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System · June 2020

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Washington DC – the capital city where in democratic terms its residents are second class citizens

Just imagine what would happen if those people who resided in the City of Westminster were not allowed to have an MP. It would be decidedly odd and very hard to justify on democratic terms and no doubt the residents there would rightly feel angry. Well that is the situation that exists for the 0.75m people whose home is in Washington DC.

Read the full story here

Omnium · June 2020

First, but alas not much to say

Sunil_Prasannan · June 2020

re. Madness, FPT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P23Gqn6y8AI

Sunil_Prasannan · June 2020

re. The Room, FPT

For some unfathomable reason, it has a rating on Rotten Tomatoes not of 0%, but of 25%!

Sunil_Prasannan · June 2020

DC and Puerto Rico should become States! Higher population in Puerto Rico than in around 20 of the 50 states! Sad!

SandyRentool · June 2020

A bunch of academics on a couple of park benches chewing the fat.

Great stuff in 1970.

Scott_xP · June 2020

https://twitter.com/jaysbookman/status/1274315854205915138

Malmesbury · June 2020

NHS England data -

Headline - 71
Last 7 days - 59
Yesterday - 6

OnlyLivingBoy · June 2020

The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

SouthamObserver · June 2020

If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

another_richard · June 2020

Simple solution - put the city back into Maryland.

RobD · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?

Scott_xP · June 2020

https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/1274348999433166848

OldKingCole · June 2020

SouthamObserver said:
If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

Some years ago the late Robert Mugabe offered to give the USA some advice on the democratic process. TBH, I think they should have taken it.
The USA, as an example of democracy, is a disgrace.

Yes, I know there's a lot wrong with ours, and I fear we're sliding backwards.

rottenborough · June 2020

Just checked into 1970. A woman in a market going on about Rhodesia. Difficult to remember what an issue that was back then.

HYUFD · June 2020

I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

OnlyLivingBoy · June 2020

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?

In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.

Andrew · June 2020

Huge number of surveillance (pillar 4) tests today, 56k - most via mail. They must be starting a new programme there.

Edit: twas a lumpsum revision, not a daily increase.

Malmesbury · June 2020

Since the NHS England hospital deaths has become strikingly linear, I tried a linear trend line.

No, I don't think this will happen this quickly - but it is interesting none the less.

Omnium · June 2020

OldKingCole said:

SouthamObserver said:
If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.
Some years ago the late Robert Mugabe offered to give the USA some advice on the democratic process. TBH, I think they should have taken it.
The USA, as an example of democracy, is a disgrace.

Yes, I know there's a lot wrong with ours, and I fear we're sliding backwards.

I think that the UK democratic process is in a good place. The only blight is the media - there's no good there - woeful beyond measure.

What was Mugabe's advice?

OldKingCole · June 2020

rottenborough said:
Just checked into 1970. A woman in a market going on about Rhodesia. Difficult to remember what an issue that was back then.

I was once, while canvassing for the Liberal Party escorted off a premises. There were remarks about 'bombing our people' generated by a misunderstanding of Jeremy Thorpe's position.

rottenborough · June 2020

Good God, the Liberals used to hold B'ham Ladywood.

TheWhiteRabbit · June 2020

Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/1274348999433166848

Somebody did point out online that for the information to be classified, as the White House claims, it has to be true...!

Andrew · June 2020

Malmesbury said:

No, I don't think this will happen this quickly - but it is interesting none the less.

Underlying exponential but with gradual change in backdating over time making it appear linear?

another_richard · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.

Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.

OnlyLivingBoy · June 2020

HYUFD said:
I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.

rottenborough · June 2020

George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?

Malmesbury · June 2020

Andrew said:

Malmesbury said:

No, I don't think this will happen this quickly - but it is interesting none the less.
Underlying exponential but with gradual change in backdating over time making it appear linear?

Maaaaaaaybe....

Fishing · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black.

Probably not strictly true any more. According to the 2010 census, the black share, once more than 70%, had fallen to only 51% as the gentrification of the city pushed blacks out to Prince George's Co. Md, and other places. It'll have fallen further since then.

On topic, I think the last thing America needs is yet another small state with disproportionate clout in the Senate. The district should be absorbed back into Maryland.

OnlyLivingBoy · June 2020

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.

So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?

OldKingCole · June 2020

rottenborough said:
Good God, the Liberals used to hold B'ham Ladywood.

It was won in a by-election a couple of years earlier. How Wallace Lawler got himself elected as a Liberal was a matter of surprise in some quarters.

Fishing · June 2020

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?

Unfortunately, with blacks overwhelmingly voting Democrat, you can't split the two.

Virtually everything in America has a racial component, to an extent baffling to us, though we're starting to see glimpses of it here.

Andrew · June 2020

Biden+10, Surveymonkey. Admittedly not a pollster with a great record in the US.

ydoethur · June 2020

rottenborough said:
George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?

He wasn’t terribly impressive for such a remarkable man, was he? But given he was 75 at the time, we should make some allowance.

I have to say, the quality of that clip was far better than the quality of this overall production. Looks an LP VHS that’s been left in the sum.

Interesting Skidelsky was writing Wilson off and RR James wasn’t.

OnlyLivingBoy · June 2020

Fishing said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black.
Probably not strictly true any more. According to the 2010 census, the black share, once 80%, had fallen to only 51% as the gentrification of the city pushed blacks out to Prince George's Co. Md, and other places. It'll have fallen further since then.

On topic, I think the last thing America needs is yet another small state with disproportionate clout in the Senate. The district should be absorbed back into Maryland.

You may be right, even while we lived there the city became more white. My guess is that as the majority of the population becomes white it will get a vote. The whole malaportionment in the Senate is an absurd anomaly, but as long as places like Wyoming and North Dakota get two Senators I don't see why DC shouldn't.

RobD · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.

I dunno, it has been around for 200 years and the voting rights haven't changed regardless of the makeup of the population.

another_richard · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?

I've already given the solution - put DC back into Maryland.

But I take it you don't disagree that it is a place with a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Perhaps people might consider why such places always seem to be democrat party strongholds.

CatMan · June 2020

1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras

HYUFD · June 2020

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20

Foxy · June 2020

SouthamObserver said:
If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1274098195648446469?s=09

HYUFD · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

HYUFD said:
I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016
Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.

Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital

rottenborough · June 2020

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20

Don't come back.

Omnium · June 2020

CatMan said:
1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras

They did very much more with less perhaps?

Whatever happened to the days when you could trust the BBC - or even more sadly the Times newspaper?

Lesser outlets have stayed that way. The Independent newspaper for example has gone from admirable to abominable.

Perhaps the Sun has become better - it couldn't have become worse.

rottenborough · June 2020

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:
George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?
He wasn’t terribly impressive for such a remarkable man, was he? But given he was 75 at the time, we should make some allowance.

I have to say, the quality of that clip was far better than the quality of this overall production. Looks an LP VHS that’s been left in the sum.

Interesting Skidelsky was writing Wilson off and RR James wasn’t.

I am awaiting the woke brigade realising that he was into eugenics and burning all his books and plays.

TheScreamingEagles · June 2020

HYUFD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

HYUFD said:
I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016
Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital

There are two states with smaller populations than DC and similar to two others.

Should those other states become cities instead?

williamglenn · June 2020

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20

Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?

OnlyLivingBoy · June 2020

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
I've already given the solution - put DC back into Maryland.

But I take it you don't disagree that it is a place with a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Perhaps people might consider why such places always seem to be democrat party strongholds.

It would make sense to reabsorb DC into Maryland, the same way that Alexandria was reabsorbed into Virginia. But for some reason the Americans are very attached to the idea of a separate capital so I don't know how plausible that is.
DC is the most racially segregated place I've ever lived in. The Black population are mostly Democrats I guess for the same reason most Black voters are Democrats, that unlike the Republicans they are not an overtly racist party (and haven't been since LBJ lost the South in the sixties) although when you consider what Black voters have actually got out of their loyalty to the Democrats all these years you have to wonder whether they have been well rewarded.
The White population is more transient, many of them work in political roles and so they are a mix of hyper partisan on both sides, but the Republicans often prefer to live in Virginia for whatever reason (lower taxes?). The more permanent White population tends to be government workers who tend to vote Democrat I guess because the Democrats are more supportive of government spending (the Republicans keep shutting down the government so these guys don't get paid, which isn't very popular). I wouldn't describe the White population as an Overclass, they're mostly just middle class bureaucrats, college students and young Congressional staffers, not the Bildeberg group.

Charles · June 2020

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?

Originally they didn’t want the capital in any state so they created a neutral “district” which was federal not a state. Hence it isn’t represented in the federation as it isn’t a member.

Omnium · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
I've already given the solution - put DC back into Maryland.

But I take it you don't disagree that it is a place with a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Perhaps people might consider why such places always seem to be democrat party strongholds.
It would make sense to reabsorb DC into Maryland, the same way that Alexandria was reabsorbed into Virginia. But for some reason the Americans are very attached to the idea of a separate capital so I don't know how plausible that is.
DC is the most racially segregated place I've ever lived in. The Black population are mostly Democrats I guess for the same reason most Black voters are Democrats, that unlike the Republicans they are not an overtly racist party (and haven't been since LBJ lost the South in the sixties) although when you consider what Black voters have actually got out of their loyalty to the Democrats all these years you have to wonder whether they have been well rewarded.
The White population is more transient, many of them work in political roles and so they are a mix of hyper partisan on both sides, but the Republicans often prefer to live in Virginia for whatever reason (lower taxes?). The more permanent White population tends to be government workers who tend to vote Democrat I guess because the Democrats are more supportive of government spending (the Republicans keep shutting down the government so these guys don't get paid, which isn't very popular). I wouldn't describe the White population as an Overclass, they're mostly just middle class bureaucrats, college students and young Congressional staffers, not the Bildeberg group.

I know you don't mean to, but you've just carefully explained black vs white.

When you see it, it's there, and when you don't.. poof!

ydoethur · June 2020

HYUFD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

HYUFD said:
I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016
Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital

Actually, it was many years after the revolution. At first the capital varied between New York and Philadelphia. It didn’t move to Washington until 1800 - indeed, Congress didn’t meet there in full and full time until 1807.

ydoethur · June 2020

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?

Does it matter? The important thing is now he’s there, we need him to stay there.

ydoethur · June 2020

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:
George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?
He wasn’t terribly impressive for such a remarkable man, was he? But given he was 75 at the time, we should make some allowance.

I have to say, the quality of that clip was far better than the quality of this overall production. Looks an LP VHS that’s been left in the sum.

Interesting Skidelsky was writing Wilson off and RR James wasn’t.
I am awaiting the woke brigade realising that he was into eugenics and burning all his books and plays.

They would be following in the footsteps of the great man himself. He once said that as he got older he understood all plays were very bad and they should all be banned.

Charles · June 2020

Foxy said:

SouthamObserver said:
If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.
This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1274098195648446469?s=09

What’s their stated justification for doing that?

Scott_xP · June 2020

https://twitter.com/senjudiciary/status/1274360303225094151

Scott_xP · June 2020

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1274360064518901761

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1274356487037620228

SandyRentool · June 2020

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Does it matter? The important thing is now he’s there, we need him to stay there.

"We send a knobhead to the EU every week.
Let's send him to America instead."

eristdoof · June 2020

The Australian solution is to have 7 senators for each state and 2 for the two territories, one of which is ACT- Australian Capital Territory ie Canberra. It would be possible to give DC one senator and a handful of representatives. This would also lead to there being an odd number or Senators, making a 50/50 split impossible.

Mexicanpete · June 2020

Charles said:

Foxy said:

SouthamObserver said:
If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.
This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1274098195648446469?s=09
What’s their stated justification for doing that?

The suppression of Democrat votes?

EPG · June 2020

eristdoof said:
The Australian solution is to have 7 senators for each state and 2 for the two territories, one of which is ACT- Australian Capital Territory ie Canberra. It would be possible to give DC one senator and a handful of representatives. This would also lead to there being an odd number or Senators, making a 50/50 split impossible.

A problem with this idea is that it is no easier to implement as it violates the Constitution of the USA, and DC would still have fewer senators than several smaller states. There are also connected reasons why many in DC want statehood, e.g. the deployment of the National Guard.

eristdoof · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?

How about getting rid of the constituency Cities of London and Westminster? 'cos they always return a tory.

Alistair · June 2020

Charles said:

Foxy said:

SouthamObserver said:
If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.
This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1274098195648446469?s=09
What’s their stated justification for doing that?

That postal voting will be so high they only need 1 polling place for over half a million people.

Sunil_Prasannan · June 2020

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

HYUFD said:
I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016
Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital
There are two states with smaller populations than DC and similar to two others.

Should those other states become cities instead?

Also, Puerto Rico is more populous than at least 20 states!

Mexicanpete · June 2020

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?

Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?

ydoethur · June 2020

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?

Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.

TimT · June 2020

Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

TimT · June 2020

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?

You must be a fan of V

Martin_Kinsella · June 2020

Omnium said:

CatMan said:
1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras
They did very much more with less perhaps?

Whatever happened to the days when you could trust the BBC - or even more sadly the Times newspaper?

Lesser outlets have stayed that way. The Independent newspaper for example has gone from admirable to abominable.

Perhaps the Sun has become better - it couldn't have become worse.

At the time there was a lot of resistance to moving to colour from the unions. So in 1970 some shows were filmed on 16mm film and some on black and white video tape. Some series exist partly in colour and partly in black and white.

Mexicanpete · June 2020

TimT said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
You must be a fan of V

No David Icke!...I'm joking.

Scott_xP · June 2020

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1274371721026469888

Carnyx · June 2020

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.

There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.

ydoethur · June 2020

Martin_Kinsella said:

Omnium said:

CatMan said:
1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras
They did very much more with less perhaps?

Whatever happened to the days when you could trust the BBC - or even more sadly the Times newspaper?

Lesser outlets have stayed that way. The Independent newspaper for example has gone from admirable to abominable.

Perhaps the Sun has become better - it couldn't have become worse.
At the time there was a lot of resistance to moving to colour from the unions. So in 1970 some shows were filmed on 16mm film and some on black and white video tape. Some series exist partly in colour and partly in black and white.

Industrial relations are not the usual reason for that. The reason was that colour tapes were generally wiped and reused, because of the cost (£600 a tape, comparable to Arthur Lowe’s salary for Dad’s Army in the early 1970s). But many of the programmes were transferred onto film for sale abroad, usually in black and white because the transfer was easier (you just stuck the camera in front of a very bright TV tube). And because these copies were cheap and plentiful that was therefore what got preserved.

ydoethur · June 2020

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.

That didn’t feel right. It felt as though you stripped my comment newt and mocked it.

Carnyx · June 2020

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.
That didn’t feel right. It felt as though you stripped my comment newt and mocked it.

Oh dear, I'm sorry for any offence caused.

But seriously, Mr Icke can never have looked at any lizard's genitalia (the male ones anyway).

Foxy · June 2020

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.

You speak with forked tongue.

ydoethur · June 2020

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.
That didn’t feel right. It felt as though you stripped my comment newt and mocked it.
Oh dear, I'm sorry for any offence caused.

But seriously, Mr Icke can never have looked at any lizard's genitalia (the male ones anyway).

Why would anyone? It would be a strange thing to monitor.

Pulpstar · June 2020

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali

Black_Rook · June 2020

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

RobD · June 2020

Pulpstar said:

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali

I bet GOP turnout is depressed in CA given how hopeless it is. Same for dems in TX.

Carnyx · June 2020

eadric said:
I hought it was only the horrible Yoons that caused unsavoury scuffles in Glasgow?

https://twitter.com/QueenVix1/status/1274367049624702976?s=20

I'm a bit hazy about which lot is which but it looks as if that may be the Green Brigade, ie. footie fans. BBC Scotland gives a slightly confusing picture, so to speak:

"A group of protesters from the Green Brigade - a group of ultras who follow Celtic football club - were hemmed in by police in the centre of the square.

Anti-racism protesters outside the cordon chanted: "Let them go."

Ch Supt Alan Murray, said: "We identified a group as football risk supporters, who we believed posed a threat to public safety.

"We spoke with this group and, at their request, escorted them to the Gallowgate area of the city where they dispersed."

Separately, a small group of about 50 loyalists were being kept apart from the demonstration by officers."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-53120070

Charles · June 2020

Pulpstar said:

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali

OC, Riverside and the IE would work. 2016 was misleading because the Nixon family went for Johnson not Trump

kle4 · June 2020

Charles said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
Originally they didn’t want the capital in any state so they created a neutral “district” which was federal not a state. Hence it isn’t represented in the federation as it isn’t a member.

That was then, it doesn't make Rob's suggestion of a reason for reluctance to change matters now less plausible.

But the USA is a strange place, electorally.

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

Isn't there some rich chap who has been pushing for CA to become 3 or even 6 states?

ydoethur · June 2020

Black_Rook said:

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

Surely BLM will go actually apeshit if a state is named after Jefferson?

kle4 · June 2020

OnlyLivingBoy said:

another_richard said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

RobD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?

Given the extent of gerrymandering that goes on I'd not be surprised if plenty there agreed with that statement.

kle4 · June 2020

Black_Rook said:

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Californias

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_3

kinabalu · June 2020

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20

Oh dear, he's going to the rally. Father of Brexit creeping around Trump. Sad to see.

HYUFD · June 2020

Pulpstar said:

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali

Interestingly 2016 was the first time Orange County voted for the Democratic candidate for President since 1936.

It voted 51% for Romney in 2012 but only 42% for Trump in 2016, against the national trend

kle4 · June 2020

I feel very dumb indeed - I only just realised what antifa meant.

rottenborough · June 2020

https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1274300620476989444

ydoethur · June 2020

rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1274300620476989444

Appropriate for a group that are now tilting mostly at windmills.

rottenborough · June 2020

The top federal prosecutor in Manhattan, who has investigated President Trump’s closest associates, was refusing to leave his position on Saturday after Attorney General William P. Barr tried to fire him, setting up an extraordinary standoff over the independence of law enforcement and the president’s purge of officials he views as disloyal.

NYTimes

Carnyx · June 2020

eadric said:
Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1274344582365544448?s=20

I don't think any iconoclasm was planned. And the polis seem to have dealt with it all pretty neatly.

Foxy · June 2020

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1274329926141980672?s=20
Oh dear, he's going to the rally. Father of Brexit creeping around Trump. Sad to see.

Free virus with every ticket...

Casino_Royale · June 2020

eadric said:
Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1274344582365544448?s=20

No doubt @Theuniondivvie will be along in a moment to tell us that these are all really "Yoon" members of the Orange Order.

malcolmg · June 2020

eadric said:
Got a bit edgy

https://twitter.com/ZabMustefa/status/1274267632150228993?s=20

Casino_Royale said:

eadric said:
Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1274344582365544448?s=20
No doubt @Theuniondivvie will be along in a moment to tell us that these are all really "Yoon" members of the Orange Order.

Glasgow police are well up to sorting out these thickos , they have had lots of practice with these types over the years.
There will be no joining in,applause, sympathy or standing back they will just sort them out

Foxy · June 2020

eadric said:
Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1274344582365544448?s=20

rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1274300620476989444

Smashing stuff up, particularly the stuff that old codgers like, has always tickled the fancy of rebellious youth. It is intrinsically fun.

Pulpstar · June 2020

RobD said:

Pulpstar said:

TimT said:
Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali

I bet GOP turnout is depressed in CA given how hopeless it is. Same for dems in TX.

Texas is far from hopeless for the Democrats lol

rottenborough · June 2020

“The bottom line is nobody’s squealing except Iowans.”

Joni Ernst and Donald Trump Could Both Be in Trouble in Iowa
Iowa seemed out of reach for Democrats not too long ago. Now, the presidential race appears to be tightening, and Senator Ernst, a Republican, is facing a strong challenge from a political newcomer.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/us/politics/iowa-polls-trump-biden-ernst-greenfield.html

kle4 · June 2020

Foxy said:

eadric said:
Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1274344582365544448?s=20

rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1274300620476989444
Smashing stuff up, particularly the stuff that old codgers like, has always tickled the fancy of rebellious youth. It is intrinsically fun.

Yes, but by those terms very juvenille and not to be romantisised, as many have done and are doing.

Carnyx · June 2020

eadric said:

Carnyx said:

eadric said:
Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1274344582365544448?s=20
I don't think any iconoclasm was planned. And the polis seem to have dealt with it all pretty neatly.
The Scots police certainly showed more backbone there than the Met

Also the polis are wearing facemasks, I see. Not like London IIRC?

EPG · June 2020

Easy solution: Give DC statehood and split Texas in two. I'm sure that will mean a solid two extra senators for Republicans. Innocent face.

Floater · June 2020

More trouble incoming ....

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/no-restrictions-on-firearms-india-gives-soldiers-freedom-along-lac-in-extraordinary-times/story-pCcFAcSAkMRschq50Tom1L.html

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