As to your league table, I suspect the names will ascend and descend as the weeks progress. Raab, Jenrick and Sharma are only having poor campaigns because due to BoJo's succumbing to the virus, they are taking Boris' spanking for him.
Johnson's power and authority over the cabinet must be ebbing away as he remains locked in that cupboard trying to find fappage on his iPad without paying for RedTube Premium.
That’s comparing the average of one disease with the record high of the other, doesn’t sit right with me.
I suppose it depends how long the world remains at the current level of death. The charts on Worldometer are not encouraging. There is no deviation in the upward direction of the totals to date. I fear many, many countries are either failing to record these deaths or still at an early stage in infections.
And if the likes of India, South Africa or Venezuela get severely infected, with their inept governments, weak social control, poor housing and limited health service...it will get very very nasty very very fast.
This seems inevitable. This is going to be a massive killer in the third world until we get a vaccine (and even then). Even the hope that their younger populations would be less vulnerable has taken several dunts in recent days.
Enabling potentially infected self isolating NHS staff back to work if they’re not infected.
But are they not staying at home because they have a fever etc ?
As we saw with Dr Fox of this parish he had some symptoms, but not COVID-19 - I’m sure a prompt test would have helped put his mind at rest a lot sooner.
So the benefits are peace of mind ?
The benefits are that @Foxy can get back to work as a doctor. That's the point. The NHS and other industries are below par because so many staff are needlessly self-isolating in the absence of tests that might give them the all-clear to return to work.
I do not think that the attacks on HMG re testing are unfair as there clearly is a problem that must be addressed and to be honest I do not know the true story behind the shortage of testing to date
However, this crisis requires constructive and effective criticism not a pack of unhappy ill informed journalists and media presenters as we are seeing at present attempting to undermine public trust in a government facing the worst crisis since the last war
It is not edifying and I am not sure it is even shared by the public
You must surely see that Government over-promising - including by your hero himself - have played directly into this story.
He sees but thinks its unhelpful to say. I think it's more likely to get resolved the more people that see and shout angrily at HM Government
For sure - despite all the complaining about the media, you can bet that as a result of the coverage there are urgent meetings of politicians and civil servants today with testing and PPE at the top of the agenda.
They need to get rid of all the armchair idiots from the Lobby, and replace them with medical and science journalists who can hold a sensible conversation with those on the front line.
Flatten the Curve of Armchair Epidemiology
Unfortunately, all of the above are signs of DKE-19, a highly contagious illness threatening the response against COVID-19. We must act today to flatten the curve of armchair epidemiology, or we will all be in peril.
Things you can do to flatten the curve Wash your phone for at least 20 seconds fully immersed in soapy water 6 ft of social media distancing If take appears hot/feverish, seek expert help Check the qualifications of authors BEFORE sharing Listen to people who know what they are talking about Push for better social media infrastructure that can slow the spread of DKE-19 and future strains
Does anyone know why I can't log in on Chrome on my laptop (Windows 10)? I log in but it just doesn't seem to save it. I can do it on Edge or my Android mobile on Chrome.
No idea but that is why I switched to Firefox for pb.
It's something to do with "Third-Party Cookies", which means it doesn't like you logging into one site (Vanillacommunity.com) from the page of another site (Politicalbetting.com).
The way around it, is to log in first from the Vanilla site http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/ then refresh the page to check the login worked, then go to the main site once logged in.
Enabling potentially infected self isolating NHS staff back to work if they’re not infected.
But are they not staying at home because they have a fever etc ?
As we saw with Dr Fox of this parish he had some symptoms, but not COVID-19 - I’m sure a prompt test would have helped put his mind at rest a lot sooner.
So the benefits are peace of mind ?
The benefits are that @Foxy can get back to work as a doctor. That's the point. The NHS and other industries are below par because so many staff are needlessly self-isolating in the absence of tests that might give them the all-clear to return to work.
I do not think that the attacks on HMG re testing are unfair as there clearly is a problem that must be addressed and to be honest I do not know the true story behind the shortage of testing to date
However, this crisis requires constructive and effective criticism not a pack of unhappy ill informed journalists and media presenters as we are seeing at present attempting to undermine public trust in a government facing the worst crisis since the last war
It is not edifying and I am not sure it is even shared by the public
You must surely see that Government over-promising - including by your hero himself - have played directly into this story.
Yes. Underpromise and overdeliver. Not the other way round.
I suspect Ministers need to get stuck in more to the "nitty gritty" of what's going on rather than simply taking expert advice as gospel.
Does anyone know why I can't log in on Chrome on my laptop (Windows 10)? I log in but it just doesn't seem to save it. I can do it on Edge or my Android mobile on Chrome.
There may well be a chromovirus
To be serious - there are occasional problems logging on depending on phone or laptop as well as with different browsers not to mention problems with the vanilla version of the site or the PB one. Best to find the one which works best and stick to it.
He doesn't seem to grasp the lag caused by the incubation and infection periods.
If it is: - An average of 5-7 days between infection and showing symptoms (if you are going to show symptoms) - An average of 16-20 days between showing symptoms and death (if you are going to die) (of course, some will be far quicker and some far slower)
... then those poor souls dying on Tuesday (and recorded yesterday) were mostly infected between 6th March and 9th March.
So how in the world could a lockdown established on the 23rd of March have affected the death rate?
Does anyone know why I can't log in on Chrome on my laptop (Windows 10)? I log in but it just doesn't seem to save it. I can do it on Edge or my Android mobile on Chrome.
No idea but that is why I switched to Firefox for pb.
It's something to do with "Third-Party Cookies", which means it doesn't like you logging into one site (Vanillacommunity.com) from the page of another site (Politicalbetting.com).
The way around it, is to log in first from the Vanilla site http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/ then refresh the page to check the login worked, then go to the main site once logged in.
Doesn’t even work then on mine. Not that it matters, as except when reading thread headers I post through Vanilla anyway.
Enabling potentially infected self isolating NHS staff back to work if they’re not infected.
But are they not staying at home because they have a fever etc ?
As we saw with Dr Fox of this parish he had some symptoms, but not COVID-19 - I’m sure a prompt test would have helped put his mind at rest a lot sooner.
So the benefits are peace of mind ?
The benefits are that @Foxy can get back to work as a doctor. That's the point. The NHS and other industries are below par because so many staff are needlessly self-isolating in the absence of tests that might give them the all-clear to return to work.
I do not think that the attacks on HMG re testing are unfair as there clearly is a problem that must be addressed and to be honest I do not know the true story behind the shortage of testing to date
However, this crisis requires constructive and effective criticism not a pack of unhappy ill informed journalists and media presenters as we are seeing at present attempting to undermine public trust in a government facing the worst crisis since the last war
It is not edifying and I am not sure it is even shared by the public
You must surely see that Government over-promising - including by your hero himself - have played directly into this story.
He sees but thinks its unhelpful to say. I think it's more likely to get resolved the more people that see and shout angrily at HM Government
For sure - despite all the complaining about the media, you can bet that as a result of the coverage there are urgent meetings of politicians and civil servants today with testing and PPE at the top of the agenda.
So you think without the coverage, there would be a sub-committee tasked with delivering a report sometime in the next 3 months? Sheesh.....
The UK is aiming to carry out 100,000 tests for coronavirus a day in "a small number of weeks," according to Prof Paul Cosford, emeritus medical director of Public Health England.
Prof Cosford told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “Everybody involved is frustrated that we haven’t yet got to the position that we need to get to (on testing)."
Asked why other testing facilities in the country were not being used, Prof Cosford said Public Health England was looking at how it could use all the country's laboratories "to boost up at least 100,000 tests a day, hopefully more”.
He added that he would expect this work to be in place “over the coming days and a small number of weeks”.
He doesn't seem to grasp the lag caused by the incubation and infection periods.
If it is: - An average of 5-7 days between infection and showing symptoms (if you are going to show symptoms) - An average of 16-20 days between showing symptoms and death (if you are going to die) (of course, some will be far quicker and some far slower)
... then those poor souls dying on Tuesday (and recorded yesterday) were mostly infected between 6th March and 9th March.
So how in the world could a lockdown established on the 23rd of March have affected the death rate?
What do the media think they're trying to achieve here?
Watcher from afar, all they look like achieving is sowing distrust among the populace that the advice to stay at home is the correct advice.
Quite - and after the pile in on the Police on here yesterday after the awful thread header it's not good. Fortunately the vast majority of people lack the unpleasantness of the media hacks and are more concerned that the measures do their job.
I'm continually astounded when people think a measured argument police should know the law is awful, or take gripes against against aspects of the police service as piling on the entire profession. Its reactions like that which lead to being unable to tackle problems in institutions, as any critique is unfair or mean.
Its perfectly possible to think the majority do a great job but there are some major problems that dont need to be ignored even now. We wouldnt ignore government lying just because we are in a crisis, nor incompetence, and we shouldnt ignore police missteps relating to exceeding authority in a crisis. Slack is cut to everyone right now, but not for everything.
Reading through the thread on here last night clearly proved a different experience for the two of us. I will leave it at that.
Beautiful morning folks. Having promised myself I'd have the body of a god by the end of this lock down, I've done zero workouts. Hopefully the god in question won't be Buddha.
Especially not when he achieved bodhi...
if that's a pun it's gone way over my head.
‘Bodhi’ is the technical term for enlightenment. This was achieved by the Buddha (which means ‘the Enlightened One’) after he had starved himself for many days.
I wasn’t actually trying to make a pun, but it does work as one.
He doesn't seem to grasp the lag caused by the incubation and infection periods.
If it is: - An average of 5-7 days between infection and showing symptoms (if you are going to show symptoms) - An average of 16-20 days between showing symptoms and death (if you are going to die) (of course, some will be far quicker and some far slower)
... then those poor souls dying on Tuesday (and recorded yesterday) were mostly infected between 6th March and 9th March.
So how in the world could a lockdown established on the 23rd of March have affected the death rate?
Peston has an agenda - it goes back a long way.
Does it ever get off Any Other Business?
He has a special talent for making minutes feel like hours...
He doesn't seem to grasp the lag caused by the incubation and infection periods.
If it is: - An average of 5-7 days between infection and showing symptoms (if you are going to show symptoms) - An average of 16-20 days between showing symptoms and death (if you are going to die) (of course, some will be far quicker and some far slower)
... then those poor souls dying on Tuesday (and recorded yesterday) were mostly infected between 6th March and 9th March.
So how in the world could a lockdown established on the 23rd of March have affected the death rate?
He probably understands it reasonably well, but essentially gets higher status and pay the more dramatically he can (misre)present it.
He is missing the point that to get a lower peak, you need a later peak.
That’s comparing the average of one disease with the record high of the other, doesn’t sit right with me.
That's a fair point. Equally, there comes a point of a fast-growing contagion where the comparison can be made (and note, these are only the presently-confirmed cases, which are almost certainly greatly understated). If there were an extra zero on the Covid-19 daily number, few would quibble. Looking at that trajectory, we may be at that point soon enough.
March 15th was the first day with global deaths greater than 500. It's possible that global deaths will be greater than 5,000 today, though it might be tomorrow. So that's 18 or 19 days.
There are hints that the global rate of growth of deaths is moderating, as the lockdowns take effect in Italy and Spain, but we're yet to see whether growth in the US/elsewhere will see a further acceleration.
Pessimistic extrapolation: 50,000 deaths on April 20th.
A BA plus time. All Cantab and Oxon BAs are automatically made up to MA after a few years
Not quite "all". Unclassified degrees aren't and Oxford Chemists have/had to complete a fourth year "Part II" research project before they could get an MA.
He doesn't seem to grasp the lag caused by the incubation and infection periods.
If it is: - An average of 5-7 days between infection and showing symptoms (if you are going to show symptoms) - An average of 16-20 days between showing symptoms and death (if you are going to die) (of course, some will be far quicker and some far slower)
... then those poor souls dying on Tuesday (and recorded yesterday) were mostly infected between 6th March and 9th March.
So how in the world could a lockdown established on the 23rd of March have affected the death rate?
Peston has an agenda - it goes back a long way.
Everyone has an Agenda. Mine is staying alive.
Peston is a plonker but at least he has played a part in raising THE most important issue up the Governments to do list.
Other peoples Agenda on here is to save Gove rather than lives or to call those raising valid criticisms names.
They need to get rid of all the armchair idiots from the Lobby, and replace them with medical and science journalists who can hold a sensible conversation with those on the front line.
Flatten the Curve of Armchair Epidemiology
Unfortunately, all of the above are signs of DKE-19, a highly contagious illness threatening the response against COVID-19. We must act today to flatten the curve of armchair epidemiology, or we will all be in peril.
Things you can do to flatten the curve Wash your phone for at least 20 seconds fully immersed in soapy water 6 ft of social media distancing If take appears hot/feverish, seek expert help Check the qualifications of authors BEFORE sharing Listen to people who know what they are talking about Push for better social media infrastructure that can slow the spread of DKE-19 and future strains
Not that anybody will necessarily care, but I have been approached about assisting with the response to this crisis, so I may be gone some time.
The nation's gain will be PB's (hopefully temporary!) loss.
I wouldn't go that far, will only be a very very very minor part of a much bigger machine and not exactly like Dr Foxy putting my life in danger, but way described will be all hands to the pump stuff for the foreseeable future.
The UK is aiming to carry out 100,000 tests for coronavirus a day in "a small number of weeks," according to Prof Paul Cosford, emeritus medical director of Public Health England.
Prof Cosford told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “Everybody involved is frustrated that we haven’t yet got to the position that we need to get to (on testing)."
Asked why other testing facilities in the country were not being used, Prof Cosford said Public Health England was looking at how it could use all the country's laboratories "to boost up at least 100,000 tests a day, hopefully more”.
He added that he would expect this work to be in place “over the coming days and a small number of weeks”.
Big openness is required, what exactly the limitations are, what exactly we are doing about each. This is war production with the key difference that the enemy is not spying on us (although our rival nations may be), so some openness is possible.
The calls and inquiries to the victim care service of #Gender Violence 016 have increased during the confinement of the #Covid19 crisis. ☎️ Calls 016: They have increased by 19 % 📧 Online inquiries 016: increased by 286,3 %. 📲 There is a new psychological care service via whatsapp to 016.
Yes it does seem that the journalists are getting themselves into a bit of a lather doesn't it?
I think with Boris, Whitty, Hancock and Cummings all (largely) off the scene through catching COVID-19 themselves the governments messaging and policy management has fallen apart. Journalists are probably doing what they always do which is filling in the vacuum with panic and hysteria.
Just saw a clip of Peston being taken apart by the deputy chief medical office on Twitter a few moments ago... Preston clearly has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and if he's reflective of our political lobby journalists who are driving this panic it's hard to know whether the panic and criticism of the government is justified or not.
Would it be better to replace political/lobby journalists with science/medical journalists at the governments daily press briefings I wonder?
That’s comparing the average of one disease with the record high of the other, doesn’t sit right with me.
That's a fair point. Equally, there comes a point of a fast-growing contagion where the comparison can be made (and note, these are only the presently-confirmed cases, which are almost certainly greatly understated). If there were an extra zero on the Covid-19 daily number, few would quibble. Looking at that trajectory, we may be at that point soon enough.
March 15th was the first KNOWN day with global deaths greater than 500.
The lack of PPE is scandalous given the government's own pandemic preparedness plan (which everyone on here was sharing back when they were saying how brilliant and advanced the government's handling of this was) meant that it was essential that every hospital was full stocked and beyond.
They obviously stockpiled the wrong stuff. Why, we will have to find out in due course, although the obvious suggestion would be price. Coupled with failure of the supply chain, which is still affecting the food supply as well so not just a Government problem. Just-in-time just isn't working.
Isn't the issue with a lot of the PPE that it has expiry dates, so is difficult to stockpile in advance? Maintaining a future stockpile is going to involve constant rotation of stock in and out of the storage facility.
Yes but stock rotation probably happens anyway and if not then they can ask Sainsbury's, Tesco's or even the hospital pharmacists how they manage.
Unlike testing the UK Government has not done as badly on PPE. The whole world has been shocked by the extreme rise in demand in a very short period of time. As with many other areas the UK has relied on a trading ability to find what it needs globally rather than maintain its own capability. This strategy however falls over when trading links are cut as in a pandemic.
The NHS will need to start looking out of the box at alternatives. One of my customers is setting up to produce face masks within 2 weeks. We will need to resterilise respirators like the USA as no way we can buy enough.
On case numbers per capita, Switzerland is up there with Spain, yet I haven't seem much in the media about the Swiss circumstance or response?
It's Belgium that is the most worrying - on the excellent chart provided yesterday by @Andy_Cooke they are tracking higher than Spain on per capita deaths.
More cases in Switzerland will mostly be a function of more testing.
Per Capita deaths in Switz aren't much lower than in Belgium
No, but the trajectory is lower. I'm hoping this is the right chart that Andy created.
Not that anybody will necessarily care, but I have been approached about assisting with the response to this crisis, so I may be gone some time.
The nation's gain will be PB's (hopefully temporary!) loss.
I wouldn't go that far, will only be a very very very minor part of a much bigger machine and not exactly like Dr Foxy putting my life in danger, but way described will be all hands to the pump stuff for the foreseeable future.
Enabling potentially infected self isolating NHS staff back to work if they’re not infected.
But are they not staying at home because they have a fever etc ?
As we saw with Dr Fox of this parish he had some symptoms, but not COVID-19 - I’m sure a prompt test would have helped put his mind at rest a lot sooner.
So the benefits are peace of mind ?
The benefits are that @Foxy can get back to work as a doctor. That's the point. The NHS and other industries are below par because so many staff are needlessly self-isolating in the absence of tests that might give them the all-clear to return to work.
I do not think that the attacks on HMG re testing are unfair as there clearly is a problem that must be addressed and to be honest I do not know the true story behind the shortage of testing to date
However, this crisis requires constructive and effective criticism not a pack of unhappy ill informed journalists and media presenters as we are seeing at present attempting to undermine public trust in a government facing the worst crisis since the last war
It is not edifying and I am not sure it is even shared by the public
You must surely see that Government over-promising - including by your hero himself - have played directly into this story.
He sees but thinks its unhelpful to say. I think it's more likely to get resolved the more people that see and shout angrily at HM Government
For sure - despite all the complaining about the media, you can bet that as a result of the coverage there are urgent meetings of politicians and civil servants today with testing and PPE at the top of the agenda.
BigG?
Surely you see that?
I have no problem with constructive criticism and on testing the communication has been very poor, does anyone know the real reason for the scarcity
Only if people continue stick to the rules for the whole period.
If that number were to drift back up to 1 (and pre lockdown, it’s estimated at 2.6), the lockdown would take 30 weeks to be effective, not 12. modelling suggests.
I would be staggered if R0 was anywhere near as high as 0.6 in a lockdown situation. I mean, it might be for the first week or two as you infected your housemates. But after that, who are you going to infect?
That's assuming everyone is locked down - which clearly isn't the case, since at the very least 'essential workers' are still going out, as are food shoppers, etc. Even a drift from 0.6 to 0.8 would make a large difference in the effectiveness of the lockdown.
Only if people continue stick to the rules for the whole period.
If that number were to drift back up to 1 (and pre lockdown, it’s estimated at 2.6), the lockdown would take 30 weeks to be effective, not 12. modelling suggests.
I would be staggered if R0 was anywhere near as high as 0.6 in a lockdown situation. I mean, it might be for the first week or two as you infected your housemates. But after that, who are you going to infect?
That's assuming everyone is locked down - which clearly isn't the case, since at the very least 'essential workers' are still going out, as are food shoppers, etc. Even a drift from 0.6 to 0.8 would make a large difference in the effectiveness of the lockdown.
That's a key point, and needs to be better communicated. Too many people assume that a lockdown is a lockdown is a lockdown, whereas there can be a large and significant variation in effectiveness.
That’s comparing the average of one disease with the record high of the other, doesn’t sit right with me.
That's a fair point. Equally, there comes a point of a fast-growing contagion where the comparison can be made (and note, these are only the presently-confirmed cases, which are almost certainly greatly understated). If there were an extra zero on the Covid-19 daily number, few would quibble. Looking at that trajectory, we may be at that point soon enough.
March 15th was the first KNOWN day with global deaths greater than 500.
Important correction there.
Yes, when we get the final numbers, including those who didn't die in hospital, the totals will be larger, but it's not unreasonable to use the numbers we have, though of course in comparing them to TB we're not comparing like with like, because for TB it is the total figure.
The lack of PPE is scandalous given the government's own pandemic preparedness plan (which everyone on here was sharing back when they were saying how brilliant and advanced the government's handling of this was) meant that it was essential that every hospital was full stocked and beyond.
They obviously stockpiled the wrong stuff. Why, we will have to find out in due course, although the obvious suggestion would be price. Coupled with failure of the supply chain, which is still affecting the food supply as well so not just a Government problem. Just-in-time just isn't working.
Isn't the issue with a lot of the PPE that it has expiry dates, so is difficult to stockpile in advance? Maintaining a future stockpile is going to involve constant rotation of stock in and out of the storage facility.
Yes but stock rotation probably happens anyway and if not then they can ask Sainsbury's, Tesco's or even the hospital pharmacists how they manage.
Unlike testing the UK Government has not done as badly on PPE. The whole world has been shocked by the extreme rise in demand in a very short period of time. As with many other areas the UK has relied on a trading ability to find what it needs globally rather than maintain its own capability. This strategy however falls over when trading links are cut as in a pandemic.
The NHS will need to start looking out of the box at alternatives. One of my customers is setting up to produce face masks within 2 weeks. We will need to resterilise respirators like the USA as no way we can buy enough.
what exactly do you mean by a respirator? is that the bit that goes from the ventilator to the patient?
We are now 10 years into a Tory government, only 3 governments since WW2 have lasted 10 years and only 1 government, the Tories in 1992, won a general election after more than 10 years in power.
So the Government should have expected things to get much tougher even without Covid 19 and a likely new and more centrist and media savvy Labour leader
There is no general election for 4 years, the government has a big majority, it should not worry about the press and focus on what the medical experts advise
This comment should send a shiver down any Conservative member's spine. It's the sort of remark which heralds defeat at the next election. The signature of all failing Governments.
I think that the government acted about 2 weeks too late, but apart from the lack of following the 14 day rule for Recovered cases, doing pretty much the right thing now.
There are still inadequate provision of PPE, in particular there are no long sleeved protective gowns, and there is inadequate testing. Both of these are due to supply issues rather than government intent.
You say supply issues; others say procurement issues, which mean government ineptitude at least. On testing, the United States, despite President Trump's initial fumbling, now boasts it has carried out more tests than South Korea.
Boris should employ a procurement czar, as Churchill did when he made Beaverbrook Minister of Production. It is surprising he has not already done so given Cummings's low opinion of government procurement and Boris's own biography of Churchill, which is no doubt compulsory reading for @ydoethur's history students.
The plain fact is that, despite and excellent science capability, we do not have the manufacturing base for medical laboratory equipment that exists in Germany or the US. Procurement czars would do nothing to change that any time soon.
I wonder if they (a) don't see the utility of testing for the general population at this stage of the epidemic and think that sampling, coupled with testing those hospitalised, will give them a good enough handle on the growth rate and (b) think it is inaccurate anyway, so prefer just to tell hospital staff to self-isolate. However this goes against WHO advice so they would rather fudge and take the flak, than come out and say it.
Yes, that seems pretty likely. I would guess that they are using number of hospitalizations and ICU admissions as their main way of tracking, then comparing with sentinel testing to extrapolate to number of infections. I wish they would publish these numbers routinely, in the spirit of transparency.
(FWIW I think the WHO has done rather poorly in this crisis. I no longer set much store by their recommendations.)
We are now 10 years into a Tory government, only 3 governments since WW2 have lasted more than 10 years and only 1 government, the Tories in 1992, won a general election after more than 10 years in power.
So the Government should have expected things to get much tougher even without Covid 19 and a likely new and more centrist and media savvy Labour leader
At risk of being pedantic, only two governments have lasted more than ten years since World War Two. A government in our system is identified by who leads it, not which party forms it.
That’s comparing the average of one disease with the record high of the other, doesn’t sit right with me.
That's a fair point. Equally, there comes a point of a fast-growing contagion where the comparison can be made (and note, these are only the presently-confirmed cases, which are almost certainly greatly understated). If there were an extra zero on the Covid-19 daily number, few would quibble. Looking at that trajectory, we may be at that point soon enough.
Well he should compare the record day of each disease really shouldn’t he?
Just played the part of Winston Smith doing my workout with Joe Wicks... good, unsettling idea
Boris should employ a procurement czar, as Churchill did when he made Beaverbrook Minister of Production. It is surprising he has not already done so given Cummings's low opinion of government procurement and Boris's own biography of Churchill, which is no doubt compulsory reading for @ydoethur's history students.
That would be rather pointless since the only British history we study at A-level is the Wars of the Roses.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Not that anybody will necessarily care, but I have been approached about assisting with the response to this crisis, so I may be gone some time.
The nation's gain will be PB's (hopefully temporary!) loss.
I wouldn't go that far, will only be a very very very minor part of a much bigger machine and not exactly like Dr Foxy putting my life in danger, but way described will be all hands to the pump stuff for the foreseeable future.
Good luck, your success is our success.
Tell them that covid-19 is spread through the eating of pineapples on pizzas.
There is no general election for 4 years, the government has a big majority, it should not worry about the press and focus on what the medical experts advise
This comment should send a shiver down any Conservative member's spine. It's the sort of remark which heralds defeat at the next election. The signature of all failing Governments.
I think that the government acted about 2 weeks too late, but apart from the lack of following the 14 day rule for Recovered cases, doing pretty much the right thing now.
There are still inadequate provision of PPE, in particular there are no long sleeved protective gowns, and there is inadequate testing. Both of these are due to supply issues rather than government intent.
You say supply issues; others say procurement issues, which mean government ineptitude at least. On testing, the United States, despite President Trump's initial fumbling, now boasts it has carried out more tests than South Korea.
Boris should employ a procurement czar, as Churchill did when he made Beaverbrook Minister of Production. It is surprising he has not already done so given Cummings's low opinion of government procurement and Boris's own biography of Churchill, which is no doubt compulsory reading for @ydoethur's history students.
The plain fact is that, despite and excellent science capability, we do not have the manufacturing base for medical laboratory equipment that exists in Germany or the US. Procurement czars would do nothing to change that any time soon.
However valid or not the point, it does feel like we missed a chance to tap into that German production capacity by deciding not to join the EU equipment pool.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
I wonder if they (a) don't see the utility of testing for the general population at this stage of the epidemic and think that sampling, coupled with testing those hospitalised, will give them a good enough handle on the growth rate and (b) think it is inaccurate anyway, so prefer just to tell hospital staff to self-isolate. However this goes against WHO advice so they would rather fudge and take the flak, than come out and say it.
Yes, that seems pretty likely. I would guess that they are using number of hospitalizations and ICU admissions as their main way of tracking, then comparing with sentinel testing to extrapolate to number of infections. I wish they would publish these numbers routinely, in the spirit of transparency.
(FWIW I think the WHO has done rather poorly in this crisis. I no longer set much store by their recommendations.)
--AS
I have read that Sheffield has had more testing done than most other areas. I havent seen it said that that is because it is being used as a sampling area though. to quote:
Greg Fell, director of public health in Sheffield, said: "I understand that people may find the reported number of cases in Sheffield worrying, but the data is simply a reflection that there is more testing happening here currently than in some other areas and so by default we know about more positive cases."
from BBC 2 days ago but I have seen other reports saying similar things.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
We are now 10 years into a Tory government, only 3 governments since WW2 have lasted more than 10 years and only 1 government, the Tories in 1992, won a general election after more than 10 years in power.
So the Government should have expected things to get much tougher even without Covid 19 and a likely new and more centrist and media savvy Labour leader
At risk of being pedantic, only two governments have lasted more than ten years since World War Two. A government in our system is identified by who leads it, not which party forms it.
Its not just a pedantic point either. The Boris administration has very little in common with the May administration. To a material extent Boris ran against the policies of May and Hammond and his government has been in power for barely a year and effectively 4 months.
We are now 10 years into a Tory government, only 3 governments since WW2 have lasted more than 10 years and only 1 government, the Tories in 1992, won a general election after more than 10 years in power.
So the Government should have expected things to get much tougher even without Covid 19 and a likely new and more centrist and media savvy Labour leader
At risk of being pedantic, only two governments have lasted more than ten years since World War Two. A government in our system is identified by who leads it, not which party forms it.
Its not just a pedantic point either. The Boris administration has very little in common with the May administration. To a material extent Boris ran against the policies of May and Hammond and his government has been in power for barely a year and effectively 4 months.
You could make a stronger case for continuity from Campbell-Bannerman to Asquith, Baldwin to Chamberlain, Churchill to Eden or even Salisbury to Balfour. But it’s not a cast iron one, and in law, they were different governments.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
The lack of PPE is scandalous given the government's own pandemic preparedness plan (which everyone on here was sharing back when they were saying how brilliant and advanced the government's handling of this was) meant that it was essential that every hospital was full stocked and beyond.
They obviously stockpiled the wrong stuff. Why, we will have to find out in due course, although the obvious suggestion would be price. Coupled with failure of the supply chain, which is still affecting the food supply as well so not just a Government problem. Just-in-time just isn't working.
Isn't the issue with a lot of the PPE that it has expiry dates, so is difficult to stockpile in advance? Maintaining a future stockpile is going to involve constant rotation of stock in and out of the storage facility.
I suspect in these dark times even the HSE would concede, The Health and Safety etc. at Work Act 1974 trumps the PPE Regulations 2002 and an out of date visor is better than no visor.
It would be, if time expired equipment didn't get destroyed.
Mr. Borough, is that London-specific? Obviously the Met's in London, but I'm wondering if it's London only, a general picture, or a city/rural divide.
Ultimately, the lockdown requires the consent and obedience of the public. If they flout it, the situation will only get worse, and there's not much any government that isn't a dictatorship can do about that.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
It’s holiday time. I don’t have to set work and I’m demob happy.
I’m also wearier than a dog with no legs that’s just climbed Beinn Neibhis.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
I volunteered as an NHS responder and was instructed to download the app a few days ago. The app (which they are going to amend) is an existing one for medics responding to cardiac arrests (we are not expected to do that!). It is both very impressive and very alarming.
There is a simulation you can test. It does warn you before you do it, but I had a go. Next thing I know I am being scraped off the ceiling. Never knew my phone could go that loud. What a siren! And it can be set to override silent mode which would go down well in a cinema or theatre.
In very very bright red it shows me on a map where I am and where the person is having the cardiac arrest (mine was 66 metres away) and how to get there. I accept the call or reject etc, etc.
I was very impressed, but also hope the mods change the dramatic nature when it is a case of me delivering something a lot less urgent.
The lack of PPE is scandalous given the government's own pandemic preparedness plan (which everyone on here was sharing back when they were saying how brilliant and advanced the government's handling of this was) meant that it was essential that every hospital was full stocked and beyond.
They obviously stockpiled the wrong stuff. Why, we will have to find out in due course, although the obvious suggestion would be price. Coupled with failure of the supply chain, which is still affecting the food supply as well so not just a Government problem. Just-in-time just isn't working.
My wife's niece is on the front line inToulon & they have had shortages of respirators & regular masks for the last three weeks,her husband asked if we could get any here for her! So bad now that they are trying to sterilize used ones.
Friends in Greece told us that some hospitals in Athens have no masks, gloves or disinfectant.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
I think we need the bare facts .
We’re all getting browned off.
Trouble is ..... Some of the opinions are polar opposites.
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
China has approved the use of bear bile to treat critically ill coronavirus patients.
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Give me strength
Does it do that as well?
I very much doubt it but you are on the ball this morning
I think we need the bare facts .
We’re all getting browned off.
Trouble is ..... Some of the opinions are polar opposites.
Mr. Borough, is that London-specific? Obviously the Met's in London, but I'm wondering if it's London only, a general picture, or a city/rural divide.
Ultimately, the lockdown requires the consent and obedience of the public. If they flout it, the situation will only get worse, and there's not much any government that isn't a dictatorship can do about that.
It's been barely a week.
A Deltapoll last week had most voters backing jail for breaking movement restrictions, the army on the streets to support the police and a 9pm curfew. If tougher measures are needed there is support from the public for them
He doesn't seem to grasp the lag caused by the incubation and infection periods.
If it is: - An average of 5-7 days between infection and showing symptoms (if you are going to show symptoms) - An average of 16-20 days between showing symptoms and death (if you are going to die) (of course, some will be far quicker and some far slower)
... then those poor souls dying on Tuesday (and recorded yesterday) were mostly infected between 6th March and 9th March.
So how in the world could a lockdown established on the 23rd of March have affected the death rate?
Peston has an agenda - it goes back a long way.
Does it ever get off Any Other Business?
His dad was a bright chap. Very pleasant with it, as well.
Some interesting excerpts from a Reuters story today. Generally I find them well sourced and without a political bias.
TL;DR: all European governments got it wrong. My assessment is that they must have been working on bad data - either that or there is a systematic failure in the way that separate governments assessed the problem and I think that is unlikely.
BRUSSELS, April 1 (Reuters) - Barely a month before Europe embarked on a scramble for masks, ventilators and testing kits to fight coronavirus, governments told Brussels their healthcare systems were ready and there was no need to order more stocks, EU documents show. This rosy assessment is in stark contrast to the shortages of masks and medical equipment just a few weeks later, when the European Commission estimated needs across EU states to be 10 times higher than would usually be available.
[snip]
"Things under control," a European Commission official said at a closed-door meeting with diplomats from member states on Feb. 5, two weeks after China locked down nearly 60 million people in Hubei ... "There is strong level of preparedness in member states, most have measures in place" to detect and treat COVID-19, the official said, relaying comments from national envoys, according to minutes of the meeting seen by Reuters.
[snip]
EU governments began to realise the gravity of the situation in March but rather than focusing on joint action many resorted to protectionist measures, raising trade barriers to hinder the export of medical equipment to their neighbours.
[snip]
The optimistic analysis presented by the European Commission official on Feb. 5 stemmed from a series of meetings with health experts from EU member states. At a meeting on Jan. 31, delegates from national health ministries told the Commission they did not need help acquiring medical equipment, according to the minutes. ... with only four states warning they might need protective equipment if the situation worsened in Europe. On Feb. 28 ... the European Commission launched a joint procurement programme for face masks and other protective gear. The tender ... initially received no offers, an internal document seen by Reuters showed. EU member states are now assessing bids made under a second tender but no contracts have yet been signed and deliveries are still weeks away, according to Commission estimates.
[snip]
Now, EU states are facing a massive shortage of testing kits and launched a joint procurement scheme on March 18. The need to jointly acquire ventilators ... only arose for the first time at a meeting of EU health experts on March 13, according to minutes of the meeting.
[snip]
Risks that healthcare systems might exceed their capacity were considered "low to moderate" in mid-February by the EU agency for disease control, which relies on assessments by individual member states. A month later, it updated its assessment to say no countries would have enough intensive care beds by mid-April.
The lack of PPE is scandalous given the government's own pandemic preparedness plan (which everyone on here was sharing back when they were saying how brilliant and advanced the government's handling of this was) meant that it was essential that every hospital was full stocked and beyond.
They obviously stockpiled the wrong stuff. Why, we will have to find out in due course, although the obvious suggestion would be price. Coupled with failure of the supply chain, which is still affecting the food supply as well so not just a Government problem. Just-in-time just isn't working.
Isn't the issue with a lot of the PPE that it has expiry dates, so is difficult to stockpile in advance? Maintaining a future stockpile is going to involve constant rotation of stock in and out of the storage facility.
I suspect in these dark times even the HSE would concede, The Health and Safety etc. at Work Act 1974 trumps the PPE Regulations 2002 and an out of date visor is better than no visor.
It would be, if time expired equipment didn't get destroyed.
He's right the CSA and CMO made it quite clear that timing was critical as you might only get one go at it.
I saw a big group of young twenty-something boys on the benches round the back of a (closed) pub yesterday. All on furlough getting paid handsomely to do nothing all day. They are nice, fit young boys, whose heads are collectuvely going. They were saying they can't stay home with Mam and Dad anymore so had arranged a big piss up.
Comments
Surely you see that?
This way all that happened was that you got Berned.
Unfortunately, all of the above are signs of DKE-19, a highly contagious illness threatening the response against COVID-19. We must act today to flatten the curve of armchair epidemiology, or we will all be in peril.
Things you can do to flatten the curve
Wash your phone for at least 20 seconds fully immersed in soapy water
6 ft of social media distancing
If take appears hot/feverish, seek expert help
Check the qualifications of authors BEFORE sharing
Listen to people who know what they are talking about
Push for better social media infrastructure that can slow the spread of DKE-19 and future strains
https://medium.com/@noahhaber/flatten-the-curve-of-armchair-epidemiology-9aa8cf92d652
The way around it, is to log in first from the Vanilla site http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/ then refresh the page to check the login worked, then go to the main site once logged in.
To be serious - there are occasional problems logging on depending on phone or laptop as well as with different browsers not to mention problems with the vanilla version of the site or the PB one. Best to find the one which works best and stick to it.
The UK is aiming to carry out 100,000 tests for coronavirus a day in "a small number of weeks," according to Prof Paul Cosford, emeritus medical director of Public Health England.
Prof Cosford told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “Everybody involved is frustrated that we haven’t yet got to the position that we need to get to (on testing)."
Asked why other testing facilities in the country were not being used, Prof Cosford said Public Health England was looking at how it could use all the country's laboratories "to boost up at least 100,000 tests a day, hopefully more”.
He added that he would expect this work to be in place “over the coming days and a small number of weeks”.
you must pun sub-conciously.
All the best.
There are hints that the global rate of growth of deaths is moderating, as the lockdowns take effect in Italy and Spain, but we're yet to see whether growth in the US/elsewhere will see a further acceleration.
Pessimistic extrapolation: 50,000 deaths on April 20th.
Peston is a plonker but at least he has played a part in raising THE most important issue up the Governments to do list.
Other peoples Agenda on here is to save Gove rather than lives or to call those raising valid criticisms names.
Everyone has an Agenda
LOL
Good luck in your role Mr Urquhart.
The calls and inquiries to the victim care service of #Gender Violence 016 have increased during the confinement of the #Covid19 crisis.
☎️ Calls 016: They have increased by 19 %
📧 Online inquiries 016: increased by 286,3 %.
📲 There is a new psychological care service via whatsapp to 016.
I think with Boris, Whitty, Hancock and Cummings all (largely) off the scene through catching COVID-19 themselves the governments messaging and policy management has fallen apart. Journalists are probably doing what they always do which is filling in the vacuum with panic and hysteria.
Just saw a clip of Peston being taken apart by the deputy chief medical office on Twitter a few moments ago... Preston clearly has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and if he's reflective of our political lobby journalists who are driving this panic it's hard to know whether the panic and criticism of the government is justified or not.
Would it be better to replace political/lobby journalists with science/medical journalists at the governments daily press briefings I wonder?
https://5essexcourt.co.uk/images/uploads/articles/Coronavirus_-_A_Guide_for_Police_Forces_in_England_.pdf
https://tinyurl.com/s5yb3jr
The NHS will need to start looking out of the box at alternatives. One of my customers is setting up to produce face masks within 2 weeks. We will need to resterilise respirators like the USA as no way we can buy enough.
https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/5g/0cyv22hls0t6.png
FFS GET MORE PUMPS!!
Even a drift from 0.6 to 0.8 would make a large difference in the effectiveness of the lockdown.
Unfortunately with Carers in day and night even that may not get us through.
So the Government should have expected things to get much tougher even without Covid 19 and a likely new and more centrist and media savvy Labour leader
Procurement czars would do nothing to change that any time soon.
(FWIW I think the WHO has done rather poorly in this crisis. I no longer set much store by their recommendations.)
--AS
Just played the part of Winston Smith doing my workout with Joe Wicks... good, unsettling idea
Now the best episode of Frasier is on Ch4
The National Health Commission has recommended the use of Tan Re Qing - an injection that contains bear bile, goat horn and herbs - to treat patients with Covid-19.
But there is no evidence the mixture has any medicinal value.
Bear bile, which is produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder, has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years and fetches a high price in the illegal international market.
The move to approve its use has angered animal rights activists and comes just weeks after the country banned the sale of wild animals for food.
Tell them that covid-19 is spread through the eating of pineapples on pizzas.
(TSE is going to go mental at me!)
Greg Fell, director of public health in Sheffield, said: "I understand that people may find the reported number of cases in Sheffield worrying, but the data is simply a reflection that there is more testing happening here currently than in some other areas and so by default we know about more positive cases."
from BBC 2 days ago but I have seen other reports saying similar things.
No problem from me. What pisses me off is Cambridge types having a go at other Cambridge types and their privileged education.
Ultimately, the lockdown requires the consent and obedience of the public. If they flout it, the situation will only get worse, and there's not much any government that isn't a dictatorship can do about that.
It's been barely a week.
I’m also wearier than a dog with no legs that’s just climbed Beinn Neibhis.
There is a simulation you can test. It does warn you before you do it, but I had a go. Next thing I know I am being scraped off the ceiling. Never knew my phone could go that loud. What a siren! And it can be set to override silent mode which would go down well in a cinema or theatre.
In very very bright red it shows me on a map where I am and where the person is having the cardiac arrest (mine was 66 metres away) and how to get there. I accept the call or reject etc, etc.
I was very impressed, but also hope the mods change the dramatic nature when it is a case of me delivering something a lot less urgent.
My wife's niece is on the front line inToulon & they have had shortages of respirators & regular masks for the last three weeks,her husband asked if we could get any here for her! So bad now that they are trying to sterilize used ones.
Friends in Greece told us that some hospitals in Athens have no masks, gloves or disinfectant.
TL;DR: all European governments got it wrong. My assessment is that they must have been working on bad data - either that or there is a systematic failure in the way that separate governments assessed the problem and I think that is unlikely.
BRUSSELS, April 1 (Reuters) - Barely a month before Europe embarked on a scramble for masks, ventilators and testing kits to fight coronavirus, governments told Brussels their healthcare systems were ready and there was no need to order more stocks, EU documents show. This rosy assessment is in stark contrast to the shortages of masks and medical equipment just a few weeks later, when the European Commission estimated needs across EU states to be 10 times higher than would usually be available.
[snip]
"Things under control," a European Commission official said at a closed-door meeting with diplomats from member states on Feb. 5, two weeks after China locked down nearly 60 million people in Hubei ... "There is strong level of preparedness in member states, most have measures in place" to detect and treat COVID-19, the official said, relaying comments from national envoys, according to minutes of the meeting seen by Reuters.
[snip]
EU governments began to realise the gravity of the situation in March but rather than focusing on joint action many resorted to protectionist measures, raising trade barriers to hinder the
export of medical equipment to their neighbours.
[snip]
The optimistic analysis presented by the European Commission official on Feb. 5 stemmed from a series of meetings with health experts from EU member states. At a meeting on Jan. 31, delegates from national health ministries told the Commission they did not need help acquiring
medical equipment, according to the minutes. ... with only four states warning they might need protective equipment if the situation worsened in Europe. On Feb. 28 ... the European Commission launched a joint procurement programme for face masks and other protective gear. The tender ... initially received no offers, an internal document seen by Reuters showed. EU member states are now assessing bids made under a second tender but no contracts have yet been signed and deliveries are still weeks away, according to Commission estimates.
[snip]
Now, EU states are facing a massive shortage of testing kits and launched a joint procurement scheme on March 18. The need to jointly acquire ventilators ... only arose for the first time at a meeting of EU health experts on March 13, according to minutes of the meeting.
[snip]
Risks that healthcare systems might exceed their capacity were considered "low to moderate" in mid-February by the EU agency for disease control, which relies on assessments by
individual member states. A month later, it updated its assessment to say no countries
would have enough intensive care beds by mid-April.
https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1245627627685023744?s=20
I didn't join them. I came home and got pissed.