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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Dominic Cummings Should resign (from a fan)

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Dominic Cummings Should resign (from a fan)

First a declaration of my view of Dominic Cummings. 

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited May 2020
    1st in the door - unlike Cummings :D
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    edited May 2020
    If Downing Street are saying Dom didn't go back for a 2nd time, and that turns out to be true, then that's a very good defense against this. If however he really did, then WTF is Johnson on?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Wow.

    That's an excellent piece. Thanks Richard
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Other than general election nights, I am pretty sure PB has never had 5 consecutive threads on the same subject before. Clear evidence of anti Tory bias, or something.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Scott_xP said:
    You are in the papers. They spelt your name right and everything.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,929
    Fans can relive their star's greatest triumph.
    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/brexit-the-uncivil-war
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    CatMan said:

    If Downing Street are saying Dom didn't go back for a 2nd time, and that turns out to be true, then that's a very good defense against this. If however he really did, then WTF is Johnson on?

    Downing Street aren't saying that. They're saying the story, which includes claims that he visited a second time, is inaccurate. The inaccuracy might be that he was wearing a bucket hat not a beanie.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Wow.

    That's an excellent piece. Thanks Richard

    I think it rather misses tbe point. This is a story about lying and causing others to lie.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited May 2020
    Mike said: "Richard has been a longstanding PBer"

    Has he left?

    Or did he resign? ;)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    The view that he chose family over duty is tenable only if you don't believe the allegations about the second and third breaches of the lockdown regulations.

    On the contrary, it looks to me as though he went out on trips at the weekend because he thought he was above the law. I think the reason he went to Durham in the first place is that he thought it would be a more pleasant place to self-isolate in. The story about his child being in danger was just a convenient lie.
  • The Government has made such a mess out of this.

    I bet Keir is drunk as shit tonight
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Very good.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    Great article, Richard!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    Mike said: "Richard has been a longstanding PBer"

    Has he left?

    Or did he resign? ;)

    “Has been" is in the present perfect tense, referring to an action that began at some time in the past and is still in progress. So he’s still here!
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,703
    FPT...
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Personally I think this is a storm in a teacup. He was visited by the police and they have said Cummings has nothing to answer, making it a non-story for me. It has been blown out of all proportion by hostile sections of the media bent on revenge for his role in the referendum victory and the GE victory.

    This is an attempt by his enemies to claim a political scalp, nothing more, nothing less. But he is too valuable to the Conservative Party. That is why his enemies are so desperate to see him go. And for that reason alone, he should stay. Because he still has much work to do.

    However, I respect Richard's opinion immensely. This is a great thread header.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    @Richard_Tyndall :+1:

    Thank you for expressing your views on this
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    FPT

    December 2019: 80 seat majority.

    May 2020: Still 80 seats, but now a lame duck administration waiting for the public to kick them out.

    That's what they said about Westland and a hundred other political scandals.

    The reality is that major electoral shifts happen only very rarely.
    Matthew Parris said Westland marked the passing of Maggie's noon, though many more years in power awaited her. I have to say this has a similar feel to it: the best bits for Boris may have already gone.
    Well Thatcher had another 4.5 years as PM together with another GE victory.

    I'm suspect Boris would not decline that.
    Maggie had political talent. Boris has bluster.

    If Boris does not get his act together he will be doing well to survive another 4.5 months.
    Different eras require different skillsets.

    This is the era of bluster.
    If that were true Starmers fooked

    I think todays antics will drive more people away from bluster.

    Next VI taken entirely after tonight should show a massive narrowing IMO

    I go for an 8 pt Tory lead
    That's certainly possible.

    But I think this is still the era of bluster - although people might prefer the bluster of someone else.

    Because I don't think people want to face reality about the unsustainability of much of our lifestyles and economics.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    At least he's not playing Golf:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/23/trump-golf-course-coronavirus

    "Donald Trump teed up fresh controversy on Saturday, by leaving the White House for his golf course in Virginia.

    Early on a fine morning in Washington DC, the president was seen by reporters “in his typical golf wear of white polo shirt and white baseball cap … before he departed the White House” for an undisclosed location. Secret Service agents accompanying the president were photographed wearing masks. Trump was not seen to cover his face."

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Of course there will be more. The Press will have dates, times, witnesses and maybe even (shock, horror) photos!!!!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    kyf_100 said:

    Personally I think this is a storm in a teacup. He was visited by the police and they have said Cummings has nothing to answer, making it a non-story for me. It has been blown out of all proportion by hostile sections of the media bent on revenge for his role in the referendum victory and the GE victory.

    This is an attempt by his enemies to claim a political scalp, nothing more, nothing less. But he is too valuable to the Conservative Party. That is why his enemies are so desperate to see him go. And for that reason alone, he should stay. Because he still has much work to do.

    However, I respect Richard's opinion immensely. This is a great thread header.

    As I have said all day, the Labour Party has not called for his resignation. They see the value in him staying and the continuing embarrassment he will cause the Conservative government. His resignation just kills the story. If he stays he remains he story and it’s a positive one for the Opposition.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited May 2020
    Remarkable to think how highly Cummings must be rated, or rate himself, to be treated as so indispensable. I'm not a fan of ditching someone to try to cut short a story, but I'm surprised as the aggressive defence given the point in the post about the effect on the message.

    It's harsh, but I don't think it unfair to hold people in power, or in positions of high influence to those who are in power, to a high standard of public duty. We'd all hope we would live up to it and suspect we would not, but it doesn't make a failure to do so ok.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    edited May 2020
    deleted
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    On a completely different subject, the write up on the Biden remarks about black voters seem unusually opinionated for a BBC piece to me.

    Democratic White House candidate Joe Biden is in damage limitation mode after saying African Americans "ain't black" if they even consider voting for President Donald Trump over him.

    Gaffe-prone Mr Biden made the remark in an interview on Friday with a prominent black radio host, Charlamagne Tha God, about his outreach to black voters.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52773555

    I don't know, he does make gaffes, I'm just a little surprised it would be so direct about it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    DougSeal said:

    Mike said: "Richard has been a longstanding PBer"

    Has he left?

    Or did he resign? ;)

    “Has been" is in the present perfect tense, referring to an action that began at some time in the past and is still in progress. So he’s still here!
    I’m sorry, I’ve been doing that grammar Nazi thing again haven’t I! It’s my most unappealing habit (of many!)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mike said: "Richard has been a longstanding PBer"

    Has he left?

    Or did he resign? ;)

    “Has been" is in the present perfect tense, referring to an action that began at some time in the past and is still in progress. So he’s still here!
    I’m sorry, I’ve been doing that grammar Nazi thing again haven’t I! It’s my most unappealing habit (of many!)
    I will forgive you :D:D
  • DougSeal said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Personally I think this is a storm in a teacup. He was visited by the police and they have said Cummings has nothing to answer, making it a non-story for me. It has been blown out of all proportion by hostile sections of the media bent on revenge for his role in the referendum victory and the GE victory.

    This is an attempt by his enemies to claim a political scalp, nothing more, nothing less. But he is too valuable to the Conservative Party. That is why his enemies are so desperate to see him go. And for that reason alone, he should stay. Because he still has much work to do.

    However, I respect Richard's opinion immensely. This is a great thread header.

    As I have said all day, the Labour Party has not called for his resignation. They see the value in him staying and the continuing embarrassment he will cause the Conservative government. His resignation just kills the story. If he stays he remains he story and it’s a positive one for the Opposition.
    Absolutely. Oppositions rarely genuinely want resignations, at least not quickly. They want it slow and drawn out, with the target horribly injured, thrashing around, and stinking the place out for days or weeks. That's what they may be getting.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    tlg86 said:

    Yes, because of course Gordon Brown had no idea what McBride was up to.
    The same question is important here: what and when did Boris Johnson know?

    The longer this goes on, the stronger the inference that Boris Johnson knew all along and sanctioned Dominic Cummings’ behaviour.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    They're really going to have to do one on Starmer tomorrow.
    Voluntary work in in a leper colony that he's bought, rescuing droopy bees and reviving them with sugar water, whatever, it's gonnae be YOOOGE.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Yes! He must stay! Every thinking anti-Tory agrees with you!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    Yes, because of course Gordon Brown had no idea what McBride was up to.
    The same question is important here: what and when did Boris Johnson know?

    The longer this goes on, the stronger the inference that Boris Johnson knew all along and sanctioned Dominic Cummings’ behaviour.
    I had a quick look and Johnson came out of hospital on 12 April. When did he give the speech in Downing Street when everyone thought he looked like he shouldn't have been back at work?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    tlg86 said:

    Yes, because of course Gordon Brown had no idea what McBride was up to.
    It's more about being able to say 'I asked him and this is what he told me' rather than the truth isn't it?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Doing it, doing it again, lying about it and misleading most of the cabinet into endorsing the lie looks like quite a few strikes to me.

    The principal danger to Boris here is nothing to do with covid at all, it's that people will draw conclusions about Brexit from the fact that its chief architect turns out to be a lying little creep. Everything he has ever touched is retrospectively defiled.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Yes! He must stay! Every thinking anti-Tory agrees with you!
    Then I very much hope we oblige you, and that Cummings has a good 4 years to dream up the third lightning strike that his opponents will never see coming.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    kle4 said:

    On a completely different subject, the write up on the Biden remarks about black voters seem unusually opinionated for a BBC piece to me.

    Democratic White House candidate Joe Biden is in damage limitation mode after saying African Americans "ain't black" if they even consider voting for President Donald Trump over him.

    Gaffe-prone Mr Biden made the remark in an interview on Friday with a prominent black radio host, Charlamagne Tha God, about his outreach to black voters.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52773555

    I don't know, he does make gaffes, I'm just a little surprised it would be so direct about it.

    Politicians attempting to be 'trendy' tend to look ridiculous.

    Added to which Biden looks pitiful to most people - a dismal old man without even the monstrous entertainment value Trump provides.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    #1rule4them
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    To be honest, this is how we won the election...and until the virus hit, the press were entirely sidelined.

    I think they see this as their chance to get back into 'the influencing the public view' realm, at the same time as literally trying to save their own papers. Hence the hysteria of recent weeks.

    I see the papers decided to censor the monthly circulations. Any idea what they showed? I'd be amazed if they weren't 80% down during lockdown....
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    I agree with Richard T about as often as I agree with Dominic Cummings, but this is a very good piece. Bravo.

    The Sunday Times is going to be the one to watch for. The best investigative team on “Fleet Street” and not one that enjoys being scooped by the Guardian and Mirror.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited May 2020

    tlg86 said:

    Yes, because of course Gordon Brown had no idea what McBride was up to.
    The same question is important here: what and when did Boris Johnson know?

    The longer this goes on, the stronger the inference that Boris Johnson knew all along and sanctioned Dominic Cummings’ behaviour.
    Or even more damaging... perhaps Johnson did not give a Tinker's D*mn and let Cummings do whatever he like without question.

    A bit like Tony Blair playing at International Statesman whilst Gordon Brown more or less seemed to be PM, but in the shadows
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Well summed up Richard and I agree 100%
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    If the next election takes place on May 2nd 2024 as required by the FTPA, Parliament will be dissolved towards the end of March that year - ie 3 years and 10 months from now. It also implies that we are as close to Polling Day as to mid-June 2016 - the month of the EU Referendum. Is that really such a long time ago?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    tlg86 said:

    Yes, because of course Gordon Brown had no idea what McBride was up to.
    The same question is important here: what and when did Boris Johnson know?

    The longer this goes on, the stronger the inference that Boris Johnson knew all along and sanctioned Dominic Cummings’ behaviour.
    Or even more damaging... perhaps Johnson did not give a Tinker's D*mn and let Cummings do whatever he like without question.

    A bit like Tony Blair playing at International Statesman whilst Gordon Brown more or less seemed to be PM, but in the shadows
    Oh it’s clear that Boris Johnson didn’t care. He’d have done something about it if he did.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    I hope you have enough popcorn.

    Enjoy the show!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited May 2020
    justin124 said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    If the next election takes place on May 2nd 2024 as required by the FTPA, Parliament will be dissolved towards the end of March that year - ie 3 years and 10 months from now. It also implies that we are as close to Polling Day as to mid-June 2016 - the month of the EU Referendum. Is that really such a long time ago?
    Erm, given we have had four new ministries since then, I'm not sure you've picked such a good example there.

    3 years 10 months is an awful long time in politics.

    Edit to add - even this time last year I was recovering from a brusing local election campaign at which we lost the local council, and to add insult to injury, were about to get (rightly, in this case) pummelled in elections that should never have happened.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    DougSeal said:

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Yes! He must stay! Every thinking anti-Tory agrees with you!
    Then I very much hope we oblige you, and that Cummings has a good 4 years to dream up the third lightning strike that his opponents will never see coming.
    Yes! Like the Covid-19 he sneaked into County Durham unannounced.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,168
    edited May 2020
    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    To be honest, this is how we won the election...and until the virus hit, the press were entirely sidelined.

    I think they see this as their chance to get back into 'the influencing the public view' realm, at the same time as literally trying to save their own papers. Hence the hysteria of recent weeks.

    I see the papers decided to censor the monthly circulations. Any idea what they showed? I'd be amazed if they weren't 80% down during lockdown....
    Well obviously the circulation of paper copies of newspapers was down hugely whilst people were largely confined to their home (with only a handful of allowable 260 miles to Durham). That falls into "no shit, Sherlock".

    But what about website hits? This is a period of time when people are unusually attentive to the news.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited May 2020

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    To be honest, this is how we won the election...and until the virus hit, the press were entirely sidelined.

    I think they see this as their chance to get back into 'the influencing the public view' realm, at the same time as literally trying to save their own papers. Hence the hysteria of recent weeks.

    I see the papers decided to censor the monthly circulations. Any idea what they showed? I'd be amazed if they weren't 80% down during lockdown....
    Well obviously the circulation of paper copies of newspapers was down hugely. That falls into "no shit, Sherlock".

    But what about website hits? This is a period of time when people are unusually attentive to the news.
    I'll be fascinated to see if they go back up - I'm not sure they will...

    Are people that attentive? Most people I know have given up on the news right now, because of the constant, mindnumbing tedium of having a single story to report....

    Edit to add, and the advertisers won't be happy at the low circs - obvs.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,225
    Impeccably argued, Richard.

    Thank you and well done.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    Have any of the Cabinet voiced support for Cummings' sorry No10's Fake News defence yet?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Yes! He must stay! Every thinking anti-Tory agrees with you!
    Then I very much hope we oblige you, and that Cummings has a good 4 years to dream up the third lightning strike that his opponents will never see coming.
    Yes! Like the Covid-19 he sneaked into County Durham unannounced.
    Very good!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Yes! He must stay! Every thinking anti-Tory agrees with you!
    Then I very much hope we oblige you, and that Cummings has a good 4 years to dream up the third lightning strike that his opponents will never see coming.
    Yes! Like the Covid-19 he sneaked into County Durham unannounced.
    Very good!
    Thanks, but that was an empty net
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Impeccably argued, Richard.

    Thank you and well done.

    PB is very lucky to have its range of writers.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    Hostile media????? Lordy...
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    To be honest, this is how we won the election...and until the virus hit, the press were entirely sidelined.

    I think they see this as their chance to get back into 'the influencing the public view' realm, at the same time as literally trying to save their own papers. Hence the hysteria of recent weeks.

    I see the papers decided to censor the monthly circulations. Any idea what they showed? I'd be amazed if they weren't 80% down during lockdown....
    Well obviously the circulation of paper copies of newspapers was down hugely. That falls into "no shit, Sherlock".

    But what about website hits? This is a period of time when people are unusually attentive to the news.
    I'll be fascinated to see if they go back up - I'm not sure they will...

    Are people that attentive? Most people I know have given up on the news right now, because of the constant, mindnumbing tedium of having a single story to report....

    Edit to add, and the advertisers won't be happy at the low circs - obvs.
    Yes, there have been massive increases in TV viewing generally during the crisis and particularly for news. There have also been huge increases in radio listening (not reflected in Spotify etc, which lacks the inclusion of speech and news content). I don't know about newspaper websites, but suspect they've had a lot of traffic also.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Outstanding header.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Wait.

    Boris is saying “at least he wasn’t visiting a lover”.

    Boris. Bonking Boris.

    Irony is dead.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    DougSeal said:
    I assume foreign nationals will be using their "own judgement" under the forthcoming quarantine rules.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    Hostile media????? Lordy...
    Oh, you mean it was friendly media putting out this hit piece? My mistake.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sensational, my only regret is not waiting till now to put my money on Big Dom roughing it out.

    Go for it lads, give it laldy.

    Perked me right up
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    Hostile media????? Lordy...
    Oh, you mean it was friendly media putting out this hit piece? My mistake.
    Hit piece? Investigative journalism from two Labour supporting papers you mean. It was the press doing their job. Live with it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Pulpstar said:

    DougSeal said:
    I assume foreign nationals will be using their "own judgement" under the forthcoming quarantine rules.
    I doubt there would be anything to stop them.
  • Yes, that was definitely the advice at the time.

    I remember it clear as day. Sombre government ministers saying, "Do not leave home to visit your lover. Everything else is fine, though. Pop up to Durham as much as you like - it's nice at this time of year."
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 363
    This whole episode is getting sickening to watch, but it has come at a convenient time yes?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Well, it's an interesting strategy, I'll give it that. I guess in a fast moving pandemic the 'ignore it and it'll go away approach' may work with many queries, but this one is a juicy personal story that affects someone closer to the PM than almost anyone - it's practically designed to keep up press interest.

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    It's funny how often the media's attacks are often suggested to be meaningless - look at the polls, this is not a big issue etc - and yet such power is attributed to them on occasion, to the extent it needs to be broken.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    I think you'll find that there are thousands of people who were not allowed to comfort a dying relative in their final moments

    If you think this is just a non story, then fine......
  • Wait.

    Boris is saying “at least he wasn’t visiting a lover”.

    Boris. Bonking Boris.

    Irony is dead.
    In fairness, Boris has been an absolute stickler for not visiting his lover over recent weeks. Thankfully, this week he's been allowed to visit one lover only in an outside location and, as lockdown eases further, he'll be looking forward to extending that relaxation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    I am loving this story as while what I know of Dominic Cummings I don't much like, I also don't have a particular care whether he is sacked or retained, since each seems equally likely to generate a lot of frothing fury or ecstasy among the political commentariat which should be pretty amusing. It's like giving everyone a break.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Very good header @Richard_Tyndall thank you.

    I think with the first argument, if Cummings felt he had to break the lockdown for the sake of his family he should have resigned first.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    This is literally about 2 strikes now.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Help me please. At this stage of the crisis, is the correct adjective “embattled” or “beleaguered “?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So the bet I'm now wondering about is Boris exit date.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.

    Are you a Russian Bot?
    I'm glad I do not put my bank details on the site...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    edited May 2020
    justin124 said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    If the next election takes place on May 2nd 2024 as required by the FTPA, Parliament will be dissolved towards the end of March that year - ie 3 years and 10 months from now. It also implies that we are as close to Polling Day as to mid-June 2016 - the month of the EU Referendum. Is that really such a long time ago?
    Well, let's see. Since the month of the EU referendum, we have seen off two prime ministers, had two general elections, a political party was briefly created then vanished (CUK - remember them?), Nigel Farage briefly topped the polls, the entire country has been put under house arrest and the president of the United States has gone on live TV recommending people inject themselves with bleach.

    So yes, I think quite a lot can happen in the time you've set out, and what Dom did or didn't do will be but a distant memory by then. Which is why he should hang on. He's today's news, but today's news is tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited May 2020
    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    tyson said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    I think you'll find that there are thousands of people who were not allowed to comfort a dying relative in their final moments

    If you think this is just a non story, then fine......
    This post hits the nail squarely on the head.

    If the Cabinet cannot see how damning this situation is they are even more tin-eared than I imagined.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    If the next election takes place on May 2nd 2024 as required by the FTPA, Parliament will be dissolved towards the end of March that year - ie 3 years and 10 months from now. It also implies that we are as close to Polling Day as to mid-June 2016 - the month of the EU Referendum. Is that really such a long time ago?
    Erm, given we have had four new ministries since then, I'm not sure you've picked such a good example there.

    3 years 10 months is an awful long time in politics.

    Edit to add - even this time last year I was recovering from a brusing local election campaign at which we lost the local council, and to add insult to injury, were about to get (rightly, in this case) pummelled in elections that should never have happened.
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.

    Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?

    Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
    He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
    They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
    If the next election takes place on May 2nd 2024 as required by the FTPA, Parliament will be dissolved towards the end of March that year - ie 3 years and 10 months from now. It also implies that we are as close to Polling Day as to mid-June 2016 - the month of the EU Referendum. Is that really such a long time ago?
    Erm, given we have had four new ministries since then, I'm not sure you've picked such a good example there.

    3 years 10 months is an awful long time in politics.

    Edit to add - even this time last year I was recovering from a brusing local election campaign at which we lost the local council, and to add insult to injury, were about to get (rightly, in this case) pummelled in elections that should never have happened.
    That is fair enough - perception of time is very personal and subjective. I can only say that to me David Cameron's resignation announcement in Downing St the morning after the Referendum seems - and feels - pretty recent.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    Still waiting for any Cabinet support for Dom's statement.
    Should imagine they're having an early night with all that furious tweeting earlier in the day.
    Run out of steam.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Help me please. At this stage of the crisis, is the correct adjective “embattled” or “beleaguered “?

    Depends who it is applied to - Boris or Cummings?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    tyson said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    I think you'll find that there are thousands of people who were not allowed to comfort a dying relative in their final moments

    If you think this is just a non story, then fine......
    I was speaking to someone recently whose dad passed away. He did not get to be with his dad and the "funeral" involved moving his dad's body to the crematorium and cremating it. He was not exactly happy about this.

    I wonder if he will be delighted to see the man who made these laws breaking those self-same laws?

    I rather doubt it.
This discussion has been closed.