself as being quintessentially British, yet with this stuff he's ridden roughshod over the Great British sense of fair play. The question is now: shorn of his bumbling-but-essentially-decent side, is there anything appealing left?

    I think you will find he is very popular with voters
    But that was simply because he had a cheeky smile and help up Love Actually placards during an Xmas commercial. How radically will they revise their assessment when they realize they've got an insecure megalomaniac on their hands?
    They will only change their minds if he fails to deliver especially in the north
    Not clear that there's a net positive opinion of Johnson. YouGov still have him net negative although Opinium did have a net positive in January. A popular (net positive) LOTO might change minds quite quickly - not saying that we're going to have one of those anytime soon!

    My perception is that the election was more lost by Labour (Corbyn) than won by Johnson - Johnson was the most net negative winner after Blair (2005) at the last election, it's just that Corbyn was perceived to be much worse.

    There is a subset that loves Johnson, but that could also be said of Corbyn!
  • Economically we are not, and never will be the "equal" of the EU27, as Mr Thompson naively believes. We are also not the "equal" of the US, or China. That might make a few people swivel their eyes in jingoistic outrage and displeasure but it is fact. We have a weak negotiating hand and anyone that believes otherwise has been conned, well and truly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816

    12% or so of the country think the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph are left-wing:



    One wonders what they regard as centrist publications.
    Occasionally the Mail Online adopts a centre or centre-left stance on a piece, basically setting the comments up for a "I can't believe the mail is saying this, PC gone mad" take. It's deliberate and obviously the true thought of the author is then conveyed in the comments but I've definitely seen it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,735

    EPG said:

    Endillion said:

    Okay I'm confused:
    - Cummings is a SpAd
    - That's bad, because he's unelected and unaccountable
    - Cummings has got rid of a lot of other SpAds
    - Those SpAds were also unelected and unaccountable, which is also bad
    - However, Cummings' actions were also bad, because those SpAds were good (for some reason), and the ones he'll replace them with will be bad

    Is that right? I get why people might want one set of SpAds over another, if they prefer the policies that set will push, for whatever reason. But people seem to be objecting on governance grounds, and I just don't understand why it matters in the abstract precisely who has control over which set of unelected and unaccountable individuals get to advise our ministers.

    You're smarter than this. PM and Chancellor is combined too much negotiation and policy to leave to one team. Unless PM is going to pull back on every other policy area, which does not look likely.
    I strongly suspect we are about to see our version of Trump economics. Massive splurge and tax cutting to engineer some kind of mini boom to cover up Brexit.

    Domonomics.

    It'll end in tears.
    HS2 will generate billions of investment and provide long term high qualiity jobs and considerable tax income. I expect a hard brexit unless the EU comes to its senses but I am not fearful for the prospects of the UK
    I'm very in favour of HS2 and other long term infrastructure investments. Good time to borrow at low rates. More worried about other splashings of cash when not balanced with some tax take.


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    That has always been a possibility ever since 52% were dumb enough to be conned into this pointless exercise.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,098
    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,387

    Johnson has a thumping mandate. He's soaring in the polls. If ever he has the chance to set out his stall, now is it. He can almost do what he wants. That includes sacking a highly ambitious but overrated Sajid Javid.

    Johnson won. Johnson's in power and has power. The time will come to land blows. This isn't it. I'm afraid that a number of commentators and posters are still stuck in the mindset of the last Parliament.

    It goes back an awful lot further than that. Looking back over the decades, people are so used to the concept of the powerful Chancellor as right-hand man and/or check on the Prime Minister (Osborne, Brown, Clarke, Lawson, Howe, etc etc) that the notion of the Chancellor being just another cabinet minister feels quite alien. But that's what the situation would now appear to be.

    We need to dispense with the idea of No.10 and No.11 acting as a duumvirate and treat Boris Johnson as a more presidential figure. We ought instead to assume that Rishi Sunak's job will be to look after the books and to develop taxation and borrowing options in line with the Prime Minister's needs and priorities, and not to co-determine those needs and priorities himself.
    Perhaps some resemblance to what happened in early 1958 when Peter Thorneycroft and his Treasury team resigned from Macmillan's government to produce 'little local difficulties' for him.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 25,316
    edited February 14
    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    The idea to cut pension relief for those in the 40% band was crass and stupid.

    He is no loss.

    At some point the spending Cummings is planning will have to be paid for. Tax rises will be a part of that. There is no magic money tree.

    Fat cat public sector defined benefit pensions would be a better place to start if you are dumb enough to want to tax pensions.
    It's been done with the pensions taper, with the small side effect of a staffing crisis.
    How much indexed linked pension does a public sector nominal £100,000 get? How much would a private sector pension pay for the same amount?
    This is one of the great injustices of the pension system. For tax purposes, an indexed-linked final-salary pension (i.e. in practice usually a public-sector pension) is treated as though it were equivalent to a pension pot 20 times the initial salary value. So a doctor about to retire on £50,000 pa, totally secure and index-linked, doesn't get hit by the lifetime allowance (currently £1055K).

    For anyone else, who actually has to buy such a pension, the equivalent annuity rate is currently well under 3% (age 65, inflation linked, with a 50% spouse pension). So (leaving aside tax-free sums, which apply in a similar way in both cases) you'd need a pension pot of around £1.7m to match the doctor's deal - which is miles over the lifetime allowance so effectively impossible even if you could have found enough dosh to make the pension contributions to amass a £1.7m pot.

    And the doctors are the ones bitching!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 5,495

    This thread by the superb Peter Foster is a must-read.



    Read it and weep.
    One starts to wonder if Cummings isn't hopelessly out of his depth and is stringing the gullible Boris along.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 29,039



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,109

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    I seem to recall talk of a Long Term Economic Plan. ;)


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    You are so predictable in your love of
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    That has always been a possibility ever since 52% were dumb enough to be conned into this pointless exercise.



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    That has always been a possibility ever since 52% were dumb enough to be conned into this pointless exercise.
    To brand 52% of the nation as dumb is arrogant nonsense
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,266

    This thread by the superb Peter Foster is a must-read.


    A pissed off former Chief Whip, clearly not without ability, and sufficiently young still to be seriously ambitious... no problems there.
  • Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    No - that is exactly how he opened cabinet this morning
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,470

    This thread by the superb Peter Foster is a must-read.

    twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1228083610617622528

    Read it and weep.

    One starts to wonder if Cummings isn't hopelessly out of his depth and is stringing the gullible Boris along.
    Why would anyone wonder?

    I suppose the alternative is that the lazy Boris is happy to let Cummings do the fiddly detail stuff while Boris strides the stage like the international colossus he appears to think he is.

    Echoes of Brown and Blair .....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,387
    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    The idea to cut pension relief for those in the 40% band was crass and stupid.

    He is no loss.

    At some point the spending Cummings is planning will have to be paid for. Tax rises will be a part of that. There is no magic money tree.

    It will be ironic if the next Labour government’s principal task is clearing up the financial mess left by the Tories.
    As was the case in October 1964 and March 1974.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,098

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    No - that is exactly how he opened cabinet this morning
    Small, peeved voice at back of room: How many kids have you got?

    A detachment of the NKVDomski rushes in and bundles the unfortunate off to some northern Gulag.


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,200

    Economically we are not, and never will be the "equal" of the EU27, as Mr Thompson naively believes. We are also not the "equal" of the US, or China. That might make a few people swivel their eyes in jingoistic outrage and displeasure but it is fact. We have a weak negotiating hand and anyone that believes otherwise has been conned, well and truly.

    We do have horrendous weakness in many areas. We also have significant strength in some areas.

    USA, China, EU, India and others will have greater markets, GDP and strengths in various areas. This may steer us to beef up our strengths at the expense of our weaknesses. That could be positive.


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    So you don’t think the UK is smaller than the EU?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 29,039



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    Now that the government has adopted the North Korean model as its preferred approach to Brexit, I guess we'll all just have to get used to juche and stirring pictures of Boris Johnson riding a horse up a mountain.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,200

    This thread by the superb Peter Foster is a must-read.

    twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1228083610617622528

    Read it and weep.

    One starts to wonder if Cummings isn't hopelessly out of his depth and is stringing the gullible Boris along.
    Why would anyone wonder?

    I suppose the alternative is that the lazy Boris is happy to let Cummings do the fiddly detail stuff while Boris strides the stage like the international colossus he appears to think he is.

    Echoes of Brown and Blair .....
    I think that Blair and Cameron who didn't do detail were better PMs then Brown and May who did do detail.

    I don't want a PM who is immersed in detail.


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    So you don’t think the UK is smaller than the EU?
    Of course it is but the larger an organisation it loses the ability to quickly adapt, adopt and improve (as the Round Table motto goes) and we will still trade across Europe and elsewhere with increasing success
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 29,039
    That has to be a carefully set-up spoof, surely?
  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    edited February 14
    Last time I came out of that very airport we queued for about 30 minutes as they check our passports on exit. Perfectly normal. Ps. For all intents and purposes we are still in the EU during the transition.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 80,774
    edited February 14

    That has to be a carefully set-up spoof, surely?
    I’d hope so but you can never tell with Brexiteers.

    I remember seeing Barnsley leavers shocked to learn that leaving the EU meant losing EU structural funds.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 10,671

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    No - that is exactly how he opened cabinet this morning
    He then asked "How many new buses?" and none of them knew the answer!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,470

    Oh Colin.

    twitter.com/colinbrowning14/status/1227906931450425344?s=21

    Last time I came out of that very airport we queued for about 30 minutes as they check our passports on exit. Perfectly normal. Ps. For all intents and purposes we are still in the EU.
    Perception is everything. Facts never matter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    So you don’t think the UK is smaller than the EU?
    I don't think small and nimble is worse than large and sclerotic.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 5,495

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540
    philiph said:

    This thread by the superb Peter Foster is a must-read.

    twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1228083610617622528

    Read it and weep.

    One starts to wonder if Cummings isn't hopelessly out of his depth and is stringing the gullible Boris along.
    Why would anyone wonder?

    I suppose the alternative is that the lazy Boris is happy to let Cummings do the fiddly detail stuff while Boris strides the stage like the international colossus he appears to think he is.

    Echoes of Brown and Blair .....
    I think that Blair and Cameron who didn't do detail were better PMs then Brown and May who did do detail.

    I don't want a PM who is immersed in detail.
    It's a difficult balance and will depend on quality around them and genuine discussion around them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,026

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    No - that is exactly how he opened cabinet this morning
    He then asked "How many new buses?" and none of them knew the answer!
    Depends how quickly he can build them. He's quite a busy guy and painting all those faces on the passengers takes ages.....
  • eekeek Posts: 7,056

    Last time I came out of that very airport we queued for about 30 minutes as they check our passports on exit. Perfectly normal. Ps. For all intents and purposes we are still in the EU during the transition.
    That's still the standard EU exit - I don't see any problem beyond he's picked the wrong time to try to escape the airport and the fact he's cropped the EU flag to pretend to raise a point.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 30,345
    edited February 14

    Economically we are not, and never will be the "equal" of the EU27, as Mr Thompson naively believes. We are also not the "equal" of the US, or China. That might make a few people swivel their eyes in jingoistic outrage and displeasure but it is fact. We have a weak negotiating hand and anyone that believes otherwise has been conned, well and truly.

    Well yes, if I was to put my nationalist hat on then I don't believe we will be equal to Europe, I believe that we are will be better than them.

    But saying so doesn't achieve much and I think we should put our nationalism to one side and treat each other as equals.
  • Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    No - that is exactly how he opened cabinet this morning
    He then asked "How many new buses?" and none of them knew the answer!
    Yes

    He had to prompt 4,000.

    It is either amusing, childish, or Boris being Boris, depending on your politics


  • The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    So you don’t think the UK is smaller than the EU?
    I don't think small and nimble is worse than large and sclerotic.
    +1
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 25,316
    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    Blimey - this is real???
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,026



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    Now that the government has adopted the North Korean model as its preferred approach to Brexit, I guess we'll all just have to get used to juche and stirring pictures of Boris Johnson riding a horse up a mountain.
    North Korean? You are hardly likely to be taken into Downing Street and executed with an anti-aircraft gun.

    Probably.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,109
    eek said:

    Last time I came out of that very airport we queued for about 30 minutes as they check our passports on exit. Perfectly normal. Ps. For all intents and purposes we are still in the EU during the transition.
    That's still the standard EU exit - I don't see any problem beyond he's picked the wrong time to try to escape the airport and the fact he's cropped the EU flag to pretend to raise a point.
    There's also only a handful of people in front of him. He should try visiting the states once in a while. ;)
  • Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    Its a technique often used at corporate events and team building events too.
  • kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    Blimey - this is real???
    Apparently.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 1,328



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    Now that the government has adopted the North Korean model as its preferred approach to Brexit, I guess we'll all just have to get used to juche and stirring pictures of Boris Johnson riding a horse up a mountain.
    North Korean? You are hardly likely to be taken into Downing Street and executed with an anti-aircraft gun.

    Probably.
    Don't give him ideas.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,266

    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    Blimey - this is real???
    Enforced ritual self-abasement ?
    Probably.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816


    Now that the government has adopted the North Korean model as its preferred approach to Brexit, I guess we'll all just have to get used to juche and stirring pictures of Boris Johnson riding a horse up a mountain.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,266



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    Now that the government has adopted the North Korean model as its preferred approach to Brexit, I guess we'll all just have to get used to juche and stirring pictures of Boris Johnson riding a horse up a mountain.
    North Korean? You are hardly likely to be taken into Downing Street and executed with an anti-aircraft gun...
    Cummings is probably measuring the Downing St garden to see if there's room for one as we speak.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,470
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1228264706395267072?s=20

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    Blimey - this is real???
    Enforced ritual self-abasement ?
    Probably.
    It makes it easy to the difference between the sycophants and the adults with a mind of their own....

    :D:D
  • eekeek Posts: 7,056
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    Last time I came out of that very airport we queued for about 30 minutes as they check our passports on exit. Perfectly normal. Ps. For all intents and purposes we are still in the EU during the transition.
    That's still the standard EU exit - I don't see any problem beyond he's picked the wrong time to try to escape the airport and the fact he's cropped the EU flag to pretend to raise a point.
    There's also only a handful of people in front of him. He should try visiting the states once in a while. ;)
    Yep - I think we had 90+ minutes at JFK in October (mind you it was the first time in a while so we had to join the interrogation queue).
  • I must admit I'm surprised at the lack of a pattern in the nominations. I would expect Thornberry to be getting nominations in heavy remain seats, while Nandy does well in the red wall but you have oddities like Vauxhall nominating Nandy while Bishop Auckland nominates Thornberry
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,266

    That has to be a carefully set-up spoof, surely?
    No, it's a denial of democracy....
  • Very interesting thread and judgment.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    I went to one of those once with my parents (As a well behaved roughly 13 year old or so). My Dad smelt the ruse early on (My mum had booked it I think unwittingly) and was annoyed he was missing the rugby. Timeshare sales pitch, video of Jack Charlton saying how glorious it all was, they don't let you leave early - WACO was definitely fresh in my mind...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 1,328

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    I assume that only works on people who can be manipulated easily. I remember attending a product release and being completely embarrassed by all this stuff but noting the salesman in attendance lapping it up and joining in in enthusiastically . I knew a number of them and was surprised by their gullibility. I asked them about it afterwards. They were in fact just as cynical and thought it utter bollocks, but just join in for the fun of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 19,266

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    That is an excellent judgment.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 29,039

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    The police must have known that they'd lost after the first six paragraphs of the judgment.
  • Very interesting thread and judgment.

    Rational judgment that we need more of.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540

    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    Blimey - this is real???
    Apparently.
    Hes done it several times since the GE, he clearly likes it as a strategy
  • kjhkjh Posts: 1,328
    Nigelb said:



    The EU is not obliged to sign up to terms that Britain would find convenient.

    While a distinct minority would be prepared to eat grass rather than compromise with the EU, it remains a distinct minority.

    You are so predictable in your love of the EU and dislike of brexit but I fully expect this Boris government will exit the EU on WTO if necessary and there will be some years of angst on both sides
    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.
    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn't.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    Now that the government has adopted the North Korean model as its preferred approach to Brexit, I guess we'll all just have to get used to juche and stirring pictures of Boris Johnson riding a horse up a mountain.
    North Korean? You are hardly likely to be taken into Downing Street and executed with an anti-aircraft gun...
    Cummings is probably measuring the Downing St garden to see if there's room for one as we speak.
    There we go again Nigel, once again we do the same post, although as usual yours is with more panache.
  • That has to be a carefully set-up spoof, surely?
    I’d hope so but you can never tell with Brexiteers.

    I remember seeing Barnsley leavers shocked to learn that leaving the EU meant losing EU structural funds.
    "Now, boy, witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Tory majority!"
    (Into intercom)
    "Legislate at will, Prime Minister!"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    Complainant at the outer margins of rationality apparently. Quite common as it happens
  • From that judgment, the final line of this needs to be said more often. I emphasise in bold:

    7. However, Mr Justice Julian Knowles also finds that the police’s actions towards the Claimant disproportionately interfered with his right of freedom of expressionon the particular facts of this case([289]). The judgment emphasises the vital importance of free speech in a democracy and provides a reminder that free speech includes not only the inoffensive,but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative, and that the freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having([3]).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    Its a technique often used at corporate events and team building events too.
    Yes and its irritating as hell. You can always tell if someone has just been on a training course for team events, as they shoehorn in unnecessary team interactions, very deliberately refer to people by name and overly thank people for ideas, that sort of thing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,735
    Will we ever get an Iowa result and BF pay up?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    The police must have known that they'd lost after the first six paragraphs of the judgment.
    I'd go after the police civilly if they rocked up at my work, say if I was committing the heinous crime of retweeting Germaine Greer, JK Rowling or Sharon Davies (I assume the tweets were somewhat stronger, but still). I can't think of anything more damaging to one's reputation.
  • kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    Its a technique often used at corporate events and team building events too.
    Yes and its irritating as hell. You can always tell if someone has just been on a training course for team events, as they shoehorn in unnecessary team interactions, very deliberately refer to people by name and overly thank people for ideas, that sort of thing.
    Agreed. I've always found it uncomfortable bollocks and rather American.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    The police must have known that they'd lost after the first six paragraphs of the judgment.
    Sometimes a loss is so obvious it's a wonder it got to such a point. But usually people just accept things.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 2,470
    kle4 said:

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    twitter.com/dbanksy/status/1228280843753476096?s=21

    The police must have known that they'd lost after the first six paragraphs of the judgment.
    Sometimes a loss is so obvious it's a wonder it got to such a point. But usually people just accept things.
    Why did they go to his workplace? They could have knocked on his front door
  • Pulpstar said:

    Very interesting thread and judgment.

    The police must have known that they'd lost after the first six paragraphs of the judgment.
    I'd go after the police civilly if they rocked up at my work, say if I was committing the heinous crime of retweeting Germaine Greer, JK Rowling or Sharon Davies (I assume the tweets were somewhat stronger, but still). I can't think of anything more damaging to one's reputation.
    When the Police say they lack the resources to investigate burglaries, but have resources to go after what they have already recorded as a "non-crime" shows a real perversion.

    A "non-crime" should be of no interest to the Police, unless it involves eg rescuing someone from a dangerous situation etc
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 13,466
    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    One day they'll get sick of it and agree ahead of time to all reply "fuck you" and that will be the end of the Boris Johnson leadership.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816

    Will we ever get an Iowa result and BF pay up?

    Yes, eventually - they'll need to apportion the SDEs and thus pledged delegates before the convention.
  • kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Christ. Its embarrassing and annoying even to children, doing it to adults is a real power move
    One day they'll get sick of it and agree ahead of time to all reply "fuck you" and that will be the end of the Boris Johnson leadership.
    I doubt it will be done every time, I suspect it was for the benefit of the publicity and to mark the first meeting after the reshuffle.

    Won't happen next week will be my guess.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 30,735
    Telegraph:

    "the switch of Chancellor is just “levelling up” from Deutsche Bank to Goldman Sachs, as one City wag unkindly put it."

  • kjhkjh Posts: 1,328

    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    Its a technique often used at corporate events and team building events too.
    Yes and its irritating as hell. You can always tell if someone has just been on a training course for team events, as they shoehorn in unnecessary team interactions, very deliberately refer to people by name and overly thank people for ideas, that sort of thing.
    Agreed. I've always found it uncomfortable bollocks and rather American.
    See my post. Same description - Bollocks and yes I worked for an American company at the time.

    But what I found amusing was those joining in thought it bollocks also. I assume the people organising this stuff just don't realise they are having the piss taken out of them and instead think it is a jolly good idea by the apparent reception they get.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,098
    edited February 14

    That has to be a carefully set-up spoof, surely?
    I’d hope so but you can never tell with Brexiteers.

    I remember seeing Barnsley leavers shocked to learn that leaving the EU meant losing EU structural funds.
    It's got the Huns going.
    Be thankful that we don't live in a bandana republic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816

    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    Its a technique often used at corporate events and team building events too.
    Yes and its irritating as hell. You can always tell if someone has just been on a training course for team events, as they shoehorn in unnecessary team interactions, very deliberately refer to people by name and overly thank people for ideas, that sort of thing.
    Agreed. I've always found it uncomfortable bollocks and rather American.
    Obama was the best that I can think of with this oratory technique, but it's incredibly contrived, forced and fake most of the time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 31,308
    edited February 14
    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to build to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816
    edited February 14

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to builld to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Dams ?!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,910



    I expressed neither love of the EU nor dislike of Brexit in that post. Just cold hard fact.

    As it happens, the EU might be well-advised to make some moves towards Britain, just as you try to talk down a lunatic cavorting on a ledge. But that's far from compulsory.

    There are no cold hard facts in this process.

    I expect UK to do well in the future and outperform France and Germany
    You started by asserting that the EU has to recognsise Britain's position. It doesn'tet.
    If it does not move away from wanting to damage the UK economic interests then a complete fracture will happen damaging everyones interests
    Britain is a lot smaller than the EU. Of course the EU is going to use its heft in ways that Britain dislikes. That was an inevitable part of Britain deciding that "we" excluded "them".

    You think Britain is going to get better treatment from the USA or China than it will get from the EU? Newsflash: it won't. Volunteering to become more isolated in a world of power blocs is so so dumb. The strong do as they please, the weak suffer what they must. Britain has chosen to become an object of verbs rather than a subject.
    You have your views and it is fair to say other views are available
    So you don’t think the UK is smaller than the EU?
    I don't think small and nimble is worse than large and sclerotic.
    Jim Hacker, MP PC: "We are going to be small and nimble, Sir Humphrey"

    Sir Humphrey Appleby, Perm Sec DAA: "Excellent, Minister. I am fully charged of your need to be nimble! I will start on the preparation for the airport right away! I will set up the independent judge-led enquiry on the green paper resulting from a Royal Commission leading to an in-depth analysis and risk assessment prior to the publication of a white paper soliciting opinions from interested parties, after the investigation of the temporary injunction imposing a judicial review. To report in 2050. Possibly. In the fullness of time, Minister"

    Hacker: "We are totally fucked, aren't we?"

    Sir Humphrey "Yes, Minister"

    (Roll credits)
  • See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to builld to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Being proposed by someone who says it would be "disastrous" to do as it will turn the sea into a lake.
  • Pulpstar said:

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to builld to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Dams ?!
    Yes - dams
  • Pulpstar said:

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to builld to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Dams ?!
    Yep! Dam it all . . .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 18,098

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to build to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Wouldn't that leave Ireland and the west coasts of the UK & Norway somewhat..er..exposed?
  • See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to build to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Wouldn't that leave Ireland and the west coasts of the UK & Norway somewhat..er..exposed?
    Yes. Its been proposed by a Dutch scientist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,540
    edited February 14
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Was this the actuality or is it a satirical pisstake? I can't tell anymore.

    Reminds me of a bizarre pyramid-selling 'conference' I was once tricked into attending. Getting the crowd to chant is a well-know technique: it temporarily reduces the critical faculties of the individuals, so it's a good way of making them agree to something stupid in the immediate aftermath. Dom must know this and instructed Boris accordingly.
    Its a technique often used at corporate events and team building events too.
    Yes and its irritating as hell. You can always tell if someone has just been on a training course for team events, as they shoehorn in unnecessary team interactions, very deliberately refer to people by name and overly thank people for ideas, that sort of thing.
    Agreed. I've always found it uncomfortable bollocks and rather American.
    Obama was the best that I can think of with this oratory technique, but it's incredibly contrived, forced and fake most of the time.
    It's like chainsaw juggling. Its damn impressive but you need to be very sure you can pull it off before you launch into it before a crowd.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 26,760
    Foxy said:

    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    The idea to cut pension relief for those in the 40% band was crass and stupid.

    He is no loss.

    At some point the spending Cummings is planning will have to be paid for. Tax rises will be a part of that. There is no magic money tree.

    Fat cat public sector defined benefit pensions would be a better place to start if you are dumb enough to want to tax pensions.
    It's been done with the pensions taper, with the small side effect of a staffing crisis.
    How much indexed linked pension does a public sector nominal £100,000 get? How much would a private sector pension pay for the same amount?
    About £3,800 I believe, based on my own pensions statement.

    I am at an age where I can take it (actuarily reduced) at 3 months notice, and escape these shores. Not that I plan to, as I enjoy my job at present, but nice to have that option.

    I cashed mine in , private sector about 20 months ago. I put most in a SIPP and have made 120K in that time. I did not want to lose all the money if I did not live till my 90's.
  • See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to build to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Wouldn't that leave Ireland and the west coasts of the UK & Norway somewhat..er..exposed?
    You would have thought so but this is a proposal by a Dutch Government Scientist which requires 2 dams to completely enclose the north sea
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 33,026
    Pulpstar said:

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to builld to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Dams ?!
    Frankly, my dear......
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,816

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to build to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Wouldn't that leave Ireland and the west coasts of the UK & Norway somewhat..er..exposed?
    You would have thought so but this is a proposal by a Dutch Government Scientist which requires 2 dams to completely enclose the north sea
    Lol I thought it was Boris' latest megaspend plan. Would turn the North sea into the North Lake lol.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 565
    Barnesian said:

    kamski said:

    Another poll showing Sanders as the Dem candidate polling best against Trump. This time 2 behind in Texas, which is admittedly unlikely to be the tipping point state, but there's been a bunch of recent polls showing Sanders as at least no worse than any other likely candidate.

    So why are so many people saying that Democrats would be crazy to choose Sanders instead of - who? The comparison with Corbyn is also not valid, as Corbyn pretty much always polled really really badly.

    Probably the worst outcome for Dems would be if Sanders gets a plurality of delegates but no majority, and then the convention chooses someone Sanders beat in the actual primaries. Bloomberg makes this quite a likely situation. But it always felt like his second choice (after Bloomberg becoming president) was always Trump winning again, no wonder a majority of Dems don't like the guy.

    Bloomberg is spending $millions attacking Trump. He isn't attacking any of his Democrat competitors. It feels personal against Trump.
    Bloomberg knows that attacking Trump is all he's got that appeals to Democrat voters.

    There may well be personal animosity between them, which is one of the reasons Bloomberg enjoys having Trump as president - it makes him look good in comparison to Trump, and makes him more relevant on the national stage.

    But this soap opera about which billionaire is the biggest pantomime villain is just a distraction from taking the necessary action on the biggest crises of our time (global overheating and inequality, I reckon).
  • That has to be a carefully set-up spoof, surely?
    I’d hope so but you can never tell with Brexiteers.

    I remember seeing Barnsley leavers shocked to learn that leaving the EU meant losing EU structural funds.
    It's got the Huns going.
    Be thankful that we don't live in a bandana republic.
    We kinda do live in a Bandana republic.


  • Pulpstar said:

    See Boris NI to Scotland bridge has been dwarfed with the recommendation to build dams from lands end to france and northern scotland to norway taking 100 years to build to prevent rising sea levels at a cost of 250 - 500 billion plus


    And I am not joking

    Wouldn't that leave Ireland and the west coasts of the UK & Norway somewhat..er..exposed?
    You would have thought so but this is a proposal by a Dutch Government Scientist which requires 2 dams to completely enclose the north sea
    Lol I thought it was Boris' latest megaspend plan. Would turn the North sea into the North Lake lol.
    Would make a bridge to France an easier prospect one would think . . .
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