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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954

    rcs1000 said:

    speedy2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    If you're polling sub 10% in the national polls (as Klobuchar certainly is, and Buttigieg is quite close), then you're not going to get many delegates, if any. Then you have zero influence. You're an expired parrot.

    If you turn up to Bloomberg or Sanders now, offering your support, then you can pretty much name your cabinet position.

    We are getting deep into the primaries now, in just 26 days it will be mostly all over.

    There is no incentive for anyone who survived till now, to simply drop out now when the finish line is so close.
    There is a massive incentive: a cabinet level position vs obscurity.
    But they are then betting on Bloomberg or Sanders. Hmmm...

    Keep going and hope for contested. Your leverage is surely way more at the convention.
    Unless you are going to have 50 or 100 delegates, then how much leverage do you have?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,261
    edited February 2020

    @TheScreamingEagles

    Mary Lou is actually decent.

    More of a Michelle O'Neill man myself :)
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    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html
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    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    speedy2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    If you're polling sub 10% in the national polls (as Klobuchar certainly is, and Buttigieg is quite close), then you're not going to get many delegates, if any. Then you have zero influence. You're an expired parrot.

    If you turn up to Bloomberg or Sanders now, offering your support, then you can pretty much name your cabinet position.

    We are getting deep into the primaries now, in just 26 days it will be mostly all over.

    There is no incentive for anyone who survived till now, to simply drop out now when the finish line is so close.
    There is a massive incentive: a cabinet level position vs obscurity.
    But they are then betting on Bloomberg or Sanders. Hmmm...

    Keep going and hope for contested. Your leverage is surely way more at the convention.
    Unless you are going to have 50 or 100 delegates, then how much leverage do you have?
    You saying Pete wont have 50? :wink:
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    Clearly doesn't understand socialism...

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1230548057294393346

    Remind us how much university tuition fees were when Mandelson was at university.
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    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    As a PB Leaver, I am officially happy to declare that Priti Patel should not be given an automatic peerage upon leaving office, until all bullying allegations have been fully investigated.

    Noted. I will pause however while you gather together an appropriate slew of insults against her of the type that were deployed against Bercow when those allegations emerged.
    Patel, though much derided for many past statements and beliefs, has far fewer rememberable instances of or a public persona focused on belittling people (deservedly or otherwise) which make it easy to believe accusations. That said I can easily believe she is a bully, but for general purposes there is less to go on for a casual observer than with Bercow (though she has other flaws which he does not have as compensation). I hope any bully gets suitable comeuppance and that if she is one that will be her fate, but lacking the lead in time of the Bercow stuff (in addition to the political angle against him and for her) it is not going to be an identical reaction and without a smoking gun will probably take more time to have any effect. After all, there was no effect on Bercow while in office, and its not certain there will be now.
    Perhaps unfairly, she reminds me of Ségolène Royal, who also had a reputation as a bit of a bully when she was the Environment Minister in France.
    I suspect that Patel is the sort of minister that struggles to convince her officials through argument or evidence and is forced back to relying on pulling rank, which won’t endear her to them and can easily turn toward bullying.
    I suspect that Patel is the sort of minister that struggles with a smarmy Sir Humphrey type who says "We don't do things that way here, Minister...."

    "YA FOOKIN' DO NOW...."

    *Exit Sir Humphrey stage left, with an attack of the vapours....*
    Priti Patel is Tory-Not-So-Secret-Weapon No.1: the anti-Abbott, if you will.

    I can't wait to find out what limp biscuit the new Labour leadership puts up to shadow her next :smiley:
    Yvette.
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    Have we mentioned Sanders is at 30 on the latest NV poll

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/nevada/
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    rcs1000 said:

    Some stats:

    Amy Klobchar appears to have no field offices in Nevada.
    Biden has five.
    Sanders has ten.
    Warren has eight.
    Buttigieg has eleven.

    Make of that what you will.

    KLOBUCHAR seems to have two, but she only just opened them:
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/02/12/amy-klobuchar-ramps-up-nevada-operation-hopes-to-catch-rivals/
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,655
    Completely off-topic but an interesting story about a potentially positive product of AI:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/20/antibiotic-that-kills-drug-resistant-bacteria-discovered-through-ai
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    Even if this chap spoke slowly I doubt I could understand the point. But I think he's saying Lansman is no longer one of us.

    https://twitter.com/Cornish_Damo/status/1230571185487908865
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,655

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    As a PB Leaver, I am officially happy to declare that Priti Patel should not be given an automatic peerage upon leaving office, until all bullying allegations have been fully investigated.

    Noted. I will pause however while you gather together an appropriate slew of insults against her of the type that were deployed against Bercow when those allegations emerged.
    Patel, though much derided for many past statements and beliefs, has far fewer rememberable instances of or a public persona focused on belittling people (deservedly or otherwise) which make it easy to believe accusations. That said I can easily believe she is a bully, but for general purposes there is less to go on for a casual observer than with Bercow (though she has other flaws which he does not have as compensation). I hope any bully gets suitable comeuppance and that if she is one that will be her fate, but lacking the lead in time of the Bercow stuff (in addition to the political angle against him and for her) it is not going to be an identical reaction and without a smoking gun will probably take more time to have any effect. After all, there was no effect on Bercow while in office, and its not certain there will be now.
    Perhaps unfairly, she reminds me of Ségolène Royal, who also had a reputation as a bit of a bully when she was the Environment Minister in France.
    I suspect that Patel is the sort of minister that struggles to convince her officials through argument or evidence and is forced back to relying on pulling rank, which won’t endear her to them and can easily turn toward bullying.
    I suspect that Patel is the sort of minister that struggles with a smarmy Sir Humphrey type who says "We don't do things that way here, Minister...."

    "YA FOOKIN' DO NOW...."

    *Exit Sir Humphrey stage left, with an attack of the vapours....*
    Priti Patel is Tory-Not-So-Secret-Weapon No.1: the anti-Abbott, if you will.

    I can't wait to find out what limp biscuit the new Labour leadership puts up to shadow her next :smiley:
    Yvette.
    That would be quite an interesting contest.
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    Just in case you thought modern life was difficult.

    https://twitter.com/RealTimeWWII/status/1230614374437523461
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited February 2020

    Just in case you thought modern life was difficult.

    https://twitter.com/RealTimeWWII/status/1230614374433461

    Why the fuck would you post that?
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    Every day seems to be another day closer to Trump's next term, as Dem idiots move towards Sanders.

    :angry:
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited February 2020
    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?
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    Every day seems to be another day closer to Trump's next term, as Dem idiots move towards Sanders.

    :angry:

    You got that right.
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    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    Richard III?
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,149

    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    Could you please give us a source?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100

    rcs1000 said:

    Some stats:

    Amy Klobchar appears to have no field offices in Nevada.
    Biden has five.
    Sanders has ten.
    Warren has eight.
    Buttigieg has eleven.

    Make of that what you will.

    KLOBUCHAR seems to have two, but she only just opened them:
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/02/12/amy-klobuchar-ramps-up-nevada-operation-hopes-to-catch-rivals/
    How many staplers are they each equipped with though?

    #RegimeOfFlyingStaplerTerror
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768

    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    Don't know, but I think they'll find out who Jack the Ripper was one day :|
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    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    At least they got him, Sweden doesn't seem like the kind of place where they would murder politicians.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Even if this chap spoke slowly I doubt I could understand the point. But I think he's saying Lansman is no longer one of us.

    https://twitter.com/Cornish_Damo/status/1230571185487908865

    yes, everybody know Jon Lansman is realy just another Tory scum!!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:

    From another PB.

    If Bill Clinton was able to run for President again, he'd have been the second youngest man in the Democratic debate last night.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1230603615297036299
    The American Civil War wasn't that long ago though. I mean, this guy remembers it, and he was interviewed on TV!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RPoymt3Jx4
    It ended 155 years ago.
    9 years after the Crimean War ended, and 50 years after Napoleon's final defeat at Waterloo.
    Actually five and a half years before Napoleon’s final defeat at Sedan.

    Oh sorry, not that Napoleon?
    Beware cheap imitations....
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    ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:

    From another PB.

    If Bill Clinton was able to run for President again, he'd have been the second youngest man in the Democratic debate last night.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1230603615297036299
    The American Civil War wasn't that long ago though. I mean, this guy remembers it, and he was interviewed on TV!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RPoymt3Jx4
    It ended 155 years ago.
    9 years after the Crimean War ended, and 50 years after Napoleon's final defeat at Waterloo.
    Actually five and a half years before Napoleon’s final defeat at Sedan.

    Oh sorry, not that Napoleon?
    Beware cheap imitations....
    Winston fags front and centre in that clip, whilst the host chuffs away.
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    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    At least they got him, Sweden doesn't seem like the kind of place where they would murder politicians.
    It is. Anna Lindh was killed too.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,551

    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    Who did it?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    edited February 2020
    Eh, things are going fine
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1230635983261044736
    (I know, it's only a local by-election, all in good fun)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954

    Have we mentioned Sanders is at 30 on the latest NV poll

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/nevada/

    That's a good result for him... but it's also a good Buttigieg result. This could be the third primary in a row where the top two, in terms of raw vote numbers, are Sanders-Buttigieg.

    The interesting question is what happens with second preferences, given the hybrid caucus / early voting system.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Every day seems to be another day closer to Trump's next term, as Dem idiots move towards Sanders.

    :angry:

    It was like a circular firing squad. Another comment I liked was that Bloomberg took a wallet to a knife fight.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

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    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    There is no good reason for civil disobedience in a democracy.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    edited February 2020

    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    At least they got him, Sweden doesn't seem like the kind of place where they would murder politicians.
    It is. Anna Lindh was killed too.
    When Anna Lindh was murdered, I was dating a Swedish girl and Lindh was her idol. She used to go round Swedish music festivals campaigning for them to join the Euro, and one of the presents she gave me was a ‘Ja Til Euron’ t-shirt!

    Must have been August 2003
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Go and help ER dig up some lawn. I mean, what did grass ever do to sequester CO2........
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2020
    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts.
    Well I hope they don't complain about getting arrested then if that is indeed the plan.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
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    Swedish police announce that they have solved the 1986 murder of prime minister Olof Palme (Social Democrat) in Stockholm.

    34 years! What is the record for solving old criminal mysteries?

    At least they got him, Sweden doesn't seem like the kind of place where they would murder politicians.
    It is. Anna Lindh was killed too.
    They mustn't be keen on social democrats.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    kle4 said:

    Eh, things are going fine
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1230635983261044736
    (I know, it's only a local by-election, all in good fun)

    Keith Stormer has got his work cut out.
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    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,772

    Ok lads, my antennae are way off on this one; is it some meta satirical take on Britishness/Englishness, or is it just wank?

    https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1230243160112148480?s=20

    Union Jack has been a Marvel character since the 1970s.

    (Well in three different guises.)
    Can’t wait to see the French and German equivalents!
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts.
    Well I hope they don't complain about getting arrested then if that is indeed the plan.
    Well obviously you make it as awkward as possible, to help the protest, but being arrested was exactly what ER wanted.

    "“I am here today to be arrested,” Monbiot told crowds under the autumnal sun. “In case the police were of any doubt of that, I’ve even brought a little sign saying ‘I’m assembling with Extinction Rebellion in breach of Section 14’”, referring to the police order that outlawed the group’s ‘Autumn uprising’, which disrupted the city centre for eight days."

    From

    https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/10/16/1600-arrests-extinction-rebellion-fights-right-protest-uk/
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,171

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    I think that whenever you try to do something you will make mistakes. I think it is a mistake, in this instance, for you to reduce a large political movement to the merits or otherwise of one action of that movement by a small number of its adherents - but I'll try not to judge you for making that mistake.
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    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172



    I think that whenever you try to do something you will make mistakes. I think it is a mistake, in this instance, for you to reduce a large political movement to the merits or otherwise of one action of that movement by a small number of its adherents - but I'll try not to judge you for making that mistake.

    ER blocked several roads in Cambridge. A friend of mine's seven-year old daughter was prevented from getting to her primary school on bike by them. She was not allowed to use the road.

    ER then dug up a wild flower lawn.

    ER are not making isolated single mistakes. They are making a catalogue of grievous, unforced and systematic blunders that are annoying many people who might instinctively support them and doing the environmental cause huge and possibly irretrievable damage.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2020



    I think that whenever you try to do something you will make mistakes. I think it is a mistake, in this instance, for you to reduce a large political movement to the merits or otherwise of one action of that movement by a small number of its adherents - but I'll try not to judge you for making that mistake.

    ER blocked several roads in Cambridge. A friend of mine's seven-year old daughter was prevented from getting to her primary school on bike by them. She was not allowed to use the road.

    ER then dug up a wild flower lawn.

    ER are not making isolated single mistakes. They are making a catalogue of grievous, unforced and systematic blunders that are annoying many people who might instinctively support them and doing the environmental cause huge and possibly irretrievable damage.
    And further the attempt by ER to disrupt and hijack the democratically elected Cambridge Council and argue that it should be replaced by a Citizens Assembly is fundamentally despotic.

    Cambridge doesn't need citizens' assemblies. It has an elected (Labour) City Council, an elected (Tory) County Council and there is a directly elected mayor (Tory) for the region and a directly elected Labour MP.

    Here is a snippet from the local press: "Where we live we are facing chaos and gridlock from the XR blockade. My husband is disabled and has no option but to use a car or taxi if he needs to go out."
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149
    edited February 2020
    Gabs3 said:


    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.

    Yes, if you're doing illegal property damage it seems better just to go straight for the fossil fuel companies and their customers' infrastructure. Every pound of criminal damage increases someone's insurance premiums and raises the cost of using fossil fuels. And they'd probably find it more fun, as much of the relevant infrastructure will explode if ignited.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831



    I think that whenever you try to do something you will make mistakes. I think it is a mistake, in this instance, for you to reduce a large political movement to the merits or otherwise of one action of that movement by a small number of its adherents - but I'll try not to judge you for making that mistake.

    ER blocked several roads in Cambridge. A friend of mine's seven-year old daughter was prevented from getting to her primary school on bike by them. She was not allowed to use the road.

    ER then dug up a wild flower lawn.

    ER are not making isolated single mistakes. They are making a catalogue of grievous, unforced and systematic blunders that are annoying many people who might instinctively support them and doing the environmental cause huge and possibly irretrievable damage.
    And further the attempt by ER to disrupt and hijack the democratically elected Cambridge Council and argue that it should be replaced by a Citizens Assembly is fundamentally despotic.

    Cambridge doesn't need citizens' assemblies. It has an elected (Labour) City Council, an elected (Tory) County Council and there is a directly elected mayor (Tory) for the region and a directly elected Labour MP.

    Here is a snippet from the local press: "Where we live we are facing chaos and gridlock from the XR blockade. My husband is disabled and has no option but to use a car or taxi if he needs to go out."
    Here in Oxford we don't need ER causing disruption. The councils are doing it for them. Blocking roads. Cutting off access to vital services. Putting in as many anti car measures they can think of. Whilst also.cutting local bus services and removing key drop off points for taxis.

    No joined up thinking at all. Just knee jerk gesture politics.
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Gabs3 said:


    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.

    Yes, if you're doing illegal property damage it seems better just to go straight for the fossil fuel companies and their customers' infrastructure. Every pound of criminal damage increases someone's insurance premiums and raises the cost of using fossil fuels. And they'd probably find it more fun, as much of the relevant infrastructure will explode if ignited.
    Speaking of insurance, that's actually now looking like one of the more immediate ways to hurt the fossil fuel industries. The number of providers who won't insure coal mines etc is rising steadily, and there aren't too many firms in the market for that kind of thing to begin with.

    If they can't insure large new complex projects like mines or factories, then they don't happen.
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    kle4 said:

    Eh, things are going fine
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1230635983261044736
    (I know, it's only a local by-election, all in good fun)

    Labour still won the argument, you see :)
  • Options
    Endillion said:

    Gabs3 said:


    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.

    Yes, if you're doing illegal property damage it seems better just to go straight for the fossil fuel companies and their customers' infrastructure. Every pound of criminal damage increases someone's insurance premiums and raises the cost of using fossil fuels. And they'd probably find it more fun, as much of the relevant infrastructure will explode if ignited.
    Speaking of insurance, that's actually now looking like one of the more immediate ways to hurt the fossil fuel industries. The number of providers who won't insure coal mines etc is rising steadily, and there aren't too many firms in the market for that kind of thing to begin with.

    If they can't insure large new complex projects like mines or factories, then they don't happen.
    These people need some kind of anarchist disorganization of direct action economists
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    I don't think that's particularly clever. But, I do think he can raise $13m in two weeks. He has the third largest donor list, behind Warren and Sanders, and can almost certainly tap them up for more.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    Gabs3 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.
    Well, technically disinvestment raises the cost of capital for these firms. As they're all capital intensive, it does have an impact.

    However, you are absolutely correct that taxation and/or lower demand are much bigger ways to lower fossil fuel use.
  • Options
    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.
    Well, technically disinvestment raises the cost of capital for these firms. As they're all capital intensive, it does have an impact.

    However, you are absolutely correct that taxation and/or lower demand are much bigger ways to lower fossil fuel use.
    I suspect the market is liquid enough that any increase in capital cost is invisibly small.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.
    Well, technically disinvestment raises the cost of capital for these firms. As they're all capital intensive, it does have an impact.

    However, you are absolutely correct that taxation and/or lower demand are much bigger ways to lower fossil fuel use.
    I suspect the market is liquid enough that any increase in capital cost is invisibly small.
    The oil market is more liquid than the coal market. Depending on the temperature and pressure, naturally.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Endillion said:

    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.
    Well, technically disinvestment raises the cost of capital for these firms. As they're all capital intensive, it does have an impact.

    However, you are absolutely correct that taxation and/or lower demand are much bigger ways to lower fossil fuel use.
    I suspect the market is liquid enough that any increase in capital cost is invisibly small.
    The oil market is more liquid than the coal market. Depending on the temperature and pressure, naturally.
    I think this is your coat?

    :D
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    Endillion said:

    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Priti Patel's fury at official blocking police from eco mob crackdown as Home Secretary says staff are dragging their feet on tougher action just days after officers let Extinction Rebellion tear up Cambridge lawn

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8026547/Priti-Patels-fury-official-blocking-police-eco-mob-crackdown.html

    Remember the last time plod cracked down on ER?

    It nearly didn't end as planned...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/06/extinction-rebellion-protesters-set-million-pound-pay-plot-general/

    Of course, the whole plan of civil disobedience is to get arrested, and clog up police and courts. Indeed I am rather inclined to have some fun at COP26 myself this autumn.

    Digging up the lawn was an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

    The lawn was a wild flower lawn. The wild flowers bloom in the spring and summer and cause delight, as well as providing a haven for insects.

    Typical of a smirking LibDem to approve such a crass, utterly pointless and nihilistic action.
    No, I think it was a daft thing for ER to do. There are far better things to protest at, the right to protest being fundamental in a democracy, whether suffragettes or civil rights marchers.
    Daft is the wrong adjective. it suggests a kind of silly harmlessness.

    The lawn was not a typical manicured Cambridge college grass lawn.

    It was purposefully kept like a meadow & sown with spring and summer wild flowers.
    It will be interesting to see how many Cambridge colleges decide to disinvest in fossil fuels.

    Disinvestment just hands the return to less scrupulous investors. The only things that genuinely hurts fossil fuel companies in a major way is to tax them more and buy less of their products.
    Well, technically disinvestment raises the cost of capital for these firms. As they're all capital intensive, it does have an impact.

    However, you are absolutely correct that taxation and/or lower demand are much bigger ways to lower fossil fuel use.
    I suspect the market is liquid enough that any increase in capital cost is invisibly small.
    The oil market is more liquid than the coal market. Depending on the temperature and pressure, naturally.
    Boom boom.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    Gabs3 said:

    I suspect the market is liquid enough that any increase in capital cost is invisibly small.

    It depends. If half the world's investment funds refused to invest in oil & gas (and I just made that proportion up), then you would expect that the cost of capital would move a meaningful amount.

    Looking at Finbox, it says the Weighted Average Cost of Capital for Shell is 8%. If half the world's investors refused to own Shell, then it would probably rise to 8.25-8.5%. That's not a massive amount, but it would be noticeable to them.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Klopp, the nicest guy in football, finds another gear of niceness:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51580401
This discussion has been closed.