TL;DR version: they test fired a missile at a target before the ship that towed it into position could get out of the way and hit her instead. The Iranian military are describing this as a “collision”.
The IRGC. Officially the only people on the planet more useless than Donald Trump.
Good morning everyone. Much brighter morning here than I at any rate was led to expect. So at least the weather outlook isn't too bad.
As far as the news is concerned, to my surprise I feel a little sorry for Boris. He wanted to be PM, he schemed and plotted to get the job, and very shortly after he finally achieved his ambition he was faced with a situation with which, I suspect, even he knows, he is totally unsuited to coping.
+1. Nailed it. The lying disingenuous fat git is totally unsuitable at the best of times, let alone when this country is going through a national crisis. However a country sadly deserves the leaders it gets...
At the last election, we had a choice. One party was led by an elderly rich racist based in London, who owed his position to family links, had never done a day’s work in his life, was held in widespread suspicion in his own party, and was noted for appointing people who were ideologically sound rather than competent or intelligent. He was also said to be controlled by a sinister adviser of limited intellect, alleged links to Russia and a long track record of sucking up to authoritarian regimes.
So people rejected that option and voted in overwhelming numbers for Boris Johnson.
The total number of cases linked to nightclubs in Itaewon in Seoul, visited by a 29-year-old patient earlier this month, increased to 54 as of noon Sunday in Seoul, according to the Korea Centers for Disease Control & Prevention’s Director-General Jung Eun-kyeong. Authorities are estimating between 6,000 to 7,000 could have been exposed to the virus from clubs between April 29 and May 6.
+1. Nailed it. The lying disingenuous fat git is totally unsuitable at the best of times, let alone when this country is going through a national crisis. However a country sadly deserves the leaders it gets...
The total number of cases linked to nightclubs in Itaewon in Seoul, visited by a 29-year-old patient earlier this month, increased to 54 as of noon Sunday in Seoul, according to the Korea Centers for Disease Control & Prevention’s Director-General Jung Eun-kyeong. Authorities are estimating between 6,000 to 7,000 could have been exposed to the virus from clubs between April 29 and May 6.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
The total number of cases linked to nightclubs in Itaewon in Seoul, visited by a 29-year-old patient earlier this month, increased to 54 as of noon Sunday in Seoul, according to the Korea Centers for Disease Control & Prevention’s Director-General Jung Eun-kyeong. Authorities are estimating between 6,000 to 7,000 could have been exposed to the virus from clubs between April 29 and May 6.
We aren't going back to normal life until there is a vaccine
If there is a vaccine.
However clearly South Korean authorities have managed to track and trace those who met this patient at the nightclubs
No apparently not. Even with SK amazing system, only traced 700 of them so far and already found 11 secondary infections.
One issue is that they were gay clubs and the south koreans shall we say arent exactly enlightened when it comes to these things.
If you are under 50 you have near zero chance of dying from Covid anyway so I have no doubt young people will return to nightclubs in due course, vaccine or no vaccine
That of course isnt the problem. It is when they then go to work or visit family.
So what, their choice.
Just to be clear - when you say "so what, their choice", you really do mean it's their choice to spread the virus and cause other people's deaths?
+1. Nailed it. The lying disingenuous fat git is totally unsuitable at the best of times, let alone when this country is going through a national crisis. However a country sadly deserves the leaders it gets...
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Ummm, perhaps that’s why. Anyone vaguely competent would have had the detail ready to go BEFORE making the announcement and released it immediately afterwards, so there wouldn’t be this confusion.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
TBH I don't think Corbyn would have been quite as bad. But that, admittedly, isn't setting a high bar.
I didn't become an overnight epidemiologist, I already told you I was asleep. But seriously, if you know what stay alert means in the current context, and how it helps me to keep my family safe right now, I am all ears. How many more thousands of people have to die in this country before the Boris-felaters on this site admit that their man is just another useless public school chancer, promoted way beyond his ability and completely out of his depth?
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
TBH I don't think Corbyn would have been quite as bad. But that, admittedly, isn't setting a high bar.
Oh come on. Corbyn’s even dimmer and more inefficient than Johnson. He’s Trump to Johnson’s Clinton.
But as I grew tired of reminding people during the GFC, saying ‘the other lot would have been even worse’ doesn’t excuse lies, evasion, muddle, inefficiency and blunders that can and should have been avoided by the party in power.
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
Well, yes. That’s why the lockdown is being eased in small increments.
I sympathise with the PM on this as I too have experience of trying to get complex ideas across to people. In fact I need to go away and prepare a remote lesson on Newton’s second law in a bit. If fifty percent get it first time I’ll have done very well.
Err, whoops! Isn't it kinda military exercise 101, to make sure the range is completely clear before firing live ammunition?
This is Iran. They had a mid air between an F-5 and Il-76 AWACS on their national day flyover.
Having said that it happens to all armed forces. The RAF set a record for friendly fire incidents that has been unchallenged for 75 years with the SS Cap Arcona incident.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
If the worst criticism is that there's no ETA then Boris has done a good job. There shouldn't be an ETA right now! We haven't got the R or the infections down enough to have a "firm ETA" which he explained last night in the video to anyone who listened to it and understood it.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Ummm, perhaps that’s why. Anyone vaguely competent would have had the detail ready to go BEFORE making the announcement and released it immediately afterwards, so there wouldn’t be this confusion.
Then he’d have been criticised for ignoring parliament.....let’s see what the plan actually says. And in due course I look forward to seeing how the devolved administrations get beyond “Stay Home” when that time comes.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
TBH I don't think Corbyn would have been quite as bad. But that, admittedly, isn't setting a high bar.
Oh come on. Corbyn’s even dimmer and more inefficient than Johnson. He’s Trump to Johnson’s Clinton.
But as I grew tired of reminding people during the GFC, saying ‘the other lot would have been even worse’ doesn’t excuse lies, evasion, muddle, inefficiency and blunders that can and should have been avoided by the party in power.
The chaotic comedy of errors witnessed yesterday could have been taken straight from the Jeremy Corbyn playbook. It really was that bad. And the garbled nonsensical speech, it could have been written by Seamus Milne.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
TBH I don't think Corbyn would have been quite as bad. But that, admittedly, isn't setting a high bar.
Oh come on. Corbyn’s even dimmer and more inefficient than Johnson. He’s Trump to Johnson’s Clinton.
But as I grew tired of reminding people during the GFC, saying ‘the other lot would have been even worse’ doesn’t excuse lies, evasion, muddle, inefficiency and blunders that can and should have been avoided by the party in power.
Fair point; there don't seem to be many capable, or confidence-inspiring, political leaders about at the moment. Apart, perhaps, from Nicola Sturgeon.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
Well, yes. That’s why the lockdown is being eased in small increments.
I sympathise with the PM on this as I too have experience of trying to get complex ideas across to people. In fact I need to go away and prepare a remote lesson on Newton’s second law in a bit. If fifty percent get it first time I’ll have done very well.
So, according to you, we stop releasing the lockdown at the point when R rises above 1. In fact, at that point, we tighten the restrictions so that it goes back down. And the lockdown then becomes permanent, until there's a vaccine?
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
For the first time in weeks I can hear the constant hum of traffic on the B4265 road. It is not an exceptionally busy road and we are still in lockdown in Wales. I expect England will be gridlocked within the next hour.
If the worst criticism is that there's no ETA then Boris has done a good job. There shouldn't be an ETA right now! We haven't got the R or the infections down enough to have a "firm ETA" which he explained last night in the video to anyone who listened to it and understood it.
The core criticism is a load of midweek government briefing of the media that a big relaxation was coming , followed by a climbdown only allowing people to sit in the park like they are already, and play golf with other members of their household.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
TBH I don't think Corbyn would have been quite as bad. But that, admittedly, isn't setting a high bar.
Oh come on. Corbyn’s even dimmer and more inefficient than Johnson. He’s Trump to Johnson’s Clinton.
But as I grew tired of reminding people during the GFC, saying ‘the other lot would have been even worse’ doesn’t excuse lies, evasion, muddle, inefficiency and blunders that can and should have been avoided by the party in power.
Fair point; there don't seem to be many capable, or confidence-inspiring, political leaders about at the moment. Apart, perhaps, from Nicola Sturgeon.
When Scotland appears to be having a worse care homes crisis than England it is curious how so little of the criticism rightly directed at Boris is directed at her.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
Meanwhile we should stay alert to something that isn’t visible.
This is the kind of stupid remark I despair of. Just because a virus is invisible why does that preclude alertness? We pretty-much know how the virus spreads so engage your brain and take sensible precautions.
And Boris could hardly read out a 60-page document on television, could he? This is complex and nuanced and there will be all sorts of difficult questions to navigate.
I'm tempted to suggest you grow up. Oh I just did.
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
If the worst criticism is that there's no ETA then Boris has done a good job. There shouldn't be an ETA right now! We haven't got the R or the infections down enough to have a "firm ETA" which he explained last night in the video to anyone who listened to it and understood it.
The core criticism is a load of midweek government briefing of the media that a big relaxation was coming , followed by a climbdown only allowing people to sit in the park like they are already, and play golf with other members of their household.
So are you criticising them for the media's overreaction (briefed or not) - or are you criticising them for not going ahead with what the media speculated about?
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better?
I did wonder how long it would take to get to this point.
Hunt is a rat eyed fuck but he would have done a far better job. The Saj is over fond of the definite article but he would have done a better job. etc.
The tories opted for Fatty Johnson's Flying Circus so they can wear it.
I'm just relieved to know that 32,000 (and rising) dead isn't a catastrophe.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
... but you will only know whether R has gone to 1.1 or 2.2 etc after a two week wait.
Meanwhile we should stay alert to something that isn’t visible.
This is the kind of stupid remark I despair of. Just because a virus is invisible why does that preclude alertness? We pretty-much know how the virus spreads so engage your brain and take sensible precautions.
And Boris could hardly read out a 60-page document on television, could he? This is complex and nuanced and there will be all sorts of difficult questions to navigate.
I'm tempted to suggest you grow up. Oh I just did.
"alert": quick to notice any unusual and potentially dangerous or difficult circumstances; the state of being watchful for possible danger.
What difference would that make? You need to be 2 metres apart so even if your friend is your hairdresser she can't cut your hair in the middle of a park. So what an asinine tweet.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
I’m big enough to tell you that your whole attitude to deaths caused by this government’s negligence is contemptible. Seriously, fuck off with your world weary affectation of sophistication. Far too many people died because Boris Johnson was too busy in bed to attend meetings and too lazy to read enough about what was coming to make the prompt decisions made in many other countries.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
... but you will only know whether R has gone to 1.1 or 2.2 etc after a two week wait.
Indeed hence the small steps approach to releasing the lockdown.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Anonymous people on the internet asking for apologies because someone doesn't take their completely unverifiable & unconvincing back story seriously is one of my favourite things.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Not sure if this has been linked to, apologies if it has, but it is very perceptive: those who can work from home generally tend to be higher earners, those who can’t mostly aren’t. Thus, the poorer members of society are now being asked to take greater risks than the more affluent. There could also be a geographical element to this if higher percentages of the working population in certain parts of the country work from home. Not sure what it means politically, but it seems like something to be considered: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
Judging by your casual attitude to the government’s monumental failings that have caused thousands of unnecessary deaths, you’re the shit stuck at the bottom.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better?
I did wonder how long it would take to get to this point.
Hunt is a rat eyed fuck but he would have done a far better job. The Saj is over fond of the definite article but he would have done a better job. etc.
The tories opted for Fatty Johnson's Flying Circus so they can wear it.
I'm just relieved to know that 32,000 (and rising) dead isn't a catastrophe.
I assumed that when Johnson said it could have been a catastrophe, he meant he could have died himself.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
Not "a very long time". Maybe six weeks.
If the prior peak was 100,000 If the baseline when lockdown is lifted to raise R above 1 is 10,000 If R goes to 1.1 And if the reproduction cycle is 5 days long
Then it would take 17 weeks to get from 10,000 to 100,000 would it not?
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
I haven’t mentioned Brexit. Why? Because it is irrelevant to the point at hand.
But you are so slavishly loyal to the Conservative party that you regard thousands of avoidable deaths as something to whitewash rather than something to deplore, because deploring it would cause your party grief.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
Judging by your casual attitude to the government’s monumental failings that have caused thousands of unnecessary deaths, you’re the shit stuck at the bottom.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
Judging by your casual attitude to the government’s monumental failings that have caused thousands of unnecessary deaths, you’re the shit stuck at the bottom.
What an obnoxious comment
Who do you think you are
I tell you what I’m not. I’m not an old fart who thinks he can comment freely on someone he has never (thank goodness) met, offering cod psychology to avoid engaging with the substantive points made and all in the service of a government that has let the country down so badly that thousands have died unnecessarily.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
I’m big enough to tell you that your whole attitude to deaths caused by this government’s negligence is contemptible. Seriously, fuck off with your world weary affectation of sophistication. Far too many people died because Boris Johnson was too busy in bed to attend meetings and too lazy to read enough about what was coming to make the prompt decisions made in many other countries.
Does your criticism of Johnson extend to Sturgeon, Foster and Drakeford?
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Thanks for the clarification BGNW.
Sad
It is sad because Alastair does have good contributions to make
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
Not "a very long time". Maybe six weeks.
If the prior peak was 100,000 If the baseline when lockdown is lifted to raise R above 1 is 10,000 If R goes to 1.1 And if the reproduction cycle is 5 days long
Then it would take 17 weeks to get from 10,000 to 100,000 would it not?
Reportedly, serology testing indicates around 10% of the population has been infected. That means testing has identified around 3% of infections.
I'm seeing claims that the "Stay Alert" message is part of a pivot away from government-led collective action against the virus to government-advised personal responsibility, to absolve HMG of blame for continuing fatalities?
It doesn't feel that way to me, but I'm interested in what other people think. Am I missing something?
Nope , I think you are correct, Bozo is for hiding behind the sofa and just saying it was the plebs fault they got themselves killed.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
Not "a very long time". Maybe six weeks.
If the prior peak was 100,000 If the baseline when lockdown is lifted to raise R above 1 is 10,000 If R goes to 1.1 And if the reproduction cycle is 5 days long
Then it would take 17 weeks to get from 10,000 to 100,000 would it not?
Reportedly, serology testing indicates around 10% of the population has been infected. That means testing has identified around 3% of infections.
You think we're now detecting 40% of infections?
SERIOUSLY??????
No. I never said that.
R is still below 1 so infection numbers are going to continue to go down. So if and when R goes above 1 in the future the numbers of daily infected people will be at that crossover point be below our current number by definition.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better?
I did wonder how long it would take to get to this point.
Hunt is a rat eyed fuck but he would have done a far better job. The Saj is over fond of the definite article but he would have done a better job. etc.
The tories opted for Fatty Johnson's Flying Circus so they can wear it.
I'm just relieved to know that 32,000 (and rising) dead isn't a catastrophe.
I assumed that when Johnson said it could have been a catastrophe, he meant he could have died himself.
Possibly.
But Johnson highlighted his magnificence by explaining that a mere 30,000 had perished as opposed to the half a million who would have died without his decisive action. To an extent he is right.
It has been widely touted that the second wave will likely as not be worse than the first, so after yesterday's intervention I fear before long we could be heading ever closer to that magic half a million number. I have never before so wanted a Boris Johnson gamble to pay off for him!
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Anonymous people on the internet asking for apologies because someone doesn't take their completely unverifiable & unconvincing back story seriously is one of my favourite things.
Steady on. I know lots of soi disant novelists who repeatedly misuse reflexive pronouns.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
I do worry about those who think extra 10,000s a death are somehow ok. That somehow we should plough through this and take the additional death on the chin. If you are advocating additional deaths, it is a perfectly valid question to ask who are you prepared to lose?
Yes, this is serious. Yes the government did not create the virus. Whilst we struggle to negotiate a catch 22, if we lived just a few hundred miles away in Germany, somehow it appears we would be better off thee past few weeks. Other places are far better off. It is perfectly valid to ask why and whether we need to be in a catch 22 at all.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety
How do you know, are you a doctor or a psychiatrist ?
What Johnson’s speech clearly signalled was the winding down of the furlough scheme. We are six weeks away from a lot of businesses having to take some very serious decisions. Many people may soon be experiencing a sharp decline in income. That will have very serious economic and political implications.
Interesting that neither the Labour nor SNP spokesmen on R4 has said that workers should walk out of their work if they feel the environment isn’t safe.
What Johnson’s speech clearly signalled was the winding down of the furlough scheme. We are six weeks away from a lot of businesses having to take some very serious decisions. Many people may soon be experiencing a sharp decline in income. That will have very serious economic and political implications.
Yep, a swathe of companies and their employees were thrown to the dogs yesterday.
What Johnson’s speech clearly signalled was the winding down of the furlough scheme. We are six weeks away from a lot of businesses having to take some very serious decisions. Many people may soon be experiencing a sharp decline in income. That will have very serious economic and political implications.
Quite so. Last nights speech makes most sense if the government is seriously worried about its accounts. They are no doubt completely shocking,
What Johnson’s speech clearly signalled was the winding down of the furlough scheme. We are six weeks away from a lot of businesses having to take some very serious decisions. Many people may soon be experiencing a sharp decline in income. That will have very serious economic and political implications.
Yes - that appears to be the bigger point being missed.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
TBH I don't think Corbyn would have been quite as bad. But that, admittedly, isn't setting a high bar.
Oh come on. Corbyn’s even dimmer and more inefficient than Johnson. He’s Trump to Johnson’s Clinton.
But as I grew tired of reminding people during the GFC, saying ‘the other lot would have been even worse’ doesn’t excuse lies, evasion, muddle, inefficiency and blunders that can and should have been avoided by the party in power.
Fair point; there don't seem to be many capable, or confidence-inspiring, political leaders about at the moment. Apart, perhaps, from Nicola Sturgeon.
When Scotland appears to be having a worse care homes crisis than England it is curious how so little of the criticism rightly directed at Boris is directed at her.
You found any proof of that yet, I am still waiting from yesterday for you to prove it is not your usual Tory lies.
Good advice today for many would be to join a union pronto.
Why have you not suggested this to those who have had to go to work over the past 7 weeks to enable those on Furlough to sit at home and wait for their food deliveries?
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
I wish I could understand what this stuff about "watching the R number" means.
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
That seems to be the implication of the new fifth test. I doubt that’s what would happen in practice though.
Well, all I can say is that surely even the Boris fans care about the political (and economic) consequences of getting this wrong. And if R goes above 1 and stays above 1, in only a few weeks we're going to have a second wave bigger than the first one. How long do they think the second lockdown would have to be, in those circumstances?
That's not right technically.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
Not "a very long time". Maybe six weeks.
If the prior peak was 100,000 If the baseline when lockdown is lifted to raise R above 1 is 10,000 If R goes to 1.1 And if the reproduction cycle is 5 days long
Then it would take 17 weeks to get from 10,000 to 100,000 would it not?
Reportedly, serology testing indicates around 10% of the population has been infected. That means testing has identified around 3% of infections.
You think we're now detecting 40% of infections?
SERIOUSLY??????
No. I never said that.
Your calculation was based on assuming a daily rate of 10,000. It's much higher.
I'm seeing claims that the "Stay Alert" message is part of a pivot away from government-led collective action against the virus to government-advised personal responsibility, to absolve HMG of blame for continuing fatalities?
It doesn't feel that way to me, but I'm interested in what other people think. Am I missing something?
Nope , I think you are correct, Bozo is for hiding behind the sofa and just saying it was the plebs fault they got themselves killed.
Malc.... just fuck.off for a while till your sense of reason returns.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety
How do you know, are you a doctor or a psychiatrist ?
In PB Top Trumps a PB Tory holds a higher value than either a Doctor or a Psychiatrist, so it is a perfectly legitimate call to make.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Thanks for the clarification BGNW.
Sad
I have saw some bollox on here but the posts this morning take the biscuit, you two need to stop and think about the rubbish you are posting, mawkish mince.
Comments
So people rejected that option and voted in overwhelming numbers for Boris Johnson.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
I am saving lives
You are staying alert
He's a superspreader
That when R goes back above 1 (as it reportedly has in Germany already) we go back into lockdown?
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
But as I grew tired of reminding people during the GFC, saying ‘the other lot would have been even worse’ doesn’t excuse lies, evasion, muddle, inefficiency and blunders that can and should have been avoided by the party in power.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/british-politics-and-covid-19-about-become-big-argument-about-social-class
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1259728000893026304
Oh, wait...
I sympathise with the PM on this as I too have experience of trying to get complex ideas across to people. In fact I need to go away and prepare a remote lesson on Newton’s second law in a bit. If fifty percent get it first time I’ll have done very well.
Having said that it happens to all armed forces. The RAF set a record for friendly fire incidents that has been unchallenged for 75 years with the SS Cap Arcona incident.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
If R goes above 1 it will start rising again but how fast depends upon the R and where to depends upon the base number of infections.
If R goes back to say 3 then it won't take long for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave.
If R goes back to say 1.1 then it would take a very long time for a second wave to be bigger than the first wave and it might be possible to try and get R back down somehow without a second lockdown.
https://twitter.com/OliverHealdUK/status/1259557899359137792?s=20
And Boris could hardly read out a 60-page document on television, could he? This is complex and nuanced and there will be all sorts of difficult questions to navigate.
I'm tempted to suggest you grow up. Oh I just did.
The last 24 hours have seemed like a pantomime.
Hunt is a rat eyed fuck but he would have done a far better job. The Saj is over fond of the definite article but he would have done a better job. etc.
The tories opted for Fatty Johnson's Flying Circus so they can wear it.
I'm just relieved to know that 32,000 (and rising) dead isn't a catastrophe.
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1259735399813074944
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
It has to be scheduled by the medical situation, not the calendar.
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Alastair being one of them.
If the baseline when lockdown is lifted to raise R above 1 is 10,000
If R goes to 1.1
And if the reproduction cycle is 5 days long
Then it would take 17 weeks to get from 10,000 to 100,000 would it not?
Sad
But you are so slavishly loyal to the Conservative party that you regard thousands of avoidable deaths as something to whitewash rather than something to deplore, because deploring it would cause your party grief.
Who do you think you are
But his anger and bile at times is outrageous
You think we're now detecting 40% of infections?
SERIOUSLY??????
While driving do you stay alert for only the visible dangers you can see? Or are you alert for the hazards that you need to pay attention to?
If you are incapable of seeing a hazard you would not be able to pass a driving theory test nowadays and quite right too.
R is still below 1 so infection numbers are going to continue to go down. So if and when R goes above 1 in the future the numbers of daily infected people will be at that crossover point be below our current number by definition.
If you want to ask me what the hazards look like I can tell you.
But Johnson highlighted his magnificence by explaining that a mere 30,000 had perished as opposed to the half a million who would have died without his decisive action. To an extent he is right.
It has been widely touted that the second wave will likely as not be worse than the first, so after yesterday's intervention I fear before long we could be heading ever closer to that magic half a million number. I have never before so wanted a Boris Johnson gamble to pay off for him!
Yes, this is serious. Yes the government did not create the virus. Whilst we struggle to negotiate a catch 22, if we lived just a few hundred miles away in Germany, somehow it appears we would be better off thee past few weeks. Other places are far better off. It is perfectly valid to ask why and whether we need to be in a catch 22 at all.
https://www.constructionleadershipcouncil.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Site-Operating-Procedures-Version-3.pdf
In consulation with Public Health England they published their first advice on the 24/3/2020