I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
Pulled it right out of his arse like all the rest of the shite he spouts.
So what's your estimate for total deaths to date then?
I prefer to go with the official statistics rather than embracing the guesstimates of some bloke off t'Twitter and pronouncing them as gospel.
Does this utter idiocy happen in any other country in the world? Do their 'journalists' compete to extrapolate the worst possible outcome?
No. Only in Britain.
He's using official statistics. Then filling in the gap for the last week and a half. I guess you'd accept 55,000 as official?
No, I accept the internationally-comparable figure used in comparing deaths worldwide, which as of today stands at 35,341.
If it gets updated to 55,000 or higher in due course then so be it, but doing so pre-emptively when no other country follows that standard is ridiculous.
Key bit is on p3: A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
The UK is attempting to conform to this standard (albeit not meeting it). Most other countries are falling far shorter, but some (Ireland, Belgium, France) are doing better than others. The 55k is far closer to the guidelines than the 35k, and the 62k is just an attempt to extrapolate out the reporting delay.
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
The chance of there not being an inquiry is 0%.
The question is what should be the inquiries remit.
I think the inquiry should investigate what can be learnt for the future, eadric wants to see "groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians" being brought to justice.
Personally one seems more helpful for the future than the other, what do you think?
I cannot even manufacture interest in this story. We're all used to circular patterns of claim and counterclaim in politics, most of us have the wonkish stamina to push on through it anyway, but the sides are literally just repeating the same patterns as last time. It doesn't mean the same outcome will occur, but it makes it very very boring.
Sean O'Grady is suffering from an extreme case of Boris Derangement Syndrome. Unless they are physically disabled, Prime Ministers with large majorities don't just decide to give up no matter how difficult the circumstances, especially this early in their terms.
My money is firmly on Johnson resigning before the end of 2022.
He will do a runner before there is any chance of holding him accountable for his handling of the pandemic or the consequences of Brexit.
He dodges accountability during the best of times and we are very far from the best of times right now. He will claim it is for health reasons but really that will be just another in a long line of lies.
It will be sooner if it is his health
Otherwise I expect him to continue in office
If it's found that the government has made a lot of serious mistakes with regard to the handling of the virus he may have no choice but to leave early, even if he wasn't personally responsible.
So what could have done different ?
Restriction on migration, quarantine etc ? Yes but the entire political class seems opposed to that.
An earlier lockdown ? Possibly but only by a few days and there was little to stop people doing so themselves, as indeed many did.
A big push push earlier on testing ? Yes but this was a failure of the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup.
Care homes ? A lack of dynamic leadership from the government but the real responsibility lies with crass decisions at operational levels.
A big early push on PPE ? Possibly but that would go against the globalist mindset dominant in government.
A clearer strategy ? Possibly but this goes back to the scientists and their models.
Messaging - did 'protect the NHS' lead to extra non-covid deaths ? Possibly but would an alternative have been riskier ?
Now what did the government do well on ? Nightingales, ventilators, furloughs and belatedly testing.
I remain convinced that during the last 2 weeks of February when Boris went AWOl at Chevening to sort out his private life, we missed the opportunity to really get on top of what was happening around the world and learn from the mistakes others were making.
Boris did not wake up to the danger early enough and we have been playing catch up ever since and are probably going to end up with about the worst outcome in Europe. This will also knock on to the economic impact because I expect we will be last European nation to properly come out of lockdown.
But what mistakes were other countries known to be doing in February ?
In Italy the first death was on 21/02/20 and that had risen to 29 by the end of February.
In Spain there were no deaths until 08/03/20 and only 81 known cases by the end of February.
So what could the government have done in February ?
Make an effort to get PPE and testing organised better ? Possibly.
Warn people not to leave the country ? Ideally but in reality no government was going to do that.
Organising PPE and testing should have been the domain of the Health Secretary, not the PM.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Come on, it's not like they've bought a field or anything.
It was so secret it was publicised to all and sundry and, apparently, watched by around twenty thousand people.
Seriously, is anyone taken in by the sort of stuff that they are spewing out at the moment? That their 'gotchas' are staff making demands regarding safety and on kids being grubby (come on, who thinks they aren't?) is pretty funny really.
This affair has really brought home just what scum they are. All for their ideology at the expense of children, parents and staff safety. They should be telling the government to treat schools the same as anywhere else, not as second class, when it comes to safety and that they should follow what other countries are actually doing not attempting a market stall knock off policy that tries to do half the job on the cheap.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
Have you seen the shit the GOP have pulled in Georgia?
twitter.com/kaysteiger/status/1262735680825933824
The US southern states do seem to be little better than banana republics
American politics seems institutionally corrupt, and it is mainly on one side. Winning is all that counts, not high-minded ideals like democracy or the Constitution. Richard Nixon must be turning in his grave at what they get away with now.
Perhaps if we dig his grave up, fit some magnets and surround with stator coils, the late Mr Nixon's spinning could be a source of green energy? He should certainly be going around quickly enough...
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
There's a scientific one, we lacked the testing capabilities they had. Oh well, we've built it now.
Banging on like a lunatic about bringing people to justice won't bring anyone back from the dead or save lives in the future. After SARS Asian nations learnt lessons for the future, now we should do the same.
PPE, border quarantine, masks, care homes, public education, asymptotic transmission, bad models, there is now enough evidence, prima facie, to say that some people and institutions failed on a scale that is criminal.
But yes, it can wait. But yes, it can only wait a year or two. Then we need to string the lynching tree.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Pulled it right out of his arse like all the rest of the shite he spouts.
So what's your estimate for total deaths to date then?
I prefer to go with the official statistics rather than embracing the guesstimates of some bloke off t'Twitter and pronouncing them as gospel.
Does this utter idiocy happen in any other country in the world? Do their 'journalists' compete to extrapolate the worst possible outcome?
No. Only in Britain.
He's using official statistics. Then filling in the gap for the last week and a half. I guess you'd accept 55,000 as official?
No, I accept the internationally-comparable figure used in comparing deaths worldwide, which as of today stands at 35,341.
If it gets updated to 55,000 or higher in due course then so be it, but doing so pre-emptively when no other country follows that standard is ridiculous.
Key bit is on p3: A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
The UK is attempting to conform to this standard (albeit not meeting it). Most other countries are falling far shorter, but some (Ireland, Belgium, France) are doing better than others. The 55k is far closer to the guidelines than the 35k, and the 62k is just an attempt to extrapolate out the reporting delay.
Then please provide equally accurate estimates for the real figures in Italy, France, and Spain, accounting for any reporting delays. And also kindly explain why we should cripple ourselves with the label of the worst death rate in the world when all it may indicate is that we're better at counting than other countries are.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
It depends who you compare him against...
An incompetent might not be as bad as someone even more incompetent.
But that's little cheer to those who still have to work with the incompetent.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
My general rule of thumb is to be skeptical when people talk about being an international joke and embarrassed by the government. For one, because it's rare that I understand why people would feel embarrassment over what is usually pretty standard political issues and I don't know why the prospect upsets people so much (particularly as when it relates to a specific issue the implication is policy should be set by international polling favourability rather than what might work locally), for two because it usually relies on pretending many other places do not have political difficulties or embarrassments, and for three because if it is claimed to be embarrassment 'now' it's usually clear it was something felt long before now.
As it relates to Starmer being PM and how one should regard that prospect we shall see what he is offering in 4 years time, but on a personal political level it doesn't seem like there needs to be that much worry, certainly nto about his general competence, and after 13 years of tumultuous government interspersed with global problems and plenty of self inflicted ones, I imagine there will be a lot of relief should Starmer succeed in overturning a pretty big deficit of seats. But I am also sure that in most cases people are regarded as generally capable and competent when they take over, yet they can still fail miserably. Let us hope that is not the case with him should he succeed.
Sean O'Grady is suffering from an extreme case of Boris Derangement Syndrome. Unless they are physically disabled, Prime Ministers with large majorities don't just decide to give up no matter how difficult the circumstances, especially this early in their terms.
My money is firmly on Johnson resigning before the end of 2022.
He will do a runner before there is any chance of holding him accountable for his handling of the pandemic or the consequences of Brexit.
He dodges accountability during the best of times and we are very far from the best of times right now. He will claim it is for health reasons but really that will be just another in a long line of lies.
It will be sooner if it is his health
Otherwise I expect him to continue in office
If it's found that the government has made a lot of serious mistakes with regard to the handling of the virus he may have no choice but to leave early, even if he wasn't personally responsible.
So what could have done different ?
Restriction on migration, quarantine etc ? Yes but the entire political class seems opposed to that.
An earlier lockdown ? Possibly but only by a few days and there was little to stop people doing so themselves, as indeed many did.
A big push push earlier on testing ? Yes but this was a failure of the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup.
Care homes ? A lack of dynamic leadership from the government but the real responsibility lies with crass decisions at operational levels.
A big early push on PPE ? Possibly but that would go against the globalist mindset dominant in government.
A clearer strategy ? Possibly but this goes back to the scientists and their models.
Messaging - did 'protect the NHS' lead to extra non-covid deaths ? Possibly but would an alternative have been riskier ?
Now what did the government do well on ? Nightingales, ventilators, furloughs and belatedly testing.
I remain convinced that during the last 2 weeks of February when Boris went AWOl at Chevening to sort out his private life, we missed the opportunity to really get on top of what was happening around the world and learn from the mistakes others were making.
Boris did not wake up to the danger early enough and we have been playing catch up ever since and are probably going to end up with about the worst outcome in Europe. This will also knock on to the economic impact because I expect we will be last European nation to properly come out of lockdown.
But what mistakes were other countries known to be doing in February ?
In Italy the first death was on 21/02/20 and that had risen to 29 by the end of February.
In Spain there were no deaths until 08/03/20 and only 81 known cases by the end of February.
So what could the government have done in February ?
Make an effort to get PPE and testing organised better ? Possibly.
Warn people not to leave the country ? Ideally but in reality no government was going to do that.
Organising PPE and testing should have been the domain of the Health Secretary, not the PM.
Indeed.
And in the case of PPE people right down the chain could, and I'm sure did in many cases, look to improve their position.
I don't agree with the 'we need the top man to make all the decisions' line - everyone needs to make decisions and to take responsibility at their appropriate level.
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
There's a scientific one, we lacked the testing capabilities they had. Oh well, we've built it now.
Banging on like a lunatic about bringing people to justice won't bring anyone back from the dead or save lives in the future. After SARS Asian nations learnt lessons for the future, now we should do the same.
PPE, border quarantine, masks, care homes, public education, asymptotic transmission, bad models, there is now enough evidence, prima facie, to say that some people and institutions failed on a scale that is criminal.
But yes, it can wait. But yes, it can only wait a year or two. Then we need to string the lynching tree.
"lynching tree"?
As I said, you sound like a lunatic.
It’s 10.15pm. Past the lagershed.
I am confronted with the bleak and depressing fact that my government, and the scientific establishment it relies upon, is not fit for purpose and has caused tens of thousands of deaths unnecessarily.
Allow me a little black humour. No we should not lynch them. Drive them from public office and put them in jail? Yes.
They've 'caused' the square root of fuck all. Any more than failing to jump in front of an assassin's bullet 'causes' the victim's death.
Pulled it right out of his arse like all the rest of the shite he spouts.
So what's your estimate for total deaths to date then?
I prefer to go with the official statistics rather than embracing the guesstimates of some bloke off t'Twitter and pronouncing them as gospel.
Does this utter idiocy happen in any other country in the world? Do their 'journalists' compete to extrapolate the worst possible outcome?
No. Only in Britain.
He's using official statistics. Then filling in the gap for the last week and a half. I guess you'd accept 55,000 as official?
No, I accept the internationally-comparable figure used in comparing deaths worldwide, which as of today stands at 35,341.
If it gets updated to 55,000 or higher in due course then so be it, but doing so pre-emptively when no other country follows that standard is ridiculous.
Key bit is on p3: A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
The UK is attempting to conform to this standard (albeit not meeting it). Most other countries are falling far shorter, but some (Ireland, Belgium, France) are doing better than others. The 55k is far closer to the guidelines than the 35k, and the 62k is just an attempt to extrapolate out the reporting delay.
Then please provide equally accurate estimates for the real figures in Italy, France, and Spain, accounting for any reporting delays. And also kindly explain why we should cripple ourselves with the label of the worst death rate in the world when all it may indicate is that we're better at counting than other countries are.
Oh, that's almost certainly true. But, three things: 1) Germany. And New Zealand. And Australia (mostly). And all of Eastern Europe. 2) "Not obviously less incompetent than Spain and Italy" is not a defence for our political classes - we should be vastly and obviously less so. 3) People have already done what you suggest, and we don't come out much better.
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
The chance of there not being an inquiry is 0%.
The question is what should be the inquiries remit.
I think the inquiry should investigate what can be learnt for the future, eadric wants to see "groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians" being brought to justice.
Personally one seems more helpful for the future than the other, what do you think?
If we can prosecute British soldiers in Ulster, 30 years after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of half a dozen people, it is only right to prosecute British scientists and politicians, a year after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of THIRTY THOUSAND
You write thirty thousand in capital letters but were banging on only recently that best case baseline was hundreds of thousands.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
There's a scientific one, we lacked the testing capabilities they had. Oh well, we've built it now.
Banging on like a lunatic about bringing people to justice won't bring anyone back from the dead or save lives in the future. After SARS Asian nations learnt lessons for the future, now we should do the same.
PPE, border quarantine, masks, care homes, public education, asymptotic transmission, bad models, there is now enough evidence, prima facie, to say that some people and institutions failed on a scale that is criminal.
But yes, it can wait. But yes, it can only wait a year or two. Then we need to string the lynching tree.
Our underlying problem is that we're not as good as we think we are.
And this is perhaps magnified the further up the leadership ladder you go culminating in our smug, self-satisfied Sir Humphreys and our politicians with their inability to do proper preparation and inattention to detail.
Now here's a trivial solution - nobody should get a knighthood until they retire and only then if their record shows they have been earned by presiding over success.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
The BBC is hoping to bring back BBC Three as a regular TV channel, four years after it was taken off air and moved online.
I think it would be very funny to see BBC Three brought back and BBC Four scrapped, only for the howls of outrage from some.
I really don't get the thinking. These days basically every tv is a smart tv, so you can install iPlayer (and if not you can get a firestick or all the other options for peanuts). The idea of channels is so last decade.
Plus, da yuff don't watch traditional telly. They watch YouTube and then some streaming stuff.
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
Of course it should, but let's all be real here, an awful lot of the time a lot of the noise generated around an inquiry is from sides who have already made up their minds and that is no secret.
It should be about figuring out what happened, why, lessons to be learned and, quite possibly, who or what is to blame as part of that. But for many, probably most, it is about apportioning blame, and usually they already 'know' who that is.
And while it is true that scope of an inquiry or membership could be misused in some dastardly coverup, the countering unreasonableness is when the whole process is overtaken by groups with closed minds not interested in inquiring, just blame, who attack from the start on membership, involvement by people or groups in what may be an unreasonable manner for the purpose, and so much more. There will be endless sermonising and talk of victims, demands for immediate answers and blame. It will be massively unedifying.
There will be some very useful stuff to come out of the very necessary (and I expect multiple) enquiries that will come from this. But I suspect it will be outweighed by confected outrage or histrionic defensiveness to a considerable degree.
The BBC is hoping to bring back BBC Three as a regular TV channel, four years after it was taken off air and moved online.
BBC Three has delivered some very good programmes.
I never quite understood why it went on-line only but now that more and more is moving to streaming it seems a perverse move to bring it back on air.
It was because it was watched by bugger all people. There might have a few hit shows, but not enough content to maintain any sort of audience for hours a day (and remember it was only on for 5-6hrs a day). And their target demographic didn't watch it.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
I finished the last dance today. Man what an absolute bunch of aresholes, they literally fell out, hated or had no respect for everybody else in the game.
The only really stand up guy who came out of that documentary was Steve Kerr, who Jordan beat up, because the coach gave fouls against Jordan in training.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
A pariah? Get a grip man!
It's always pariah in these examples. Why not just call us the lepers of Europe, or vagabonds or something.
Pulled it right out of his arse like all the rest of the shite he spouts.
So what's your estimate for total deaths to date then?
I prefer to go with the official statistics rather than embracing the guesstimates of some bloke off t'Twitter and pronouncing them as gospel.
Does this utter idiocy happen in any other country in the world? Do their 'journalists' compete to extrapolate the worst possible outcome?
No. Only in Britain.
He's using official statistics. Then filling in the gap for the last week and a half. I guess you'd accept 55,000 as official?
No, I accept the internationally-comparable figure used in comparing deaths worldwide, which as of today stands at 35,341.
If it gets updated to 55,000 or higher in due course then so be it, but doing so pre-emptively when no other country follows that standard is ridiculous.
Key bit is on p3: A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
The UK is attempting to conform to this standard (albeit not meeting it). Most other countries are falling far shorter, but some (Ireland, Belgium, France) are doing better than others. The 55k is far closer to the guidelines than the 35k, and the 62k is just an attempt to extrapolate out the reporting delay.
Then please provide equally accurate estimates for the real figures in Italy, France, and Spain, accounting for any reporting delays. And also kindly explain why we should cripple ourselves with the label of the worst death rate in the world when all it may indicate is that we're better at counting than other countries are.
Oh, that's almost certainly true. But, three things: 1) Germany. And New Zealand. And Australia (mostly). And all of Eastern Europe. 2) "Not obviously less incompetent than Spain and Italy" is not a defence for our political classes - we should be vastly and obviously less so. 3) People have already done what you suggest, and we don't come out much better.
Well, on your points:
(1) New Zealand has a population density barely double that of the Scottish Highlands, so they are not a valid comparandum. And much though I love Eastern Europe, they are hardly international travel hubs and thus recipients of transmission vectors the way we are. Of the five large countries in Western Europe, Germany is the only genuine exception - the UK, France, Spain, and Italy are much of a muchness.
(2) I'd love us to be, but we're not. Given how un-good we are, I see no reason to make our relative position look much worse than it is.
(3) As (2). If we're going to quote 55-62K for the UK, that data MUST be accompanied by directly comparable figures for our Western European neighbours.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
Of course it should, but let's all be real here, an awful lot of the time a lot of the noise generated around an inquiry is from sides who have already made up their minds and that is no secret.
It should be about figuring out what happened, why, lessons to be learned and, quite possibly, who or what is to blame as part of that. But for many, probably most, it is about apportioning blame, and usually they already 'know' who that is.
And while it is true that scope of an inquiry or membership could be misused in some dastardly coverup, the countering unreasonableness is when the whole process is overtaken by groups with closed minds not interested in inquiring, just blame, who attack from the start on membership, involvement by people or groups in what may be an unreasonable manner for the purpose, and so much more. There will be endless sermonising and talk of victims, demands for immediate answers and blame. It will be massively unedifying.
There will be some very useful stuff to come out of the very necessary (and I expect multiple) enquiries that will come from this. But I suspect it will be outweighed by confected outrage or histrionic defensiveness to a considerable degree.
There is still so much that we don’t know about this disease, the latest one being why some people are super spreaders. A better understanding of it and ways to treat it or vaccinate against it are far more important points than what someone did in good faith in the early stages of the outbreak of a brand new and very odd disease.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
Why would Brexit make me feel sad? Why would it make anyone feel sad?
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
Sean O'Grady is suffering from an extreme case of Boris Derangement Syndrome. Unless they are physically disabled, Prime Ministers with large majorities don't just decide to give up no matter how difficult the circumstances, especially this early in their terms.
My money is firmly on Johnson resigning before the end of 2022.
He will do a runner before there is any chance of holding him accountable for his handling of the pandemic or the consequences of Brexit.
He dodges accountability during the best of times and we are very far from the best of times right now. He will claim it is for health reasons but really that will be just another in a long line of lies.
It will be sooner if it is his health
Otherwise I expect him to continue in office
If it's found that the government has made a lot of serious mistakes with regard to the handling of the virus he may have no choice but to leave early, even if he wasn't personally responsible.
So what could have done different ?
Restriction on migration, quarantine etc ? Yes but the entire political class seems opposed to that.
An earlier lockdown ? Possibly but only by a few days and there was little to stop people doing so themselves, as indeed many did.
A big push push earlier on testing ? Yes but this was a failure of the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup.
Care homes ? A lack of dynamic leadership from the government but the real responsibility lies with crass decisions at operational levels.
A big early push on PPE ? Possibly but that would go against the globalist mindset dominant in government.
A clearer strategy ? Possibly but this goes back to the scientists and their models.
Messaging - did 'protect the NHS' lead to extra non-covid deaths ? Possibly but would an alternative have been riskier ?
Now what did the government do well on ? Nightingales, ventilators, furloughs and belatedly testing.
I remain convinced that during the last 2 weeks of February when Boris went AWOl at Chevening to sort out his private life, we missed the opportunity to really get on top of what was happening around the world and learn from the mistakes others were making.
Boris did not wake up to the danger early enough and we have been playing catch up ever since and are probably going to end up with about the worst outcome in Europe. This will also knock on to the economic impact because I expect we will be last European nation to properly come out of lockdown.
Boris needs to ditch Dominic Cummings. The paradox is that Boris needs Cummings.
Boris and Cummings centralised power at Number 10 to a dangerous extent, building on the work of Thatcher and Blair. This meant that when Boris and Cummings (and, we have since learned, also the Cabinet Secretary, Mark Sedwill) became ill, the government was rudderless.
But that is was temporary. This is permanent: Boris is temperamentally unsuited to be dictator. Boris needs to be Primus Inter Pares, chairing a Cabinet of departmental ministers running their own shows. Even if Boris had the time, he has not the inclination to study and master cross-Whitehall briefs.
Cummings might have the inclination but has no political authority and is probably out of his depth anyway. Even if Cummings is right about the Civil Service's institutional failings, now is plainly not the time to reform it.
Boris needs to return authority to his Cabinet. If ministers are not up to it, let them be replaced. That might not be easy given his Stalinist purge of experienced MPs but only a partisan fool would deny the possibility of talent on the Conservative benches. It would also solve Boris's PMQs woes as he could return to the traditional practice of passing departmental questions on to the relevant Secretaries of State. Boris needs to be more like Churchill and less like Thatcher, and he can start by showing Cummings the door, or better still, setting Lord Cummings to chair a Royal Commission into getting it right next time.
Agree re Cummings.
The problem is he chose a Cabinet of No Deal Brexit Yes men because all that mattered was having a government that wasn't going to nod through leaving the transition period in December without an EU trade deal. Sadly the pool of talent that fitted that criteria was very shallow indeed.
As you say he purged many more experienced and talented MPs to the back benches and of course many had already left the Conservative Party before December.
The result is a lightweight and inexperienced Cabinet that is clearly out of its depth.
"Carol Kirkwood has sent the "biggest thanks ever" to the police, ambulance and hospital staff who helped her after she was knocked off her bike by a car."
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Pulled it right out of his arse like all the rest of the shite he spouts.
So what's your estimate for total deaths to date then?
I prefer to go with the official statistics rather than embracing the guesstimates of some bloke off t'Twitter and pronouncing them as gospel.
Does this utter idiocy happen in any other country in the world? Do their 'journalists' compete to extrapolate the worst possible outcome?
No. Only in Britain.
He's using official statistics. Then filling in the gap for the last week and a half. I guess you'd accept 55,000 as official?
No, I accept the internationally-comparable figure used in comparing deaths worldwide, which as of today stands at 35,341.
If it gets updated to 55,000 or higher in due course then so be it, but doing so pre-emptively when no other country follows that standard is ridiculous.
Key bit is on p3: A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
The UK is attempting to conform to this standard (albeit not meeting it). Most other countries are falling far shorter, but some (Ireland, Belgium, France) are doing better than others. The 55k is far closer to the guidelines than the 35k, and the 62k is just an attempt to extrapolate out the reporting delay.
Then please provide equally accurate estimates for the real figures in Italy, France, and Spain, accounting for any reporting delays. And also kindly explain why we should cripple ourselves with the label of the worst death rate in the world when all it may indicate is that we're better at counting than other countries are.
Oh, that's almost certainly true. But, three things: 1) Germany. And New Zealand. And Australia (mostly). And all of Eastern Europe. 2) "Not obviously less incompetent than Spain and Italy" is not a defence for our political classes - we should be vastly and obviously less so. 3) People have already done what you suggest, and we don't come out much better.
Well, on your points:
(1) New Zealand has a population density barely double that of the Scottish Highlands, so they are not a valid comparandum. And much though I love Eastern Europe, they are hardly international travel hubs and thus recipients of transmission vectors the way we are. Of the five large countries in Western Europe, Germany is the only genuine exception - the UK, France, Spain, and Italy are much of a muchness.
(2) I'd love us to be, but we're not. Given how un-good we are, I see no reason to make our relative position look much worse than it is.
(3) As (2). If we're going to quote 55-62K for the UK, that data MUST be accompanied by directly comparable figures for our Western European neighbours.
2) is the key one, I think, with a bit of 3). I'd much prefer to assess our performance in absolute terms against what was, in retrospect, possible (as evidenced by Germany - New Zealand is a useful case (albeit, I agree, not directly comparable) because they're an island nation and used that fact to good effect). If I've got an exam, I still revise for it even if I know that almost everyone else taking it will muck around and the pass mark will therefore be moderated downwards.
I am glad that you've stopped denying the existence of underreporting and reporting delays, however.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
Why would Brexit make me feel sad? Why would it make anyone feel sad?
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
Brexit quoted as an example of how "we can resolve our differences" Lol!
We may have a totally shite government but at least irony is not dead.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
If you want an enquiry to be useful, then don't look for blame, look for how things could have been done better.
Its never going to be like that though. It will either be a whitewash or an indictment, depending whether done by this government or the next. Political enquiries are just weapons, nothing more.
Pick for Britain really is redolent of one of those old Maoist 5-year plans isn't it?
No.
It is a practical answer to an urgent need
Says the man who was so keen to get Brexit done.
Tad unfair. BigG regularly criticises Boris and members of the Cabinet where justified unlike some of the PB Tories. Unfortunately Labour having Corbyn as leader resulted in a number of people voting for Boris who has doubts about his suitability but still saw him as a better bet than JC.
Jeremy Corbyn was not standing to be leader of the Conservative Party when its members elected Boris to be Prime Minister.
My ambiguity. What I meant was that many people voted for Boris last December, despite knowing his unsuitability for the job, simply because they felt a Corbyn government would be worse.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
A pariah? Get a grip man!
It's always pariah in these examples. Why not just call us the lepers of Europe, or vagabonds or something.
Can we not go with something that befits these downbeat times, the trifling wankers of Europe say?
Sean O'Grady is suffering from an extreme case of Boris Derangement Syndrome. Unless they are physically disabled, Prime Ministers with large majorities don't just decide to give up no matter how difficult the circumstances, especially this early in their terms.
My money is firmly on Johnson resigning before the end of 2022.
He will do a runner before there is any chance of holding him accountable for his handling of the pandemic or the consequences of Brexit.
He dodges accountability during the best of times and we are very far from the best of times right now. He will claim it is for health reasons but really that will be just another in a long line of lies.
It will be sooner if it is his health
Otherwise I expect him to continue in office
If it's found that the government has made a lot of serious mistakes with regard to the handling of the virus he may have no choice but to leave early, even if he wasn't personally responsible.
So what could have done different ?
Restriction on migration, quarantine etc ? Yes but the entire political class seems opposed to that.
An earlier lockdown ? Possibly but only by a few days and there was little to stop people doing so themselves, as indeed many did.
A big push push earlier on testing ? Yes but this was a failure of the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup.
Care homes ? A lack of dynamic leadership from the government but the real responsibility lies with crass decisions at operational levels.
A big early push on PPE ? Possibly but that would go against the globalist mindset dominant in government.
A clearer strategy ? Possibly but this goes back to the scientists and their models.
Messaging - did 'protect the NHS' lead to extra non-covid deaths ? Possibly but would an alternative have been riskier ?
Now what did the government do well on ? Nightingales, ventilators, furloughs and belatedly testing.
I remain convinced that during the last 2 weeks of February when Boris went AWOl at Chevening to sort out his private life, we missed the opportunity to really get on top of what was happening around the world and learn from the mistakes others were making.
Boris did not wake up to the danger early enough and we have been playing catch up ever since and are probably going to end up with about the worst outcome in Europe. This will also knock on to the economic impact because I expect we will be last European nation to properly come out of lockdown.
But what mistakes were other countries known to be doing in February ?
In Italy the first death was on 21/02/20 and that had risen to 29 by the end of February.
In Spain there were no deaths until 08/03/20 and only 81 known cases by the end of February.
So what could the government have done in February ?
Make an effort to get PPE and testing organised better ? Possibly.
Warn people not to leave the country ? Ideally but in reality no government was going to do that.
Not dithering around with a herd immunity strategy for the first week once they did start to get their finger out might have been a start.
At the end of the day we were not in the vanguard of infection in Europe and if, despite that, we end up with about the worst performance in Europe who else do you blame if not the government?
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
If you want an enquiry to be useful, then don't look for blame, look for how things could have been done better.
Its never going to be like that though. It will either be a whitewash or an indictment, depending whether done by this government or the next. Political enquiries are just weapons, nothing more.
What happened to the Russia inquiry?
I wouldn't invest in a CV19 inquiry going anywhere.
Pick for Britain really is redolent of one of those old Maoist 5-year plans isn't it?
No.
It is a practical answer to an urgent need
Says the man who was so keen to get Brexit done.
Tad unfair. BigG regularly criticises Boris and members of the Cabinet where justified unlike some of the PB Tories. Unfortunately Labour having Corbyn as leader resulted in a number of people voting for Boris who has doubts about his suitability but still saw him as a better bet than JC.
Jeremy Corbyn was not standing to be leader of the Conservative Party when its members elected Boris to be Prime Minister.
My ambiguity. What I meant was that many people voted for Boris last December, despite knowing his unsuitability for the job, simply because they felt a Corbyn government would be worse.
I get PTSD thinking about what beset the Labour Party these last years. Murray, Murphy, Milne, McCluskey, Burgon et al...they were not fit to be in Govt....
I still cannot forgive people like NickP who supported JC....it'll take some time (if ever)....they seriously fucked up the cause of left wing politics for a decade at least....
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
The chance of there not being an inquiry is 0%.
The question is what should be the inquiries remit.
I think the inquiry should investigate what can be learnt for the future, eadric wants to see "groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians" being brought to justice.
Personally one seems more helpful for the future than the other, what do you think?
If we can prosecute British soldiers in Ulster, 30 years after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of half a dozen people, it is only right to prosecute British scientists and politicians, a year after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of THIRTY THOUSAND
You write thirty thousand in capital letters but were banging on only recently that best case baseline was hundreds of thousands.
Find me the quote where I said the “best case baseline” was “hundreds of thousands” of British dead, or, with all due respect, shut the F up
While you haven't said "base case" or "baseline" (those are hardly the kind of rhetorical flourish you enjoy...), you have certainly mused about the possibility that many could die.
If you want an enquiry to be useful, then don't look for blame, look for how things could have been done better.
Its never going to be like that though. It will either be a whitewash or an indictment, depending whether done by this government or the next. Political enquiries are just weapons, nothing more.
What happened to the Russia inquiry?
I wouldn't invest in a CV19 inquiry going anywhere.
I think you are Dr Fox are saying the same thing....
If you want an enquiry to be useful, then don't look for blame, look for how things could have been done better.
Its never going to be like that though. It will either be a whitewash or an indictment, depending whether done by this government or the next. Political enquiries are just weapons, nothing more.
What happened to the Russia inquiry?
I wouldn't invest in a CV19 inquiry going anywhere.
Once in a lifetime pandemic? Yeah, there's going to be a public inquiry.
Gloriously sunburned from a walk in the Welsh hills. Finishing off a frankly kick-arse memoir. Drunk as a lunk on fine Puglia red. The sun sets behind the Black Mountains. Unlockdown looms.
There have, to be honest, been worse times. I may have to finish off with the St Henri 2005
Why did you decide on Penarth as a place to stay during the lockdown?
You really want to know? It is related to covid. But it may come across as boasting*
*which I obviously hate
My only visit to Penarth station was on 4th June 2018.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
Why would Brexit make me feel sad? Why would it make anyone feel sad?
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
A country going in a direction one doesn't like is not an unreasonable, er, reason for sadness. I'm sure we've all regreted our country going in certain ways sometimes so I'm not surprised certain ones really hit people deeply. But I do think there's a tendency to overdo it, particular when making comparisons with idealised versions of other places, and overegging the impact of democratic policy decisions on international perceptions of a country and how much that should affect us.
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
The chance of there not being an inquiry is 0%.
The question is what should be the inquiries remit.
I think the inquiry should investigate what can be learnt for the future, eadric wants to see "groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians" being brought to justice.
Personally one seems more helpful for the future than the other, what do you think?
If we can prosecute British soldiers in Ulster, 30 years after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of half a dozen people, it is only right to prosecute British scientists and politicians, a year after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of THIRTY THOUSAND
Ummm.
Didn't the British soldiers commit a crime?
People die as a result of other peoples' stupidity or carelessness all the time. They don't end up in prison, because stupidity is not a criminal offence.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
Thats the thing about Brexitism, it is so driven by hate, not just of foreigners but also of much of modern Britain. Nothing good can come of it.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
A pariah? Get a grip man!
It's always pariah in these examples. Why not just call us the lepers of Europe, or vagabonds or something.
Can we not go with something that befits these downbeat times, the trifling wankers of Europe say?
I think the scale of the UK within Europe makes 'trifling' unlikely. It's a significant part of the continent, even if one thinks it is not as significant we might like. It's like those silly comments that the EU doesn't care what we do anymore, as though the EU is foolish enough to have no care what happens on its doorstep by a very large nation.
But variety alone would make it more compelling a label.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
Why would Brexit make me feel sad? Why would it make anyone feel sad?
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
Brexit quoted as an example of how "we can resolve our differences" Lol!
We may have a totally shite government but at least irony is not dead.
Absolutely it's a prime example of resolving our differences democratically. Europe has plagued our politics for my entire lifetime and now it's being resolved democratically with not just a referendum but also no fewer than three General Elections in the last few years.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
Thats the thing about Brexitism, it is so driven by hate, not just of foreigners but also of much of modern Britain. Nothing good can come of it.
Remainers still refusing to believe why most people voted Leave
This feels like wishful thinking. Boris has the Tories at over 50%, he has a huge majority, he is credited with winning a victory the Tories thought they would never have again, and his recovery from COVID gives him huge personal sympathy for the public. Plus the worse that you can say about the COVID response is he didn't question the scientific advice enough.
Oh, and the major danger to him - recession from No Deal Brexit - is going to have its effects hidden in the COVID recession.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
I think whatever was stirring, it wasn't Elgar.
Ah yes, Mr. All-Nationalism-Is-Evil-Unless-It's-My-Nationalism...
The BBC is hoping to bring back BBC Three as a regular TV channel, four years after it was taken off air and moved online.
BBC Three has delivered some very good programmes.
I never quite understood why it went on-line only but now that more and more is moving to streaming it seems a perverse move to bring it back on air.
What very good programmes?
The only good one I can think of is Two Pints of Lager - and that was decades ago and its not of a quality that justifies a telly poll tax.
I don't watch its programmes as a rule but someone told me I should watch 'In My Skin' recently and it was very good. BBC3 is targeted at people about thirty years younger than me but, if the rest of their programming is as good, they should publicise it to older age groups as well.
It seems some people are almost salivating at the prospect of an inquiry as an opportunity to apportion blame.
An inquiry should surely happen but the priority should be to learn lessons for next time, if there's a next time, more than finding a scapegoat to blame.
No. This is the greatest public health error in a century. Is there any overwhelming economic/political reason we could not have handled this as well as Germany? No.
60,000 have died and maybe 100,000 will die eventually. Or more. And it looks very much like many equally advanced, forewarned nations will do a lot better
There has to be an inquiry. We spend a trillion quid on the Bloody Sunday inquiry, FFS, and this is several orders of magnitude more important.
My guess is that it will find groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians equally to blame, but of course I don’t know. I will not prejudge. But an inquiry there must be and the guilty, if there are any, must be brought to justice.
The chance of there not being an inquiry is 0%.
The question is what should be the inquiries remit.
I think the inquiry should investigate what can be learnt for the future, eadric wants to see "groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians" being brought to justice.
Personally one seems more helpful for the future than the other, what do you think?
If we can prosecute British soldiers in Ulster, 30 years after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of half a dozen people, it is only right to prosecute British scientists and politicians, a year after the event, following an inquiry, for the mistakes that led to the deaths of THIRTY THOUSAND
Ummm.
Didn't the British soldiers commit a crime?
People die as a result of other peoples' stupidity or carelessness all the time. They don't end up in prison, because stupidity is not a criminal offence.
The Great Heck train crash would imply otherwise.
Stupidity leads to a criminal offence leading to prison time.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
OK let's have a bet, what price will you give me the Conservatives are leading in the polls 31.12.20?
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
Thats the thing about Brexitism, it is so driven by hate, not just of foreigners but also of much of modern Britain. Nothing good can come of it.
Only one party was found guilty of hating Britain recently, and it was duly obliterated by the electorate...
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
Why would Brexit make me feel sad? Why would it make anyone feel sad?
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
Brexit quoted as an example of how "we can resolve our differences" Lol!
We may have a totally shite government but at least irony is not dead.
Absolutely it's a prime example of resolving our differences democratically. Europe has plagued our politics for my entire lifetime and now it's being resolved democratically with not just a referendum but also no fewer than three General Elections in the last few years.
Speak for yourself....Europe has plagued the Tory Party....but they managed to inflict their horrible conflict on the rest of us....
I hate the Tories Brexiteers more than the Corbynites....both are ideologues who should have not been allowed anywhere near anything other than holding their dicks taking a piss....
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
Why would Brexit make me feel sad? Why would it make anyone feel sad?
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
Brexit quoted as an example of how "we can resolve our differences" Lol!
We may have a totally shite government but at least irony is not dead.
Absolutely it's a prime example of resolving our differences democratically. Europe has plagued our politics for my entire lifetime and now it's being resolved democratically with not just a referendum but also no fewer than three General Elections in the last few years.
I think you may misunderstand the meaning of the word "resolved".
Gloriously sunburned from a walk in the Welsh hills. Finishing off a frankly kick-arse memoir. Drunk as a lunk on fine Puglia red. The sun sets behind the Black Mountains. Unlockdown looms.
There have, to be honest, been worse times. I may have to finish off with the St Henri 2005
Why did you decide on Penarth as a place to stay during the lockdown?
You really want to know? It is related to covid. But it may come across as boasting*
*which I obviously hate
My only visit to Penarth station was on 4th June 2018.
I know what I did on that day. I was not in Penarth.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
Thats the thing about Brexitism, it is so driven by hate, not just of foreigners but also of much of modern Britain. Nothing good can come of it.
Remainers still refusing to believe why most people voted Leave
and Leavers refuse to believe what Remainers think Brexit says about us as a nation. Just accept the nation is split in 2 and will remain so.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
OK let's have a bet, what price will you give me the Conservatives are leading in the polls 31.12.20?
Sean O'Grady is suffering from an extreme case of Boris Derangement Syndrome. Unless they are physically disabled, Prime Ministers with large majorities don't just decide to give up no matter how difficult the circumstances, especially this early in their terms.
My money is firmly on Johnson resigning before the end of 2022.
He will do a runner before there is any chance of holding him accountable for his handling of the pandemic or the consequences of Brexit.
He dodges accountability during the best of times and we are very far from the best of times right now. He will claim it is for health reasons but really that will be just another in a long line of lies.
It will be sooner if it is his health
Otherwise I expect him to continue in office
If it's found that the government has made a lot of serious mistakes with regard to the handling of the virus he may have no choice but to leave early, even if he wasn't personally responsible.
So what could have done different ?
Restriction on migration, quarantine etc ? Yes but the entire political class seems opposed to that.
An earlier lockdown ? Possibly but only by a few days and there was little to stop people doing so themselves, as indeed many did.
A big push push earlier on testing ? Yes but this was a failure of the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup.
Care homes ? A lack of dynamic leadership from the government but the real responsibility lies with crass decisions at operational levels.
A big early push on PPE ? Possibly but that would go against the globalist mindset dominant in government.
A clearer strategy ? Possibly but this goes back to the scientists and their models.
Messaging - did 'protect the NHS' lead to extra non-covid deaths ? Possibly but would an alternative have been riskier ?
Now what did the government do well on ? Nightingales, ventilators, furloughs and belatedly testing.
I remain convinced that during the last 2 weeks of February when Boris went AWOl at Chevening to sort out his private life, we missed the opportunity to really get on top of what was happening around the world and learn from the mistakes others were making.
Boris did not wake up to the danger early enough and we have been playing catch up ever since and are probably going to end up with about the worst outcome in Europe. This will also knock on to the economic impact because I expect we will be last European nation to properly come out of lockdown.
But what mistakes were other countries known to be doing in February ?
In Italy the first death was on 21/02/20 and that had risen to 29 by the end of February.
In Spain there were no deaths until 08/03/20 and only 81 known cases by the end of February.
So what could the government have done in February ?
Make an effort to get PPE and testing organised better ? Possibly.
Warn people not to leave the country ? Ideally but in reality no government was going to do that.
Not dithering around with a herd immunity strategy for the first week once they did start to get their finger out might have been a start.
At the end of the day we were not in the vanguard of infection in Europe and if, despite that, we end up with about the worst performance in Europe who else do you blame if not the government?
Wasn't the herd immunity strategy initially advocated by the scientists ?
If we want to start discussing blame then the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup deserves much of it for their operational fuckups.
Or more generally our globalist establishment, which does include our government, which saw no problem with the UK being dependent upon imported PPE and for whom restrictions on international travel was anathema.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
Thats the thing about Brexitism, it is so driven by hate, not just of foreigners but also of much of modern Britain. Nothing good can come of it.
Remainers still refusing to believe why most people voted Leave
and Leavers refuse to believe what Remainers thinks Brexit says about us as a nation.
I know exactly what they think, that it was a terrible mistake. I campaigned to Leave, I don't hate foreigners, in fact I don't hate anybody.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
I think whatever was stirring, it wasn't Elgar.
Ah yes, Mr. All-Nationalism-Is-Evil-Unless-It's-My-Nationalism...
I don't think getting a stauner over your fleg is evil, just a bit weird. Quite a lot weird actually, but whatever.
Gloriously sunburned from a walk in the Welsh hills. Finishing off a frankly kick-arse memoir. Drunk as a lunk on fine Puglia red. The sun sets behind the Black Mountains. Unlockdown looms.
There have, to be honest, been worse times. I may have to finish off with the St Henri 2005
Why did you decide on Penarth as a place to stay during the lockdown?
You really want to know? It is related to covid. But it may come across as boasting*
*which I obviously hate
My only visit to Penarth station was on 4th June 2018.
Curious to know how the sun is setting behind the Black Mountains when you are in Penarth.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
Given the open goals he has missed I need some convincing about Starmer's 'competence'.
Starmer is in for the marathon.....he sat in Corbyn's table for 3 years or so...and that must have been excruciating for someone of his talent....
Starmer is the best of the best... Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
Someone of 'his talent' who keeps missing open goals.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
I agree with you....mostly....
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
Reading your posts reminds me why bookmakers make money, most punters bet on what they'd like to happen.
I predict a stable crossover in the polls by the end of the year......
OK let's have a bet, what price will you give me the Conservatives are leading in the polls 31.12.20?
100....evens.....
send me a note on the vanilla thing
Evens? You don't sound very confident about your prediction.
Gloriously sunburned from a walk in the Welsh hills. Finishing off a frankly kick-arse memoir. Drunk as a lunk on fine Puglia red. The sun sets behind the Black Mountains. Unlockdown looms.
There have, to be honest, been worse times. I may have to finish off with the St Henri 2005
Why did you decide on Penarth as a place to stay during the lockdown?
You really want to know? It is related to covid. But it may come across as boasting*
*which I obviously hate
My only visit to Penarth station was on 4th June 2018.
I know what I did on that day. I was not in Penarth.
I think you'll find that Keir is the real deal...he survived the utter cataclysm that befell the Labour Party under Corbyn (I still get PTSD thinking of Corbyn as my leader).....
A quick tip.....I think even the bluest blue in 5 years time will be relieved that we have someone of Keir's competence and stature as PM after such a shocking period of government in the UK...
I am embarrassed by my Govt now in the UK....we are an international joke and laughing stock.
No, Donald Trump is an international joke and laughing stock.
Britain is just a normal country with a normal government. Its not as special as you make out.
I get bombarded by articles and references from Italian friends and family....one is a close relative of Fanfani...hardly a diehard lefty
But no doubt they know you are a diehard lefty.
No...he doesn't actually....I think Fanfani was a 4 time Italian PM, and he's someone I don't do politics with.....
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
I think you're talking bullshit personally, and since you're a Brit in Italy who loves to talk down Britain its hardly surprising people share anti-British stuff they see with you. Doesn't mean squat and says more about you than anything else.
I'm in Oxford.........
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
'With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?'
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel that comment should have a union jack fluttering in the background, and something stirring, perhaps a bit of Elgar, on the soundtrack. Mindless, unquestioning patriotism isn't my thing, personally. If you love something, you should want it to be better. It's sad to see the country being so comprehensively trashed by this incompetent, malignant gang of fools.
Thats the thing about Brexitism, it is so driven by hate, not just of foreigners but also of much of modern Britain. Nothing good can come of it.
Remainers still refusing to believe why most people voted Leave
and Leavers refuse to believe what Remainers thinks Brexit says about us as a nation.
I know exactly what they think, that it was a terrible mistake. I campaigned to Leave, I don't hate foreigners, in fact I don't hate anybody.
Comments
https://www.who.int/classifications/icd/Guidelines_Cause_of_Death_COVID-19.pdf
Key bit is on p3:
A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
The UK is attempting to conform to this standard (albeit not meeting it). Most other countries are falling far shorter, but some (Ireland, Belgium, France) are doing better than others. The 55k is far closer to the guidelines than the 35k, and the 62k is just an attempt to extrapolate out the reporting delay.
I think the inquiry should investigate what can be learnt for the future, eadric wants to see "groupthinking scientists and credulous politicians" being brought to justice.
Personally one seems more helpful for the future than the other, what do you think?
Seriously, is anyone taken in by the sort of stuff that they are spewing out at the moment? That their 'gotchas' are staff making demands regarding safety and on kids being grubby (come on, who thinks they aren't?) is pretty funny really.
This affair has really brought home just what scum they are. All for their ideology at the expense of children, parents and staff safety. They should be telling the government to treat schools the same as anywhere else, not as second class, when it comes to safety and that they should follow what other countries are actually doing not attempting a market stall knock off policy that tries to do half the job on the cheap.
As I said, you sound like a lunatic.
Starmer is the best of the best...
Rushi is promising....and Hunt is solid...so perhaps all is not lost for the Tories to find a capable someone to replace Johnson when he is shoved or pushed....
But that's little cheer to those who still have to work with the incompetent.
As it relates to Starmer being PM and how one should regard that prospect we shall see what he is offering in 4 years time, but on a personal political level it doesn't seem like there needs to be that much worry, certainly nto about his general competence, and after 13 years of tumultuous government interspersed with global problems and plenty of self inflicted ones, I imagine there will be a lot of relief should Starmer succeed in overturning a pretty big deficit of seats. But I am also sure that in most cases people are regarded as generally capable and competent when they take over, yet they can still fail miserably. Let us hope that is not the case with him should he succeed.
And in the case of PPE people right down the chain could, and I'm sure did in many cases, look to improve their position.
I don't agree with the 'we need the top man to make all the decisions' line - everyone needs to make decisions and to take responsibility at their appropriate level.
1) Germany. And New Zealand. And Australia (mostly). And all of Eastern Europe.
2) "Not obviously less incompetent than Spain and Italy" is not a defence for our political classes - we should be vastly and obviously less so.
3) People have already done what you suggest, and we don't come out much better.
My wife's cousin is a regional police chief...and loves Salvini...and he sends us stuff from Italy that ridicules the UK....
Brexit made us a pariah.....but Covid has just made us look pathetic in a sad way....
the UK...the sick man of Europe....thank you
And this is perhaps magnified the further up the leadership ladder you go culminating in our smug, self-satisfied Sir Humphreys and our politicians with their inability to do proper preparation and inattention to detail.
Now here's a trivial solution - nobody should get a knighthood until they retire and only then if their record shows they have been earned by presiding over success.
I never quite understood why it went on-line only but now that more and more is moving to streaming it seems a perverse move to bring it back on air.
Plus, da yuff don't watch traditional telly. They watch YouTube and then some streaming stuff.
The only good one I can think of is Two Pints of Lager - and that was decades ago and its not of a quality that justifies a telly poll tax.
It should be about figuring out what happened, why, lessons to be learned and, quite possibly, who or what is to blame as part of that. But for many, probably most, it is about apportioning blame, and usually they already 'know' who that is.
And while it is true that scope of an inquiry or membership could be misused in some dastardly coverup, the countering unreasonableness is when the whole process is overtaken by groups with closed minds not interested in inquiring, just blame, who attack from the start on membership, involvement by people or groups in what may be an unreasonable manner for the purpose, and so much more. There will be endless sermonising and talk of victims, demands for immediate answers and blame. It will be massively unedifying.
There will be some very useful stuff to come out of the very necessary (and I expect multiple) enquiries that will come from this. But I suspect it will be outweighed by confected outrage or histrionic defensiveness to a considerable degree.
https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1262858328193077255?s=21
With Brexit...and now our Covid response.....how could you not feel anything other than sadness for what has happened to the UK?
Granted...the US have Trump and Brazil have dickwad.....
But....we have the worst Govt in mainstream Europe and everyone knows it
The only really stand up guy who came out of that documentary was Steve Kerr, who Jordan beat up, because the coach gave fouls against Jordan in training.
(1) New Zealand has a population density barely double that of the Scottish Highlands, so they are not a valid comparandum. And much though I love Eastern Europe, they are hardly international travel hubs and thus recipients of transmission vectors the way we are. Of the five large countries in Western Europe, Germany is the only genuine exception - the UK, France, Spain, and Italy are much of a muchness.
(2) I'd love us to be, but we're not. Given how un-good we are, I see no reason to make our relative position look much worse than it is.
(3) As (2). If we're going to quote 55-62K for the UK, that data MUST be accompanied by directly comparable figures for our Western European neighbours.
Here's some well meant advice - don't become a politician's fanboy, they are never as good as you think they are.
Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a democratic decision or some fucking virus to reduce the pride I feel in my country by a micron, that's how.
I feel proud of my country that we can resolve our differences freely and democratically like we have with Brexit.
The problem is he chose a Cabinet of No Deal Brexit Yes men because all that mattered was having a government that wasn't going to nod through leaving the transition period in December without an EU trade deal. Sadly the pool of talent that fitted that criteria was very shallow indeed.
As you say he purged many more experienced and talented MPs to the back benches and of course many had already left the Conservative Party before December.
The result is a lightweight and inexperienced Cabinet that is clearly out of its depth.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52720147
What turned me towards Keir wasn't his backstory, the fact that he is a working class lad who rose to the top of his profession that is dominated by public schools, or the fact that he has championed social justice.....
It was the fact that he suffered Corbyn...survived and landslided a leadership election within a left infiltrated Labour Party that had almost become irrelevant.....
The next step....getting rid of this ramshackle Govt looks to be easy pickings by comparison....
I am glad that you've stopped denying the existence of underreporting and reporting delays, however.
We may have a totally shite government but at least irony is not dead.
Its never going to be like that though. It will either be a whitewash or an indictment, depending whether done by this government or the next. Political enquiries are just weapons, nothing more.
My ambiguity. What I meant was that many people voted for Boris last December, despite knowing his unsuitability for the job, simply because they felt a Corbyn government would be worse.
At the end of the day we were not in the vanguard of infection in Europe and if, despite that, we end up with about the worst performance in Europe who else do you blame if not the government?
I wouldn't invest in a CV19 inquiry going anywhere.
I still cannot forgive people like NickP who supported JC....it'll take some time (if ever)....they seriously fucked up the cause of left wing politics for a decade at least....
Public enquiries are useless
Didn't the British soldiers commit a crime?
People die as a result of other peoples' stupidity or carelessness all the time. They don't end up in prison, because stupidity is not a criminal offence.
But variety alone would make it more compelling a label.
Oh, and the major danger to him - recession from No Deal Brexit - is going to have its effects hidden in the COVID recession.
Stupidity leads to a criminal offence leading to prison time.
I hate the Tories Brexiteers more than the Corbynites....both are ideologues who should have not been allowed anywhere near anything other than holding their dicks taking a piss....
send me a note on the vanilla thing
If we want to start discussing blame then the NHS / DoH / PHE alphabet soup deserves much of it for their operational fuckups.
Or more generally our globalist establishment, which does include our government, which saw no problem with the UK being dependent upon imported PPE and for whom restrictions on international travel was anathema.
I do get upset when people tell me what to think
Make it 6/4 and I'll have £400
Let me know if you agree....
Good night to the other muppets here