Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
I tend to react favourably to that kind of thing but I am pro-Remain anyway. How would it be received by waverers, I wonder.
Before the indy referendum there were petitions organised in England, pleading with Scotland to stay. Not sure how they were received in Scotland.
Presumably they were organized by the Labour Party!
Tom Holland had something to do with one of them. (I follow him on Twitter. Remember being vaguely irritated by it.)
The only way that makes sense to me is if it's really at Cameron's request (obviously it can't be seen to be his idea). Then he can say, "This is really it, must get it right first time, yada yada." It helps him fight the "the EU always rings twice" meme. It makes no sense (that I can see) on any other level. What do the Belgians care if there are a thousand negotiations (other than boredom at the personal level)?
As to Belgium, well they struggle to hold their own country together.
We kill far, far more than that. However an even greater number of creatures die from causes entirely outside the human sphere.
For big creatures though we're far more of a threat. The average unicellular creature may have a few percentages more risk in our presence than otherwise.
The true multi-cellular monsters of the planet are massively imperiled by us. Fruit flies for example. However only a tiny minority of fruit flydom has ever seen a human being, when they do though they raise their chances of early demise significantly. If that human being is wearing a white coat then they may as well tidy up their affairs and write their wills.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Probably not what you would watch when on a G&T sesh, but Peter Hitchens' "This Sceptic Isle" is a great documentary on the deceit that trapped us in the EU... available on youtube
HYFUD Who gives a toss if they are Catholics or not.. starvation and deprivation is not concerned with religion..We must arrive at a manageable number of people in the world or everyone will suffer..Any religion or political principle that demands even more population growth is a criminal organisation.
Technically they do not demand more population growth anyway, they demand abstinence before marriage and they do not make any demands on how many children married couples are to have
Just in from home and confronted by the theatricality of David Cameron "battling for Britain" (and any other cliche you want to roll out). After the nonsense PPB earlier in the week with the Union Jack placed behind Cameron's shoulder, we now have this pathetic excuse of a Prime Minister somehow claiming to be the embodiment of patriotism.
The inference if you don't support Cameron you are unpatriotic is about as subtle as a gag from Bottom and the much-missed Rik Mayall.
He has completely personalised it now as well - it's just him, not Osborne, Johnson or Hammond or anyone else, just Cameron, good old "you can trust me Dave" who will bring home the bacon, a deal for the ages, a deal all clean-living sensible patriotic British people have a duty to support.
HYFUD Who gives a toss if they are Catholics or not.. starvation and deprivation is not concerned with religion..We must arrive at a manageable number of people in the world or everyone will suffer..Any religion or political principle that demands even more population growth is a criminal organisation.
The World's population is perfectly manageable. Most rich countries would benefit from higher birthrates.
Exactly, the Far East and most of continental Europe could certainly do with an increase in their birthrates to sustain economic growth and support the elderly
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
And I think you are wrong. The battered wife meme perfectly describes the relationship we have and there are few if any areas where we benefit. Meanwhile the EU is happy to have a girlfriend on the side who gets all the benefits but doesn't have to put up with the abuse.
The fact that very rarely we might get a bunch of flowers does not excuse the general bad behaviour we have to suffer.
I agree with Sean about this. The idea that we have been bending over and taking it for the last 43 years is ignominious and doesn't fit with the way I see my country.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
June Sarpong's on Question Time, as is future Prime Minister Justine Greening.
That's what I predict, too. I'd be astonished if he came out for LEAVE.
If only there was a betting market on which side he will back... If he backs Remain he is a lay for next leader.
Boris has always been a lay for next leader. If he comes out for Leave his price will come in and make him a better value lay.
Do you see George as a lay also?
Yep! I'm balls-deep laying Boris and have a substantial lay on Osborne.
I think the next leader will be from the Cabinet but not one of the two favourites. Boris just isn't a serious politician, too many skeletons and the membership won't vote for him. Osborne's fortune is now tied up with Cameron's, if DC is forced out after the referendum then GO won't replace him.
I really like these long term markets.
My first betfair bet on next Tory leader says "Matched: 20:35 30-Jul-11" which was laying Rory Stewart at 9-1 (bf 10) in £3.
I rather hope my counterparty wins. Admittedly a little less so than I hope Rees-Mogg rises to the fore.
I went for Boris the day after the election last year, when he was roughly evens for next Tory leader and next PM. IMO both markets over-reacted, and I went in with a fair amount of what I'd just won, close to four figures across the two markets.
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
There's realistically only five runners - Osborne, May, Hammond, Javid, Gove - who comes to the front will depend to no small extent on what happens with the referendum. As we saw with Labour and with IDS there's always a chance that someone comes through from nowhere, as Cameron himself did in 2005 - but with the winner taking office as PM it will need to be someone with extensive ministerial experience who can unite the party.
I've now talked myself into backing May, 9/1 with Bet365. In fact, Javid at 10/1, Gove at 16s and Hammond at 25s are probably all value IMHO.
Just in from home and confronted by the theatricality of David Cameron "battling for Britain" (and any other cliche you want to roll out). After the nonsense PPB earlier in the week with the Union Jack placed behind Cameron's shoulder, we now have this pathetic excuse of a Prime Minister somehow claiming to be the embodiment of patriotism.
The inference if you don't support Cameron you are unpatriotic is about as subtle as a gag from Bottom and the much-missed Rik Mayall.
He has completely personalised it now as well - it's just him, not Osborne, Johnson or Hammond or anyone else, just Cameron, good old "you can trust me Dave" who will bring home the bacon, a deal for the ages, a deal all clean-living sensible patriotic British people have a duty to support.
Pass me the sick bag...
I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse but as someone who's occasionally clashed with you in the past, can I say how delighted I am to have you on the Leave side, Stodge? Good man!
It's fantastic to hear someone make the liberal case for an independent Britain, and I welcome any campaign ideas you have to maximise our chances of success.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Fair point. I may have overegged the pudding a tad. It just seems to me that we get the rough end of it. We gold plate EU rules and other countries ignore when it suits. c.f when our beef was declared safe after the BSE business in the 90's. Blair offering up half our rebate for reform of the CAP and nothing happens etc. If the EU really want us to stay, how about introducing one really great reform? A single European language.
Richard Nabavi is right
*checks pulse, then rest of self*
Since we joined, English has become, perforce, the dominant language of the European Union. This irritates the French VERY VERY DEEPLY.
As I understand it the number of living European languages is set to diminish much more quickly than one would think. I think I've read scholarly predictions that all but the biggest will be gone in a hundred years.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Just in from home and confronted by the theatricality of David Cameron "battling for Britain" (and any other cliche you want to roll out). After the nonsense PPB earlier in the week with the Union Jack placed behind Cameron's shoulder, we now have this pathetic excuse of a Prime Minister somehow claiming to be the embodiment of patriotism.
The inference if you don't support Cameron you are unpatriotic is about as subtle as a gag from Bottom and the much-missed Rik Mayall.
He has completely personalised it now as well - it's just him, not Osborne, Johnson or Hammond or anyone else, just Cameron, good old "you can trust me Dave" who will bring home the bacon, a deal for the ages, a deal all clean-living sensible patriotic British people have a duty to support.
Pass me the sick bag...
Just a few more hours before Dave bangs his hand on the table, causes a scene and then flies back to furiously wave his blank piece of paper "deal" around.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
Yes. Practically a traitor. I sincerely believe that. Awful, awful man. And inept, too.
Never mind. Well before his dotage the holy prophet Margaret (PBUH), took his dismal record, knocked some rusty nails into it and shoved it up his pompous, entitled ar$e.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
Yes. Practically a traitor. I sincerely believe that. Awful, awful man. And inept, too.
That's the SeanT I love and know.
Thought you'd gone a bit gaylord ponceyboots there, for a second.
Just in from home and confronted by the theatricality of David Cameron "battling for Britain" (and any other cliche you want to roll out). After the nonsense PPB earlier in the week with the Union Jack placed behind Cameron's shoulder, we now have this pathetic excuse of a Prime Minister somehow claiming to be the embodiment of patriotism.
The inference if you don't support Cameron you are unpatriotic is about as subtle as a gag from Bottom and the much-missed Rik Mayall.
He has completely personalised it now as well - it's just him, not Osborne, Johnson or Hammond or anyone else, just Cameron, good old "you can trust me Dave" who will bring home the bacon, a deal for the ages, a deal all clean-living sensible patriotic British people have a duty to support.
Yep! I'm balls-deep laying Boris and have a substantial lay on Osborne.
I think the next leader will be from the Cabinet but not one of the two favourites. Boris just isn't a serious politician, too many skeletons and the membership won't vote for him. Osborne's fortune is now tied up with Cameron's, if DC is forced out after the referendum then GO won't replace him.
I really like these long term markets.
My first betfair bet on next Tory leader says "Matched: 20:35 30-Jul-11" which was laying Rory Stewart at 9-1 (bf 10) in £3.
I rather hope my counterparty wins. Admittedly a little less so than I hope Rees-Mogg rises to the fore.
I went for Boris the day after the election last year, when he was roughly evens for next Tory leader and next PM. IMO both markets over-reacted, and I went in with a fair amount of what I'd just won, close to four figures across the two markets.
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
There's realistically only five runners - Osborne, May, Hammond, Javid, Gove - who comes to the front will depend to no small extent on what happens with the referendum. As we saw with Labour and with IDS there's always a chance that someone comes through from nowhere, as Cameron himself did in 2005 - but with the winner taking office as PM it will need to be someone with extensive ministerial experience who can unite the party.
I've now talked myself into backing May, 9/1 with Bet365. In fact, Javid at 10/1, Gove at 16s and Hammond at 25s are probably all value IMHO.
You can get Hammond at 60 on the Betfair PM after Cameron market. Of course, there are reasons to suppose it won't be him, but still he is Foreign Secretary ffs.
Re Gove, he would be a huge fuck-you to the public. The party might be in that kind of mood though.
June Sarpong's on Question Time, as is future Prime Minister Justine Greening.
That's what I predict, too. I'd be astonished if he came out for LEAVE.
If only there was a betting market on which side he will back... If he backs Remain he is a lay for next leader.
Boris has always been a lay for next leader. If he comes out for Leave his price will come in and make him a better value lay.
Do you see George as a lay also?
Yep! I'm balls-deep laying Boris and have a substantial lay on Osborne.
I think the next leader will be from the Cabinet but not one of the two favourites. Boris just isn't a serious politician, too many skeletons and the membership won't vote for him. Osborne's fortune is now tied up with Cameron's, if DC is forced out after the referendum then GO won't replace him.
I really like these long term markets.
My first betfair bet on next Tory leader says "Matched: 20:35 30-Jul-11" which was laying Rory Stewart at 9-1 (bf 10) in £3.
I rather hope my counterparty wins. Admittedly a little less so than I hope Rees-Mogg rises to the fore.
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
If that's your tack, look at the "undecideds": Fallon, Greening and Truss. They have not declared or made obvious their allegiance to either side.
I have small bets on Johnson (just in case he ends up against Osborne) but am a heavy layer of Osborne.
I have good bets on Gove, but he might not stand. May is a busted flush. Hammond has missed his chance, and is too boring, and Javid is still possible.
The Tory women are the ones who genuinely excite me, though.
(not in that way; well, ok, a little bit in that way)
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
Rofl. And they wonder why they're called nutjobs.
Sean T should have been the Headsman on Tower Hill, brandishing his grisly trophy, and roaring "Behold the head of a traitor" to the cheering crowd.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Just in from home and confronted by the theatricality of David Cameron "battling for Britain" (and any other cliche you want to roll out). After the nonsense PPB earlier in the week with the Union Jack placed behind Cameron's shoulder, we now have this pathetic excuse of a Prime Minister somehow claiming to be the embodiment of patriotism.
The inference if you don't support Cameron you are unpatriotic is about as subtle as a gag from Bottom and the much-missed Rik Mayall.
He has completely personalised it now as well - it's just him, not Osborne, Johnson or Hammond or anyone else, just Cameron, good old "you can trust me Dave" who will bring home the bacon, a deal for the ages, a deal all clean-living sensible patriotic British people have a duty to support.
Pass me the sick bag...
Sometimes there just aren't enough sick bags.......
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
Rofl. And they wonder why they're called nutjobs.
Sean Fear heads a firm of family solicitors, and is a well respected campaigner and poster.
I am a programme manager for Crossrail, and attend its strategy and leadership meetings, and am known in the Major Projects Authority and well respected in my industry as a successful programme advisor and consultant.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
And I think you are wrong. The battered wife meme perfectly describes the relationship we have and there are few if any areas where we benefit. Meanwhile the EU is happy to have a girlfriend on the side who gets all the benefits but doesn't have to put up with the abuse.
The fact that very rarely we might get a bunch of flowers does not excuse the general bad behaviour we have to suffer.
You really think the Belgians, Greeks and Bulgarians get drunk in the snug at the Rose and Eurocrat, then come home and give Britain a kicking in the ovaries, then laugh as we try to call to help from America, then stamp on our feeble hands with their weird Dutch clogs, making us drop the phone. You think that's what happens.
OK.
The only thing I would add is that they are buying the drinks at the pub with money they stole from our purse on the way out.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
There is precedent for exhuming the body ...
Oliver Cromwell or Jimmy Savile?
The Yewtree squad certainly had a go at pinning something on Heath.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
And I think you are wrong. The battered wife meme perfectly describes the relationship we have and there are few if any areas where we benefit. Meanwhile the EU is happy to have a girlfriend on the side who gets all the benefits but doesn't have to put up with the abuse.
The fact that very rarely we might get a bunch of flowers does not excuse the general bad behaviour we have to suffer.
I agree with Sean about this. The idea that we have been bending over and taking it for the last 43 years is ignominious and doesn't fit with the way I see my country.
It may not be the way you want to see your country but then no one likes to think of themselves as having been taken for a ride in that way. Doesn't change the basic truth though.
We kill billions of creatures every day to feed the current world population..a large number of whom are undernourished and some are actually starving..we do not need an expansion of the population.. it will soon be impossible to feed everyone..we will run out of creatures to kill.
There is a simple solution to that, eat less meat. The world has been self sufficient on a majoritarily vegetarian diet for decades.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Froducing one really great reform? A single European language.
Richard Nabavi is right
*checks pulse, then rest of self*
Since we joined, English has become, perforce, the dominant language of the European Union. This irritates the French VERY VERY DEEPLY.
As I understand it the number of living European languages is set to diminish much more quickly than one would think. I think I've read scholarly predictions that all but the biggest will be gone in a hundred years.
Absolutely. You can see it happening, especially with young Nordics - Swedes, Danes, Icelanders. They lapse into English - even when talking with each other. Their speech is regularly peppered with English phrases. They grow up absolutely bilingual. A faint embarrassment attaches to use of their native languages.
This is a recipe for extinction. It will happen. It is also, by the by, one of the causes of racial friction in Scandinavia. The migrants come and learn English (or they speak it already), they don't bother learning Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, etc. Why would you?
Thus the migrants accelerate the demise of the local culture and language, in a way we cannot imagine.
I found the same when in Bucharest last year. Everyone under 30 speaks good English, they rightly see the EU freedom of movement as their great opportunity to move up in the world and see English as the best means to that end. Those that integrate and intermarry will see their native language die off within only two or three generations.
Yep! I'm balls-deep laying Boris and have a substantial lay on Osborne.
I think the next leader will be from the Cabinet but not one of the two favourites. Boris just isn't a serious politician, too many skeletons and the membership won't vote for him. Osborne's fortune is now tied up with Cameron's, if DC is forced out after the referendum then GO won't replace him.
I really like these long term markets.
My first betfair bet on next Tory leader says "Matched: 20:35 30-Jul-11" which was laying Rory Stewart at 9-1 (bf 10) in £3.
I rather hope my counterparty wins. Admittedly a little less so than I hope Rees-Mogg rises to the fore.
I went for Boris the day after the election last year, when he was roughly evens for next Tory leader and next PM. IMO both markets over-reacted, and I went in with a fair amount of what I'd just won, close to four figures across the two markets.
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
There's realistically only five runners - Osborne, May, Hammond, Javid, Gove - who comes to the front will depend to no small extent on what happens with the referendum. As we saw with Labour and with IDS there's always a chance that someone comes through from nowhere, as Cameron himself did in 2005 - but with the winner taking office as PM it will need to be someone with extensive ministerial experience who can unite the party.
I've now talked myself into backing May, 9/1 with Bet365. In fact, Javid at 10/1, Gove at 16s and Hammond at 25s are probably all value IMHO.
You can get Hammond at 60 on the Betfair PM after Cameron market. Of course, there are reasons to suppose it won't be him, but still he is Foreign Secretary ffs.
Re Gove, he would be a huge fuck-you to the public. The party might be in that kind of mood though.
It's that kind of mood that turfs parties out of power. Given that it would usher in Corbyn then you have to have an extremely low opinion of Tory members to expect them to ignore the (then) 15 years of hard work. Finally though you have to consider who the CPP will finally choose to be on the run off. At least Montgomerie will not have a vote which is a small hedge towards sanity. I must admit I am almost (almost) tempted to apply to replace him.
'The case for Europe today is stronger than its ever been: in the modern world, countries on the continent have power with the collective weight of the EU. But it does require a change in the direction. There are areas such as security, tackling illegal immigration and energy, where it should integrate its policies more effectively. In other areas the diversity of nation states is something to be celebrated. It’s also important that Europe focusses on what its big goals are; it’s better to ask what we want to achieve, than get locked in to endless institutional debates. For example, today we want to achieve growth, reduce unemployment and increase innovation. This is why rather than debate its own relationship with Europe, I want Britain as a leader in Europe and to play its part in moving all of us on the continent forward.' https://www.facebook.com/TonyBlair/?fref=ts
We kill billions of creatures every day to feed the current world population..a large number of whom are undernourished and some are actually starving..we do not need an expansion of the population.. it will soon be impossible to feed everyone..we will run out of creatures to kill.
There is a simple solution to that, eat less meat. The world has been self sufficient on a majoritarily vegetarian diet for decades.
well that should close down most of scottish agriculture
'The case for Europe today is stronger than its ever been: in the modern world, countries on the continent have power with the collective weight of the EU. But it does require a change in the direction. There are areas such as security, tackling illegal immigration and energy, where it should integrate its policies more effectively. In other areas the diversity of nation states is something to be celebrated. It’s also important that Europe focusses on what its big goals are; it’s better to ask what we want to achieve, than get locked in to endless institutional debates. For example, today we want to achieve growth, reduce unemployment and increase innovation. This is why rather than debate its own relationship with Europe, I want Britain as a leader in Europe and to play its part in moving all of us on the continent forward.' https://www.facebook.com/TonyBlair/?fref=ts
These people are fucking idiots. Blair went out of his way to become a leader in the EU and failed miserably.
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
Rofl. And they wonder why they're called nutjobs.
Sean Fear heads a firm of family solicitors, and is a well respected campaigner and poster.
I am a programme manager for Crossrail, and attend its strategy and leadership meetings, and am known in the Major Projects Authority and well respected in my industry as a successful programme advisor and consultant.
If only there was a betting market on which side he will back... If he backs Remain he is a lay for next leader.
Boris has always been a lay for next leader. If he comes out for Leave his price will come in and make him a better value lay.
Do you see George as a lay also?
Yep! I'm balls-deep laying Boris and have a substantial lay on Osborne.
I think the next leader will be from the Cabinet but not one of the two favourites. Boris just isn't a serious politician, too many skeletons and the membership won't vote for him. Osborne's fortune is now tied up with Cameron's, if DC is forced out after the referendum then GO won't replace him.
I really like these long term markets.
My first betfair bet on next Tory leader says "Matched: 20:35 30-Jul-11" which was laying Rory Stewart at 9-1 (bf 10) in £3.
I rather hope my counterparty wins. Admittedly a little less so than I hope Rees-Mogg rises to the fore.
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
If that's your tack, look at the "undecideds": Fallon, Greening and Truss. They have not declared or made obvious their allegiance to either side.
I have small bets on Johnson (just in case he ends up against Osborne) but am a heavy layer of Osborne.
I have good bets on Gove, but he might not stand. May is a busted flush. Hammond has missed his chance, and is too boring, and Javid is still possible.
The Tory women are the ones who genuinely excite me, though.
(not in that way; well, ok, a little bit in that way)
Yes, my betting nightmare is the PCP give us George and Boris to choose from. That will cost a fortune to get out of, and I don't know which one of them would get my vote either.
Gove has previously said he didn't want to be PM, but he's worth beer money at 16/1, ditto the others at longer odds. Any of the ladies would be great, if only to see the look in Hattie Harperson's face when staring across the dispatch box at a SECOND female Tory PM.
Absolutely. You can see it happening, especially with young Nordics - Swedes, Danes, Icelanders. They lapse into English - even when talking with each other. Their speech is regularly peppered with English phrases. They grow up absolutely bilingual. A faint embarrassment attaches to use of their native languages.
This is a recipe for extinction. It will happen. It is also, by the by, one of the causes of racial friction in Scandinavia. The migrants come and learn English (or they speak it already), they don't bother learning Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, etc. Why would you?
Thus the migrants accelerate the demise of the local culture and language, in a way we cannot imagine.
But throughout that trend, at least the locals can cling to their language as a vehicle for preserving their culture, and as a way of identifying outsiders who have made the effort to integrate.
By its very internationalism, the English language has lost its value as the centrepiece of our culture. We're reduced to being mere fodder for patronising articles about quaint Britishisms like 'gutted' and 'chuffed', of which there's a good example in the current Vogue. I'm sure this phenomenon plays a part in the loss of national identity felt by many.
Yep! I'm balls-deep laying Boris and have a substantial lay on Osborne.
I think the next leader will be from the Cabinet but not one of the two favourites. Boris just isn't a serious politician, too many skeletons and the membership won't vote for him. Osborne's fortune is now tied up with Cameron's, if DC is forced out after the referendum then GO won't replace him.
I really like these long term markets.
My first betfair bet on next Tory leader says "Matched: 20:35 30-Jul-11" which was laying Rory Stewart at 9-1 (bf 10) in £3.
I rather hope my counterparty wins. Admittedly a little less so than I hope Rees-Mogg rises to the fore.
I went for Boris the day after the election last year, when he was roughly evens for next Tory leader and next PM. IMO both markets over-reacted, and I went in with a fair amount of what I'd just won, close to four figures across the two markets.
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
There's realistically only five runners - Osborne, May, Hammond, Javid, Gove - who comes to the front will depend to no small extent on what happens with the referendum. As we saw with Labour and with IDS there's always a chance that someone comes through from nowhere, as Cameron himself did in 2005 - but with the winner taking office as PM it will need to be someone with extensive ministerial experience who can unite the party.
I've now talked myself into backing May, 9/1 with Bet365. In fact, Javid at 10/1, Gove at 16s and Hammond at 25s are probably all value IMHO.
You can get Hammond at 60 on the Betfair PM after Cameron market. Of course, there are reasons to suppose it won't be him, but still he is Foreign Secretary ffs.
Re Gove, he would be a huge fuck-you to the public. The party might be in that kind of mood though.
So there are odds on Hammond and May; why no odds on Clarkson?
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Moreover, the European Feds have been quite open and honest with us. They want a real European state - with ever closer union, which is in the Treaty of Rome. They are therefore mystified as to why we complain when ever closer union happens.
The people who should be the targets of our anger are UK politicians who have lied about Europe, from Edward Heath onwards, despite knowing full well that we were engaged in deep political integration. And I include David Cameron with his farcical "deal" in this roll call of shame and lies.
These people are the bastards who need a slap. I despise them.
I'm on my 4th G&T now.
Edward Heath only had to win once. And he did.
He's probably the most disastrous Prime Minister this country has ever had.
Despicable man.
He should have been tried for treason.
Rofl. And they wonder why they're called nutjobs.
Sean Fear heads a firm of family solicitors, and is a well respected campaigner and poster.
I am a programme manager for Crossrail, and attend its strategy and leadership meetings, and am known in the Major Projects Authority and well respected in my industry as a successful programme advisor and consultant.
What do you do?
He's a bitter, retired old fart, whingeing about his pension on the Costa Geriatrica. That's what he *does*.
I'd love to see Tory ladies like Penny Mordaunt and Priti Patel right at the top.
NB: the betting implication here is for future Tory leader, obviously. Interestingly, a cabinet promotion seems to be on the cards in the Summer for her.
Could she be the "authorised" Leave leader, rather than Gove or Javid?
Remarkably, I just heard maybe the best argument for REMAIN from Belgo-Federalist, Guy Verhofstadt, on C4 News.
Which was?
Just a straightforward, but fairly passionate assertion of how the UK would be much weaker without the EU, and - significantly - the EU would be crippled without the UK. It was probably more persuasive that it came from a Federalist, who has been quite Anglophobic in the past.
REMAIN would do well to use Europeans like this. Everyone likes a bit of flattery. Let the Federalists come and grovel to us, and beg us to stay, with tears in their eyes.
Isn't this like the husband begging the wife not to leave after years of treating her like shit?
I think this meme that Britain is a battered wife in Europe is fairly ridiculous, and borderline offensive. We get an OK deal, some good, some bad. Of course it is very arguable we'd get a better deal as an independent nation - I can be persuaded of that - but I do not believe we are being regularly "abused" by the EU. It's arrant nonsense.
Fair point. I may have overegged the pudding a tad. It just seems to me that we get the rough end of it. We gold plate EU rules and other countries ignore when it suits. c.f when our beef was declared safe after the BSE business in the 90's. Blair offering up half our rebate for reform of the CAP and nothing happens etc. If the EU really want us to stay, how about introducing one really great reform? A single European language.
Richard Nabavi is right
*checks pulse, then rest of self*
Since we joined, English has become, perforce, the dominant language of the European Union. This irritates the French VERY VERY DEEPLY.
As I understand it the number of living European languages is set to diminish much more quickly than one would think. I think I've read scholarly predictions that all but the biggest will be gone in a hundred years.
True. And based on the appearances of actors presenters football managers and weather girls on BBC they will all be speaking Jockenese.
Absolutely. You can see it happening, especially with young Nordics - Swedes, Danes, Icelanders. They lapse into English - even when talking with each other. Their speech is regularly peppered with English phrases. They grow up absolutely bilingual. A faint embarrassment attaches to use of their native languages.
This is a recipe for extinction. It will happen. It is also, by the by, one of the causes of racial friction in Scandinavia. The migrants come and learn English (or they speak it already), they don't bother learning Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, etc. Why would you?
Thus the migrants accelerate the demise of the local culture and language, in a way we cannot imagine.
But throughout that trend, at least the locals can cling to their language as a vehicle for preserving their culture, and as a way of identifying outsiders who have made the effort to integrate.
By its very internationalism, the English language has lost its value as the centrepiece of our culture. We're reduced to being mere fodder for patronising articles about quaint Britishisms like 'gutted' and 'chuffed', of which there's a good example in the current Vogue. I'm sure this phenomenon plays a part in the loss of national identity felt by many.
Cenedl heb iaith cenedl heb galon A nation without a language (is) a nation without a heart, as the saying goes here.
'The case for Europe today is stronger than its ever been: in the modern world, countries on the continent have power with the collective weight of the EU. But it does require a change in the direction. There are areas such as security, tackling illegal immigration and energy, where it should integrate its policies more effectively. In other areas the diversity of nation states is something to be celebrated. It’s also important that Europe focusses on what its big goals are; it’s better to ask what we want to achieve, than get locked in to endless institutional debates. For example, today we want to achieve growth, reduce unemployment and increase innovation. This is why rather than debate its own relationship with Europe, I want Britain as a leader in Europe and to play its part in moving all of us on the continent forward.' https://www.facebook.com/TonyBlair/?fref=ts
These people are fucking idiots. Blair went out of his way to become a leader in the EU and failed miserably.
Blair has always been a Europhile though, so not surprising
'The case for Europe today is stronger than its ever been: in the modern world, countries on the continent have power with the collective weight of the EU. But it does require a change in the direction. There are areas such as security, tackling illegal immigration and energy, where it should integrate its policies more effectively. In other areas the diversity of nation states is something to be celebrated. It’s also important that Europe focusses on what its big goals are; it’s better to ask what we want to achieve, than get locked in to endless institutional debates. For example, today we want to achieve growth, reduce unemployment and increase innovation. This is why rather than debate its own relationship with Europe, I want Britain as a leader in Europe and to play its part in moving all of us on the continent forward.' https://www.facebook.com/TonyBlair/?fref=ts
Blair has absolutely no self-awareness, does he? No sense that even his few, lingering admirers find him a bit embarrassing. And that the rest of us, left and right, have no desire to hear his opinions, and would be content if he just went away now, and looked after his money.
And that 90% of his party would like him to disappear into a black hole.
It's rather tragic. So much promise. Now this.
The left hate Blair and the right hate Blair but a lot of centrist swing voters in the middle, not particularly political voted for him and still like him now. Many of those same voters will be undecided on EU ref at the moment, not particularly great fans of the EU but not diehard antis either, if he is to have a role it will be appealing to them
'The case for Europe today is stronger than its ever been: in the modern world, countries on the continent have power with the collective weight of the EU. But it does require a change in the direction. There are areas such as security, tackling illegal immigration and energy, where it should integrate its policies more effectively. In other areas the diversity of nation states is something to be celebrated. It’s also important that Europe focusses on what its big goals are; it’s better to ask what we want to achieve, than get locked in to endless institutional debates. For example, today we want to achieve growth, reduce unemployment and increase innovation. This is why rather than debate its own relationship with Europe, I want Britain as a leader in Europe and to play its part in moving all of us on the continent forward.' https://www.facebook.com/TonyBlair/?fref=ts
Blair has absolutely no self-awareness, does he? No sense that even his few, lingering admirers find him a bit embarrassing. And that the rest of us, left and right, have no desire to hear his opinions, and would be content if he just went away now, and looked after his money.
And that 90% of his party would like him to disappear into a black hole.
It's rather tragic. So much promise. Now this.
Many of our problems with the EU today stem from the Lisbon Treaty, put through by Blair's Party under Brown. He and Brown cost us our veto, part of our Rebate and complete failure to insist on the promised reform of CAP.
Thanks Charles, I value your opinion on this. Did you hear Laura Sandys on LBC circa 530pm today? She made a big play about how well the EC was doing in opening the services market and that it would lead to a massive growth of business for UK companies especially in financial services.
I didn't - was in Amsterdam with a friend. But I am very sceptical - it hasn't happened so far in terms of opening the market on a level basis (I compete against the likes of Credit Agricole and Rabobank and they all have a regulatory edge in their domestic markets).
The UK financial services industry is second to none. Given a fair market we could slaughter the incumbents, especially the Caisse, the Sparkassen, the Landesbanken, the Cantonal banks etc. But it's not a fair market. So we have to kill them one at a time
Comments
For big creatures though we're far more of a threat. The average unicellular creature may have a few percentages more risk in our presence than otherwise.
The true multi-cellular monsters of the planet are massively imperiled by us. Fruit flies for example. However only a tiny minority of fruit flydom has ever seen a human being, when they do though they raise their chances of early demise significantly. If that human being is wearing a white coat then they may as well tidy up their affairs and write their wills.
The bigger you get, the worse it is.
Just in from home and confronted by the theatricality of David Cameron "battling for Britain" (and any other cliche you want to roll out). After the nonsense PPB earlier in the week with the Union Jack placed behind Cameron's shoulder, we now have this pathetic excuse of a Prime Minister somehow claiming to be the embodiment of patriotism.
The inference if you don't support Cameron you are unpatriotic is about as subtle as a gag from Bottom and the much-missed Rik Mayall.
He has completely personalised it now as well - it's just him, not Osborne, Johnson or Hammond or anyone else, just Cameron, good old "you can trust me Dave" who will bring home the bacon, a deal for the ages, a deal all clean-living sensible patriotic British people have a duty to support.
Pass me the sick bag...
Actually picking the next leader is the trickier task of course, I'll be watching to see who in the cabinet is hedging their bets by keeping quiet for a bit in the wake of the referendum announcement tomorrow - if it happens tomorrow. The next leader will need to be a uniting figure rather than someone who was at the forefront of either campaign.
There's realistically only five runners - Osborne, May, Hammond, Javid, Gove - who comes to the front will depend to no small extent on what happens with the referendum. As we saw with Labour and with IDS there's always a chance that someone comes through from nowhere, as Cameron himself did in 2005 - but with the winner taking office as PM it will need to be someone with extensive ministerial experience who can unite the party.
I've now talked myself into backing May, 9/1 with Bet365. In fact, Javid at 10/1, Gove at 16s and Hammond at 25s are probably all value IMHO.
It's fantastic to hear someone make the liberal case for an independent Britain, and I welcome any campaign ideas you have to maximise our chances of success.
Then the fun begins...
Thought you'd gone a bit gaylord ponceyboots there, for a second.
Re Gove, he would be a huge fuck-you to the public. The party might be in that kind of mood though.
I have small bets on Johnson (just in case he ends up against Osborne) but am a heavy layer of Osborne.
I have good bets on Gove, but he might not stand. May is a busted flush. Hammond has missed his chance, and is too boring, and Javid is still possible.
The Tory women are the ones who genuinely excite me, though.
(not in that way; well, ok, a little bit in that way)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kae-nng77yE
I am a programme manager for Crossrail, and attend its strategy and leadership meetings, and am known in the Major Projects Authority and well respected in my industry as a successful programme advisor and consultant.
What do you do?
Shadsy has odds for Liz Kendall as next Tory Leader (100/1, since you ask) but still not odds for Penny Mordaunt.
Come on, Shadsy!
The Yewtree squad certainly had a go at pinning something on Heath.
Finally though you have to consider who the CPP will finally choose to be on the run off. At least Montgomerie will not have a vote which is a small hedge towards sanity. I must admit I am almost (almost) tempted to apply to replace him.
It’s also important that Europe focusses on what its big goals are; it’s better to ask what we want to achieve, than get locked in to endless institutional debates. For example, today we want to achieve growth, reduce unemployment and increase innovation. This is why rather than debate its own relationship with Europe, I want Britain as a leader in Europe and to play its part in moving all of us on the continent forward.'
https://www.facebook.com/TonyBlair/?fref=ts
Gove has previously said he didn't want to be PM, but he's worth beer money at 16/1, ditto the others at longer odds. Any of the ladies would be great, if only to see the look in Hattie Harperson's face when staring across the dispatch box at a SECOND female Tory PM.
By its very internationalism, the English language has lost its value as the centrepiece of our culture. We're reduced to being mere fodder for patronising articles about quaint Britishisms like 'gutted' and 'chuffed', of which there's a good example in the current Vogue. I'm sure this phenomenon plays a part in the loss of national identity felt by many.
Oh dear - I've achieved the hall of fame at last.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12160196/Priti-Patel-tells-Tory-MPs-she-plans-on-playing-a-leading-role-in-Brexit-campaign.html
I'd love to see Tory ladies like Penny Mordaunt and Priti Patel right at the top.
NB: the betting implication here is for future Tory leader, obviously. Interestingly, a cabinet promotion seems to be on the cards in the Summer for her.
Could she be the "authorised" Leave leader, rather than Gove or Javid?
Don't know..
New Thread New Thread
The UK financial services industry is second to none. Given a fair market we could slaughter the incumbents, especially the Caisse, the Sparkassen, the Landesbanken, the Cantonal banks etc. But it's not a fair market. So we have to kill them one at a time