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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A PBer lobbies the government over not being able to see his m

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 22,494
    Boston - More Than a Feeling
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,961
    On topic - faced with denial of access to residents, could family members simply decide to withdraw relatives from care homes for the duration of the Covid epidemic?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,230

    TimT said:

    Stairway to Heaven....

    Excellent, thanks.
    Not particularly long, but very distinctive - Money, Pink Floyd
    People Are People
    Enjoy the Silence
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,914
    Fishing said:



    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?

    Yes I agree with all that. The government did much too good a job in frightening everybody in March, whereas it should have concentrated on telling people about the huge differences in the disease for different age groups, obesity levels and so on.

    And shutting schools was a disastrous mistake, given the total lack of evidence that children play more than a minimal role in spreading the virus, and seem to suffer from it much less than normal flu.
    There is a strong possibility that the teaching unions will now dig their heels in and refuse to have all the kids back as normal until there's a vaccine - which could be years away and may never happen at all.

    Unless the disease miraculously vanishes by September then the stay-at-home Mummy (because it will mostly be women who end up falling victim to this) will be making a major comeback in the Autumn. Businesses that expect people to work full-time won't indulge parents who have to have half-the-week off (quite possibly on an irregular rota, two days one week and three days the next) indefinitely. Wherever possible they will use the situation to sack them and either cut the wage bill permanently, or re-hire from amongst the vast pool of the newly-unemployed, who will also compete to work for lower pay.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 2,726

    Ave_it said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is a complete shit

    Indeed.

    His attempts to score political points over care homes etc have been disgusting. Corbyn was more of a statesman over CV19 than Starmer and that says something.
    I think the shine is coming off Keir somewhat. Another north London metropolitan socialist, built on his parents' money, absolutely hates working class people! No wonder Boris is still 10% clear.

    Maybe bring back Ed Balls for LAB GE 2029?
    Yeah I'm sure his parents, a toolmaker and a nurse, were absolutely loaded, with their multi million pound elitist donkey sanctuary.
    It was a selective, fee paying donkey sanctuary.
    Yeah you had to be a braying toff to get in.
    They teach good stable manners though, I’ll say that much for them
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 12,020

    Keir Starmer has accused Boris Johnson of causing a collapse in public confidence over the government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, saying No 10 will be directly responsible if the infection rate starts to rise again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/02/keir-starmer-warns-pm-get-a-grip-or-risk-second-wave-of-coronavirus

    And he is spot on. That is precisely what Johnson has done. If the virus takes off again now it is largely on him.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 3,004
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Light my fire.
    Whiter Shade of Pale.
    Like a Prayer.
    How Soon is Now.
    Fools Gold too.
    When the Music's over.
    Tocatta and Fuge in D minor.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,675
    kinabalu said:

    Keir Starmer has accused Boris Johnson of causing a collapse in public confidence over the government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, saying No 10 will be directly responsible if the infection rate starts to rise again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/02/keir-starmer-warns-pm-get-a-grip-or-risk-second-wave-of-coronavirus

    And he is spot on. That is precisely what Johnson has done. If the virus takes off again now it is largely on him.
    If people are going to abandon sensible behaviour due to their disappointment about the non-sacking of a Government advisor, coronavirus is welcome to them. The gene pool can only benefit.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 3,004
    Pulpstar said:


    One of these days - Pink Floyd

    Almost all Pink Floyd songs from this era have a long intro.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,324

    Ave_it said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is a complete shit

    Indeed.

    His attempts to score political points over care homes etc have been disgusting. Corbyn was more of a statesman over CV19 than Starmer and that says something.
    I think the shine is coming off Keir somewhat. Another north London metropolitan socialist, built on his parents' money, absolutely hates working class people! No wonder Boris is still 10% clear.

    Maybe bring back Ed Balls for LAB GE 2029?
    Yeah I'm sure his parents, a toolmaker and a nurse, were absolutely loaded, with their multi million pound elitist donkey sanctuary.
    It was a selective, fee paying donkey sanctuary.
    I think you'll find all the donkeys went to Eton.

    And now we are led by them.
    Rishi Sunak went to Winchester, Raab and Patel were state educated
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 35,603
    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    MaxPB said:

    I already get a sense that the economy isn't as bad as it was last month and I'm optimistic that by July most sectors will be back to almost full strength.

    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?
    Time to go down to 1m as soon as possible. It's the WHO guidance! This will help all business and get people back to work. Boris needs to say 1m now, everything open from 1 July and stop the furlough from 1 August.

    And then as soon as we can, scrap social distancing.

    Why scrap the furlough prematurely? That's madness.

    If the furlough is scrapped prematurely then businesses will shutter for good and sack their staff. There needs to be a phased return to work as Sunak wisely signalled in which case hopefully as much of the economy as possible can survive.

    Even if you dropped to 1m now it will take time before customers return to normal. So it will take time to unwind furlough without devastation.
    That's why I am saying: go down to 1m now, give business 1 month to prepare (1 July) and then stop the furlough (1 August). So a phased approach.
    1 month isn't phased. Not when businesses are legally obliged to give notice to their staff too. The decision to shutter would need to be made imminently before seeing if customers return or not.
    This would imply that the business isn't viable in any case if they were thinking of closing - so why should it be kept going for £2,500pm furlough per employee?
    The business might be viable if it can transition back to normal, it might not be viable if it's pushed out all at once before customers are back to normal.
    OK I think it's simply a difference of opinion between us on the timing of ending the furlough. I want to keep the viable businesses going but don't want furlough to act as a very expensive welfare in respect of those businesses which are not viable and which probably wouldn't be even if we didn't have COVID.
    Oh me too but the end has already been announced. Why escalate that now?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 3,004

    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:
    Totally not a racial superiority cult.
    ... nor woke virtue signalling ...
    At times like this there are worse things in life than virtue signalling ...
    No, this is mental illness and dangerous.
    Kneeling down to signal support isn't dangerous.
    Kneeling on people's necks is dangerous.

    Kneeling down to signal support isn't dangerous.
    Hearing someone gasping for breath and continuing to kneel on their neck is dangerous.

    Kneeling down to signal support isn't dangerous.
    Hearing someone say "I can't breathe" and continuing to kneel on their neck is dangerous.

    Kneeling down to signal support isn't dangerous.
    Kneeling on someone's neck for eight long minutes until you've snuffed out their life is dangerous.

    Nobody is going to die from virtue signalling. If you think that's dangerous I'm these circumstances you have pretty screwed up priorities.
    You don't kneel to support, you kneel to subordinate.

    I am Jewish. My grandfather escaped the gas chamber twice. You can go fuck yourself if you think I'm not going to point out when the same metal illness is spreading.
    You must deplore this.

    'THE WARSAW GENUFLECTION: WILLY BRANDT’S HISTORIC GESTURE

    After the end of the Second World War, diplomatic relations between West Germany and Poland had ceased. In 1970, German Chancellor Willy Brandt travelled to Warsaw and decided to make a historic gesture: in front of the Monument to the Ghetto Heroes, he dropped to his knees in order to beg forgiveness for the crimes of the Nazi era.'

    https://www.dhm.de/blog/2016/12/07/392/
    Yes.

    Secondly, it didn't take me long to work out you were an antisemite so piss off and vandalise some Jewish cemetery or something. You aren't going to wash away your sins by screaming racist at anyone else.
    You have a lot to learn if you think Willi Brandt was anti-semitic.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 35,603
    Tim_B said:

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Paradise by the dashboard light?
    Quite a few of his would work. Bat Out of Hell is very distinctive.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 12,020

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Apache by The Shadows.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,451
    edited June 2

    Ave_it said:

    Fishing said:

    Ave_it said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is a complete shit

    Indeed.

    His attempts to score political points over care homes etc have been disgusting. Corbyn was more of a statesman over CV19 than Starmer and that says something.
    I think the shine is coming off Keir somewhat. Another north London metropolitan socialist, built on his parents' money, absolutely hates working class people! No wonder Boris is still 10% clear.
    Not only that, but he has an odd inability to take positions on issues. Before the last election, the Brexit policy was maximum fudge. Since then, he and his shadow cabinet has refused lots of opportunities to say what Labour's policy is on vital issues like schools reopening or ending the lockdown. We've no idea what he would have done differently in March.

    He's not a risk-taker - few lawyers are. But if he wants to make headway, he'll need to take some positions on the big issues of the day eventually, unless the Government implodes completely. Being good at PMQs won't be nearly enough.
    Yes absolutely Fishing

    I have commented on here before about his (or his team's) inability to propose any ideas on Covid-19. LAB approach is entirely negative and they remain unfit for government.

    Talking yesterday to a chum who is a lifelong enviro-lefty. He really, really dislikes Boris.

    BUT the way in which the Left have tried to twist everything to be negative to the government on Covid has go him seriously riled. He was really ranting about it.

    This in Grimsby, which Labour has to retake if they want to govern again.
    Yes, but the facts do show that the government has been pretty pisspoor, Sunak excepted.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 34,912
    West End Girls
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,675
    kinabalu said:

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Apache by The Shadows.
    Great!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 35,603
    Alistair said:



    The first tweet back says he was a "career criminal".

    Incredible.

    Norman Stanley Fletcher would have been sat on while he died of lack of air under that view of the world.
    Thing is, they are going to throw the book at this guy, rightly, for what he has done.

    Due process will take its course and he will be severely punished, as he should be.

    And if there hadn't been someone filming the whole thing he would have gotten away with it.
    Indeed just like with Ahmaud Arbery too recently.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 60,033
    eristdoof said:

    Pulpstar said:


    One of these days - Pink Floyd

    Almost all Pink Floyd songs from this era have a long intro.
    The intro of this one is pretty much the entire song though :p
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,914

    Oh... what have we here? A kite that appears to be airborne?

    The public says all sorts of shit in polls. What most of them really do after thinking about tax rises for more than ten seconds is conclude that they are a special case (e.g, because they have children, a large mortgage, work in the public sector, own a business that employs people, do volunteering rescuing puppies, need money to keep their fashion shoe collection up-to-date, or God alone knows what other excuse) and that extra taxes really ought, therefore, to be paid by "the rich."

    "The rich" are an undeserving category that consists, depending on which poll respondent you're asking, either of Richard Branson and various exiled Russian oligarchs, or of everybody who earns at least £1 per year more than the respondent does.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 857

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    I Don’t like Mondays - Boomtown Rats

    Because the Night - Patti Smith

    Perfect for what you need, but scarcely popular, the sublime piano intro to Sylvie by St Etienne. Bonus for not being stylistically related to the rest of the song
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,230

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    MaxPB said:

    I already get a sense that the economy isn't as bad as it was last month and I'm optimistic that by July most sectors will be back to almost full strength.

    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?
    Time to go down to 1m as soon as possible. It's the WHO guidance! This will help all business and get people back to work. Boris needs to say 1m now, everything open from 1 July and stop the furlough from 1 August.

    And then as soon as we can, scrap social distancing.

    Why scrap the furlough prematurely? That's madness.

    If the furlough is scrapped prematurely then businesses will shutter for good and sack their staff. There needs to be a phased return to work as Sunak wisely signalled in which case hopefully as much of the economy as possible can survive.

    Even if you dropped to 1m now it will take time before customers return to normal. So it will take time to unwind furlough without devastation.
    That's why I am saying: go down to 1m now, give business 1 month to prepare (1 July) and then stop the furlough (1 August). So a phased approach.
    1 month isn't phased. Not when businesses are legally obliged to give notice to their staff too. The decision to shutter would need to be made imminently before seeing if customers return or not.
    This would imply that the business isn't viable in any case if they were thinking of closing - so why should it be kept going for £2,500pm furlough per employee?
    The business might be viable if it can transition back to normal, it might not be viable if it's pushed out all at once before customers are back to normal.
    OK I think it's simply a difference of opinion between us on the timing of ending the furlough. I want to keep the viable businesses going but don't want furlough to act as a very expensive welfare in respect of those businesses which are not viable and which probably wouldn't be even if we didn't have COVID.
    Oh me too but the end has already been announced. Why escalate that now?
    Let's hope it is the end. It was supposed to finish on 30 June originally (?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,205
    eristdoof said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Light my fire.
    Whiter Shade of Pale.
    Like a Prayer.
    How Soon is Now.
    Fools Gold too.
    When the Music's over.
    Tocatta and Fuge in D minor.
    If you're having JSB's Tocatta and Fuge in D minor, can I push for Mahler's 1st symphony? Exhilarating introduction to that first movement.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,162

    Fishing said:



    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?

    Yes I agree with all that. The government did much too good a job in frightening everybody in March, whereas it should have concentrated on telling people about the huge differences in the disease for different age groups, obesity levels and so on.

    And shutting schools was a disastrous mistake, given the total lack of evidence that children play more than a minimal role in spreading the virus, and seem to suffer from it much less than normal flu.
    There is a strong possibility that the teaching unions will now dig their heels in and refuse to have all the kids back as normal until there's a vaccine - which could be years away and may never happen at all.

    Unless the disease miraculously vanishes by September then the stay-at-home Mummy (because it will mostly be women who end up falling victim to this) will be making a major comeback in the Autumn. Businesses that expect people to work full-time won't indulge parents who have to have half-the-week off (quite possibly on an irregular rota, two days one week and three days the next) indefinitely. Wherever possible they will use the situation to sack them and either cut the wage bill permanently, or re-hire from amongst the vast pool of the newly-unemployed, who will also compete to work for lower pay.
    It's not the "teaching unions" though is it?
    It is the very structure of schools, 30+ crammed into a small room, changing the cast every hour. Windows which cant be opened. Cramped corridors, overloaded and inadequate toilet facilities without the ability to wash hands properly. All these are legitimate barriers to getting back to normal. Particularly in older buildings.
    Teaching Unions, which comprise actual teachers, are merely pointing these issues out to ministers and the general public who seem to think 're opening is simply an act of will.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,891

    Oh... what have we here? A kite that appears to be airborne?

    The public says all sorts of shit in polls. What most of them really do after thinking about tax rises for more than ten seconds is conclude that they are a special case (e.g, because they have children, a large mortgage, work in the public sector, own a business that employs people, do volunteering rescuing puppies, need money to keep their fashion shoe collection up-to-date, or God alone knows what other excuse) and that extra taxes really ought, therefore, to be paid by "the rich."

    "The rich" are an undeserving category that consists, depending on which poll respondent you're asking, either of Richard Branson and various exiled Russian oligarchs, or of everybody who earns at least £1 per year more than the respondent does.
    Well, if Sunak does put 1p on income tax it wont be going to social care given the state of finances.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 12,020
    edited June 2

    kinabalu said:

    Keir Starmer has accused Boris Johnson of causing a collapse in public confidence over the government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, saying No 10 will be directly responsible if the infection rate starts to rise again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/02/keir-starmer-warns-pm-get-a-grip-or-risk-second-wave-of-coronavirus

    And he is spot on. That is precisely what Johnson has done. If the virus takes off again now it is largely on him.
    If people are going to abandon sensible behaviour due to their disappointment about the non-sacking of a Government advisor, coronavirus is welcome to them. The gene pool can only benefit.
    That is not a fair representation. Johnson chose to praise him and thus pissed away his authority. Fingers crossed it doesn't cost lives.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 2,726

    kinabalu said:

    Keir Starmer has accused Boris Johnson of causing a collapse in public confidence over the government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, saying No 10 will be directly responsible if the infection rate starts to rise again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/02/keir-starmer-warns-pm-get-a-grip-or-risk-second-wave-of-coronavirus

    And he is spot on. That is precisely what Johnson has done. If the virus takes off again now it is largely on him.
    If people are going to abandon sensible behaviour due to their disappointment about the non-sacking of a Government advisor, coronavirus is welcome to them. The gene pool can only benefit.
    Nothing to do with Cummings, everything to do with the premature easing of lockdown. The Cummings story just massively offended people’s sense of fair play. I really think the “role model” thing was bollocks. Indeed the polling OGH put up the other night suggests most people would not behave like him in the same circumstances.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,205

    Oh... what have we here? A kite that appears to be airborne?

    The public says all sorts of shit in polls. What most of them really do after thinking about tax rises for more than ten seconds is conclude that they are a special case (e.g, because they have children, a large mortgage, work in the public sector, own a business that employs people, do volunteering rescuing puppies, need money to keep their fashion shoe collection up-to-date, or God alone knows what other excuse) and that extra taxes really ought, therefore, to be paid by "the rich."

    "The rich" are an undeserving category that consists, depending on which poll respondent you're asking, either of Richard Branson and various exiled Russian oligarchs, or of everybody who earns at least £1 per year more than the respondent does.
    It doesn't really matter what the public thinks, taxes are going to rise. In four years' time they will have the chance to choose between the party of tax rises or the, er... other party of tax rises. And a jolly good thing too.

    Get used to it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 35,603
    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    MaxPB said:

    I already get a sense that the economy isn't as bad as it was last month and I'm optimistic that by July most sectors will be back to almost full strength.

    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?
    Time to go down to 1m as soon as possible. It's the WHO guidance! This will help all business and get people back to work. Boris needs to say 1m now, everything open from 1 July and stop the furlough from 1 August.

    And then as soon as we can, scrap social distancing.

    Why scrap the furlough prematurely? That's madness.

    If the furlough is scrapped prematurely then businesses will shutter for good and sack their staff. There needs to be a phased return to work as Sunak wisely signalled in which case hopefully as much of the economy as possible can survive.

    Even if you dropped to 1m now it will take time before customers return to normal. So it will take time to unwind furlough without devastation.
    That's why I am saying: go down to 1m now, give business 1 month to prepare (1 July) and then stop the furlough (1 August). So a phased approach.
    1 month isn't phased. Not when businesses are legally obliged to give notice to their staff too. The decision to shutter would need to be made imminently before seeing if customers return or not.
    This would imply that the business isn't viable in any case if they were thinking of closing - so why should it be kept going for £2,500pm furlough per employee?
    The business might be viable if it can transition back to normal, it might not be viable if it's pushed out all at once before customers are back to normal.
    OK I think it's simply a difference of opinion between us on the timing of ending the furlough. I want to keep the viable businesses going but don't want furlough to act as a very expensive welfare in respect of those businesses which are not viable and which probably wouldn't be even if we didn't have COVID.
    Oh me too but the end has already been announced. Why escalate that now?
    Let's hope it is the end. It was supposed to finish on 30 June originally (?)
    No it wasn't. It was announced as running to at least then subject to review and could be extended. Extension therefore wasn't a shock.

    End of the program has already been confirmed now by Sunak. It'd be a major u turn to turn it around now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,324
    dixiedean said:

    Am I the only one who finds the argument that people will choose Boris over SKS because the latter is "too posh" faintly ludicrous?

    The next general election will be the first fought between two public schoolboys since Macmillan v Gaitskill in 1959
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,956
    The secret service have been sent out to move this thread along as Donald wants a photo op...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,451

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    'Won't get Fooled Again'.
    Don't Fear the Reaper: Blue Oyster Cult

    I used to have it as my ringtone... :smile:

    Freebird: Lynyrd Skynyrd.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 33,947
    justin124 said:

    On topic - faced with denial of access to residents, could family members simply decide to withdraw relatives from care homes for the duration of the Covid epidemic?

    With respect that is just naive and shows little understanding of the problem

    People are in care for many reasons including dementia and failing health and are way beyond the family looking after them
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,107
    sarissa said:

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    I Don’t like Mondays - Boomtown Rats

    Because the Night - Patti Smith

    Perfect for what you need, but scarcely popular, the sublime piano intro to Sylvie by St Etienne. Bonus for not being stylistically related to the rest of the song
    Bat out of hell
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 35,603
    The Who - Won't Get Fooled Again

    I'd be curious how many hear that and think of the song rather than CSI.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,205
    Enola Gay OMD
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,162

    The secret service have been sent out to move this thread along as Donald wants a photo op...

    Good one!
  • Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    'Won't get Fooled Again'.
    Baba O'Reilly?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 2,726

    Ave_it said:

    Fishing said:

    Ave_it said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is a complete shit

    Indeed.

    His attempts to score political points over care homes etc have been disgusting. Corbyn was more of a statesman over CV19 than Starmer and that says something.
    I think the shine is coming off Keir somewhat. Another north London metropolitan socialist, built on his parents' money, absolutely hates working class people! No wonder Boris is still 10% clear.
    Not only that, but he has an odd inability to take positions on issues. Before the last election, the Brexit policy was maximum fudge. Since then, he and his shadow cabinet has refused lots of opportunities to say what Labour's policy is on vital issues like schools reopening or ending the lockdown. We've no idea what he would have done differently in March.

    He's not a risk-taker - few lawyers are. But if he wants to make headway, he'll need to take some positions on the big issues of the day eventually, unless the Government implodes completely. Being good at PMQs won't be nearly enough.
    Yes absolutely Fishing

    I have commented on here before about his (or his team's) inability to propose any ideas on Covid-19. LAB approach is entirely negative and they remain unfit for government.

    Talking yesterday to a chum who is a lifelong enviro-lefty. He really, really dislikes Boris.

    BUT the way in which the Left have tried to twist everything to be negative to the government on Covid has go him seriously riled. He was really ranting about it.

    This in Grimsby, which Labour has to retake if they want to govern again.
    Conversely I have been “talking to” more than a few true blue Tories down here in Conservative rural Kent on the village FB group who think the government’s handling of this pandemic has been a disgraceful shambles. Canterbury aside, you’re probably in no trouble down this end of the county, but lose a few seats to the LDs next time out nearer London then you could have problems. The anger here is real - and not just about Cummings.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 466
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:



    Wales will lose 8 seats - probably 1 Plaid 3 or 4 Labour and 4 or 3 Conservativej

    Plaid will be pretty lucky if they only end up losing one seat. Assuming Preseli Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion are combined, and east and west Carmarthenshire, that’s two seats the Conservatives would start with pretty comfortable nominal holds in.
    Not convinced that would prove to be true in reality. Preseli Pembrokeshire and Cardigan have both been Labour-held within living memory. For many years Cardigan was largely a Liberal - Labour contest with Plaid and the Tories becoming more competive from 1979. Preseli Pembrokeshire remains a Tory- Labour marginal with other parties not being competitive. In the context of a combined seat, much of the Plaid vote in Ceredigion could switch tactically to Labour.
    Can I just clarify as Preseli is my constituency. I thought combining seats idea has been dropped. Just redrawing.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,914
    dixiedean said:

    Fishing said:



    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?

    Yes I agree with all that. The government did much too good a job in frightening everybody in March, whereas it should have concentrated on telling people about the huge differences in the disease for different age groups, obesity levels and so on.

    And shutting schools was a disastrous mistake, given the total lack of evidence that children play more than a minimal role in spreading the virus, and seem to suffer from it much less than normal flu.
    There is a strong possibility that the teaching unions will now dig their heels in and refuse to have all the kids back as normal until there's a vaccine - which could be years away and may never happen at all.

    Unless the disease miraculously vanishes by September then the stay-at-home Mummy (because it will mostly be women who end up falling victim to this) will be making a major comeback in the Autumn. Businesses that expect people to work full-time won't indulge parents who have to have half-the-week off (quite possibly on an irregular rota, two days one week and three days the next) indefinitely. Wherever possible they will use the situation to sack them and either cut the wage bill permanently, or re-hire from amongst the vast pool of the newly-unemployed, who will also compete to work for lower pay.
    It's not the "teaching unions" though is it?
    It is the very structure of schools, 30+ crammed into a small room, changing the cast every hour. Windows which cant be opened. Cramped corridors, overloaded and inadequate toilet facilities without the ability to wash hands properly. All these are legitimate barriers to getting back to normal. Particularly in older buildings.
    Teaching Unions, which comprise actual teachers, are merely pointing these issues out to ministers and the general public who seem to think 're opening is simply an act of will.
    My fault for not being clear. I think they'd now object regardless of how much evidence is found to support the contention that children are both poor transmitters of the infection and at very low risk indeed of falling seriously ill, or if social distancing were to be significantly relaxed (e.g. through a change from a 2m to a 1m rule.)

    Regardless, the Great Working Parent Sackfest of 2020 is on its way.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,961

    justin124 said:

    On topic - faced with denial of access to residents, could family members simply decide to withdraw relatives from care homes for the duration of the Covid epidemic?

    With respect that is just naive and shows little understanding of the problem

    People are in care for many reasons including dementia and failing health and are way beyond the family looking after them

    justin124 said:

    On topic - faced with denial of access to residents, could family members simply decide to withdraw relatives from care homes for the duration of the Covid epidemic?

    I fully accept that it would depend on individual circumstances and that often it would not be a realistic option.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,573
    The posho equivalent of a Shed with a Bed
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,144

    Alistair said:



    The first tweet back says he was a "career criminal".

    Incredible.

    Norman Stanley Fletcher would have been sat on while he died of lack of air under that view of the world.
    Thing is, they are going to throw the book at this guy, rightly, for what he has done.

    Due process will take its course and he will be severely punished, as he should be.

    And if there hadn't been someone filming the whole thing he would have gotten away with it.
    Indeed just like with Ahmaud Arbery too recently.
    There was an interview today with some silly teenagers organising the U.K. protests about Floyd.

    But the stat that jumped out to me was that in the UK 936 BAME individuals have died in police custody/following police contact (eg shooting) since 1990.

    That’s like 30 a year. I had absolutely no idea it was this high
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,956
    edited June 2
    Repeat, step away from the thread, otherwise you will be tear gassed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 12,020
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Joe Biden is a prize wally...

    Joe Biden, the likely Democratic nominee for president, said recently that police could shoot someone in the leg instead of the heart, saying that one is “a very different thing” from the other.

    350 million people and the Americans get to choose between Trump or him. Jesus wept.

    Americans will not vote for a president seen as soft on crime as Michael Dukakis discovered in 1988, if a criminal is armed then they expect police to respond with force
    I think 2020 = 1988 for Biden
    Then you should think a little better.
    He’s not even going to win the nomination? Bold prediction.
    Oh did I get the wrong end of the stick there?

    I'm only predicting one thing - Trump to lose easily.

    That's my rock.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 3,448

    dixiedean said:

    Fishing said:



    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?

    Yes I agree with all that. The government did much too good a job in frightening everybody in March, whereas it should have concentrated on telling people about the huge differences in the disease for different age groups, obesity levels and so on.

    And shutting schools was a disastrous mistake, given the total lack of evidence that children play more than a minimal role in spreading the virus, and seem to suffer from it much less than normal flu.
    There is a strong possibility that the teaching unions will now dig their heels in and refuse to have all the kids back as normal until there's a vaccine - which could be years away and may never happen at all.

    Unless the disease miraculously vanishes by September then the stay-at-home Mummy (because it will mostly be women who end up falling victim to this) will be making a major comeback in the Autumn. Businesses that expect people to work full-time won't indulge parents who have to have half-the-week off (quite possibly on an irregular rota, two days one week and three days the next) indefinitely. Wherever possible they will use the situation to sack them and either cut the wage bill permanently, or re-hire from amongst the vast pool of the newly-unemployed, who will also compete to work for lower pay.
    It's not the "teaching unions" though is it?
    It is the very structure of schools, 30+ crammed into a small room, changing the cast every hour. Windows which cant be opened. Cramped corridors, overloaded and inadequate toilet facilities without the ability to wash hands properly. All these are legitimate barriers to getting back to normal. Particularly in older buildings.
    Teaching Unions, which comprise actual teachers, are merely pointing these issues out to ministers and the general public who seem to think 're opening is simply an act of will.
    My fault for not being clear. I think they'd now object regardless of how much evidence is found to support the contention that children are both poor transmitters of the infection and at very low risk indeed of falling seriously ill, or if social distancing were to be significantly relaxed (e.g. through a change from a 2m to a 1m rule.)

    Regardless, the Great Working Parent Sackfest of 2020 is on its way.
    Right now the evidence for both of those assertions is extremely limited and uncertain. What’s beyond doubt is that a class of 30+ kids will not be capable of any form of social distancing. You can’t blame the unions for standing firm on this.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,500
    Songs and PB demographics -- all the same era; all the same genre. (For some values of all.)
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,914

    Oh... what have we here? A kite that appears to be airborne?

    The public says all sorts of shit in polls. What most of them really do after thinking about tax rises for more than ten seconds is conclude that they are a special case (e.g, because they have children, a large mortgage, work in the public sector, own a business that employs people, do volunteering rescuing puppies, need money to keep their fashion shoe collection up-to-date, or God alone knows what other excuse) and that extra taxes really ought, therefore, to be paid by "the rich."

    "The rich" are an undeserving category that consists, depending on which poll respondent you're asking, either of Richard Branson and various exiled Russian oligarchs, or of everybody who earns at least £1 per year more than the respondent does.
    It doesn't really matter what the public thinks, taxes are going to rise. In four years' time they will have the chance to choose between the party of tax rises or the, er... other party of tax rises. And a jolly good thing too.

    Get used to it.
    There seem to be three schools of thought on this:

    1. We're headed for a V-shaped recession and it can be seen through with borrowing
    2. Things are going to be bad for several years but the Government can still manage through borrowing, as the ultra-low interest rate environment is here to stay and gilt investors will therefore keep buying for lack of any meaningful alternative safe haven to state-issued bonds
    3. Things are going to be bad for several years and the Government can't keep getting away with racking up debt forever, so it will have to plug budget holes by soaking the middle classes (there being too few genuinely rich people to pay the bills, and the poor having nothing more to give)

    It would appear that we both subscribe to school number three, but much of the public hasn't seen the tax hikes coming yet. Therefore, and this is really the point I was trying to make, there will be a great deal of indignant screaming when they are unveiled.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,961
    valleyboy said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:



    Wales will lose 8 seats - probably 1 Plaid 3 or 4 Labour and 4 or 3 Conservativej

    Plaid will be pretty lucky if they only end up losing one seat. Assuming Preseli Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion are combined, and east and west Carmarthenshire, that’s two seats the Conservatives would start with pretty comfortable nominal holds in.
    Not convinced that would prove to be true in reality. Preseli Pembrokeshire and Cardigan have both been Labour-held within living memory. For many years Cardigan was largely a Liberal - Labour contest with Plaid and the Tories becoming more competive from 1979. Preseli Pembrokeshire remains a Tory- Labour marginal with other parties not being competitive. In the context of a combined seat, much of the Plaid vote in Ceredigion could switch tactically to Labour.
    Can I just clarify as Preseli is my constituency. I thought combining seats idea has been dropped. Just redrawing.
    At the moment it can only be speculation as to what the Boundary Commissioners will now recommend. However, some reduction of seats in Wales is pretty certain .
    May I ask you as a local voter there , what were the dynamics of the campaign in Preseli in 2019 following the very tight result in 2017? I regret to say that I have a brother in Haverfordwest who switched from Labour to the Tories - for the first time ever - over Brexit. I have only spoken to him on one occasion since.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 12,020
    Ave_it said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is a complete shit

    Indeed.

    His attempts to score political points over care homes etc have been disgusting. Corbyn was more of a statesman over CV19 than Starmer and that says something.
    I think the shine is coming off Keir somewhat. Another north London metropolitan socialist, built on his parents' money, absolutely hates working class people! No wonder Boris is still 10% clear.

    Maybe bring back Ed Balls for LAB GE 2029?
    Built on his parents' money?

    You sound misguided at best.
    I am clear and right as ever. Stick with Boris. You know it makes sense.
    Mmm. Not sure. You sound a bit "off" to me.

    And I do tend to know these things.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,333
    Shine on you Crazy Diamond.
    13 minute intro...

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 2,726
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Joe Biden is a prize wally...

    Joe Biden, the likely Democratic nominee for president, said recently that police could shoot someone in the leg instead of the heart, saying that one is “a very different thing” from the other.

    350 million people and the Americans get to choose between Trump or him. Jesus wept.

    Americans will not vote for a president seen as soft on crime as Michael Dukakis discovered in 1988, if a criminal is armed then they expect police to respond with force
    I think 2020 = 1988 for Biden
    Then you should think a little better.
    He’s not even going to win the nomination? Bold prediction.
    Oh did I get the wrong end of the stick there?

    I'm only predicting one thing - Trump to lose easily.

    That's my rock.
    Sorry, my comment was aimed at Mr It. As for the presidential election, I’m a fence sitter.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,914

    dixiedean said:

    Fishing said:



    You have got to be kidding? As long as the 2m rule is in place, the schools can't function at any more than a fraction of capacity and half the population is too afraid to go outside unless compelled to do so, then things are not going to get substantially better.

    The retail sector is about to be decimated: measures like lengthy queues for every shop and the closure of fitting rooms will erase physical retail's advantages over online. Most pubs, bars and nightclubs are done for. The bulk of the non-takeaway restaurants can't survive either with most of their tables missing or by forcing their clientele to sit in perspex cells. The performance arts, along with any professional sports that are reliant on gate revenues, are finished.

    Over the Summer, and certainly once we get into September and we see both the winding up of the furlough scheme and a tsunami wave of redundancies for working parents on top of that, we are looking at mass unemployment. Unless the bulk of the social distancing measures are dumped and most people feel reassured that it is safe to go out - and there's no sign of either of those conditions being achieved any time soon - then how can it be otherwise?

    Yes I agree with all that. The government did much too good a job in frightening everybody in March, whereas it should have concentrated on telling people about the huge differences in the disease for different age groups, obesity levels and so on.

    And shutting schools was a disastrous mistake, given the total lack of evidence that children play more than a minimal role in spreading the virus, and seem to suffer from it much less than normal flu.
    There is a strong possibility that the teaching unions will now dig their heels in and refuse to have all the kids back as normal until there's a vaccine - which could be years away and may never happen at all.

    Unless the disease miraculously vanishes by September then the stay-at-home Mummy (because it will mostly be women who end up falling victim to this) will be making a major comeback in the Autumn. Businesses that expect people to work full-time won't indulge parents who have to have half-the-week off (quite possibly on an irregular rota, two days one week and three days the next) indefinitely. Wherever possible they will use the situation to sack them and either cut the wage bill permanently, or re-hire from amongst the vast pool of the newly-unemployed, who will also compete to work for lower pay.
    It's not the "teaching unions" though is it?
    It is the very structure of schools, 30+ crammed into a small room, changing the cast every hour. Windows which cant be opened. Cramped corridors, overloaded and inadequate toilet facilities without the ability to wash hands properly. All these are legitimate barriers to getting back to normal. Particularly in older buildings.
    Teaching Unions, which comprise actual teachers, are merely pointing these issues out to ministers and the general public who seem to think 're opening is simply an act of will.
    My fault for not being clear. I think they'd now object regardless of how much evidence is found to support the contention that children are both poor transmitters of the infection and at very low risk indeed of falling seriously ill, or if social distancing were to be significantly relaxed (e.g. through a change from a 2m to a 1m rule.)

    Regardless, the Great Working Parent Sackfest of 2020 is on its way.
    Right now the evidence for both of those assertions is extremely limited and uncertain. What’s beyond doubt is that a class of 30+ kids will not be capable of any form of social distancing. You can’t blame the unions for standing firm on this.
    The jury is out on transmission; on the matter of the effects of the disease on the young the evidence is already conclusive. Serious cases of Covid-19 in schoolchildren are very rare, and deaths are almost unheard of.

    In this publication of Covid-19 death statistics (covering England and Wales for April):

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinapril2020

    "There were no deaths in the three youngest age groups (those aged 0 to 9 years). The youngest age group to record a death was those aged 10 to 14 years, with one female death."
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,333
    Charles said:

    Alistair said:



    The first tweet back says he was a "career criminal".

    Incredible.

    Norman Stanley Fletcher would have been sat on while he died of lack of air under that view of the world.
    Thing is, they are going to throw the book at this guy, rightly, for what he has done.

    Due process will take its course and he will be severely punished, as he should be.

    And if there hadn't been someone filming the whole thing he would have gotten away with it.
    Indeed just like with Ahmaud Arbery too recently.
    There was an interview today with some silly teenagers organising the U.K. protests about Floyd.

    But the stat that jumped out to me was that in the UK 936 BAME individuals have died in police custody/following police contact (eg shooting) since 1990.

    That’s like 30 a year. I had absolutely no idea it was this high
    This is the report for 2018/19: https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/statistics/deaths_during_following_police_contact_201819.pdf
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 3,682

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Borderline by Madonna
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,592
    Pulpstar said:

    eristdoof said:

    Pulpstar said:


    One of these days - Pink Floyd

    Almost all Pink Floyd songs from this era have a long intro.
    The intro of this one is pretty much the entire song though :p
    Abba's The Way Before You Came - very distinctive, one of the their least-known hits:

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,675

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    Borderline by Madonna
    She has a few. There's Papa Don't Preach too.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 2,114
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Keir Starmer has accused Boris Johnson of causing a collapse in public confidence over the government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, saying No 10 will be directly responsible if the infection rate starts to rise again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/02/keir-starmer-warns-pm-get-a-grip-or-risk-second-wave-of-coronavirus

    And he is spot on. That is precisely what Johnson has done. If the virus takes off again now it is largely on him.
    If people are going to abandon sensible behaviour due to their disappointment about the non-sacking of a Government advisor, coronavirus is welcome to them. The gene pool can only benefit.
    That is not a fair representation. Johnson chose to praise him and thus pissed away his authority. Fingers crossed it doesn't cost lives.
    Your last comment ignores the fact that people are responsible for what they do. Its not the Govts fault however you might like to try and pin it on it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,254
    edited June 3
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:



    Wales will lose 8 seats - probably 1 Plaid 3 or 4 Labour and 4 or 3 Conservativej

    Plaid will be pretty lucky if they only end up losing one seat. Assuming Preseli Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion are combined, and east and west Carmarthenshire, that’s two seats the Conservatives would start with pretty comfortable nominal holds in.
    Not convinced that would prove to be true in reality. Preseli Pembrokeshire and Cardigan have both been Labour-held within living memory. For many years Cardigan was largely a Liberal - Labour contest with Plaid and the Tories becoming more competive from 1979. Preseli Pembrokeshire remains a Tory- Labour marginal with other parties not being competitive. In the context of a combined seat, much of the Plaid vote in Ceredigion could switch tactically to Labour.
    No it wouldn’t. You have no idea how hated Labour have become in Aberystwyth, which is their one stronghold in the area. And since Plaid would be very close to second place, why would they anyway?

    If anything, Ceredigion has been swinging Conservative as large numbers of English speaking people retire there.

    Edit - if anything, although I don’t know the seat as well as you, I would have thought it more likely Plaid voters would vote tactically for Labour in Preseli, distorting the result.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,597

    sarissa said:

    Can anyone think of any popular pop songs with long and distinctive intros? Zoom quiz round research again. I'll owe you.

    I Don’t like Mondays - Boomtown Rats

    Because the Night - Patti Smith

    Perfect for what you need, but scarcely popular, the sublime piano intro to Sylvie by St Etienne. Bonus for not being stylistically related to the rest of the song
    Bat out of hell
    Are you talking about long music introductions or the introduction of Coronavirus?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 1,650
    edited June 5

    Oh... what have we here? A kite that appears to be airborne?

    The public says all sorts of shit in polls. What most of them really do after thinking about tax rises for more than ten seconds is conclude that they are a special case (e.g, because they have children, a large mortgage, work in the public sector, own a business that employs people, do volunteering rescuing puppies, need money to keep their fashion shoe collection up-to-date, or God alone knows what other excuse) and that extra taxes really ought, therefore, to be paid by "the rich."

    "The rich" are an undeserving category that consists, depending on which poll respondent you're asking, either of Richard Branson and various exiled Russian oligarchs, or of everybody who earns at least £1 per year more than the respondent does.
    It doesn't really matter what the public thinks, taxes are going to rise. In four years' time they will have the chance to choose between the party of tax rises or the, er... other party of tax rises. And a jolly good thing too.

    Get used to it.
    There seem to be three schools of thought on this:

    1. We're headed for a V-shaped recession and it can be seen through with borrowing
    2. Things are going to be bad for several years but the Government can still manage through borrowing, as the ultra-low interest rate environment is here to stay and gilt investors will therefore keep buying for lack of any meaningful alternative safe haven to state-issued bonds
    3. Things are going to be bad for several years and the Government can't keep getting away with racking up debt forever, so it will have to plug budget holes by soaking the middle classes (there being too few genuinely rich people to pay the bills, and the poor having nothing more to give)

    It would appear that we both subscribe to school number three, but much of the public hasn't seen the tax hikes coming yet. Therefore, and this is really the point I was trying to make, there will be a great deal of indignant screaming when they are unveiled.
    Nobody has a clue. Take this afternoon's US payrolls numbers.

    How many jobs has the US lost in May?

    well it really does depend who you ask.

    Is is 2.2m jobs? (the low estimate of analysts)

    or is it 10m jobs? (the high estimate of analysts).

    And people wonder why experts are treated with scepticism these days.
This discussion has been closed.